Sailor Bob - nonduality 11 Aug 2019 - Resonate with That

Okay, so we start from telling our names. I'm Catalina. We start off with the same thing, which we say over and over and over again until it really resonates or registers. And you'll realise you won't need anything other than that. You realise that the seeker is what you're seeking. And you realise what they say is true. It's all in one essence. It's appearing, patterning, shaping, forming and expressing as everything. And you can't be anything other than that. So I can't teach you anything. I can't tell you anything. Understand that. All I do is point toward and ask you to look to where we point. And I ask you to look to where we point.

You're pointing to see for yourself. Because when you recognise that nobody can teach you anything or nobody can tell you anything because they're all the same expressions, patterns, shapes and forms as what you are. But the essence of all those patterns, shapes and forms is the one truth, the one reality. If you like to use that term God, you can use it. There again, that's where the trap comes. It tells you in the Bible, in the beginning was the Word. The word was with God, the word was God. That's all that God is, is a word, a label we put on it. And you look into all the traditions and all the religions and you see how many different names they've got for God.

All things were made by him, by the word. There was nothing made that was made without the word. And have a look, look at all these things around you. What are they if you haven't got the word or the name and form or the label? In Hinduism for instance they call it Sat-Shit-Ananda, Nama-Rupa, the five factors. Sat is existence, shit is consciousness, Ananda is being or loving to be. And the other two, Nama-Rupa, are the name and form. And they tell you that the name and form are Maya. They're illusionary, they're only a pattern. But Sat is existence. Anyone not existing right now, you will realise, no I'm existing, I'm here, I'm here, I'm now, I'm existing.

Anyone who's not conscious or unaware right now, no I'm not unaware, I'm aware, I'm a conscious. Anyone who is not happy to be, and everybody's happened to be, you wouldn't be dead for quids would you? Somebody would come along and wanted to get rid of you right now, you'd protest a little bit about it. So you see you're already that. But we go behind the eight ball and what we've taken to believe we are this person, persona, coming from persona, the mask, the conceptual image we've got, which we've taken to believe we are this person, persona, coming from persona, the mask, the conceptual image we've got, which we've picked up with words and you weren't born with any words.

You didn't learn any words until you were about two, two and a half when the capacity of reason developed in you. Go to that and you realise you've already been that. That's the Mahavika or the great mantra. I am that. Everything is that. And innately you already know that because say that's the chair, that's the carpet, that's you, that's me, that's the tree, that's the flower, that's space, that's this, that's the other. Everything is that, pure essence, the sameness, which we put the labels, tree, flower, essence, you, me and everything else, the labels or the words. And look at that, see that the word is not the thing.

Take the word water, can you drink the word? Can you swim in the word? Will you drown in the word? You can't. Take the word fire, does it burn your mouth if you speak it? Can you cook with the word? Can you eat yourself? You can't. So what's this word, you, me, I or God or anything else except nothing but a label. And if you went into Bunnings or Meyers or David Jones or somewhere to buy something, a shirt or a chair or something, you came out with the word, the label on it you wouldn't be too happy. So that's what we understand. Every word you've ever spoken or ever likely to speak has been a quantity, not a word, a word.

Every word you've ever spoken or ever likely to speak has been a quality, not a word. Every word you've ever spoken or ever likely to speak has been a quality, picked up along the way. You were not born with any words. The first two years of your life were two and a half or somewhere around that age. You didn't have any words. But you were breathing, your heart was beating, hair and fingernails were growing, foods being digested, the livingness, the life was going on, patterning, shaping, forming and expressing. And you didn't have any words until you learnt them from your parents. So this is what we're told all along in all the great traditions.

Basically they tell you the same thing. The Hebrews said Hear O Israel, the Lord thy God is one God. There is nothing other, no thing other than the one. The Muslims will tell you there is no God but God. Allah is his name. The label, patent, paper, form is gone. Buddhas will tell you it's non-conceptual, ever-fresh presence awareness. Just this, nothing else. And without a concept, without the word, isn't there that ever-fresh presence awareness with each and one of you right now? If you're not labelling to some past experience, what is going on right now, the livingness, the breathing, the heart beating, hair and fingernails going, you don't need any words for any of those things.

So you see, you can't get away from it. Christianity had to tell you it's omnipotent. Omnipotent. Omnipresence, omnipotence, omniscience. Omnipotence, what's that? One power. Omni means total, total power. Not thought power, mind power, higher power or God power. It's the one power. They put those labels on to divide it, separate it and set us apart from everything else. And it went to the word person before. Where did that come from in ancient Latin language? I think it was persona, the mask. And the mask we've got about us is a conceptual image. An image made up of concepts, thoughts, ideas, images. And it's a dead image at that because we're basing it on the past events, experiences and conditioning.

Omniscience, total intelligence. Not your intellects with two and two and four and this and that and that. But intelligence. The same intelligence. Look out there in nature and see that the earth is rolling around the sun. The seasons are coming and going. The tides coming in and out. Tsunamis, ice ages, everything's fiddling, shaping and forming in that innate intelligence. And it's all a vibrating pattern of energy, a seeming somewhat of a movement. You can never or have never or never will be anything other than that. But we've taken on this persona, this conceptual image and taken it to be real. So you see, when you're searching for something, you're searching for something.

Trying to become something. And have a look at that word becoming. It's not being. Being is the concept of some other time that you will become something. But have a look at that again. You call God, if you believe in a God, the Supreme Being. And you call yourself a human being. What happens if you take that label human off and take the label supreme off? And try and separate the being in this room without any labels. And you'll realise that's being a chair, that's being a carpet. That's being a chair. That's being a carpet. That's being the person next to you. It's being yourself.

Being the room, the mirror, the table, everything in it. The outside, it's bringing the trees, the flowers. There is only that beingness. Not becoming. That's presence awareness. As again, they call it, but a non-conceptual, ever fresh presence awareness. Awareness of this here-ness and now-ness. The timeless, spontaneous actuality. Reality. And that's what realising is. Not trying to become realised, but making, looking, investigating and seeing the reality of everything. The actual reality. And notice what is the real about it. And the false cannot stand up to investigation. All these conceptual images and false, that's why we need to investigate and see for ourselves. That's what we're asking you to do.

Have a look at these things and see for yourself. Investigate. Who can investigate? Well, the person cannot do anything. That mask, that conceptual image can't do anything. Any activities are going on. As I say, I pointed out the earth rolling around, the sun, the seasons coming and going. Look out there in nature. See how it's happening. Then come back and recognise in yourself. It's that same intelligence energy that's beating your heart right now. It's breathing you. You're thinking about the next breath you're taking or the next heartbeat. It's growing your hair and your fingernails. It's digesting your food. It's replacing cells in your body. All spontaneously and naturally.

But we're putting our whole conceptual image onto the labels. And relating it to this believed in entity, this so-called person, which we've broken down into an individual. But individual means undivided. Universal means it's totality again. But we're dividing everything with the word. We think we are this body, mind, this entity. We'll investigate that. Am I this body? Innately you know you're not the body. Because don't you say my body. Don't you say my house, my car, my coat. And you know you're not the house, the car or the coat. So maybe you're not the body either if you investigate it. And when you look at it and investigate it, you realise this body is made up of elements.

Made of earth, fire. Energy, water, space. My mind's going on and I can't think of the words even. Made up of all these elements. Well let's try and separate you from the air. Stop breathing. See how long you'd last without that body. So this believed in body is not separate from the air, that element. Take the water out of your body. Your body's 80% water. You wouldn't last long without the water. Get off the earth if you can. Take the body temperature, the fire. You'd soon get hypothermia and die. Get off the earth if you can. You'd get out of space. A little bit of investigating you see you can't.

You're not separate from those elements at all. And all of those elements can be broken down to subatomic particles into pure energy. Energy is an activity. A movement. A somewhat of a vibration. And it is somewhat of a vibration because it has no beginning to it. And no ending to it. It's like a throb or a pulsation. They call it soma. Other labels they've got for it in other texts and things like that. We look into these things and we see we're not this pattern, shape and form or this person we believe we are. And the person, so the person from that point of view is not the reality.

It's not the reality at all. It's only a conceptual image. The same with the mind. Say my mind. Again, who's mind is it? You say it's my mind. You know actually that you are not the mind. There's somebody that or something, some seeming thing that has this thing called a mind. And that's what it is. Some seeming thing. It's not the person. If you believe you are the mind, show me the mind. What do you think mind is? Can you give me any shape, form or beginning or end to this mind? You see it has no such thing as a beginning or end. All mind is, is thought.

Concepts. Concepts are mental constructs. And if you were the thought, which particular thought would you be? There is that sense of presence. The knowing that you are translates and expresses through the mind as the thought I am. You would be that thought. And if you were that thought, you'd be frightened of letting it go. Because it would be the end of you. If you believe you are the thought, you believe you are the mind, that's all mind is, is thought or thinking. Then you drop the thinking, that would be the end of you. But you gladly give it up every night when you go to sleep.

Gladly. So you realise you are not the thinking. You are not the body. You are not the mind. You are that life essence which is throbbing, pulsating, vibrating just as it is throughout this manifestation. You are the universe. Constantly in the ever fresh presence awareness. It's not unaware. Anybody unaware right in this moment? And you look and say no. I'm not unaware. If you are not unaware, you must be aware. But we put that concept awareness on it. What we think awareness is, a concept of consciousness. And try and fit it to that pattern, shape and form and it doesn't work. We love it. We are locked into the concept.

So that's what we say. Whether you understand it or not, start from the fact that you are already that. That's a fact. You cannot negate your beingness. You cannot say I am not. But start with the being I am-ness without putting any concepts around it. Or trying to translate it into words, thoughts, feelings, emotions or ideas. Which the word or the sensations are not the reality. The reality is that vibrating essence in which these patterns, shapes and forms take place. And recognise that. Resonate with that. Because it will be a natural resonation. When you hear something that is the truth, there's a resonation with it right in your medley.

That fits. And there's a sense of ease comes about with that. Resonation. The Buddha called it a cognising emptiness. An emptiness. That cognises. But we think the cognising is the emptiness. We are that cognising of the emptiness. But it's not that at all. It's the emptiness itself. That suffused with that innate intelligence is doing the cognising. And he made the statement then that emptiness is form. Meaning that all these patterns, shapes and forms are that emptiness. Vibrating into different patterns, shapes and forms. He turned it round the other way and said the form can't be anything other than the emptiness. So that's all it is.

It's that emptiness that's vibrating and expressing as pattern, shape and form. And that pattern you call you is the pattern through which it's expressing from. And as I said in the beginning was the word. When did you begin? Go back and investigate that and you'll say I was born. But can any one of you actually remember your birth? You look at it and say no I can't remember my actual birth. I was told I was born at such and such a date and I set that in my mind and believe it. But I can't actually remember it. And that's quite understandable. How could you remember it when you didn't have any words?

What can you say without the word? Nothing at all. Even to say I am not or I am is a word. That existence was there then without the word. When did you begin? When did you begin? You began at birth. You didn't begin until you learnt the word. When did you begin? Well go back to your parents and have a look and see how these things come about. And that pattern, shape and form which was your father, that life essence was expressing through that pattern as your father. As a so-called pattern in me, a human being, your father. The life essence, the breathing, the heart beating, the energy going through it, the chi, the prana, the air that was breathing, enabled in that pattern through the innate intelligence of the pattern, a little microscopic particle called a sperm to form.

You can't see it with your naked eye. And that little pattern, shape and form we considered a blob of glue was a fuse with an innate intelligence. It knew what to do. And the same in the mother. That animating life essence in your mother enabled in that pattern an egg or an ovum to form. You can't see it with your naked eye. But that ovum was suffused with intelligence. It knew what to do. It attached itself to the wall of the uterus. It wasn't floating around as an aimless blob. It knew what to do. And the sperm suffused with intelligence knew what to do. It went to the ovum.

It knew to go to the ovum and to penetrate the ovum. And that's what happened. And in doing that, that's what happened then. That cell doubled, doubled again, on the essence again, the prana, the C and the N and the genes, doubled that cell and the little embryo, the little fetus began to form, which is you today. What were you doing about it then? You couldn't do a thing about it because your brain wasn't even formed then. How could you do anything? Intelligence knew what to do, the same as it's knowing what to do in you today. But we've lost sight of that. We've taken on the idea when that capacity of reasoning came about at about two, two and a half, and some people might have been a bit older, a bit younger, but it was a useful capacity.

But it's a self-destructive capacity also because it's a vibration. When that capacity came around, your parents around, you're fussing around, you're telling your little Johnny or your little Billy or little Jenny or this, that, Leanna, and with the capacity of reasoning you learnt words like I or me, and you're related to I am, I am Johnny, I am a good boy, or they tell me I'm a bad boy, or I had an unhappy childhood, I'm abused, all these concepts are added onto it, a form, a mental or a constructive, a mental image or a conceptual image of what I believe myself to be. That's what happened.

I'm Bob, the Australian, I'm a good fellow, not so good, I've had a bad childhood or a good childhood, I was abused or none of it, or I've got, I can't think of half the terms now, I've got a million of them I can think of. But a conceptual image is formed, and the energy of belief goes in, it becomes seemingly real. And everything becomes relative to that image. So it's a problem of relationship, relative too. I like it or I don't like it, it's good or bad. And relationship, relativity, you've got to understand is duality. And we're talking about non-duality. And when you look at it and investigate it, you'll see there is absolutely no duality in non-duality.

Duality is an appearance. It's a pattern, shape and form. What the Buddhists tell you again, they say manifestation is mire. Manifestation is all pattern, shape and form, mire. Mire is illusion. It's an illusionary pattern, shape and form. Shapes and forms are mire. They're illusion. And illusion is a phenomenal manifestation. This manifestation is a phenomenal manifestation. Grab your dictionary and look up the word phenomena. And the definition of phenomena is that which appears to be. So it's all appearing. We're appearing to be solid and substantial. Seemingly appearing. Seemingly. That life expression is expressing through all these appearances. And we're taking the pattern, shapes and forms, the vibrations and the words and forms and the feelings and sensations to be real.

But it's all appearance. Look behind you at the end of the room now, there's a mirror there. And if you look at that mirror closer, you'll see it's full of things. Full of appearances. Images. Images. You can't say they're not there. But go up to the mirror and try and grab an image out of the mirror. All you'll do is grab the mirror. You can't say they're not there. But you can't say they are there, though they appear to be. When this conceptual image you have about yourself, that's all you really is, is a conceptual image. You can't say you're not there. But look into it and see.

Try something substantial and solid that you think that you are. And you realise you can't pin anything anywhere. You can say, this is what I am. This is me. But can you negate that beingness? Can you say, I am not? You can say it as loudly and as long as you like. But the very fact that you're able to say it tells you that you're telling yourself some bullshit. Because you are. And how it's expressing, the way it's expressing in the persona, the conceptual image, that is the false idea that you're expressing as the reality, the actual. You can't negate it at all. So it expresses all sorts of concepts, ideas, words, labels.

All those images we've got about ourselves are now dead images. What can you say right about this moment, fresh in you? What image have you got about yourself right now? I just ask you that. Didn't you have to look and try and put, I'm here or not, and this is bullshit he's talking or something like that? You've got to put a concept on it immediately. But in that pause, what's wrong with right now if I don't think of it? Nothing in there at all. But you haven't disappeared. You haven't fallen apart. There is, without putting the labels on it, a sense of being. A sense of presence.

A knowingness or awareness or a life essence. You can put all those terms on it and each one is expressing the same thing. You can't just say, I am not. Now this image we've got about ourselves is now a dead image because it's based on yesterday's events, experiences and conditioning or way back to when you were born. You've learnt words and this capacity of reasoning is useful. But it's the capacity that these humans have which is more diverse. It's developed. But what it is in other animals, birds and insects. They have different capacities than what we have. A bird has a capacity of seeing. Eyesight that's much better than yours and mine.

It can see better than you and I will ever see. It has a capacity of flying. We can't do that naturally. But through the capacity of reasoning, we build ourselves eyeglasses if our eyes are failing. Binoculars, telescopes and things like that that enable us to see better. And helicopters, balloons, planes, kites and things like that that enable us to fly. So the capacity of reasoning is very useful. But you've got to understand this reasoning, this thinking is a dualistic functioning. Have a look at your thoughts and see how thoughts are going on. They're a vibration, they're a movement of energy. And every thought is dualistic.

You see the good, bad, pleasant, painful, happy, sad, loving, hating, positive, negative. Look at your mind and see if it functions any other way than any interrelated pairs of opposites. And the boundaries you're putting on yourself, the labels are the good, the bad, the pleasant, the painful, happy. You're not putting labels on it. Where are you going to stop? We've bound ourselves in a conceptual image. And it's a dead image at that because it's based on past events and experiences. Without labels on the past, how can you say it's good, how can you say it's bad? Shakespeare told you that a few hundred years ago when he said there's nothing either good or bad, but thinking makes it so.

And have a look at that and investigate it and see if it's right or not. When you investigate it, you'll see that's right. What can I say about this? I mightn't like it. Well, how can I say I don't like it? Because I've experienced it before and I don't like the sensations that come about from that experience. And I put dislike or unhappiness or hatred or guilt, shame. And something comes up that I enjoy and I like it. I've had these experiences before, they're good and I want more of them. Now have a look at your mind and see how it's functioning. Nisargadatta told you the same thing when he said nothing can trouble you.

And he meant exactly that. There's nothing at all, no thing that can trouble you at all. Excepting your own imagination. Not my imagination or your imagination or somebody else's imagination. It's your own imagination, what you are imagining. Break that word imagination down to image in. Imagine. And realise that's all we're doing. We're creating image. Imagine. Mental images and putting it on ourselves and making this conceptual image something unreal. Conceptual image. That's all it is. The ego or the self-saint is an image. Well, isn't that an image from the past? The parents told me they'll reinforce it day in and day out. The schools reinforced it when I went to school.

Everybody in society, everybody around is reinforcing it. And because I've taken on that habit pattern, I'm reinforcing it myself. Every day. Every moment of the day. Until something moves me on, takes me to a place where I hear the truth and resonate with it and I start looking a bit further along. Imagination. And what's the imagination? Anticipation. Imagine is memory, past. And anticipation and imagination is future. Time. Is there such a thing as time? You'll say yes, there's a past and a future. It's investigated. And when you have a look at that, you'll see it's different. Ask yourself this. Is there a past if I don't think about it?

I'll pause a thought for a moment. What can I say without a thought? Can I say it's past or future? Is or is not? You can't say anything at all about it without bringing the thought in it. But there's immediacy. This immediacy, this functioning going on, breathing, heart beating, all these things are still happening. Well, I'm not giving hardly even recognising. But the functioning is there until I relate it to something and bring the images in. But then you'll say I was in the past. I'll say to you, try and live yesterday. That is the past. Try and live last week. That's the past. If you're in the past, you realise you can't go back and live a moment ago.

You can't tell me what you thought a minute ago now unless you are recalling it. If you're not recalling it and bringing it into this present, it's gone for good. That's all the past is, something that you bring into this present moment and relate to it. But you can't go back and live it again. The same with the future. You can anticipate and imagine what you're going to do when you leave here or what your next thought's going to be. But it's not the actual. It's an anticipation. It's an anticipation, imagination, a conceptual image. So when you recognise that, you realise you've never moved away from this immediacy.

This is the actual. Just blink your eyes just then. You just took a breath just then. Your heart's breathing just thin just right now. Isn't it ever fresh and every now? And the thought's coming up. I don't like this. I don't want to hear this. Well, this is good. This resonates. So you see, everything is happening in this immediacy. And it's not time. It's time bound. It's got no duration to it. That's all a time is a duration, a beginning, a middle and an end. It's got no ocean to it unless you're fixating on it and keeping it there. It's constantly transient. And that's what the Buddha's telling you.

This manifestation is Maya. It's this immediacy and it's transient. It's ever changing. And look at that. And look at this body you call you. You think, oh, I'm here and I'm this body. But you recognize it's not the same body you walked into this room with. You mightn't realize that. But it's changing. There are thousands of cells dying in it right at this moment when you really look into it and investigate. Thousands of them. And being replaced. And each cell that's in that body is an intelligent cell that knows what to do. A liver cell is not going to be a heart cell. A skin cell is not going to be a liver cell.

And all the other cells, I can't think of the words at the moment. I go in, I'm getting old and I'm losing my memory. So, but it's constantly transient, constantly changing. But what we do, we fixate it on the dead image. And try and go with that. Try and make it right. Try and become something. And I told you about becoming before. When I'm talking about becoming is not being. This conceptual image is what we call mind. But when you realize that all of this is just a mind, all mind is a thought, feeling, emotion, concepts. And there is no such thing as mind when you look into it.

If you're not putting that label, concepts, ideas and images, that's what expresses, seemingly happens in the immediacy, which have no duration whatsoever, constantly transient, constantly changing, unless they're fixated on. And that's held there by a concept. Another saying they say in the scriptures, be utterly awake. You're awake right now. Or aware right now. That's another term for awakeness. They put the terms awareness and consciousness on and think it's some mystical thing. But if it's the one essence, the one essence, everything is that. And that is always never corrupted or contaminated. The pattern, shapes and forms that it expresses through. Though they're appearing to be solid, substantial and real, they can be pulled apart and looked at and recognized as the pattern through which you're expressing your spirit for.

They're very useful. And you wouldn't want to let that body go. But if you know the truth about it, and know you're not bound by it, it'd be much easier to let it express in its fullness. Without putting the brakes on it, and the boundaries we put upon it, and limitations we put upon it, when we're putting the word or the label on it. The ideas and concepts will come up. Instead of, oh, I shouldn't think this, or I don't want to think this. Instead of trying to alter them, modify them, correct them, left as is. And you'll see this when you look back at some of the things.

Like people like Einstein and people like that who invented some things, worked out many useful things, utilizing the mind. The mind's not using them, it's utilizing the mind. They'll say, I worked on this for years, or days, or weeks, looking into it, investigating, trying to find the answer to the mind. Never could. One night I went to sleep, woke up the next morning, and there it was. And you've had a taste of that yourself throughout your life. When you drop the conceptualizing and ideation and working it out, things happen. They happen if they're allowed to happen. Seeing that everything is as it is. What is, is means this immediacy, this totality right here and now.

It's part of the verb to be. Am-ness, is-ness, being-ness. That is, what is means unaltered, unmodified, uncorrected. What could alter it, modify it, or correct it? Only a thought, a concept, or an image, or an idea. So the great reality is that thought-free, ever-fresh reality, the actuality. How do this, we get locked into this pattern where we are a separate entity? Well, you didn't have any words when you were born. For the first two years of your life, you didn't have any words. While you were being formed in the womb, when you came out of the womb, look at a little child before it reaches the age of two and a half or anywhere.

It's seeing, it's breathing, heart's beating, tasting, touching, smelling, feeling, not putting any labels on it. If it's hungry, it'll cry. If something hurts, it'll cry. If it's happy, it'll laugh. You know, but the reasoning starts and starts to look around. And then it begins, the reasoning starts and it begins to learn words. And the only place it can learn words from is through its parents when they're fussing around all the time. And they've never questioned this. They've learnt words through it. They've got this conceptual image about themselves and saying, you're a little Billy, you're a little Bob, you're this, that and the other. You're a good boy, you're a bad boy.

And you start to learn words like I and me. And what happens then? The reasoning starts and it comes upon, and you realise, I am this little Johnny they're talking about. This is me. I am this Bob. This Bob or Johnny. And I'm the good boy or I'm the bad boy. I'm this and that and the other. And you look out there and when you look out there you see something you can't relate. That's not me. Well, that's not I. When you do that, what is it? You realise it's something that's seemingly separate and apart from you. That's not me. Well, that's not me. And the little child when he sees something that's not I, that's not me, he doesn't know what it is, because they haven't learnt the words for it.

And he feels separate from it. And with that sense of separation comes insecurity. Something he doesn't understand or doesn't know, you're very insecure about it. And when the insecurity comes about, what is it? That's a vulnerability. Well, this can hurt me. This can do something to me I'm not used to. So we've got that taken on that sense of insecurity and vulnerability. And with that comes fear, anxiousness, unhappiness. Depression, guilt, shame. All these other things that come about because of that belief. And our parents reinforce it for us. Our schools reinforce it. Science and everybody around us are reinforcing it. Well, they've never found the answer.

They're getting closer, but they haven't found the exact answer to it yet. Because you won't find the answer in the mind. And the worst thing about it, because it's reinforced all around us, we take it to be the actual being real. And we reinforce it ourselves from then on. But sometimes, something moves within you. You go on a so-called spiritual path because they tell you it's spiritual. And when you investigate that, there is no such thing as spirit. Spirit is the opposite of matter. Matter is the opposite of spirit. And spirit is essence, if you like to put it that way. Matter is the congealed essence.

Just like blood congeals and becomes more substantial. So they're one and the same thing. Different pattern, shapes and forms. But it's all that one essence. Patterning, shaping, forming, and appearing and expressing as you are that. But now I've taken on this label. That's me, Bob. Parents' schools are reinforcing it. I'm reinforcing it myself. Taking it to be real and believing in it. And taking on the sense of fear, vulnerability, unhappiness, guilt and shame, and wanting to come with it. And that's all psychological. Conceptual imaging. Concepts, ideas and thoughts. Mind stuff. That's my mind. That's where we've taken on to be. We said my house, my car.

And when we come about, we call it my mind. You know you're not the house, the car. But when it comes to my mind, you say that's my self. And you're taken to be that personal conceptual image. A personal self. Is there a person? Is there such a thing as a personal self? Because the personal self is this conceptual you've taken to be yourself. It's the ego. The reference point. Or the self-centre. Me. And they tell you in the scriptures, the ones that have understood and recognised, they put it there. And all these great traditions are formed around them. And lost sight of them. And taken.

The tradition they've, some of them have come along and added their concepts and ideas onto it. And convoluted. Made it seemingly hard to get. You've got to do this and got to do that. You've got to become. Not realising it. But beingness can never be becoming. And we've taken that on. And lost sight of it. But go back to the messengers that pointed it out in the first instance. They tell you it all comes from the one essence. And it is that one essence. And you can't be anything other than that. And we've got this conceptual image which we relate to. This which is the self-centre.

The ego. Or what's the other thing? Again. Reference point. Reference point. All the one thing in different labels. Words are a conceptual image. Which we call I or me. So you see from that that me, this conceptual image, is the cause of all my fears, my anxieties, my stress, my unhappiness. It's the cause. Me. And the fears, the anxiety, the stress, the guilt, are the effects of the cause. That's all that so-called karma is. Is cause and effect. And cause and effect is seemingly real in the manifestation. And it is. It does happen that way. But the actual cause and effect to me. The psychological.

Me as being the cause and the effects, the psychological suffering I'm talking about. All I've got to do is ask the simple question. Can there be an effect? Can there be this fear, anxiety and stress if I'm not relating to a cause? What are you fearful about if there's not some basic cause there to cause there to make? What are you unhappy about if you're not related to some thing that happened before? What are you guilty or shameful of? It's not related to a cause. So all my fears, fears, anxiety and stress are problems of relationship. Relativity. Me and the other. Cause and effect. Relativity is dualism.

And we've moved away from the basic essence. There's only the one essence that's patterning, shaping, forming and expressing as everything. And that is what every so-called thing is. That is what you are. Are and isn't the same thing. That is what I am. That's the same thing again. I am this, this, this. But it's not was or will be. It's always a meaning, see. That's all the ego is. A conceptual image. And they tell you in the scriptures, you've got to get rid of this ego, you've got to kill it, stuff it under the carpet, jump on it, stamp on it, do whatever you can to get rid of it.

But the basic ones that tell you the truth will say it is a fiction. It's a conceptual image that the energy of belief has gone into. And it wasn't there in the first place. And a little bit of investigation, it'll see it's false again, it won't be there. And as I say, you wouldn't be looking at this if you haven't got the taste of it. There's a little bit more to find, to look at. And you've gone along for years and you've gone along with these religious traditions. Got some use out of them, but something's come along and told you there's a little bit more to this than what I understand.

That innate intelligence is a fiction. It's the cognising emptiness. The Buddha told you it's emptiness that's doing the cognising. It's not you that's cognising, it's not me that's cognising. And the emptiness is vibrating into all these patterns and shapes and forms. And the emptiness is the form. Emptiness of itself can't express as anything it do. So what's it do? You say, I told you in the womb it formed this body. And it's this body that's being utilised to express these concepts and ideas. If the life essence wasn't expressing through that and what the brains and the other organs and things, the apparatus within it are enabled to recognise or label or utilise them, you'd be a corpse, you'd be the emptiness.

You'd be that space in space. Which is the energy which everything appears in and the pure intelligence is empty. But without expressing through patterns and forms patterns and shapes, well there'd be nothing ever happens. There'd be a cognising of the form of the emptiness. And the form can be nothing other than emptiness. That's how it's utilised. That's how it's being utilised. But it's still never been anything other than the emptiness. And you have never been anything other than that. And everything is that. And that's just the label. Take the label, that off it even, try and negate your beingness. You can't. Recognising the ego is a fiction?

What are you going to relate to? Relate more and more to this basic essence. Rest in it more and more. Abide as that. Rest in it. And if the thoughts, concepts and ideas which are like clouds, which seemingly block the sun out and obscuring it, when the cloud is not covering the sun, what is there? The basic space is much clearer, it's much more full of light of the sun. The clarity is there. The emptiness is there. And which enable thoughts which are like clouds to form. And these thoughts can be the clear, natural thoughts. Even though a dark cloud might come up, it'll get rid of itself by dropping itself down as rain or some other pattern, shape and form.

And so the cloud of deep thought is something that needs to be utilised or it'll be utilised. But life will be as it always is. And as is, it'll be ever fresh and ever new. Clear and empty. Without any clouds, without any thoughts, basically right here and now. Isn't there immediately a basic sense of well-being there? Well-being. Another word for well-being is being well. As Nisargadatta says, being well. There's nothing wrong anymore in that moment. Is there anything wrong without a thought? Is there anything right without a thought? Isn't it wonderful or great without a thought? Can't be. It just is. Without even that word is.

There is an absolute knowingness, beingness, existingness, consciousness, awareness, not unaware, that you can't get rid of. You can't separate. All that can ever be done to it, it can be seemingly obscured. And that obscuration couldn't happen even without it. So everything is that, no matter how it appears. But we've taken in, been taken in by the appearance and suffer because of the appearance. See, the appearance is that which is seemingly so. It's only seemingly. And you're going to be locked into the seemingly. So you're going to recognise, drop it, let it go, do it. It won't be you that will do it. Nature will have it there.

And as they say, another saying, and a beautiful saying is, let it rest in its uncontrived singularity. It's only a singularity. It never was or never will be or never could be anything other than that singularity. Singularity. Hear, O Israel, the Lord thy God is one God. It's a singularity. There is no God but God. Allah is his name. It's omnipresence, omnipotence, omniscience, the one God, if you like to use that term. It's always and never been that. We've lost, been lost in the concepts. Drop the concepts. You can utilise the concepts that they come up, that innate intelligence, not you as the person, but that innate intelligence will be utilised.

Just the same as we can create things or form things, work things out with the mind. But the concepts, mind, when we believe it, it uses us. It's that which tells us I'm no good, I'm fearful. Have a look at that. Something comes up and I like it. How do you know? Well, I've experienced this before and it's good. And we don't want to let the good things go. We want to keep them there. Not realising it's transient, no matter how much you love them, how much you want to keep them there. It's going to change. They're going to change. They're going to dry, die.

They're going to move on. They're going to change their lifestyles. Well, they're not going to do it. It'll seem to happen. And separate, new life, but they'll move on. And it can't be stopped. You don't want them to go, though. We want to keep the good things there and get rid of the bad. So we don't want the good things to go. So what do we do? We resist it. We don't want this to go, so we keep it there. We resist it. Try our hardest with our conceptual mind to keep it there. We fight with it. Don't you realise that any resistance you are in, resistance is conflict.

You are in conflict with it. You are fighting with it. You're stressing about it. So you're in conflict. And that conflict makes you uneasy, unhappy and anxious. A word for uneasy? A word for uneasiness, unhappiness, it's all disease. So resistance, conflict and disease is going on us all the time and while we're doing it. Something comes up and I don't like it. This thing I don't like. I've got to get rid of this. We jump on it and try and get rid of it. How do we try and get rid of it? By pushing it out of the road, struggling with it, resisting again. Again resistance.

Again conflict. Again disease. This is going on all our lives, resistance, conflict and disease. Hear this and resonate with it, investigate it and you realise when you go back and look at yourself you've had taste of it throughout your life. When the thoughts and feelings and emotions have ceased for a little while and there's been that sense of wellbeing, being well. There. Because there's vibration that moves on and we focus into the old again. Instead of recognising the old is just... a pattern, shape and form and appearance and not giving it any creativity, any reality. Realising being a vibration it will move on like everything in this manifestation is only spontaneous.

Like your thoughts. Your thoughts don't last. Only when you focus on them and keep them there. But where are yesterday's thoughts now? You realise they're gone. And they're gone until you recall them. And if you can't remember or recall them you'll never get them back again. Where are the thoughts you had five minutes ago? They're gone. You might be able to recall them and bring them back. Where are the thoughts about tomorrow? Are they happening right now? You can imagine and anticipate they are but the actuality is not. The anticipation and imagination is going right now. So you've never moved away from this immediacy. So all these thoughts and concepts were relating to this conceptual image.

That's all they are. Concepts, words, ideas, images. Which we bound into the words. We've encaged ourselves in a pattern of concepts. Locked ourselves in it. Like a bird in a cage. Been there for 10, 20 years maybe. Open the door of that cage. It's not going to fly out immediately because it doesn't even remember that there's an opening there. Until it hops around and starts investigating into it. Oh shit, the door's open. There's a door there that's open. Treads on it. The edge. Yes, there's space there. I can get out of it. It'll walk out and get out. And then start to fly and be free again.

We've got this cage of concepts there that's not even there. And locked into it all our lives. And 99.9% of the population will drag you back into it. And you know that. You listen to this stuff, hear it, and you'll go back out there into the world. What does the world do? If you're not stabilised, unless it'll drag you back into it again. What happens then? You go along in that belief in it, trying to find the answer in the mind, doing this meditation, repeating this mantra, reading this book. What will the next guru or great one tell me? This and that manner. Not really.

All I've got to do, I had a taste of it. How did I get that taste? I got that taste in the immediacy when the thought wasn't there. Investigate again. And re-cognise. We call it the cognising emptiness. Not that we are cognising emptiness, but the emptiness of doing the cognising. And emptiness is form. It's that cognising emptiness that's forming all these pattern shapes. The form can't be anything other than emptiness. Resonate with that. And you're going to then, you can come back. Not a matter of coming back, but you'll drop all the conception. Where the people dragged you back into it again, you'll say that's not so.

Until you stabilise in that essence. And in that stabilisation, they won't be able to drag you out of that. The confidence that you are that will be naturally there. It'll be the reality, the actuality. So instead of them dragging you out of it, they'll start to recognise what's being said. There's something you might say and saying. And seeing that you're not going along with this crap anymore. Instead of them trying to drag you out of it, you'll start to drag them out of it without even trying. Because they'll see something in you that they will resonate with. They'll hear it and it'll resonate with you.

Just the same as you're hearing something resonate. And they'll ask you and enquire. And that's how this carries on. And that's how it's carried on from the so-called first so-called guru. It wasn't a guru. It was just somebody that understood and passed it on to somebody else who was able to understand it in its actuality. And over the years it's got corrupted by the convolutions that have gone on. It's always been the same. And the ones that have passed it on, instead of seeing for what they are, just messengers, we've worshipped the messenger. Set the messenger up as saint, saviour, seers, and gods, and worshipped the messenger.

And in that worshipping of the messenger we've lost sight of the message. And it is the message that is the actuality. It is the reality. In the beginning was the word. The word was God. Everything was made by the word. There's nothing made without the word. We learnt words. And God is the label we put on those words. And there are hundreds of different names for God. Every tradition will have a different name for so-called God. But it's just a name or a word. See that that ego is a fiction. And you are that. Nobody's ever going to do it for you. That's what we point to.

And I ask you to look in those directions, in that direction. Some of you have seen it and saw it a long way. And it's up to you to pass it on. It's our authority. Tell us how you got people that don't recognize it but hear something that you say, and are different from what I hear it, and resonate with it. And you might hear something fresh in you that will take you more deeply in it. But that's what you're here for. The way you are. When this resonates with you, don't you want to shout it from the house top? I'm going to tell everybody.

You come out, you'll fall on your head, it doesn't matter, but you're still trying. You can't stop it from coming out. What's stopping it? Wow, that's just this quietness and emptiness in response to what has been shared. Yeah. Yeah, there's, there doesn't, I think it's just, that's what's unfolding in this now. And then another now might come with that explosion or wanting to share that. If I'm honest, it's quite quiet and empty. And that would be more real. That's right. Wouldn't you just say, I already am that, and shut up? Yeah. And drop back into your silence. Exactly, yeah. If you know that. So I kind of like focus right now on my back or my head.

Like my head's throwing a recognition this morning that there's been a little bit, I didn't really think like why that was until this morning. But I thought, oh, well, the weather's changed. So there's probably more pain because it's colder. Because there's more pain, there's more thought. And so, I mean, it's, if you look at it like that, there's as much control over the weather as there is over the content or frequency of thought. And if you look at it even closer, thoughts or the weather or the pain is just a dead image anyway. So if I sit here with that in mind, then there is nothing.

It's just not. Well, he's coming up. I see you to point out something, you know. The door's not well with the back or wherever it is. Just relax. Try and relax. What's this going to tell me? Going to give me a solution to it or tell me to take me somewhere or see what happens with it? See how bad it can really get. Or it's just a conceptual image. If the energy of belief's going in, it might drop away altogether. Every thought, feeling, and emotion that comes up is telling you something. Who's it happening to and why? Just leave it. Try to work it out in the mind because the mind, you'll never get the answer in the mind.

And you should understand that already. Because looking for a long time in the mind to find the answer, you never found it. Why? Because the nature of the mind is to vibrate. It'll always vibrate. It'll always vibrate in the opposite. And the ancients tell you that. They say the peace, if you won't find the answer in the mind, the peace is when the mind is not. And they call that the peace that passes all understanding. Meaning you'll never understand it with the mind. If you could understand it with a mental thing, it would be a mental thing. But know that the background of all the conceptualisation is peace.

It's stillness. It's silence. Give it a chance to come out. And if there are things blocking it in the way, like the pain and all the rest of it, see how that expresses itself. It'll bring about healings if necessary or ways of easing it or things to do. I've got pain. I hold age and constantly all the time. You know. But where before there would be screaming at it, screaming at it. I'll do what I can to ease it. If it doesn't ease, it doesn't ease. But it's just telling me the ageing is going on. And if I do something that's wrong or I exercise too much or not enough, it'll let me know at some time.

And my feelings and emotions will still come up. But if they're not fixated on it and let them be free in their own way, they'll move along like everything else. Constantly transit, constantly changing. Let the beingness be. Being is constantly transient. Just like your body. Thousands of cells dying in it right now. So those new cells that are coming through will probably express in different ways. Tell you something that the old cells were working on trying to fixate and couldn't. And they died in the trying, you know. And seeing what comes up next. You'll be moved to go to somebody or hear something, a doctor or so on.

Do what you can. So every thought, feeling and emotion is an expression. If that life wasn't there, could you have a thought? Could you have a feeling? Could you have an emotion? Without that life essence, you couldn't see, hear, taste, touch, smell, anything. That body would be a corpse. The corpse has got eyes, ears, nose, mouth, lungs, kidneys. All these organs and glands in it. But without that life essence, that body's a corpse. They're all dead. They're not a bit of good. So what's functioning? In that functioning is the life itself. Without that life, it's just an instrument or a corpse. Just like a computer, it's got all that information in it.

No power in it, no information can come out of it. No life in that body, no information can come out of it. So recognise what you are is the life. It's animating, patterning, shaping and forming, and then vibrating, expressing as that body. And then you get the taste that it's expressing all these other bodies. There's nothing superior out there to you, nothing inferior to you out there. Everything is that. And that can be utilised or let go of. So be open to it and see where it takes you. Let it rest in its uncontrived spontaneity. It's all spontaneous. Contriving means putting some concept or idea or image on, a thought.

But realise that the thoughts, feelings and emotions are transient. They're constantly changing like your cells. Emptiness is form. Form is nothing but the emptiness. When that essence of the form, or whatever you like to call it, the silence, the stillness or the basic, that form is not there, what's there? The essence disappears. It's the basic. Space, silence and stillness in which everything appears. And you are that. Any thought that's trying to do the investigation is not the investigation, is it? It's just a thought, runner, masking, an investigation. Does that make sense? Yes. It's just another thought. A thought that's very trying, you're bringing up a thought.

I'm thinking about that. Let the thought arise. If it arises, what's your next thought? Then we'll say. Just wait and see if a thought comes up then. Just relax into it. Don't try it. Just keep trying to think of a response. Yeah. Trying to think. Let that go too. See what the response is. If I'm fixing my thought on a mantra... Speak up. He can't hear you. If I fix my thought on one mantra, say om namah shivaya. I can't continue for a longer time. I can only continue for a certain period of time. And again, I get away from the thought and I have to pull back.

But I can't fixate on that particular thought for a long time. What is the reason for that? Well, what's the reason for that? Because the thought is no substance. Can the cloud, though it appears in the sky, is it fixated on the sky or the sun? What does the sun do? The sun continues to shine. The sun continues to shine. And it's the sun that's formed the cloud in the first place. Because it evaporates water. The water rises and the radiance of the sun, it condenses and forms a cloud. Now that cloud will hang around for a while. And the sun, the sun goes in where the wind goes.

It'll cool it down and bring it down as rain. Or ice or snow or whatever. But it's constantly changing. Now, where are yesterday's thoughts? They're fixated on the thought. And as I said before, in some of these great inventions and things like that, they fixate it, try to work it out. And all of a sudden they gave up and went to sleep, let it go. And in that sort of hiatus when there was a pause, nothing there, the innate intelligence got rid of all that crap that was blocking it and showed the answer. And the next time you woke up, the answer came of itself or their activity.

Try that out to see if it works. Because we try to fixate on something, the nature of it is to change. See that yesterday's thoughts are gone, last week's thoughts are gone. They can be recalled, some of them, but a lot of them can't be. And they're dead. So while we're relating to thought, dead thought is a dead image. Static, insubstantial, no substance. What's happening there? Have you stopped reading? Have you stopped seeing? Have you stopped hearing? Tasting, touching, smelling, the functioning is going on. But if you're not latching into the thought, which are corrupting it and hiding it, or just letting it be in the spontaneous and right thoughts will come up, just the same as the seeing, hearing and everything else.

It'll resonate and say, this one, you'll know the truth about this. This is right, this is what needs to be done. This is how it'll happen. Reduce the number of thoughts in the mind. Yes. How to? How to do that. Oh, how to reduce it. Ask yourself, who is this happening to? Well, who is it happening to? Isn't it happening to? Me. Self, he says. To me, isn't it? Well, then you say, well, who is this me? Me is the thought, isn't it? Well, if I'm not yet thinking that thought, what's there without the thought? The number of thoughts keep on increasing. Like, say, now I'm thinking, ah, okay, it's sunny outside.

And suddenly it says, oh, it's cold outside. Or the body temperature changes, or the number of thoughts keep on increasing in different directions. Yeah, of course. Thoughts keep creating, of course. You're looking in the answer, for the answer in the mind. When the mind starts, why, how, when, what, for, but, another thought will come up. And from there, another thought, another thought, and another thought. And what happens at the full stop? Pause the thought. Even if it's only for an instant at the moment, which it will be. What can you say about it then? In that basic essence, you can't say it's good, bad, nothing at all about it.

So, recognizing that. A little bit of a gap before the next thought comes up, isn't it? What do you do with that? Come back and recognize it again and again. And this is something that the activity will come about with it. It needs to be acted on, that's what happens. So you get the habit, instead of going on to the thoughts, keep focusing on them. You get the habit, the pattern of breaking the habit, and seeing what the spontaneous, natural thoughts will come up, or if they'll come up. Or doing what is necessary to do without a thought. But continue to recognize, I'm still breathing.

Heart's still beating. Ear and fingernails, the life essence are still there. And I am that life essence. I'm not the body, I'm not the mind, I'm not these thoughts, I'm not these feelings, I'm not this emotion. I am that essence. Also, there's just another aspect. There's even greater freedom in... Because if you look for freedom or liberation, it's a greater freedom in whether the thoughts are there or the thoughts are not there. I realize myself as unbound nature of pure cognizing emptiness or essence. And the thoughts then, you know, it's like you have the sounds outside, the passing cars, other people talking. They are sounds.

And then you have the narrative going on in the head. Oh, there is sun, or there is something. There is also sound. If you treat them the same way, that they are just passing phenomena, passing clouds, you're not worried about controlling the sounds of the cars outside. So don't be worried about controlling your thoughts inside the head. Just ignore them. And then if they are ignored, you know, because it's a different story when you follow every thought and you get to the story and you identify with it and it becomes heavy and it becomes serious. But if the thoughts are just like clouds in the sky, you leave them as they are.

You don't try to suppress them. Because if you try to suppress them, it's obviously a personal agenda here. There is me who has the preference to have less thoughts than more thoughts. So it means the ego is believed into existence. It's strong and alive. And there is another thing that I wanted to add when Ben was saying, and I know that you don't go there, but it is a danger here when we start realizing that, okay, there is more thoughts. Why? That question why brings up the cause and effect. What is the cause? Oh, the weather is the cause. Okay, now I know. And then it can quieten the mind.

Yeah, okay, I know, I can leave it. But it can actually even aggravate the mind because the reason, like, I'm in pain as well. I had an accident. It's just as epic. And it's very creative, a thousand different elements of pain or whatever. But it creates a mind. It's vacuuming my brain. I'm actually empty. I have no thoughts. I mean, throughout the day, the attention is sucked into the wound and is just burning, itching, stinging, doing whatever it does. And there's no attention left for anything else. My vision got worse. Everything is cut off, even though it's the bad weather. But if I was to say, why is it this way, that is an invitation for a big elaborate story.

And the truth is, why? Because the whole universe is as it is. Why is it cold? Why is it more thoughts or less thoughts? And I know it can pacify the mind. Okay, it is because of the nature of it. Oh, because it's cold. Yeah, end of story. But for some other people, it would be a beginning of the story. Why is it like this? But why else? But why else? And giving it a go and doing an honest contemplation of why, we can actually end up including the whole universe. Even the last speck of dust in the further galaxy and the diet and the weather and the climate and the mood and the hormones and everything else.

So the question why is either we go all the way and we end up with answers that the whole universe is the cause. Or just, okay, question why, that's just another thought. Okay, I have more thoughts. Question why. And answering that question and building up the story. It's just another thought. But the ultimate freedom is to not be bothered whether there is a lot of thoughts or not a lot of thoughts. Because who is bothered? If you recognize yourself like Bob was saying, you know, that there is no I, there is no self, there is no little creature inside that wants to control the world, control the thinking, control other people, just a controller.

If there is no such a thing, it means the life regulates itself. It means the life regulates the amount of thoughts, the amount of sounds, the amount of sights. And let it do it. If that's how the life wants to experience this moment with plenty of thoughts, fine. Who am I to object life? Like I am that life. I would not object myself. And this is when resistance drops off. When you recognize you are life, you are that intelligence or that essence or that consciousness or awareness or whatever the word or God. Then you want to object. You want to object yourself. You want to object the content of this moment.

There won't be any resistance. It is as it is. No matter how painful it gets or whatever is happening, that's how it created that unique moment which will never be the same again. And that's how it can experience it to the fullest. And if it creates someone in this moment who says, yeah, yeah, yeah, wait a minute, but I don't like it. I want something else. That's included. Just see that moment of resistance as just part of the whole landscape. And then it's just a moment and a life playing out. Thoughts, okay, fine. No thoughts, fine. Okay, whatever. There's no one there who has the problem with it.

That's the freedom. When you pause a thought, do you think there's somebody there still? Do you think there's somebody there if you pause a thought, if you stop a thought? It's so vibrating. I want it to be quiet. So to quiet I use this mantra. So I'm thinking that I am thinking that it is. I am like, I am like a mantra. I am like trying to reduce the thoughts. Yeah. You say you're trying to reduce the thought. If you reduce the thought, what's there? I become calmer or I become easy on myself. My thoughts, I am like stopping my thoughts from entering by using the mantra.

Yeah, but you're still thinking there's something there. There's something there, yeah. Yes. What are you, how is that something expressing? Is it a lump in the guts or something or not or a point? Just the thoughts. Like just popping off the thoughts. Okay, yesterday this happened. Today this happened. Tomorrow that will happen. Someone will create this, someone will create that. Okay, I might have to go and ask someone for help or someone need to do this for me, do that for me. Well, do you ever try to look at and see where the thoughts are coming from? Thoughts are coming from the experience? Yeah, but that's the concept.

Where are they actually coming from in the body? If you're thinking. Might be because of pain or the relationship? Go to the experience and check. Go and check. Why? Because you don't know the conceptual answer and yes that's a wise answer. But forget about your mind and your wisdom. Go to experience and really check. Yeah, yeah, you put a label on it. Where is there a feeling or a sensation in your body? Feeling. Feeling. Feeling. Feeling. Where is that feeling like? Usually in the heart. How about now? Because usually it's not an answer. Check now. Yeah. Have a look in the heart and see what you see.

It's a fear. Basically it's not a fear. It's a fear. That's why. In a sense it's a fear. It's a fear. It's a fear. It's a thought. And as soon as you say fear, you want to move away from it. Now, if you think the feeling of fear is in the heart, go into that heart. Have a look in the heart and see where that fear is. See if you can locate it. Actually go into the fear. Confront it. It's because someone has done it. Never mind the thought about it. Go into the actual fear itself. As much of it, as hard as you can, as close as you can.

Put all your energy into it. Feel it. Make it stronger in that hard spot where you said it is. It feels overconfident because of myself. I feel overconfident of myself. That is the fear. Yeah. But have a look at the point where the feeling is happening. Is there something there? I feel that because of the overconfidence, because I can do it or I have that expression, that is where I'm feeling that kind of imbalance in the thought. What does it point to? What does it point to? Point to two things. One. It's like one is a fear. Yeah. We go into the very feeling of it.

Make that feeling worse. Yeah. Put the volume up. Not the whys or wheres or hows about it. Just go into the mind. See what's substantial there. Can you grasp that feeling? Have a look. Go back and where are you looking at that feeling from? Well, if you're looking at the feeling in the heart, it's not here, you know. You're in the mind, right? Yes. You are not the thought. Feel it. Yeah. You're in the mind. You are not the thought. Feel it. Yeah. You are not the thought. You are not the feeling. You are not the feeling. You are not the feeling. You are not the feeling.

You are in the mind, right? Yes. You are not the thought. You are not the feeling, are you? Yeah. He's in the mind and the feeling is in the heart. The feeling is so called down here, not from where you're looking at it from. Now, go back to where you're looking at that from so you can find a point in your head. Past experience is holding onto it. That is where it's telling, okay, this happened because of that, that happened because of this, and those fears is popping on, popping on. See, you're worrying about the content. Yes. No worrying about the content. We're looking for the nature of this.

We're looking for the nature of the content. Yeah. You're looking for the nature of yourself. Yes. Can you find a point in your head anywhere? In the mind. How do you know it's there? You must be looking at that from somewhere else. To say it's there. It's a thought. It's the thought which is, the feeling which is pumping onto it. Go to where you're looking at that from. To say it's a thought, you must be looking at it. See, what Bob is trying to show you, it is, he says, when you answered the question, you said that you're looking out from your mind into your head.

Yes. You're looking out from your head for the feeling of fear. So it means you are in the head looking at the feeling from the mind. But how do you know you are in the head? How do you know that? Because you're looking out from somewhere else. Yeah. Where are you observing to figure out that you are in the head? Where are you looking from to know that you are in the head to look in the heart? Just roughly, you know, just kind of roughly point out to the area from which you are looking to say that I am in the head. That I am in the head looking at my heart.

Okay. Okay. So here. Okay. Great. So now you know from being here, you look in the head and see yourself looking in the heart. How do you get in here? How do you know it's here? Where are you looking from? How do you know? Where are you looking from? I am looking just, I have person to person, like another person is communicating to me, or in front of me. See, that's the concept you've got. You are the person. Now you looked at, you were looking at the person, and then the person is communicating to you. And you are the person. You are the person. You are the person.

You are the person. You are the person. You looked at, you were looking at, it was in the heart, you went into the heart, you were looking at that from somewhere else, you were looking at the head from somebody else, you haven't found a static point anywhere where you can say it was the actuality, have you? No. Well maybe there isn't one. It's exactly as transient, just like your body is changing. Everything out there is transient. And that's the reason I'm like holding onto the thought with one mantra, one thing, so that it's squeezed in, or it's like become busy with that thought. Is that a way to control the mind?

To try and control anything, and just see that there's no static point anywhere. Terry will point it out a bit clearer in here. Terry, you've got the voice. I'm on. What Bob's constantly trying to get you to see is where are you actually looking from? Where is this place of awareness? Where is this place of awareness? Where does it exist? Because as you said, you started with the heart, it's a feeling, and then you transferred to here, and you went, it's thoughts that are aware of the feeling. So now, what is it that's aware of the thoughts? Where is that? It's in the brain. It's in the brain.

It's in the brain. I can look in the brain, and because of my past experience coming up. Good, good. Now, where are you looking from to know that, that it's here? Stop. Where are you looking from to know that it's there? From the eyes. From the eyes. So this, so this is an objective experience, is that what you're saying? Yeah. Okay. So where is the subject? The subject is in the mind. Around we go. What you've got to understand is- Yup. Okay. You'll never find the answer to the mind with mind. Yep. Try, try to wash away blood with blood, it won't happen. I don't think it's the mind.

The mind is the mind. Yes, it is. It's the mind. The mind is the mind. The mind is the mind. It's the mind. The mind is the mind. The mind is the mind. It's the mind. It's the mind. to wash away blood with blood it won't happen it'll be separate from that that you are aware of true absolutely true yeah what you were talking about earlier about wanting to sit with a mantra and wanting to still the mind and wanting to you know quiet the mind down yeah and then and you said something interesting which was and i think bob asked you know what is that me you know and you said it's it's a thought it's a thought yeah okay so can a thought feel can a thought feel it's not feel but it can give it fear or experience can a thought have an experience can a thought feel a thought just a thought and you're a thought aren't you so who gives a ship well what's going on in your head.

Yes. Yes. Other than a thought. Yes. True? Yeah, yeah, true. Yeah? Yeah. So if you're aware of that, where are you aware of that from? To be aware of something, there's gotta be a subject. Subject, object, relationship. Yeah? Yeah. Gotta be separate from something to be aware of it. Yeah. And you've become aware of all this stuff. Where is that located? Where is the subject? The subject is outside me. Outside me? Me, outside me. And what is that? What is that subject? The subject is that fear or that object which is hitting onto me. Like, okay, this, like, take it as a health condition that might go on and I might get, I might get my health affected.

Who cares about that? The subject? Subject. This, me or subject? The subject is bothering me. This. This. This. The subject is affecting me? The subject? The subject is affecting you? Yeah. No, no, no, that's not. It's the object that's affecting you. Yeah. It is. Yeah? It is. It is. It is. It's the object that's affecting you, yeah. But the problem is you need to see that that you that believes it's being affected is also an object. It's not the, it's not the subject. The subject is clean. The subject is clear. The subject doesn't judge, doesn't discriminate. Put that out subject, object. There's a lot of things that can be done about it.

Yeah. And you say, I see. So you've got this conceptual image about yourself that has become the seer. I see the chair, I see the table. The table, chair, or whatever it is become the object. So subject, object are dualism. But they're taking place in the seeing. You're seeing right now before you say. So subject object dualism, but can there be a seer, a subject without seeing? Be a subject without seeing. Can there be a seer? No. Can there be the seen without seeing? No. So the seeing is the actual, subject, object or duality. It's the same with the thinking. Can there be a thinker without thinking?

Can there be a feeling without feeler? So the subject, object or duality, the seeing, the hearing, the tasting, the touching, the smelling, the thinking, they're the actuality. And what has that like? I-N-G, thinking, seeing, happening, being, going on right in their meters. That's the vibration that's going on. But the subject, object are conceptual. They've got no reality whatsoever. And you're trying to attach these feelings and that in your body to a feeler, me, that's trying to get rid of them, a subject, which is not the reality. The thoughts that happen, you are? Yeah. So you're aware of all those thoughts that are, yeah. Who or what is it that is aware of the thoughts that are happening?

It is completely, as I was telling, it's completely, I'm seeing from a view, as an object and subject together. But when he says, I'm the seer, the objects are around me. The objects are just there. I'm seeing it. I can feel it. But I feel that object is myself. It's not other than me. That is why that seer or that attachment gets so much with the object and the self, or the object and the subject, that it is not different from the object. It's not me. It's one and the same. Then why is there fear? Because of the past experience. This happened. That happened. So that object, when it is closer or when it's with me, the experience is adding onto it.

I want to remove the experience. That is where I'm thinking with mantras or something, like I can separate the past experience. Okay, I understand that. But what you're trying to separate from is not real. It's not real, yes. Why would you bother? That's fearing. That's why it is causing that fear. Yeah, but you need to see that. You know intellectually it's not real. Yes. That's where I'm . But experientially you don't. I'm not, yes. But. Because it comes up and you experience it. So the chair is far away, but I'm thinking, oh, it is so close that it can hurt me. That's what is, I know it is far away, but because of the past experience.

The past is dead now. It's not going away, Bob. That's what the problem is. That is there is not gone. It doesn't have to go away. That's the problem. You want it to go away. Yes. Yes. Bob, ask something. If the feeling is there now, not putting that label fear on it, what is it then? Nothing. Fear is not there. Nothing is there yet. Well, there's nothing in there. So it's the label or the image you've got about it, which is the dead image is based on past. How could you call it fear or this, they've had that before in the past. If it's fresh and new, what is it then?

Then it's empty. The fear is, the factor, the form is, it's empty. But the factor is go on popping up and bothering me. That is where is the? Bothering her. The cells, the object and the cell. Oooh! You're in the habitual pattern. It is habitual pattern, yes. Because, because of the experience, which is not going away from the mind and this is like, like if you fear the sugar. I'm already having the sugar taste in the mind, and the taste is gone, but the taste is there in the mind. What is the mind? Thought. Thought. Well, thought can't go away from thought, can it? It can't.

But if we see they're both a thought, what's thought? Again, this is the example I'm giving, like I had the sweet taste. Now have a look, instead of going on the past, what's a thought? Isn't it a mental concept that's happening right now? It is. It's just a mental concept. It is. What's a mental construct? It's a thought. And what's thought? It's a vibration. It's vibration in what we call thought. Now take the label thought off it. What vibration? That's vibration. The heart's vibrating. We're seeing around it. It's all vibration going. What can you call it then without putting a label on it? It's only a thought.

I agree. It's completely only a thought of it, which is vibrating in that mind. And the thought can only be there if you're putting some belief in it. It is. Given it's a thought. It's somewhere else. Well, what's a belief? An unquestioned acceptance of something in the absence of reason. Acceptance of an alleged fact without positive knowledge or proof. Can your belief stand up to that investigation? Yes. It can. Have a look again and see. Test it out. That is where the mind functionality is having to process do something. It is not doing something. Is that a reason? See, you've got all these conceptual patterns.

You've reinforced them so long. It's a habit that's seemingly constant. Now, have a look and see if that habit is the actual one. That's the way it's been functioning. That's the way you believe it to be. Question it. You've come a bit further. We're looking a bit deeper, a bit further away from it now. Go into it. There's no such thing as deeper or further away. But just question your belief and say, who's it happening to? Of course, me. But what's this me? Without the word me, what can you say? It's just an actual happening, an occurrence. And you can't, I've got to use those terms to put some label on it.

If I'm not putting those labels, it's just what is. What is means unaltered, unmodified, uncorrected, no labels on it. Negate that isness. Isness is part of the verb to be. That's the pure being. That's the pure actuality as you are. Isness, amness, beingness. What Bob often says, and that is, that's really lucid. We are looking for cause and effect in everywhere. And you can resolve some of your problems with mantra. You can resolve some others with diet or with some other things. But the cause of all the problems is the belief in being separate me inside. So instead of patching up problems with concepts of concepts and ideas and practices, if you remove the original cause, the original scene, the separation, the me, if you question that, all the problems disappear right away.

There won't be any problem with too much thinking or too little thinking or pain or anything. Because it will be exactly just the one that is objecting life that is always against what is. That is saying, no, this is no good. I want it different. I want more enlightenment, more pleasure, less thoughts. That one is the cause of all the other problems. So when you question that one, check who is that I? The cause of all problems. Maybe there is nothing there. If you find out there is nothing there, you will never ever have the problem again. There will be situations, but nobody dare to call them problems.

And that's the freedom. That's, Bob is often talking about cause and effect. Cause of anxiety, fear, depression, self-esteem, low, high, whatever. The one cause is the belief in the separate self. That doesn't matter. It doesn't matter. It doesn't matter. It doesn't really exist. Nobody ever found it. You know, the sergeants cut the body into pieces. Nobody found that little thing there, the controller who pulls the strings or who choose things, choose thoughts. Nobody found anyone, neither in the head or in the heart or anywhere else. It is purely believed conceptual image like Santa Claus. You believe that this is a man that is riding in the sky on the rainers or whatever.

And it becomes a story. Same with that separate self. It's totally believed. If you see that there is nothing beyond the belief, problems will stop being problems. They will just become situations and there will be no resistance to the situation, however difficult or painful or whatever. The captain just kept catching a sentence. He gave you that beautiful statement of Ramamana Maharshi. Take a thorn and remove the other thorn with that other thorn with that thorn. That's it. That's it. When she said remove the thorn, do the same thing. You've got the feeling in the heart. Dig the heart out as we point it to. You know, it's looking in your heart.

You know, it's not there. But then remove the thorn that's saying it's in the head. Have a look at that and see where it is in the head. It's a terrorist trying to point it out to you. Where does that leave you? Fresh, here, now, present and aware. You can't negate that, can you? You're already that. But then we put the concepts. What have been acquired, picked up and learned on it. Reinforce them and believe that we're going to find the answer in the mind. But trying to find the answer in the mind is trying to wash away blood with blood. It's the mind trying to move the mind.

It won't happen. Can't happen. It's a good thing to actually see what's disturbing that natural state. The natural state where nothing is wrong. When you are totally at peace with life. And, yeah, that moment when Bob was asking what's wrong when you don't think. When you're not thinking, nothing's wrong. There's no problem. But then the idea comes in the mind. Yes, but I'm not enlightened. That's just an idea. If you don't believe it, you still nothing is wrong. And then next idea comes. Yeah, yeah, but I feel fear. I shouldn't. That's, again, another idea. There's it means that natural state is only obscured by the idea.

If there is a thought that you believe. Yeah, but I'm not that yet. I feel separate. This is real. I'm still an individual. I'm not enlightened. That very thought. When. Fully believed becomes your experience. You can believe into existence. Whatever you want. You can believe into existence. Fairies, gods, deities, terrorists. You can believe into existence. I mean, it's not going to be you who does that. It's just the tendency in the body. That's tendency to dream, to daydream, to imagine things. But if you start questioning, if your heart is calling out for the ultimate truth. And you start looking at these obscurations. And that beliefs that are clouding that natural state.

You will only ever find the narrative, the mental image or the sentence, the talk that is obscuring it. And when that talks that that narrative or that image stops, it's nothing wrong. It's never anything wrong unless you think it is wrong. You think you separate. You think you unhappy. You think this is not enough or is not not good enough, not pleasant or not blissful enough. There's always the thinking that makes life. And the thinking because it's believed. Because if the thought was there but was kind of ignored, that wouldn't be a problem either. The thoughts can come whatever. They can do whatever they want.

But the act of believing in them make them serious. Make them real. So that is the thing to question because you may still be attracted to doing mantra or meditation or anything. There's nothing wrong with doing. Anything whatsoever. Learning new language or dancing or meditating. It doesn't matter. But it won't be coming from the idea of I have a problem that I need to fix. It will be just expression of your true nature. Just the beauty of whatever the consciousness wants to sit down and enjoy the silence rather than gosh, I have to try harder. Why can I only hold my thought for this one for that long and no longer?

I'm a failure. I'm a loser. How am I going to do it better? All that dialogue. All that dialogue will transform into the peace. Into the blissful silence, peace. Or if it's still there, nobody listens. It's not a problem. That's the ultimate solution for all the problems. Not just the problem with not holding the thought for long enough in there. Or mantra. The ultimate problem is running out of time. Oh, wow. Oh, wow. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Oh, wonderful. But I really enjoyed the conversation. Lots of information. Lots of things. Wonderful. Yeah, thank you. Thank you everyone. Thank you. Thank you.