This transcript was made by speech-recognition software, so names and some words may be misheard. The recording is the original: watch on YouTube.
There never were, except for that. You know, I find the whole thing fascinating, but I... Pardon? You know, I find the whole thing fascinating, but I have to hear it. The monologue. Sorry? Sorry, his monologue was fascinating. Yeah. But, you know, it's... A question that always arises is that... Well, to me, is that... You know, we try to pick ourselves up by our bootlaces, but we try to intellectualise our way through the mind, to go beyond the mind, and... You know, sometimes you do sit and stop and become very aware of awareness. And it's just, well... It's a bit like that song, you know, that's how hell there is to a fire.
It just feels, well, that's what it is, and you can't intellectualise it, and you can't mash your way through it. It seems a great letdown. Actually, that's just another concept I've covered. Yeah. But then how... Intellectualising gets me through, because you really... You know, it's wonderful. I mean, I'm just so excited to be here and with you. Is this the first time you've been here? Yeah. And... Yeah. What did you just say? You say, you see, there's... You can... You can pause a thought, can't you? Pause a thought. In that moment, thinking has stopped. So you are prior to the mind in that moment. Now, what's there?
It seems very boring, very mundane. Now, you've been... In the search, you've had some... Maybe some wonderful experiences, some great sensations, this, that, and the other. Now, this, it seems very boring, very ordinary, very mundane. That's constantly never been with you. These sensations and things that have come up, they've stayed around for a while, and then they've disappeared. And then you've looked for bigger and better ones. And that's gone. And that's gone. But this prior to the mind has been constantly everywhere. Now, if you've got one of these sensations that have stuck around forever, after a month or two, would it become very mundane and ordinary?
And you have nothing to evaluate against it? I suppose I've had those peak experiences. A lot of other aspects of my life have become very easy. And, I mean, I can remember one particularly that... You know, when I was younger, I had quite a bad speech impediment. And I had one of those. I had one of those peak experiences, and it was like a veil had been lifted, and the whole world changed. Not in a sense that I forced it, or not in... It was like you open your eyes and the world's a different world. And then... But being in Presence hasn't... It doesn't change my life.
How long have you stayed in Presence? I mean, staying in Presence, you find... It's what I call effortless living. It's not a peak experience, just a seeming ordinary, everyday commonplace. Things unfold from that quiet effortless thing quite naturally. But you see, you have these so-called peak experiences, and they come and they go. They do not fit the definition of reality, which is that which never changes. Now, it's that ordinary no-thingness that has never changed. That emptiness, the cognitive emptiness, is what you are. It's not that you are cognitive, or that you are cognising anything. It is the emptiness itself, that's what I call the cognitive...
It's the emptiness itself that's cognised, and expressing through that that. And letting it know it's this, that, and the other, till it comes up and translates as thought, feelings or emotions, or whatever. It's all happening in that. It seems so mundane. Yeah. It seems so... What about the greater writings of the Masters, when they talk about their... I mean, one of the wonderful insights in the cities and... It's all charred. It's what Thomas Aquinas said after all his philosophy, he said it's all charred, when he had that experience. So I guess Shakespeare is just shit. It's all charred. And there's not much you can do either.
I mean, what can you do? You can't intellectualise and fight your way through it. That's what I'm saying. You know, you've been searching for years, and you've never found the answer of the mind. Mind's doing on you, you're looking in the wrong direction. And when that doing's on you, you're looking at what way you've got to look. Because you look, and you see that every direction you're looking is in the mind. The only way out of the mind is false thought. False thought, you pour it up towards, and there is a naked awareness in there. Stay with that a little while, you'll see there's a subtle, up-and-a-liding sense of well-being in that.
A sense of joy, which is not the opposite of sadness or happiness. A love, if you like. There's not the love-hate relationship. It's not a conceptual image. Sensation. It is a natural function. I suppose, I mean, you know, I've been meditating for years and years, and I love meditation. But that's the only time I get close to that. But I always think, well, gee, if I could just be there all the time, if I could just stay there, then... As soon as you get up from meditation, it's gone. Well, then look, who is the meditator? Yeah, good question. Who is the meditator? Well, it's not gone, but it's...
The world takes over. Yes, you say that. But who is the meditator? In other words, the thing that sits down and closes its eyes. No, what Bob's saying is the goal of meditation is to get rid of the meditator. Yeah, I believe that happens in meditation. That's what Bob's talking about. He's talking about when the meditator's gone, there's no meditative meditation. It's just... I think what gets me excited is that meditation is always, well, you're going to get enlightened.