Sailor Bob Nonduality - you are that nature 1 Sept 2019

Okay, welcome everyone. We start the meeting from St. Gallen, Nijmegen. I'm Katarina. Michelle. Felicity. Zellan. Dave. Michael. Hema. Adrian. Ben. Terry. As usual, so mold, so mold, so mold. Can't be any other way. What they call non-duality. Non-duality means not two, one without a second, they try to describe it. Even the idea of one implies there could be other. So if you understand that and fully grasp that, you realise there's no seeker, nothing to seek, no doer, nothing to do, no occurrences, nothing to occur, but it all seemingly happens and it continues to seemingly happen. But it's all as they say, mire, illusion, appearance. And you see this, or recognise this, when you dream of a night.

When you dream of a night, you can all sorts of things that can be going on in that dream. You can be anywhere at all in that dream, wherever it is. Doing all sorts of activities and things like that. When you wake up, what happened to it all? Where did it all go? It disappeared. Now there's a, the thing is, but this pattern through which the dream experienced or expressed through, seemingly still appears to be there. And that's why we don't recognise that this is the waking dream also. And this so-called dreaming character doesn't disappear. But the dream character in this dream is an expression of a dream.

No, again, I don't think that there's a time for論. Also, you and I are seemingly more substantial, more solid. And we have the capacity, or ability to reason... But all these forms and images that appeared in the dream at night are like ... If you take this away and take, the whole dream, it's all appearing into space like... JAY Micke says about dream and darkness. This is just a smaller version of it. This human pattern, shapes and forms. So that's what's pointed to, that we are the one essence appearing, patterning, shaping, forming, expressing and experiencing as everything. But see what's happened there. Maybe we should start later.

It's always happening. Yeah, then they come later even again, then. Might need a chair or two. Janet. What did you hear about this? I've heard from a few people. Trish Rossi, Trish Rossi and yesterday Mick. The dream character, weren't we? Or something like that, I forget now. That dream character in the dream, the dream doesn't go, or if it expects anything, it doesn't expect it as it comes, doesn't it? Because you don't know which way that dream's going to go down. You're going to be fearful and terrified and anxious and angry and all sorts of things in the dream. Just the same as this one.

But the thing is we've taken on that idea, and this is what the dream character does, is taken on the idea that we are a separate entity, an individual, a person. And we see the sense of separation is all around us. Look out there in nature. There's trees, the flowers, the sky, the space, the stars, the planets. And everything in this room is appearingly separate. They express it in the ancient text as one essence appearing, patterning, shaping, forming and expressing as everything. And then they put the Mahavacca or the great mantra on that. I am that, meaning that thou art that. Everything is that. Which innately you already sense in your language.

They don't realise what you're saying half the time because they say that's the chair, that's the carpet, that's the tree, that's the flower. We know everything is that. We're all different. We've got the chair, the carpet, the tree and the flower. It's taken to be something separate, and we believe it is separate. But it's not saying that the essence of it is that, and that alone. So you see why the search becomes the problem. So we've got this search on. We've split it up for a start off into many dualistic aspects. And the main one is spirit and matter. Spirit as essence and matter as solidified spirit.

Taking them to be two separate things. But it's all in one. It can't be anything other than one. No, it appears in all its diverse shapes and forms and patterns. But no matter how it appears, it's still only that. And that is all there is. And that is all there will ever be. Or whatever was. Only that. And that's what we need to investigate. Because while we think we are this individual, this person, what are we doing? We've got the taste of this something, a little bit more to life than what we're experiencing and expressing. And there's been scriptures and traditions written about it. And we get a taste and a bit of a resonation with some of that.

And we think we've got to become more advanced. Not realizing that becoming, being, can never be. Never be. Never ever be becoming. And is there anyone who is not being right now? You've got to realize simply, factually, that I am being. I can't negate that beingness. And that's all that the Hindus call it. Sat-Shitananda. Nama-Rupa. The five factors. Sat is existence. Shita is consciousness. And Nanda is loving to be. And the Nama-Rupa, the name and the form are Maya. They're illusion. They tell us that. Just the same as all this manifestation is Maya or illusion. And I'll tell you, it's a phenomenal manifestation. What's your dictionary definition of phenomena?

It's that which appears to be. Simply all that. And you and I and everybody else are the content, the phenomenal content of this manifestation. The same as the trees, the flowers and everything else is the content. And can you separate anything from the totality? Through the capacity of reasoning, through this mind stuff, we think, which is a vibration of energy which is always dividing everything. Look at the way your thinking happens. You're not thinking in the past, which is memory, or in the future, which is anticipation and imagination. Well, it's always vibrating somewhere within that range. Look at the way thoughts pattern, shape and form.

It's either good or bad, pleasant, painful, happy, sad, loving, hating, positive, negativity. Watch your mind and see if it functions any other way. Have a look at it and investigate. Get the taste of how this functioning is happening. It's always vibrating in the interrelated opposites. And the bounds we're putting on that opposites are word, or the label. Good, bad. Pleasant and painful. They're words. I like it, I don't like it. It's fearful or it's joyful. And that's the sense of separation that we're continually reinforcing by going into these erroneous, mentally constructed beliefs. That's all a concept is, is a mental construct. And time is brought into it, past, present and future.

And with time comes beginning, and end. And don't the ancients tell us, or the scriptures tell us, it's eternal. And what is eternity? Eternity is not bound by any concept of time. It's beginningless, it's endless. It's timeless, it's spaceless. It's spiraling, it's mindless. It's beyond all the whens, wheres, hows, whys and what fors. In other words, it just is, which is a word which we use to try and describe it. And what is means unaltered, unmodified, uncorrected. Just as it is in this ever-present freshness and newness. If it's timeless, it must be ever-fresh, which the Buddhists pointed out that way. They say it's ever-fresh, non-conceptual, without any concepts on it.

Ever-fresh. Presence awareness. Anyone who's not aware right now, you're not unaware, so you must be aware. Who is not, anyone is not present right now. Your past or your future. Or the actuality, what it is right now. Are you this presence? Presence awareness. That is describing you right now. Just this, nothing else. So you see, in that description points out you are that. In the Satchitananda points out you are that. Anyone who's not existing right now, anyone who's not conscious right now, anyone who's not happy to be right now. But we say, this is not good enough. Because we believe we are this persona, this individual, this separate entity, we've got to become something.

And where, how, why or what can you become? Outside of the mind. Without that mind you can't go anywhere. Still this ever-freshness. Ever-presence. And without the mind, what concept do you have without the mind? It's non-conceptual. So it's still non-conceptual whether the concepts are going on or not, if you understand what we're pointing to. It's always been the one, always will be the one. And I point that out by saying it's not a one-edged stick, each stick's got two ends to it. The thin end we don't like, the more mightn't like, and the thick end we want more of, it's good. We can use other metaphors to point it out like that.

But whichever end is that, the good end or the thick end or the thin end, it's still only the one stick. So no matter what's going on in this mind, in these activities, which are always vibrating in the interrelated opposites, it's still the one essence. And this Nisargadatta points out, you are dreaming a dream, he calls it, you're dreaming a dream, you call the world. And he says stop looking for ways out, we're trying to get out of this dream. He says because the dream's not your concern. Your concern is when you take delivery of it and love one part of it and not the other.

You've separated, divided it, and tried to fix it from one end and get to the other end which doesn't happen. He says either love all of it right now or none of it. Don't take its dance anywhere in it at all, it doesn't matter whether you're loving all of it or you've pushed it all out loving none of it. And he says the rest will be taken care of for you by the same life essence that brought you into existence, that is living you, breathing you, and beating your heart right now. It's growing you, don't you realise it's growing you? Two microscopical particles called a sperm and an ovum in your father and your mother suffused with the innate intelligence which doubled, redoubled, and continued to double and formed the little embryo and formed the little fetus.

And it's what you are to this day, it's still growing you. And what have you done about that growing? You've done all sorts of things about thinking we're going to improve it or may try and, living and believing it, but actually all we're doing has happened, has happened spontaneously also. But you see what's put us in bondage? What's the boundaries we've put upon us? What's made it fearful? What's made it unhappy? What's made it depressed? Or good or bad? Isn't it the concepts? Or the words? It tells you in the Bible in the beginning it was the word. The word was with God, the word was God.

That's all that God was, it was another word. All things were made by him, by the word. And that's right, everything you label out there is by the word, isn't it? There was nothing that was made that was made without the word. And that's what's dwelling amongst us right now, the word, the vibration. Now the word is not the enemy. It can be very useful. Because if you didn't use words and concepts and images you couldn't have built this house and made the plans and all the rest and all the other inventions and all the things we've gone along in life and done, it would have been useful.

But it's also, because it's a vibration, it's self-destructive. It's the word that tells me I'm fearful or I'm anxious or I'm unhappy, I'm not good enough, I can't do this and can't do that and now people are out to get me, I'm introverted. And the worst, we put to ourselves, well, when things are happening we can't do anything about it, well after all I'm only human. And have a look at that, we call ourselves human beings. And if you believe in the God you call the God the Supreme Being. What happens if you take the label Supreme off and take the label human off? What's left?

You can't negate the beingness but you can negate the label. So, you can't negate that beingness without that word human or supreme the beingness is not separate. It's just pure being. And have a look at this and see when you take the label off everything in this room, what's left? There is just beingness in this room. The space is being. It's being space. The air is being. You can't see it. The worlds are being. The people in it are being. Everything is being. And being is something that's occurring right in this immediacy. And it's spontaneous. It's not time bound. It hasn't got any beginning. Being doesn't begin.

And it doesn't end. Being is eternal. And awareness of that beingness recognising the awareness of it is the love of being. It's the joyousness. They call it bliss in other words. A sense of wellness. A sense of beingness. A sense of happiness. A joyousness. And then the Mahavaka, the great mantra comes into play. I am that. I am that essence. I'm not this person which comes from prasarana, the mask, a work we've learnt that's been modified over the ages from the persona, the mask, into the believed in separate entity, the individual, the person. And we've taken ourselves to be this person. Which means the mask.

We put this mask. What's the mask we've got on ourselves? It's the mask of concepts. I'm Bob, the Australian, the good fella, I'm not so good. People don't like me. I'm full of shit. Or whatever. And whatever belief I've got about myself is just a conception. A conceptual image. That forms the person. The person's persona is formed of concepts. Mental images. And the Sargadatta tells you also that nothing can trouble you. Nothing at all can trouble you. But your own imagination. Break that word imagination. We've broken ourselves. We were troubled by the word imagination. Break that word to image in. Or imagine. And that's the way to imagine.

That's the way to imagine. Image in means we're creating mental images. Focusing on the images. Taking them to be real. And on board with something solid and substantial. Look at that mirror at the end of the room. What do you see in it? Don't you see reflections in it? Or, another term to put those reflections, images. Images in the mirror. Now you can't say those images are not there. But go up to the mirror. Go to that mirror and try and grab an image out of it. What will you grab? You'll only grab the glass. You won't grab the image. So it's not there. There's nothing in the mirror at all.

But it appears to be. It's a phenomenal image in the mirror. And that's the same with this. When you try to grab this persona that you think you are. Can you? Oh, it's in here, it's up there, it's out there, somewhere else. It's seemingly solid and substantial. When you really look into it, what can you grab? Nothing in there is solid or substantial that you can fixate on. This is what we call the bondage of self. And what does bondage mean? It means we're tied up in it. Which we are. We've tied ourselves up with the concepts, the ideas, the images and the words. I'm bald.

I'm unhappy or I'm depressed. My parents told me I'm a good or I'm bad or I'm fearful. People don't like me. All imagined. All made up of concepts, words. What happens if I ask myself what is wrong with right now if I don't think about it? To do that you need to pause a thought for a moment or step back from the mind or disregard it or don't cling to it different ways. Not anything that the persona can do. It's just a matter of letting go or relaxing, whatever. What can you say without a thought? Well look at that right now and ask yourself, what can I say without a thought?

What are you going to do? You've got to try and look without conceptualising or making any words. What's there then? Isn't there just a naked seeing? A naked hearing? A naked tasting, touching, smelling and thinking might come up in it? And things like that. Feelings and all the rest of it. But it's non-conceptual. There's nothing there. But the seeing the hearing, the tasting the touching, the smelling, the breathing the heart beating there's all functioning still going on. But it's just pure functioning. Just pure being until we put the concepts on. That's separated. And non-duality again as I start off with is non-conceptual ever fresh presence awareness or totality.

It's omnipresence. Total presence. Omnipotence, total power. Not the mind power, not the thought power not the higher power, not the God power or the intellectual power. It's the total power. Total power or intelligence, energy or whatever you like to call it that's functioning. This cosmos. All naturally, effortlessly and constantly, eternally. All taken on the concepts when we separate it into these individuals. It comes about when we learnt the word and you didn't learn any words look at that. You don't realise what words were you born with. Or can you remember your birth? You go into that you investigate that you see you can't remember your birth.

You were told you can't do it. It's just in such and such a date but you actually you don't remember anything. When was your first memories? Aren't they somewhere around the age of two or two and a half might be a bit before or a bit later when you began to learn words your parents fussing around you told you you're a little boy you're a little girl, good so and so and they're talking amongst themselves and you learn words like I or me the capacity of reasoning developed in you at that stage. Before that there's no reasoning you're just seeing, hearing you're just pure total functioning.

The capacity of reasoning which is a very useful capacity this room was an idea in somebody's mind once the television, the computer through the capacity of reasoning have all been developed all come about through that capacity of reasoning. The little child for the first couple of years of your life what reasoning is happening there? He's seeing, hearing tasting, touching, smelling hungry or crying, happy or half reach out in curiosity and try to grab something or touch something but he hasn't got any labels or words to differentiate it he certainly learns the hard way he puts something on something, something hot or it'll burn and something do that but with this capacity of reasoning he learnt words.

Now realise that that's when you and I and everybody else first started acquiring words and you must realise if I acquired words then every word I've ever acquired or picked up or learnt has been picked up along the way if I'm not going with it there's not something that's natural to me there's something that's acquired and I'm still learning words to this day there's a dictionary there full of words that I haven't don't understand or what they mean some of the words I'm saying here I don't fully understand or nothing I'm not the best educated person in the world it doesn't matter but you've got to understand we've picked up all these words along the way and understand these words we use are not the thing a word is not the thing like they say the map is not the territory you've got a signpost saying Bourke Road and Whitehorse Road you're not at Bourke Road and Whitehorse Road but there's a good pointer all words are good pointers in the direction you need to look and investigate a word's not the thing take the word water can you wash in the word can you swim in the word can you drink in the word can you drown in the word you can't, you can't do anything with the word at all the word fire does it burn your mouth if you speak in it is it hot the word fire can you cook with it can you heat yourself can you warm yourself with it you can't not with the word what's this word I or me I'm Bob the Australian dollar wrestler all words are labels we put on it are you that are you any of those words you put upon yourself oh I'm introverted oh I'm unhappy I'm depressed are you while the energy of belief goes into it and you put the sensations into it from that energy of belief that's the fresh and new ever fresh and new we're putting the label or the old label on it and attaching to it and causing the pain the hurt and all the anxiety and stress that goes on something that's not the actuality the word's not the actuality and we learn words and that's I learned words like I and me I and Bob the Australian and those words conceptual image that those words form that's what I take myself to be a conceptual image and that becomes the reference point now I relate everything to this mental image to me Bob whether I like it or don't like it is it good if I hurt it is it affecting me in any way the reference point in other words the reference point is the self centre we've formed a conceptual centre or an image in this pattern somewhere that we relate to or has been put in the last few hundred years ego reference point self centre and ego and everybody's on about this ego it is the big problem ego a reference point everything comes relative to this ego and relativity or relationship is duality to be related there must be something other than this is relativity, duality and what are we talking about?

duality we're pointing out there is absolutely no duality in non-duality that's what the ancients tell us it's written in the scriptures and a few who have understood it and recognised it and great religions have formed around them and they've added all these sets of rules and regulations and seeing them in their purity they've added all sorts of things onto them and give you some big problem you've got to pray, you've got to meditate you've got to do all this to acquire or get somewhere because the saints sages and seers have pointed it out in this truthfulness but the people that follow them set themselves up as saints, sages, saviours and seers and say you've got to become like me or better than me or whatever all these trips on them and nobody ever recognises or gets to it until something moves them to look a little bit further and the erroneous beliefs they've taken on board and continually reinforce and that's what we've happened instead of seeing what the saints, sages and seers told us and listening to the message we've set the messenger up and worshipped the messenger as a saint, as a saviour as a sage, as a seer and the message is lot's of so take hold of the message right here right now already and ever fresh it's not something that's taken on later on because there is no later on this is the only time you can ever take it right now, you are that you are that I am existing I am conscious right now I am not unaware so I must be aware right now I am not this pattern, shape and form I believe it I am the essence that enabled that pattern, shape and form to formulate and put all the organs nerves and sinews into it to enable it to experience and express the way it does in it, so it can do that but this pattern, shape and form like everything else in this manifestation it's constantly changing and you mightn't believe that you might believe this is the same you might think this is the same body you walked into this room with but it's not there are thousands of cells dying in it right now not one or two but thousands of them and being replaced and each cell that is replacing it is suffused with an innate intelligence like the first two cells that formulated it the sperm and the ova were suffused with that innate intelligence and the energy of that that innate intelligence so it's constantly changing but what do we do we fixate on a mental concept which is now dead and gone not a bit of use to it might be useful as a memory to bring in and footwork something out in the moment but it's no good as the dead image we're relating to a dead image constantly trying to keep up with light, life which is constantly changing that's why we get left behind we can never keep up with this immediacy until you let go of the past and all it holds onto and remain firmly not a bit of remaining firmly you can't get away from it in this moment in this immediacy and let that life express and do what it needs to do each and every moment is a fresh and new expression of that and that's what happens here there's a sort of a seeming wonderment or curiosity what's going to unfold next I'm not too concerned in what's gone there can be many painful memories in that which are getting less and less as time goes on they're getting forgotten as the memory's breaking down also but this is the actuality this is the only time that livingness can happen if we're not utilising it fully we've got to fill up with old ideas old images, past events and experiences past pains and hurts and fears we're wasting it be totally with it as the Buddhists tell you one of their sayings is to be utterly awake totally awake with the five senses wide open and that's what's going on with us originally the hearing is there, the seeing is there the tasting is there, the touching is there the smelling is there, the thinking all those sensations are happening right now and what have we done we've fixated on one and even though the others are happening in the background we're missing out on them because we're attached to the one to the exclusion, practical exclusion of the others but it says be utterly awake with the five senses wide open and be utterly open so it says be open to them all with unfixated awareness and if you're not fixating on the one then flip to the others what's right now you're listening to this voice or you might be listening but you'll hear a car go by you'll see that cat walk around the room you'll notice the movement in it and what other hearing is going on the feeling, the sensations attached they're all going on in the same immediacy but you're trying to work out what's being said here if you are, you've probably gone to sleep couldn't care less you'll be focused on that particular one and you'll be able to grasp it with the concept and that's what the Sargadatta says we try to grasp it with the concept and we fail and he says you're bound to fail because it's non-conceptual awareness so the conceptualising can still go on but the difference is you'll know the truth of it and that's the old scriptual saying know the truth and the truth will set you free when you know the truth you can't put the energy of belief and the belief is no longer the actual for you and you're free of the belief and you look at the dictionary definition of belief it's an unquestioned acceptance of something in the absence of reason acceptance of an alleged fact without positive knowledge or proof put your beliefs to that test you can do that and if it's false it will not stand up to investigation because the false when you start looking at it cannot be proven it's not a test it's not a stand up to investigate if it's a fact you can't get out of it in any way shape or form because it's the actuality just the same as the actuality you are being right now and you're not noticing that half the time you say I've got to do this I've got to do that I've got to become enlightened or blah blah blah but some other concepts are right there but you are being, you are knowing and you are loving to be you can't negate that take hold of it recognise it recognise it as what you actually are and what happens when this seeming life essence goes out of this body you've got a corpse there's no longer the life energy vibrating, pattern shaping, forming and expressing through it but it is in a certain way because it's formed enzymes, microbes which are starting to rot the body there's still life forms that are varying so life forms are still there life is continually living on life out of life more life comes but you see when that body is a corpse it's got the eyes, it's got the ears it's got the heart, the lungs, the kidneys all the organs are there but you can't utilise those organs anymore because what's missing?

the life energy that's what's missing and so that body is not a bit of good without that life essence and a good analogy is your computer you're all flying with computers and all the rest of it all the time all that information you've got some wonderful and wondrous information in that computer punch those keys run that mouse over it do everything you can with it without the power turned on what good is it to you? so what is it? is it the information that's in it? or is it the power that enables that information to be utilised through whatever pattern shape and form it is whether it's a computer, a phone or your body or your mind or a star or a planet or the earth or any other way it's that life as Nisargadatta put it there is only life that's all there is you and I are life he says there's nobody who lives a life no body no mind no person who lives a life and he went on a little bit further and says that life lives on life or out of life it's out of life that more life comes life lives on life because this and this life we're living now it comes out of the food essence and life is continually living out of that life and isn't that what the Christ told you a couple of thousand years ago when he says I am the way I am the truth I am the life people thought he was talking about himself yeah he's the way, truth and life he wasn't he was talking about that sense of presence the knowing that you are my mind and every other mind is the thought I am but it's not the thought it's that life that's that enabled that thought to come out I am, that is the way that is the truth, that is the life that sense of presence in other words without the label I am and he was not aware of present right being present right now that sense of presence within you and it's that life that's enabled that sense of presence to pattern, shape and form and experience and express you are that don't forget that so get into it that's all I'll do, I'll talk for a while I might come up with something later I don't know, hey Jane you're free to say what you want to say think what you want to think do what you want to do talk what you want to talk if you start try and keep it on the non dual pattern if you can because you can go out here and all the bullshit anywhere else you like remember what Bob Holmes said and I think that was helpful if you would actually start with what you heard because what he says if you heard something that he said and it will be that slight shift that can actually help someone else to resonate with it so if there is anything throughout his spiel that you actually really heard you could just repeat it in your own words and somebody else might hear it again a good way to start otherwise we're going to sit in silence one thing that there's an element of fear that jumps in that grieves me when I hear the message it's like I need to protect there's also the understanding that whatever it is I'm perfect and you're being on with fear I understand that's part of it as well so I can understand that I'm going to fall back into it so it seems like that's it as well that's part of it and I've got to let go of trying to escape wanting something different beautiful see we had this sensation when we were trying to find words which we'd like fear sensation come up we didn't understand or didn't know or it hurt or whatever we labelled it fear we're bringing this sensation up ever since and trying to avoid these sensations this thing we call fear now we've hang on to it for so long the thought of letting it go and getting it out of the mind what are we going to do how am I going to be without it it's very hard to see and let go of it not hard to see but to let go of it it's the last thing that will go in you but it needs to be looked at and see that when you realise there is nothing in there that's any solidity any substance or anything at all that there is to let go of like the fellow that's walking through a drunk walk staggering through a church a cemetery one night on his way home and there's an open grave there and he falls into it he grabs the top of it and he's going down and he's hanging there shit what am I going to do here worrying all night in the morning he wakes up the sun comes over the horizon his feet are that far off the roof hang on all night frightened to let go but there was nowhere to fall from many other metaphors we use to point that out we've hung on to it and clung to it we've tried to protect it for so long we're fearful of letting it go there's a gold saying too do the things you fear and the death of fear is certain and that's a fact it's really not even necessary to let go of the fear it's just to notice it as another pattern in consciousness like wanting to protect yourself or wanting to protect yourself or wanting to not lose something it's a beautiful affirmation of love for life so just seeing it as a passing cloud then as you are noticing it as a content you already noticing it from its opposite so you are already consciousness being aware of the content and as you said yes it is important not to want anything different than what is so if the fear appears the freedom is when you don't want it to go when you are totally okay whether it is there or it is not that's the freedom and of course it's fear only if you call it fear otherwise it's just rushing energy like false evidence appearing real I like that one the acronym for fear false evidence appearing real false evidence appearing real false evidence appearing real because once you know you are not Santa Claus yes yes yes yes so to speak I love that analogy also if you reframe it you could call it excitement there are many appearances out there in the manifestation investigators have seen the pulses of the blue sea the blue sky there is no blueness in the sky if you get up in a plane the water in the mirage the snake in the rope all sorts of the rainbow they fall apart under the investigation investigate the concepts and images you have got about yourself that's the important one who am I?

what am I? am I this person? see if it is true am I the thought I think or am I the thinking am I the thought I see or am I the seeing so the thinking is that as well isn't it like it is a manifestation of the wholeness yes he should not be he can eat any flowers he wants but lilies are toxic for cats but thinking happens spontaneously what is your next thought when it comes up spontaneously I don't understand that that is only when you are identifying with it that it causes issues well put a shape and form on it name the word and put the sound so when you are when you are when you are when you are labelling the thinking that is when the like you are going to be thinking a lot that is what we do as humans right but the problem happens when you are labelling the thinking put the word on take the word to be real if you are not putting a label on it what is it it is just sound just vibration without any shape or form on it it is just a movement of energy without any sound all sounds all sounds of vibration concepts mental constructs the label that I put that thinking into that and the realisation that if I take that away freedom yeah taking the meaning away so called me and the other duality there is no me can there be another I reckon I know that like the the thought that is completely neutral or innocent the sky is blue or the cat is eating lily that is not a problem it does not cause any suffering but when I take it personal the sky is blue and I want it to be black or I want it to be different I don't like it this way suddenly the relationship is formed or the cat is eating lilies and I don't want it or whatever I am worried that relationship with the me naturally creates a creates the reference point the self centre or the ego and now that ego is looking at everything from fixed perspective from the perspective of me as you said the meaning the moment you give meaning I like it I don't like it this is no good or whatever that creates the tension because that excludes half of the half of the universe the innocent thoughts or the thoughts like Bob says if you don't put words obviously it is hard to even call it thoughts the vibration of energy but even if the words are put but they are not personal they are not relational they are still not binding yet they kind of define reality but they don't create suffering but the moment they relate it that's it and that's automatic because the biology of the organism will brings up the natural the reasoning capacity natural capacity to judge and evaluate and the danger can be avoided but as you said when you know the truth the truth will set you free so you see the body doing it but that's not you doing it the instincts are evaluating and avoiding dangers but what does it have to do with me as totality nothing I'm just actually seeing what the body is doing the body is throwing some sort of survival instinct even anxiety or fear or whatever it does to make the cortisol run through the body to make fight and flight effect body going the blood oxidates and I'm not really motivated going to hands and legs so I can run good wonderful but that's just a phenomenon happening it's nothing to do with me as the totality as the consciousness I'm free because I know the truth about it I know I'm not the doer of it I know it's just spontaneous happening like the next thought or the next sound that will come up and I love what Krishnamurti says the mind is the me the mind is the past and you know that sometimes that thought of yourself in your mind is just a memory and it can only be projected into the past and so reflected on looking into the past or projected into the future you start to see the thoughts just flowing in a sort of mechanical way and it's when you have a response to the thoughts flowing in a mechanical way sometimes that's a natural response instinctive like Kat was saying but other times it's causing you dis-ease or conflict within yourself and as Kat was also saying that's because you have a fixed idea about something and you want that something to be different but like the mind is a wonderful instrument but when it causes you pain it's because you're stuck on one particular response to something that's happening and sometimes like Kat said that's appropriate because it might save the cat from being poisoned but other times when it's just a mental construct and you're having a response that causes you pain have a look at who that pain is being caused to and that's the image you have about yourself which is just another thought in your mind hope that helps it is a great invitation to question any sort of discomfort or resistance it's almost as if consciousness is calling you come on have a look because everything is an opportunity to watch the mind yeah you've got that spiritual path that I was sort of thinking about we spoke about it last week finding different things and always searching you know for something else and there's nothing to search for it at all since sort of a friend sort of introduced me to non duality these ideas it all rings really true and I believe it and I believe this is where I'm supposed to be but I find it I'm scared because it feels a bit isolating you know because I have to go back out in the world it just I don't even know how to express it just feels like I'm living in a different way or I'm thinking in a different way and I'm surrounded by all these aliens you know and you know this morning I was just sharing before like I woke up I wasn't sure I haven't been sleeping very well I wasn't sure I was going to come and I just sort of got in the car and it was just you know like I just got here and it just felt right and I felt you know and even this sort of breaking down or whatever you want to label it feels right it's just I think somebody else has said it sort of there is that resistance you know I sort of want to and I've done that a lot in the different things that I've explored is you know I feel like I get you know so close to what feels true and that it gets so painful that I just back away and try and pretend that oh no I'm okay I'm okay with just you know living out with the others you know but then it doesn't feel true either and it's just it's really confusing and I don't know I just yeah I guess sort of just where are that moments So it seems real and you believe it to be so so it seems real and you don't believe it know it what brought that emotion in your body was it a thought feeling emotion or was it one of the same things so a thought might come up you mightn't even know what it is but it might be a better past event or whatever's happening to you or a feeling or a sense of it and it build up and it cause the feeling the feeling can be called sadness happiness or whatever feeling it cause that builds up and will become the tears and the emotion comes out it's all of one essence it's subtle don't be ashamed of your tears or anything like that literally don't believe that you know it you do know it know the truth not believe putting in some mental concept but you are that already that's enabling you to take that breath it's enabling those tears coming enabling that feeling to come within you move your heart or the sensation within you It doesn't always have to be this way it doesn't but it was for me it clearly is for you um this is about shedding non duality is about shedding dismantling letting go seeing the truth and often we come to this come to non duality after having spent a lot of time looking and being invested in other paths other ways other things whatever that may be doesn't matter what it is and then we kind of arrive here and we hear the truth and all that gets challenged what we've been doing and something resonates in us that somehow knows this is it okay now then we try and understand what it is with the head and we can't we can't we really can't so it's trusting this morning you trusted that your head was going will I won't I yeah but you were moved to come here so I'd say trust that really really trust that now I'm feeling isolated what you said yeah this that we're being asked to look at this form of self inquiry is quite isolating because it requires nobody else literally nobody else thank god these groups get held three times a week so that at least people can turn up here and have this kind of dialogue yeah so the closer you get to this the more alone you're going to feel sorry to tell you that but you are you are because it's an interpersonal look or it's a you have to do it so it requires looking here if you like wherever here is but it does and it takes you to do it so this is really about having you've got to look for yourself and there's a huge difference between really really looking I mean really looking as opposed to thinking you're looking at yourself you're looking at yourself it's a massive difference that pain or that fear that was discussed earlier in my experience the closer I got to I'm going to call it it the closer I got to it the more pain I felt the more isolated I felt and if you one way to look at that is the closer you get to love the more profound the separation feels because you're acutely more aware of this seeming separation and it can throw you into a state like that totally can did me totally did I was completely isolated in the end completely isolated and it doesn't have to be this way but I'm just kind of painting a picture I was so isolated I wasn't working wasn't seeing anyone had no one dropping around my phone wasn't ringing nada nothing zip so I was just sitting literally just on my own but so earnestly looking just looking just you know and not with that not with that it's a big difference you know like even if like if I ask people in the room to I don't know look at that painting on the wall to the left doesn't require thinking to do that it's just looking you don't have to think okay well now I'm going to shift my eyes and turn my head at the same time over to that and then focus on that that doesn't occur there's literally just looking yeah so it can get a bit tight it can but all I would say is absolutely trust that intuition that's going on in you that is saying this is truth or this is it even if you can't understand it which you never will by the way it's not possible to understand with that it's not we try to for a while until in the end we get you got to put it down that sense organ thought is useless in the end it's totally useless but it gets used for a while yeah and that fear thing that you brought up Michael what does fear fear most fear that's the cycle that's what keeps it there literally that's what keeps that thought that whole thought process going fear hates fear it does but that all comes about because we label it what you were saying because we're labeling it and then as soon as we label it yeah we connect it with past experiences that we've had that we've also labeled fear and that comes up in the body and vibrates in the body and we feel similar or the same as all the other experiences that we've had in the past so that vibration comes up oh yeah that's fear what if we didn't label it like it's not even it's not even that you've got a that you've got a choice in whether you label it or don't label it you really don't but seeing that this me is nothing but a construct of word which manifests into thoughts but it's word it's all word me is nothing but word my idea of the world is nothing but word nothing but that word and then the problem is we take the word to be the actual thing and the word's only ever a description it's never the actual thing but because of all our past experiences we're not when we label it manifests here yep I'm feeling that again yeah but I know Mike but you can't do that you can't let go you can't hang on you can't do anything there's no doer involved in seeing or knowing there's no doer involved in that and what we're asked to do here is to investigate this so called individual this so called me investigate that and see what it actually is literally see what it actually is any conflict that we've got going on with ourself and the world or ourself and somebody else or even ourself and self sounds like there's two selves any conflict that we've got going on with ourself and the world is nothing but thoughts in conflict with thoughts full stop that needs to be seen and only you can see that for yourself by looking and not that there's a you that can see that so anything I'm saying is just a pointer really that's all that ever happens we believe we're in a relationship with somebody we're not we're so not number one we can't be in a relationship with somebody because there's not two so that's number one and number two the relationship that we believe we're having with somebody else is a relationship that we're having with what we think of them it's got nothing to do with them zero nada it's got nothing to do with them the real relationship is when there's no me there's no you and we are one and you can hardly call that a relationship yeah Bob says at the beginning of the group sometimes I'm not talking to any mind I'm not talking to anybody anyone, I'm not talking to anyone I'm speaking to that I am that I am or I'm speaking to that presence or that knowing, that intuition that I am it's the same thing there's not two of them there's not a presence happening there and a presence happening here it's the same presence and the only thing that splits it up or divides it is thought that just thought and as was pointed out earlier Michelle we don't have any control over it we have no control over thought are you kidding me no I'm not we literally have no control over it it just happens but then we take responsibility for it we say this is my thinking I shouldn't be thinking this I've got to change the way I think okay if you're on the personal self development path knock yourself out go for it yeah and look and in truth there's nothing wrong with that either it would be again, just what's happening so that there's actually nothing happening we believe there's something happening not no we believe there's something happening we believe there's a me that gets affected by that's the bottom line there's a belief that there's a me here and that me says please, me hears tastes, touch, smells and thinks for six cents, thinking so this is not about me trying to gain something it's not it's so counterintuitive this yeah it's the complete I used to say a lot it's a 180 to what we think we should be doing it's a complete it really is it really is a complete 180 it's a negation yeah so it's coming to this thing that's being called awakening is coming to see what you're not that's right not trying to get something from what you're not it'll never happen that'd be like a your dream character in your dream at night when it's asleep going to satsangs and reading this book and doing all this stuff why?

because it wants to experience your dream character I'm talking about when you're asleep and dreaming that dream character wants to experience what it's like to be awake in the morning can it? as soon as you wake up it's gone you get that? as soon as you wake up it's gone but for that to happen you've got to see it's a dream you've got to see that it just happens just like in your dream at night when you're sleeping you have no control over the content in that dream zip you have no control over the content in this so called waking dream zip you've got to see that and in the seeing of it it starts to lose its grip and there's a stirring that starts to happen like there's a stirring that happens when you are asleep on your bed at night if you're really attentive there is a stirring that happens as you wake up even before your eyes open there's a stirring that happens it's the same so it's just recognizing or seeing for yourself what is really actually happening in truth like tackle it logically logically who would I be if I I got struck with amnesia all gone total history gone wiped didn't know my name nothing who would I be then would I be Terry would I have a history no because that's all wiped would I even be Terry would I have anything yet there'd still be an aliveness here you couldn't deny that there'd still be sitting there'd still be an aliveness there'd still be awareness there'd still be seeing hearing tasting touching and smelling that would all be going on with the absence of memory and in the absence of memory Terry disappears so what's Terry what's Terry thoughts memory conditioning simply that and then we bring that idea all those thoughts and that conditioning into the present and go oh this is me fuck it's so not it's so so not and you have no control over all those thoughts that come up and trickle through whatever it is that's going on even what you experienced earlier Felicity all of it no control over that that just happened I'll bet if you had some sort of control being a me I'll bet if you had some sort of control you'd like to have switched that off in public yeah great that you didn't by the way yeah see it just all of this stuff just happens it all just happens and it's recognising that seeing that and if you can see it you can't be it if you can be aware of it you can't be it so that the stance or the abiding or the place to be if you like which you always are by the way is observing observing just watching coming to see that that all just happens it all flows through because your whole me is dependent on that whatever it is that flows through if you watch that earnestly enough you'll see that your me is in there whereas at the moment we think there's a me here that gets affected by what goes on in here rubbish that's not true it's totally not true yeah yeah but you yeah but you can't yes but you can you are aware and you can see correct?

so you can see my hand so there's a subject there and an object here and you know you're not that correct? it's the same with what goes on here if you can be aware of it it cannot be you cannot do you understand? and that that is aware of all this that's going on we've never ever given it any attention we've just assumed it's me and it's not it's the separation you know I feel like I'm mixing other ideas from you know like that human experience yeah that's that's okay but keep it really really simple this is just about observing coming to see what you're not literally coming to see what you're not when that's profoundly seen it drops it drops then and all the torment and all the suffering and all the fear drops why?

because it's all stuff from the past there's no relevance to presence at all zip so it's seeing it literally seeing it it's that simple it's not this is so not complicated correct yes that was beautifully would you be able to just well it was Bob's really originally he says that the nature didn't design didn't design a self center or the ego for itself so can you elaborate on that Bob? no you were asked the question yes so so it's basically well our natural state is us in nature we are the nature we are not separated or isolated from the nature this is our true nature to be like nature and as in nature nothing like tree doesn't have self identity it doesn't have preferences what the weather is going to be like the moon doesn't ask or the planets or the suns they are not being they are not planning the trajectory like the sun is not saying in 12 hours I'm going to be hanging on the other side of the earth they don't do it it's just the natural intelligence that rolls them over and does everything and the same way we function and I was actually going to add what I was saying this was beautiful by the way but there is a thing that I wanted to highlight that sense of isolation doesn't have to be a part of the process because that is not part of awakening that is part of actually dancing of the ego the ego hanging by the skin of the teeth to want to exist like the fear or anxiety or loneliness or whatever the projection is always related to the me if there is nobody home who is to be isolated who is to be lonely or fearful if there is just plain emptiness all inclusive emptiness just like in nature the space doesn't say that I don't want that planet or I don't want that person I don't want anything it all embraces and includes everything isolation also resistance also fear also our true nature is that place of rest a place in which there is no resistance towards anything even resistance if the wave of resistance comes on the surface of the water it is part of the appearance of the Maya of the form but we stay as the emptiness and again process of discarding as Terry was saying is a pointer that's not the reality that's not the truth it's not that I am the emptiness and not the form because that's duality the form is the form emptiness vibrates and becomes a form the air vibrates and becomes the sound the light the energy becomes a light the microwave, the other waves the subatomic particles dancing very fast and creating matter so I am the body and I am every other body and I am every other thought and all of it but not this pointer the neti neti, the discarding pointer is just for the purpose of investigation and it's very helpful it usually as Terry says or Nisargadatta said it in the beautiful words the perceivable and conceivable are not you nothing that can be conceived or perceived thought of or observed couldn't be the ultimate seer or observer but as Bob mentioned earlier there is no seer in the scene it's just a seeing it's not me observing this this is me, this is observer observing this so this is not me but I am still here no, it's just seeing and the content of the seeing is like in nature the content of the space is the planets, the trees, the animals the people, the thoughts, the resistances they are all content of space the content of seeing are objects the content of hearing are sounds the content of thinking are mental images and thoughts and I am the space I am the whole space like awareness filtered by the body as a space of seeing space of hearing space of thinking like Bob was saying stay utterly awake with five senses wide open and then you are seeing, hearing, tasting, touching, smelling not someone who does it and now I am doing the smelling so I am not the smell I am the smeller no, I am just the process the space filtered by the senses I am the space of thinking and I allow every thought including the uncomfortable one and just treating them like the clouds in the sky and if the following of the thought happens that is also allowed on the deepest level nothing is ever resisted everything is allowed including egos, including suffering that's the beauty of it it is always stepping back into the place when everything is eternally ok even if this body is crying screaming out of pain I am beyond that allowing this body to scream in pain that's the freedom when I don't want anything to be different than it is because that's how this moment was designed and expressed by nature and I am that nature if I am resisting this moment I am dreaming to be something else than the nature if I am the nature and I created it the way it is so if there is a resistance it means subtly I as a nature dream to be opposite or separate and that's how the dream comes about the totality cannot experience itself unless it dreams itself to be the other it dreams itself a body it dreams itself a world it dreams itself a boundary between the two so that's a dream and the dream is beautiful it is to be appreciated but knowing the truth is free and then the dream can be enjoyed the dream doesn't need to be resisted even if the pain happens because it will ask Bob he's got almost 4 years of living, abiding in a state of being that nature and he had a hip replacement last year and his knees are packing up he's taking painkillers if necessary the pain is inevitable because this is a part of duality there is pleasure and pain day and night dark and white me and the other otherwise there would be nothing if there wouldn't be experience of sickness who would know what health is if there wouldn't be an experience of pain who would know the pleasure that always in that dream everything is known from its opposite and it will continue this way it's just knowing that this is how it plays out and allowing it to play as it wish and just being that space of allowing and it's not an action of allowing because there is no action required it's just yeah like Teddy was saying just looking noticing, knowing they call it cognizing emptiness the space with the capacity of knowing capacity of knowing being knowing and loving to be that's what Bob quotes Sat Chit Ananda and everyone has that already because everyone is already existing and is already conscious of its own existence so so it is really about just coming back to that place in which okay that's the content and I'm that content too but there is nothing to actually add to it there is nothing to oppose if the opposition happens it's nothing to do about anything the space does not do anything and I am the space so what am I going to do nothing not even allow or discard nothing ultimately my nature is to just be the nature that's not even easy that's inevitable yeah that's Bob's that's one of my favourite pointers which Bob used to highlight leave everything as it is unaltered, unmodified, uncorrected just hands off don't touch it, just leave it as it is the only way to alter or modify or correct it is by the thinking by adding label or judging it or trying to resist it or push it this is all imaginary leaving it as it is including the resistance and just see how it changes because nothing stays still in that appearance it doesn't have to be the experience of intense isolation I mean in my case it was similar to Terry, the suffering was actually growing and the investigation was getting frustrating and for a lot of people suffering is actually an invitation to question things and suffering well the more acute the more kind of effective but for many many other people just simple sense of discontentment is enough it doesn't have to be a suicidal depression it doesn't have to be a sense of loss because that discontentment that well it's not quite it yet that's already enough to question because the ego that's having a feeling that I'm separate or isolated, I'm not a totality I'm anything less than totality it doesn't have to be suffering I can be the brightest, the smartest the prettiest, the healthiest, the greatest the richest and that sense of discontentment will still be there because oh it's not going to last so coming back to that basic sense of discontentment that sense of void that there's something lacking, something missing that is actually enough to successfully see through that resistance we don't need to wait for the yeah well it happens as it happens the truth is nobody has the saying it's just every story is different for some people suffering is inevitable for other people it's just like it happened to a lot of others you know the event of putting a shoe on and suddenly the consciousness opens up and the sense of separation is seen for what it is it's just seen as a pattern that is disappearing dissolving and then also throughout the day how often we actually experience the natural state and we don't even notice it because it is not memorized by the mind because the mind doesn't have the you know if it's nothing how it could be memorized it doesn't have a symbol for it it's actually stored in the memory but these moments when nothing is wrong these moments when we just walk down the road and the leaves are dancing in the air and the reflection of the sun or the bird and nothing wrong there is no one who would have to say oh yeah yeah but you know it should be warmer or it should be it's nothing wrong that's the natural state because we often look for something bigger or greater we often look that oh no no awakening is going to be some great fire works or whatever it's a sense of bliss or orgasm and it's going to last forever no it's a natural state I didn't see any trees or planets orgasming in eternity they just are the simplicity of being and again even the blissful state is known from its opposite if there was an eternal bliss and they are quite a big evidence around certain drug abuse like a DMT or something that causes the serotonin shock and it literally kills the experiencer because if you get too much of a bliss for too long of a time the hardware will just shut down so imagining and experiencing the eternal bliss if it doesn't kill you it will very very easily just deselect it out of the conscious awareness just like a background smell of mold or whatever after an hour you can't smell it, it's deselected or if you have the red colored glasses after a week you don't see it because the brain is recalculating everything so eternal bliss is a myth it's a nice kind of a teaser to get people to investigate but it's not going to happen the bliss is like when you about say when you wake up in the morning and you say you had blissful sleep what does it mean, did you orgasm all night?

no it's just the peace it's just the sense of ease and peace and naturalness so if anyone is looking for ecstatic experiences well there are plenty of possibilities there are plenty of breathing exercises that can give you a temporary bliss or kundalini exercises but the natural state is not a state of eternal bliss it is a peaceful it's a non-resistance and it's well it is beautiful it is totally lovable it is totally all inclusive and there is totally nothing wrong in it and because we all had an experience of that contraction or that ego we are going to value it above everything else because by remembering the contraction and the ego and the suffering that becomes prominent that's why the cats or dogs or trees they don't really value their own natural state of awakening because state of awakening is the state of freedom from imagining of being separate I didn't see the cats imagining to be a person and taking offense or doing any of it they don't really have that frontal lobe and that default mode network developed in their brains so they can't do it but they don't appreciate their sense of freedom they take it for granted so they are always living in wholeness in a wholeness in the present moment absolutely so the cat is sleeping there but he is totally alert one thing and he will jump he has got even the hair on his fur they have the motion detectors so he is totally totally in a meditative state one could say where all senses are wide open and he is filtering in a real time in that timeless now whatever is happening and not having a story that things should be different so we are more complex our brains are more complex so we can so our brains can have a concept of self and that's what separation is that's the original cause and without that there wouldn't be an awakening and as Miss Saga says nothing can trouble you except in your own imagination we have the capacity of reasoning which is more developed than other animals and birds so it is our ability to think is it paramount to be able to speak and communicate yes one could say yes and also the biology of the body that we have hands that can grab things it's an amazing invention of evolution if you look from the perspective of the whole planet we outnumbered almost all except of bacteria perhaps so we are just ironing out a few faults or flaws at the moment maybe evolutionary wise yes it backfires but the judgement that anything is good or bad comes only from that conceptualising like the moon or the stars or the galaxies they have no concept that there is anything wrong with humans wiping off other animals or birds or insects and whatever we think all is well you could have a story that everything is an absolute nightmare but actually all is well same as in the dream in the night dream you can go through the war or you can wipe off the civilisations and when you wake up what happens?

and this is not to say that we should not be looking after the environment or trying to do we have no saying we have to do something about it and they will move it and they will do it the ecological movements are also part of the reasoning capacity it is all self-organising and resolving itself and you know the part of the suffering coming with the growing amount of anxiety is also part of the heart opening when it hits the wall so it is in a bigger picture everything gets resolved like Bob often says they were ice ages before they were creatures wiped off the face of the planet they were climate changes many many of them and they were also responses from the animals hiding or migrating or evolutionarily developing some sort of hibernation capacities or whatever and now they are also everything is resolving itself it is just not interfering and just being amazed with the beauty of it with the intelligence of it but do you think humanity is moving towards this this awareness of being who knows see how subtly and how quickly you go to the imagination sorry I want to go back in there and figure it out that's beautiful that's part of it you'll never find the answer in the mind never it's a beautiful dream this was one of the last dreams that I had to give up you know the idea that there is an evolution of consciousness and then the tendency is for people to get more and more awake and aware what a beautiful dream but it is nothing but the dream because the reality is right now in this moment the story about future is not the reality ok that's time's thank you thank you thank you