This transcript was made by speech-recognition software, so names and some words may be misheard. The recording is the original: watch on YouTube.
We talk about what they call Hinduism as Veda, non-duality, and they try and explain that by saying it's one without a second. And they put one without a second on it because even the idea of one implies there could be other than one. Getting back to the basic fact that there is only that. And that is the Mahabhagya, the great word, the great mantra. I am that, this is that, thou art that, whatever, that's that. That which is ineffable, indescribable, what they're pointing to. In Dog Chin, the ultimate scriptures of Buddhism, they say it's non-conceptual, self-shining, ever-fresh, presence awareness. Just this, nothing else. Isn't that describing you right now, if you're not involved in any conceptualising?
Can you negate the beingness? Can you negate that presence awareness? Is there anyone who is not aware of being present? Well, that presence of awareness is not with you right now. That's why we say here, start from the fact that you are already that. And we'll see from that point if you are already that. Any search, or trying to get something, any search, implies that there is something you are, that you believe you are not. That's something you are trying to get. Now, another way they put it in the ancient traditions is omnipresence, omnipotence, omniscience. Total presence, total power, total intelligence. Not three things, but three aspects of the one thing.
And if what they're saying is true, it's total presence, total power, total intelligence, does that leave room for a you, or a me, or anything at all to be outside of that? It's a form of immortality. So there again you see why we're saying that what you are seeking, you already are. Coming down from ancient times where communication wasn't as easy as it is now, somebody in some little village, remote village somewhere, might have come upon this understanding and passed it on to a few, and not everybody could grasp it, we get this idea that it's only available for the few. And that's the trap we put ourselves under.
And that's the trap we put ourselves under. And that's the trap we put ourselves under. And that's the trap we put ourselves under. And that's the trap we put ourselves under. And that's the trap we put ourselves under. And we wonder again, oh, I could possibly never be like that. But today with some of the ancient text being translated properly by people who have understood the language and given proper translations, communication by computer and all the rest of it, it is available to everybody. And everybody has that chance of investigating and looking for it. And it's not hard to see. It's not any long journey.
It's not, oh, it's a long journey. It's not just that, or the other, we put on it. It is immediate. Isn't there that immediate knowing that you are? Can anyone say I am not? Each one of us knows I am. That thought I am is not it. That's how it translates through the mind as a thought. That sense of presence, the knowing that you are translates as the thought I am. And we have come to believe that this thought, our awareness of it, that it is present in us, that it does exist, that it has a purpose, it is present in us, that it's received us and yet it has gone away.
And we have come to believe that it is present in us. It is present in us, so everything we do, we have to remember, and remember when we are that thought, I am which we are, and events, experiences, conditioning form a mental picture of conceptual image is really what we are. That's why they call it, in all traditions, it's ignorance. And they're not talking about we're dummies or anything like that. We are ignoring our true nature, ignoring our natural state, and going into the conceptualised mental images we have about ourselves and believing in that. That's all we do here, is point you towards, to have a look, where you may not have looked at before.
And if you have looked at it, and everyone's had a taste of it or a glimpse of it, and then gone back and said, I had it, or lost it, don't you see, if you are that, it's impossible to lose. And that's, again, what we point to. We can't teach you anything, and we can't tell you anything, because we can only point. Nobody's ever going to do it for you. No guru, no saint, no sage, or anybody else. No matter how hard, or how deeply, or how seriously, you seemingly follow them, or believe in them. They can't give it to you. They only point you towards it, and they'll be joking up and say, it's quite a bit.
It's quite easy to see. The investigation, we talk about investigation today, we find that when you do investigate, you'll find that the false cannot stand up to that investigation. So a lot of these erroneous beliefs we've carried around fall away in investigation, because you see the false and you can no longer believe in them. If you no longer believe in them, then you're free of these. And what are you left with then? You're left with the natural state. And this is what this is all about, the natural state. And what is the natural state? Well, just have a look out in nature, and you'll see the natural state.
The earth going around the sun, the planets revolving around each other, or whatever they're doing out there. The seasons coming and going, the tides coming in and out. All that implies that there is a natural intelligence suffusing everything to enable that to happen. That's why I call it intelligence energy, rather than using the term God. We use that term God or spirit. We've got our concepts about this, and we all come from different backgrounds. Some of us may be Christians, some Buddhists, some Hindus, some Muslims, some atheists, some agnostics, or whatever. And if we start talking about God, it'll be referred to that concept you have about God.
I use the concept, and this is a concept also, and some people can get confused with this, intelligence energy. And looking at intelligence energy, I'm not talking about your intellects, but I'm talking about intelligence. I'm talking about that same intelligence that's functioning in this universe. You see the way it's functioning? It implies that it's suffused with an innate intelligence. A tree, a pattern, shape and form, the way it is. A butterfly, an insect, a bird. This human pattern implies that it is suffused with innate intelligence. And it's that same intelligence that's breathing you right now. It's beating your heart, growing your hair and your fingernails, digesting your food, replacing cells in your body.
Have a look at that function that's going on right where you are right now. Is there any entity there saying, I've got to take my next breath? I've got to make sure my heart beats? I've got to make sure there's a few cells replaced in the liver or somewhere else in the body? I'll digest my food? We don't have to think about those things at all. They're happening naturally. And what is this entity that I believe myself to be, which is the cause of all my problems? It's that idea of a separate entity. But if there's that idea or concept and belief in a separate entity, we're immediately in dualism.
And what the ancients tell us, in all the traditions you'll find it if you look close enough, that it's non-dual. It's one without a second. So if we're in dualism, how can duality ever understand or grasp non-duality? Don't you see it's impossible? So that's another thing we say, you'll never find the answer in the mind. Ever. Because if you look at your mind, you'll see that the mind is dualism. This thing we call mind, if you can show me such a thing as mind, there is no such thing as mind really, apart from thinking. If thinking is mind, which particular thought am I? Am I this I am thought, which I believe myself to be?
But you know you don't have to go around all day saying, I am, I am, I am, to confirm your being. You mightn't even think of it. That knowing that you are is there, before it's translated into the thought I am. And that thought I am is not there when you're in deep sleep, or under an anesthetic, and you don't fall apart. You don't disappear without constantly reminding yourself. You don't have to constantly remind yourself, don't fall apart, don't disappear. The seeing, the hearing, the functioning, is still happening, the body digesting is still happening, without that thought. So you see, I can't really be that thought.
And if you look at it, as I say, look at your mind, and see how it's functioning, you'll see, at the very, very subtle level of thinking, it's a very, very subtle vibration. When it comes out as word, which is sound, this is one of these words coming out now, just sound. Sound is a vibration. And what is a vibration? A vibration is a movement of energy. So it's that same intelligence and patterning as thoughts, or words. And there's no one speaking here, from that point of view. Just these words, sounds coming out, which are translated, or interpreted as words. And the word is never the thing.
That's another thing you ought to understand. That the word can never be the thing. You say, water, water, fill water for the rest of your life. And the word will never quench your thirst. And say, fire, fire, fire, fire. But does the word burn your mouth when it's coming out? So you see, the thing, the word is not the thing. And all these words and labels we've got, about ourselves and everything else, are not the actuality. They're just translations, mental translations, descriptions. The description can never be as described. And what we're trying to describe right now, is not the thing. You get the taste of it.
Get the taste of it, and realise that you are that. So the way this is investigated is, look, they say, ask the question, who am I? But if you ask that question, who am I? Then turn around and ask, well, who's asking that question? If the answer comes up, well, I am. Well, what's this I am? I am as I thought. I can afford to ask a question. So you see that the questioner is the question. Both thought. And seeing that they both cancel each other out, then where does that lead? If you've done that and had a look, has anyone stopped being aware? Has anyone stopped being present, without the concept?
And that's another thing that, in the Dog Chen teachings, they call it, Dog Chen translated, means the great perfection. And they give it in one sentence. The great perfection is non-conceptual awareness. So it's the conception, conceptualising, that is the cause of all our problems. If I ask, am I this body? I believe myself to be this separate entity. And have a look and see what this body is made up of. Can I find a centre or a point in this body anywhere that I can say this is what I am? Am I the heart? Am I the lungs? Am I something else or something else or whatever?
I can't find a point anywhere that I can say this is what I am. And going back and tracing it, and seeing, where did this body begin? Did it have any beginning around it? And I can trace back and have a look and see, or realise or work out a reason, what science and everything else tells me, that this body is nothing but a pattern of energy, the same intelligence energy as a tree or everything else is, there's patterning, shaping and forming, it's that one essence. Where did it begin? It didn't even begin there, with the essence of the food eaten by my father. The chi, the prana, the energy and intelligence within that food formed the sperm within that body of the father.
And the essence of the food eaten by my mother, the chi, the prana, the energy in the food, the essence in the breath, formed the ovum. And you can see there was intelligence in the ovum, which attached itself to the wall of the uterus. It didn't get there by haphazardly or accident. There was intelligence in it in the sperm. It didn't find its way up to the ovum. It swam there, implying that it was suffused with that innate intelligence also. And when those two came together, that innate intelligence doubled the cell and redoubled it. There wasn't an entity there saying, well I've got to double this cell now, and start growing a little fetus, a little embryo.
It grew by itself. And even while the body was forming, there was never any entity there at any time, saying, well I've got to grow a couple of fingers today, or maybe a liver or a heart. And even when it was born, you see, and the cord was cut, what did it do then? Did it say, well now I've got to take my first breath, or did that innate intelligence functioning in the bat then enable it to take that first breath, and enable it to fasten the suckle on the nipple? It wasn't telling it to do that, or it wasn't telling it to do that, or it wasn't doing it by the mind.
So you see, how can I stay on this body when that original cell is long since gone? If that was what it was, this body, this would be the part, that would be where it started from. That's long since gone, and there are a million cells dying in this body right now. I haven't got the same body that started up there. It's constantly changing. So how can I stay on this body? Am I this mind? And we see that mind is nothing but thought. And which particular thought am I? Am I this I am thought? We don't have to go around, as I say all day, saying I am.
If I was that I am thought, that's what I'd be making sure I'd be doing. That I am thought is often not there. So I can't be that thought, or any other thought. So I'm not this body, nor am I this mind. This is how it's appearing. It's that same intelligence energy that's patterning the tree, that's patterning the insect, patterning the bird, that's patterning, shaping and forming this body. It doesn't have any beginning, doesn't have any ending, is never separated or apart from anything at all. And that is what you are. And that's all that needs to be seen and known, and grasped and understood.
That I am that essence. What has happened when the little dog reaches about two, two and a half, the reasoning starts. And there's nothing wrong with that reasoning. It's just this human form suffused with this intelligence energy, like the dog and the bird, or whatever other manifestation is suffused with it. This human form has the capacity of reasoning, which other patterns might not have to an extent. And that's a very useful capacity in this space. So the little child, when he doesn't start this reasoning, until he's about two, two and a half, develops in it, you know. And he starts to learn words from his parents.
He's got no words or labels prior to that. And they tell him, you little Johnny, you're a good little boy, you're a nice little boy, that's bad, don't do this or don't do that. All sorts of things he's told, and he learns these words and labels from them. And he learns words like I or me. And he starts to reason, where before he's not seeing anything as separate up to that point. He's seeing things, certainly. And he's discriminating, and he knows that that's not one of my genders' blob out there. But he's got no labels, no words, and he's got no labels and words about himself, where he can discriminate and divide them.
He's just seeing everything as it is. And that's another thing you'll see often in the scriptural text. Everything as it seems, everything as it is. As it is means unaltered, unmodified, uncorrected. Just as it is in the immediate, the earnest manner. So when the little child starts to learn words from his parents, he learns the words I or me. And he starts to reason, this little Johnny they're talking about, this is me. Or this is I. And if you have a look at that, what is the opposite of me, and what is the opposite of I, as I say. Looking at your mind, you'll see it constantly vibrating.
Interrelated opposites. If it's not past, which is memory. If it's future, which is anticipation and imagination. And within that range, it's constantly dividing into pairs of opposites. It's either good, bad, pleasant, painful. Happy, sad, loving, negative. Loving, hating, positive, negative. What's your mind? And see if it actually functions any other way. And somewhere within that, interrelated pairs of opposites, always. So when the little child starts to learn words like I or me, and believes then, that this is what little Johnny they're talking about, this is me, this is I. What is the opposite of me or I? Isn't it not me? Or not I? Now for the first time when he looks out there and he's seeing these things, he's reasoning that's not me, that's not I.
And that's when the sense of separation first comes upon us. The belief that we're separate entities starts from then. And the idea that this is not me or not I. And with that sense of separation comes insecurity and vulnerability. And that's when our search actually starts. From that time on, we're looking for security. Looking to become less vulnerable. Looking to become whole. Total or complete. Because we have taken on that erroneous belief that we are separate. We have taken on without question. And the fact that the whole of nature, society, our schools and everything like that, we're geared to believe in that. We learn it from our parents, we learn it from our schools, our society.
And the whole of life then goes about trying to make that believed in separate entity complete or whole. And we're geared to look out there. To gather, accumulate, amass. Add to, acquire. Anything that we can consume will make us whole. I've had a job, good income, good relationship, whatever. And all these things, the more we can add, accumulate, amass, will make us whole and complete. But you've never seen the millionaire yet that's satisfied with what they've got. It's not out there. We can add and accumulate whatever we like, but it's not out there. And the reason for that is quite simple. Simple is because we were never separate in the first place.
So whatever we're seeking, we're in the trap. That's why we say here right from the start, what you're seeking you already are. And you see from that that is the search, it becomes the problem. Because why have you got that search on? Two things, a couple of things happen. You believe that in future time you'll get something. And if you believe that some future time you'll get something, you've moved away from what the ancients have told us, that it's omnipresent. There is no future time. And the other thing, what was it? No future time. There's no future to know. And the other thing, you've got that belief that you're separate.
There's no future time. So you've moved away from omnipresence. So anything, whatever the search is on, you're in the trap. And you see that time is a mental concept. You don't have to be a Rhodes Scholar to work that one out either. You ask yourself the simple question, is there a past if I don't think about it? Now to do that, you've got to pause thought for a moment. It's easy enough to pause that thought. And when that thought is paused, just realise what is happening. Can you say there's a past or a future or anything else at all without a thought? Because all that's happening, all that's conceptualising has stopped for a moment.
But you haven't fallen apart. You haven't disappeared. The seeing is still happening. The hearing is still happening. Awareness is still there. The only thing is conceptualising has stopped. So you can't say there's a past or a future without a thought. The same with the future. Can you say there's a future without a thought? Do the same thing and you realise that you can't, without a thought, you can't say there's a past or a future. You haven't got anything. Neither of those concepts here matter. And say, yeah, but I was in the past. People say I was living in the past. I was living in the future.
Yeah, can you actually live in the past? Have a look and see. Can you live a moment ago? Can you live an hour ago or a week ago or a year ago? You can't. You can recall the past. And in recalling it, the only actuality it's got is what you're giving it in this moment of recollection. If you're not recalling it, not thinking about where is it? I asked you what happened yesterday, what have you got to do? You've got to go back and try and recall it. It's not with you right now until you do that. The same with the future. Can you live in the future?
You can imagine and anticipate the future, but when you're actually anticipating and imagining it, it's right now in this moment. People tell me I was away from the now. How the hell can you ever be away from now? Now is the actuality. Time. Past, time and future are conceptual. They're not the actuality. So it's just not noticed. It's there, but it's just not noticed because of our habitual habit patterns. We believe we're this entity from the time we first started to reason. And it's habitually gone on day after day, day after day without questioning it. It's become the habit. We understand that habits can be broken.
Don't go along with it. Recognizing what it is is a habit. And don't bother to go there into it anymore. It's all a way of its own. There's nothing you can do about it. There's no entity that can do anything about it. And you see that, what happens there. See this entity, this reference point. We enter this I thought. The I thought you can't do much with it. Little jolly learns I hate it. I can't do much with that at all. So what happens there? We enter that I thought, all the events, experiences, conditionings, things that have happened to us, we've added onto that I thought.
I'm a good fellow or I'm a bad fellow. I did this. I shouldn't have done that. I'm fearful. I'm resentful of it. Low self-esteem. All these concepts are added onto this I thought. And we form this mental picture, this mental image of what we believe ourselves to be. And this mental image of what we believe ourselves to be becomes the self-centered or reference point or what they call the ego. But you see it's only a made up reference point. A reference point of image. Mental image. Things that have seemingly happened to us. Because a card graphed that I thought, we've got to give something that's seemingly solid that's not that time term.
So we build this mental picture of what we want to see. But have a look at it and see, but is there anything there in that? And everybody is seeing right now. Have a look at this. And you're all seeing right now. It's not a trick question, which people often think it is. Just a word of it and you're seeing. That's it. And you're hearing right now. But ask yourself, does my eye tell me I see? Well my eye is not saying look over here or look there. The seeing is just happening. But it's translated into the thought, I see. I see this or I see that.
The same with the hearing. My ear is not saying listen to this. The hearing is happening and that's me. The thought comes up again and translates into I hear. But don't realize that the seeing and the hearing were going on before that translation came to this. That's how the translation came about. Then ask yourself this. Does the thought, I see, that's translated into the thought, I see, does the thought, I see, actually see? The thought, hear, I see, can't see at all. It's just translated. The thought, I hear, doesn't actually hear. The same with the thought, I hear, that can't hear. It's just translated. Couldn't translate without that life essence behind it, that intelligence in it.
So is the thought, I am aware, is that your awareness? Is the thought, I choose, is that the choice maker? The thought, I have self-will, is that the self-will? Is that the will? So you see, the thought has no power to do any of these things. So this fictitional entity we're constantly referring to, everything is relative to that reference point. It's judged from there. We refer to that reference point of past memory, which is a dead reference point, because it's based on past. It's based on past. And everything is relative to that reference point. Judged from there is good, bad, doesn't, painful, happy, sad, loving, hating, whatever.
So what if I see that this reference point is a fiction? It has no power. It has no independent nature. What happens then? What am I going to evaluate as I judge it? Somebody calls me a nasty name and it doesn't fit the reference point, the image I've got about myself. Then I'll be angry or resentful or fearful or whatever. Whatever people, I think the image people have got about me, and I've got this image about myself, don't you see what happens then? It's all evaluated from there and judged as good or bad, pleasant or painful. If there's no image there, if there's nowhere for it to latch onto, what happens?
It just goes through to the keeper. Nowhere for it to lodge. It hasn't done any damage. And the thoughts will freely flow on and life will go on living without all this psychological suffering that we create for ourselves by that erroneous thought. By that erroneous belief that we're separate entities. So these things need to be looked at and questioned. And I think I've rambled on long enough. So, got any questions, arguments or whatever? Tell me your version. So everybody knows it. So each one has got as much right to participate as anyone else and talk, as much as you understand. And if you don't understand or have doubts, ring them out and we'll see if we can point them out.
So, away you go. What time have you got to leave? Around about ten. Look at the clock behind you. Surrounded by time. I have a question. You're speeding up because I'm on doping. Okay. So, I understand this sense of presence in that I find myself here right now. And the question that comes right now is that is knowledge that I've accumulated through second hand experience or teaching or whatever, does that totally have no value? It can be useful in everyday affairs and things like that. But it's not the knowledge. It is the knowing. Knowing can apply knowledge. Well, knowing, come up on it you see.
The knowing is what is actually happening with you. You can't negate that knowing. The ing on the end of it gives it the life, the livingness of the moment. But if it's I know, you become the knower, or the known, you're divided into subject, pseudo subject and object. It's actual knowing, it's actual seeing. The seeing, before you divide it into I see, and I see this, and the seer and seeing. The seer and the seeing are conceptual. The knower and the known are conceptual. But the knowing is the actuality. Any knowledge of something that's been learned or acquired, in all our words, all our labels have been acquired stuff.
It's not the natural function. They're all learned stuff. You've learned every word you've ever spoken. You've learned something, acquired. It wasn't with your mate that you were in the little child. So that's what we call acquired mind, if you like. And it's very useful in the functioning of this livingness, but not for any entity. There never was an entity that needs to be used. Well, they call it cognizing emptiness in Buddhism. Emptiness, and when people think you've got to cognize or see the emptiness, but it's emptiness with the capacity of cognizing or knowing. You see, when I look in this body, I can't find a center in the body, nor can I find a center in the mind anywhere.
But yet, the speaking's still happening, the seeing's still happening, the functioning's still going. What's doing it if there's no center, no reference point? It must be that emptiness itself that's expressing or patterning through this particular pattern, in words, thoughts, ideas. And that emptiness is not confined to this pattern. This pattern appears in that emptiness. The same as every other pattern in this room, or in the universe, appears in that emptiness. So it's that, that's just, that's the fusing, intelligence is the fusing and patterning through everything. And you are that. I'd like to say then, Bob, every thought is in the emptiness too. Yes. And suddenly when we claim the thought, after we've had the thought, claim it as being mind, the personality wants to say this is me.
Of course, and have a look at that too, you know. Just take that life essence, or power, or whatever you like to call it, the intelligence away from that body, that's the cause. How many thoughts can you have without it? How many feelings can you have? You've got a brain that's not functioning, you've got eyes that can't see. So it is that essence itself that's forming, shaping, and patterning the thoughts, just the same as it's forming and shaping, patterning the body through which the thoughts are expressing. Everything is that, but not how it appears. Our problem, we take the appearance, the shape and form, to be the real, rather than seeing in essence everything as that.
It doesn't stop the patterns from appearing. They'll still appear, but you know the difference is we know the truth about them. The old scriptural saying is know the truth and the truth will set you free. And there's many metaphors I've used to point that out. I like the one about the blue sea, you know. You go down to the ocean and say, get me a bucket of blue water out of the ocean. They say, don't be bloody ridiculous. Why? Because you've seen through it, you know the truth about it. You'll always get clear water out of the ocean. It's not coloured blue. But it doesn't stop the sea from appearing blue every time you go down there.
You'll see it as blue. And you'll admire the blueness of it. That's good. But you're not taken in by it. Another one they used was where the sea and the sky met years ago. People would look out on the horizon there and they'd say, don't go out there. You'll fall off the edge of the earth. People really believed that. Because they didn't know the truth about it. They believed it. They were fearful of going out there. But nobody would be taken in by that today. We know the truth about it. And we're free of that erroneous belief. The water in the mirage, the rainbow, all these different metaphors I've used to point it out.
And the same here. Then we know that this entity we believe in ourselves to be is a fiction. It doesn't stop it from appearing to be there. The same extra package can bring it to be there. But you know the truth about it all. Everything is there. Bob, I want to go back to that knowing thing that you mentioned. Because, well I too, you have a lot of stuff you've learned, stuff you've studied, stuff you've experienced. And I find that if it's in the now, if I'm re-experiencing it in the now, as in knowing it, then it's relevant and real. Exactly. It is the knowing now.
Yeah. And if I'm creating it like a belief, as in I learned this from so and so, you know, in 1983, then it has a much more complex, not as interesting effect. Or it isn't accessible actually. Because it doesn't exist. But suddenly something in the present, it'll come up. But then it's actually mine. Well, seemingly mine. Because it's in the now. Yeah. And that's what I find with learned material or experiences in this area. Next question. If it is all arising in the intelligence, what place confusion and illusion has in that way? Well, you've got to look at who does the confusion and illusion happen to?
Doesn't it happen to the belief in an entity that's taken delivery of it? If there's no entity, what can be confused? It's just what is. It just arises. Just what is, is unaltered, unmodified, uncorrected. And the only way it can be altered, modified or corrected is getting a concept or a thought about it. As soon as we start getting into thoughts about it, we're trying to alter, modify or correct what is unnecessary to go with modify or correct, because it will do so on its own. There's no resistance to it. It moves on. And this is our problem. We refer to the me of memory.
And if it's something we like, and it's not, then we're going to do it. And if it's something we don't like, then we're going to do it. And if it's something we don't like, then we're going to do it. And if it's something we like, and it starts to go away, we resist to go. And we want to keep it there and continue it. And if it's something we don't like and we want to get rid of it, we resist it from going. There's constant resistance with us based on this false entity. And resistance is conflict, and conflict is disease. Now, in nature, the natural state, the pairs of options are constantly functioning, but they're not in resistance.
the storm, it's take a turn, go about and move on. We're not putting that resistance up and you can't be non-resistant. By trying to be non-resistant you're giving that entity some more power. All that can happen is the recognition of resistance. And that recognition must be from the point of non-resistance. In that recognition, the moment was recognised in that non-resistance, in that amnesia. The next moment it can come up again as resistance. But recognising it and recognising it again and again, which will happen, because you've got to taste it. You're looking at something false now. Once you see something that's false you can never actually believe it again, even though the old habit will bring it up again.
That recognition will come up more and more. And the resistance falls away. So is it recognising just the ebb and flow of positive and negative on the concept of who we are? And just letting it wash away? Come and go and recognising that where we stand we see it as either positive or negative and just letting it... That's what we're saying. That's the way to function. To recognise who's seeing it as positive or negative and not taking delivery of it as an entity. It's free to move on. That's another way of putting it. They say, be thought free. And people think, well I've got to free myself of all thoughts and try to push all thoughts out.
But me, I'm free. I'm free. I'm free. I'm free. I'm free. I'm free. I'm free. I'm free. I'm free. I'm free. I'm free. I've gotta let my thoughts free. Just let the thought be free. Where it's not resistant, not attached to. Where are yesterday's thoughts now? Where do they arise from? Out of that entry? Where do they disappear into? Out of that entry. Back into the entry. And that's another thing you look at, you see the thoughts don't last. They'll soon move on, move on sooner. Just the same as a cloud covers the sun. You know, you go outside and you say, oh cloudy, cloudy day today.
You know, you might say I can't see the sun can't see the Sun but nobody ever believes the Sun's left the sky and the cloud is not attached to the sky it's not tacked up there or stuck on the clear will move on and you ask yourself go look into that a bit deeper and see what forms the cloud and you see the Sun itself forms a cloud the Sun doesn't do anything but shine doesn't deliberately form a cloud but in that shining it heats the water up and evaporates water which will form a cloud and that might cause the wind to stir and blow the cloud away or bring it down away and all the Sun doesn't shine all this natural state that you are is just self-aware self-aware self-shining presence awareness it's constantly there and in that thoughts come up feelings come up activities occur everything occurs with that essence that you are has never changed it's like at night when you look at the sky it's actually still blue but it's just the Sun's gone but it's not actually blue is it no no it's like the moon's gone it's like the moon's gone it's like the moon's gone it's like the moon's gone yeah it appears to be no that's what I say but you still go out in the night but you know the truth about it you know it's space there's space in this room is the space blue you go up 30,000 feet in the plane not in the mile-high club or whatever it is look out the window different sort of blue look out the window and you see it's clear clarity blueness is always found around okay you're seeing the wholeness the totality you're seeing the wholeness the totality let's see myself slip at times but let's see myself slip at times but city go beyond when the science I just a lesion 俱k ...
chrisk ... her ... that... I feel though, when I sort of look out now, at times the world doesn't quite like to state I may be in, or I may miss things, what others think is important. You know, when I focus on something, when I'm not aware of it, when I'm in indes… I just am. I just… Things happen. Whereas instead of being everywhere and doing everything right and… That's what people usually do. Or did you see that? Did you see that while you were doing this? No, I didn't! Do you know what I mean? I feel that consciousness is the looking out. Who discovers it beautifully, it says a thousand can fall on your left side, ten thousand on your right, but it does not come nigh to a dwelling place.
You can walk through the world and see all the chaos going on. But here it is. It's beautiful. It just shows you how many banal and trivial things... Walk down the street or do whatever, you know, and see it, you know. Have a look at the people around you, see them. Each one's involved in their own little world. There's one bloke on the tram the other day kicking the door of the tram, you know. It's going on all around you still, walk down the street, you see. People arguing, people happy, people doing all sorts of things. It doesn't touch you. The little bit that comes in age can be handled quite easily.
They say every ism arises from the primary ism, dualism. There was Catholicism, Buddhism, Hinduism, Atheism, Communism, Capitalism. Every ism arises from that, me and the other. The actuality. It doesn't matter then whether it's valid or not, it doesn't matter. It's only none of the appearance. All the appearance is reality, but not as it appears. That's the point. It's only one thing. Right. Right. Not as it appears. Yeah. Like the wave and the ripple on the ocean, they're nothing but water. You can call them a wave, a ripple, a spray, or whatever, but it's still only water. You say the thought I see can't see, and the thought I hear can't hear.
So, the thought I can make a million dollars can't make your million dollars. So, a lot of people who perhaps would listen to you may well have invested a lot of time and effort, books, seminars, and videos into the concept that there is somebody there, through their own efforts, can get that million dollars. What would you say to those people? What is actually being said, but the thought I see can't hear, the thought I hear can't hear, the thought I'm aware is not the awareness, or the thought I will have a million dollars. There's no thinker there with any independent nature at all. You can think that.
And people who say that too, they'll immediately won't want to look at that, because of the belief that they'll get a million dollars. Just the same as people who come here. They've been on the track for 10, 20, or 30 years or more. You tell them this, and they've got such a vested interest in their meditation or practices, no, that's rubbish. That couldn't be that simple. It couldn't be that easy. And they carry on with what they're doing. And that's not their doing either. That's the way the function takes them. So, the fellow who thinks he's going to get a million dollars out of thinking that way, has a vested interest in that, and might carry on thinking that way, or try to positively think.
Until my mind is clear. If, or when, or maybe, or it may not even, the pain will come up and get too much, and we'll point him to look at this stuff again probably. Or something will turn him around. If it will, or if it won't. And it doesn't matter either way, whether it does or whether it doesn't. Whether they know it or not, everybody is that. Well, he may make millions of dollars. Yes. But it's kind of irrelevant. It might be the worst thing that ever happened to him. It could be, it is. It often is. Whatever it is. So, for the meditator, you would ask them to question who is actually doing the meditation?
Yes. Who was the meditator, and what are you meditating on? What's being meditated on? And that cancels each other out. There's no meditator, nothing to meditate on. And that leaves you right where you are, present and aware. With your eyes open. Yes. And that's where they use the term, in the Oliver teachings, dog change, for instance, I suppose. They say, undistracted non-meditation. Yes, and the five senses are wide open at that point. So it's undistracted non-meditation, the very idea of meditating, or trying to meditate, or to distract you from non-meditation... But no one to meditate, nothing to meditate on, you're constantly in meditation all the time.
But that's a very good point you make, though Bob, about. make though Bob about people who sell success or want to market success will often attract successful people or people who want to be successful and when we look around the room we see a handful of people here because you're selling no thing well you're not selling anything and of course to the mind it has very little attraction for most people they may want to share their insights yeah yeah that's that's a very good point as a billion dollar industry and people telling other people how to make a lot of money when they're making a lot of money but through telling other people how to make a lot of money there a lot of money comes through the actual telling of the people how to make a lot of money not through any other way it's called it's called selling blue sky selling water by the river....
the functioning goes on everywhere goes on in the medical profession goes on you know well it goes on in the spiritual profession in every profession it's the nature of the faith what's in it's...it's capitalism another ism everything is modeled on their parents that's one of the fastest ways to get rich medicine Bob could you speak a little bit about the silent mind about the silent mind about the silent mind about the silent mind about the silent mind and the thought full, as in thoughts going through them. And I'm asking that question because in spiritual literature it's often referred to the fact that a quiet mind, a still mind, is the key to just beingness.
Well, what is this mind that we've got, a still? It's not such a thing as mind apart from thought. No, the mind is conceptual, it's all concepts. It's easy enough to drop a concept, isn't it? Yeah. So the concept's dropped, what is it? It's then non-conceptual awareness. Well, that's it. So non-conceptual awareness is awareness with no concept, which would imply the mind being totally not there. Yeah, but then again, if you understand a concept, as a concept, just a mental construct, there is awareness then that's not bothered by the mental construct or anything else. You open your eyes and look at this room. What's it all appearing?
This awareness. Now, can you separate the appearance from the awareness? Not really, because we're doing... Can you separate the seeing from the sight that's in the room? No, what's being seen and the seeing is all inclusive. In that seeing, and you're not conceptualising about it? No. That's why they say, you know what I'm saying, nothing is seen, yet it is seen. What you're actually seeing is nothing, but it appears to be something. Even now it's disappearing, it's still... Can the mind then be active and engaged without thinking? Can it be a receiving tool thereby, if you like? Don't call that mind. Don't come in and say, if I dropped a snake at your feet right now, you'd be up and off out of the room or away from doing something about it, wouldn't you?
Without thinking. That's spontaneous, effortless, natural, and the effortless natural function is constantly there before it comes up, translated into it. It was always a little bit later, though it's seemingly instantaneous. There's that knowing, that immediate. That knowing is always immediate. And it's not knowing this or knowing that, or the concept. You know what things are before we label them, actually. So we're actually knowing with the mind as well as other aspects of self. Well, it's translated into a concept in other words, if you say that's the mind, the thinking part. But the knowing is that pure intelligence. Pre-mind. Yeah, pre-mind. I was just wondering if the mind is the activity of dividing, conceptualizing, that that is the activity, the interpreting activity.
I was looking to see if the mind has other advantages that we can call on, if you like. But... That's how it translates in words and labels and images and ideas. It translates what is actually going on in the function. Yeah, yes, yeah. Can't do any more than that. There isn't any more. Isn't that a bit ridiculous? Yeah, it is. It's just... Yeah. Yeah. This idea of a still mind, Bob, can't really exist because the nature of the mind being duality has to swing between the opposite polarities. So it can't be all good, or it can't be all bad. Well, have a look at your mind, you know.
But I say pause a thought. Just pause, or you can pause a thought for a moment. Then there's no mind, there's no thinking going on in that thought. You haven't disappeared, you haven't fallen apart. You're prior to the mind in that moment. That is the difference between pure intelligence and thinking. And that needs to be discriminated, because the mind so closely aligned to that intelligence has come to believe it is the intelligence itself. And we think if we stop thoughts, and we blank out, that's the finish, the end of it. It's like putting a piece of iron in the fire. The fire will get red, it'll get hot, it'll pick it up, it'll burn.
It's taken on the qualities of the fire, so it believes that if it was like our minds, it would believe it is the fire itself. Take it out of the fire, it can't do any of those things. Take awareness away, you know, if awareness is not there, how many thoughts can you have? What use is the mind then? So when it's a seed and understood, the mind has got to understand, it's got no substance or any independent nature of itself, it can't stand on its own. Then what must it do? It naturally aligns itself then with intelligence. And what comes through spontaneously, it translates that instead of thinking it's going, you know, got the idea that it can run its own.
And try to do this and do that, and all of us can get ourselves in trouble. Yes, and that explains why somebody who has perhaps looked into meditation has not even seen the mind. I mean, you know, 30, 40, 50 years can go past without them realising that the mind appears within the stillness. The stillness was always there, was never not there. Exactly. And see, they're not seeing the stillness, they're caught in the mind and they're trying to use the mind to find the stillness. When the stillness is there, All the time. All the time. There's more stillness in this room than there is in the universe.
The idea of the universe, the whole stillness, there's more silence in this room than there is sound. Same outside. So the background is constantly and ever there. And the very idea of meditation is some believed in entity trying to still the mind, trying to become silent. There's an entity trying to get somewhere in that. And that's the very conflict that's going on, the belief in an entity trying to get somewhere. There's no meditator, nothing to meditate on, Unwizard leader. He cancelates the meditator and the meditator now. Leaves your presence unaware. Which is constantly. Another way of looking at it, everybody woke up this morning. That bare wakefulness was there.
And into it almost immediately came thoughts, ideas, concepts. And you got up and went about your business. Showered, shaved, got dressed, had your breakfast. All sorts of activities went on. Got in the car and came here. Sitting here listening to this garbage going on. Now has that wakefulness, the wakefulness itself, not much gone on. Has the wakefulness been touched? Has it changed? Has anything been added to it? Anything taken away from that bare wakefulness? The content has come and gone. It's constantly coming and going. But the wakefulness itself has not been touched. Now could it take place outside of the wakefulness? If you're in deep sleep, where is it?
You might get a dream state in deep sleep. But that's taking place in deep sleep. In the deep. And the dream can't take place outside of sleep. You can recall a little bit. The actual dream itself is going on in sleep. This is going on in the wakefulness. Yet the wakefulness has never been contaminated. The wakefulness itself, by any other drama that's gone on through the day, or any other day, all these fearful thoughts you've had, and anxious thoughts, have all taken place on that wakefulness. The wakefulness itself is ineffable. It's something that can't be grasped, inexpressible. But it's something that can't be negated. And without it, nothing could have taken place.
That is what you are. Yes, so if there's no meditator to do the meditation, you wipe them all out. There's no thinker doing the thinking. There's no doer doing the doing. There's no believer doing the believing. They're all gone in one foul swoop. Everything is perfectly resolved in the underworld. It just takes care of itself. Which is access to that old, you know, this is a dream, like when you truly wake up, this reality is just as much a dream as the dream, which I've always had trouble grasping with my mind. But this just gave me a little bit of access to it. So you never grasp the answer in the mind.
No, no, no. It makes more sense. And when you know that you don't need an answer. No, because there's no question. No. Well, it's Sunday morning, Bob. Anywhere now, there's probably thousands of people under the impression that they're going somewhere to get something. Whether it be a church, a synagogue, or even us coming here. As long as there's a separate identity to the things that can get somewhere at some future time, you're still in mind. Mm. Well, you believe you are. You never were in mind. There never was a mind. But we believe, we've taken on that Aaronis belief, and the energy has gone into that belief, making it seemingly real.
Mm. When you know, you know, when you understand the definition of belief, an unquestioned acceptance of something in the absence of reason, acceptance of an alleged fact without positive knowledge or proof, what are you going to do with your beliefs then? They won't stand up. A belief is not the fact. It's not the actuality. It is a belief. Now, any belief can never be the fact or the reality until it's seen. If it's questioned and looked at and seen as the fact, well, it's no longer a belief. And the only fact you're absolutely certain of is the fact of your own being. There is no one who can negate that over any certainty.
No one can say, I am not. But knowing that you are, just in its ordinary nakedness, ordinary purity, I am, you know, knowing that you are without that thought even I am, is always constantly there. And you see, what happens there, that's there first. Like the, like the light from this. And from then on, everything is added onto that. Events, experiences, conditions, added onto that. There, awareness. So the awareness is not contaminated by any of it. It comes and goes. Like the light from this. The light from this. So the, so the girl had had scrapped her credits and made the transfers.