Sailor Bob - nonduality - WHO WANTS TO KNOW? 17 Feb 2019

So where can you start with your names? I'm Katarina. Name? Cole. Mal. Tony. Chris. Justin. Terry. Tony. You're all old hands in the game. You know what it's all about. Want us to go through it again? Sure. Everybody wants to get off the hook. It's good to hear you over and over again. That's what we're here for. Get off the hook. I'm not talking to anybody. I'm not talking to any mind. I'm not talking to that body-mind identity that you maybe you still believe yourself to be, but if you've been here a few times you should start to recognise or realise you are not that separate entity, that individual.

Don't talk about your books either. You're not talking about any hooks either. No. Straighten out your hooks and we're going to fix that. As Nisargadatta tells us, hooks and rings. Straighten out your hooks. Where are they going to lodge? Everything falls away. What they call non-duality, and it seems to be the great thing these days is non-duality, going around, what's non-duality? It's not. It implies that there's, they point it out by saying it's one without a second, not two. So, it's what they're simply saying, that everything is that one, and there can't be anything other than one. If there's anything other than one, it's gone into, moved out of non-duality into the many.

So it's one essence, patterning, shaping, forming, and expressing is everything. A lot of, a lot of the religions say that God, call it God, and they'll all, basically at the start, they'll all say that God is one, there's only God. But then, the problem is they put different labels on this God. It can be Krishna, Brahma, Christ, somebody else, this one or that one. In Hinduism they have a, we used to chant a mantra of the thousand names of Vishu. It had a thousand different names. Which one would be right? Muslims say there's no God but God, Allah is his name. They put a label on that too.

We call it Father, Son, and Holy Ghost. Divided into the three. That there is only that one essence. That's patterning, shaping, and forming, this manifestation. And have a look at that, where's that appearing? Can you postulate or think of anything, could be outside of space? If you could postulate or think of one, what's it in? When you say this is outside of space, what's it in then? You must realise that nothing can happen outside of that emptiness. And the Buddha's called it the cognising emptiness. Not that we are cognising the emptiness, that's the way we take it. I used to think it this, that I am cognising the emptiness.

But it is the emptiness itself that has that capacity of cognising or knowing. And he made the statement then that emptiness is formless. It's in this knowingness that the form starts to appear, or pattern, shapes and forms appear. And he turned it around and said the form can be nothing other than emptiness. Pointing out that we haven't moved out of it, nothing's moved away from it. It's all that emptiness appearing as other. And what's appearance? Appearance is a phenomenal expression or understanding or manifestation. And if the emptiness is form and the form is formless, then it's not formless. It's not just emptiness. It must be that emptiness itself that is cognising it.

It's appearing in it. So that emptiness or no-thingness is seemingly suffused with that effulgent or light or intelligence in which pattern, shapes and forms there's a subtle vibration in it. A seemingly somewhat of a throb or a movement that forms all this manifestation. And they call it the manifestation. The definition of phenomena is that which appears to be. Although it seems solid, substantial and real, it's appearance only, appearing only, happening, shaping and forming. What's happened to that? We've got this idea we are these separate entities, these individuals, these persons. But they tell you, a lot of the scriptures will tell you, the person is not the reality.

Where did the word person come from? Where did that word person come from? It comes from persona, the mask. I think it is in Latin. So we've taken on this idea of person and made it this label it on this body-mind as a separate entity. It's not recognising it's the conceptual image or mask we've got about ourselves. A mask of concepts. And we take that to be real. And we take that to be real. And we seemingly function from that point of view and get locked in all the psychological problems, the fear and anguish and all the rest of it, that are with us most of the time.

Instead of being in the natural state. What's the natural state mean? As in nature. Now does nature know anything about a god? Or a separate entity? At all? Have a look out there. And see. The earth rolling around the sun, seasons coming and going, tides coming in and out, it's all functioning naturally, inevitably. And in that manifestation there can be tsunamis, droughts, ice ages, all sorts of things. Volcanoes exploding and imploding. All sorts of things going on in it. But unless we're putting these labels on and taking them to be separate and apart from it, as nature itself has never ever been corrupted or contaminated by it.

We think we're going to fix nature? Hey, how you doing? But, where did this idea of a person come about from? Well, as I say, I'm not talking to anybody. I'm not talking to any mind, that's where I started off. I'm talking to that I am, that I am. What's that I am? Isn't it the sense of presence? The knowing that you are? How could you say you were present or aware or knowing right now? You've got to say I am. That's the primary thought. A vibration. A sound. It's translated as the thought I am. And you can't do much with I am on its own.

What can you do with it? You've got to put words or labels on them. I'm Bob. I'm an Australian. I'm this, I'm that. I'm the other. I'm unhappy, I'm sad, I'm fearful, I'm miserable. All these words are added onto it to give it some substance. I am of itself is just a sound. It's got no substance or any independent nature whatsoever. So we put this, we learn other words. And that's what you need to understand. That every word you've ever spoken or ever liked to speak has been learnt. It's been acquired along the way. Go back as far as you're able to remember. Can you remember your birth?

You can't remember your birth because you had no words at that stage. You can't remember the growing in the womb. And you don't remember anything about your life until you're about two, two and a half years old when the capacity of reason developed. Developed in that pattern. And that's a capacity, a very useful capacity. But it's very self-destructive also because it's a vibration like that. It's a vibration. It's a sound. Like every movement is a vibration. And it vibrates in opposites. It's this, that and the other one time and then something else the next. Always in the opposites. And that's, have a look at this way you think.

Are you this body-mind entity that we believe ourselves? Are you the body? Innately you know you're not the body. You say, my body. Don't you say my house, my car, my coat. You know you're not the house, the car or the coat. Maybe when you look at it you're not the body either. We're taking ourselves to be this body. Are you this mind? Again, my mind. Well have a look, investigate. What's this body made up of? And you'll realise this body's made up of elements. Air, earth, fire, water, space. Just like the elements around you in space. And you'll realise that everything, all these elements can be broken down into pieces.

You can put it under a microscope and you'll see the seemingly solidity and the substance in it will fall away into the emptiness into the nothingness. So, have a look at your body again and see if it's nothing but these elements. Take the elements out of the body. See if you can separate yourself from those elements. Can you separate yourself from the air? There's a road scholar who'd say that. If you stopped breathing, how long would you last? Body's 80% water. If you stopped drinking, when you're thirsty, stop drinking water. See how long you'd last then without that water. The body temperature, the fire. You'd get hypothermia and die without that element.

Get out of space. Can you get out of space? I've been to the moon and so-called moon and back and I've been floating around in space and planes and things like that. Ever got away from it? Or out of it? So you can't be separate from that either. So you can break it all down into elements. And those elements can be broken down into subatomic particles into pure energy. Now you're the mind. Again, you use that term, my mind. We use that. Commonly everybody thinks we are this mind. Well, show me your mind. Anyone can say, this is mind. Is there something in there you can grab or grasp?

Something solid and substantial you can say, this is mind? Well, you realise there's nothing there that you can call mind apart from thoughts, feelings and emotions. All these things take place in this thing called mind. Words, thoughts, feelings and emotions. So are you a word? We've got labels on ourselves. I'm Bob, the Australian, all sorts of words. And what words did you have when you were born? You didn't have any words at birth. You didn't have any words to be about two, two and a half. So you can't very well be the word, can you? And you had a couple of years of life and nine months in the womb before you learnt any words.

So you were getting around all right before that little child was going on and realised that every word you've ever spoke or ever likely to speak has been learnt or picked up along the way. And you might even be learning new words to this day. You can look in your dictionary and grasp a word that you don't know what it is, the meaning of it. And you're forgetting a lot of words because I am anyway. I'm forgetting a lot of words. But take a word, if you think of a word. Is the word the thing? See if the word is the thing. Is the word water?

Water. Can you drink it? Can you drink that word? Can you swim in the word? Can you drown in it? You can't. So the word water can't be water. The word fire, is it fire? Can you burn your mouth with a word? Can you cook with it? Can you eat yourself? So again, when you say my body, the word, those words. But we've learnt words, and words can be very useful. But investigate the word also. And see how the word functions. Thinking, what we call thinking, expresses as words. Concepts, ideas. Concepts are just mental constructs also. Words are just conceptual images. So, we learn these words, we start to learn words from our parents, and see how it functions in you, in that body.

Watch a word. Thinking, when Shakespeare tells you there's nothing either good or bad, but thinking makes it so, thinking is made up of words, concepts. Watch your thinking, see how it's functioning. See if it functions any other way than dualistically. In the interrelated pairs of opposites. If you're thinking in the past, what are you relating to? There must be a future. Related to say there's a past. If it's pleasant, it must to relate it to something or name it as something different, it must be painful. The opposite. Happy, sad. Loving, hating. Good, bad. Pleasant, painful. That's how the thinking is vibrating all the time. The boundary we put upon are these words.

And day, night, winter, summer. Silence, sound, movement, stillness. Watch your thinking and think any other way and know interrelated opposites all the time. So what have we got? We've got this word I or me, which is the primary thought, the primary movement. Come from the basic primal sound, Aum. I am. Translated. So a word is nothing but sound. Sound's a vibration. A vibration's a movement of energy. And we've put the meaning into these words and take the word to be real. Can't do much with this I or me when we learn words. So we learn other words beside that. When the parents tell us, I'm a Bob, you're Australian, you're a good fella, or this, that and the other.

Don't do this or do that. And we take on these words. And naturally, we don't question them. We continue to learn more words without questioning and looking to see what they are. So you can't do much with I or me, so what do we do? Add on to these words. What they told me, I'm Bob, so I become Bob. I'm Bob, the Australian. The good fella, or not so good, or I've got low self-esteem, I'm fearful, or I'm unhappy, or I've got no compassion, or I'm hateful. All these different words come up, which I add on to that I thought because you can't do anything at all with I.

But to give it some substance, some independent nature, or some seeming solidity, we add these other concepts on it. And form a mental picture, or a conceptual image of what we believe ourselves to be. That's all it is, a conceptual image. But it's reinforced day in, day out, not only by ourselves, but our parents are reinforced for us in the first place. Then our schools, the society, and nation. Purely and simply because they haven't questioned it either. They go along with what they've been told to pick up. And we've got this conceptual image. As me, Bob, the Australian, the good fella, not so good. And not only do I get this conceptual image about myself, but then I put it onto the others too.

Get a conceptual image, a concept about them, a conceptual image of what I think they are, or how they are, and all of it. Conceptual image about everything in this manifestation. And it's not pointing to the reality of the thing, it's pointing to the image. Nothing can trouble you except your own imagination. Imaging in. And that's what we're talking about, making mental image. Imaging in means imagine. Break it down. Imagining all these seeming solidities and substance to vibrating patterns of energy, which you can't really see. Just a ripple or a throb or a spontaneous subtle movement. Seemingly now solid and substantial. And that's the freedom to this conceptual image we've got about ourselves.

And I like it if it's something that appears good. Or I don't like it. I'm fearful about it. I'm anxious about it. Or I'm unhappy about it. I'm depressed about it. All my psychological suffering comes about from that relativity. Relativity is relationship. And relativity or relationship is duality. Me and the other. We have problems about this conceptual idea of the dualistic pattern shaping and forming of everything. Everything is relative to that. And either we like it or we don't like it. We're unhappy about it or sad about it or repressed or guilty or jealous or envious because we're relating it to this image that doesn't fit.

Something comes up and I like it. How do you know? Well I've had this feeling and sensation before it's good. And we want the good all the time. We don't want it to go in the bad. Not realizing no matter how much you like it or love it it's going to change. It's a vibration the same as everything else. All this manifestation is a dualistic appearance. But the appearance is not the actuality of it. Phenomenal manifestation. I like it. We don't want it to go. What do we do in trying to keep it there? We resist it. There's a subtle resistance going on. We're going to hang on to this all the time.

Not realizing it's transient. The whole manifestation is transient. It's constantly changing. This body you walked into a room with you might think it's the same body. Unless you question it and had a look. Then you realize the body is changing with every breath you take. There are thousands of cells dying in it right now. And being replaced. And you only got to relate it back to some past memory investigation. What was your body like 10 years ago? Or last week? Or last year? And the things that were going on. Everything else has changed. It's constantly changing. Even as these words I'm saying right now are changing exactly all the time.

Nothing static or fixated about anything. That's why we can't keep up with life. Because we've got this dead image that when something comes up it's related to this dead image. And that dead image cannot keep up with the living. The living is constantly changing. Like a bucket of water out of the river. Put a bucket of water out of the river and put it on the bank. What happens to it? It's stagnant. It's no longer moving. It's dead. What's happened to the river? The river hasn't stopped running. It's contingently flowing and changing. Until it finds its way back to the ocean again and forms back into the ocean.

Why would you call it a river? If it was the ocean. We break things down and you can break that river down to creek, river, gutter all sorts of different things down and put different labels on it. The same stream of water that's flowing. Get a drop of water the sun evaporates water, forms a cloud and now it's a cloud. The cloud condenses, comes down as rain or forms ice and snow and it becomes solid. It melts again and falls back into water. Transient, changing, coming about. But the essence of it is always the same. It's never changed its true nature. Look at this body-mind.

Something comes up you don't like. You don't like it. What do you do? You want to get rid of it so you resist it again. You see that there's constant resistance, conflict and uneasiness or anxiousness or fear going on all the time. Very seldom there are moments of happiness, spontaneous joy or sense of well-being come up and you like them, you want more of them or love or compassion whatever labels you like to put on them they are right. How long do they last? They don't last very long at all. But the thoughts we have when you get down on somebody you don't like them or you resist them hang on to those for weeks years sometimes.

Beat ourselves up with the word the conceptual image. That's your psychological suffering. And we say that's not necessary. Not necessary. Learn, realise there's all these constant changes in nature appearances, seemingly sound but there's nobody out there that clings onto them and resists them and keeps them there. They're free to move on and they do move on and change. When you start recognising this stuff and learn to leave everything as it is let it be as it is. It'll change also. It's only by fixating on it, keeping it there that it hangs around. So memory can be very useful but the energy of belief goes into it and hanging onto it let it do its job what it's necessary to do at the moment.

Let all the things that come up do their job as they do in nature. I've said this before there's a storm going on out there now leave it be as it is. It'll come down as rain or snow what happens? There might be a seed in the earth waiting for that rain to come down. That seed is able to do its job then to sprout. Grow into trees, flowers, fruit or whatever of itself. Life will come from that. So everything is in this manifestation in this appearance. Patterning, shaping, forming has a place. You don't have to do away with it or say you can't do away with it but you can recognise the essence of it all and realise that basic essence which we've called spirit.

And we put this label spirit on gods, angels and all sorts of different things but spirit opposite of spirit is matter. Spirit is a subtle expression and all that matter is is condensed or solidified spirit. So still spirit seemingly solidified into something substantial and solid as matter. So we've got to go deep, we've got to be with the spiritual so called spiritual. Put all sorts of concepts and images on that dreamlike appearances create all sorts of reincarnations, next lives and all sorts of gods, angels, devils and everything else. All mental creations or mental images instead of being that spirit or life essence. Life essence went to all forms of life no matter what it is.

Appear, play around and disappear back into it. Energy, I call it for a lot of a better term, but it's not even that. Energy is light. That's another term for light. You use that term, the natural effulgence of being. Don't you? Let your eye be single and your body shall be full of light. Are you trying to say that? In other words, seeing that one essence that you are and that body will be full of energy. Christ said I am the light of the world. He wasn't talking about himself, he was talking about that sense of presence that I am-ness in which the energy appears and the world appears in that energy, that light.

So you are the light in which the world are too. But in that light, in that body or energy in that body enabling you to see, hear, taste, touch and smell what would you be seeing of the world if that wasn't there? Nothing whatsoever. So you've got to look at this eye, I mean see how solid this conceptual image or entity is. Break it down and have a look at it. You're seeing right now and you're hearing right now. That's a fact, you can't negate that. The seeing and hearing and then bring back it down and say I see, I'm seeing. I'm hearing, I'm tasting, I'm touching, I'm smelling.

But ask yourself this. So what forms the conceptual image and we've registered that conceptual image is resisting and resistance is conflict, conflict is disease. Have a look and see if that ego that's all the ego is, the conceptual image based on past events, experiences, conditioning, identity. Have a look and see if that ego is the cause of all your problems. All your scriptures and that will tell you that ego is the problem. Got to be rid of this ego. Kill it, stamp on it, put it under the carpet, do whatever you can with it. But don't you realise that that's the ego trying to get rid of the ego.

It doesn't happen. But see that the ego as such never existed in the first place. What ego did you have before you learnt any words? Look at the little child, he hasn't learnt any words. Has he got any idea of an ego or anything? He's not naming himself or labelling himself or saying this, he's just functioning naturally and effortlessly. The being, knowing and loving to be. The Satya, the Nanda. The Nama, Aruba haven't started to form in him. The name and form, because he hasn't got any words. So you're seeing right now, something comes up and you like it, how do you know? You've had it before, you don't want to get rid of it, I've gone through this I think haven't I?

So you resist it. So everybody is seeing, everybody is hearing, we'll get back to that. That's a fact. Ask yourself this, does my eye tell me I see? My eye is not saying look at this Bob, look at that, that's good or that's bad. The eye cannot say anything at all. It's an organ, an instrument that hasn't got the capacity of speaking or saying or thinking. But it's translated by the thought I see. It's that thought again thinking in words, labels, can translate it into the thought I see. It's learnt these words I and believes now that this eye can see. But does it? My eye is not telling me I see, but the seeing is happening.

It's translated by the thought I see. So it's this thought I've learnt that's translating happenings that are occurring in this body mind. I see. But it's not a pure seeing. What have we added onto this seeing? Me, Bob, the Australian, the good fellow and all that goes with it, the conceptual image I've got of myself now thinks it has the capacity of seeing. A conceptual image made up of concepts which I meant in the words, thinks it can see. Same with the hearing. The ear doesn't say listen to this, listen to that, that's yours. It's happening through the ear and translated by the thought. I hear.

Again, not a pure thought now, hearing. Because what we've added to this thought is me, Bob, the conceptual image I have about myself thinks it can see. Thinks it can hear. Anybody unaware right now? You realise no, I'm not unaware. So if you're not unaware, mustn't you be aware? And people tell you you've got to look for this awareness or this consciousness. You've got to find it and trap it and isolate it and see that that's what you are. But it's nothing you can grasp, it's just a concept. So the ear's not telling you I hear. The instrument through which it's happening, the eye's not telling you I see.

But ask yourself this. Can that thought, I see, which is translated in the saying, can the translating translation of that saying, I see, can that thought see? The thought can't see at all. Close your eyes and look around the room and see what you can actually see. Prove these things to yourself. Then nobody will have to tell you. Once you look at these things and investigate and recognise that essence that you truly are which is not this egoic entity we've taken ourselves to be. So the thought I see can't see. The thought I am aware. You're not unaware right now, so the thought I am awareness is not your awareness.

That's a translation of it. By a dead image. The thought I choose. We think we choose our thoughts. What's your next thought going to be? Did you choose it? Can't remember. So you look and investigate, you see this thought up-ended. It can't do anything. It can't see, can't hear, can't be aware, can't choose, can't do anything at all. It's a fiction. In recognising that, recognise it and see. See if you disappear then. See if you fall away. See if it's the end of you. If I let go and don't follow my thoughts out, it'll be the end of me. But if you never thought, you as an entity never thought a thought in the first place, and thoughts have come up, don't you think they've been acquired and can be very useful, but if not understanding them and not recognising them they're self-destructive.

And that's the problem. Non-cognising. We're not recognising them. Seemingly lose sight of it. We think it's gone. But it needs to be looked at again and re-cognised. That's recognition. It's re-cognising. Cognising it again. And remember it's the cognising emptiness. That everything is flattening, shaking, forming. The cognising is another term for cognising is knowing. Anybody who's not knowing right now. You realise, no, you can't say I don't, you can say I don't know. But how would you be able to say that if the knowing in itself wasn't there? So, I don't know is not it. That's just a translation of it, like all words are just a translation.

But the basis is being, or existing. Consciousness, or awareness. And happy to be. Sat yidda nanda as they tell you in the scriptures. And the other two factors, nama rupa, the name and form, the egoic, are fiction. Just conceptual images or patterns that have no substance or any independent nature. But we put the energy of belief into it and we beat the hell out of ourselves with a word. A word. Oh, I'm fearful. Or I'm anxious. I've got no compassion. People don't like me. Beat ourselves up with a word, which is not the thing. You consider that necessary, go ahead, keep doing it. I found it's not necessary here.

No words will still be used. Why not? Why not put labels and things? It helps you to identify something much better when you put the label on. But you know the thing, the seeming thing you're identifying with is not what it appears to be. It's just another pattern, shape and form. It still can't separate that intelligence energy that formed it, if you like to use that term and call it that. Can't separate that from it. So the total manifestation is functioning, is spontaneous, natural, and effortlessly. Effortless. Going along effortlessly. Just as effortlessly as that breath you just took. There's a heartbeat that's going on in your body.

The food's being digested. Hair and fingernails are growing. Cells being replaced. Earth going around the sun. Seasons coming and going. Tides coming in. Planets forming. Galaxies forming and imploding and exploding. Constantly transient. Constantly changing. Nothing static about anything. Shiva Shakti they call it. Shiva the static aspect. Shakti the female aspect they depict it as. Dancers in the world appears. And they call it the dance of Shiva. And isn't dancing a happy event? Or a joyous event? So dance in the joyousness of life. Not in the depressing, the bondage and state of the separate individual me. That'll be enough from this little pattern. But you've all got the same intelligence energy.

And surely some of you have picked up something after all this time. If you have, tell us about it. If there's something you've got doubts about, question them and somebody will put it in a different way where it can be recognized and registered. Hallelujah. That's what it's all about. There's no body or no person in this room who is not that. But there might be a lot of so-called persons or people or individuals who believe they are something other. They are this separate entity, this individual, that person. And so question or doubt or argue about it, do it. But anyway, get into it. You can repeat a mantra forever.

But a good thing about a mantra is to keep your mind one-pointed to a certain extent if you repeat nothing but that mantra. But of itself, it's not going to get anywhere because what you've got to do when it is one-pointed, try and recognize in that that the basic essence of livingness is going on. I did mantra for years. I can't say it didn't help. And I can't say it did. But it took me beyond the mantra to something else. And that took me to something else until I heard what Nisargadatta was saying and saw clearly what he was saying. And that was the end of the search.

There was nothing to seek anymore. The mantra and meditation and all those things, I've been through a lot. I can't say they didn't help. But in this respect, following them too I realized there was no future in it. But the next step came up then, what to do. And from the time before I even looked at this stuff it took me through that pattern where I got into the deepest shit in the world that made me turn around and look a bit further. And I didn't want to do that, but I did. I did do it. And then followed it on from there. So whatever you do, whatever you like to be, it probably might be what you need to do.

It comes a certain time, well if we come here, this is a bit more toward the directness of it than what it is outside and all the sacks and things with the meditating and thinking about it. They're doing their job for a lot of people. I think the important thing to recognize when that happens, because life can move you to do certain practice. And if life does it, who is there to resist life? There are people who absolutely love to sit in quiet or love to do meditation or any sort of sit in the heart. And to recognize that you are not the doer of it.

That it is just that movement, that idea or feeling or thought appears in the mind. And that idea or feeling puts you in the position, brings up the mantra or practice or anything. And it all happens. It is all just the same way as the life moves the birds to sing its song. So then, the idea, because what's the danger about the practices is that it may, doesn't have to, but it may reinforce the idea of practitioner. I am now practicing to become someone in future. Because as I am right now, I'm no good. So I have to still the mind, do all sorts of different things, because then I will be eligible and I will deserve to become something else.

Well, the truth is we already are that. The only idea blocks us from it. The idea that I'm not is the only belief. So it's actually to recognize the belief that this is the so-called identification. It stands in the way of recognizing that the darkness of it is the only thing. But at the same time, if the life moves me to sing or to cook or to sit or to do anything else, I'm not doing it. And in that case, the doer is not being reinforced. So there is nothing wrong in anything if the doer is not reinforced. And even if it is, there is nothing wrong.

But it's just not necessary. And you realize that behind every thought, feeling and emotion, every activity is that stillness and silence is there. Not noticed. Because of the chatter that was going on in the head, it was never noticed. That's why probably when doing some of these things, in the keeping it one-pointed or seeing the one-pointedness of it, see what's beyond, prior to the mind, or thought, or feeling. And you are that basic screen in which all these thoughts, feelings, emotions appear on. Realize that. And you can't separate them. Try and cut space. Cast a handful of space. Try and find a center to where it is to come for us to.

I used to sit down doing meditation to another teacher. And one day I just realized that I just am. And at that time I had a couple of kids running around. And I just responded to them. And not long after that I came to see Bob. And Bob gave me a copy of I Am That. And it was pointed out in that book and also coming to talk to Bob and coming to satsang with Bob that I'm not what I think I am. And that everything appears upon as Bob said, that screen. And I heard a cute story the other day. It's about a little lion cub that got lost in a herd of sheep.

And it grew up thinking it was a sheep. And it tried to bar. And it tried to fit in with the sheep and do everything the sheep do. And he wasn't a very good barrer. He didn't bar very well. But he gave it his best shot. And you know. And the sheep were quite sweet to him. And you know. And then one day this lion came and was chasing the sheep. And he saw that another lion was running with the sheep. And he just thought that's weird. You know. So he got this little lion and he took him down to the pond. And he showed him the image of the big lion.

You know. Himself. And the image of the little lion. And all of a sudden the lion just roared. The little lion just roared. So it was a recognition of who he really was. I just thought that was such a good pointer. Beautiful. And that's sort of what happened. You know. When Bob pointed me to who I really was. Um. Yeah. It was just. There's no doer. There's no one to do anything. You know. And um. That doesn't mean to say that things. You know. That certain times there'll be a there'll be a sitting and there'll be a quiet time. Or it doesn't mean to say that the mind that appears upon that presence isn't.

Presence isn't utilized. It's like you're an action figure and you're spontaneously watching the actions that are responded to. But there's no responder. I'm asking from someone who is watching with us and he is asking Oshiyarmo. Yeah. That's a question for Bob. You aren't a person. Then how do you see in the same way you are this cognizing emptiness? If you know you're not the body. You did the investigation and you're not the body. You're not the mind. You're not whatever. How you jump from what you are not to what you are to land at cognizing emptiness? Well you always were the cognizing emptiness. And not jumping from what you're not to what you're not.

It's just discarding what you are not. The same when he covered it over. You've always been that. In that life. Can you, you know, can you negate your beingness? Yeah. Everyone in this room knows that they are. Yeah I guess the cognizing. Just discarding the conceptual image that you believe yourself to be. The cognizing emptiness may be confusing. Yeah the thing is we cannot actually know who we are. The label awareness, the label cognizing emptiness, the label love or God or being. They're all labels. To actually figure out who we are we will have to vacate ourselves and then we wouldn't be who we are but we would be observers.

So eventually we only the one thing that we can know is that we are. But what we are, who we are is totally impossible to ever find out. And the questioner who asks who am I? The answer to the question who am I is the dissolution of the questioner. It's not wanting to know anymore. It's not caring to find out. To define or label myself. So ultimate answer is I am. Not who I am. Not what I am. Not I am emptiness or I am cognizing or I am self or I am awareness. No those all are labels and all as Bob said in the beginning the word is not the thing.

You're not cognizing emptiness or awareness or love or God. You're not you don't know who you are. You will never know. You only know that you are. Stay with what you know. Just bath in that being in that sense of presence because that's the only fact. The rest is a story. So we are not the body. We are not the mind. We are not ultimately we are everything and nothing and trying to identify or label or obtain the knowledge or figure out what we are is impossible because where do I look from at what I am? I would have to be outside myself to define my labels or limits or boundaries.

I can't do that because I'm defining an object now and not the subject. So pure subjectivity is undefinable. It is experiencing right now. Not what is experiencing but the fact that it is experiencing. So because we are all being right now that's the answer. I am. Everyone is. That's it. Who, what, who cares? As Agatha says, give yourself no name and no shape. No shape, no form. Can't negate your beingness. Can't tell me what it is either. What Bob said before was we are not the person. We are not the persona which means image. We are not that person. So, um yeah and the apparent person is always claiming.

Claiming everything. You know? Naming and claiming. So, uh what's that emptiness is what it appears upon. So um you're the context, not the content. These are all just pointers. You know? These are all just pointers to show you who you're not. But what you are, as Kat so beautifully said is just, and what Bob beautifully said is you are that I am. And that again is a label. But you can't negate your own being. Before any labels you can't negate your own being. You just know that you are. What we're saying is the I can't see itself. Yes. Exactly. Yes. So the I can know that it works, that it can see.

But it can't actually test. Yes. And understanding that, what a freedom. Stop trying. Pointless. Yes. Another way Bob says the answer is not in the mind. You can't find the answer there. Stop trying. Be like the lion cub. Once he sees who he's not, he stops trying. He just knows who he is. We need to look into the light of the wheel somewhere. Everything's an opportunity to watch. Whenever you get caught up you just go, oh. Leave everything as it is. What is means unaltered, unmodified, uncorrected. Just as it is in itself. And it naturally changes. It's continually transient, constant changing. No preference, no partiality, no comparison.

Bankey told you that in the 16th century. He called it the unborn Buddha mind. That's the mind before we learnt words. He says everything is perfectly resolved in the unborn mind. And isn't that right? Nature's constantly resolving itself. Even though it can display in all seeming persons, wars, this, that and the other. Tsunamis, explosions, implosions, everything. But nature resolves itself. Been ice ages, millions and thousands of so called before in a spontaneous manner. But nature resolves itself. He says why exchange the unborn for thought? And isn't that what we do? We think we can alter it, modify it or correct it with thought. There's nothing good or bad but thinking makes us.

Thinking can be utilised but it won't be the entity you utilise in things they might believe it to be. If that wasn't the way it expresses it wouldn't happen at all. Which of you can as Christ told you, which of you by taking thought can add one cubit to your statue? Take no thought for your life, what you shall eat, what you shall drink, what you shall wear. Look at the birds in the field, they don't gather into barns or sow crops or things like that. The lilies in the field, they don't have the colours in them. Even Solomon in all his glory couldn't array himself with one of these.

And you see the beauty and wonderment of nature as it functions. And you can see the capacity of some of these things that can change colour into all that. They mightn't have the capacity of reasoning like we do but the way they turn out and live and colour them in is quite useful. And if we didn't have these forms how could you appreciate it? Who would appreciate it? And also that there is this popular question that is hated by every seeker. Who wants to know? Or who cares? It sounds like somebody has this genuine beautiful curiosity I do want to find out who I am.

Who wants to know? That sounds like a slap in the face. But this question is actually can be really, if it's put out with the compassion, it is a beautiful question because it actually brings you back to the core of where is that curiosity coming from? Who is that questioner? Who is the one who is so genuinely in love with the truth that wants to find out who I am? They told me I am cognising emptiness. Okay, how do I find out? How do I experience that? This is a beautiful stream of devotion towards the truth. This is the investigation. When I ask who wants to know I'm not slapping anyone in the face.

I'm actually encouraging have a look. Because this is really where the answers sit. Who is that one who is longing for the truth? Who is that? Perhaps you find just the longing, just the desire to find out who I am. Just that genuine stream of devotional love for the truth. Who I am. Is there anyone on the end of the feeling? It's just like seeing, like Bob was saying. Seeing divided by the seer and the sin, while there is just seeing happening. Is there anyone on one end of the longing and anyone on the other? Or is it just the movement? Just the genuine desire to find out the truth?

Who wants to know? Who is the questioner? Who is there desiring to experience the cognising emptiness? And see if there is anyone there. Because if there is anyone there it's obviously not you because you're looking at it. So who is looking? Who is looking? And now you can find out there is the movement, the desire, the longing happening in who you are. In the emptiness that is cognising it. The emptiness that is knowing about that movement. That's why we call it cognising emptiness because it's the space in which the longing or movement or desire for the truth happens. And it is known. So it is the knowing about it.

Because the desire is visible. It's kind of cognised. So now the question how am I to identify myself as cognising emptiness? I don't have to do that anymore. Because I'm the activity of awareness of the desire to find out who wants to know. And this is to be experienced. And this is to be rewarded. Because I did hear that question who cares? As a slap someone superior you don't get it. You see you ask questions. This is part of the process of the inquiry process. Part of the seeking that is really precious and really delicious. I kind of miss it at times. I can only have it right now through other people asking those questions.

Who wants to know? Who is so curious about the true nature of things? Who wants to find out this pure subjectivity? Or who wants to actually because we are so accustomed to labeling everything. I label things. I think I know what it is and I don't have to be afraid of it. So I want to know who I am too. Then maybe my fear will subside. But who wants to know? And who is the I? Now we have one who wants to know and one who wants to be known. Again the split. Like who wants to know who? It's laughable. It is. It's actually funny.

It's sweet. It's genuine. It feels so real. That is a good inquiry. That's an excellent one. Got me shaken up by that same question. Yeah. Ask yourself who am I? Ask yourself who is the questioner? Who am I? Who am I as a question? Who is the questioner? I am. I am as a questioner. So if I am as the questioner and who am I as a questioner the questioner and the questioner are one and the same thing. So they both cancel each other out. What are you left with then? Without a questioner? Stop being? Stop existing? Stop being conscious? Stop being happy to be?

You're the basic such and an another then. Without a questioner all right. Without a question or a questioner. I think it's interesting to note the nature of the mind because the nature of the mind is a very mechanical thing. As Bob was pointing out before the pairs of opposites it can only work in the pairs of opposites. Pleasure, pain, happy, sad, me, you past, future you know that's how it works and note that one of those is you. So it's a thought about yourself it's not who you are and that me is allegedly a person and it's a persona. So if you know that's only a label for you it is not who you really are and it can only live in the pairs of opposites you know that that mind is appearing upon that presence that you are you know that so it's a knowing it's not a one part of the mind trying to figure out another part of the mind once you actually see the nature of the mind it's it's interesting to watch you know and you know you're not that you know you're not the label you know and that wonderful pointer of Bob's what's wrong with right now unless you think about it well that sort of goes well with that understanding the nature of the mind because it's just full stop because that nature of that mind can't live right here right now you've got to actually have a thought about it you know it's because we're trapped inside the content of thinking and when you stop there's no content of thinking so you're still being yeah that's right you can see it's that old railway station metaphor again you know the railway station is always there but the trains keep coming and going you know I think that's a good pointer because people go oh you know I won't be able to plan anymore I go try to stop planning that's the nature of the mind it's a planning tool you know it's a mind of its own the mind has a mind of its own I love that it takes a little and then you go uh oh you've got to catch yourself there's a there's a recognition that it's taking you on the train and you go I'm getting off here I'm not going down that track I'm not going down that track I'm not going down that track we actually hope that someone's going to tell us who and what I am we're hoping that someone is going to be able to tell me who or what I am and that's why we continue to ask questions and that pointer that Kat was just referring to who wants to know is real like that's far more real than any question that we could pose far more real yeah okay there's a question that seems to be a questioner there let's focus on that rather than answering your question hoping that you're going to get some answer that's going to wake you up or have you realised who and what you are it can't be it wouldn't matter what answer one was given in relation to who you are you're not going to buy it because it's got to be your own direct experience to know you've got to see it you've got to see it so it wouldn't matter what anybody said so oh I don't know what's the difference between awareness and consciousness I mean fuck we could sit there for ages chatting about that or we could get to the real point who wants to know that question and I love your point of wake the fuck up I mean that's the one I haven't said that one for a while I like it though we might be going to keep going it's a great one rough it's like that old well Bob we'll get to everybody laughing and it's alright I think that's why when people used to go see Ramana Maharshi and then ask him a question his first answer was always silence because if you give an intellectual answer you're just going to be lost in thought more thoughts come in so silence is really the only correct answer anything that you say you're just really feeding the brain the brain is the answer the dream particularly the the seekers dream you're just feeding it because what they'll do is what we do is we grab onto different ideas and different concepts and tuck it away in our head and go yeah ok I've got that and then eventually people get to a point where they go ok I've seen all this stuff I understand I'm not the mind I'm not the body I'm not the feelings I'm not anything anything anything anything why do you think that is as long as you don't accumulate knowledge correct it's purely an intellectual understanding at that point because it all makes sense it all totally makes sense yet me still feels like I'm here where do you go from there I nearly said it didn't I very good I can hold that but really but where do you go from there where where do you go when you've exhausted the intellect you've looked at all the pointers you can see the pointers yet you still feel like you're here which is I don't know where else you expect to find yourself by the way like really so where do you go brother other than here it's just look it's just it's the drop it's the dropping away of the self identity it's not the self identity realizing something or claiming something or getting something it's not that's why we ask the question if a question gets posed who wants to know that answer yeah and yet some people who who are asking the question they don't want to hear that I know they don't want to hear who are you take it back to who am I if you're feeling a knot in the guts and you're all anxious and you're caught up in a pattern just sit down and actually look they don't want to hear that well you should because that's the one who will get you out of it but normally people don't get to that until they've exhausted the intellect until they've exhausted it all and that's why other pointers are useful yeah so there can be a almost like a an exhaustion it's like and what resonates with one person with one unique pattern of energy doesn't resonate with another so some people love stories some people just want to sit in the quiet and look for who they are some people you know walk into one of these meetings get it straight away and walk out and never come back you know some people take years some people take minutes and then they they have sex it's not the people that take the minutes or the years is it because there's no people there it's exactly right Tony correct so therefore whatever you do or whatever we do it's useless so the best inquiry is the inquiry of who am I and what am I and what Bob said in the beginning we're not the persona we're not the image we're not the story and you're certainly not the mind how many questions have been spoken about the mind in this room show me your mind what are you talking about what's anybody talking about when they're talking about the mind is there such a thing Krishnamurti says the mind is the past and then somebody asked him he says can if the mind is the past can the mind be rid of the past well can it if the mind is the past how can it be rid of the past it can't it says the mind is the past mind is the me the mind is the past there is no me in the present yeah just present awareness with that we are aware the fact that we are aware of thoughts the fact that we are aware of the body the fact that we are aware ok the mistake that we make is that we assume that it's me that is aware that's right it's me that can see thoughts it's me that can experience feelings it's me that experiences the body and it ain't no there's literally not a me there but that's the mistake we make that's right we claim it I'm yeah sure yeah I can be aware that thoughts come and go now that's not that there's not awareness of thoughts coming and going because there is awareness of that fact the problem is we believe it's me and that me that believes it's aware and it's seeing and it's blah blah blah that needs to be investigated and that's another part of the mind yeah the mind isn't it that needs to be looked at that needs to be it's one thing to come to an understanding and you do come to the understanding because you see it you know it's one thing to come to an understanding that thoughts just come and go and I'm not choosing them and they just kind of rapid fire through my mind throughout the course of the day and you know I can just see it all happen that's one thing the problem with that is we still believe it's me that is now aware of that so that me that believes it's aware of that needs to be investigated that's what needs to be looked at the fact that there is awareness that's what needs to be aware of that is true the problem is we believe that there is an entity here and it's my awareness and I'm aware of that find that that entity that's claiming ownership of the awareness this is my awareness this is my seeing this is my hearing this is my body this is my my my my my self is there any point to thinking is there any use there's no person there's no self self-aware self-shining it's that self itself intelligence energy whatever you like to call it it's self-knowing self-seeing it's the one self expressing and appearing as everything when we put it on the personal self we've taken it down from its totality into a miserable little human shape or form you can think what you like if you know that it's one essence patterning, shaping, forming and expressing one life and you are that life what is the point of thinking you're the person for the activities might take place through as the personal the seeming person well you could say there is a point in a way I mean of course it's just kind of positive thinking type of a thing because there is no point really other than from the fact that you didn't have any saying you were conditioned to think you are an entity and you were kind of destined to think you are an entity and many people don't even have the option to wake up from that dream from that illusion that they are an entity but some who do when they wake up they see the point oh shit if I didn't believe to be a separate entity I would never ever be capable of experiencing the oneness because the oneness can only be experienced from its opposite so if you think you are limited and you realize that oh my gosh I am not the one that I am now the experience is changing so one could say provisionally to experience freedom you have to go to the cage first but it is only a story because there is no usefulness really I mean animals don't experience the separation of the ego and it doesn't mean that they are you know that they are missing the point or they are losing the functionality of it because there are people who also believe that ego has a functionality and of course they are probably right because they define the ego as pervasive personality structure they say oh my ego is actually my reasoning capacity or my ego is my language so it depends how they define the word but in the way we are using the word the imagined separate self of course it doesn't have functionality of course it doesn't have any it actually yeah it has one functionality for maybe masochists who love to suffer because you do have to have the sense of separate self that is vulnerable and insecure to suffer with it and without that there is no suffering there is pain but there is no suffering because if you are one with life why would you resist the stormy weather or the rainy day or the cold night if this is who you are this is your way of expressing but if you feel you are separate and a god is doing it intentionally to you poor me now I shouldn't be experiencing the stormy or or night or whatever then there is suffering so the ego the function of the ego is to create suffering and to wake up from it also but is it really necessary well it is an after story because there is no other way I mean to say if something could have been different is a dream again because it couldn't that's the way it is that's the way it appears oh wouldn't it be wonderful some of the teachers are promising seekers that you know when the collective awakening happened and we will all be enlightened and the dream again this is not what is happening this is just another illusion another dream which actually makes people pay which is not a bad idea because that's how life expresses too that's how life brings them makes them interested into enquiry there is nothing wrong there are no wrong they are just life they are not the doers but the truth is experientially this is it for having no separate self if I experience one.

There is no possibility to have one if I don't. It's just what is. And the functionality is a really good question. You can get quite a few stories about it. But the truth is, there is no other way. That's just what is. Did you think there is some functionality to it? Like maybe in your definition there is. Like people would say, oh, if I didn't have separate self, I wouldn't be concerned what I'm gonna eat tomorrow. Well, it doesn't really work this way because I believed I had separate self few years ago and I was concerned what I'm eating tomorrow. And now I don't believe I have separate self and I'm still doing just the same.

It's like the doing happens. Whether the belief is there that the entity is doing it or there is no belief that entity is doing. Life looks just the same, just the same. The seeing is the same, the hearing, the thinking, the habits, even the way Bob Forty, 32 years of clarity, moving his hands the same way he always did. But only the belief is missing. That there is someone there inside, some little entity, some dwarf or whatever it is, a phantom that is doing it. And there's a traveling lighter. Oh, boy. There's a traveling lighter when you're not dissipating the energy on the identification with the separate self that's naming and claiming everything.

There's a release of it. There's a release of energy that happens here that is not utilized in a story. A story of the Jane and what Jane's going to do and how Jane's going to do it, when she's going to do it, who she's going to do it to and blah, blah, blah. It's like a traveling lighter. Yeah. Also suffering is heavy too. Resistance is heavy. Yeah. I guess the question came up because why? Investigate that. If you, you're going to have to use imagination. If you had no body, would you feel separate? Think about it just for a moment. I can't know that. Well, I said to use your imagination.

If there was no body, would there be the notion of being separate? So the question is, what is it that we identify with? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. We actually believe, feel separate and it's the body. Absolutely. It's the body. Yeah. Okay. Now, that being the case, what part of that body that's sitting there in that chair right now or anybody in this room for that matter, but what part of that body sitting in that chair right now is saying, I feel separate and I'm scared. Your foot, your hand, your arm, your butt, your right leg, your left leg, your neck.

Yeah. Your ear, your nose, what part of that body is freaking out, saying, I'm separate, I'm scared, I'm isolated? Not one single part of it is. Zero. So the body actually, in reality, isn't separate from anything. But there's an idea or a notion in here that says, I am this body. And it's the notion in here, it's an idea that there's separation. There's a belief that there's separation. And because this same belief owns the body and says, I am this, this is mine, then it believes that the body is separate. And I've got to protect it. It's a crock of shit. Really. When you look at it yourself, when you actually look at it, but you've got to look at it, you've got to do the work yourself.

It won't matter what anybody says, won't matter what anyone says. Won't matter. Until you do the work and look for yourself, all of this is just verbiage. You're welcome. You're welcome. And it's quite probable that when you actually see it, you will still experience 99% of people in the world coming back from the sense of separate self, because that's how it appears to be. It seems like we are the only species with that reasoning capacity. And the byproduct of reasoning capacity, which is a labeling, it kind of separates the whole appearance. And yeah, well, and it produces stories. And for the awareness experience itself as a form.

As a thought, as a sound, as whatever experiencing itself as a story is thrilling. So if 99% of human forms will stay identified and will be buying on 2000 stories per minute, well, that's thrilling for the awareness. In certain points of consciousness, it may actually see the story for what they are, the stories. And in other points of consciousness, it may see the story for what they are, the stories. And in other points of consciousness, it may go totally for the ride. Why not? It sounds unfair from the human perspective. Okay, I'm a person. I want to wake up and I can't. That's unfair. But I'm not a person.

It is just a dream. Awareness is dreaming. So from the ultimate perspective, there's nothing wrong if someone doesn't wake up. It's nothing wrong if awareness has that point of experiencing 1000 stories per minute. Oh, this morning. Oh, my gosh. I'm. Feeling ugly. I'm stupid. I'm unworthy. And then somebody tells me a compliment. Oh, my God, I'm not so bad. I'm actually doing quite well. Story about me now. Okay. But my neighbors, she didn't say good morning. She must be hiding me. Now, you know, this is all possible when you believe you are separate self and you obsessing about yourself and everything happened for yourself. So now as a consciousness, what a thrill.

I can't do it anymore. I can't do it. If consciousness in this point is just so much more dead comparing to the ego that is so turn apart to so many different movies. So you can actually by waking up lose all that thrill. But as a human pattern, you lose nothing. You just lose suffering. But as a consciousness. You actually giving up on all that drama. Yeah. And you experience, of course, experiences right now are much more juicy and full without that drama because so much more attention is actually with what is going on right now with the senses, with hearing, seeing everything, the colors, the sounds there, the sky.

They are so much more beautiful in a way because they they actually really. Acknowledged they seen. Whilst few years ago, I didn't really notice that much because I was too busy obsessing about myself, what I think and other think and whatever. So this was just kind of a shift into a different experience of the world. In one hand, nothing changes. And in the other hand, everything changes because of that subtle shift, which kind of brings the attention releases the attention from that trap of self obsession. That's as Jane was saying, that self centered that you actually manufacture and you hold on and you put so much investment and so much energy into keeping the jacket that that sort of a coat of identity on that that whole energy is released is free.

Not only you travel lighter, but that attention is free now to actually love itself in everything it sees to smell the roses and to just be alive. Yeah. Maybe kill as well or lose. Then have to. Yeah. Yeah. What is it? You said we travel light. I said, we kill as well or lose. It's the mental baggage. That's my Tony. No. Bob, Bob, Bob wants to listen. Oh, yeah. The same as Derri was saying, you can't separate anything in the body. When you look at the liver cells, and they're all still part of the body, they're seemingly different cells, but you can't say so in the microcosm is it is same in the macrocosm.

In nature, there's nothing separate in nature either. It's all the one essence. Postulate something outside of space. And you told a different variety and manifestations all there. That's the simplicity of it. Everything is the one. And you are that. And time's caught up with us. Oh, OK. What's that? Never wanted to be here in the first place. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. OK, thank you, everyone. This is . You're in your dream, and you're stuck there.