This transcript was made by speech-recognition software, so names and some words may be misheard. The recording is the original: watch on YouTube.
The meditator... It's a great thing that you don't have to go on to 30,000 lifetimes. No, because your meditator is trying to become anyone. Yeah. See, the meditator is a fiction. Enlightenment is a fiction. So it's trying to become this conceptual image of God, and it'll never happen. It'll never happen. It'll just go there. See, meditation thoughts just go, and you're just left with... Pardon? In meditation, thoughts aren't there. You're just left with awareness. Yeah. What is that? When you get up, what happens? Well, it's not gone, because I feel brighter and lighter and clearer and happier. Without straining at it, something's happening. It's like, if not, then it's left to the intellect to find its way through.
Well, if thoughts are gone when you're in a meditation, there's no thinking there. That's what we're talking about. No thinking. But then, does it go on? Doesn't the thinker come back? Thinking comes back. Thinking comes back. Yeah, thinking comes back, but isn't it divided again into the thinker and the thoughter, or is it just meditating? Sometimes it is, but if it's not, then there's just... There's what? There's just a whole mess, the world, my life. You know, it's just nothing's changed. There's just no great insights, no great knowledge, no wisdom of Solomon. You know what you're looking for. What are you looking for? Well, you know, I'm looking for a lease, I think.
Some sort of... Some... Well, not the sages talk about the, you know, the compelling vision. And it's good. And that's... The peak experiences give you some sort of insight into some space, I must think. It sounds like spiritual materialism to me. You know, being the title of the book. But can you deny it, your peak experiences? Yeah, but who is it? Who is it that's having the experience? Or what's having the experience? Well, it's... It's an experience like... There's something conscious that's observing the experience, right? And that's what Bob's talking about. Is outside time and space. And is self-aware. It's whatever you want to call it.
Conscious awareness of the self. It's always there, as Bob's saying. And all these experiences, peak, highs, lows, ups, downs, lefts and rights, everything, thoughts, concepts, feelings, perceptions, all those things, are appearing and disappearing in this awareness which is constant. That's the only thing that's real. And this is basically his teaching. I don't know if I'm compelling you to think that's so accessible, but... You have an experience. It implies there is an experience there. Having this peak experience. Now the experience, as we pointed out, is conception. Just a mental image. And the experience is another concept. The actual function is experiencing. There couldn't be an experiencer without experiencing.
And there couldn't be the experience without experiencing. So what is basically going on is the experiencing. Without the subject or the object. It's been an experience. It's my experience. True, there's experiences there the whole time. But when we did talk about before that everything being energy and intelligence, and creative intelligence, and... That's a concept, as you talked about. But when I had my peak experience, that was no longer a concept. That was my living reality. My body had turned into energy. Little spots of light that was no longer... I had to intellectualize that concept, or conceptualize that. It was just the way it was. Well, did it turn into energy, or was the energy revealed?
It was just... All of a sudden my experience was different. The world was different. My body became... It was... You should be saying you are the energy, not what turned into energy. No, it's true. But it wasn't any longer something I had to think about or conceptualize. It just was. Was. It was. You're not what is. It's the crossroads. Yeah, but... Open your eyes now. It becomes a dead thing of the past. And if you go searching for something dead in the past, and make it happen again, you're ignoring what is. You know, see the difference? Because experiencing is only let down. Such a miserable idea.
For whom? For whom? This is your nightmare. How's the feeling there? I didn't have to think about it. Have a look. That's the way the world works. Who is this one that's let down? Have a look at it. Yeah, I know. I don't know.