This transcript was made by speech-recognition software, so names and some words may be misheard. The recording is the original: watch on YouTube.
Okay, so we'll start with the names from Capernaum. Jamie, Ben. Michelle. James. Sarah. Hema. Tony. Simon. David. David. Mary. Jerry. Tony. Okay, it's the usual which you've all heard before. You've all... there's no newbies here today, is there? All old-timers. You should have a pretty good grasp of it by now. So we'll run through it again. That's the main thing, to keep reminding yourself, if you get lost in the story, to come back to what is always ever-present and ever-aware. The natural essence or livingness or beingness that you are. Hey, you going up the back there, can you hear me? I must be throwing my voice at you.
Don't let it hit you too hard if I'm throwing it. Yeah. Yeah. Can't teach you anything and can't tell you anything because of that. What are we talking about? My friend Dan. What's your name? Where'd you hear about this? Do I live around here? No, no. I can hear. Us. This is Sarah. I'm not saying... I'm not speaking to anybody. I'm not speaking to any mind. That body-mind entity, you've taken to believe that you are, if you still believe you are that, that's not what I'm speaking to. That's not what I'm speaking to. What I'm speaking to is that I am, that I am. And the I am is not the thought I am, but the sense of presence that translates or expresses through the mind as that thought I am.
That's the primary thought, I am, the knowing that you are. That you realize that if you're not saying that I am, you still are, you can't negate it, can't teach you anything. And I can't tell you anything. Nobody, when you realize what we're pointing to, nobody can ever teach you anything or tell you anything. We only want, all we can do is realize or recognize or see what we're pointing to. What we're pointing to is realize why we can't teach you anything or tell you anything. And what we base all this teaching on is what all the ancient scriptures or texts or religions have been written about.
The one essence that's happening and shaping and forming and expressing is everything. Which most of them call God. But I don't use that here because you can get confused with what we're pointing to. Because everybody, we all come from different traditions, different backgrounds. Some of you might be atheists or agnostics, Christians, Hindus, Muslims, Buddhists, or Jews. And if I start talking about God, you'll take that conceptual idea you've got about what you believe there's God to be, you'll take that to be what we're pointing to. But we're not pointing to any concept or any word. We're pointing to what I call, for want of a better term, intelligence energy.
And I'm not talking about your intellect, I'm talking about intelligence. I'm saying look out there in nature and see how nature is functioning. Earth moving around the sun, seasons coming and going, tides coming in and out. All the activities that are going on, animals, birds, insects, and everything else. Volcanoes, tsunamis, and everything that's going on. Doesn't that imply all activity is nature? A natural functioning. There's nobody up there in the sky pulling strings that is gonna make this right or that right. So it's all happening spontaneously. So it's all happening spontaneously. So it's all happening spontaneously. So it's all happening spontaneously. So it's all happening spontaneously.
And if it's by itself. That's why I can't teach you anything. I can't tell you anything. And that you are no different from nature. When you realise. Aren't you a product of nature? So it's that same, what I call intelligence energy. It's a natural pattern. It's breathing you right now. It's beating your heart. Growing your hair and fingernails, digesting your food, replacing cells in your body. If you were the separate entity you believe yourself to be, all over yourself every day, are these cells being replaced? Is that breath going into the lungs properly? Is my heart beating correctly? Is food being digested? But you're not doing any of those things.
It's all happening naturally and spontaneously. There must be that essence. And they call it Advaita. Advaita translated means non-duality. And they try and describe non-duality by saying it's one without a second. Not two. In other words, that's all there is, is this one. And yet, in this room there seems to be more than one, Mary. You look outside, there's many. You look outside, there's all sorts of different patterns going on outside. It's how it's all appearing. That it's all the one. And that's why it's so simple when you recognise and understand it. Because it can only and ever be that oneness. Not the many. And Sat, another term for Sat, said Ananda, Sat is existence.
Anyone who is not existing is consciousness. Anyone who is unaware or unconscious right now, Ananda is loving to be, or happy to be, or they call it the bliss of being. People get hooked up on that term bliss. They think it's some great, wonderful state that you're never out of. But they also say that the manifestation is transient. It's constantly changing. So it's not going to be some state that you're never out of. All the patterns, shapes and forms that appear in it, which they call Maya, also Maya and illusion, or a phenomenal manifestation. It's constantly transient. And look at that body you call you.
You'll think it's the same you that's been around all the time. But it's not that same body. There's thousands of cells dying out right now and being replaced. You realise it, you don't recognise it. Because it's not something noticeable in the immediacy. But look back on it to what it was like five years ago or ten years ago. And you'll see it's constantly transient, constantly changing. The existence consciousness is bliss or loving to be. And nama, rupa are the other two factors of the five factors. Nama is name. And rupa is form. Have you ever got a name on yourself? And form, taking a form to be a human being, or a person, or a body.
And each one's got a separate name. And they tell you that nama, rupa is Maya. It is an illusion. That's the illusionary part. And look out there in nature again. See, everything you see you've got a name for. And it's got a different form. A tree's got different from a flower. And all the different pattern, shapes and forms of this manifestation appear again. But it's all Maya. It's all illusion. Seemingly very substantial and very solid. You investigate it and have a look into it. It can all be broken down into pure energy. And that energy can be broken down into subatomic particles. Into pure energy.
So it's nothing but vibrating patterns of energy. Which are constantly vibrating into different pattern, shapes and forms. And the Mahavaka, the great mantra they talk about is, I am that. Now you see that pattern, shape and form you put I on to express your existence through a name and form. You say I am. But you leave the that off it. I am this body. I am this person. But you are that totality. Always have been. Always will be. Though it might break down, it will break down into different forms later on. Where it came from into the essence. But everything in this manifestation is a seeming thing.
A seeming has a pattern, shape and form. They tell you, the great reality is no thing. And this manifestation is made up of things. You and I are things. And we're just a manifestation also. Can something come from nothing? What's the basic screen in which it all appears in? What's the basis it appears on? Can you postulate or think of anything outside of space? Everything, that's including you, me and everything else, is the content of space. Has space got any shape? Or any form? Has it got any static point? Has it got any beginning? Has it got any end? It hasn't. And silence, all the sounds, all the noises, sounds, noises, they might appear on that silence.
Silence is empty like space. Still like space. But vibrates, a movement of energy, and sounds form, patterns form, everything forms, in that basic screen of emptiness. Now the Buddha told you that thousands of years ago, and he called it a cognising emptiness. Cognising is knowing. Another name for cognising is knowing. You're knowing that you are. But you're not. But when he said a cognising emptiness, it's that emptiness that is knowing. So when he made that statement that emptiness is form, a cognising emptiness, and he turned it round the other way and said the form can be nothing other than emptiness. So you and I and everything else are appearing as these pattern shapes and forms.
Actually, that emptiness. That emptiness. No thing. The one essence, the pure intelligence energy that's vibrating, patterning, shaping, forming, and expressing and experiencing as everything. So you are already that. But what's the problem is we've taken ourselves to be these separate entities, these individuals, these persons. If you think you are a person, have you ever had a look and seen where that word person comes from? It comes from persona. The mask. An ancient language. Persona, the mask. And we've taken it on the label. And this image we've got about ourselves now is just a conceptual image based on past events, experiences, and conditioning. So we're constantly relating to this mask of concepts, which is now dead, not keeping up with life.
So we're constantly relating to a dead image. And no wonder we're always unhappy and fearful and anxious and depressed. Guilty, shameful, remorseful. Because look, we're not keeping up with life. We're taking this dead image and trying to keep up with life, but it can't. Because life is ever fresh and free and new. It's spontaneous. It's got no duration to it whatsoever. Time is duration. And if you look at that and ask yourself, when does now begin? Try and grasp it, you will have to say it's beginning right now. But even as you're saying that, it's moving on. It's disappearing. And when is it ending? You say as it's beginning, it's ending.
And as it's ending, it's beginning. So life is not duration. It's spontaneous. Ever fresh, ever new. A spontaneous emanation. And you are that life. That's what Christ told you a couple of thousand years ago or more ago. He said, I am the life. I am the way. I am the truth. I am the life. He wasn't talking about himself. There's people. People think he was. He was talking about that sense of presence that expresses through the mind as the thought I am. It's not the thought I am that is the life or the conceptual image he's got around that life. It's the sense of presence that forms that pattern, shape and form, a life energy.
And that is what you are. That is what you've always and ever been and ever will be. But we've taken on the belief that we are this person. we are this persona and so we think we're going to become something. We look into this, investigate it, repeat this mantra, go to the Satsang, read this book. We will become something. Becoming is not being. Being is the actuality of this meaning. Becoming implies a future time. Now you need to investigate this concept of time. Is there such a thing as time? We believe there is, but if you investigate and look at it, you'll see that time is duration.
Not being right now. You call yourself a human being and you believe in this thing called God, you call God the Supreme Being. What happens if you take that label Supreme off and the label human off and then try and separate the beingness in this room for a start off? And you realize that's being itself. That's being the chair, that's being the carpet, that's being the cat, that's being you, being me, being the lights. Everything is nothing but that pure being, which we put labels or words on. And you've got to understand the word is not the thing. It tells you in the Bible, in the beginning was the word.
The word was with God, the word was God. That's all God is, is a word. All things were made by him, by the word. And that's the celebration of the word. All these things we discriminate, trees, flowers, you, me, and everything. We put labels or words on the one manifestation. There was nothing made that was made without the word. And that's what we're doing. We're putting words and labels on everything. We take those words, human and supreme off, you've just got the beingness. Take the word I or me or you or this one, whatever you've got, you've just got the beingness. You can't negate the being.
And being is not will-being or was. It is the actuality, the spontaneous happening that's going to actually remember your birth. And you'll say, no, I can't actually remember my birth. Why? Purely and simply because you didn't have any words. How can you go back to remember something you haven't got words for? And when did you learn words? You didn't learn words until you were about two, two and a half, or somewhere over that age, when the capacity of reasoning developed in you. Before that age, little child, little baby, can't read. It's seeing, it's hearing, tasting, touching, smelling. Hasn't got any concepts or words to relate things to.
Go back and have a look at it. If you can't remember your birth, when did you begin? These things need to be investigated. That's what we ask you to look at. Investigate. See for yourself. The false cannot stand up to investigate. If we've got these, all these erroneous beliefs we've taken on, and constantly reinforcing every day, through everybody around us, as we reinforce, you know? They're wandering in all these problems, psychological, fearful, anxious, problem. The false cannot stand up to investigate and say, look at these things. Are you this body, mind? Innately, you already know, I'm not the body. Don't you say my body, don't you say my house, my car, my coat, you know damn well you're not the house, the car, or the coat, Whose are they?
Are they this my, you're talking about it, me or my, saying my body? Are you the mind? Again you'll say my mind. If you think you are the mind, show me a thing called mind. What can you say mind is? You realise there's no such thing as mind apart from thought. And if mind is thought and you believe you are the mind, which thought would you be? You believe I am this, I am thought, this sense of presence. And if you were that thought, you'd be frightened of losing sight of it. If you believe you are this mind or this thought, you'd be frightened of losing sight of it.
You're glad to give up thought every night when you go to sleep. You must realise I'm up to thought. And what is thought? Thought can be broken down to a vibration, to a movement of energy. Thought is a vibrating movement of energy. Look at this mind, you say my body. I hear this body, is this body made up of investigators? You'll see this body is made up of elements. Air, earth, fire, water, space. Well if you think you're separate, stop breathing, stop taking in the air. See how long you'd last without that. Take the water out of your body, your body is 8% water. Take the fire, the body temperature, it's going to get hypothermic and die.
Get off the earth if you can, get out of space. So you're not separate, remember any of these things. So you can break the body and mind down. Now when did you go back to your birth? When did you begin? You can't remember your birth but we'll go back as far as your father and your mother. That animating life essence has patterned, shaped and formed your father. Enabled in that pattern through the essence of the food he's eating and the breath, a little microscopic particle called a sperm to form. You can't see it but you make it eye. But that sperm suffused with innate intelligence and knew what to do.
The same in your mother. That animating life essence has patterned, shaped and formed your mother. Again through the food she's eating and the prana, the air she's breathing. Enabled in that pattern a little micro-spawn. It's got what are called an egg or an ovum to form that pattern. The ovum was suffused with intelligence. It knew what to do. It attached itself to the wall of the uterus. And the sperm knew what to do. It swam to the ovum. It wasn't just another blob of glue. It knew what to do. It had the capacity of swimming. And the sperm knew what to do. And the ovum knew what to do.
And the egg knew what to do. It knew what to do. The sperm swam to the ovum and penetrated the ovum. When those two came together, those cells doubled and doubled. And the little embryo and little fetus began to form. What were you doing about it then? If you think you're running the show now as this person, what were you doing about it then? When you didn't have any words, you didn't have any idea. But that life essence was there. And that's what you're doing. And that's what you're doing. And that's what you're doing. But that life essence was forming you. When you came out after nine months, you weren't born with any words.
Otherwise you'd be able to remember your words. Otherwise you'd be able to remember your words. And you didn't learn any words. You'd live for the next two years, two and a half years or something like that before you learnt any words. But you realise that every word you've ever spoken and ever likely to speak has been learnt. It's not something you were born with. It's been acquired or picked up or learnt. It's not something you were born with. It's been acquired or picked up or learnt. You're probably still learning new words to this day. There's thousands of words we haven't learnt yet. Or I'm forgetting a lot of them now.
The whole memory's going a bit. And so you've got to understand that the word is not the real. It's not the thing. I've got words or labels or limiting. The label's not the thing. Take the word water. Take the word water. Can you drink the word? Can you wash in the word or swim in the word? Will you drown in it? You can't. Does the word fire burn your mouth when you speak it? Can you cook with it? Can you heat yourself with it? What's this word I or me we've put upon ourselves? When we started to learn words at about two, two and a half.
Our parents fussing around us telling us you're little Johnny or little Billy, you're a good boy, you're this, that and the other. And you learn other words like I and me and that. That's when the capacity of reasoning develops in you at about two. Before that capacity of reasoning you don't know any words. But watch the little child. He's seeing, he's hearing, he's tasting, touching, smelling. He's not putting any labels on things. If he likes something, he'll gurgle. If he doesn't like it, he'll cry. He's just functioning spontaneously, naturally and effortlessly. Now with this capacity of reasoning we start to learn words like I and me.
What our parents tell us they teach words like I and me and you realise I, this I and this I. Parents tell you little Johnny or little Billy, I am little Johnny. The I am on those words. You say little Billy or little Johnny whatever your name is, I am little Johnny. Now when this sense of capacity of reasoning comes upon him he looks out there and he says well that doesn't fit little Johnny. That's not I. That's not me. And that's when the sense of separation comes from. You see something now that you don't understand. He doesn't know. He hasn't learnt the words yet and now he sees something he can't relate it to what he believes himself to be.
And that's when the separation comes upon us. At that point we become separate, insecure and vulnerable. Because now we're facing something we don't know anything about and don't understand. So we're fearful about it, a bit anxious about it, insecure about it. And that's when our problems start. What we've done with this I or me, we can't do much with that either. What we've done with it, it's added onto it I'm Bob, they tell me, I'm the Australian, I'm a good fellow, I'm not so good, I've had a bad childhood, I'm fearful or I'm anxious or I'm unhappy. All these concepts are added onto it. And I form a conceptual image about myself.
Which we call a reference point, the self centre or the ego. It's all related to the self and it's a conceptual image. And relationship or relativity is dualism. And remember we're talking about non-duality. Non-duality, one without a second, not two. Now as I'm relating to all these other things, it's me and the not me. Me and other than me. And the other than me is something I'm not sure of, I can't understand, I'm fearful and anxious about it. So this capacity of reasoning can be very useful. And it's the capacity these humans have, which is the capacity of reasoning, is more developed than what it is in other animals, birds and insects.
Like a bird for instance, can see better than what you can be. They have other capacities more developed than what our capacity of reasoning is. A bird can see better, its eyes are much better at seeing what yours and mine are. It can fly. We can't do those things naturally. But with the capacity of reasoning, we've learnt to build ourselves eyeglasses, binoculars or telescopes, which enable us to see better. Or planes, helicopters or balloons or things like that enable us to fly. A dog has a sense of smell, the capacity of smelling much more better than us. Chameleons and insects like that can change colour at that capacity.
We can't do that. Moths and butterflies form cocoons and things like that, and they hatch out. Grubs hatch out in that. And all the beautiful colours of the butterfly or the moth are in that little grub. Pea fowl egg is just the same as any other egg. Yolk and white in it. But when it hatched out, what's in it? All those colours, the beautiful colours are in a pea gull. Pea fowl are there. Then we've got this capacity of reasoning which is useful, but it's self-destructive. Because that same capacity tells me I'm not good enough. I'm fearful. I'm anxious. I'm unhappy. I'm depressed. I've had a bad childhood.
All these concepts that I've had are added onto that old and that's what we've done. We've formed this conceptual image about myself and everything comes relative to that. And out of that comes fear, anxiety, stress, guilt, shame and remorse and all my psychological suffering. So this belief in the me or self-centred or referenced by it, this ego, which we say when you look at it as a fiction that doesn't really exist, is the cause of all my psychological problems. And we tell you it doesn't have to be like that. But we've found that if you put the energy of belief into this conceptual, all these words we've learnt, and look up your dictionary, look up the definition of the word belief.
The definition of belief is an unquestioned acceptance in the absence of reason. Of something. In the absence of reason. Acceptance of an alleged fact without positive knowledge or proof. So if you put your belief to that test and start questioning it, you realise that the false cannot stand up to investigation. If you've got some false beliefs and you question them, they'll fall apart. Look at that, they've got many analogies they point out in nature. The blue sea, I say go down to the ocean and get me a bucket of blue water out of the sea. You say don't be ridiculous because you and I know the sea's not blue.
We've investigated it. Pull a bucket of water out and it's clear. Move away from it, it appears to be blue. People were told when they looked out to the sea and the sky met the horizon, don't go out there. You'll fall off the edge of the earth. Because they believed the earth was flat. Who'd believe it today? No one because it's been investigated. None of false beliefs has fallen apart. The water in the mirage. You're driving along the way and what appears to be water appearing in the mirage you drive up to, there's nothing there. When was there any water in it? There never ever was, never will be or never could be, but it appears to be so.
So appearance or seems to be all seem to be and needs to be looked at. Investigate this seeming idea that you are this individual, this person if you're interested in this. If you're not, forget about it. If you want to know the truth that's the whole scriptural saying know the truth and the truth will set you free. The only thing you can ever be free from is the freedom of belief from some of these believed in things. When you just as I say if you look at this how you use this body, how you use this mind when you investigate you see you can't pull possibly be the body or the mind.
They're conceptual images, you've got to be based upon past events, conditioning and experiencing they're dead images of that. How are you going to live happily and contentedly when you're relating to a dead image and trying to keep up with the ever fresh presence awareness that you naturally are. Anyone say though I'm not present right now? No, I am present. I'm existing. Anyone who's unaware or conscious? If I'm not unaware I must be aware I must be conscious. Anyone who's not happy to be? So you already are and only and ever have been and will be then. Do investigate this ego that we're relating to. That works, everything comes relative to this being.
Something comes up and I like it. How do you know? Well I've experienced this before it's good. And we don't want the good things to go. Not realise that no matter how much you love them how much you want to keep them there how much you want to hang on to them they're transient like everything else they're going to change. We don't want that to go so what do we do? We want to keep it there. Keep the good things there. So what do we do? We resist it. Try and keep it there by resisting it. Don't you realise that resistance is conflict? Any resistance you are in, you are in conflict with yourself.
Conflict makes you anxious, fearful, unhappy, depressed, guilty or uneasy. Another word for uneasiness is disease. Resistance, conflict and disease. That's what's going on all the time. There are brief periods when you can see through it and you have brief moments when everything is well but they don't smoothly and we don't last. Now the way around something comes up that I don't like. Well the same thing happens. The things I don't like, I don't like. So we try to get rid of them by forcing them out by resisting again. Well resistance, more conflict, more disease. That's all our life's made up of while we're believing in this believing entity.
Constantly brief periods when everything's alright but constantly going into the anxiety, the stress, the guilt, the unhappiness, the remorse, breaking up of relationships. All our problems are problems of relationships. Relativity. There's not much relationship in non-duality. If it's all the one essence appearing as everything where's the relativity? Where's the relationship? Relativity is the cause of all my problems. And that's what and the effects are the anxiety, the stress, the unhappiness, the psychological suffering. What's that in other words? Cause and effect or karma. That's all that so-called karma is is cause and effect. What happens if I ask myself the simple question Can there be an effect if I'm not relating to a cause?
You don't have to be a Rhodes Scholar to work that out either. If you're not relating to a cause where can the effect be? And when you understand the cause I'm relating to is the believed in me. This conceptual image which is a neo-identity needs to be investigated. Have a look. This ego is a fiction. It doesn't really exist. We're taken to believe when we have a question but it doesn't exist when you look into it. Well never look at it this way. Everybody's seeing right now and everybody's hearing. Isn't that a fact? When you opened your eyes this morning did you say now I'm going to start seeing?
No you didn't. The seeing was there immediately. You mightn't realise it's the same seeing you had all day. It's the same seeing you had last week last year and as far back as you can remember. That's the same seeing. The seeing hasn't changed you might believe it's changed because you haven't investigated it. The seeing hasn't changed at all but the concept, the content has changed. The content is constantly changing. The content when you wake up this morning was in your bedroom or wherever it was. It's coming here the content has changed again. As you're sitting here the content is still changing in this room. There's different movements and different things happening in it.
The seeing hasn't changed but the content has. The same with the hearing. You woke up this morning and your hearing was there if somebody called you loudly in deep sleep you'd have heard. So the hearing wasn't too far away. The hearing hasn't changed either but the content has changed. Ask yourself that. Investigate. I'm seeing through the eye. Ask yourself this. Does my eye tell me I see? My eye is not saying to me look at this, look at that. That's good or that's bad. My eye cannot say anything at all. But it is the instrument through which the seeing is happening. And it's translated by the thought.
I see. Now the thought I see is no longer a pure thought. Remember what we've done to it. We've added it onto I'm Bob the Australian, the good boy. We think this conceptual image, the thought up image is doing the seeing. The same with the hearing. My ear is not saying listen to this or listen to that. It can't say anything. But it's the instrument through which the hearing is happening. And that's translated by the thought I hear. Me Bob the Australian thinks you can see, you can hear. So anyone unaware right now? No. The awareness is there. Not existing though. The existence of the consciousness is there.
They're all there right there in the immediate sense. But we've put this conceptual image on. I see. I hear. But can the thought I see or can you say the seeing through the eye. The eye doesn't say I see. It was translated by the thought I see. Can the thought I see actually see? Well shut your eyes and look around the room and see what you can see with a thought. With your eyes closed. You can't see any of the objects in the room with your eyes closed. So the thought I see, can't see. Put your hands over your ears, blot your hearing out and see what you can see with the thought I hear.
You'll realise the thought I hear, can't hear. So this is egoic thought conceptual image. I can't see. Can't hear. You know damn well the seeing and the hearing is going on. But you think it's this thought that's doing it. It's not. It's conceptual image, this ego that's doing it. You're not unaware right now. So you must be aware. So the thought I am aware is not your awareness. We think we choose our thoughts. Well why would you have a happy, a miserable or an anxious thought if you could choose them? So the thought I choose can't choose. So you see this thought up image, can't do.
Can't see, can't hear, can't be aware, can't see. Can't do anything at all. So the ego is a fiction. And look at the way this thought functions. So you see thought functions, it's a vibration. It's always vibrating dualistically. Can't be any other way. Thinking is happening. It's either good or bad, past or future, pleasant, painful, happy, sad, loving, hating, positive, negative. Watch your mind and see if it functions any other way. And the boundaries we put upon are these words. Good, bad, pleasant, painful, happy, sad. If you take those boundaries off, where are you without the boundaries? Take the word off. Isn't it just a spontaneous activity then?
And this is where we point out that the ego is a fiction. Ask it, look along those lines, see for yourself. If you've got any questions, doubts or arguments about it, don't hesitate to bring them up. Don't be frightened about what somebody will think of you if they ask the wrong question. Because that's the conceptual image you've got about yourself. You're fearful. And you realise that everybody in this room will have a concept about you. And you will have a concept about everybody in this room. And you'll have a concept about yourself. This fictitious concept. Now which concept's right? When you realise that all concepts are just mental constructs.
And none of them the actual thing. No word that is the real. Who can ever be superior to you without a concept? Who can ever be inferior to you without a concept? And what would you want of the other persons without a concept? You see, the Buddhists tell you in the scriptures that the great perfection or the absolute is non-conceptual awareness. I'll give it to you in one sentence. It's non-conceptual awareness. Awareness without putting any concepts on it. They tell you presence, awareness, other things and all the rest of it. So there it is. So get into it. Some of you have got you know, recognised it a bit.
Tell others what you understand it. You know, might say it in different ways to what I do. People recognise it. And if you've got any doubts, arguments or things like that, bring them up. We'll investigate and see if they're real or not. A false cannot stand up to investigation. Yeah, sure. There's so much missing from your spiel. Getting old and getting fearful. No, no, you're brilliant. You covered it up. She's being silly. Yeah, he was all that 50 minutes talking about nothing. About the emptiness. What else can I add? Nothing. That's right. Perfection. Well, anybody else? You said the appearances appear on the screen, no?
Or what you call space. Yeah. I didn't care you were speaking this the last week or some other time too. So does the space and the appearance happen together? Or, I know you're going to have the screen in order to see the appearance, right? Or, you know, the forms take shape, right? But does the space is always there even though the appearance is not there? Or they just come together? To get one Easter bag or something like that? Everything appears on that screen. Like that mirror behind you. Have a look at that mirror. You're seeing it full of reflections, isn't it? Yeah. You can't say those reflections are not there.
You go up to the mirror and try and grab a reflection. What do you do? All you do is grab the mirror. So they appear to be there, but appear or seem to be there but they have no reality of them whatsoever. You dream at night and all the world appears to be there. When is it appearing? In that presence awareness, you know. When you wake up in the morning, where does it go? It disappears. It only seemed to be there. But we wake up into this as a waking dream. The only difference between the dream you're dreaming at night and this dream is this dream seems to have a continuity.
It seems to continue. It's a dream that you dream every night from where it left off, every morning from where it left off the night before. The dream you have at night, sleep at night, disappears. It's gone forever. You can only remember fragments of it after a while. Not even that. I'll reword it. Manifestation appears on the screen. So before manifestation is there a screen or not? Or do they come in together? That's the question I'm asking. Well, if there wasn't a screen, how will they ever appear? Do they appear together? Or is the screen always there and then manifestation happens onto it? Yeah. Things appear and disappear.
In other words, the screen is awareness. Or presence. So the screen's always there. So the space that Terry was talking about last week is always there and then manifestation happens onto it. Yeah, but you could equally say that space doesn't exist because it's empty. It's not a thing. It's a solid screen, like a projection. I understand. See, because very often people get stuck in it. They believe that they have to find the awareness now as an object. It's very easy to look at it because in the manifestation, the form and the emptiness, maybe it's a little bit easier to go into hearing and then you have silence and the sound.
Does silence exist or doesn't? Does silence have to be there for the sound to appear or not? Do they appear or disappear simultaneously? Or does it just appear? Your question is totally valid. But I'm just... And I know you understand it. But because there's going to be a few hundred more people listening to it that wouldn't have the chance to ask the question, I want to clarify that it's not really that awareness or the screen has an existence and on top of that existence there's forms coming because form is emptiness. So the appearance of the screen is emptiness. It is aware emptiness. It's not completely void, dull, stupid kind of nothing.
It's alive emptiness. But you can't even say that it is. Just like the silence, it isn't. Silence is an absence of the sound. But then the sound appears. But sound is also just a vibration. It doesn't have the solidity to it. So it is really the best and the kind of the more sensible thing is not to really go in too deeply into trying to dissect it and analyze it and grasp it with the intellect. Intellect always comes and objectifies things. So now awareness is an object and I am the subject. Because the mind does not get the idea that I am the awareness. Because come on, I can't know what I am because otherwise I wouldn't be myself to verify it.
So it's a great question to actually just bring back the emptiness and form together, the silence and sound together, the manifestation and the screen together. It's not separate. It's non-duality. It's only one. Before you were born, do you think there wasn't any space there? What could you have been born into? If there wasn't any space there, what could you have been born into? So that was the whole basic space. Can't say it is or is not. Just things, pattern shapes and forms appear in it. But it's not separate. It's not separate. It's not just a play around. Nassar Gadaba says too, in Iron Bash, the oneness or the unicity or the totality in its oneness can't know itself.
So that's why we're here. You know. If you know what I mean. It's in its unicity it can't know itself. So it manifests as form. But form is emptiness. Emptiness is form. It's not just about what came first. The chicken or the egg. Yes. And I had what you said, Kat, similar to what you said. That's what he wants to know. Yeah, what's wrong with right now is he doesn't think about it. It's the mind. And it's natural and it's good to ask the questions until they are exhausted. Exactly. It's also good. It's also good to find the comfort in the fact that you will never really know it intellectually.
Because it is unknowable. It is unspeakable. It's the icing on the cake. Yes. It is just to say, I have no idea and be okay with that. I will never ever grasp it and know it intellectually. Or I, the I that is sometimes a devastating statement. There is no enlightenment for the ego. The one that wakes up is already awake. It's the consciousness. It's the I that stands in the way. So it's the I, when the I is seen for what it is, just a veil of concepts that is not even real, then the consciousness stands still, awake always, as ever. So the one that wants to answer the questions, that one will never get it.
Never. They realise it's all spontaneous. What or who could come first? If it's spontaneous. You can be a scientist and dissect it and see. Well you can, but... Yeah, you can try. It's exhausting, but go for it. Investigate time as long as there is any duration in time. Is there a past if you don't think about it? Is there a future if you don't think about it? You'll say, I was in the past. I'll say, try and live yesterday. Try and live last week. You can't. You can recall it. The only actual way you're giving it is when you're recalling it at this moment. Because nobody in this room can tell me what you thought of a minute ago now, unless you recall it.
Time is just conceptual. So it's all spontaneous. Sometimes I used to remember my dreams and I would have eight, nine, ten dreams at night. I would just write one sentence about it. Some of them lucid dreaming. Some of them dreams that would last for hours. But the physical time that was passing was a couple of minutes. In two minutes I would dream an hours, hours long dream. In half an hour I would dream a couple of weeks dream. So that's how relative time is. And how fleeting the time is. You wait for something exciting and it takes forever. Like being a kid and waiting for vacation.
Oh my God. But you're running late for something and time is all gone. It's just mental construct. The good thing to actually look at reality, what is real, is see what is real in the absence of thinking. Like Bob said, non-conceptual awareness. Awareness without concepts, without ideas put on it. So without the idea of time, is it a time? Without concept or mental images or memories. Do I have a past? Have I ever been born? Is there a yesterday? Without a memory coming back to the head. Concept. So it is concept, it's conceptual awareness. Without the concepts, what am I left with? What's left without any images or thoughts?
Even the image of me sitting as a body is an image. In the experience, if I don't have mental image or thought about sitting here as a body, it's just this. It's just being. It's just plain sense of existence that can't be denied. And that's the only thing we know for sure. Yes. Is that we are. The rest of it's a story. And all conflict arises when we're in the memory. The concept of me, you know, and the rest of it's a story. As Bob was saying before, relative to the other. So when you really truly, truly see that, you know, it's just a travelling lighter.
Yeah. And then finding delight in the pure existence. In really living with senses, sensory understanding of the world, hearing sounds. Instead of sitting in the head and commenting everything. Just seeing things, hearing sounds. Just being completely present and thinking that's what's happening. If the commentary comes, because of course, you know, that narrative self, it's been there since we learned the language. Two, two and a half, Bob says, when the reasoning, we had enough words to actually, ah yeah, okay, cat is going to the toilet, cat is hungry, whatever. We still use the third person initially. But then later on, as that narrative self learned to use I, now it's not cat is hungry, I am hungry.
And I mentioned there that I am the narrative self. The narrative self is who I am. The voice in my head is my identity. And growing up for years and years, listening to that narrative self, to that voice, and identifying stronger and adding more into it, and creating that mental construct out of it. Now it's not so easy to just see through it. Because apart from that investment of years of feeding it with attention and belief, we have everyone else doing it as well. So, it's not so easy, it's actually impossible for that construct to see its own falseness. Because the construct can't see. Construct is blind.
It can't see. It is only held up together by the belief. Just like we used to hold together the idea of Santa Claus by belief. So what can see through that mental construct of the me, with capacity of seeing and memorizing and all that, is the pure consciousness. It's the pure consciousness that is always here, always present, always aware. This undeniable sense of existence. That one. In the absence of that veil of concept, that costume, that acting, that mask, Bob calls it mask, that we put on ourselves. Persona. Oh, you're asking us awareness. Answer us awareness. Come on, tell us. From the point of view of awareness, I don't get it.
See, as something beautiful changes during the time. And during the changes in my thoughts and feelings, that beauty is something neutral or something obvious. But because awareness never changes without any changes or movements or ups and downs, left and right. Yeah. Is beauty something real that also we can experience? What is beauty? I would start from actually wondering what you mean by awareness, because sometimes people pointing in non-duality put on a kind of additional concept that kind of helps distinguishing a little bit. And I think Nisargadatta was doing it also. The consciousness. Awareness is like pure emptiness. Awareness is there when you go to sleep, your eyes are closed, you're not dreaming.
The awareness is still there, the presence. But the consciousness is awareness filtered by cognitive functions of the brain. And that is showing up as being capable of labeling things, noticing, making sense of things. That's the consciousness. And now you will call beautiful something else than I will call beautiful. And of course it will also change, because this is the machinery there, the analyzing, the whole conditioning that goes with it. So whether the awareness is conscious of anything or aware of anything, well, what Bob says, spirit does not matter. When you say the spirit doesn't know matter, awareness is unconscious, I would say. Spirit is essence.
Matter is like congealed spirit. You've got blood that flows and it congeals it so it sets. Or steam, water and ice. When it's steam, you can call it like spirit, you don't see it. But when it becomes ice, it's something material. Spirit and matter are one and the same. Everything is the absolute. Understand that. The great perfection, they tell you, the great perfection is non-conceptual awareness. What's perfection? What can you add to the perfect? Nothing. Wouldn't be perfect. What can you take away from the perfect? Nothing. Or the absolute. What can you add to the absolute? So it's all that absolute that's going to appear in many different patterns, shapes and forms.
And where's it judged from? If anyone is judging or evaluating. Where from? Some personal aspect. Believed in personal. To the me, I or me, or whatever you think you are. What you consider beautiful might be ugly to something else. And have a look at the way the essence has formed that body. All the different organs and things like that inside that body. You know, pull that, cut you open, cut them out and it might be too good looking. A shit bag could look a bit ugly. But overall it's the one body. It's all the absolute. This is another aspect and I don't know, maybe this is what you meant.
That sense of beauty which comes from completely from beyond the mind. When you are mind blown. Like you know, you are experiencing a part of existence or something dawns on you. You know, you see the stars, night sky or any you know, the moments in which there is no judge here. There is no commentary going on in the head. The moments when you basically the whole appearance stops and you are in a sense of awe. Like, oooh. You know, that sense of beauty we call it beauty or we call it love or we call it sense of oneness or union or something. I would say that moments are happening when the mind is not.
When there is nothing going on and you see the ordinary sense of beauty is something that stands out. So, you know, you see a beautiful car and then all black or grey and then suddenly a yellow one. Ah, that's beautiful or ugly because you can see it. Trees, you know, the whole forest or even ladies, whatever. I mean, whatever. We kind of see beautiful something that is not ordinary. But there is a possibility to see absolute beauty in the ordinary. This is when the comparing mind that analyses and judges is not. When that mind is absent and this moment of insight when everything opens up and then, phew.
That's when you really truly see. Yeah. Yeah, because it's a concept of the beauty rather than the beauty itself. Yeah. Because it's a labeling of the beauty or the beautiful. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, I love that question. Yeah, I love it too. I love to look at this. I mean, you know. That's wonderful. It's good. You know, you don't know but once you ask question you start looking into it. There is just kind of like a collective contemplation. If anyone else has something to add, please. Because we're going to get a nice juicy result of it. I'm sorry, I cannot remember which one of you.
Somebody told me, you have any question. No, not at the moment, but it comes by hand. Yeah, that's right. Usually you have the wild feeling and then you have the labeling and then it's boring. That's what happens here. Voice from beyond. Voice from beyond. If something is beautiful, mind, attitude, by definition it all... Absolutely, because everything changes. That's the only constant. If you love something today, you're going to hate it tomorrow or maybe in ten years. But everything changes. That's the rule, the impermanence. Nothing stays the same. And even if you still consider it beautiful, it will be different. Never. Yes. This dog shit. This dog shit.
A fast pointer. So any conditioning or any attempt in the story of me can just continually be dropped in the immediacy. Like there's no one dropping it, but it's recognized and dropped. Because sometimes there's this thing like, okay, I've been brought up like this in this environment, therefore I'm acting like this in certain ways. But it's like, this behavior is happening because of past events. But that can continually be dropped in the immediacy, which means I don't have to be bound by past events. Exactly. And some are unfixated over here. You're not fixating on them. Let it all go. And also waking up is the moment to moment experience.
Because the story will seduce you all the time. There will be always a potential of commentary over the story. But it's not always the same. But to wake up from it without that sense of, oh yeah, this is horrible, I'm doing it again, I'm selfing again, I hate myself, I hate that. No. Waking up from it, woo, that's an amazing little story. But now I know it's a story. Good or bad, pleasant or painful, it doesn't matter. The moment the story is seen as a story, it is already loved. Because it is the way the awareness of the totality expresses. Even if just a moment ago I told you a story about myself and I saw it, it lasted for 15 seconds.
Whoa, that's a good one. My gosh, I'm glad I don't believe it anymore. But it's nice to see it because I can see a miracle. Yes, sometimes, well, like if you look at the animals, they have it the same. If something attacks the animal, animal will go into their defense. And it will be a feeling of anger. It will be like Bob is talking about the rope and the snake. You get all the emotion going with it. But again, recognized, well, it may not drop immediately. If there is a lot of cortisol and adrenaline rushing through the body, if there is fight-flight effect where I just almost avoided a car accident or something.
It's an example I didn't. But the blood is off from all the inner organs to arms and legs so you can fight and flight. So even if the story is gone, recognized, there is nothing going on, there will be buzzing in the body still. But if you don't label that buzzing, it can be even quite pleasant. Just energy. Yes, just energy. Energy, yes, that's right. Correct. No, there is no one to do it. It's just a cognizing of that. What is it? Because it just came out in your statement. And often we are not even aware of it. We don't even look. So what is it that would actually be attaching or not attaching?
Totally fine, because we need to explore that. But I just wanted to point that out because it came out in you. In your own. Who is attaching or not attaching? The fact of attaching. Who is attaching or not attaching? What? There is an assumption that there is one here. And we always operate from that assumption. That there is one here. Attaching or not attaching. Seeing or not seeing. Becoming aware of. Now I know it's just an energy. And there is kind of a vibration happening. And if I now just see it as that. And not attach. I, me, will be okay. Or I, me, will feel different.
Or see differently. Just watching out for traps. Yes, that's all I am doing now. Just to see. Because there is always an assumption. Always. That there is one here. And there is one there. There is an assumption. Always. That there is one here. And there is either seeing or not seeing. Or choosing or not choosing. Just relating to a static point. Just relating to a static point somewhere. Relating it to me. What are you relating to? Me. I mean, you know, I think you've actually really used the language well. To say if there is attachment. Or if there is investment. Does, you know, even if there is no concept of me in it.
It's fair to say that yes, if the story is fed with attention, then the story will perpetuate. And if the story is not fed with attention, it's like no fuel on the fire, then it won't perpetuate. And now who is giving the attention? Nobody. Because there is nobody. So attention, because of the habit, attention goes into the story. So let's say if I have some, you know, I have the car accident or something. Habit will come to perpetuate the story. And the recognition will come to drop this, or to recognize, or to wake up from the story. But neither I do the storying nor I do the recognizing.
Because I doesn't do anything. So it really is just to, it is just noticing what's happening. Okay, there is a story. There is investment in the story. Habitual investment of attention in the story. Because that's how we were conditioned. Especially if it is linked to the survival. Especially if I feel, oh yeah, these people, they are against me, they are going to report me or do something. So I have to protect myself because that's a survival. The whole reasoning capacity is linked with the survival. Just like the cat will hiss at another cat. Human will go and start building the army and defend itself. But this one is not done by the person.
It is done by the habit. And the recognition that this story is going on and waking up from that story is also not done by the person. Because there is no person. It is done by consciousness. So I think you worded it very well. If there is an investment, there is a perpetuation. Or if there is attachment, yes, there is a perpetuation. But if there is just spontaneous recognition, the attachment is not there. And unfortunately we can't choose because the person can't choose. And the consciousness is spontaneous. It doesn't choose. It is. And I think that we the nature of the mind is finite. And what we are trying to describe is infinite.
So what happens is the mind plays these little tricks describing things in a different way. But what it is is the mind is still trying to figure it out. So I think how I see what Terry was saying and what Kat is saying and what Bob is saying is there is only oneness. And the mind will always try and trap you into maybe describing things in a different way. And is that it? But what needs to be seen is the mind that is a clunky instrument that appears upon the presence of the mind. And it is still trying to figure it out. You know? Yeah, because there is a lot of language that is understanding but it is limited by language.
So using so what you are saying I am sort of understanding the non static point the cloud and then there is the who is very new to me today and we are talking about this Yes. I am trying to find a little like Yeah, that is Yeah. Are you doing very well? Very well. You use really precise language because you write exactly the language that confuses everything and it is only the language that we can use to actually present those pointers. So it is almost an impossible task. So we can always kind of whatever Bob says or I or Terry or Jane or anyone can cut it in pieces and rubbish it because it will be using words words are objects, they are dualistic so they are all rubbish.
But you are doing pretty well. I would say you do better than most of us with actually wording things without you know, just describing habit. Tony has that capacity also to just describe what is going on in absolutely impersonal way which is absolutely brilliant. I mean it is hard to avoid relating while you while you are speaking from the singular perspective because the sense of perspective or location that one will never go away. There will always be a perspective and there will always be kind of a veil of personality. Like the fact that I will like this type of music I will find this thing beautiful and not the other.
That will still affect the way I am using language, I am using pointers I am understanding pointers. That is unavoidable. Yeah, I am pretty impressed the way you did it because Yeah, it is consciousness. That is a response to a me. Yeah, that is It doesn't feel like it is a me sometimes. It is no me. The reality is it never is. We just think it is. We believe it is. But in actual fact it never is. Everything that has been coming out of your mouth every single word that you have been saying has zero to do with a me. It can't speak. It can't think.
It is actually not there. Everything that is coming out of me everything that comes out of all of us we attribute it to me and there isn't one. And the whole idea of this is to investigate that and discover that and that is it. That is all we are doing. Really. We can get But part of that is kind of is to get to the point where we are using the intellect to some degree to try and piece it all together and try and understand it but eventually eventually you exhaust it. Eventually you come to a point where you absolutely it dawns on you and it does.
It just dawns on you Oh my God I am never going to find the answer there. Ever. But when you come to that you kind of got to go through it. And then it just kind of dawns on you then that drops. Then what are you left with? Say no more. Say it. Just say it. It all stops. The personalising I am talking about stops. Yeah the stopping. There still be thoughts that pop through but 99% of that is creative. It is such a wonderful thing to be able to the sixth sense is just wonderful. It really is. I was going to use the word contaminated.
But it kind of gets contaminated by this idea that there is a personal me here. That is not true. It does. I am struggling with words there but it is a wonderful instrument. And it has been running the show the whole fucking time. And then there is this imagined me there that believes it is running the show and it is doing everything and when stuff does not go the way it wants it to go it gets the shits. It just does. That is where the idea of non-acceptance comes from. And what do we do to counter that? Try and accept everything. Yeah. Everything is just as it is anyway completely always spontaneous it just everything happens spontaneously everything including the idea of a me.
That also just pops in. You are not doing it. You are not responsible for any of the thoughts that go on in your head any of it. I don't care what it is. It just happens. Because if you could stop it you would stop it. We can't. It just happens. Do you choose to think a thought or does a thought appear upon you? Yeah. That's a good one. There is no chooser. It just happens. And it is just really it is the recognition of that. It just means watching, seeing really seeing what is really actually going on. And the only way you can do that is to turn in on yourself and look really just observe what is going on.
Can I stop thoughts? Where is me in these thoughts? Where do I exist in relation to all the stuff that I am aware of that floats around in my head throughout the course of the day? Where am I in relation to that? Where do I exist? Where do I sit? Where is the so called static point? Where is that still point where me is that thoughts and the world is happening to? We need to look there and actually see if there is one. And what we are being told in this room is there isn't one. We imagine there is one. Just like we imagine everything else.
The mind just imagines. That's what Bob means when he says, you know, when we walk into this room everyone is going to have a different concept about us. About say me. Everyone in this room will have a different concept in their head about me. Everybody will. Which means everybody is imagining something different about me. Their perception or belief or understanding or how they see me will be the way they imagine it. It's not even a person there to imagine it. But, yeah. And then Bob says, which one is real? None of them. So imagine. Including the self. Especially the self. Like that's where you need to I shouldn't say especially the self.
It's all the same. But that's where we need to look. See if what is being said here is actually true. And if it's not, go and do yoga. You know what I mean? Like, really. You really have to look for yourself. And see it. Really see it for yourself. And you already are. You just said before, I'm getting little glimpses. That's it. That's great. Just little glimpses. I think you know more than you actually realize you do. Because I can sense it energetically. It's just one more thing that I wanted to request. Jamie. He's got wonderful clarity. Just say something. Nothing. It's funny because I imagine things to say and they just come out of your mouth.
So I just sit here and hear you speaking. I'm speaking through your mouth. I love to listen to you and everybody else I bet will too. You've said everything beautifully. Come on. You give us something, Jamie. You give us something, Jamie. Something we can take home. We want a takeaway. We want a takeaway. You are that. You are that. You are that. Hear up. That's pretty simple. That's all you're getting. It's as simple as that. Everybody's aware. And I think you said before it's a different awareness. You think you're thinking of a different awareness but there's not two awarenesses. There's only one awareness. Whether it's ordinary or non-dual magnificence or heavenly.
It's the same dog shit awareness. Awareness is just a name for it. Yeah. There is only ordinary. Ordinary. That's ordinary. That's as simple as that. And that's really important the word ordinary. It's because there's so much of the mythology around the eternal bliss and ecstasy and enlightenment being a state beyond needing a chocolate or sex. No. It's ordinary awareness. But yeah. The cats and dogs and trees and the sky. Yeah. That's right. When it's not contaminated by the drama about what the world owes me or how it should be different than it is. The selfing takes up so much energy. You know. It's exhausting. And when you actually see other people in that selfing you think oh my god.
You know. You're dissipating all your energy on a phantom. It's just. Yeah. So the joy of being and just being ordinary is I understand what people used to say years ago. Some of the sages and seers they all say take joy in the ordinary. The ordinariness of life. I really get that. I get that. And don't take the commentary too seriously. Yeah. In the absence of the personalised self everything is absolutely magnificent. Including dog shit. Seriously. It's beyond words. There's no way I can describe it. I can't. But it's in the pure absence of the me in. And that's what's referred to as ordinary awareness.
But it is. It's totally seeing, hearing, tasting. It's totally ordinary awareness. But it's magnificent in the absence of me. The idea of me. Or that dreaming state that we constantly walk around in. Imagined. Imagined. It's all conceptual images made up in the mind. Like reflections in the water or images in the mirror or mental images. Nothing either good or bad but thinking. Nothing can trouble you except your own imagination. What you are imaging in. Okay, thank you. Thank you. Thank you everyone.