Sailor Bob - Nonduality - Love is Life. Love is Being. Love is Knowing. 4th of August 2019

Somebody here. Sarah? Dave? Chas? Yes. Pema? Sorry. Sarah? Sarah? Still one chair here. No, the other one. Here. I don't want that. You, with you, I want not that. Oh, yes. Well, same old, same old. We'll start off again. A bit of basic few words. If you can grasp that, you'll realise there's nothing else to grasp. I can't teach you anything, and I can't tell you anything. What we do is point toward and ask you to see what I'm pointing to. See for yourself. And realise that you are already that which we point to. Because it's based on... Based on all the ancient teachings, and even way far back as you can go.

My mind's not too good this morning. I'm forgetting a lot before I even start. The way that can be talked about is not the way. Understand that. I'm not speaking to anybody. I'm not speaking to any mind. I'm not speaking to that body-mind entity you might believe yourself to be. I'm speaking to that I am that I am. That sense of presence is with each and every one of us right now. It expresses through the mind as the thought. I am. Isn't that correct? Each one of you can say, I am. But we take that I am to be me. Or the personal self. And that's where we make the big mistake.

Because the person is not the reality. It never was, never will be, or never could be. Person. Comfort. It comes from persona. The mask. That's the ancient language, isn't it? Means. And what's the mask you've got about yourself? Well, isn't it a conceptual image? That's based on past events, what's called past events, experience and conditioning. Your seeming in life is how it's expressed. We can go back to recall and remember certain parts of it from when you first learned words. And that remembering, which we believed in, has come to believe, we believe what we are. What our parents told us. You're Bill, you're Johnny, or you're Jean, or you're this, that, or any other.

We've taken that belief to be real without questioning it. That's why I say I can't teach you anything. I can't tell you anything. But you need to look at these things for yourself. We've taken that on and reinforced it ourselves with the belief because our parents never told us to look at this. They've told us, you know, you've got to acquire a mind. You've got to acquire, amass, accumulate or add to. Get a better education, more wealth, this, that and the other, good relationship, a better job. And meditate and do all these other things, practice all these things and you will become something. But have a look at that word becoming.

What is it? It's an implication that there's something beyond this beingness that'll improve. This beingness will be improved into a better being. You'll be becoming something or other. But the transience, the change has gone on unconditionally all your life. You're not a little baby now. You're not the embryo that was in the womb. You're not, you know, any of the conceptual images or pattern, shapes and forms you've taken yourself to be. But what are you? And realise you are that life. That life is expression through you now as I show it I am. And look out there in the manifestation. You'll recall life. It's all pattern, shapes and forms.

All appearing, expressing. And that's what Christ told you. I am the way, I am the truth, I am the life. When he said I am, people thought he was talking about himself and set him up as something superior, something greater. He's talking about that same I am that you talk about. The I am-ness. But the I am-ness is the wrong belief you've got about you. You've got the I am this body, I am this mind. You've got to put some pattern, shape and form on it to make it seem really real. Not putting it onto the actuality. You are this essence but you can't put any name, shape and form on it.

Just like you can't put out the space in which all the life is appearing and expressing in and as and through. It's that being-ness if you like. It's the knowing-ness. It's the loving to be. That's the Satchitananda. That's another way they put it. And we put the name and form on it. form on it the nama rupa and that's the name and the form is where we lose sight of it because how can you name the absolute how can you form the absolute what shape and form can you give it and realize you can't give it any shape any form but anything you would add to it it wouldn't be the absolute anything you could take away from it it wouldn't be the absolute and then otherwise they call it the great perfection what is a perfection what can you add to the perfection if it's perfect there's nothing it's total that's complete that's absolute what can you take away from it and that's basically what we're pointing to the one essence that's patterning shaping forming appearing and expressing as everything and how could it express as something separate and apart if it didn't have these seeming individual patterns shapes and forms to express through but the buddha told you that it's a cognizing emptiness it's this emptiness itself that's cognizing or knowing another word for cognizing is knowing or being aware of and he said emptiness is form pointing out that that form that you and i and everything else the chairs the carver the cats the trees the flowers are appearing expressing through right in this moment are really emptiness appearing vibrating into pattern shapes and forms if it was remained in the stillness of the space like emptiness couldn't say a thing about it but it seemingly throbs or pulsates and seeming somewhat of a movement in it and forms patterns shapes appear just like ripples appear on the ocean or in the water if it's a movement subtle movement going through it but the emptiness is formed the form emptiness is form and the form that's you and my and everything else can be nothing other than the emptiness so that is your true nature right here right now ever was ever will and ever could ever could be but you can't say it you know the mistake of that that's appearing is different and the capacity of reasoning that we've developed we can see the pattern shapes and forms appearing but they tell you the pattern shape and form the nama rupa r maya what they call my is a is the illusion a phenomenal manifestation and the dictionary definition of phenomena is that which appears to be so you can't say you're not appearing right now there's not' appearance there and you can't say that it does appearance.

It seems touch it, feel it, taste it. It appears to be. But investigate it. Is the form solid or substantial? You can put your hand on it, it seems solid or substantial. Take a little bit further, put it under a microscope. See how solid it is. Take this body mind, you think you are this body mind, this person. I am the body, but hey, what's the body made up of? When you investigate it, you realise this body's made up of elements. Earth, fire, water, space, whatever the hell the others are, I forget, elements, air. See if there's anything other than that. Take the air out of your body if you think you're separate.

Stop breathing. How long would that pattern, shape and form last? It would soon break down, and the life essence or the air was not in it. And the other element, water. Take that other element. Take the air. Take the air. I said, what is 80% water? Take the water out of the element. Stop drinking water. See how long it lasts. Take the fire, the body temperature. Will you get hypothermia and die? Get off the earth if you can. Can you live off this earth? Can you get out of space? Can you move away from the emptiness, which is the earth and everything else is appearing in?

You can't postulate anything at all outside of space. So it's all the content of that thing we call space. What's the boundaries on space? Try and go to the edge, fly up to the edge of space, where it begins. You see, it's an impossibility when you just question that and look at it. Get away from space or the emptiness if you can. Where's the centre to it? Come back to it and see if you can find a point. Where is the centre to it? Where it begins? So it's got no centre. It's got no circumference. So all these things that appear in it, what are they bound in?

Into something that has no centre or circumference? And something that dissolves back into space? Like this body will break down when the life essence goes out of it, back into ash, into nothingness. Ash, emptiness. So it's never changed its true nature, but it appears to be. That's the wondrous intelligence. To say there's a body, to say there's an earth, and all the things on it, to work them out, doesn't that imply there is a natural intelligence? And what's this effusing through and expressing as? It's effusing through that body, isn't it? How can you say it's this, that or the other? It wasn't intelligence there. That intelligence has been broken down into words, ideas, images, concepts.

When we learnt words from our parents, and in the beginning, we learnt words. That's when you begin as this human form. When you learnt words. That was patterning and shaping and forming in the womb, and before that was growing out of the womb. If you hadn't learnt any words, you'd be like the animal, the insects and everything like that. The capacity of reasoning wouldn't have been developed to the extent it is when we've learnt words. That innate intelligence, that innate intelligence is going on and pattern, shaping and forming them, and it's still there in its purity. It's not divided. It's divided up into separate entities and individuals that think they are the reality itself.

When we learn that word, I am, instead of telling what they told us, the ancients told us and understood this, I am that. Innately, you know that in your language already. Because don't you say that's the chair, that's the carpet, that's the tree, that's the flower, that's the rest of the people in this room. Everything is that. You know it. You know it already. We put these concepts or words on it and seemingly divide. We take the word or the concept to be real. Now you don't have to be a Rhodes Scholar to question the word and see how real the word is. Take the word water.

If you're going out into the desert with a bottle full of nothing, can you, can you, that quench your thirst or so, can that word water? You've got the word water written into it or on it. The word water, that's going to quench your thirst. The word can't quench your thirst. It's the word fire, can you cook with it? And when you look at it and question it, don't be Rhodes Scholar again to work out that the word me or I is not what you really are. It's only the conceptual image you've got about yourself which you've learnt. And your parents have taught you and their schools have reinforced it.

Everybody's reinforced it. We never question. Investigate. Question. See for yourself. And we're not idiots, we're not dumb-bells, we're intelligence people. And we've taken on the belief that our parents and school society taught us without question. We've questioned so many other things and seen the falseness of them and moved away from them and understand them. And not bound into them when you know the truth. And that's the scriptural statement again, know the truth, the truth will set you free. What have you got to be free from? The only thing that you need to be free from is what has kept you in bondage. If you're not free, you're bound into something.

What's the bondage? The bondage is the belief that I am the person, I am the entity, I am the individual that's going to become realised, or liberated, or be a great guru, or a great teacher, or a great something or other. But you can't become any of that. You can't be any more than what you actually are. You actually are already, right now. And what appears and expresses and appears to be recognised or understood, you're not going to function from the boundaries we put upon ourselves and the belief we are an ego, a separate entity. Even that word ego didn't come into being until I think it was Freud or somebody like that, Freud or whatever your name was, invented it, or made it.

And it's been very useful for the psychiatrists and the philosophers and all the others, it's been a very useful word to use. But it's not the truth. The truth is I am that essence. I am that reality. I have always and ever been that. I am not the person. And now when we say I am, we immediately go to that personal aspect. Because of what we've been taught. And in that teaching of it, we've taken it without questioning it, our parents taught it to us, then we went to school and they taught us and keep renewing it and expressing it. Kids around us had learnt it also, they were telling us you are that reality.

And then you started believing in it yourself. And you've reinforced it yourself from then on. But somewhere along the line, like you're sitting here right now, is towards you, this is not good enough. There's something more. And you've been nagging away at you all your life. And started on a seeming search. But you're starting behind the eight ball to try and fix the me and become realised, liberated, understood. Instead of taking what the great mantra or the great I am that. That's what they tell you. Innately you already know it. Because you say that's the chair, that's the carpet, that's the tree, that's the flower, that's...

the other people in this room, everything is that. You know it. Which we've put words on. The same as you've put words on everything. You see things instead of taking them to be as they are, we put a label or a word on to understand it. When you're told you are that entity, I'm Bob or Bill, whatever your parents told you, you learnt words like I am from your parents and you looked out there beyond the word, something down the end of the river, whatever you were, that's not I or that's not me because it's not. So what have you done? You've then seen that there's no me seeing it, everything is that.

You see that's not I or that's not me and I'm separate from it. And with that sense of separation you come in security because it's something the little child doesn't know what it is. He has learnt of seeing something that he can't recognise or relate to as I or me. So it's not I, it's not me. And with that sense of separation comes insecurity. When they see something that he doesn't think is me, he's insecure about it. He's not sure of it. And the vulnerability is there, this might be something that might be able to hurt me, I feel it. That insecurity and vulnerability becomes our life.

We're living from that point already, never sure what anything is. Unless we take on the belief that this is real, this is so and reinforce that belief. But belief is just another word we've learnt, like the many words we've had of it. The definition of belief is an unquestioned acceptance in the absence of reason, acceptance of an alleged fact without positive knowledge or proof. So what we're going to do if you hear that statement, if you've got any sense at all, are you going to use it in the right way, is that a statement real? Because the false cannot stand up to investigation, you hear that along the way.

If it's false, investigate it, you'll see it's false. And the false is not the truth. And it's know the truth, and the truth will set you free. That's where the freedom, peace and joy is, is in recognising and knowing the truth. And so that sense of presence, that's what it's about. And the truth is I am that now. I am this person. I am Bob, the Australian, the individual. I am the separate entity. And we're reinforcing that. Instead of recognising that when the I am comes up now, it's I am this and I am that. And not believing it's I am this or I am that because it's become a personal self.

And I am this person that's seeing this and that. Not that I am already that. I am that seeing. I am that hearing. I am that tasting. I am that touching. I am that smelling. I am that feeling. I am everything. I am the all and everything. Not the person. The person was never any of that. It's the thatness itself. The essence itself that's expressing and appearing as everything, as what we call that. Some thing. That is a thing. And all this manifestation, the whole content of this manifestation is things. The earth, the planets, the stars, the moon, the sun, the trees, the flowers, the insects, the birds, the microbes, the bacteria, the vices are all that.

And the so-called human race is all that. Not the personal that I am. Not the person. It is that itself that's expressing as the person. And expressing and patterning as everything else. All the other things that is manifesting. So it's never ever changed its true nature. Though it's seemingly real, it appears to be real, but it's all transient as they tell us. Have a look. You think you are that person now? Is it the same person you walked into this room? You might think so. You might think it is. But when you question it and see and understand this, you'll realize that there are millions of cells.

And it's made up of cells. And those cells are made of animals. There are millions of cells dying in it right now. And being replaced through the essence of the food, the prana and things that are taking it in your breath. And in the food you eat. And in the energy that all is. Seemingly renewing it. And each cell is suffused with an innate intelligence, innate knowing. And an energy. It's all energy. Energy is the throb or the pulsation, the seeming throb or pulsation that never existed in the first place. So it's all expressing as pattern shapes and forms and things. That's why it can be never touched, never contaminated or never corrupted by anything that appears in it.

Now that body might seem to be a little bit more, corrupted and contaminated. But the essence of it is not. It's changing. Constantly transient. And it's all seeming taking place in time. What is time? Time is duration. And duration seemingly has a beginning and an end. But when does this seeming nowness begin? In the very idea you are being. You are not beginning. You are already being. And being implies if you're not beginning, it implies the start. It will always remain the beginning. But when you believe it's time bound, it will become something. Becoming is not being. It's the conceptual idea of something in the future.

The future is a concept of time. What future is there? If you don't put the label on it. Look at it. What future is there? You can't live a moment. Try and live in the future. If you think there's a future in the past, you'd go back to it. But you can't live in the past. Go back to the past. You can recall it. The memory that this functioning intelligence has is seemingly what we call a memory. Go and go back and live yesterday or a moment ago. What you thought about a minute ago is gone right now unless you recall it. It needs to be recalled and put into the moment.

And it will only last as long as it's in this moment. The same in the future. You can't live in the future. You can imagine and anticipate what you're probably doing, what you're going to do next week or next week or next year or in the future, but you can't live then. The actual livingness, which is the beingness, when is it going on? Realise, recognise right now. It's taking that breath. I'm not deliberately taking. It's beating that heart. I'm not deliberately doing as a seemingly conceptual image. I am that we've taken ourselves to be. I am that body. I am that mind. I am that essence.

It's beating your heart. It's growing your hair and your fingernails. It's digesting your food. It's replacing cells in your body. Isn't that so? If you've got a cut on your body or a bruise, isn't it healing? Isn't it changing? It might seemingly, in the concept of time, it might seemingly take time, but when that time comes about and actually is taking place, it's actually taking place in this moment, in this seemingly, it's not even a moment. It's just a vibration. So you as the person, when you look into it, has never been corrupted or contaminated. By that life essence, it's a suffusing pattern. The person, see when he comes and goes.

Different concepts, different ideas, different images. Constantly changing, constantly transient. But you've always and ever been that. It'd be a bit hard to break the patterns. We've reinforced them, believed them every day. Not only of ourselves, but everybody around us. Our schools, society, our nations. And everybody around us reinforced that belief. And you've got to do this, you've got to become this, you've got to do that. They're living in that belief because they're living in it. But realise and recognise, if you look at something and it makes you look into the stuff, you'll realise there's some seeming patterns have gone further along the way. There's great traditions written about it.

There's so-called greater beings have understood it and realised there's no greater beings. There's no greater beings and that's the one thing. There have been the patterns, shapes and forms or the messengers that have trans- whatever, the message and we worship the messenger. Set up religions. Think things around them, traditions and religions around them. And we've got to follow. And these traditions set up a set of rules, not from the basic ones that have spoken in the first place, but others that have taken on board and things they can add to it. And do it. And gather themselves a following, a group that'll be different from the other groups and we can fight and argue with them and which we do do because we've divided ourselves.

But it's the one essence, one pattern, shape and form. I've lost the track here somewhere, but it doesn't matter. I couldn't care less. I'm past for caring. But I'll leave it up to you now. You've got to taste it and you've got to taste it. And I'm pointing to, if it's resonating with you, spook it out. If you've got doubts about it, spook them out. Bring it out and question yourself. That's the only way you'll ever understand or recognise. By questioning your beliefs. Not going on what you've standard, you know, taken on the belief without questioning. Question it and see if it's true. Because you don't have to lobby along to realise that the false itself cannot stand up to investigation.

Like you've seen so many things, you wouldn't believe that the sea is blue today. But why? If you hadn't investigated before, you'd have looked and questioned it. It doesn't seem to be blue. And you knew it, thought it, and believed it was blue until you went down and pulled a bucket of water out and you see it's not blue. The same with the sky. The same with the rainbow. The same with the snake and the rope, which I tell you about in different things. And other patterns, shapes and forms which we investigate. They're not the actuality. Investigate this essence. This essence that you believe yourself to be.

This body-mind. I am this person. And I'm a good person or I'm a bad person. See the labels and the concepts you put upon yourself. Live by them and believe in them. And if you've got this concept that you are this label or person, and it's not going the way I think it should be, it should be all going perfectly, it's not, don't you suffer accordingly because of that belief oh, I'm unhappy, I'm fearful, I'm not good enough, people don't like me. And see all your psychological suffering comes about from your putting it on this believed in conceptual image which you think is solid, substantial and real.

Is it? Have a look. Question it. When you get that taste you say what the hell I've been carrying this around with me all these years and suffered accordingly and fought over it and got like a hated other people because they've said something that's hurt this image of God of ours. Something that's affected this image. It's all because of that. Something we take on board and gone against what you've consistently been, others have gone against it and questioned it and told you you're not that or you're not good enough, you've got to do this and got to do that. All because of the belief. See for yourself.

Well there it is. It's up to you. And each one of you wouldn't be here if you weren't questioning and looking at it. There's a million out there tonight that won't bother coming to this sort of thing because they couldn't, they're going to stay locked into their belief that they've got to hang on to. They're going to have, they've got this position, they've got this, what will happen if I drop all this? It'll be taken away from me and I'll lose it. Not understanding that they couldn't have had it in the first place if that life essence didn't, wasn't directing the path. Wasn't actually vibrating into a specific pattern, shapes and forms, which doesn't know it's anything other than a pattern or form.

The innate intelligence is making it seemingly real. And give me that line. So there you go. George. You worshipped a messenger. That's why a messenger is a human being. As you say, that's very satisfying to worship the messenger. When you do that, is the messenger always happy, unworried, unconcerned about anything? So how much satisfaction is really in that, worshipping the messenger? Not very much at all. And when you recognise that, you're going to question the messenger. The messenger is not fixing me up. It's not complete by worshipping the messenger. There's projection going on. There's always an idea that, the messenger is superior. There's nobody wants to believe that Jesus was digesting a food and making some far.

He is full. How could he? And you, you, you, you never does such a thing. And when he does, it smells roses. Yeah, it is satisfying, as you say, because who doesn't want to be in love? Like being in love, having someone superior there, who you love and you adore and you respect and you admire. It is satisfying. It's a pleasure. It's a pure, pure pleasure in it. And some people even say this is like a final destination of all the monotheistic religions, where the individual is still there, but the individual is melted in love towards the divine. It's a nice place to be. Nothing wrong with that.

But there is further to go. Like what Bob is pointing, is, well, if, you see, you can be in love with yourself in anything and everything, if that is how the consciousness expresses. But believing in superiority and inferiority of one form over the other, is still being in the head, is still being a believer. So if you really want to be free from being a believer, me here and someone out there, well, it's a pleasure with it, as you say. And many, many people just stop there because of pleasure. And that's okay. They know the doers. That's how consciousness wants it to be. But there is a further recognition, if it is to happen, that Bob is pointing.

Yes, it's not really exactly that consciousness has any willingness or any wish to have things the way they are. It is how it appears to be. Consciousness is not an entity who is making, who is having free will and making choices. Of course, the consciousness, you know, I call it the life in form, which means the wave in the ocean. They don't ask how big or how fast they will be growing and moving and disappearing. It is just the happening. But to say it, it is the way it should be or the way it is or the way it wants it to be. It's just the limitation of the language.

So it's almost as if, you know, the consciousness wants, wants and it doesn't want anything because it's not really about wanting. It is how it is. But it experiences itself in such a diversity of forms. So in some forms, it experiences itself as poverty, in some as bowing down to the divine, in some as recognizing itself as the divine, and everything else also. So it isn't really that it kind of wishes and it chooses because it doesn't. Consciousness, one could say, is, is unconscious. It's just, it's just isn't it? Yeah, it's a creation. It's the, it's the pattern of, of expression as, as different forms and shapes.

It's a great intelligence in it, one could say, you know, like Bob is pointing, there's intelligence in the, in the blood cells, in your, in the, in the bloodstream. They know to transport the oxygen to the organs. How do they know where to go? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Of language. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Thank you for correcting it because it is important. It is intelligence in it, us it, in everything, us everything. Mm. When Kat started off she says, I am talking about something in love. When the person thinks it's in love with something. It is the love. Not in, if something's in it, that must be, that thing that thinks it's in it must be separate and apart from it.

That is not. It's in love. It is the love itself. I am the love. I am. And what is love? I am love, and what is love? Love is life. Love is being. Love is knowing. Life is energy. It's a vibration. It's a seemingly subtle movement. Seemingly so. All seemingly. But it's only you. Everything is that. Absolute what? Absence of person. Absence of person is love. Yes, yes. Yes, that's right. Take the person out of it and be the love. Yes, already. That's right. Exactly. So, as you just said, you are that. Yeah, Hyman was just, because we released that little interview on the bush, on the vine yesterday, where Bob is a couple of times getting really excited about the realization Moses had on the mountains.

And he says, shit, I am that. And I was, why shit? Well, he couldn't say Christ. Christ didn't exist back then. ...are really meaningless, but the point is, shit and Jesus Christ are the same. I mean, I mean, I mean... Yes. It's just words, you know. Yeah, just words. The feeling, the, you know, situation, you know, the quarter. Yeah, that's the reality, yeah. Yes. And the reality that will never ever be the same again, any other moment in the eternity. Yeah. There's only now. Like movement of water in the ocean. Yeah. You said earlier that it's quite difficult to break the patterns. And I've been struck at my tendency to try to fix the patterns.

And yet that's made them crazier. So that's where they're kind of collapsing. My trying to investigate them, fix them, resolve them. And that becoming more and more impossible. Is she gonna fix nature? Yeah. You know, it's winter now, soon it'll be spring. What are you doing about it? And what is nature doing about it? Is anyone out there, is there any old guy in the clouds riding up, will this come along spring? No. Beautiful. It's going to change of itself, which it naturally does. Life lives on life. Outer life, more life comes. Patterns form, patterns play around, patterns disappear, more patterns appear. It's constantly transient, constantly changing.

And it is that life, which is love. The love of being. Being, knowing and loving to be. That's a different way of expressing the so-called word love. We could have all sorts of connotations on that. Oh, listen. It's this ordinary, everyday beingness, which you are right now. And that will express as a sense of being well, or well-being. And so I got other pictures of, there's a sense of gladness there. But there's nobody who is glad. Gladness is like the sun breaking out, isn't it? Ah, wonderful. But nobody is doing it. Just the innate intelligence that knows. And so I put these labels on, but none of the labels are real.

Understand that. Whatever words we use in our labels will never be it. But that's what Penn, through our conditioning, we have the tendency of getting onto some label and fixating on it and think this will be the one. Well, this is the way. But what's that intuitive voice? What they call a voice? The still, small voice. They taught it in the Bible. Intuition. Thou shalt hear a voice behind you saying, this is the way, walking into it. Whether you turn to the left or turn to the right. It's guiding you whichever way you go. We think there's going to hear a voice there or something.

It might come up with these words like these words are coming out now. Who's speaking these words? The words are happening, coming up. So the word is not the enemy. When we don't understand or don't believe it, it's a problem. Because the word constantly vibrates. Look at your mind. You see the good, bad, pleasant, painful, happy, sad, loving, hating. You see your mind vibrating constantly in the pairs of opposites. And the boundaries you put in one of those opposites are the word. Good, bad, pleasant, painful, happy, sad, loving, hating. What happens if you take those boundaries off? You're not encapsulating anything within those words like we can accept.

You're conceptualizing this entity within the words that are encapsulated. It's bound into two concepts. Between the goodness, the badness, the pleasant and the painful. An ego, a self-center, a reference point. Which there's nothing in there. Let it vibrate. Which it does. Look at nature. Day, night, winter, summer. Incoming tide, outcoming tide. All the other things I can't think of now. It's vibrating, although it's seemingly vibrating. Appearing. And the appearance has no substance to it or anything to do with nature. Grasp hold of the daylight if you can. Grasp hold of the night. This is winter. Or spring, whatever it is. Winter, I think it is, yeah.

Grasp it. You can't. It's got nothing solid or substantial to it. But it's appearing and it's cold and something we put a label on. And making it a seemingly set time. And is any of it appearing outside this immediacy? Where is your memory now? Unless you're recalling something right now. Is there a past if you don't think about it? Is there a future if you don't think about it? Nothing either good or bad, but thinking makes it so. Nothing can trouble you excepting your own imagination. See, it's all these terms and things they put it there. They're all pointers to it and the direction right to it if you question them, look into it.

Imagination. Break that down to image in. What is an image? Look in the mirror over there and you'll see it's full of images or reflections. Try and grab one of those images out of the mirror. All you'll do is grab the glass. You won't grab the image because your image doesn't exist. And that's a poor analogy. The mirror is a mirror. A mirror needs something outside to reflect in it. But all these images you're making now, creating, are in this space. Seemingly solid and seemingly substantial, but real. But if it wasn't for that spontaneous life or love or whatever you like to call it, how many images could there be?

If there wasn't that life essence in that body, you've got all those organs. You've got a heart, the eyes, the ears, the nose, the mouth, all these organs, the kidneys, the liver, the heart and all of it. What can it do? Any of those things. What breath can you take without that life essence? What contraction and expansion can the heart do without that life essence? What food can be? How many words can come out of your mouth without that life essence? And what's the life essence? It's the love or the energy that you are. Somebody says, Ram Dassler, somebody, be what you are. Are. And what was or will be.

But are is part of the verb to be. Is-ness. I am-ness. Be that. Which you can't not be. Never have not been. But the belief we've taken on board through the way we've been taught and understood, we've taken on and that's where all the wars, all the unhappiness, all the diversity comes about because of that. What a beautiful way of talking about the nature. I mean equating the emotional life or the physical life. I mean the pattern to the nature. Like if there is a high tide of whatever, anger, or the volcano of sadness or whatever, the nature wouldn't do anything about it. The nature doesn't resist whatever happens, whatever the pattern is there.

If there let's say some hormones are up and the pattern is there of irritability, it doesn't nature doesn't do anything about it. Only the idea of someone there trying to do something or resisting or not wanting it, wanting what it's not. Wanting what it was. That creates the suffering. But at the same time, the recognition, because it doesn't mean that nothing will be done. Of course things will be done. Like the nature, whatever the tide is created by everything, including the moon, including the shores, including whatever the CO2 released by humans. A thousand things, infinite amount of factors, of variables, creates every event in the nature.

And equally every event in us which is also nature. This is the nature. So the hormones are dependent on the diet, dependent on external circumstances, on the relationships, on everything. So these things may also be, you know, like I can suddenly read the article about the supplements for the estrogen levels or whatever, or sauerkraut creating a good gut flora and more serotonin, stuff like this. And this is also life learning. And this is also incorporated. The problem starts when we put a story on it and when we start taking credit of it. Like, see, I have free will. I can do now this or that or the other.

Now there is an I, already the image, in the whole picture. There is an ocean waving. There is a life. There is this infinite amount of factors contributing to the next moment. There is no next moment, but to this moment. And suddenly there is an entity showing up on the screen that has something to do or say or fix. And that entity is part of the ocean. It's also another wave. So if I step back and see even that pattern, the pattern of wanting to fix or wanting to change, as just another tune in the whole orchestra, in the whole music. And I listen to it as much as I listen to the whatever, the birds outside, the inner voices and the outer voices, the sounds and the seeing and the hearing and the tasting and touching.

And then there is a storm going on inside the body. And there is a story also going on top of the storm. And this is all part of the landscape. But what we do, we exclusively focus on one element to the absence of all the others. And this one becomes magnified and it becomes so serious. And it runs our life because now the value is given to it so high that nothing else matters. So actually just opening up that presence, which Bob says, unfixated awareness, opening up to the present moment, to what is. Because the story is going to tell us the imagination of what they did to me or what they shouldn't have or what I shouldn't have.

It's an imagination. Opening up from that story. Opening up to what is happening into the seeing, hearing, tasting, touching, smelling. Thinking will be there in the background. It will still be there or not, whatever. Whether it is there or it's not there, the whole, the whole moment will be appreciated, acknowledged, and lived to the fullest. It's a freedom and it's a beauty in that. And it's a joy in that also. Because suddenly you can realize that. even in the storm there is beauty, profound beauty in the winter freezing cold wind from the arctics and the Melbourne weather changing five times a day. There is a profound beauty in it when it is really allowed to shine fully rather than being covered up by interpretation and resistance.

I got up this morning and I was half dead and three quarters dead. Well you do go on and on. Yeah, well that's what I say. Come here you turned up, you all turned up and the energy came in because there's a resonance there. You resonate and maybe want to hear what is being said but you give out as much as you take in. So it enlivens me. It's not a one way street as much as it enlivens you or it mightn't even enliven you. You can reject it if you like but go out and join. Join the multitudes which have been in all night.

Or you can come along and follow this. If you move to then you will. But that same intelligence energy that's in this pattern is in that pattern also. It's in the tree outside, it's in the flower, it's in everything. That where two or three are gathered together in my name there I am in the midst of them. That's another saying. So in that one essence it is. It's here. It's with you. It is you. Take it. He even threatened that he's not going to speak today. He says you will have to do it. I'm dead. And I said darling you just have to promise me that you will do your absolute best.

I'm here as a backup but you have to give it a try. Otherwise I'll be crucified that I'm taking over. And yet you're on fire today. You're beautiful. Well I wouldn't have been if you weren't here. I will find a way. I promise. Promise. Yeah it really feels profoundly beautiful when you say it. It kind of strikes home when people hear it. So thank you. It really is for you know we always and ever only speak to ourselves because there's oneself. And that oneself is the beloved. And if that oneself recognizes itself through the light shining out of your eyes. Yes. There's nothing more rewarding.

There's nothing more beautiful. That's yeah. Absolutely. There is no suffering. Except for Shana. Yeah. That's right. Swinging back and forth. Well when you learn to enjoy the swing. That's right. That's right. That's all I got to do. Just stop resisting it. When you said there is no suffering know that for certain. Then who's going to suffer? Are you? I'm going to drop off. I was talking really in the story and in the interpretation and the resistance and so it was, I've been really hanging out to come here to just hear the medicine. Because it's, those words are coming from a place of just truth and.

Do it yourself. Drop the words. You can see it, you can see the cause of it. You don't have to hang around and wait until you see somebody. Say it's happening to me. Right now who's me? Yeah. Another concept. Drop it. Stop it. It goes against all of our conditioning though. Yeah. Even like Taz and I are therapists and all the therapy mumbo jumbo and the self improvement movements and. Yeah. So it's having to really transcend that. That's true. Taz was against all our conditioning. Went through this conditioning here too to see what conditioning is there where I don't think about it. Yeah. I believe in conditioning.

I believe in conditioning seems very solid substantial and real. Realise if there's no thought there, who's conditioned or what's conditioned. And then that words of Shakespeare come really true. There's nothing either good or bad but thinking makes it so. What are you gotta do if you hear that? Pause the thought. Don't bother to go into it too much. No matter how much that hurts in the start when the really suffering's going on. Just relax it as much as possible. Yeah. When you see the conditioning as conditioning, not my conditioning, that changes the game also. Because yes, there are patterns, you know, everything. We could call the conditioning the way we hold our head because the mother was doing it, or the way we speak, the way, the tonality of the voice, the way we walk.

That's all conditioning. But if it's not mine, it's just a pattern. It's just how the whole universe created that particular pattern. And then you don't even have to fix it or do anything about it. You just see it arising. Because if you still, you can't say the pattern or the conditioning doesn't exist. You can't say it doesn't exist in a certain way. Yeah, the pattern is there, of course. Yeah, the pattern is there. But you don't have to really label it or... Yeah, it's not personal. No. Can you return to that? Yeah. You can't say that's not your own thing. You might as well be out and being somebody else.

Yeah. Really? And if it was, how long do you think you'd be interested in it? Yeah. Like, if I all of a sudden had the capacity to see and hear every single solitary thing that went on in your mind throughout the course of the day, give me a couple of minutes and I'd be bored shitless. Because... That's your person. That's my person. But it's... It's just normal. It's just normal. I hear blowing around the room, being through the fact that there's nobody here that it's happening to. That's all. It doesn't mean it's not happening. Life is still happening. There's things just spontaneously happening all the time around us, all the time.

The eradication of me that the world is happening to, there's no suffering. There is no problem. Because the only problem that manifests is the pain. Yeah. And the only problem that manifests is... But me is just another pattern of thought that floats through too, claiming I'm shit bold. Yes. It's me that's aware of thoughts. Well, that's such a big mistake. It's a process that we go through. What we do is start to spot that, holy shit, thoughts do just happen in and of themselves. I'm not choosing them. I don't create them. They just happen. Oh. And a bit of gap gets created. A bit more gap gets created.

Then you can start to laugh. And you can start to think, oh, I'm not choosing them. I'm not creating them. I'm not creating them. I'm not creating them. I'm not creating them. I'm not creating them. I'm not creating them. I'm not creating them. And a bit more gap gets created. Then you can start to laugh at some of the stuff that floats through. But even then, ultimately, there's still a sense of me here. Me believes it's the one that is aware of all the thoughts that just float through. And it's not. Me is also contained in those thoughts that float through. We just don't recognize it.

Because me takes or claims ownership of this sense of presence, all this, all this, all this, all this. I remember saying, God, I know all this stuff, but I still feel like I'm here. I don't know where else I expected to find myself, by the way, but I still feel like I'm here. Like it was a profound statement, but I still didn't see it, even at that point, until I realised what was actually going on. And the realisation that I had was that the last thing that me was clinging onto, or hanging onto, was this aliveness, was this beingness, was this awareness, was this sense of presence.

And me, it was just a thought by the way, was claiming ownership of it. It's mine. Yet that presence or awareness or sense of beingness, if you like, doesn't change. It's there, whether me's there or not. It's there. So how can me claim ownership of it? It steps in later and goes, this is mine. Like it does with everything else. It's my car, it's my coat, it's my hat, it's my girlfriend, my wife, my kids, my, my, my. It's nature to do that. It just clings and takes and tries to fill itself, tries to make itself feel better by piling stuff in there. The problem is there's no one there.

So it's just like a bottomless pit. It just, it doesn't matter what you pile into it. It's never, ever, ever satisfying. And the only suffering that seems to be happening is just thoughts. Just one pattern of thought in conflict with another pattern. That's all. So the suffering is just ideas. Just thoughts. This pattern of thought in conflict with that pattern of thought, and then another pattern of thought will come up, I'm suffering. It's just... It's the weirdest thing. It's the totally the weirdest thing that how this operates. And then, and then we get caught in it and we believe it. And when I say we, it's just a pattern of thought.

It's a complete identity that gets created. An absolute complete identity that gets created. That starts to get created from when we're a couple of years old, when we start to learn words. And then all this conditioning goes in. Yeah. And, you know, at some point along the way we go, this is me. And now you're responsible for me. You didn't even create your me. Zero. To learn words for a start. You know, if you were brought up in Africa, where the culture was, your worth was based on how many cows you have as a male. We're rubbing red soil all over our body and, you know, to protect us.

And the women are going up hunters and gatherers. If you were born into that tribe. Do you think your me would be the same me that's here now? Completely different. Totally, completely different. Why? Because of the conditioning. What's being put in there. And then we take what's being put in here to be me. It's crazy. And the reason we say all the time, go looking for it. Go looking for this me. Where is it? Go, like literally, go looking for it. Without assuming. It's there. Can we just assume it's there? Why? And then you realise the suffering. The search of the me that can never be found.

Yeah. Like the real answer that should come up when you really dive in there to go looking for it is no answer. Nothing. And in that pause, something magical happens. Because there's not an answer. It just sort of goes quiet. Me disappears. Me disappears. In that. Because there's not one. And then you're encouraged to just abide there. I don't think there's anyone that can abide there. But it's just a pointer. Yeah. Be there. And where is there? Here. And it's really, really quiet. Internally. Massively quiet. Just still. Quiet. Space. All those words are wrong. But it's there. Just drops. Stops. Just drops. And where do you find yourself?

Here. Where we've always been. Just has been overlaid with all this stuff that goes on in here. And somehow we've been taught to believe that it's better and wiser. God. Better and wiser to live in there than it is here. What the fuck? But we're taught to believe. But we're taught that. And everyone is taught that. And then we take what goes on in here to be real. Jesus. This is what goes on in here throughout the course of the day is so similar to what goes on in us when we're sound asleep on our bed at night. Dreaming. Both states, if you look at them, are so similar.

And neither state do you have any control over. It just happens. No control over the content of the dream or what's happened out here. You've got no control over thoughts that are going to come up or other people that you're going to interact with and what they're going to say and then what you're going to say. It all just happens the same as in the dream. They're actually the same. It's the same thing that's going on. How do you operate as therapists knowing all of this? Freely. Freely. Freely. Freely. Like freely. Just absolutely purely spontaneously and let the intelligence do the work. And get the fuck out of the way yourself.

Get out of the way. Because that intelligence is always there and it's always functioning and it's always operating and it's it that is responsible for everything. There's just an illusion there that we're taken to be self. We're taken to be me. That believes it needs to be doing things. It needs to be saying things. It needs to be in control. It needs to be helping. It needs to be thinking of the right thing to say when that person has just said blah. And you don't. Like if you really watch yourself and I'm sure Shana and Tess have experienced it. When you're in a session with somebody and you're working with somebody, it just comes up.

Just comes up. You know? whith is perfect. The only problem then would be if stuff just came up and then the head start as a therapist the head start going oh I'm not sure I should have said that I hope they're ready for that oh maybe I should have not said that and immediate ownership of what has just happened so the idea is just get out of the way the only thing that creates problems is me sleeping. The difficulty I have is that at a certain stage a client does need to feel like they have they can problem-solve their patterns and I've just got to start learning that that's where that's a role I can take on with them but not to have my beliefs so much invested in them.

Just let it be let it be purely spontaneous whatever's gonna come up in you at any moment I mean if I'm sitting with a friend and it's got no idea of non duality I'm not gonna sit with them and say listen you haven't got a problem you don't exist. I'm not gonna do that you know what happens is I just it just automatically comes up in me to engage where they are and it just happens I don't have to think about it and it just constantly spontaneous happens and you can you trust that like I completely I it's just a trust just knowing that it's all perfectly happening exactly as it should and then little old me steps in there and thinks it knows better it's God or it's even bigger than nature and goes no no no shouldn't be going that way this should have happened or that should have happened it's insane it really is it's quite insane living in there a past yesterday past and future the me is nothing but memory create amnesia and wipe it out you disappear.

your me completely disappears if we were able to do that you'd still be sitting there'd be a presence there'd be an aliveness it'd still be seeing hearing tasting touching smelling but Terry would be gone without I'm talking complete amnesia you'd be totally gone yeah so straight away I mean that's a great point of who is me who is me. is there another way toнопare I've got if not memory what is that nothing but Erica there's nothing but memory. Nothing but thoughts, ideas, rails, conditioning all the stuff that's been borrowed went to this People may agree. school I had this parent and all sexually abused or whatever the story is so containing memory and Kim what we do which is unbelievably insigna we bring the so-called the干部 that there's still a lot currently in episode four of this talk for me that only the 5 minutes.

I call it past, which is just memories. We bring that into the present and call that me. Fuck, really? Who I am now? Like, right now, is that who I am? Because without all of that, if we create amnesia, I still am. There is a problem with that is that when you do have memories, you need feelings that arise as a result. And that affirms that sense of me, doesn't it? Yeah, why? Because the feeling, vibrates in the body. And because me has taken ownership of the presence and the awareness, it takes ownership of the feeling. Because it's felt. This is my feeling. It's the same as saying, this is my awareness.

This is my presence. It sort of makes it real. Because it makes the past seem like it's real because of being felt in the present. Yes. And that's a bit of a dilemma. Yeah, yeah. And the other thing that I... But it's the labelling of that energy. If that energy wasn't labelled, what would it be? You just labelled it. Right there, you just labelled it. If there's literally no label added, what could you say? Literally. What could you say? You couldn't even say there was an energy. That's a label. And if you see all of it as real, that's not a great crime, you know, because there is...

We can't say if that is real or it's not real or if it happened or it doesn't happen or it didn't happen because it is happening right now through the memory. But the problem is really when it is mine, when it is personal. Because as Terry was saying, you know, if the content of your thinking was exchanged with somebody's, somebody else's thinking, it wouldn't be personal, you wouldn't be bothered. The problem with the whole past and traumas and patterns is that there is a personal... As you said, it's the feeling. The feeling that makes it personal. You know, Terry spoke about the grasping and that's how it...

And that grasping and energy, it's a function, you know. And how do you dissolve that? Who would do that? Why do you want to do that? Yes, who is doing it? You're giving credibility to the man. Bob wanted to say something. When Terry started, he says it's all noise. What's noise? Sound. What's sound? What's sound? The disturbance of the silence. Silence is seemingly disturbed by the vibration or noise that appears in it. That's all it is. Sound comes up as words, thoughts, ideas, images, feelings, all those things that really put labels on, put words on, which are disturbing the silence. And that's the basic screen in which everything appears in.

Stillness and silence. Emptiness. Only appearing is disturbed. When Sharna was asking Bob, she was sharing about wanting to fix the pattern, that's another, that's the same kind of tendency, wanting to fix the pattern, wanting to dissolve the me owning everything, wanting to change it. That's perpetuates. That's the... That's the... That's the very me or the ego that wants things to be changed. If you actually leave it as it is, including the tendency for me to own things, and you just see it as part of the weather, the changing pattern, it's impersonal, and therefore it loses all the grasp, all the hold on you. It loses importance.

It becomes kind of sweet. It becomes like a childish play. Oh, there you go again. And you laugh. It's not, it's not creating any suffering anymore. And there is no... See the, the very attitude that thinks should change and should be different is the source of the suffering, the desire and the repulsion. I don't want this. I want that. I don't want the grasping. I want the peace or something. That's the eye that wants, like seeing the sweetness of the play in the way that's impersonal, like stepping back and seeing that very pattern as just one of the waves on the ocean, one of the multitude of the patterns, variety of ways that intelligence expresses.

It takes the sting of it. And then it probably, I mean, it would reasonably soon drop off by itself because it's not being fed by attention, by energy. It doesn't get that energy anymore. But I'm struck at the fact that maybe you just can't get it wrong because even while I'm trying to fix the pattern, at times the futility of that is immediately making itself obvious. Wonderful. And it's like it almost needs to collapse on you. Yes. Anyway. Yes. But some people waste 30, 40 years for it. Hopefully I'm not going to. Yeah, you're right. I think people a lot of time go to the grave.

Yeah. Is still with it. But yeah, in any case. It was wonderful that this futility is obvious, for you, because that's what matters. There's no mean grasping. What do I actually mean when I'm saying that? Because I'm saying this is that there's no meaning, but there's a tendency to grasp clean on what's doing that. If there's no meaning, what's doing that? Because we're saying there's no meaning. Yeah, but we don't hear it. Seems to take forever to finally hear that. People hear it and they go, yeah, yeah, look, I get that. But what do I do when this happens? What does who do when that happens?

Just said there's no me. Yeah, so it's catching yourself. Just listening to the listening to the dialogue that comes out of you and catching it. Oh, and the other thing is, if if is only one and it's perfect, and there's only one, there's no room for me. Number one and number two, if there is only one, what is it that is responsible for all the thought pattern? Not you. Just totally is there. Yeah. And what is it that starts to see? Oh, oh, that's just all stuff that's kind of rattling on in there. What is it that sees that? So what is it that's waking up?

Not me, because there isn't one. So that intelligence, it manifests. That's that's where you need to be. That's where you need to be. But that that question will really only arise. Yeah. When you're, when you're absolutely convinced and seen for yourself, oh my God, there is no me here. Then what is this? Is this? And you shouldn't get an answer when you ask that. Just go blank because there isn't one. My, um, my needs become a little bit engaged thinking about when, when, if the waking up expression happens, how am I going to do my job? Same way you've always been doing it. You just think it's me being doing it.

And it hasn't been me being doing it. But like years ago, that fella in the phone box, he's ringing me on the phone. Oh yeah, that's him. And he says, if that's the case, I won't do anything. I say, you're good. Try staying in the phone box. So spontaneously happens. Yeah. The assumption that there is a me here, and it's responsible for how I am at work and what I do and, and so on and so forth. No. You know, not be able to do anything but look at the clouds. You know, I don't know. I don't know what you mean. She's not forgotten that, Tara.

The first thing she talked about was the light. Yeah, yeah, yeah. She's delayed the light now. I mean, I love that, but I think, oh, I'm not going to be able to function. You're still, you're, look, you're speaking now. Yeah. Is functioning happening now? Yeah. Is there a me doing that? That's the question. No, and I can really, really get that. Okay. Then relax about that. Relax about that. Thank you. Relax. Let it be. Yeah, okay. We're all being, look, another way about that. Perhaps putting this, we're all being lived. Yeah. Yeah. And in terms of this so-called waking up, yeah, we're all being done.

There's no me here that's trying to get this. Yeah. Or trying to gain this. It's just happening. Yeah. Just like a flower opens up. Yeah. It just happens. And it. So you are that doing. You are that being done. Not a person. That's what happened. And you are that. That are working conventional nine to five jobs. And that's what worries. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely. Totally. You wouldn't know. Could you stop doing chips? I did. Bob's not working like. But he did. He had many, many jobs after he. I work full time. Let me tell you. Working full time after. I work full time.

Yeah. Now. Yeah. Pretty much. I didn't know that. Pretty much full time. Yeah. Spending time with people. Yeah. Or I'm, or I'm Skyping all the time. Yeah. And there's management that needs to happen with that. Yeah. It just happens. Yeah. There's no, there's no one here going, oh, you know, have I taken on too many people today? Or what time? Oh, no, I'm, I'm 10 minutes over this Skype call because I'm. Yeah. Yeah. None of that shit happens. It just. So there's still a doing that happens here. There's just no doer. Do we consider the breath you just took? Yeah. Or the heartbeat that just happened?

Or the food being digested? Or the cells being replaced there? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Only in the thinking. When we take a concept and a idea, I don't think we've got to do something. All the other things are happening naturally. With regard to waking up, it's more obvious, that there isn't, you know, that there isn't a single person running the show. And it's also worth saying, you know, consciousness, you can't divide it up. You can't split it up. It's, you know, this is Jesus consciousness. That's what a conscious, not consciousness. You know, you can't split up consciousness. consciousness is it's already here so there's nothing to wake up to it's just that it becomes more and more obvious that I'm not running the show you know yeah and I can I can definitely feel that and Kat you said before that it's a moment to moment thing and and that's yeah because sometimes I think I think I've already woke up but it's just in these little moments and then I have what's happening at the moment is a contraction as you described before hormones can really be quite a strong thing at different times and the may becomes quite strong when that's charging through your body and things like that but then you know then you have this just complete understanding and it actually happens at times that people lose the functionality in life like a cartoli is telling the story He is telling the story of sitting on the bench.

He had the university career going on and he just dropped it. I didn't drop off the ships. I actually did another contract when my breakthrough happened. I went to travel the world. I went to a few countries, went to Europe, to Asia. Then I went to the ship and I was fully functional. All the skills were totally available. And if not for the situation that changed in my life, that I moved in with Bob and I was needed here, I would probably be a captain right now and make $1,500 per day and it would be just fine. It's just that I never really had that much of the high ambition towards the career at sea.

I loved it. I loved it with all my heart. But because the life put me in a different situation, different things were needed, it dropped off naturally without any sort of mourning or any sort of regret, any sense of loss. But functionality was there. The last contract I did was totally effortless. There was no disturbance or anything, even though my world was upside down, was completely different. But I knew that the body and the skills, just like Bob said, breathing, heart beating, I doesn't do it. I doesn't do the seeing. I doesn't do the driving. So the I that wasn't there anymore didn't do anything before and it doesn't do anything now and never did anything at all.

It's just that I didn't do anything before. I didn't do anything at all. I didn't do anything at all. I didn't do anything at all. I didn't do anything at all. I didn't do anything at all. It's just the credit-taking pattern. But yes, there were situations where the so-called recognition happens gradually and slowly and it drops off like Dave is saying, moment to moment, oh, okay, catching yourself like Terry was saying. And there are also situations when there is a tip-over point, which is a huge breakthrough. And for some people, it goes with homelessness. But there is a joy. There is a happiness. There is a happiness.

There is a passion. There is love. So there is no sense of loss. There is no, the suffering is less than it was. It doesn't happen that often statistically, although I don't know how good the statistics are today. But this seems like it's more and more availability of the people who don't suffer anymore. Well, you may actually have people at work who work nine to five and who don't take any credit for anything. They don't take anything personally. I was mentioning once on the show. On the meeting, I have a couple of old people that I look after. They are living in that state. They don't have language for it.

They don't label it. But they're always present. I never heard them imagining or worrying about the future or roaming about the past. I never heard them being anywhere else than here now engaged fully with the quality, 90-year-old, the quality of attention and alertness, totally unthinkable among people that I know. So spot on. And the girl I was talking about before. I'm a professional dentist. I'm an open-minded dentist. The way, you know, I even spoke of her roughly through just she says, oh, you know, when I was younger, I was taking everything personally and I was so, so taken by everything what people tell or talk or think about me.

Now, these things are completely irrelevant. They're ridiculous. They're lovable. How would she know that? And if you take the implication of that one statement, run a lot of people, may be among us, who are living that life, who are naturally kind, they will be aggravated when hormones come up or something, but they are not nasty in their hearts, they are not wishing anyone bad, because they don't suffer themselves. The nastiness comes from the suffering, like people who are happy they actually tend to share the joy and happiness, and people who are suffering, comparing themselves constantly with others and having that sense of loss and dissatisfaction, they are a little bit more picky and a little bit more nasty.

But even they are not the doers. Even they are fully innocent. And this is what I wanted to add because Terry beautifully answered the therapist questions and somebody acknowledged you on, you will see it on the comments. The one thing the therapist, and every one of us is a therapist once in a while, when you speak to your sister or your mother and you actually hear them, you hear them from the heart, you give them that space for expression. Every therapist can also remember who the other person is. If they don't remember, they are through nature and you remember it. You know they are not the doers.

You know that they are products of the whole universe. Every single pattern, every thought, every reaction is actually coming up from the doers. And that is the database through which the whole universe contributed. So none of them is the doers, none of them chooses. Even though when we speak to them we will be talking, okay you have to take the decision, you have to make a choice, what would you prefer? That's a conventional language. At the same time we know that this is life speaking to life. And that makes the moment like in Cursing Miracles would say holy instant. This is the holy moment. This is the moment in which the potentiality of realization is there.

Normal story, time stamp, quote. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, but Geoffrey Martin was saying about, actually he was talking about people living in the basement of their children's houses because they were either having the breakthrough or they were deepening in realization. And they just weren't interested in interacting with the world anymore. But let's be honest. Every one of us can just end up work having stroke. I mean it can happen. The probability that self-realization will debilitate you is much, much, much smaller than the car accident or indigestion or any sort of a disease. So worrying about it, let's worry about the stroke. And the fact is we have no control over it anyway.

If it happened, when it happened, how it happened, how it happened, we don't know. And the truth is it is happening already all the time. Your realizations and your insights, yes, moment to moment you can say, oh my gosh, I'm awake right now. There is no story that I'm believing right now. There is no story that I'm believing right now. I'm just open, I'm hearing, I'm listening. You listen to the music. There's no commentary going on. That's the awakening. Are you eating your meal and you're fully with the taste of it? And there's no story, no narrative, no commentary going on. That's the awakening. They call it ordinary awareness.

Yeah, I love that. That's great. Yeah. And this is ordinary awareness like the animals, you know, cats and dogs. They don't have the overlay of imagination and interpretation that covers up that natural state. Natural state is like in nature. It's natural. It's only the conceptualizing that makes it, that obscures it and makes it unbearable. Yeah. And all of us, many, many times throughout the day, are in the natural state. We just overlook it because the attention is all the time in the mind. So when the mind drops off, there's no memory. So suddenly, okay, I was in the talk, in the story, in the mind, in the mind, in the mind.

And then for one hour, I was nowhere and I don't even remember that hour because there's nothing to remember. There was no talk. But if we kind of learn to recognize those moments, we will very, very soon realize how many of them is happening already. And then we will appreciate those moments. And then this is watering the flowers instead of watering the weeds. If we actually acknowledge the moments when we are free in the natural state, not believing a story, then those moments will be coming up like flowers. But instead, we beat ourselves up for the thinking. Oh, my gosh, I was dreaming again. Oh, my gosh, I was interpreting again.

No, what we do, we water the weeds. Put the attention. Put the light on. Put the life energy on the weeds, on the things that we don't want in life. How ridiculous. The result is going to be opposite. Of course, we're going to have more of what we don't want because that's where the investment went, where the attention went. Instead of recognizing the natural state and realizing how often and how much it is there and just appreciating it, just, yeah, the natural gratitude comes up with it. The natural joy comes up with it of recognition what is already there innately. And then the same recognition will come up even when the story is there.

But the story will not take full attention. The story will take part of the attention, just like a hearing in the background, let's say smelling in the background, and then the story in the background. But in the foreground is the consciousness realizing, oh, my gosh, even though there is a story, I am. I am that I am. Shit. It's like an absence of self-centered. And you do experience that. We do experience that through the course of the day. We do. It's just that the reason it's often not recognized is because when it's being experienced, we're absent. It's not until the me starts to kick in again that then the me goes, I was absent and now I'm back.

Damn. Water in the weeds. Yeah. That's water in the weeds. Yeah. Good one. Yeah. Damn, I'm back. I try to encourage people when that is realized, compassionately warm to that fact. Ah, okay. I've just seen, I've been really caught up. I've just seen. I've been really caught up. For the last however long. Whoa, there goes that again. Instead of you idiot, you were caught up again. And that's water in the weeds. Do you want to say something? Yeah, we better. We're going over time. Oh, that's what we want to say. Weed. Good one. Oh, I've just created time for you. It's way, way, way too long.

I'm sorry. I'm sorry. What's the matter with you? He asked, where's the water coming from? Yeah, I had no idea. A sand dung, I just, I just got this in my mind. Give me a minute and I'll tell you what's going on. There was a tank up there. There was a tank before you. I see. There was a tank before you. And you just, you just went, I think there's one right there. Wait, isn't there some left over water? There was a tank there. Oh, there's one. Oh, there is. So, there's a tank. There's actually two of them right there. Right. There's a tank right there.

Do you know where it was? There's a tank. There's a tank. Oh, there's a tank. See what I mean? There's a seeming belief that there's something there that can be unhappy. And you're just that natural spontaneous function. Thank you everyone for what's been done. Beautiful stuff.