This transcript was made by speech-recognition software, so names and some words may be misheard. The recording is the original: watch on YouTube.
John, what brought you here? I read books, spiritual books, and I've just been reading John Wheeler's book, Conversations, his dialogue with you. And I just googled Sailor Bob Adamson and said, My God, he's in Melbourne! He's only been here since 1976. Well, there you go. Something must have resonated. Oh, it does. It absolutely resonates. Ask all the questions you can, because that meditation's on the way out when it starts to resonate. I've been meditating for 15 years and he's only got a sore ass. I wouldn't put meditation down that much. I really enjoy it. You're being fast-tracked. The true meditation is when there's no one to meditate on and nothing to meditate on.
That is what they call meditation. That's what I call undistracted non-meditation. If you meditate, you're distracted from the non-meditation. That's naturally happening all the time. That's not a concept. You know, one of the problems that so-called spiritual people have is that they hear about this thing called enlightenment. And we've all had peak experiences. So if you're really honest... Except Harold. If you're really honest, what we've all done is we weave this description of enlightenment, whatever it is, from whatever source we've got it, we weave it with our peak experiences and think, oh yeah, that's pretty close, or whatever. And it becomes a burden. Even a peak experience becomes a burden if it's just a memory.
And we go searching for it again, because how can you ever get it again? You might have something similar. And then you add that to that. You get this burden that we're going searching for. And the beauty of what's being pointed out here, and this is your first time, so maybe it might take a little while for you to see King. And it took me many months for us to see King. Might be the last time he comes, then. He'll be sick of us. He might jump off the bridge or something. Come on, we've got to be... I'm sorry to interrupt, Alan. It's beautifully simple.
And one of the first things Bob said to me when I came to my first meeting was, or said to everybody, what you're seeking you already are. And for my mind, that was like, hang on, I'm missing something here. Oh, I... The thing is we try to conceptualize it, and then try and grasp it with a concept. It's non-conceptual. How much do you think conceptualizes it? I think it's conceptualizing about it all night. Yeah. When I get back to the point, well, so what? Exactly. So what? Now it is rebelling. I knew it. I'm not rebelling. I'm getting years of questions out of you. What?
So what? Well, say that... Be with the so what. Just be with the so what. See what happens. And you do have insights. If you get all that garbage out of the way, and it falls away naturally, and it's just a burden, then you do have insights, because you're open to seeing things fresh and new. So the conclusion is that I'm kidding myself, isn't it? Yeah, well... You're in a club, right? We can stop it right now.