Sailor Bob on nonuduality - All levels are in the mind 18 Aug 2019

Everything is that related to what we call I. But we take I to be a person, a separate entity, an individual. As they say, that's I that is that. It's I that is everything. I is a symbol for the figure one. They're written the same way, one, I. But we're not satisfied with that. That add the beingness to it is the amness, or the awareness, or knowingness. I am. Now we don't sit with the I amness. As Nisargadatta said, just stay with that sense of presence which translates to the thought I am. Stay with that I amness. We haven't put the person or any other concept on it.

But that's what we do. What is this me or I? Or go back, look in memory to see what it is. Or I am. I am this body. I am this mind. The parents told me I'm little Johnny or little Billy. And I've reinforced that through my life without questioning it. Taking it to be real. And realizing that everybody around us is doing the same thing. There are a few who have seen through it. They'll tell you don't go there. You're not that. Not that you are not existing. Because you say that's all crap. I am existing. I can't deny it. But we've taken the belief immediately I am the person.

I am this body. I am this mind. That's what I was told. That's what I've kept believing. That's what I've reinforced. And everybody around me is reinforcing it. Until something moves me further along. And I start hearing something. It might be a word. Or read something. It might be a sentence in a book. Or something. Somebody. Something. Something. That rings a bell. That resonates. And then that ring, what I call ringing a bell, resonates. The innate intelligence that you are, the activity you're doing, is recognized, recognized as something a little bit more to this than the conceptual imaging. Which is bringing up the fears, the anxieties.

Because in that ringing a bell, in that resonation, there's a sense of well-being in it. This seems right. This seems actual. This seems real. And we come along and try to find out a bit more. But just investigate the words. In the beginning, it was the word. That's when everything began, was the word. When that subtle vibrating came on it. And we learnt words. The word was with God. That's all there's to God is the word. The word was God. All things were made by Him. Have a look at this manifestation. It's all word. Trees, flowers, space, animals, birds, insects, humans, everything are all concepts of words.

There was nothing made without the word. If you're going along without the word, what are you doing? You're seeing everything just as it is. You don't see a homogenous solid mass out there. You see it as all a seeming individuality. It's all a sense of separation. And you're knowing what it is. But to make it clearer, we put words on words. Each one of us uses the same words for the same different things. So we know what we're talking about. So language can be very useful. But it's also when we say, oh, I'm not good enough, I'm fearful, I'm unhappy, or I'm depressed. All these sensations that come up that are not the feel-good sensations, we label them as the opposite.

They're bad. And then we say, oh, I'm not good enough. And naturally, we want to stay with the feel-goodness all the time. Not realizing and recognizing that in nature, it's all a constant change. It's all transient. It's always day, night, winter, summer, high, low, good, bad, pleasant, bad. We put those labels on, but it's functioning quite naturally. It's the absence of darkness right now, so it's light. As the earth rolls around the sun a bit further, and faces towards it, that facing towards it will be the light. And this side is facing away from it will be the darkness. And the seasonings will start. As the sun's in a certain place in the sky, whatever it is, I don't know.

I'm not a weatherman or anything. It'll become as it is now. The winter is just ending. It's heading towards more light, more clarity, and more radiance of the sun, which will be the spring, the summer, and autumn. So everything is functioning as it should, even you and I. But we're putting the brakes on. We're putting the limitations on with the word, with the concepts. And we think because we've gone to schools, and society tells us we've learned many things and acquired many things, and their parents have told us, we think we're going to find the answer with the word. And how we're all adults right now, we learnt words when we were kids, we're still learning words, and we've probably looked for quite a while to find the answer.

It's very simple. It's all mind stuff. What we put the concept on all this labelling, we call it mind. We're looking for the answer in the mind. You think you're going to find mind in mind, or with mind, you can only bring up more mind. Don't try to wash away blood with blood. It'll still only be blood. And the ancients tell us the answer when the mind is not. Full stop. Pause the thought. Don't go there. Different labels are put on it, which you can't do naturally, but the innate intelligence will take you prior to the thought, prior to the concept, prior to the image.

And you'll get the taste of it. And keep recognising that, coming back and recognising when they get carried away with thoughts again. Pause, drop them as court, as soon as possible. And naturally, the more clarity there is, the less obscuration that's going on with the thoughts, and there's more clarity, the natural functioning comes through. Much clearer. And it becomes naturally, what you call, stronger. Because the conceptual imaging starts to drop away. And the fears and everything that go with it got nowhere to fixate on. And they cannot fixate on the concept, relating to the concept, and becoming the concept or the word. Like how close is this word, Bob, related to this pattern, shape and form?

Or the label you put upon yourself? Isn't that seemingly very close? This is me. This is I. And so what am I? I am Bob, or this thought or this concept. But this is me, this is I, is that sense of presence. I can't negate. It is that existence. It is that consciousness. It is that beingness. And loving to be. And that's what they mean when they say, I am that. They just don't put it on me or you. They say everything is that. Innately you know that because you say that is a tree. But on from that, put the label of the tree. That is the flower.

That is Tony. That is me. That is you. Everything is that. Everything is that. Pure presence awareness, pattern shaping form, which we put the label of that on. We don't recognise or register or see the simplicity of this. The actuality of it. Because we're so used to conceptualising it. Trying to work things out with the mind. It can't be this simple. Because that's our habit pattern. Looking for the answer in the mind. And with maths and things like that, naturally you'll find work things out with figures and numbers, things like that and other things can be worked out. The actuality, the reality that you are, is always and ever with you, ever fresh, ever knowing, ever present awareness.

Always has been and always will be. So instead of going and looking at what's next and what does this mean, or something's coming up, who is this happening to? And you don't have to be a Rhodes Scholar to reckon, well, what's happening to me? I'm feeling it. I'm unhappy about it. I'm depressed about it. Wait a minute, that lady up there said there is no me. Is he right or is he wrong? I'll have another look. What is I or me? They're words. I take those words and what is it? Without the word again, what are you without the word? You can't even put the word being on it or existing on it.

But it's happening. You can't even say I am. I am not. Because the very knowing behind it all is that I am. There's a pure knowingness there. Or a pure intelligence. And that's all intelligence is, energy is, the activity of knowing. Because intelligence or an activity is a movement. And the knowingness or the movement is going on with it. Breathing, heart beating, hair and fingernails going, food's being digested, thinking coming and going, feelings. It's all movement. All energy. Discriminated by the word. Now it doesn't mean to say you have to be away with words either. But put more understanding and recognition into it. That the word isn't a thing.

It can be useful. It's not me. Keep recognising the that-ness. The pure present awareness existing. Right in this moment. Recognise. That's what we call the cognising emptiness. When you think it's that emptiness that has the capacity of cognising or knowing. The capacity of cognising or knowing is there, yes. But it's not me that's doing it. It's the emptiness itself. That's vibrating into that cognising, patterning, shaping, or knowing. And they said the emptiness is form. The emptiness, the no-thingness can vibrate into something seemingly solid and substantial. A form. A shape. A pattern. But then they tell you, look at it and see that the form is nothing but the emptiness.

The emptiness is a form, yeah. But the form is nothing but the emptiness. Never has been and never will be. Appearing as a difference. Call this a manifestation. It's my or illusion. A phenomenal manifestation. Your dictionary definition of phenomena, that word phenomena, is that which appears to be. And what is appearance? It's seemingly so. Because when you look at the water and the sea, it's not blue. It appears to be. Look at the sky. It's not blue. It appears to be. The water on the ridge appears to be. Many other things that appear to be so. When you investigate them, they say the appearance is not real.

So it's that emptiness. It's all that emptiness appearing as this manifestation. And it's only the way. It's only the one. Not even the one. Because one implies there's something other. So we got the idea of one. There's an implication. There's one. That's the way we've been taught. As soon as there's one, there's two. Then there's two and three and four. There's not even the one. It's just this actuality right here, right now. And you are that. We've taken on this belief we're separate. When you investigate and see, try and work out, you realize you can't remember your birth. And you don't remember any words from the time you were born for the first couple of years of your life.

So you didn't begin to, as far as you were concerned and I am concerned, we didn't begin to alert words. And from then on, we've taken a word to be the real. Put labels on everything. And invested all the recognition into the conceptualizing, into the word. Settle back into your natural state. Natural meaning as in nature. The sun is not trying to work out its natural state. The air, the fire, they're all naturally happening. That means they're just the same as you naturally appeared. And are still naturally living. We think we're going to lose so many things and all the rest of it. We go, let's stop looking for this and looking for that.

But realize you couldn't acquire any of these things if the heart wasn't beating, the breathing wasn't happening, the life, the things. The life, the thinking wasn't going and the words weren't there. And let that natural functioning go on. Investigate it, recognize it and stay with it. Until that realization, that absolute realization, I am that existence. I am that consciousness. I am that loving to be. I am that Sat Chit Ananda. And the nama and rupa, the name and form, the patterns which enable that expression to be so. I didn't have this body and the thinking that goes on in it, the brain, the heart, the lungs and all the organs.

I couldn't say a word. I couldn't do anything. So that instrument is very useful, just like a computer. It's a useful instrument. It's got some wonderful information in it. If you haven't got the power on, you can't get anything out of it. And if that natural life essence wasn't functioning through each and every pattern in this room, what would you be then? You'd be a corpse. That pattern would begin to rot and break down. But from breaking down, it goes back into its totality. And other pattern shapes and forms can express and manifest and express through it. Again, come into being, play around for a while, disappear.

Appearance. Phenomena. Phenomena and disappearance. Lack of disappearance of phenomena. When we were at birth, we've taken this concept as I. We've learnt words from our parents. And you weren't born with any words. Every word you've ever spoken has been picked up along the way. And we've taken the word to be real. And everything has become with the investment in this word. And we know the life is going on. We can't negate it. But we've got no idea what it is. Not leaving it in its natural self-aware functioning state. We want to grasp it with a concept. As the saga tells you, we try to grasp it with a concept and we fail.

Because it's non-conceptual awareness. You'll never grasp it with a concept, with a thought, idea or word. And that's what I say in the start off. You recognise this as your problem. See through it. And you can utilise words then and they won't be the problem. What's the sensation fear if you're not putting the label on it? When did you put that word fear on it? When you were first told it was fear when you were a little child. This one's fear, this one's anger. And forever after when that same sensation come up, you put the label on it. Instead of seeing everything as it is.

Everything is fresh and new in this moment. Because it's nothing time bound. It's all fresh and new. It's self-seeing, self-aware, self-knowing. It's the one self. Not a personal self. As soon as we put the word on it, it's me or I. I am self. Me, my self. We call it me or my self. And it's the one self appearing, patterning, shaping, forming and expressing as everything. And you are that self. The same self that's expressing as you. As you were waving the branches around in that tree outside. Causing the saparone to run around that tree. And everything else out there. They are not separate from anything.

And without lack of separation, who is there to fear? Who is there to be angry? Who is there to want or to need? Or to care for? Any of those spontaneous activities will take place as necessary for the functioning in the moment. But we won't be relating it to the believed in me. Trying to fix the me. Which is already perfect. Absolutely perfect as you are. With all the aches and pains and things going on, it mightn't seem like what you call perfect. Why would it? Because you've got that concept. Of what you think perfect is. Not perfect as it is, but perfect as I'd like it to be.

Because I've got some conceptual image. Not realizing that everything is the absolute. Everything is the great perfection. And they tell you, the great perfection is non-conceptual awareness. That label awareness. Are you unaware? No. You can't say anything about awareness. But innately you know what awareness is. It's that wakefulness. Without any concepts, that's the natural state. So we try to grasp it with a concept. That's all that's necessary to do. Take that as a given and look into it. And every time a concept comes up. If you're taking delivery of it and getting caused fear or anxiety or stress. Investigate it. See it for what it is.

And they will fall away. Some of you have had taste of this. A lot of you, if you haven't lodged totality in it. Totally any understanding. You know when you've had moments when there's been clarity there. And we've dropped it and gone back into the old habitual way. And it's understandable. Because you've reinforced that belief. Belief in your separate nature. From the time you started reasoning. Right up until the moment. You see through it. And so it can come up of itself of moments. Which it does. Why did that happen? How did that happen? That was great. But then you drop back into the past.

And what is the past? Say this is the past. Investigate that. Is there such a thing as a past? Past and actuality. Try and live yesterday. Try and live last week or last year. You can't go back and live a moment ago. But you can recall to a certain. A lot of the things I can't recall anymore in the past. Because they're no longer any importance at all. Especially in the early childhood and things like that. And the only actuality you're giving anything is when you're recalling it right now. The recollection of it is right now. Because you can't live a moment ago. That's why you've got to understand time.

Time. So-called time itself. Which is duration. From six billion light years ago now. That means duration. The lasting thing of it. But the time is spontaneous. It's got no duration. Same with the future. You can imagine or anticipate a future time. But can you live that time in the future right now? Go ahead. Five minutes from now. Are you living there? You can imagine and anticipate what it might be. When it comes along it mightn't be quite as you imagine it and anticipate it. It'll be totally different. So when we look at the actuality. The actuality is you haven't moved away from this presence awareness.

Without that concept. Without knowing that you are. This is this. See I've got to use concepts to even give you some idea. But what you are. Or how you are. Or why you are. Right here and now. You've never moved away from it. So if you take that concept of time off it. It makes it a lot easier. Take the obscurations off it. The thoughts and things that's blocking it. There's much more clarity there. And what that life essence is. It is light. Energy is light. That's what Christ told you. I am the light of the world. People thought he was talking about himself. But what is that light?

That essence of the is. Is energy. It lights up the world. It's the same with you and me. What world could you see if that light of energy wasn't functioning through you? You've got any things to work out in the mind. And they can be worked out. The mind works about it. Mathematics and things like that. But the answer to life is this immediacy. You are already that life. What can you add to it? What can you take away from it? Nothing but concepts that discriminate it. That make it seemingly appear other than what it is. Investigate this me and see how that me comes about.

It's a thought you learn. When you first learn words you told your little Johnny or little Billy. And you learnt words from your parents. I am. The basic knowing. I am. Not I was. Not I will be. But I am-ness. Am-ness is a sense of presence. The being-ness. And not good enough. I am Bob. The parents told me I'm Bob. And then I look out there and I get the capacity to read. And I go that doesn't fit Bob. So that's not me. Now there's become a me and a not me. Because I see something that I can't relate it to this conceptual image I've got of it.

If I'm not related to the conceptual image, what is it? It's just like me. This is the essence I've got of myself. It just is. It's principles. It's principles. It's the sense of presence. This is right now. And that chair, that flower, that world, everything out there is is. That is. Not was. Not will be. So we learnt these words and that's when our problems came about. Because we put, you can't do much with this I or me. What can you do with it? I, I or me? Nothing. So we put concepts on it. I'm Bob. And that's not Bob then. I'm this and it's not that.

I put labels on the other things. And so we put concepts or words on it. Words on everything. And we try and grasp our true nature, this I-ness, with a concept. Into what we've understood or what we reckon. I'm Bob. I'm Australian. I'm a good fella. I'm happy. I'm feeling. I'm sad. I'm with all these feelings, thoughts and images. Jealous, envy, angry, greedy. All these concepts are put on. And the seeming discrimination now becomes a kind of a, you know, a kind of a, you know, a kind of a, you know, a kind of a, you know, a kind of a, you know, a kind of a, you know, let's call it.

And not that that's funny. But anyway, it's brake life. That's fine. But let's do it and let's work fewer than that. ul is unhappy or it's fearful and anxious and all this room. All different concepts. Take these concepts to be real and I think well I've got to work out this concept in the mind. Right here and now show me your mind. Is there anything solid and substantial that you can say this is mind? Without a thought at all, there is no such thing as mind. I can't give something in their shape, form or anything at all until a thought comes up. So all the mind is is thought and if I was the mind which particular thought?

Well that's easy I am this I thought. This is me. Because I believed it all these years. But now I might question it and see what am I without a thought. There's no real concept you can put on it. Because I am this essence or is-ness or right here and now-ness. I can put all those concepts on and they're not too bad because I'm not loading it down with appearances. But this what we call now-ness is ever fresh. If it's timeless, it's got no duration, when does it begin? It's beginning right now. When is it ending? It's ending right now. Because there's no time, no duration, how can I make it last?

I can't. It's ever fresh. Presence awareness. Presence awareness. There's only this, nothing else. So look into it and see. I'll go into that and go into it again that the me is false. You're seeing right now and you're hearing right now. Ask yourself a simple question. Well can my eyes tell, does my eye tell me I see? Realise my eye is not saying anything at all. It's got no words, no concepts. It is an instrument through which the seeing is happening. So how can I see? How can I say anything about it if it's not translated by the word or the concept? I see. The same with hearing.

Hearing is not saying, ears not saying listen to this, listen to that. They can't say anything. So the eye is not saying I see, the ears not saying I hear. Concepts come up, I see, I see, and those concepts are me, Bob, the conceptual image. Thinks it has the capacity of seeing and hearing. So it needs to be questioned. Can the thought I see, see? As long as the thought can't see, I can't hear. Can the thought I hear, hear? Can the thought I can't hear? The thought I am awareness. I put all these concepts in the talk on you and I say I'm telling you the truth.

The thought I'm aware, is that your awareness? No, but you know you're not unaware at the moment. You know you're not unseeing at the moment. You know you're not unhearing. These things are going on naturally and spontaneously, which we put the eye on to discriminate. So you know that? If you are conscious about it, you are aware. Now this brings up this thought I see, I know I can't hear. Can the thought be aware, the thought I can't hear? Can the thought I'm aware, but not be aware? Is it the thought I choose, or am I the choice? These are the concepts that are really in conflict with the level of consciousness in all of this.

I can't hear but I can't see, I can't be aware, I can't choose, I can't be aware, but I can't breathe, I can't do anything at all. What am I going to do then? We're in the process of analysing. What can I do, what do I do? I'll go back to the previous thing. You know, it's like a not disappearing if I can't do any of these things. That amness or beingness is still there so I must be that. And take the life essence out of that body, as I say, you've got a corpse, can't see, can't hear, can't be aware. All those organs that are being utilised by that life essence that's functioning through them, the eyes, the ears, the mouth, the heart, the lungs, are not a bit of good without that energy, that life energy going through it.

Like a computer is no good without the energy going through it, the life essence, the power. And that power is what you call God. The omnipotence, the total power, the omniscience, the total intelligence, omnipresence, the total presence, the beingness, unendingness, everything that's happening in that is what you are. It's up to each and every one of us to investigate. Some have. And it's resonated with them and they'll tell you about it. Others are still having problems. And always come back to that. There's a thought or a concept or an image there. You'll never ever grasp it with the mind. Because the mind is a fiction.

So get into it. It's like about the awareness. Recognising the words. Isn't that something about the mind? Because I just went through a shift where it was the mind trying to grasp it. work with it, investigate, and now it's the awareness that's doing the recognition of it. It's going into a different place. That's the life, very life of you or the awareness that's forming those concepts, forming with you to use that pattern through the brain and that to express through and all the rest of it. It's that life essence or awareness that's doing everything. Yeah. It's all there is. It's like it's been absorbed into the awareness, not from the head.

Well, it's the awareness, the vibration that's forming it in the first place. Right, yeah, okay. But in that particular pattern, you know, the brain is utilizing, it forms these words concepts, which we all use similar words, but all whatever is necessary for that pattern. That's enabling you to breathe right now. It's beating your heart, showing you hearing and fingernails. All those cells suffuse with that innate intelligence. It's changing in your body right now. It's growing new skin cells, liver cells, heart cells, all of it. It's the one essence that's patterning, shaping, forming, experiencing, patterning everything. We're good. The mind not investigation. There's no such thing.

Oh, yeah, okay. How can it be? The thinking about. Yeah. Yeah, okay. It's still a very useful instrument. It's still utilized, but no, that's what I mean. And also, if you think about, because just before the meeting started, I don't know who said it, but I heard some conversation that, you know, that the next retreat is going to take you to the next level, or it's going to be next level towards what Bob is saying. Like Bob is saying nonsense. The next level is going to be the real thing. The good question is, where are the levels? All the levels are in the mind. So what you were just saying that, you know, everything just happens.

The mind is also part of that vibrating energy. So I would not have any, absolutely any judgment towards someone who would have the belief like this, because you're not the doer of the belief. It's just belief. It's just showing up. And it's an innocent belief. But to actually see that any belief and expectation that next retreat is going to be next level towards what Bob is teaching, because he is a beginner or basic, or is going to take a person to a next level, because it's the person that is gradually getting more and more, is a belief, totally innocent thought appearing in the mind. And what Bob is showing is non-conceptual awareness.

It's something that is beyond the mind which contains any beliefs. So there is no next level, unless you want to go to the mind and of course imagine all that, all that things and persons getting it. Because then this is the point when if you really hear what he's saying, the seeking ends. There is no need for anything more. And when the seeking ends and repeatedly stepping back from that imagination happens, it reveals itself, the levels. There is just ever fresh, moment to moment, ever fresh, this appearance of the universe like in the flashes, because it's not that suddenly the body dies and the dream ends.

It's happening but it's being recognized. So nothing wrong in hopes and expectations for future, nothing wrong with looking for some better teachers or anything like that. It's just part of the functioning. But recognizing the futility, and what it is, is a conceptual ideas in the head, may actually be a breakthrough, may be of help. Because you're going to just keep getting disappointed by going this path. You can go through another hundred teachers and believe that the next retreat or next teacher will be the next level or will be better. But it's still happening in conceptualizing, in the imagination. So dropping off right now doesn't mean that you're not going to find yourself, in the next retreat.

Well, you may. Who knows where the consciousness will take itself for the adventure, not for the seeking. But, yeah, it was just to add to what you were saying, that when Bob was... And I seriously, the heater is so loud, I have no idea where it came from. I just heard a couple of people agreeing that, yeah, yeah, that is going to be it. So it just felt like clarifying because it is a trap. It is a mind trap. Believing in things like this can just keep you stuck in the seeking. You're going to be seeking paths forever. It's not necessary. Hearing, seeing, tasting, touching, smelling.

Yeah? And the me can't experience any of that. Zero. What's also happening is there's understanding. And it's not the me that's understanding. Yeah. Yeah. So when... Just understand. Yeah. Yeah. And it's... So it's not the me that's listening. It's not the me that's hearing. Yeah. It's not the me that's being spoken to. And it's not the me that is responding. Yeah? Mm-hmm. That's what Bob means by relax. Relax. It just happens. Yeah. And we go, yeah, but I'm moving my... I'm moving my hand. That's the me believing that it's moving its hand. And it's not. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. If you ask me to move my hand, if you said, do that, and I did that, it's not the me that heard that.

Mm-hmm. Yeah. Okay. It's not the me that's responding to that. Mm-hmm. Yeah? That's what Bob says at the beginning of the meeting. I'm not talking to any mind or... Yeah. Yeah. I'm talking to that I am that I am. Yeah. Or that presence or awareness that I am. And that's where it can get really tricky because we've believed for so long that I'm doing this. It seemed that... But who's doing it? Mm-hmm. Life. It's just come bubbling up from awareness. Yeah. It's just, you can't even like, you can't even name it. Don't put it on the set line. Yeah. Yeah. It's just, you know, it's just...

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. You know, it's just... It's, I really think I'm not that kind of person you actually are in a way. Yeah. Yeah. Mm-hmm-hmm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And it's, I don't have any expectations of how much it's always like... Yeah. It's not taking you seriously. Yeah. Yeah. You know- Yeah. It's... If you want to put, kind of have a concept on it... It's who you really are. It's who and what you really are. Or you thought... shuts down better think of me choosing to shut down anyway so it's just yeah I mean event eventually the questions stop coming up they don't need to anymore you're a kid you might believe there's a boogeyman under the bed and you're scared to get out of bed yeah kids do yeah you're scared to get out until eventually we get old enough and mature enough to know there's not a boogeyman on the bed then that fear just dissolves doesn't it because it's seen it's known it's not real so that that dissolves questions come up and eventually that is all pointers get used when the pointers seen or what's being pointed at is seen that pointer is dropped you don't even consider it again it's just dropped I can't hear you I just want to thank you because you said something which was very useful for me for self inquiry you said just give your whole body to awareness yeah just now yes and I could do the exact thing which is undoing actually I just allow yeah and I could feel things happening wonderful because because I step back so I was forward when I was forward step forward because I was in the same level with those stuff I couldn't feel them but when I step back I could see them too so I count it as a progress yeah watch out with the ideas of progress too yeah watch out with the ideas of progress too yeah progress of progress of progress in process of dropping the words are difficult when you said before allow what does that mean everybody should appreciate it let it be and let it be physical here you go outside out there never look in the sky you might see don't get a big one take too long it's more clear there you go inside one day never look in the sky and might see just don't get a big one take too long with a small clean bit of small cloud and watch it, you'll see it expand and just dissipate into space.

Dissolves. That's thoughts like that. Plane goes up in the sky and there's some advert which sky writing goes on. All those words are in the sky. How long do they last? And where do they go? Thank you. I'll just add one thing to what Bob was saying. Today it was quite a bit about, well its importance is always quite a bit about words. When we learn and the learning process creates that, I mean labeling things out of existence, out of unknown when we learn what things are. And then we study about them and then we learn even more about them and then we distinguish whatever it is, you know, farming potato, music or mathematics, whatever it is.

We feed it with constant quality attention which is the life essence. And I think that's the most important thing. As we put that life essence or attention into it, it starts becoming more and more diverse and more detailed and more real. That's how things become real. Like Bob is saying, the cloud on the sky, it really just shows up and it dissolves. Nothing holds it there. The thought in the mind, it comes and it goes and nothing holds it there. But the identity, the self-identity got so much investment, so much of the precious life. So much of the precious life essence or attention going and feeding it and realizing it or making it real, creating, like believing it into existence that it almost feels solid.

There's nothing solid about it because if we look at that identity, the components of the identity changed. Like my self-evaluation when I was five years old as a girl and my self-evaluation if there would be any. I used to be a girl and I used to be a boy and I used to be a girl. The thing is that the self-evaluation over time, you know, as the time goes on, the self-evaluation over time, throughout the time, it's constantly changing. The height and the intelligence and even the intellect, all of those things are constantly changing. But the whole unit is constantly fed with the belief that it is a separate unit.

It doesn't change. It feels like there is clouds or thoughts, singular thoughts, they're passing, like every brick, every cell in the body is changed, but the body as a unit seems to be still, even though it's changing. So that same thing happens with the identity. It just got so much attention and as it got attention, as it became believed as a unit, it started and it became a center. It started getting even more constant supply of attention because everything now is related to that center or me. So actually realizing that that movement of translating everything as relevant to me, that very habit of having of everything being relevant to me, about me, is just a habit pattern, movement of energy that keeps the unit, the seeming unit, the personal image solid, just because it got so much of that precious life essence that holds it into.

Seeing that whole new life, that new life, that new life, that new life, that new life, that new life, that movement from the point when you, Heyman, said, when you step back and you actually relax back to the field of awareness and see that translation of that self-obsession going on within that field of knowing, that could be really liberating because then you realize you are the knowing of it. You're not it. This is just an object that just a movement happening in the field of space of knowing. And all the self-obsession, all the selfing, it's obviously not me if I am the witness of it somehow.

And it's just a habit and seeing it as an object in consciousness and without judgment, because if I have judgment and I want to stop it and I want to push it down and I want to do something about it, well, obviously I'm just feeding it again with a lot of attention, a lot of life essence. I'm making it important. I'm making it important. I'm making it important. I'm making it important. I'm making it important and giving importance to things, make, make them real. So suddenly, yeah, I don't know if realizing it kind of is, is, is a double sword world because realizing is kind of waking up from it and making real at the same time.

That's my English. But yeah, just, it could be just maybe a helpful pointer to... So, I allow things. I feel, feel second. Maybe... or more, body try to take me back to itself or mind. I don't know if it's mind or body, but something try to really try to stop it and vacuum the attention inside. It's not me. I just want to, I don't want to do anything. I don't want anything. I just let it be. I just allow it to be. But something wants to stop the process. And my guess is that, because that stuff, I don't know if it's body or mind or together, they don't want to lose themselves.

So they try to struggle to take their life back, as an entity, which I give them energy for all my life. 99.9999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999iann. 99. 99% and now suddenly I just let them go. They don't want to go. Does it make sense? I mean, have you had the same feeling and experience in inquiry? Yeah, see, wherever the attention goes, it just goes where it goes, you know. It's none of your business where is the attention going. If you are the field of awareness allowing everything as it is, then whether the attention goes to the body or attention goes anywhere else, why would you care? Inquiry anymore. I cannot let things be and allow anymore.

I go back again. Who goes back? What are you relating to when you say, well, I may do it? Have a look at that. You know, Bob, when attention gets inside the body and mind, it's consumed by body and mind. It's seemingly very much. It's very solid. There's nothing solid now. When you look into it, go right into where you're failing. That's okay. It's perfect. Well, look, if the attention is moving, wherever the attention is moving, and you are a pure field of allowing, nothing else, just allowing, and attention wants to move to the body, and there is a story that attention shouldn't be in the body because self-inquiry stops.

Now, you are a pure field of allowing. You allow. You allow attention to go where it goes. You allow the thought to comment whatever it comments, and you don't go on board with any of it. You are still staying as a field of allowing, as you said. You know, you're just allowing. Attention can go wherever. You're not controlling your attention because the one who wants to control the attention is also the mind. So now you see the attention floating freely, and you see someone, some thought saying, I have to direct my attention. I want my attention to be there and not there. That is a thought.

That is just another thought. But my mind failed. I said, let me come here and discuss it. Wonderful. And see how it goes. But I did not control anything. Fantastic. That's great. I just let it go. I just become person. It's just a belief. You can't become person. It's impossible. When that comes up, you think there's something there. It's real, didn't you say? Became person, yeah. Something there, apparently. It seems very real because, as you say, it's been reinforced for almost 100% of your life. So it seems solid and real. But it's not really. But what is the point in it? I mean, I need to experience that.

I really feel that this, that, that... What would give you that information? Experience. Isn't it the innate intelligence you already are? Is it a little I or me going to experience it? That's the same intelligence as bringing up the old habit pattern arise of drawing back into it again. Try and find the one that thinks doing all this. It's not allowing anymore. Allow is as opposed to try. Keep trying until you're exhausted. If you want to try, then you'll be a long, long time. No, he says he doesn't want to try. He just keeps allowing. And then what happens? Yes, you don't want to try.

And that's fantastic. You keep allowing. So you allow the self-inquiry, the attention go wherever. And then the attention is sucked back in the body. You're also allowing that. And you are a person again. And you're allowing that. And then another sort of self-inquiry will come. And attention will go. And you're allowing that. You know, if you allow everything, including the moments of being a person, but you are allowing it fully. There is no resistance to being a person at all. Consciousness wants to be a person. I am the consciousness and I'm allowing it. I'm still consciousness. Person is just an image. Pat, you said that generally.

Yes. I did not disallow. That's fantastic. That's it. Including fail and unsuccessful. That's it. That's it. Because what is that matter that I should be successful in? That's another idea. Bravo. Yeah. Bravo. That's it. If you have no problem with attention going back to the body or to the mind, you're the one with no problem. And attention is in the body and the mind. So there is no person. The person is imagined. But so what? Let attention imagine what it wants. But I'm in the right track. Yeah. Yeah, you are. The moment, Sini Sargadatta says, the moment you recognize that nothing is wrong anymore, you stop seeking because you're already a finder.

You know, nothing is wrong. Whether the attention wants to imagine being a body or being the mind or being whatever else, I don't care. You know, I am the field of allowing, as you say. I'm just the field of non-doing or I'm nothing. So as a nothing, I don't do or oppose anything, including the identification. So if identification happens, I don't care. So it doesn't happen. And if it happens, I still don't care because I'm not it. So it's not me identifying. It's just some sort of an identification. I don't care whether the identification is happening or not. But I am still the field of space-like awareness or nothingness or emptiness, which allows everything, including anger, including judgment, including attention coming back, including failure, totally everything.

So I have no problem. Nothing is wrong. Oh, you already know it, which is wonderful. And applying it, which is wonderful. Are you allowing your breathing and your heart breathing to happen? Yeah. The same way, in the same way. Yes, that's right. Exactly the same way. I have no other choice. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So in that openness that will, whatever needs to happen will happen. It's not going to. Oh, yeah. Right. Right. I mean, you know, I sit in a self-inquiry and I decide to allow. See what happened? Or decide to allow. Or doing the allowing. But what happened there? Did you suddenly see what happened there?

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. You're sitting in it, then but. Who? As soon as the but or who, you're off on another track. You're looking in the mind again. Full stop. Yeah, because where do you find the answer on who? Like, what answer are you expecting when you ask the question, who is doing it? See, when you ask questions, you start looking for the answer. A moment ago, you had no questions. There was no problem. No questions. And then the question arises and takes you back to the mind. Oh, yeah, who is it? Consciousness? Awareness? What is the consciousness? Awareness. And you start imagining that as an object.

And then, of course, the whole thing is, which is allowed. Okay? You allow it. Allow even that. Allow everything. Even the, you know, little inner dialogue, asking questions, going back and forth. It's okay. It's just part of the play. If that is allowed and you are that field of allowing, you just laugh because it's not really. It's not touching. You are the field of allowing. And that one is just the children playing in the sand or mud or wherever, doing thoughts, playing. No problem. I would like to know how sure you know that it can not happen. You want to believe it. Is there any movement or change in this universe?

Could it have, if it wasn't happening, it couldn't be. Everything happens as it happens. Yeah. He wanted to be sure that the self identity will fall away for sure, 100%. Well, it definitely will when the body dies. Of course. So it won't fall away because it never existed. Never existed. Look at that. See how solid or substantial it is. Who is this one that's allowing it? Who wants it to stop? Isn't there a subtle image? Amidst me or I? Realize that's just happening by itself. And also, I totally recognize your questions, because I had the question also, and when I heard Bob saying, when I was coming here five or six years ago, that once it grabs you, once the consciousness got hold of you, it will burn you like this pail of cotton, that when you put the matchstick on it, it will melt, because you can't put down the fire.

It will be like a salt dolly that you put it in the water and it will dissolve. It will dissolve you. The consciousness is already taking care of it. You don't have to worry about that. And oh my God, it was like a honey. It was like a nice, cool breeze, refreshing belief for me. And it was very, very helpful to believe that, okay, since I started having first insights and I started understanding certain pointers, now it will inevitably take me all the way home, which means it will take me all the way out of the pickle. It will take me out of the picture, because the me is illusion.

So it will finish me off. It will kill me off as a separate entity. It was a helpful thing to hear. Is that true? From the perspective I am now, I'm being a bitch. I don't know. It was good for me to hear at some point. But it was many, many others who heard it too, and they're still seeking. So really, the question, you know, wanting to have that sort of an insurance, or that sort of a helpful belief that it grabs you already, it will take you home. Yeah, hold on to it if it gives you a peace. Yes, if it gives you a peace of mind, if it puts you at rest and gives you some sort of a solace.

Yeah, consciousness will do whatever it will do. If it finds it helpful, it will. But ultimate truth is, it's going to take who and where? The recognition is only in that moment that whatever is, is already as it should be and as it is. Including the person believing that it stands in the way. It's just as it is. When you recognize it, including the identifications, it's all good, as it is, as it should be, as the consciousness of God wants it. That's it, because in that recognition, there is no resistance, even to identification. And the identification has no stance, has no foundation. Yeah. And there's no foundation to stay.

Well, these things don't have to be adopted, per se. Like, for me, it's more like somebody says something like the bad thing, and then it pops up, and it's really knocking something else out of its place. And then it's forgotten about, you know, so it's not adopted, it's not held onto, it's not revisited as a belief at all. It's really maybe believed in for a moment or two, perhaps, I don't know. And then, like, a story around it just taking away some other delusion. And then, like, the opposite faces of the cliff, sometimes you go to one just to negate the other. And I don't think too much more about it, because all that sort of thinking as well.

But, yeah, sometimes it just clears something else up. There's one more thing which Nisargadatta pointed out, and it could be helpful also. He says the only thing that is required in the whole journey is the earnestness. And you have it. You have it fully. And I had it fully also. Like, being commitment, a real commitment, being really earnest, being really, like, putting everything. It was the only thing in the world for me that was important. Yeah, there was a point where relationship was important, and of course the seeking was half of the attention here, half there, and then the career was important. All that stuff worked themselves out, and I ended up with one single desire.

And that one single desire got 100% of attention. And that's when Nisargadatta is talking about the earnestness of commitment, full commitment. Whether it really is any sort of cause and effect between that, I would question also, because it's really not a me that is doing anything. It's the consciousness just playing out this way. But you do have that quality. So if that's the only quality that would ever be required according to Nisargadatta, you have it, so you're okay. You're going to be fine. I don't know. I don't know what is more interesting than this. Nothing. What can capture your attention and interest more than this?

TV, for instance. Then this comes back. If you have interest in other stuff, why? There you go. Do we have something? You know, history shows us a lot of people, thousands, millions of people, I don't know, hundreds of thousands of people, super rich. They're suicidal, they kill each other, they're involved in drugs, stuff like that. What other proof we still need to show us, convince us that there is no happiness in object? There is no happiness in object. People, please understand this. Beautiful. Yeah. Beautiful. So true. Yeah. In fact, a sense of separation. That's when it becomes objective. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That was the most important thing to me.

When you talk about the sense of separation, it's what it is. You don't want to negate your beingness right now, do you? It's the most, certainly the most important thing. So naturally, and you don't even have to think about it, you're taking that next breath, expanding and contracting that heart, so utilize the air, and moving the energy around the body so you can use that brain to come back with responses and words. Who's doing any of that? Somebody or someone. No. But you see what you're doing subtly. As soon as I said that, looking for the answer in the mind. Trying to grasp with the concept.

Just drop it. Don't say anything at all. Or see it this way, you know, if you really want to have an answer. When Terry was answering to Adrian, saying, you know, moving the hand up and down. Who is doing it? Is it me doing it? Or is it, what is doing it? It's not me because me is a fiction. If you really want to know who is doing it, look closely and you will figure out that the whole universe is doing it. Absolutely every atom in the whole universe is doing it. If you don't see the connection, just look deeper. You know, the oxygen that he is breathing, that transports the blood, that moves the tendons, that grows the muscles.

The nutrients that he eats that enable that hand to exist. The brain that has to have certain nutrients that exist, that can exercise the command. Why that command? And why in that position? It's because of every second of his life that he lived till now. Because of his parents and parents of his parents and the forests and the country and everything. Well, I did want my answer. It's not me. Yes. Well, ask yourself. It's happening. That's what I say. Ask yourself. Can you? There's feeling. You realize when you look at the concept, but there is a feeling. There is a feeling, but there is no ownership for it.

Now, take a step back. There is no ownership for it. Take a stance as being the claiming itself. The being itself. Yes. If you care. Every time, there's every time too, there's a big tendency to put things into blocks and continuous solid blocks, which is again, you know, a divine concept. So, it's really any moment in which there's just this and then there's any moment in which there's some kind of filter or description or, you know, defining going on. It's just those. And so, apparently, I think there's a good video clip by Rupert Spearer on awakening isn't an event. So, I think it's very clarifying.

But yeah, there's not somebody who gets to a certain place. So, there's in some ways like here, there's not been a belief or around I've got this great edge to be enlightened. There's just been a move to do it more than anything else in my life over the last three weeks and a half years. That's it. So, I think that's really, you know, sometimes the urges to watch TV and that's more interesting right now. A lot of the time, actually. Sometimes there's a noticing, oh, that's helping blocks stuff drop that tell you what you have been really useful. And there's an urge to experience a lot of business, probably more than most people, many people around.

But that's only at those moments. And there's no thought about it. Someone said, I'm not going to do it. I'm not going to do it. I'm going to do it. And I said, oh, why are you here? Well, I'm not somewhere else. That's all I can truly say. And other times, yeah, I've stopped beating myself up watching telly. That's cool. But there was no preference for it to be cool. They say, oh, you've made progress. That's great, isn't it? It's like, well, there's no response to that. There's no thought about that being anything particular coming out. There was just that experience of watching telly. There was that experience of noticing that the self-flagellation didn't happen.

There might be a little bit of mind stuff like, oh, that is cool. That is progress. Oh, that is progress. That is progress. That is progress. And then there's feeling a bit stink because that progress got a bit of a bit of attraction, you know. It was just, yeah, little wee contents and little wee moments. And they're defined or they're not. Can I say something on television? Yeah. You know, television is, which is to say, there are lies to religion. There are lies to religion. And so television is, it's the best tool to keep the mind feeding itself and feeding itself and feeding itself. And television just keeps people in a circle that they've been before and just repeated and repeated and repeated.

Make habits. Give them belief systems, things like that, things like that, brainwashing, you know. Yeah, it is. Yeah, not always. But it's the best thing to do in life. Right now it's therapy. Yeah. It depends on how much eyeing is going on, and it depends on how much letting go or how much taking on is happening. So it's all contextual. There are people, look, there are people who actually think more than when they switch on the TV, before they switch on the TV. I know people like this. They have some sort of ADHD, or they have just normal sort of average mind that is all over the shop all the time, constantly imagining things, rehearsing discussions in their head, or planning another discussion.

I shouldn't have told them this. You know, just being completely in the madness of their own thoughts. They switch on the TV to have a little break of their own madness, because there is only one singular voice talking some nonsense, history channel or whatever, or news channel or whatever. But it's just, you know, speed of thinking is much higher than speed of talking. So some people who have particularly nuisance of the brains, and yeah, believe me, that's absolute torture. They're on the verge of the suicide with that type of a mind that is constantly chatting a few different stories at the time and a few different sounds.

The television, as Tony says, it may be actually a therapy, because if not for television, they go for alcohol, or they go for drugs, or they go for sex or shopping or anything to distract themselves from their own inner voices. Because they are so mad. If for you television is brainwash, for me also, because yeah, I don't really need much of the television, because it's quiet here. So why would I induce some noise? You know, I may occasionally watch some nice old movie, black and white movie or something we watch with Bob, or maybe some talk about nature. But generally, I would not distract that beautiful silence with the noise that they offer, advertisements and stuff.

But this is this example. But I know there are people, for who that noise of the TV and that brainwash of the TV is much less of the torture than their own setup, you know, the own programming of their own software they're in the mind. Yeah, originally for me, like for years, I was on avoidance and then there's one Kat talks about. The third one for me is right now it's just total therapy. It's like, see scenarios, scenarios, scenarios, like, oh my God, there's that bullshit in the head that is clarified. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And then it drops and it eases and it moves out of my life.

So it's just like psychology or self-inquiry or any kind of just growing awareness of something, which doesn't have to be there for something to shift. Sometimes I just shift without any clue what was going on, you know. Here, there just seems to be, because this brain is very conceptual, it seems it sees the concrete scenarios and then it makes connections. And then it's like, then the connections are made, how this is happening in the life. and how it feels and the contractions that are happening and it's noticed the body's going this and then it goes that when it's self-help stuff because the channels are opened and people are sharing and things are getting lighter.

And it's like, oh my God, this is how it's playing in the life on TV, which is the true life right now in the moment, is the life in the life. It's all true. There's no separation between whatever's showing up right now, whether it's on a screen in front of you or that's not less real than what happened yesterday. And out of the park. But for some reason it just happens at the same time to show what's going on as it moves on out, as it becomes less of a hook in this setup. That's just another way in which TV shows up in the life.

And thank you for putting it up because the tendency is always to have a strong judgment why one way or the other something is good or bad. This is good or this is bad. Drugs are good or bad. TV is good or bad. No. It depends on the context. And yes, you could actually watch the movie and see how the character goes in the mind and have realisation. Who knows? Everything is part of that consciousness expressing, including the television and drugs and everything else. Yeah, and Tony, when she... Well, yeah, it's fantastic to hear. You can gain so much of the insight by watching Netflix.

And it took a few months of watching it before I realised that's what it was even doing for me. And then I started beating myself up for doing it so much. And it still comes in. And yes, there is this... You see, in the real-life situation, people are not that honest. They're not that open. They're not that exposed. When you watch the reality show or you watch some sort of a TV show or whatever, or even a drama, everything is kind of more exposed. So you have kind of even a deeper insight into the nature of consciousness, how it works. It is meant to be an entertainment, but everything can be used.

Sometimes it seems... It's not quite well, so it's a thing in your face quite often. So... From the point of view of statistics, unusage or more than usage television, unuse or misuse people's minds more than use people's minds? How much does your mind get taken up by what the other people are doing? That's the real question that made this. You know, I watch television when it's turned off. Because... You know, I just look at the screen and... Oh, yes. Oh, this is brilliant. Beautiful. Watch the mind when it's turned off. Yes. Yes. Well, television shows us that we are content of the show. But if someone came into the room, Rupert Spires said that as well, that they ask you, instead of watching what's in the show, watch the screen.

What are you going to do? You already watch the screen. So... Because I want to more comfortably watch the screen, so I turn off the TV. And I just watch the screen. And I remember that I'm the screen. It doesn't matter what happened in the screen. It's not going to hurt the screen. Beautiful. Like a reflection in the mirror. Same thing. Exactly. Exactly. When you say before there's something still there, and seeing it and doing it, then who's doing it? Well, have a look at the larger scale. Who or what is rolling the Earth around the sun? Who's forming the planets and moving around, imploding them, exploding them?

Who formed the space where the raw steam is contained in? Think you're going to find the answer somewhere? Go for it. Go for it. It's really short. The best thing I think I've heard in a long time today come out of you, Tony. And it was really short. It just made me laugh. I'm still laughing. I'm still laughing. I'm still laughing. I've heard you say something. Why are you here? Because I'm not someone else. Just... It's always been like that for me with the non-duality. Not with other parts of my life. I'm just... Yeah. It's just beautiful. Yeah. She's got a lot of absolutely brilliant things.

It's true. Of course it is. Yeah. Absolutely brilliant. But it's not a stock standard answer. It's true. It's just that no other thoughts arise. And I always look... Like whenever I say anything, I always check. And I might be filtered by the time it comes out, but I never bother with it. It's true. It's true. It's true. It's true. but I never bother with stop anything because it's just wasted bloody time that's what I loved about it we normally go into a story as to if someone asks you that question we normally go into a story as to why I'm here but it's so much more truthful to just say because I'm not somewhere else yeah she's got a lot of pearls like this it's because when I look there is nothing in there so insightful and so honest and so straight to the point it's like some people say to me I haven't seen them for a while so what have you been doing?

and I just look at them straight faced and just say just breathing in and out what about you? and it just spins people out it all comes to mind when you say that that's what's happening it's just breathing in and out I'm not enough in that space for that I do tend to come up with all the weird answers but I loved that when you said that I said oh okay thank you thanks Bob