Sailor Bob - Nonduality - Division is in the mind

Marina, Chris, Tess, Dave, Mary, Mel, Ricky, Chani, Justin, James, Terry, Tani, and Bob. Okay, you know what it's all about? What they call non-duality, or what of a better term? All labels, terms are not real. As is stated in Hinduism, Satyajit Ananda, Nama Rupa, the five factors. Existence, consciousness, bliss, name and form. And the name and form are Maya, illusion. The manifestation is made up of name and form. And the names are come up because of the words we've learned. Nature itself hasn't got any words or any labels. It doesn't know when it's winter or summer. Or when the sun's shining or not. But the functioning is going on.

Existence. There is existing, spontaneous existing going on right now. Anyone who is not existing. Nobody can say I'm not existing. Consciousness or knowing. Anyone who is not knowing. You realise you can't negate that either. And anyone who is not happy to be. You wouldn't be going there if you weren't happy to be. How are we going to know that right now? What's our future going to be? What's the continuity of that beingness? But how come we've taken on this idea we're separate? When all the ancient texts and scriptures will point out it's non dual, it's one without a second. That's the idea of non dual not two.

There's absolutely no duality and non duality. There's no duality and, and there can't be any non duality either. intelligence energy which labels we speak and labels all the time. But existing is going on right in this immediate sense. And the existing is what we call consciousness or awareness. And the existing right now awareness of that existence. Existence is aware of itself. But you can't tell me what existence is or what awareness or any of the labels we put on it. So the existence and the consciousness and the being, different labels we put on the one thing. Anyone who's not being right now, anyone who's not existing, anyone who's not knowing.

And we get lost in the words or the labels. Anyone negate that beingness. You can't give it any static form, any shape, but you can't negate it. Non-negatable. The knowing. You can say, I don't know. But wouldn't the knowing have to be there to say it even? So there was no knowing. There's no one who is not that. All this seeking is going on all over the manifestation. Because that's what we're brought into. The idea we need to become something. Because we've taken on the bondage of self. In other words, we've tied ourselves up in this idea we are this person. This individual. And they tell you in the ancient language, this came from persona, the mask.

And what's the mask made up of? Concepts. Words. Ideas. So we've got this conceptual image of what we are. And it has become what we call the person, or believe to be the person. I am that person. Instead of I am the bare existing itself. Even to say existence is taking it away from its actuality. Just the same as seeing, or hearing, or the seen. Existing is their actuality. In the seeing, the seer and the seen come upon it. Dualistic. In the existence, existence and the experiences that are going on in that existence come about in the existing. That wasn't there. And it's all spontaneous.

When you look at time, time's a mental concept. There's no such thing as time. You ask yourself, is there a past if I don't think about it? Do you need to pause a thought or stop a thought at the moment to see what's going on without a thought? Is there a future? And you can anticipate and imagine a future, but you can't live a moment in the future. And when you look at going back and trying to live a moment in the past, you'll realise you can't live a moment in the past. But you can recall the past. From memory you can recall it. The only actuality given in that past is when you're recalling it right in this moment.

So even to call it a moment is not correct. So everything is going on in this immediacy, this actuality, this spontaneous functioning. This is where the living, the being, the existing, experiencing, tasting, touching, smelling is going on and it's all transient. It's all constantly changing. There is no future. There is nothing static about it. And the seemingly solidified functioning seems to change, like the body you've got now is changing transiently, constantly. But the essence is appearing in the basic space in which it all appears in. That's what they call the basic space of phenomena, in which all the phenomena and manifestations appear in that space.

Space is emptiness. And they call it, the Buddha called it, a cognising emptiness. Now the term for cognising is knowing. That's a knowing emptiness. And we take it on the idea that we know the emptiness. Instead of saying it's the cognising emptiness, we think we are the cognising. And he told us that then, that emptiness is form. It is a space like that pattern, shapes and forms vibrate and appear on or in, whatever way you like to call it. And the form, he says, can be nothing other than the emptiness. So, though there's seeming solidity here, substance here, naturalness, and out there, things are seeming to be solid, they can all be broken down when investigated.

And in the breaking down of them, you recognise what we've taken to be real and the actual is false. And then in the investigation, the false cannot stand up to that investigation. And what you must, what must you finish? What must you finish up with? What you've always and never been. The spontaneous emanation, emanating spontaneously right in this moment, hasn't got any beginning, hasn't got any end. Body has seemingly solidified, it's that spirit, if you like to call it, or essence has seemingly solidified into something substantial, which enables the mind or the thinking, which is not as solid, as it is in the body, conceptualising, to appear through or express through.

So this body-mind entity is a fiction. So it's seemingly real. What are you going to do about it? When you realise how it came about in the first place, how it's living in right now, when you didn't have any words, you didn't know anything about life or existence, or anything of those things, when that life essence formed in it, that little embryo, little foetus, now you're formed into this solid substance, seemingly person, that's grown you and lived you and expressing as you all the time, all the way through that, all the so-called time. Every moment is spontaneous, fresh and new. Life is constantly transient and changing.

But we've taken on this belief we are something solid and substantial, formed the conceptual image or entity, and that mental conceptual image has become the reference point, the self-centre or the ego, which everything becomes relative to. And relativity or relationship is duality. Me and the other relationship or relationship. And so we've taken this image, which is now a mental image, a conceptual image, we've taken to be this body-mind entity that we believe it is able to be. And suffering, we've taken to be this body-mind entity that we believe it is able to be. And all the suffering, psychological, mental, physical, and all the suffering that's taken place in this manifestation has come about because of thinking.

Existing or existence is constantly changing. And so for me, I don't know for anybody else but the so-called me, it was necessary to look into it. And I didn't do any of it, though I thought I was living my life in a moment of just being a moment. There's never been a moment that this so-called person has lived at all. Just like out there in the manifestations, but recognizing the essence of it, abiding as that essence, the essence doesn't change. It's the only thing that has never changed. Call it essence, call it what you like. Call it God, call it spirit, call it energy. None of the labels are the actuality of it.

But that hasn't changed. The content is constantly changing. The pattern, shape, and form, the mire, the illusionary patterns are constantly changing. Vibrating out there in the manifestation, in here in the so-called mind or the essence, in the body, all around, everywhere, the manifestation is constantly changing. But it's never been anything other than mire. Illusion, a phenomenal manifestation, and the definition of phenomena which appears to be, only appearing to be so. Where do the words come from? Out of the silence, a vibration, a sound emerges. And the sound, through the capacity of reasoning, we've formed into words. There are lots of other sounds that are not words.

They're just vibrations of energy. And through the organs in this pattern, the body, there can be thinking, seeing, feeling, tasting, touching, smelling, all seemingly happen to an individual person, a separate entity. But is there any one of them? It's static. The only thing that hasn't changed is that sense of presence, which was the label on sense of presence, or the presence awareness. And there's nobody who is unaware right now. Everybody is aware. But what that awareness is, you can't give it any static form or shape or anything like that. And it continually vibrates in different patterns, shapes, forms, which appear to be so, through the eyes.

The seeing is happening through the eyes, the hearing is happening through the ears. Translated by the thought, I see, the thought, I hear, the thought, I am aware. All thoughts are words. Words are sounds, sounds are vibrations, vibrations are movement of energy. So, it's all the same, and it needs, that essence needs something to express through. So it expresses through these myriads of different patterns, shapes and forms. In its totality, it is emptiness, nothing. Patterns, shapes and forms constantly change. The belief was that there was this person, this individual, this separate entity for many, many years. And it suffered accordingly, because of that. And that suffering, when it couldn't take it any longer, is what turned it around and started to look a little beyond it.

Instead of constantly relating to that egoic form, the recognition came that it was bondage, selfishness, self-centeredness, self-will. The idea of a personal self. But again, the scriptures and ancient texts will tell you there's only one self, one self. One self expressing and appearing as everything. Relating it to the personal self. Know that you are self-aware, you are self-knowing, you are self-seeing. I am that self. That's the Mahavikra, the great word, I am that. The vibrating essence expresses as the thought, sets the presence as the thought, I am, that's the primary thought. I vibrates in the opposite as I and me, dualism. But every so-called pattern, shape and form in this realm will say I, the primary words you've learned.

You can naturally refer it to I or me. It's me it's happening to. This investigation, as I said, the false cannot stand with an investigation. It was pointed to here and many different ways, lots of ways I couldn't recognize it, couldn't see it. But it took me to where it was needed, the me, the so-called me, to where it was needed to go to, where it was recognized. And it was a place I didn't, the me didn't want to go, didn't want to be in it, didn't want it to happen to. But in spite of the me, it did happen. Just the same as it's happening right now.

And then, the way, things I'd heard many times before but didn't understand what they were, they opened up and they were seen and recognized and resonated with and taken to be the real. And that's when life turned around and changed. The seeing through it was immediate. But the habitual patterns didn't drop off immediately. But the intensity in seeing through them couldn't be, couldn't put the same energy and belief into them anymore. And as it went along, and it went on further and further, there'd be less intensity going on when they didn't bother me at all. And they can still come up. And they will come up.

You don't have to be free of thought. You can be free of thought but not dropping all thought as we think free of thought means. That's mean letting the thought flow freely. Don't fixate on the thought and keep it there. And there's no wonder when I say don't, no one can do it or don't do it. And the recognition, it'll naturally come about. And then say to yourself, I don't need to go there. There is no need to go there, so why go there? Thoughts can be utilised. Some thoughts can be utilised. But most, being a vibration, it'll always vibrate in the opposite. Now the thoughts will be self-destructive.

That's the thought that I've been in bondage to. So, go, alright. Still utilised. And just like the metaphors of the blue sea, go down to the ocean, I'll say, get me a bucket of blue water out of the sea. You'll see the sea's not blue. And you realise it wasn't blue at any time. Never was, never will be. The water in the Mirage, when was there ever water there? When you drive up to it, it disappears. You must realise that if it's not there now, when could there ever be any water there ever? There never was. The blue sky, the rainbow, the snake and a rope, all these things are pointed to, pointing out that this appearance, this phenomenal manifestation, is not what it appears to be.

Though it's still going to appear, every time you go out or down to the ocean, it'll still appear to be blue. The sky appears to be blue. The water appears in the Mirage, will appear on the road again. The rainbow, you'll see the colours in it. Still appears to be so. But if you're not investing energy of belief into it, how long is it going to hang around? Or stick around? And the manifestation will be infinite. Spontaneous, ever fresh and new. And if you're not relating all the fictitious beliefs onto it, and losing sight of the reality of it, it can be a wondrous emanation.

An amazing and wondrous emanation, the way it's unfolding. And all unfolding by itself. It's important that you look into this me, for me it was, whether it is for you or not, I don't know. Knowing for certain, I know for certain there, that I'll never find the answer in the mind. And I quit looking there. I don't bother going into it. Though all these new ideas, having a lot of new, you know, new therapy, all the other sorts of things, psychotherapy, this and that, come up, all looking for answers in the mind. They can help to a certain extent. But they'll never take you home.

Because the answer is not in the mind. It is the nature of the mind to vibrate. And how often have you seen that? Something's come up and I've recognised this, and that's good. But, the but races away again into another thought. And then another, another but. Or what if? Or how? Or why? Who wants to know? The conceptual image that you believe is the me, or the I wants to know. And what you know, is not it. It is the knowing itself. That explain and express, in the right understanding or recognition of yourself. Without some conceptual idea on it, I've got it, or I understand it, or I am this, or I am that.

That's still not out of it. And you hear that quite often, I saw through the me. But it came back. If you saw through it, and it doesn't exist, you realise it never existed, how could it come back? Only because the belief was taken on again. And they tell you, belief is not the actuality. Look in the dictionary, and look up the definition of the word belief. An unquestioned acceptance of something, in the absence of reason. Acceptance of an alleged fact, without positive knowledge or proof. And when you investigate, and it comes about that the earth is not flat, the reasoning tells you that it never was flat, or the blue sea.

Reasoning can be very useful in working on a thing. And how did this me come about? Because words we've learnt. We've added them in. We've added on to it. When you came into existence, realise you never had any words. Because you go back and have a look, you can't remember your birth. We all say, I was born. But can anyone actually remember your birth? And when you look at that, ask the little baby, that's born a week or so ago, can you ask him, was he born? Does he know his birth? He doesn't. How could he? Do you know the nine months he was in the womb forming?

No. We get out and after two years we say, I was born. And take it to be something real or actual. That pattern, shape and form was born, if we put the label on it. It's a body, it's a mind, it's a human being. When we learnt words. And the word's not the thing. Take the word water, drink the word if you can. Wash in the word, swim in the word, drown in the word, you can't. The word fire is the same. You can't burn yourself with the word. You can't cook with it. You can't eat yourself with it. This word, I or me, have a look at that and see what the I or me can do.

The word itself. And you realise it can't do anything if that life essence, that intelligence, energy, the activity of knowing, being, loving to be, wasn't there, couldn't have a single thought for it, feeling or emotion. So see, what we call life or existing or existence is doing it all. Every one of us are that life. We're not the pattern, shape and form that's been formed by that life. Just the same as the trees, the flowers, the earth, the planets, and things have all been formed by that life. Sentience or beingness or whatever. So this body-mind was formed by the life and this life itself, it's keeping it going.

It's life itself and the life moves on. The pattern breaks down, but there's still the life of the bacteria, things that are rotting the body. Millions of bacteria are forming. They're life too and breaking it down. And out of that life, it goes back into the earth, there might be a seed or something in the earth that'll get nourishment, the chemicals of that life. And life continues to form. There's never been any beginning or any end to it. Take your stance there as being the life instead of the person, the separate individual. Investigate and have a look. We do this by asking you to have a look at this.

You see everybody's seeing right now, everybody's hearing right now. Isn't that a fact? Yes, I'm seeing and I'm hearing. Ask yourself, is this my eye telling me I see? Realise my eye can't say I see. I look around, I'm looking at everything. It's my eye, I look at this, look at that. It's not. Head's moving, and it's taken in, and the recognition or realising of it at the moment, and the thought comes up. I see. My eye's not saying I see, but the thought comes up. And when the eye sees, it's not a pure seeing, because now it's got this I see, this conceptual image that I've formed.

Me, Bob, the entity, the individual, I call I or me instead of seeing it as pure, what is it, pure being or pure self. So the thing is the pure self has now become this conceptual image. The same with the hearing. My eye, my ear's not saying listen to this or listen to that. It can't say anything, but it's the instruments with which the hearing's happening. And it's translated again by the thought. So the thought, I see. Have a look at that. Your eye doesn't say you see, the ear doesn't tell you I hear. The thought comes up and translates, so it's this translation, the thinking, that's going on as the cause of all our problems.

So that's the me, the me is the cause. What I see cannot see. The thought, I see, cannot see. The seeing is happening as it's translated by the thought, I see. And it's that thought-up entity that thinks of seeing. The hearing is translated by the thought, I hear. And the individual so-called person which I've got put the eye on, there's an eye on me, thinks it can hear. There's nobody who is unaware right at this moment. If you're not unaware at this moment, when was the moment when you weren't unaware? You look back and say, shit, no, I've been aware all the time. Do you think the awareness is changing?

And you think my awareness, I'm the awareness, but that unawareness doesn't need a me or a label on it. You know it is. Aware. You can't say you're unaware. Now unaware or aware is translations of it. Another way of putting it is knowing or being. Different labels on it. Existing. Can you negate any of it? You can't. The ing on it is all functioning. When we put the I or me on it, we've divided. Thinking is happening, I think. Who thinks? Me, Bob, the entity. The individual who believed in person. If I've got that label on, who's thinking? Thinking is just happening. And it's happening spontaneously.

It doesn't need a thinker to think a thought, or a feeler to feel a feeling. They're happening spontaneously, but it's translated into the thinker and the thought, the seer and the seen, the feeler and the felt, the experiencer and the experienced. Translated dualistically, but there can't be a single thing. There can't be a seer without seeing. There can't be a thinker without thinking. There can't be a feeler without feeling. Be a me without the beingness. Awareness of that beingness is so-called bliss, is happiness. Awareness is the being, knowing and loving the being. There's that shit in there, that different language for it. It's going on.

When you can't get any of the labels in it, without any labels, you can't say there's anything wrong anymore. So that's what we point to and ask the question. Look along those lines. Have you got any doubts or questions? People have seen it there, know it. Some of you might be a fair way along the line. Some of you might be so far. If you think there's a fair way along the line, there's no way, there's no distance to it. Anyway, tell us about it. Open up. My mind is not as good as it was. I forget things, can't express them in a way that way.

But there's enough there to hang onto if you want to. Clear as a bell. I said it's clear as a bell. I'm talking about there can't be a thinker without thought. Without thinking. Thinking, say it again. There can't be a thinker without thinking. A thinker without thinking. Can't be a seer without seeing. What's your next thought going to be? You can't say your next thought's going to arise, isn't it? You can't say, I thought. No. So I suppose it strikes me here that what is the thought if there's no thinker? Pure thinking. Pure thinking. Because there's a reference point that's constantly involved in that energy, or that energy of thought.

So if the content of the thinking from the apparent thinker isn't accurate, what is that that's happening? Well, the prayers have been divided. It's been divided into the thinking and the thought. If it's just pure thinking, it'll move on. So the thinker's just another thought too. Yeah. The me, the thinker. Great question. I found out that for some people it was helpful when I was explaining that analogy, it was helpful to see it as a field. When Bob is talking about seeing, the process of seeing, is one singular process. It's almost like a space of seeing, a field of seeing. And in that field of seeing, the mind comes up and divides it to two.

The one who is seeing, and the object that is seen. But without that field of seeing, obviously there would be no space for any objects or any subjects. But also without the subject, there wouldn't be any objects, because as we know from quantum physics, you do have to have an observer to report observed. And also, without the object, the seer is not a seer anymore. So it really is a singular thing, the one process of seeing, but the seer and the seen, the whole trinity, seeing, seer and the seen, are actually just one activity. And same with thinking. You have the field of thinking, or space of thinking, or possibility of thinking, and in that space, the thinker and the thought come up.

Thinker is subject, thought is an object. And the tricky part is, when we take a thinker as something permanent, and the thoughts are changing. Thinker is always there, observer is always there, seer is always there, and the objects are changing. So I'm still, I'm stable, and this is not. So it feels now, it gives the subject the solidity. But it's again only illusion that mind creates, because the thinker is totally inseparable from the thought. Like when I have the thought, I'm worthless, the thinker is already reacting to that thought. And when I have the thought, oh, life is wonderful, again, it's just one process. So thinker and thought are just division of the singular activity of thinking.

So everything is singular. Seeing, I mean, it feels like diversity, like there is a space of cognizing emptiness. And that cognizing emptiness filters through the body-mind machine, through this bio-computer, through the mind, through the computer. It splits into the space, cognizing emptiness, into a space of seeing, space of hearing, space of thinking, space of sensing, which would be the skin, or a little bit around it. So it's already the one space is filtered through the senses, but it's still one space. And even with the filtering, it's still one space, the space of seeing, the space of hearing. And now someone comes up, the thought comes up, the thinker, as Jane said, thinker, which is just another thought, comes up and takes credit.

No, these are my thoughts, and those are your thoughts. And that's fantastic because it makes communication possible. If I wouldn't distinguish my thoughts from your thoughts, we would never communicate. And then my perspective, I'm seeing the mirror, and you are seeing this mirror, because you're looking from a different perspective. That's brilliant, but it's part of the appearance and once we know it we're not bound to it. We are all the same space of perception but one camera is here and another camera is here. One computer, the software and the hardware is here, the processing activity and one is there. But it's still one space, it's still one activity, it's just different points.

It's like experiencing, experiencer and experiencer. There's no experiencer experiencing, there is experiencingness or whatever experience but experiencing is going on right now. We're not used to thinking, we think there's no big deal going on out there, we think we're not experiencing. But anyone who's not experiencing right now in this world, pure experiencing. Before it's labelled by the experiencer, I experienced that wonderful thing or the great such thing or the great such thing. So it's like experiencing. That was my experience. It's just pure experience, just like pure thinking, seeing it's all the same. And you can't negate anybody not experiencing right now. You might not have looked at it that way before, but look at it right now and see.

Experiencing is life expressing in the moment. The fact that I'm sitting on the chair is an experience itself. Yeah. Who's experiencing that? You say me, but you say them. But see, take them, experience. And the experience are off. It's just pure seeing, experiencing. But I take it as if I'm experiencing my bum on the chair. Take the one hand and the other off. It's pure experiencing. But when you say experiencing and seeing, everything just happens. Yep. And so you're saying that nobody's causing it. No. Well, have a look. The heart's beating right now. Are you beating your heart? No. Welling your hair and your fingernail?

No. Or breathing? No. You don't? Yeah. Not relating to the conceptual me. I'm breathing. I'm beating my heart. I'm seeing. But it's going on. It's going on. So when you say it's just happening, it's not happening because the little eye makes it happen, but something else is making it happen, which is life itself. Life itself. And you are that. So what are you going to be, the little eye that then? Oh, I understand that. Yeah. I understand that. Because it's a bit confusing when you say, well, it's just happening. Well, it's like that assumes that nothing is causing it to happen. But it's always, there is a cause.

And the cause is life itself or that infinite being or whatever we want to call it. It's spontaneous. That's good. You're telling it to it. I don't think I know that. And also, you would be equally right if you would say it's uncaused. Because if you think about causing, like what is causing the seeing? What is causing the seeing? The life is causing the seeing, but life is also causing the body. Life is causing your parents to meet and get that little embryo to grow you. And the food that they were eating was also contributing. And for the food, the farmers that were farming the food, and the sun that was shining on them, and the gravity that kept the moon rotating.

So it's like really the whole universe, every little speck of dust is contributing to the wind to blow, to the seeing, for the seeing to happen. So you could say infinite amount of causes or completely uncaused. Yeah. Yeah. Totally beyond. Nothing is separate from the whole lots of things. Nothing is happening by itself. It's sort of everything's happening as a whole. Yes. Life is ever-fresh and free. Cause and effect. It's cause and effect. Cause and effect. It just keeps. Yeah. When you see the cause as a fiction, how can there be an effect without a cause? Yeah. Now it's me, the belief in me that's causing all your psychological problems and fear, anger, and everything else.

You recognize the name, eh? Where's the effect going to lodge? That's what a so-called karma is. It's cause and effect. So you just dissolved all your karma. Yeah. Yeah, it's oversimplification because you could say that there is multitude of causes or thousand infinite amount of causes and one effect. And then again, infinite amount of causes and effect. And we simplify it to say, OK, this is falling on the floor because I dropped it. But that's not true. The whole universe created this thing. And the possibility of dropping is everything. Everything included, gravity, the structure of the universe, the matter, the perception, everything. So it's like there is no single cause-effect relation.

It's only belief, cause, and effect. And we believe that, yeah, if I'm the body, all my problems will be the problems of the body. Yes, so yes, my suffering is caused by the belief of being the body. So it seems like, yes, there is a cause and effect. If I don't believe I'm the body, the problems of the body are not my problems anymore because I'm not the body. Like the problems of my car are not my problems in the same way because, of course, life will resolve them the way it will, whether I believe it or not. And you say, when something drops from the floor, why does a piece of toast butter sign up and jam?

Oh, where's all the butter? It's done. Yes. Worthy as well. Mm. Yes. It's incredible, really, the way you explain it, Kat. Yes. It's incredible. It's incredible. Yes. And yet this little me takes ownership of things. I mean, it's mind-boggling, really, isn't it? It is. When you think what you just explained, it's just so beautiful and so all-encompassing. And yet the me goes, oh, but it's me doing it. It's like pathetic, really. When you see it, it's so pathetic. Yeah, no humility. No humility at all. But I did it. I got it wrong. Oh, but I, oh, look at me. See, if the me has got no power whatsoever, how can it do it?

That's the thing, necessarily investigate and see, what power has this idea of me got? What power has the thought got? No power in the thought. Without the life there, what you call a life, if you call it that, whatever, that's the only power. That's omnipotence, total power. You know that? And how beautiful it is to actually realize that you are not guilty of any screw-ups ever. You are not a failure because if something went wrong, not the way it was supposed to go, the whole universe is guilty. It's not that one little me who screw up, who is unworthy. It's a setup. It's the way life unfolds.

How lighter you travel then. And then, of course, if you're not guilty and you can't blame yourself or shame yourself for things that the whole universe has set up, including your personality, your growing, your conditioning, your belief system, values and everything, you can't blame anyone either. Because if you were not the doer, neither are they. And then now, try to live the life in which we are not only nonstop judging everyone and fitting into and going into somebody else's business to tell them how much worse they are than you are. All that mental noise drops off. It's not necessary anymore. Yes, okay. Somebody's an asshole.

But it's not their fault. It's the life created them this way. It's like don't... I'm in pain in this. As long as you don't use it. As long as you don't use it to your own ends. That's the problem, isn't it? But how can you use it? No, you can't. The whole universe will use it. No, I know, I know. But yes, some people think when they've got this that they can just, they can just, yeah. I heard a little... I'm going to tell you a story that I heard. And it's someone that was the Indian, what's it called, Abhigita? Abhigita, yes. And he thought, well, I'm not the doer, so I'm not responsible for anything.

So he robbed a bank. So I'm not the doer. So he got caught and was taken to court. And he said to the judges, well, you've got to save yourself because you play guilty. He goes, well, no, because I'm not the doer. I'm not the body, mind. So therefore, I'm not guilty. And the judge said, OK, that's fair enough. I'm not going to put you to jail. I'm just going to put your body and your mind to jail. There you go. Yes. And you can do the five years. Yeah, apparently, the fact that you are not guilty of your screw-up, it doesn't mean you are not responsible for the consequences.

That's right. This one is unavoidable. Yeah. You know, the fact that the pedophiles and murderers are not guilty of their things doesn't mean that we should let them free and they won't be isolated. Of course, people, you know, the society is self-organizing. It will give you a thought. It won't be your thought. It will be life giving you a thought to create the system, the justice system, which is, again, self-organizing. It's not perfect. It's just life flowing. It may get better. It may get worse. Or it will be changing anyway. I've got a little phone box one. Oh, yeah. Tell us about this one. I love that one.

Yeah, that's a good one. A fellow was talking to me years ago. He was in a phone box here. I was up in the bush. And he says, he says, well, if that's the case, I won't do anything. I said, okay, try staying in the phone box. He's not there today. So doing happens. Seeing happens. Hearing happens. All spontaneous and natural. Effortless. And also, if you haven't been a doer, like recognizing that there is no personal self, it doesn't mean that, okay, right now I got that knowledge. So from today on, I stopped doing. No, there was no personal doer yesterday either. Whether I hear about it or I don't hear about it, there is no personal doer.

So whatever I've achieved throughout my life has been done by life, not by me. I only took credit for it. And from today on, I will stop doing it. Because it doesn't make sense anymore. I can't believe into it anymore. But it doesn't mean that everything I've achieved so far was my achievement. It was again the setup. I didn't choose my personality. I didn't choose my motivations, my desires, my dreams, my drives. Life has created it by everything, by society, religion, parents, schools, everything. So you can stop taking credit for it, but you can't stop what's happening. Yeah, you can't stop. So it's all happening.

Absolutely. It's just like, you know, if you were a dog, you're going to bark. If you were a parrot, you're going to be parroting or monkey, whatever. I mean, every personality is unique. You are a musician, you're going to create music. You are an asshole, you're going to stay asshole. I mean, whatever. Not necessarily. Well, yes, certain patterns do drop off. Because a lot of being asshole comes from suffering. Like it's not really many people who would want to be asshole. Who would want to hurt someone if they don't suffer. People who are happy and who are content with themselves, they'd rather spread happiness. They share, they radiate happiness.

So being an asshole comes very often from suffering. And suffering comes obviously from identification with the me and preoccupation with myself. The self-obsession. So part of those patterns naturally drop. Like also wanting the attachment and desires, they don't drop overnight. But slowly, slowly the investment is... The attention doesn't go there anymore because the belief doesn't. And then you see that there's not the same reaction there used to be. Or there's not the same... The pattern just drops away and you think, wow, that's amazing. I didn't do anything. It took me a while to make sense of your answer to my question. You could see the cogs turning, Tess.

The cogs were turning. And... Yeah, it makes sense now that the pure thinking, the pure seeing is happening. The content of it is subjective. And I suppose I was attached to the content thinking that that was the thing. Personal. Personal. Whereas as you say, it's like it depends on the viewpoint. What you're seeing and what I'm seeing varies, but we both see. And it's both impersonal. Yeah. There is the same, yeah. So it just feels a bit more distance from it now to just watch it rather than investing and trying to change the content, not being driven by it. Yeah. Yeah. I love that analogy of the railway station.

It is. I can't help it. I just keep coming back to it. Go for it. Please. The railway station and the trains, you know, the trains are going to keep coming backwards and forwards and backwards and forwards and backwards and forwards. But the railway station always does the same. And the doing also happens. I mean, you know, the changing environment or changing yourself also happens. It's not that because it's impersonal. I don't care anymore. I mean, you know, it's still actually the more energy, the more freedom you have, the more you actually care. You see someone falling on the street and you find yourself giving them a hand.

And the change is inevitable. It's something that is always there. So you're looking at things and instead of getting involved and having a judgment about it, this is wrong, this is happening to me and I've got to fight with or whatever. Now, the same thing happens, but there is no story about me. And the same activity happens, but there is no story about me. And without the story about me, a lot more energy is available to actually deal with the situation. Yes, because it's just everything is spontaneous. Yeah. I sort of think of myself, even though there is no self, as a responder or the responding, sorry, not as a responder, as the responding rather than the responder.

Yeah. You know, because when you're open, you're open to the responding, to what is. But when you're, you know, caught up in that egoic illusory persona or me, you're responding from a past memory of yourself. Yes. You're not responding spontaneously. It's like you get out of your own way. Get out of your own way, yeah. It's a travelling life. It's a travelling lighter. I love that expression. It's a travelling lighter because you're not like the water in a bucket, stagnant. You're like... Like river flowing. Yeah. Yeah. More compassionate. Well, that's your nature, you know. I reckon you're just, when you're, yeah, you're just naturally more compassionate.

Yeah, there was a research done on compassion and it's quite a good research. Yeah. It's a very good research. I think it's a good research. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It's really amazing. I mean, of course it's science. Science is the story. Everything is a story. But it has been proven beyond doubts on many, many different sets of thousands of students that if you have time and you have no pressing problems and you have no self-obsession or fear of survival you are compassionate because that's what creates, what helps the societies to develop. So, it is something that nature has promoted.

But of course, if you are busy and you're suffering and you have no time... and your life is threatened then yes you you bypass someone who is bleeding themselves to death and then won't react and it's yeah I saw a lot of experiments like this like yes the compassion is our nature and it is obscured by the story of me having no time no the compassion side they've got more than anyone else I will they have one of the labels the Buddhist one of the labels the Buddhists have on they called the great perfection and they say good the great perfection is non conceptual awareness great perfection or absolute one of the same thing you know is doing conceptual awareness awareness without putting any concepts on any labels.

Now you look at that and you realize you look around the room as soon as you come in this room you form a concept about everyone very might be very subtle this one so and so and they'll form a concept about you and you'll have a concept about yourself which concept would be right? No. You could have yours. It's only to you that I know. When you realize a concept all the concept is is a mental construct a thought up. In that same vein it came to me the other day that I know everything. I know everything. There's nothing I don't know even I know I don't know.

I was just going to say do you know it though? I know everything. Well it's not you that knows. It's the knowing. It's egotistical. It's me. What do you say to that? If you have no concept about them they have no concept they have a concept of you which concept would be right? Kiss. Very sad. Well we'll publish that one. Well taking a concept to be a mental construct there's no concept that could ever be right. So who can ever be superior to you without a concept? Who can ever be inferior to you without a concept? And what would you want of the other persons without a concept?

You don't think they've got something I want or I need or I like this or I don't want that. Cancel it all out. That's the absolute or the greater fiction. Non-conceptual awareness. You're still not unaware when all that's going on. And when concepts do and they will appear again you know. A concept to be a concept. You're going to fall back into it after a while or you're going to leave it be. Yeah because concepts will appear. Bob still has a concept. I bet he's got a concept about that cat stretching on the carpet. Evil cat. There you go. Concept. But knowing it for what it is it doesn't really it's not a reality anymore.

It's not a truth anymore. Mental construct is mental construct. It's a projection. It's a projection that we put on the on the pure seeing hearing tasting touching smelling. And that's the nature of the mind. It is. So we can enjoy it. We can enjoy concepts coming up. Coming and going. Just like sounds come and go. Concepts come and go. Thoughts come and go. And nobody's bound by them. They're just part of the landscape. The biggest problem with this book is the answer's not in the mind. It's just that. But the thing is you don't realize for a very long time and I know time doesn't exist.

That you're actually doing that. You don't realize you're referring back to the mind because you say okay that makes sense. And then you've spent all this time back in there trying to solve it. Foiled again. So how do you get out? Stop. The only thing you can do is just write it down. Stop. Recognize. Recognize the activity. For what it is. Maybe it will stop. Maybe it won't. It's it's nature. That's the thing you just don't realize you're doing. That's right. Because you're lost. But it's great when you see it. It's quite funny. Because once you see the activity of the mind where are you looking from?

You're already beyond the mind. Exactly. Tess. There's a couple of things that came up. There's a couple of things that came up. When I heard you asking those questions. One. The thinking that happens. The content of the thinking that happens for Tess today. Where Tess seems to have arrived. As a person today. Given your history and how you've moved and evolved and so on and so forth. So that content of the mind that you're looking for. That's what you're looking for. That content of. And I'm just talking about thoughts. I know you're fully aware of that. But bear with me. That content that is experienced today.

Has that content over time. If we go back in time. Has that content changed? Yes. Yes. Of course it has. The content that's going on there was not going on when you were seven. No. So it constantly changes. Doesn't it? So if you just now. Sensate if you like. Your presence. Your absolute presence. Not the content. But just the presence. If you can sensate that. And then ask yourself the same question. Has that ever changed? Beautiful. Beautiful. Always stays the same. And then what happens? And then what happens? It's not the same. Then what happens is. We overlay. Overlay concepts. On top of that presence.

And take the conceptual thinking. The content of the thinking. To be who we are. And take for granted. The presence. Totally take that for granted. We don't even look there. And in fact. When we're questioned on it. Does your me actually exist? Yeah of course it does. Of course it does. Because of that presence. That's always been there. So. One of the tricks. That I saw. Is that this. Conceptual me. If you like. Or the idea of self. The reason it feels so solid. And the reason it feels so. I'm talking about the me. The reason it feels so real. And the reason it feels so here.

Is because it's. The me thinks that. It owns that. Awareness. That presence. And. And it's assumed that. A long long time ago. When we were quite young. And assumed that a long long time ago. And hasn't questioned it since. No question. You know just. Yeah of course I'm here. Of course I'm seeing. Of course I'm hearing. Of course I'm thinking. Of course I'm speaking. You know. So that that you experienced. A couple of days ago. When you were at the pool. Was that that hasn't changed. That's. Who and what. You actually are. And then but we've been taught. Through conditioning. Being a part of society and so on.

To believe that what we are is what goes on in here. And we're not even responsible for what goes on in there. Kat said it beautifully. Not at all. Responsible for what goes on in there. So. This. It's all that ever changes. Is an idea. That's it. Thoughts. They keep changing. So. When Bob says you know. You can't negate your own beingness. That's the point. That I'm trying to make now. Is if you go back in time. Is there ever a point. Where you can say. You weren't. I am not. And I'm not. I'm not referring to the content. I'm not referring to thoughts. I'm just referring to that absolute.

Being presences. You will find that there's never been a time back there. Where that presence has turned into someone else's. I'm now experiencing Jane's presence. That doesn't happen. It's constant. So. That. The. The notion of a. A me that's seeing this. Or a me that's becoming aware of this. Or all of that stuff. Is crap. Again it's just a concept. It's all. All of that communication. Or all of that stuff. Is still all contained in the content of thought. Which keeps changing. Today you'll feel great. Tomorrow you'll feel shit-ass. And nothing will have happened. Nothing will have happened. Just the thinking will change. And you didn't do anything to do that.

Because what is it? What's it appearing on? It's that presence that's never changed. What do the trains coming in and out. And the station on. The platform. That which is never changed is the one self. That's how it is. When you put it on my self. Instead of saying it's the one self. It's my self. We take it as a personal self. It's not something that's seen any very solid. Because it's reinforced constantly. And that reinforcement I think is what there's awareness of now. That there's been almost like this ritualistic behaviour. To maintain a memory. And I think there's been openings of. Oh wow. That's just this.

Me trying to fix itself. And to feel some sense of safety. And to feel some sense of safety. Or predictability. Or control. It's ironic. I've experienced on a few occasions over the course of my life. I don't know if anyone else in the room has. But I've experienced on a few occasions. Maybe half a dozen. It was rare. Maybe half a dozen times. Where I've been so engrossed in what's going on in my head. Where I've been so engrossed in what's going on in my head. And it was so bloody important. It was so incredibly important. I couldn't put it down. And I couldn't. I couldn't shift attention away from what was going on in my head.

I couldn't shift attention away from what was going on in my head. It was bloody important. And all of a sudden. I forgot. Completely what I was thinking about. Like it just left. And for just a brief moment. And for just a brief moment. I experienced absolute relief and peace. It was like a microsecond. It really was. But I can remember experiencing it on a few occasions. But I can remember experiencing it on a few occasions. The very next thing that kicked in was. What was that? That was so important. I've got to recall whatever that was. I can't remember what that was. I can't remember what that was.

It's a bit like you're losing yourself. You forget. Yeah. And I've heard a lot of people come here over the years. And I've heard a lot of people come here over the years. They really freak out. When they realise there's no me. They see what Bob's pointing to. They see what Bob's pointing to. They freak out. And they go, no, no. You know. Holding on to the skin of a thing. They don't want to die. And so it's. I die momentarily. Saint Paul said I die daily. I die momentarily. So basically. It's the death of the me. Basically. That's what it is. Because the image is never the real.

You are not the me. You're not a collection of thoughts about that beingness that you are. about that beingness that you are. And is death in the same way as the death on the rainbow. When the rain stops. It's not really a death. No, no, that's right. It's the death of the image you have about yourself. Which is a memory. Which is the past. Which you project into the future. And that's the whole scenario. And then all of a sudden you go. Like Terry explains. that you know he was I don't know you'd have to do it cherry but it's like he he would be hanging on for dear life right here right here right here you know and then all of a sudden bang you know I don't know you do it so well with your hands I was trying to imitate you know but it's so true it's like it's like hang on let go hang on let go you know and also new research is again science which is just a story but it shows it's not that new I mean everyone heard about experiments with lobotomy and networks in the brain that creates self in time but quite famous book came out which is called flat mind and it's actually showing the way the mind is designed the whole software there in the brain is designed to keep a consistency so whatever the story we are telling ourselves we want to continue and be consistent about the stories the guy is actually debating the idea of mental debt the that there is a deep psychology that there there is a place a source from all the beliefs stream and value streams and that build over life the truth is I mean it's we know it from non-duality perspective but science is actually breaking into it also mind is a fantastic improviser is just an amazing machinery that responds right away to the environment in a way that try to be consistent which whatever the memories are available and experiments that are proving it are not only experiments that that are used to prove reincarnation and stuff like this but even testing people for their own political beliefs or their preferences regarding food and music and altering those a little bit and then showing them altered result without letting them know it has been altered and they would beautifully justify the false beliefs that were just implanted showing and exposing that mind doesn't really have a debt it's an improviser it's a wonderful improviser it's an amazing inspiring brilliant piece of software which we didn't really we managed to make a faster computers that can calculate more of the p behind the comma but we can't we didn't really create artificial intelligence which would be so brilliant that would make sense of so many different factors and project so many past meanings on the factors and create consistent world and consistent self in that world so it is really all about the the capacity of the bio computer to stay in the role but the role is also changing we can adapt to it and we can adapt to it and we can adapt to it and we can adapt to it and we can adapt to it and we can adapt to it and we can come to 30 things and they all have different roles but all of them are just a mechanism are just a patterns when we can step out of the mind and watch the beauty of this behavior the freedom that stems from it is absolutely incredible it's completely different different way of experiencing the reality where you not bound to the content anymore and you don't care about this consistency it will go on like somebody was asking before the question about responding to James is there anything you would like to add to what you said about this?

you were talking about the responding machine I remember the little story that Nisargadatta was saying about oh but how will you react when you see the people fighting will you stop it the compassion or will you do what and he says how would I know I have no clue I have no idea what I'm gonna do next same as I have no idea what would the next thought is gonna come up I have no idea what I will think do believe whatever I have why bother thinking about future it will again show up and the mind will brilliantly spontaneously respond trying to hold into consistency whether you believe in the consistency or you don't this is just a this is just a software this is how it works Bob doesn't believe in consistency so he's not consistent with the self that he had 60 years ago thank God a violent crazy alcoholic you , but certain patterns of personality are still held I mean he is still still very wise very smart very intellectual and very doubting pattern just just like just like you know like cats and dogs have personalities but yeah it's just watching it with the curiosity about if that's not me and if that's not me what is that gonna do when two people fight , or what is that gonna do?

what is the next going to solve? you know all those questions from the meist list and its again the me trying to hang on you know to the story yeah you know and and and the solutions and the this and that and that its nature to solve problems and you know people go, what about blah blah blah and that's its nature then means thats its nature to solve problems and... and figure it out you know but yeah who's asking the question the funny thing is we're actually going with the flow anyway whether we realize it or not so we're going even the seeming resistance it's part of the flow yeah but we can step out of if you like or it can be seen this so-called personalized entity this personalized self self can be seen for what it actually is and then it can be freedom that is actually experienced from that Bob used to talk a lot about effortless living you know and I'd you know it's effortless you know and it and it's only I don't know it's just it really is effortless because there's no me doing anything yeah there's never was never will be and so there's a definite traveling larger in it and a utilization of that energy that you are you know because there's no nothing blocking it anymore you know it's like so many stories and so many scenarios and so many so much crap taking up so much energy identify you know identify with the me and so it you know you really understand that flow you really understand that flow because there's nothing blocking it you know it doesn't come up it doesn't come up against any walls yeah I used to you know for whatever environment I found myself in I was always slightly different always you know it's not it's gonna be subtle sometimes gonna be quite a big difference I'm talking about my persona how I carried myself and how I handled myself and that number one that seemed like a lot of hard work number two I had no idea who I was not really you know I was just trying to be whatever what I thought everybody else wanted me to be yeah always that's kind of pretty much been my whole life if I look at it now it doesn't matter who I'm with whether I'm with my son whether I'm with Jane Tess Bob cat my mum it doesn't matter they get the same person which and that's the the freedom that gets talked about here I totally agree at the end of the day at the risk of being lynched for this I'm gonna say it and I'll get lynched by some of the evaded police out there but anyway that's okay I'm the best me I've ever been yeah it's so it's just free just so natural everything just happens naturally and and net you know like from here when I consider what used to be going on here actually makes no sense why like that's right I was we're all perfect we're all absolutely perfect as we are but you know why don't we say that because we believe this that dictates now I feel about myself you know when that drop and everybody else that drops it's it's it's beautiful I can't even put it into words but it's it's freeing you do just kind of sit back and lay back in in life and just you just moved by life yeah responding and that the resistance drops absolutely oh yeah I've nothing nah not not a scary cover not a scary cover yeah that's just how I patent or this seemed to have patterned and float and I did a public speaking thing a couple of weeks ago and this lady said oh it's alright to you you've always been you know very confident and articulate and I said I said actually actually I haven't always been very confident and articulate actually I haven't always been very confident and articulate and I said I said this is what's happening now you know I don't think you would have wanted to hear me talk 35 years ago and I thanked her for her comment as I left I think she was like oh you know it was interesting best version of me I would I would probably name few people who thinks that I'm the worst version of me because I'm not people-pleasing anymore and I'm fearless I don't care that they may not like it and I stand up for myself I used to stand up for everyone else but not for myself so yes so things things do change how would they change if you didn't see through illusion I don't know I don't know but the truth is that the change is well people may believe them the worst version of me is that they are bullies or they're really dangerous people so that's just blurring it out with people think it's not right I know that's not the point I'm not going to be a racist but I'm gonna be a right-wing wish I'm going to be like oh you know I'm a right-wing person and there's just this this culture and there's this culture of like oh you're right you shouldn't be a right-wing person well I'm gonna be a right-wing person at this point but here I am and I'm going to be a bad man and I'm going to be a bad person now and then I'm just like oh I'm so sorry I'm sorry I'm sorry oh I'm sorry I'm sorry you're like oh I'm sorry you're not a bad member of the public The belief in the programming, I suppose, is part of that waking dream you talk of, that you're asleep.

So I know that in a few of the conversations we've had in the past where I've been so hijacked and believed that I've got to sort it out somehow in there and find it in there, there's been a real disconnect from the reality that's actually right, that I'm a part, that that's there. And so when those moments of waking up have come and then I can hear the birds singing and I'm present, it just seems to be more of that, less hijacked. It's so normal. Travelling lighter. Travelling lighter. It's so normal. It's so, it's real, it's driving, it's light, and it's so normal, it's always been here.

It's like you said, you're a bird singer. There it is. People say we've got to acquire something or get something, and that's what we're geared to do. But it's discarding all the shit. Yeah, it's a knowing who you're not. And knowing what's not just what is. I think it's just what happens. Yeah, you're learning who you're not, and you're learning that you don't have to live in the as-if world, which is all bound by time. You're learning what you're not, and you're learning that you're in the as-is world. And a part of that as-is world is hearing, tasting, touching, smelling. That's happening right here, right now.

And so the car going past, everything, you're attentive to what is. You're not in the story about what is not, you're in what is. And the way the mind is used also increases. Yeah. It increases. I mean, of course, we have some intelligence, we have some IQ, we have some calculating capacity and stuff like this. And this one, one could say, okay, you use your thinking less, so maybe the organ that is not being used is going to disappear. Quite the contrary. Now the whole energy, the whole intelligence is available for problem solving, from seeing things clearly. Like if 90% of my thinking was obsessing about myself, what people think of me, what am I going to wear tomorrow, what am I going to do in 10 years or 20 years, or what that guy is saying, why would he, you know.

And all about me, that's what a waste of space. That capacity of imagining, because of course, when I'm thinking about myself all the time, I'm also visualizing it, I'm imagining it, I'm creating the imaginary sceneries about future, about all possible black scenarios. A lot of energy goes to the drain. Now this energy is available. So now, I wasn't a speaker either. I was too shy to open my mouth and I wasn't to articulate either. But right now speaking is easy because I'm not really teaching anything. I'm not saying anybody else's wisdom that I would have to memorize and restructure and convey. I'm basically sharing experience.

So what would stand in the way? My self-consciousness or how do I look when I wrinkle? Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. I mean, if that's not me, it doesn't really matter. And it doesn't mean that I'm not going to be keeping that clean or it's just effortless living, really. That's right. The true meaning of effortless living. So the thinking capacity, the problem solving capacity, even the planning capacity, when the planning is required, the planning happens. But I used to obsess about future all the time and obsessed to the point of madness. Right. Right. I would say I would meet I would miss out on life all the time because I was just next step in the future Even traveling the world because that was my job.

I used to travel a lot I was always in the next port in the next situation planning the next adventure I remember my ex-husband that was one of the reason he is ex-husband We were coming back from Canary Islands from the diving vacations. I say wasn't it wonderful. When are we going again? He says you're not even home yet. You didn't even come back You already want to go to the next one go somewhere else Like I was constantly away from this present moment and what a waste the life is happening here for last three years I haven't been traveling at all and there is no sense of loss.

I am NOT devastated I Dropped off the career of which paid me amazing money for doing what I loved and it's not there anymore And it's totally no one who would be victimized about it Quite the contrary that's the best chapter of my life so far I mean, it's not my life But there's a life going on and there is a book of life that could actually structure the chapters This one is this is amazing and it's getting better and better sitting in one place sitting put being obsessively adventurous travel traveler Unbelievable so things change That whole what has a rule a man's a fool When it's hot he wants it's cool When it's cool, he wants it hot Always wanting what is not never wanting what he's got as a rule a man's a fool You could say the mind is full also don't trust your mind you'll be right Probably going to bring down another one to get shot women are not fool you know As you are little woman let the world come to you Mary rang me at work and Using the say she said to me.

I've got something I gotta tell you I was busy I said I'll move the way so that I got that your problem for For one day in stress is it? Was it that I'm afraid of? Losing my identity that's it. Yeah, then I'm afraid of losing my identity and that's getting in the way of achieving you know my goals So how would you explain that? Take the money Sponsor my wife So I made on me Instead of taking the small Miserable little identity of Tony become the total Expand yourself into that Because you are that anyway have a courage to be as nothing he said that I says be nothing and see the world as it is Well, I don't see myself as holding on to this identity Why?

because I had my card the mechanic and I've got it back and I can find my sunglasses the prescription glasses So I rang him and I said Tony. I come from my classes someone's taking out of the car This is a mechanic because I know I got I got a ring and tell him I need my glasses. So they're expensive So he goes, okay, so he ran and I went shopping You must have read the night shop. I was looking looking and the cover is black and his my seats are black Come, you know with any glasses. I wouldn't say, you know, come and fly today and see I found them So I quickly gave him a call.

I listen call the mechanic tell him all right. I found the glasses, you know, sorry Oh I'm not gonna do that. Oh No, I just really stopped what I'm saying. You're talking about. You're just hungry You know, you lost it I said, okay, don't worry about it. And he was down on, I thought, oh, I'm not gonna get in touch with this. Boom, hang up on him. Come on. I said, ring him up and tell him, Barry, that we're finished the class. Oh, no, no, no, I'm gonna give a couple of dice and then I'll say something and then whatever. I would not. I wasn't gonna do it.

So I thought, oh, he's such a strong stocking, Ash. So I left him a couple of dice. Time to do being Barry. No, no, no, no, no, I'm giving him a couple of dice. What do you mean? I said, what's wrong if you just say my wife found them? He said, no big deal. No, no, no, no, no, no, no. So I got the phone. I rang up and said, Barry, I'm sorry. I said, I found the glasses. I didn't see them, blah, blah, blah. I go, oh, that's what I'm glad, Mary. Thank you. I said, sorry for that. He go, no, no, no problem.

I go, what's the matter? I said, it's your ego. I said, you're still hanging on to that me. You feel bad even saying I found something. Oh, no, no, no, I can't do that. Oh, no, you embarrassed me. But then something else come up and the same thing happened. And I thought, oh, I'm gonna break your tongue and I say nothing this time. But that morning I was in the shower and I thought I've gotta ring him because before I forget, and that's what come up. And I said, Tim, you're really hanging on to your identity badly. You have to get out of that. And he's been going on that.

That's good to know, isn't it? It's good to know because he can't get rid of that. He can only recognize it and it will drop off or not. But do you know what it is too? Because intellectually he understands it to a certain extent. Because he understands intellectually, he thinks he's got the pack. Yeah. But he hasn't. Oh. I know that. I love this public shaming. It's really, I thrive on it. Let's put him in the middle. You know, Tass, I've had times where, I mean, depending on his support, I'll tell you this. I've had times where I've had to go through a lot of things.

And he hasn't. He's been cruel in one way. But you know what? Later on, I thanked him because if he hadn't been like that with me, I wouldn't have stepped out of it. Sometimes you've got to be cruel to be kind. Well, I've got some things to say I don't think so. I'm going to leave the room. I better close it down before he gets in my window. I'll pay you. Because he's too good. He's too good. He's too good. He's too good. He's too good. He's too good. He's too good. He's too good. He's too good. He's too good. He's too good. They sure know what they're doing.

We got this! We got this! You just don't get it. You know what I mean. It's about there. A little bit of a splash. Yeah, let's make it love. Let's make it love. Let's make it love.