Sailor Bob - Non Duality - Who is it happening to? 20 Jan 19

Apparently an idiot, lots of dogs. Dogs? How good are they? How are they? What's up? Well, just smoke the... ..the fire from the firebox. So we can't record it for a minute. We're ready to start. So can you say your names? Did you have last week? Mark. Tony. Tess. Sebastian. Tony. Virginia. Justin. David. Tony. Steve. LAUGHTER He's a little bit tiny. LAUGHTER I like it. Terence said he was Tony. It's just a label. Seemed like the flag of the room. Yeah. Two Ts. Well, we kick off the usual, as we usually do. Yeah. Telling you the same old, same old. If it hasn't resonated or sunk in yet, next time you might hear it, you might...

..resonate with a bit... recognise, recognise a little bit more. Don't teach you anything and we don't tell you anything. Understand that. When you realise what we're pointing to, that's what we do, we point... ..ask you to look to where we're pointing to to see for yourself. When you realise what we're pointing to and see for yourself, you realise we couldn't teach you anything anyway or tell you anything. And you realise nobody ever can or nobody ever will. Because there is nobody other than that... ..such in an end that you already are. The existence, consciousness, bliss or loving to be, or being awareness and loving to be, or have an affectionate awareness of being.

In other words, be a little bit warm to you, a little bit warm to yourself. If that affection is not there, that liveliness there, that the heartfelt essence permeates through you as an affectionate knowing that you are. A definition of good, good definition of consciousness is an existence. Consciousness is existence. And the other part of it is utterly aware that it exists. So there's your awareness. Awareness is not a thing. You know, when we hear the word awareness or consciousness, we've got to try and grasp this thing we call awareness or consciousness. But if you listen to that, utterly aware that it exists. Anyone who is unaware of existing right now, well, that's your consciousness in which all patterns, shapes and forms appear in the consciousness.

The awareness is the basic screen on which is all the process. And you can only and ever be that screen. That's what everything is. Is the screen, the stillness, the silence, the emptiness. They call it cognizing emptiness in Buddhism. Buddhism. Not that we are cognizing the emptiness. We think, oh, I'm cognizing this. We're not. It's the emptiness that's doing the cognizing and expressing through you as you are. And that's the real thing. That's the real thing. It's the true you as you and as everything, every other thing in this manifestation. And the manifestation is full of things. That carpet's a thing. The mirror's a thing.

The tree outside's a thing. You and I are things. And what is appearing in the space like awareness or the pure beingness or the consciousness, all different levels we put on, is no thing. Because what comes out of it? What can you say space is? Is the space a thing? Can you put a center to it or a circumference to it? Or give it any shape or any form? Find a beginning to it or an end to it? You can't. It is no thing. And can you postulate or think of any thing, all these other things that could be outside of no thing? And you realize there's nothing that can be outside of it.

No thing. So everything is that no thing. Some thing cannot come from no thing. Though we believe it is, but it's all pattern, shapes and forms which are the no thing appearing as other. And that's the Mahavacca. I am that. You are that. This is that. Don't you know that in your language? You say that's a chair, that's a carpet, that's the tree, that's the flower. Everything is that which we put different labels on, different words. And what are the labels? They're just words. And where do words come from? When you investigate that and have a look, you'll realize that you weren't born with any words.

And every word you've ever spoken or ever liked as a speaker has been learned, been picked up along the way. So what did you know about anything until you learned words? Can you say, I was born? You say, I was born, but you can't remember your birth. And you don't remember the next two, first two years, or two and a half or whatever it was, somewhere in it of life. When the reasoning began, the capacity of reasoning developed. And that capacity of reasoning is when you started to learn words. And you learnt these words from your parents. And then you went on to your schools, to society, and then your peers, everybody around you, was learning words.

Now look at the word. You've got all these words, plenty of words. But is the word the thing? Take the word water, can you drink the word? Can you swim the water? Can you swim in it? Will you drown in it? Can you wash in it? So the word water is not the water. The word fire, does it burn your mouth? Can you cook with it? Can you heat yourself with the word? You can't. So maybe this word I or me, which you've had other concepts to, is not what you are. Though we've taken a bit to be real. I am. You can't do much with I am, so what have we done to it?

That's a primary word, that was the primary thought. We've added other words to it. I'm Bob, which my parents told me. I'm an Australian. Again I was told. I'm a good fellow or not so good. I might believe myself to be that. Say you're an idiot, or you're this, you're that, put all sorts of labels on you. But all those labels added onto this conceptual image. I or me. And so we've come to believe this conceptual image. I or me. The self-centred or the ego is what I really am. Because that's all the self-centred ego consists of. A group of words. And you realise, you look at that, that they're dead.

The words of yesterday are dead and gone. But we're constantly relating to them. Relating to this dead image of yesterday, yesteryear. Taking all the old and the new. And we're constantly relating to them. Relating to this dead image of yesterday, yesteryear. Taking all the old and the new. Taking all the idea we are a person. A person's a word we've learnt. Where does person come from? We think the person is me. A separate entity, the individual. But it comes from an ancient Latin word, persona. Meaning the mask. Meaning we've got this conceptual image. A mask made up of concepts. Concepts are words, thoughts, ideas, images.

We've got a conceptual image of what I believe myself to be. So when I say I am now, with this, I'm not talking about the natural essence. That awareness of existence. We're giving it to the shape and form I believe myself to be. I becomes me or my self. Now that's what it's all about. The scriptures of the Bible say, it'll tell you, you've got to recognize this self. Understand this self. Realize and know that it is the one self. There's only one self appearing as everything. There is no personal self anywhere. As we've taken on this, there is a personal self. And we try to get this personal self, recognize this personal self, and realize it.

Make it real. Make it seemly so. Well you can't do that with something that is a fiction, that never existed. And how long have you tried? We've tried to recognize this self, this me. Self-realization. Self-liberation. Self-awareness. But it is the self that is aware. It is the self that is realized. It is the self that is this, that is that, that is everything. It's all that one self. It's not many selves. It's one self. And you are that, the same as everything else in this room, outside this room, anywhere at all, is that one self, patterning, shaping, forming, and appearing and expressing as everything. Everything.

So there's only the one essence. And you already are that. That's what's known, that needs to be seen, clearly seen, seemly recognized. And when they say, abide as that, that's what they're referring to. Stay with that natural essence that you are. And see what happens then, when you're not relating to a personal existence, a personal entity, and it's only to the personal, the seeming mental image, that problems happen. All the problems you've ever had are going to happen to the me, or I. In the recognition that the me or I is a fiction, who's going to have any problems? What problems are there out there in nature?

They can appear or seem to be many. They can be tsunamis, ice ages, volcanic eruptions, all sorts of things, droughts, floods, fires, everything going on out there. But has nature itself been corrupted or contaminated by any of the things that it got on it? When you recognize that you are that essence, all the fears, all the hatred, all the other things that have happened in your life, jealousy, envy, doubts, anxiety, stresses, depressions, and everything that's happened in your life, have never corrupted or contaminated that essence that you are. It's never been touched. What scars are there on space from everything that's going on in space?

Any scars, any big holes, any damage? It's not touched. It's not corrupted or contaminated by anything. You see that in the movie screen. You can screen the basic screen. You've got these movies going on. There can be cowboys and Indians, cowboys shooting up the Indians, or the other way around, dead bodies everywhere. When the movie stops, how many dead bodies are on the screen? How many eruptions, or how many whatever else has gone on? None whatsoever. But if the screen wasn't there, could any of it appear? Could any of it happen? What would it happen? And you see this in nature, if you look, darling, like the reflection of a seeming mirage on the road, of a rainbow, of a snake in a rope, the flat Earth.

It's all seemingly so. But when it's investigated, it's not as it appears, and that's what needs to happen. We need to investigate and see for ourselves, because nobody's ever going to do it for you. They can point to it, point in the direction, ask you to look, but you need to look and go closely into it and see, is there anything there substantial, that's static, with an independent nature, that I can say, this is what I am? When I investigate that, I can't find anything at all that is solid or substantial to say this is what I am. And not only what I am, but what I am with all the concepts I've put on it.

I'm Bob the Australian, the fearful, the anxious, the depressed one, or the unhappy one. None of those things are there, if I go to the essence and what they're appearing on. They're not there at all. Doesn't mean to say they won't keep coming up. Look in nature again. They still seemingly appear to be so. And could there be a manifestation if there was no appearance or no expressions in it? Couldn't be. So it would still be that cognising emptiness. But in the cognising or the knowing, patterns in that natural functioning, the knowing, is an activity. It's a movement. The seeing, the hearing, the tasting, the touching, the smelling, the knowing, the feeling, the feeling.

It's a movement. Activities. A movement is an activity. And any activity is a movement of that energy. I call it intelligence energy. I don't use the term God. That's what we put. We put the label God on it. And we come from different backgrounds, different scriptures, different traditions, and we all got different ideas or concepts of what we think this God is. No wonder we can't find the answer. Looking in your religions and your scriptures. They give you all sorts of practices and things to do. And some of you might have been doing it for 10, 20, 30 years. Trying hard, earnestly and sincerely. Never found the answer.

Why haven't you? You're intelligent people. Might not just do it on you. Maybe I've been looking in the wrong direction. I've been looking in this mind all this time to find the answer. It'll be in this concept, this thought, this book, this mantra. It'll be there. But we never found the answer in the mind. What if I looked to see what the mind is? And realized there is no such thing as mind? Have a look. What can you say mind is? Show me what the thing you call mind is. What concept you've got about mind? You see there's nothing there. All mind is is thought.

And what's thought? Thought's a vibration of energy. That intelligence energy of vibrating into patterns we call words. Ideas, concepts, images. And if the mind is a vibration of energy, that intelligence energy is vibrating into the mind. And if the mind is only thought, and the primary thought is that thought I am was the first thought come to me, you'd be that thought. But you're glad to give that thought up every night when you go to sleep. And it's not there throughout the day when you're thinking other things. You must realize, you don't have to be a Rhodes Scholar to recognize that there can't be that thought.

And how can I find thought with thought? As they say in the scriptures, it's like trying to wash away blood with blood. It doesn't happen. So that's why we say you'll never find the answer in the mind. The answer is when the mind is not. So you'll never ever get peace of mind. That's what we look for. We hate all this chatter and all this, like to keep going on and on and on. We want to get rid of it. We want to be free of it. But what do the ancients call it? They call it the peace that passes all understanding. Why would they use that name understanding?

Unless they see what is happening. It's trying to be understood with the concept, with the thought, with the idea. But it's beyond the understanding, prior to the understanding. The peace is when the mind is not. When there is no minding going on, then there is a natural peace. What can you say about deep sleep when you fall into it overnight, when there's no thought of I am or anything before you start dreaming? It's not there. You can't put any concept or label on it. But you can't say you're unhappy in that state then. You can't say you're angry or fearful in that state. It's not until the waking comes upon you that these things come up.

So it's this conceptual image that we've formed that is the cause of all our problems. And that's all this manifestation. And manifestation appears dualistically. It feels as me and the other, mine and yours, this and that, good and bad, pleasant and painful. And it's all related to one end. The end we've taken on to be what we think we are, the I or me. We learn words like I or me, and we add on to that I'm Bob, the Australian, the good fella, and think we are that conceptual image. That has become the I or the me. Not just a thought anymore, a mental image.

Thoughts added on to that. And that's what we call a pattern. A pattern of what we call this human form. This body-mind entity. This person. This persona. This individual. Taking the stance that everything becomes relative to that image. And relativity is dualism. Relationship or relativity is dualism. And look at that. We're constantly relating to everything. And that's what we call a pattern. And that's what we call a pattern. And that's what we call a pattern. And that's what we call a pattern. For everything. As I say, we've just formed this me, and there must be other than me. Me and the other are duality. So we've got the conceptual idea of duality.

When the manifestation is the one essence, pattern shaping and forming and expressing as everything. There's absolutely no duality in it whatsoever. Duality and non-duality are names. Labels we put on it. Taken to be real, and we try to work it out by finding, looking at them, the one and discarding the other. But as I say, you put out the soap, they'll tell you there is no one-handed stick as the way they try to put it out. The stick has got two ends to it. You can't get a one-handed stick ever. It's got two ends. And one end might be thin, the other thick. So we've conceptualised, divided them into two.

No one-sided coin. The coin has got two sides to it. One can be heads, one can be tails, one can be something like that. We take them up. And when they say that the only problem in this manifestation is karma, cause and effect, everything seemingly has a cause. And every cause has a seeming effect. Cause and effect are dualism. Everything becomes relative to that cause, me. All our problems are problems of relationship. Dualism. Relativity. And if we understand, as we pointed out, there is absolutely no duality in non-duality whatsoever. No duality in this world, what we're talking about, whatsoever. If you can see that, and even get a taste of it and grasp it, if you're going to look into the duality of everything and continue to do that, though it's still going to appear, it's still going to manifest and still going to express.

And it couldn't be any other way. But if you know the truth about it, are you going to believe it? It's the same as you know the truth today that the earth is not flat. But look out where the sea and the sky meet, and stand on the shore and look out where they arise, and it looks like the edge of the earth, doesn't it? It still looks that way. But nobody believes that the earth is flat anymore. When you see the water in the mirage, driving down the road and it appears to be water in a mirage. You drive up and it disappears. You recognise that?

You don't believe it anymore, you see, it's not true. When you go outside and see a rainbow, you're not going to fly up and see if you can grasp that rainbow, you know, there's nothing there except the sun shining through the mist that forms colours on the background, the empty space. There's no colours there whatsoever. I've got a crystal in the window there, the sun shines through it every day, and it breaks up into colours on the wall. I can't grab any of those colours off the wall, and I can go up and look at it. It's not true. It's not true. It's not true.

It's not true. And I can go up and look into that crystal and I can't see any colours in it. The mire, or the illusion. Recognise it. So I don't believe that these colours are real, though I admire them and say they're beautiful. I admire the rainbow, I see all the things that admire the dualistic pattern shaping for me, but know the truth about it. The snake and the rope is one they put out there. A fella stands out and walks out of his hut one night, and stands on, he's been running, stands on a wet piece of rope, it rolls under his head, and he says, he's running, he stands on a wet piece of rope, it rolls under his feet, and it's dark and he doesn't know and he thinks he's trod on the snake.

And immediately the gross pimples arise, the hair and fingers, hair and skin stand, or hair stands on end, and he imagines the serpent biting him. And all the sort of fear comes in. Somebody comes out and shines a torch on it. Look, it's only a piece of wet rope. There's an immediate sense of relief. Shit, I was taken in by that. But the gross pimples and the fear and the hairs down on end don't go down straight away. Because they become physical. Take a bit longer to die down. But through the mental he's seen through it, not bound into it anymore. And that's what needs to be in.

In the recognition of these things, the energy of belief can go, no longer go into them. And that's what's kept them going. Energy. Energy. Energy in the belief. Look in your dictionary definition of the word belief. The definition of belief is an unquestioned acceptance of something in the absence of reason. Something we're accepting without working it out. We're taking it for what our parents told us without looking at it. Like things like Santa Claus and Easter Bunny, until we got the reasoning and had to look at them, we said that they were false. Doesn't mean to say that they go away. We've got to keep them going, because we've got some pleasure out of it.

But you're knowing the truth about it. Acceptance of an alleged fact. Of an alleged fact without positive knowledge or proof. You can't confirm it. You can't make it real by investigating. So ask yourself this. Can there be an effect if you're not relating to a cause? Well you don't have to be a Rhodes Scholar. It's smart to work that out. If I'm not relating to any cause, to any background belief, what's there? Where can it lodge? It must disperse, must disappear. And is there any thought really stitched into your head or glued onto your head? Or stored in your brain? You'd have a brain bigger than the house if every thought was stored into it.

There's not. Thoughts come, thoughts go. But we can put the energy of belief into them and fix them. Fixate on them. Fixating on them is keeping them there. Instead of letting them be, ride on themselves, we fixate on them and keep them there. And by the keeping there they're called anxiety, fear, guilt, shame, remorse, jealousy, envy, distress. All these psychological problems will come up. All related to the conceptual image of me. This me seeming something solid and real. Well is it? Investigate and have a look. We do that by asking them, do we? Everybody's seeing right now, everybody's hearing right now, isn't that a fact?

Ask yourself this. Does my eye, my physical eye, tell me I see? And you realise my eye, well I don't know if yours is or not, but mine's not saying look at this bob, look at that bob, that's good, that's nice, that's not so good. My eye cannot say anything at all. Not a thing. Can yours? But it is the instrument through which the seeing is happening. That physical eye is the instrument which you're seeing things through. And that instrument, the seeing, is translated into the thought I see. So you see the thought I see is just a concept. It's not the actual seeing. That's what we're relating to, the conceptual image.

Does the ear tell you I hear? My ear's not saying listen to this, listen to that, it doesn't say anything at all. But again it's translated by the thought I hear. And the thought I see and the thought I hear are not just pure seeing or hearing. Remember what we've put onto them. That's me, Bob, the conceptual image, the egoic image, thinks it's seeing, thinks it's hearing. The thought I'm aware of, that's your awareness. Well have a look at that. Anybody unaware right now? Why I'm saying this and why you're hearing this, have you lost that awareness, have you tucked it away anywhere? Well you wouldn't hear a word or see anything around you if it was.

So you realise you are not unaware right now. If you're not unaware you must be. Aware. So is the thought I am aware, is that your awareness? So you see the thought I see, the thought I hear, the thought I'm aware. Can the thought I see actually see? Shut your eyes and look around and see what you can see with the thought. Can the thought I hear actually hear? Lock your ears off and see what you can hear with the thought. The thought I'm aware, that's your awareness. The thought I choose, is that the choice maker? You look at these things and you see this thought up entity can't do anything at all.

It's a fiction. Got no substance or got no any independent nature. We constantly relate to it and refer to it. But if you know the truth about it, you're not going to believe it has. It hasn't got any power. Though again the belief is that it's got some power. Mind power, thought power, higher power, this power. And the scriptures tell you, and if you have a look at it and understand it too, if it's all one, there is only one power. It's omnipower, omnipotence, our total power. Omnipresence, our total presence, omniscience. The great perfection or the absolute. That is all there is. And if that is all there is, can you or I or anything else in it be anything other than it?

What are you going to do? Stand there in the silence. The concept of being a separate entity, an individual. Continue to suffer. Continue to think you can work it out in the mind. Continue to think you can choose and do this. Or you're going to relax and recognise your natural state. And realise it's that natural state that's brought you into existence. When did you begin? You can't remember your birth, but go back to your parents, your father and your mother. And see that in that life essence. The life essence was functioning right then. The essence of the food in your father. And the air, the primary breath, and the same in your mother.

Enabled a sperm and an ovum to form in those two patterns. A little microscopic particle. Again the intelligence energy was forming it. It knew what to do. And that sperm was suffused with that intelligence. Knowing what to do, it knew to swim to the ovum. The ovum knew what to do. It attached itself to all the uterus. And when those two came together, that cell doubled and redoubled. What were you doing about it as a person then? Couldn't do anything at all about it because you didn't know. You didn't have any idea. You didn't even have a brain at that one stage. But it's that same two things that come in together.

That have doubled and doubled and redoubled. Still living you. Expressing through you and breathing you. Which are not separate from the rest of the universe. Still living you and doing everything today. As it was doing then. But see what we've done to it when we put this entity on it. We've taken the idea and we're running the show. See all the strife we get into. See the troubles that are in the world. Doesn't mean to say that things won't happen in the world. It'll change. That's its nature. It's constantly transient. And it'll constantly ever be transient. But realize that the transient is what they call Maya.

Or illusion. Appearance. Only seemingly so. Patterns, shapes and forms. Which you can say are like shadows or movies appearing on the screen. And without the screen they couldn't appear. That's what or all that is. And that's what I tell you again in the scriptures. Everything is what is. What is means it's unaltered. Unmodified. Uncorrected. No preference. No partiality. No comparison. Leave it as it is in its completeness. And it will express as it's expressing, has expressed and will continue to express. Just as it ever is. But if you're not putting up the boundary, the seeming mental construct. The stopping natural or complete or total flow coming through.

There can be a lot of problems in life. When you're not relaxing into that beingness. And let the beingness express naturally and effortlessly. It's much easier. Much simpler. Much happier. Much more complete. So that's what we point to and ask you to look along those lines and see for yourself. And got any questions, bring them out. Questions to investigate until you see for yourself. If you've had taste of it, which everybody has, you wouldn't be here if you hadn't. Had taste of it and gone back into the old habit. And you can understand why. Because that habit you've got of beingness separate indeed has been reinforced every day.

By your parents in the first place. Then by your schools. Then by you. Then by your schools. Then by society and everybody around you. Are reinforcing it. So it's easy to fall back into it. But you can step out of it. Which people have done. Through the years. That's the people that have stepped out of it that the religions have formed out. Formed over. Been the great sages, saints, saviours and seers. But people haven't lifted that. They've set the saints, saviours, saviours, seers up. As great beings. As superior beings. As gods. As gurus. This, that and the other. And worshipped the messenger. And left the message alone.

The message has been distorted and corrupted. You look in all the scriptures you'll see that. See the clear and empty message that you are. And abide as that. That's what they tell you. Abide as that. Just relax and be as that. Don't try and be anything other than that. Because you never have. Well you might believe yourself to be. You never will be. And while that belief is going on. It's going to be trouble. So, plenty of time. Away you go. You question it. Go into it and tell us about it. What you understand. Or something you're stuck with. Let us know. And somebody will answer it for you.

Or what they take is it. And you can test that out too. Test everything out for yourself. That's the acid test of everything. Does it work? If it doesn't work, throw it out. Like throw it out. Throw it out. Throw it out. Throw it out. Throw it out. Throw it out. Throw it out. Throw it out. Throw it out. Throw it out. Throw it out. Throw it out. Throw it out. Throw it out. Throw it out. Throw it out. But if you get some relief, some different from it and know it's working, utilised it will... and it'll bring about more of the same. Away you go.

Would you say that, it's the same thing? Yes. You see, you can't have this pure consciousness. So, how does that compare... Yes. Consciousness is like that. I put that definition here. Consciousness is an existence... Yeah. Starts with one, as good as anything. utterly aware that it exists. So the existence, the awareness is there first. And when it becomes conscious, it's recognised. But it's totally aware. So the consciousness is only related to this dream? And before the dream, the awareness was always there? Yeah, what's the theory? Without consciousness. Yeah, what can you stay about it without any appearing or expression? Nothing. But without anything appearing on it, are you unaware?

When you're asleep, are you unaware? You might think you're unaware. Yeah. Because you wouldn't wake up. When you go to sleep, you've got a conscious effort to go to sleep. I mean, I can go to sleep and say, I'm done. I'm going to sleep. Even though it's not me. But I would say that it's me going to sleep. But really, when I wake up, I can't say I woke up because there was no me. I wasn't aware of waking up. Out of the manifestation, does the emptiness say that's a chair, that's a carpet, that's a mountain, that's a thing, that's something else? No. They're all appearing in awareness, but they need another expression to label them.

These human patterns, they're not just a thing. They're not just a thing. That's the same essence expressing through these patterns, and that was the consciousness, the words. Which didn't come upon you, the words. The awareness was there until it happened. When you learned words, the consciousness came about then. The words, the concept. Consciousness came after awareness, he's asking. Yeah. Well, see. Have a look at the little child. He's aware. Existence. existing, but what can he say about it? Seeing, hearing, and tasting, but he can't put any labels on it. Thoughts or mind. Non-duality was prior to duality. Yet, without duality you couldn't know non-duality. So they're interconnected anyway.

You can't have one without the other. We're phenomenal. In its unicity it can't know itself. So that's why phenomenon is there too. Because like Terry said, they're interrelated. You can't have one without the other. That's why it is what it is. It is what it is. It doesn't mean to say that phenomenon is going to stop appearing, but if you know the truth about it, you'll be less troubled by it. When you say in your books and that about the universe, you're not talking about the universe. You're talking about the universe. You're talking about the universe. I'm not talking to any bodies. I'm not talking to any mind.

I'm talking to the I am that I am. I could never understand that. I think I've, I don't want to say worked it out, but I understand that the body doesn't exist because it's only a concept. There's a specific body that exists within a body. It's a presence, yeah. I'm not talking to body-mind. I'm talking to that sense of presence that expresses through the mind, as the thought I am in the sense of presence, the same sense of presence is manifesting there. And it expresses through all different patterns and shapes of the mind. Yeah so it's I am speaking to I am. Sense of presence is the sense of presence.

You said.. Did you always say that the body is independent and operates by itself. The mind like an object inside and outside, is so unique and unique within our everyday life. Dominates. it's like it's an entity but it's it's sort of saying that they it's part of the whole it's just what makes it a body is the concept body and without that concept there is no body Every cell in your body is infused with that intelligence. A liver cell is a liver cell, a brain cell is a brain cell, a heart cell. They know what to do. and prionine is a fusion intelligence. And a whole lot completely make up with this thing we call a body.

I was just making a comment. That that's responsible for the whole idea of a menis is that presence. Is that awareness. So there's no body to get this. There's no body to wake up. No mind to get this. And there's no mind to get this. There's no mind to wake up. Because that's that's both those components are an expression in duality. And the dual, the dual can't, yeah, the duality can't wake up. The dualism can't wake up. So when Bob says I'm speaking to that I am, that that I am, we sit here and think that a me is being spoken to. It's not. It's not.

It's not. The me is, it's fictitious for a start. It's a fiction for a start. So why bother talking to it? How about we talk to that that's responsible for the fiction. That that's real. That's that that that's present. That that's here now. Totally spontaneous here now all the time. It's that that's being spoken to from that. So it's oneness speaking to oneness. To itself. Yeah, to itself if you like. That's a point of it. Because we think our identity is the body and mind. Yeah, yeah. And the pattern is climbing ownership. That's where all the problems start. And then there's a split. The dreamer is taking responsibility.

You know. It's like the when you're asleep and that all the stuff that goes on in your dreams. when you're asleep and your character's in that dream, taking ownership of the dream. It's also part of the dream. What's becoming apparent to me, if I can say, is that there is no reference point. So you can't stay in the body too long, you can't stay in the mind too long, if you want to, you know, and if you do, it's a false claim of contradiction because there's no reference point. So where are you going to go? I want to understand that every body, every so-called body-mind or every seeming entity in this room is a unique expression of that intelligence energy.

You mightn't love yourself, you might think yourself worthwhile, but you are a unique expression, realise that. It's that one essence that's functioning in this universe, that forms and is living and expressing as you. Instead of beating yourself up with the concept you think you're not good enough or you haven't got the right shaped body or head or whatever, you know, we beat the hell out of ourselves, there's nothing else like you. And it's the one essence that's expressing as you. It's amazing and wonderful. And all the seeming problems that form in and ignore us, there's nothing else like it. We kill ourselves up, beat ourselves up, go to war, fight, argue, try to fix what can't be fixed.

The me can never be fixed. That's a good point. It's like because we often kind of judge ourselves, but there are things in the appearance that we don't judge. There are things in the appearance that blow our mind, like a magnificent view from the top of the mountains or the night sky with the shooting stars or a beautiful rose with the light of the sun. Or little dewdrops shining, reflecting the sun. And if we see the beauty, the unspeakable beauty like this, we just disappear in awe like, my God. And now remembering that exactly the same life essence created those diamonds or those pearls of aesthetics animates you.

I mean, the same perfection, the same beauty and the same depth is in every creature. And including the dying whatever or decomposing body and including the beautiful or ugly face or including the thought, every thought, positive, negative, is the same one appearing as all those forms. So being capable of seeing that magnificence and now just seeing it everywhere because it is the same one. Of course it's easier to look at the face of the beloved, and recognize it. And it's much harder to look at ourselves because we were told to be humble and to be, you know, to kind of put ourselves down and maybe deserve approval from others than maybe we amount to something.

But that's just so dishonest. That's just so conceptual. And that's also taking credit for that magnificence. If I judge myself as not good enough, I didn't create myself. I'm judging God. And yes, we don't talk about God. We're judging, I'm judging life. So who am I to actually give myself any negative labels or positive? It's a mystery. It's a beauty. You know, if you get those Disney, I don't know if you've all seen these Disney 3D magic cards or paintings of 3D. But when you surrender and let go and relax and into the flow of just being aware of this picture, you see that which is always there behind that initial front picture of 3D.

And I sometimes carry that thing around and look at it again because it's always there. It's just we over, it's overlooked. And so overlooked, so getting back to being aware of almost being aware, in a sense. But it's the overlooking of that which is always here now, the truth of who we are, the beauty and the joy and the awe of what you're talking about. As it says, the oddly aware. That exists. Yeah, that had a really big impression on me maybe 20 years ago when I stared at this thing and all of a sudden... Yeah, and we're told it's not there or it shouldn't.

No, it's not there, but it is. And it's just a real... It's just a reinforcement that no matter how cloudy it gets in front of us all, much our beliefs or anything that gets in the way, there is, in my experience, that peace, love and joy of that that's here now. And if it's not, if that love, peace and joy and sense of awe and sense of gratitude for life, if it is not there, that natural love of being, the Sat Chit Ananda, if it feels like it's not there, it's still there in that place. Exactly. That's what I mean. And the easy way, Bob says, look what obscures it.

Look for what is actually clouding it. And probably 100% of the time it will be a concept. It may not be really like very visible concept, it may be some sort of a feeling or emotion or sense of luck or sense of... Doesn't have to be a thought or image. But it's usually some sort of uneasiness. It has to change for me to experience the sense of satisfaction or rest or peace. So this one is to be questioned, this one is to be looked at, because that very sense is the core of the conceptual image, is the core of that costume that we put on ourselves.

We are unlimited life, and now we believe ourselves to be a coat, the car or the house, like Bob says, you know, the body or the mind. So now this very subtle belief, of course, if I kind of shrink my limitlessness into any form, even the greatest form, there's still going to be a sense of incompleteness there, because my true nature is limitless, and now I'm limited. So that sense of limitedness, it appears in the body as a sense of lack or sense of void or sense of not enough, not this. In the moment. In the moment. And the mind asks, maybe I, you know, I have to deserve love, I have to strive or try harder, I, I, I.

The self-obsession, it always, this original split to the subject, object, now everything is about me, and the world is a danger. The world is opposite, is something else than what I am. So I'm here, and everything else is out there, and it's scary, and it's frightening, and it, of course, it's not the totality anymore. So there's no relaxation in it. And reinforcing that subject-object identity, that relationship, is painful, but it's inevitable, because that's what we were doing all our lives. So until it gets really strongly embodied, and it causes a lot of suffering, it usually doesn't get questioned. So the suffering is the sense of discomfort is an invitation to look deeper.

To see what is it that is actually obscuring the Sat Chit Ananda. So it is a gift in a way. Because there are people who are just sliding, gliding through the life, with comparing themselves reasonably good, reasonably happy, and they never question. And that's okay, that's beautiful, good on them. But if we are here, and we are invited to question, that's the invitation to actually break through this conceptual ideas that we encapsulated ourselves in. Rather than just being free, unbound life. And Bob used to always say, everything is... Absolutely. Everything. Yes. If on the path of realizing who I am, the main veil is the illusion of the ego, the mind, the identification to it, how can those talks, are not reinforcing the attachment to a concept?

And this is the thing that came every time I come here, and like I said the last time, I face a paradox in me, between I understand that it doesn't fit. Because right now, the mind is speaking to us this very question. How can I make those talks, or even the quest, not an attachment to the illusion? It makes sense. Yes, it's a good question. Certainly. Thank you. Sorry Bob. What was it all? How, you know, asking questions and listening to these talks, may reinforce the attachment to the illusion, to the ego? They are reinforcing it. It may. How not to? How make it not to reinforce it?

How to go from philosophy to experience. It's not a philosophy. How to go from a philosophy, intellectual to experiential? Well, ask it. Here's the thing. You say it's happening to you. You say it's happening to me. And then you say, now that fellow tells me there is no me. Is he right or is he wrong? Now what do you believe this me to be? Have a look. He's speechless. So you can't find anything? It makes me hit paradox. Because right now, non-agile philosophy want to give the answer which it does believe or knows it's right, but it is not. Never mind about the paradox. You won't find it with a word.

You've given the right answer. The speechlessness. You won't find it with a word. Drop the word. You're left without finding anything. Where does that leave you? You haven't got a concept or a word. Have you disappeared? You've fallen apart? Are you present? Is there a presence there? You're not unaware? Clouds. Clouds on the way. Clouds, clouds come and go. So, but there's an awareness of. Yeah. Yeah. So you're present and aware. Yeah. Those clouds come and they... Any cloud fixated there? There's a big silence and the chatting inside. Point of speaking. Of speaking was the point of anything. Who would want to know? Me. Yeah.

You want to relate to me? But there is speaking and there is knowing. All these things are there. There is breathing, there is heart beating. Does any of it happen in your life? No. No. No. No. No. No. No. Is any of it happening to the me? The concept. Is there any point? You haven't got no point to relate it to. Has it stopped? Have you stopped breathing? Heart stopped... Thoughts stopped appearing? Have you ceased being? That's a word we put on it, but no. Awareness of being. You haven't ceased being. The only thing you can say about it is it just is. Is it not?

No, it is. There's nothing there. It's like I'm falling and I'm trying to grab something, but it's like an infinite thread, and as soon as I catch it, it falls down again. And when you ask a question, it's just blank. And...yes! Again, there is a bird. This damn bird always there. And yes! And this very bird is very connected with sadness. It's a very sad bird. Sadness is a sensation. Just like this tasting, touching, smelling, feeling. They're all sensations. Now, if it's a present sensation, and you're just having it right now, that sensation, you're labelled from a previous experience. It's a sadness. As soon as you do that, you're labelled from a previous experience.

You've carried yourself down with sadness. This is one's anger. This one's fear. What if you see that sensation that's coming? Another movement of energy. Just a pure expression. See it, look at it as fresh and new, as though it's happening to you for the first time, without the old label. As soon as you're labelled with the old label, you're relating it to some previous dead experience. See everything fresh and new, as though it's happening for the first time, exactly in this moment. So the original sensation was untainted before. The original sensation was untainted before mind. Before. Yeah, when you're all loaded down from the previous.

Before. When the first sensation, when you were first angry, did you know it was anger when you were a little kid? Parents told you, don't be angry or don't be fearful. As soon as we say, we're labelled with the old, this one comes up, this one's fear. As soon as you say that, you've loaded it down with all the previous fears you've had, and it becomes overwhelming. You see it's fresh and new, watch it and see, where's it gonna lodge? How can it stay? Which was the original. Yeah. Before all that happened. That was pure presence awareness, pure seeing, hearing, tasting, touching, smelling, thinking, feeling.

It's pure. Not low, but don't even need the old labels on it. Life itself. Addicted to thought. Then we got addicted to me. Yeah. Who is it that's sad? Can you find that me that's sad? Can you find that me? When you're actually looking, is that not, is not that me that's sad? Aren't both those things thoughts? The thought of me, and the thought sadness. If you dwell on that thought sadness, you start to feel sad. Cause thought, feeling and emotion, are linked. You gotta have the thought, to have the feeling, and the emotion. So who is it that's having that thought? Is it the me, that lives in memory, or projects into the future?

And is that me real? Have a look. I hear you, but this sounds as beautiful theory. This sounds as a beautiful mind game. But what I'm saying is, I'm trying to point, for you to have a look, now, right now, sitting there, close your eyes maybe, where is that me? Actually look for it in your body. Actually look for it. Where is it? And if you pause the thought, is it there? There is no answer to that, because it's yes and now. Yes and now. Yes, there is a feeling of it's there, and now I know it's not there. And again, it's a nice theory.

I understand the theory. How do you know it's not there? The basic of the concepts, the philosophy which is behind. I understand what I am, what I am not, how it... The mind gets to a certain extent, but I'm still confined. What happens if it stops just before it goes back to that theory, that memory of that theory, and just stops there? Who's confined? The problem of having all the answers. Yeah. That's actually if... The more... Sometimes it's a paradox, but the more intelligent you are, and this is, you know, you have a good understanding and grasp, and you know the answers, that's actually an obstacle, because now you know to say yes and no.

When she asks you to locate the me, you know to say yes and no, because you're smart, because... And, you know, the mind is saying, I know the answer, but the feeling is saying, hey, I really... I don't really want to go there, because, you know, I don't want to find the absence of me. I mean, this is ridiculous. Who would find it? But the truth is, there is a little easy shortcut if you actually follow the pointer that Jane gave you and put a location. Okay, there is just a feeling. No, no, there is no me. I know the answer. But there is a feeling.

Okay, where is the feeling? Is it here? Is it here? Is it here? How big is it? Is it like the size of a feast? Or is it maybe the size of a football? Where is that feeling? Because when you actually locate that feeling, now the next step is to see, okay, where are you locating it from? Because you are looking at that feeling. You found the feeling. You know there is no me, but there is something. Okay, but where are you looking from at that something? So now, as you look at that something, this is an object. That feeling is an object. And you are the one who is looking.

So you are not that feeling anymore. You are looking. And where are you looking from? Are you looking somewhere from behind? Are you looking from the front? Locating that feeling. So when you, if you are able to locate that one who is looking, maybe here or maybe there, okay, that's, I am the one who is looking. So I am not the object. Now, if you are the one who is looking, you are looking at that feeling. You are the one who is looking. Locate it. How big is it? Is it like a cloud? Or is it like a point in consciousness? Or what is it?

Just investigate who is locating. When you pinpoint. Who is investigating? Yes, that's the next stop. And that is the mind answering all those questions. But did you actually... And the mind wants to try to make believe it is not the mind. And there is this whole game. It's like the movie Inception. If you have seen it, you are looking to one dream, which brings another one, which brings another one. And it feels a bottomless pit. When I am there, what is the sense of me? And I know it is the mind answering the question. And as soon as I try to get beyond the mind, I know it is another layer of the mind answering the question, pretending to not be the mind.

And that is why you do location exercise. Because if you do it, yes, you are totally right. It is bottomless pit. If you are looking for, okay, mind is answering, the mind is answering yes. But the moment you start locating it, you will end up with incapacity of locating. You know, the space, when you look who is looking, is going to enlarge and get more cloudy and more unlocatable. And if you... There is a bottom line to this one. It doesn't go forever. It is not a bottomless pit. The moment you locate the one who is looking at the feeling, and then you see that this is kind of like much bigger space, who is aware of that mind?

It is a much bigger space. It will be yet bigger space. And the experiential understanding at the bottom of investigation, it may be two steps back for you, it may be ten, is absolutely unlocatable, unlimited space. And now, you can actually experience yourself as that limitless space, locating some cloud of awareness and some ball size of fist size of the feelings. But those things are only content and you, on the last step, completely collapse into nothingness. You are not the mind locating, doing, labeling anymore. You are completely as the mind, you collapse into the nothingness, into space. And now you end up in what we call non-conceptual awareness or cognizing emptiness.

The emptiness with the capacity of knowing its content is not the mind anymore because you can't locate it. It doesn't have shape, form or any sort of, it doesn't, it doesn't really exist. It's emptiness that has capacity of knowing. And so then you know, you know you're the context, not the content. It's a knowing. It's not a thinking. So imagine that you're a railway station and the trains keep going, going in and out, in and out, in and out. Does the railway station ever change? It's always there. Right? And so, you know, you've got to get on the train to have a problem. Right? You've got to get on that train.

But the thoughts just keep coming and going. But you've got to get on the train for it to cause a whole bunch of dis-ease within you. You've got to get on it. Does the railway station ever think it's a train? The railway station never thinks it's a train. It just is. Right? So the mind is the one that's causing the dis-ease. Like you say, you know, it is the mind. Yeah, you're right. And there's knowingness and there's intelligence. There's knowingness and there's intelligence. The knowingness is absolutely not dependent on intelligence. At all. Without that knowingness, the intelligence couldn't be either. So, oh, I can so relate to what you're going through.

I really can. I totally can. So, be it instead of think it. Be it. But you need to look more. You actually need to look closer. Because you're caught up in the mind, witnessing the mind, witnessing the mind, witnessing... That's that bottomless pit that you're in. That's what you're talking about. Okay? But there's an awareness. And you're... That awareness that is there, that is aware of the mind there, you're labeling that awareness thinking. It's not. It's knowing. It's just a knowing. And there's no split in that knowing. There's no resistance. There's no confusion. Confusion. Confusion in that knowing. So... It never changes like the railway station.

The last time we talked, you know, you said something really profound. And the word you used is surrender. And you were talking about surrender. Instead of talking about surrender, surrender. Like surrender. Leave it. Leave it. Leave the content alone. Just leave the content alone. And if you leave the content alone, you won't disappear. You will still be. And you don't have to think to be. Reside in the being. Reside in the beingness. And note that what you are doing, that awareness that you experience, that you are still calling that thought. It's not. But you're also saying, yes, but thoughts just keep coming up, you know.

And I get, you know, I'm... Thoughts just keep... You're still involved in the content. Totally involved in the content. And the biggest thought is the thought of you. And... And... You're so close to exhausting your own intellect. You are so close. So close to exhausting it. It's doing, it's doing you in. It's totally doing you in. You're so close. Now, you can either go on and suffer more until that surrender will just happen and you'll collapse. That's what happened for me. I was very, very stubborn. And I just had, I collapsed. Everything just collapsed. And I was in this state of profound grief at the time.

Profound grief. Sadness, if you want to call it that. Isn't that what everybody's searching is going through? The same thing, really, what is going through? Well, here's... No, it's different. Here's... Yeah, yeah. Every time. I'll leave you with this. It's still... It's still different. I'll leave you with this. We've all done this before, at least based on my experience too. When something used to be important to you, or trying to figure something out, or need an answer, and then all of a sudden something popped in, never mind. It's just not that important to me anymore. And so I've practiced it where something comes up with the mind, never mind my mind at that point.

You get a little plus a little of never minding to know the answer to something because that's the habit coming around and wanting you to figure it out. And when you let go, trying to figure it out, you never mind it anymore the same way. I have to go, but I just want to send love to you all. Love you all. Thanks, Mark. Thank you. See you on the non-existent path. Okay. Not if I see you. I'll see you soon. Okay. Bye-bye. See you soon. Bye-bye, Mark. Now, while all this has been going on, have you stopped breathing? No. No. No. No. No. No. No.

No. No. No. No. No. No one around yet? Hmm? Times? No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. Have your heart stopped beating? How's it still going on? Stopped feeling, seeing, hearing, tasting, touching, smelling? All that's going on spontaneously and naturally. Do you have to relate any of those things to the mind, to thinking? To speak about it, Yes, you've got to bring the mind back in, speak about it, speak about it, say words about it. But see what's going on in that body without the thought. And put, see, make thought secondary if it's going on in the background, but see what's going on. You realise there's lots more that you don't even recognise.

Cells being replaced, food being digested, blood coursing around the body. What's doing all that? Is it the mind? We put so much on the mind, I think the mind's doing everything. If I don't think this, I don't think that, it'll be the end of it. But all the mind does is translate it into concepts, words, ideas. What's your next thought going to be? Have you thought that one up? No. Or does it arise? Observe the absence of self. And I'm talking about me, the self-identity. Observe the absence of that, and at the same time, watch. Yourself being lived at the same time. Did you do that?

Did Sebastian do that? No. Is Sebastian responsible for the hearing right now? No. Is Sebastian responsible for the seeing right now? No. The smelling, the tasting, the touching, the thinking, the six things. You're responsible for any of that. Like it's staring you in the face. It's staring you in the face, but you're still caught in the content or the intellect needing or wanting to know. And eventually that'll smash you. Or there'll be a gentle shift away from observing that to observing everything else. My God, everything else. Why is that so important? And the observation of that, in the observation of that, we miss everything else.

Everything else. Everything else. Even the plain, obvious fact, we're being lived. Or you're being lived. You can see that for yourself. On a daily basis. Second by second. Minute by minute. You can see that. And you are the life. Not the thoughts, the feelings, or the emotions. You are the life itself. It's living, enabling that thinking, feeling, tasting, tasting, something to happen. Same life that's functioning in this universe. Causing everything to happen. Like the power in the computer. What information are you going to get out of the computer if the power's not on? How many thoughts can a corpse have? How many feelings? Give credit to where credit is due.

It's the very life of you. And that's one life. It's the same life that expresses and patterns everything. And there is really no answer in thinking. This is, the answer is not in the mind. We kind of feel that the answer is going to, the profound realization or enlightenment is going to be just a magnificent thought that will make everything fall into places. But this is not a thought. There is no such a thought. So all content of the thinking is basically just clouds. And the answer is the sky, which is always there. The sense of presence is always there. It never goes away. Even if there is thousands of clouds on it.

Feelings, emotions, thoughts. But the sky is always there. That's why we tend to look in the intellect, we tend to look in the mind, because, gosh, that's the conditioning. That's just a habit. But the answer is not there. Nobody has ever found it there. The answer is just too close to your eyes to see it. It's like, it's empty space. It's the awareness of presence. Like you're always alive, aware of presence. And that's the answer. But it's kind of for the mind, and we tend to look with the mind because it gives us such a thrill to understand the world. So we look with the mind on that awareness of presence, and we say, come on, that's nothing.

That's not interesting. That's not juicy. It's empty. Give me an object. Mind is objectifying everything. It can only see the objects, even the eyes. They don't see space, they see objects. The ears, they don't hear silence, they hear sounds. But the answer is that silence, that space, that awareness of presence that doesn't have any texture to actually taste it. Because if it did have texture, it would be just another object. So it is pure subjectivity, pure subjectivity of existence. The one who is aware of the awareness of everything, it cannot be an object, it cannot be an idea, it cannot be a thought, it cannot be a state of mind or the experience of bliss.

It cannot be anything that has the beginning and an end. So it has to be something that is always there, since the day you were born and before that. Since something that was there when you were five years old. The presence, everything else changed. The body changed, the thoughts changed, the self-definition changed. So this is not it. Every thought, every... If there was a beautiful idea, we would all know it. But, yeah, they are beautiful ideas, but they come and go. They're just another cloud. So it must be something that underlies the idea. If the idea is written in a book, that will be the blank page on which it is written.

If the idea is presented in the film, that will be a blank screen on which it is presented. And if the idea is the Maya, the expression of the life essence, the answer would be the space in which it expresses, the stage in which it appears. And you are that. Because that's the only thing that doesn't ever change, doesn't ever come and go. It's just the limitation we put upon ourselves as the life, as the space, as the pure presence that doesn't have any boundaries on it. The original split, the duality, comes from labeling this as subject and that as object. But before that conceptual division comes up, when Bob is saying that the mind, the thinking process, or the seeing process, is just one activity, and now that I am the subject of seeing, and you are the object that I'm seeing.

But if there was no process, no process of seeing, subject objects would be irrelevant. So they're not really two things. There is no me and the world, the subject of seeing and the object of what I'm seeing. There isn't. There's just one activity. Everything is one activity. Nothing is divided or disconnected from the other. Just like the body, your body is not disconnected from the space. It's breathing air all the time. It's drinking water. It's made of matter. Everything is interconnected. It's only the mind that comes up and divides. I am the thinker of my thoughts. I am the subject of what I'm looking at.

I'm seeing this. And it is necessary for the Maya to actually get the glimpse of self-knowing. Because if there was no subjects, but just objects, there would be no knowing. The knowing implies the subject, the knower. So it is an illusion. It is a illusion in Maya. Because the knowing is happening. But in the way it expresses as duality, to have a glimpse of itself, can be seen through. It can be. And now the life is looking exactly the same. The seeing happens exactly the same. The thinking, everything. But there is no taking credit. There is no me seeing. There is no me thinking. There is no commentary saying that all that thoughts I've chosen, heart and hair, I'm beating and I'm growing.

There is no commentary going in the mind. And life looks just as it does for the cat or dog or tree. But if we try to get this answer as a beautiful, enlightening idea that will liberate me from suffering, and the suffering is conceptual, so naturally I'm looking for remedy, also conceptual, it's never going to happen. It's just not going to happen. It's not there. The answer is when you stop thinking there is nothing wrong when you stop thinking. When there is no thought, like Jane is saying, when you don't embark the train of thought, there is no problem. Your railway station, your pure space, space in which they come and go.

Every problem is a problem coming from the concept. If I'm the body, all my problems are the bodily problems. If I'm the mind, they're all, but they're all assumptions. I'm assuming myself to be limited individual, the body or the mind. If I don't have that thought, I can't conceive of the problem. Even if there is a pain in the body, and I don't have the thought that there shouldn't be any pain, I don't have problem. So the answer is beyond the mind, the non-conceptual, non-conceptual awareness, pure awareness of being, of presence. And as Bob started, we're all aware of that being. So the problem comes only with overlay of thinking, of dreaming, of imagining on top of that basic screen.

So now just seeing that overlay of imagination on that basic screen, now we can enjoy it. Now we can laugh at it. Because we know it's just, it's just the content, it's just Maya, it's just a dream. And yes, you're totally right. It sounds like, what a theory. Now I'm not going to be irresponsible if I believe it, but I'm not going to believe it. We don't want to believe anything. We want to wake up from believing. We want to actually investigate and know it for the fact. And the only thing that you can know for the fact is the being. There's nothing else you can actually know for fact.

And non-duality, the truth of your own being is the truth of your own being before there's any thought. So the mind might name non-duality as the philosophy that essentially... Practical. It's actually, in reality, there is only oneness. In science, there is only oneness. You can break everything down to no-thing. So it's not actually a philosophy. It's actually the truth of your own being and then what appears upon it. That mind that appears upon it. And then the mind claims it. You see? And so the biggest claiming is, is, is your name Sebastian. Sebastian claiming the mind. That's just another thought. And that mind appears upon that presence, that perfect presence that you are.

That omniscient, omnipotent oneness that we all are. That's not a theory. That's a fact. Sometimes a wee sense of self-protection, but yeah, or just a... Catch myself halfway through our ownership thoughts and most of it's almost just about ownership and then a bit of content too. And that is that, yeah. This will sound really basic, okay? But this understanding is really basic. Can there be an object without a subject? Can there be an object without a subject? And what you were referring to earlier when you were saying, yeah, but like, what are we doing? We're all talking about stuff. You know, like, why are we doing that?

You'll note that not many people in a group like this, even Bob, will talk about the non-dual state. We don't communicate it. Why? You can't. You absolutely can't. It's not possible. So what happens in these meetings and many meetings like this around the world is what does get discussed is what we're not. That can be discussed. What we are can't. But what we're not can absolutely be discussed. And it's recognizing that. Another way of putting that is it's not possible to know what you are, what you actually are, from what you're not. You've got a keen intellect. Does that resonate? You can't know what you are from what you're not.

You're like the dream character in the dream wanting to know when you're asleep, I'm talking about, and you're dreaming, your character's in that dream. It's like the dream character in the dream wanting to know, wanting to experience what it's like to be awake when the body wakes up in the morning. What happens to the dream character when the body wakes up in the morning? It was in the dream. Can that dream character experience or know what it's like to be awake? And what happens to the dream character when the body does wake up? Pfft. Gone. Gone. Until the next night and you go to sleep again and another dream character will pop up in your dream and it seems real.

There's mountains and feelings and fear and sex. All sorts of stuff that can happen in the dream that feels real in the dream. Real in this dream. Feels real in this dream. It's recognizing that it's a dream. So all we can do is, to the best of our ability, point for you to look for yourself. That's it. That's it. That's it. What I love about this is that it's not spiritual. It's not a philosophy. And it's not a teaching. What we do is, what we do, to the best of our ability, is point and get you to look for yourself. Then it's, then it's yours.

Not a belief. Yeah, I did a philosophy degree and I went through all my notes and one, one thing I found was that there was a belief held by these people that you can look it out of the mind. And so even here, if that seems to creep in and there's a grasp in any of that, when we come back to non-duality, that belief isn't held to be the, the foundation. Sorry. But it's not going to be rotten here. You don't know it's fear of letting go? Fear of letting go? Yeah, of course. It's all part of it. It's a, that's another concept. Because there's so much in the head.

Yeah, that it's got fear of letting go. Yeah, yeah. Don't label it fear. Don't label it fear. There will be just a vibration. Yeah, but what I'm saying is because it's so much, you know, intellectual, then it's that fear of letting go, like it's like you don't have control anymore. It's more a fear, it's more a fear of not understanding. Why can't I get this? Terry, there was something you said before and I just want to clarify something you said. So the me character can never understand who or what it is because it would always understand it through the the relativity of itself. Yeah. Yeah, me character is an object.

It's not a subject. It's not the subject. If you can be aware of the me character, which you are, you're aware of your own me character. If you're aware of your own me character, it's got to be objective. The problem is we pay no attention whatsoever to the subject. To the subject. We assume, here's the problem, we assume that the subject is the me. That's where we get stuck, right there. That's the object. Yep. Right there is where we get stuck. And then that object's looking for other objects. Yeah. Identification. Yeah. Whenever anyone sees the me character, one sentence at a time pops up. There's no database or anything else showing up.

It's just a sentence. The latest one that mentioned me. And that's it. That's it. I've been practicing what you said last week about when you do something, you know, to sort of go back and see if you actually made the decision to do it, like he was saying to you before. Right? And you can say that, you know, you're not making a decision to do it. If you can just catch yourself, I mean, I'm not one who just started to do this, but I've noticed that you didn't catch yourself, that, no, I didn't get up, I didn't make a decision to get up from the chair, let's say, or, you know, to put the TV on.

It just happens. Or scratch your arm. Or whatever, yeah. Or vote for that person. Or even cough. You know, it just comes. Yeah. But you can at least start to observe it happening here. I mean, you know, you can, absolutely, you can observe it with thought because if we watch, the thoughts do just pop up from God only knows where. They hang around for a little while. Then they move on as they get bigger. And then they move on as they get bigger. And then they move on as they get bigger. And then they move on as they get bigger. And then they move on and they get replaced by other thoughts.

There's always this pattern of thoughts that goes through. And every now and then, we, you know, we might experience a blank moment, like a pause of a thought. You know, which is quite profound when, when that is experienced. So, we can be aware of that. But you can, literally, you can be aware of your, your own body. That just happens. Thoughts just happen. But so does this. You know, And you can watch it throughout the course of the day. You can watch it. It's pretty amusing, actually, when you sit back and just watch what it does. And it's already going on anyway. The heart's beating, we're breathing, blood circulating, food's being digested.

There's all sorts of stuff that's already going on. With the magnificence of all that that's going on in the body, we then claim ownership of doership. Come on. Like, really, when you look at it, it's absurd. And literally, you can watch your body acting, reacting, responding, doing all sorts of really weird stuff throughout the course of the day. You claim some stuff, and you claim your eye colour, but you don't claim your Z. But you can literally watch it. You can watch it just like you watch that. So we're told you're not the body mind. Well, okay. That's the first place we generally look is the mind stuff.

Okay. Be aware of thoughts coming and going. That's usually the first place we look. But we're not the body mind. Watch the body too. Watch it just doing its thing. And it does. It does. And I know Bob said it a million times. If I was this, my next primary concern would be that I took my next breath. That'd be my next absolute primary concern. I don't think about it. It just happens. So who's doing it? What's doing it? What intelligence is doing that? What is animating this body, keeping it alive? That life essence? Like, what's doing that? Me? Come on. I'm not that smart.

I'm not that smart. There's too much going on. Someone tells you to breathe in a certain way. You might catch that that was just a thing that came up too. Yeah. One guy calls it the animated cadaver. Well, the action figure is the body. Like, it's a body with a dead body and somebody's animating. You know, pulling the strings. Sorry? Animated avatar. Oh, whatever. Great unread one. Well, time's short. Time's short. As usual. That's no time. I should have been that long. Too late. Time's short.