Sailor Bob Non Duality - Train of thoughts 13 Jan 2019

Welcome everyone, so maybe we start from the names. Oh, Kenny, Adrian, Daniel, Tommy, Dave, Justin, Tess, Lena, Rita, Mary, Philip, Mark, Terry. And Kurt and Bob. Yeah, good morning all. Well you know the routine, same old, same old, the same old, same old. And there couldn't be any other way if we're talking about non-duality, one without a second, not even one. All point is to the so-called way which they tell you in the Taoist, the great way is no way. The Tao that can be spoken about is not the Tao. So we continually point to that and ask you to see for yourself because nobody's going to give you anything.

We can't teach you anything and we can't tell you anything. That's all we can do is point toward and ask you to look to where we're pointing to, to see for yourself. Because only you yourself can recognize it. If somebody could have taught you this and all the scriptures and religions are going around, you'd have understood it before, long before now. Because we all know how hard we've tried, and that's that. But there's one thing that we can't do. When we come to understand that the seeker itself is the problem. And if it is one, nothing can be added to it. That's why they call it the great perfection in Buddhism.

The great perfection is non-conceptual awareness. Awareness without any thoughts, concepts or ideas. Though all these things still continue to appear on or in that awareness, whichever you like to put it. But the appearance is not reality. So, when we say pointers, it's just like a signpost. A signpost might point you towards Bourke Road and Whitehorse Road, where you are right now. But it wasn't when you looked at that pointer. And the pointer wasn't it. But if you followed the way it was pointing to, it took you to it. So we need to see this for ourselves. And what I'm pointing to is nothing new. You'll see it in all the great traditions of Buddhism.

It's not a new thing. It's a new thing. It's a new practice. It's been around for so many years, it's been around for so many traditions. It's been around for so many thousands of years, if you like to put time on it. They're all based on that initial reality. Hebrews they say, the lord thy God is one God. There is none other. The Muslims say, there is no god, but Allah. But God, Allah, is his neighbor. Christians say, it's omnipresence, omnipotence, omniscience. Buddhists say, awareness. Hindus say, Sat-Shita-Nanda-Dharma-Ripa, the five factors, existence, consciousness, bliss, name and form. They call it the great perfection or the absolute, other terms they use.

Now if it's the great perfection, what can you add to the perfect? If you added anything to the perfect, it wouldn't be perfect, would it? What can you take away from the perfect? The same, if you took anything away from the perfect, it wouldn't be perfect. Another way to put it, the absolute, what can be added to the absolute? It wouldn't be absolute if you could add anything to it. It wouldn't be absolute if you could take anything away. So we say, start from that fact. But where do we usually start from? We start from the belief we've taken on that we are these personal entities, the persona, the mask, the separate entity, the individual.

And have a look at that word, persona. That's what it comes from an ancient language that means, the mask. Pointing out with this conceptual image we've got about ourselves and taking it to be real. Like I'm Bob, I'm Australian, I'm a good fella, I'm this, that, and that, I'm a human being, and blah, blah, blah. And I believe that. And that's reinforced by schools, society, parents and everything around you. 99.9% of the world are coming from that point. But down through the ages, there were people that were like that. And that's what it's all about. It's about the people that are realising it, recognising it.

And that's what the scriptures are formed around, what these people are saying. But it hasn't been left like that. The followers coming on have added to it, something to it, and corrupted it. And they've got all sorts of dogma and creeds and things on it. It's lost sight of its simplicity and true nature. There is only that. And that's what a lot of them tell you. The great fiction, or the Maha Vakya, the great mantra is, I am that. Thou art that. This is that. And innately, you already know that. Because you say, that's the chair, that's the carpet, that's the tree, that's the flower, that's me, that's you.

Everything is that. But what have we done? We've corrupted it, or distorted it, by putting labels, images, words we've learnt about it. And doesn't it tell you in the Bible, in the beginning was the Word, the Word was with God, the Word was God. That's all that God is, is the Word. Nothing was made without Him, without the Word. All things were made by Him, by the Word. And have a look at that. Haven't you put labels on everything in this manifestation? And the thing that you are, a person, you call yourself a person, an individual, a human being. And you give the name and the shape.

And take all these things to be the real. And when you understand the Word, it's not the Word. It's not the real. The Word can never be the real. Take the word water. Drink the Word. Swim in the Word. Wash in the Word. If you can. The word fire. Cook with the word fire. Burn yourself with the word fire. Warm yourself. So you see, those things are not real. They're just labels we put on things and descriptions. What's this word I or me? What do you call I? Isn't this persona, this personal image you believe yourself to be? I'm Bob, an Australian, blah, blah, blah.

Putting all those concepts onto the I-ness. What's the I? I symbolises one, doesn't it? When you write it as a figure one. And they call it Satyananda, existence, consciousness, loving to be. Nama, remember? Have a look at that. Anyone who is not existing right now, you must realise, yes, I'm existing. I'm not existing. I'm existing. Anyone who is conscious right now. And you'll be, no, I'm not unconscious at the moment. I'm conscious. Anyone who's not happy to be right now. And everybody wants to be. If somebody were to come up and knock you off right now, you wouldn't be too happy about it, would you?

You'd want to be. You'd resist it. So you already are that Satyananda. That being, knowing and loving. Being, knowing and loving to be. And the Nama-rupa, that's the conceptual image you've taken of yourself. Nama is name. And rupa is form. The form of this body and the name you put on it, which they tell you in the scriptures, Nama-rupa is Maya. It's illusion. It's a phenomenal manifestation. Look up your dictionary, look up the word phenomena. The definition of dictionary in the phenomena is that which appears to be. So you, I, and everything else in this manifestation is only appearing to be so. And it can all be broken down.

If you put it under a microscope, you'll see it's more than broken down into that energy. But you can't even see energy or tell me what that is. You can't grasp the wind in your fist. And you can only see the activity of the wind when it's moving something. So you can't see this innate intelligence energy that you are. That's what I call it rather than use the term God. Because if you use the term God, you'll get confused with what we're saying, what I'm pointing to. You won't understand it. Because you're related to what your belief of God is. And each one will have a different belief and concept about their idea of what God is.

We use the term intelligence energy. And that's only a label too. That's not it. But you've got to use words to try and describe it. Put the description on it which is not the described. Or the moment. The moment. The map is not the territory. None of those things are so. And we're trying to describe something right now. But the description I'm giving it is not what it's described. But if you're open to it and listening to it and using the proper listening, then it might resonate with you. You'll start to grasp what we're saying. And when I talk about listening, there is an art to listening if you look at it.

What we usually listen with, we try to listen with our heads. What are you saying? What are you thinking? What are you doing? And head to head, it's not going to get you anywhere. It's going to get into your clash. What happens if you move it down to what we call the heart? I'm not talking about your physical heart. I'm talking about the core of your beingness. The center of the spirit. And you know what heart to heart is. When you've had, talking to somebody who you've had very serious, very serious conversation with it, and you'll say, you know, they were in trouble or something, you're trying to help them, you'll relate it later on, you'll say, my heart went out to them.

You didn't really know what you were saying because your heart, you opened up. It was a different way of listening. Instead of listening with the head. So if you're listening to what I'm saying with your head, you can pull it apart. Because anything in this manifestation can be, or any thoughts, concepts, can be pulled apart. And they all have been if you look at them all. And will continue to be. But in your own direct and immediate experiences, can any one of you say, I am not right now? You can't. And isn't the hearing, seeing, tasting, touching, smelling, breathing, heart beating, hair and fingernails growing, food being digested, isn't that happening naturally and spontaneously?

So that's what I call the intelligence. The intelligence that's functioning. And the very functioning of it, the activity of it, is energy. So it's the activity of knowing. And intelligence is knowing something right now. When I'm talking about intelligence, I'm not talking about your intellect. I'm talking to the natural intelligence that's going out there in the universe. Have a look out there in the universe and get your cue from there. See this earth is rolling around the sun right now. Seasons are coming and going. Tides coming in and out. Planets moving. Flies moving. Forming, shaping. Volcanoes erupting. Tsunamis coming. Ice ages and all other things are all constantly happening.

There's no old guy up in the sky there pulling strings that's making it happen. It'd be like the belief in Santa Claus. We think Santa Claus is going to climb down every chimney in every house in the world in one particular light. It's impossible. It's the same with the so-called gods you believe you are. You can't be everywhere at once though. But the innate intelligence that you are, which forms you, shaped and formed you and is living you and expressing through you right now, that has always been there. And the Buddha told us that a couple of years ago. He called it a cognising emptiness.

That's the emptiness. The basic screen in which it's all appearing on is that space-like awareness or emptiness and the silence, the stillness. That's the basic screen. That doesn't change. But the content is constantly changing. And Buddha called it a cognising emptiness. Not that we are cognising the emptiness. We think we are, but it's not. It's the emptiness that's cognising through this pattern and through everything else. It's a cognising emptiness. And he made the statement then that emptiness is form. It's pointing out that basic screen, which is no thing, so it's clear and empty. It's patterning, it's vibrating and patterning, shaping, forming, all these forms, shapes and forms.

The tree, the flower, you, me, the planets, the stars, anything you can mention them. The bacteria, the viruses, all the rest of it. The whole lot. There's nothing but those vibrating patterns of energy, shaping and forming and expressing. But it's all Maya. It can't be anything other than Maya because there's no time for it to exist in. When you investigate the concept of time, you'll see that time is always a concept. And ask yourself the simple question, is there a past if I don't think about it? Pause the thought for a minute, or leave the thought behind for a moment, have a look at what can you say without a thought.

Can you say there's a past or a future? But you'll say, I was in the past. I'll say, well try and actually live a moment ago. Everything in the past. Go back and live yesterday, or last week. We'd all love to be able to do that and get rid of some of the things we didn't like and change them. We can't. Can't live yesterday. But you can recall it. You can recall it by bringing it into this moment. And the only actuality you're giving it is what you're giving it in this moment. Because nobody in this room can tell me what you thought a minute ago now, unless you recall it.

Have a look at that. See whether it's true or not. Test it out for yourself, that's all you can do. You don't have to believe me or anybody else. But these things are there for you to test out and see for yourself. And in the recognizing and seeing for yourself, they are yours then. They are yours. They are yours. You moved out of the seemly illusionary mire into the true nature that you are. And the recognition of that clarity, the things that appear and disappear, you know, they're just like clouds in the sky. And look at a cloud in the sky. You go down that side on a cloudy day.

Would you say the sun's not in the sky? Well, you've investigated. You've looked at it. You know the sun doesn't leave the sky. The cloud comes and goes. When you ask yourself, what forms a cloud, you realize the sun itself forms the cloud. The sun doesn't set out to form a cloud. It doesn't know anything about the cloud, never will know anything about the cloud. But through its natural self-shiningness, this radiation of the sun, what's it do? It evaporates water. And what happens? The water rises, cools down and condenses and forms a cloud. Later on it'll change again, set it forming a cloud, it might bring it down as rain or blow the cloud away.

But through the self-shiningness of the sun, the radiation of the sun has formed that cloud. And through that same radiance of that pure intelligence, it has formed you, me and everything else in this manifest day. We believe we are this body-mind, this person. Are you the body? And you know innately you're not the body. Innately you already know it, even if you haven't really questioned it yet, and you take yourself to be the body. Because you say, my body. Don't you say, my cat, my car, my house, my cat, my dog, my coat, my hat. You know damn well you're not the car, the coat, the hat, you're not those things.

Maybe if you investigate you're not the body either. And the same with my mind. You think my mind tells me this and I've got to you know, utilize my mind and blah blah blah with my mind. Show me a mind. Can anybody show me a thing called mind? Is there such a thing as mind? You realize you can't find anything you can say this is mind. There's nothing there apart from thought. And is thought your mind? Or if thought is, mind composes out of thought, which particular, and you are the mind, which particular thought would you be? The primary thought is that I thought I am, the knowing that you are, that expresses the thought I am.

And if you were that thought, you wouldn't lose sight of it. You'd want to hang onto it, because if you lost that thought and you were, lost that thought and you were the mind, that would be the finish for you. But don't you gladly give it up every night when you go to sleep, give up the thinking? And it's not the finish for you. You wake up in the morning. You must recognize from that that you're not the thought. And who's the thinker if you think you are the thought? Again, we're related to this conceptual image. I or me, we think we think. This conceptual image.

But can the thought I think, I think think a thought? Or is thinking happening spontaneously and naturally of itself? And you realize that when you investigate. You'll see that thinking's coming up spontaneously and it's been related to me. I think. I think this particular thought. So what have you done? You've separated the thinking into the subject, the thinker, and the object, the thought, which is dualism. And we're pointing out, and made it, there's absolutely no duality and non-duality. There's no duality in this manifestation. And not even any non-duality. Because as we pointed out, it's all illusion, it's all Maya. It's only seemingly so. There's nothing solid about any of it.

So we divide it into subject, object. That's where all our problems start. Problems of relationship. You say you are this body, and you, when did you begin? You'll tell me, I was born. Well have a look at that. Can anyone in this room actually remember your birth? Again, you don't have to be a Rhodes Scholar to say you can't remember your birth. You can't remember or recall anything until you're about two, two and a half years old. When the capacity of reasoning developed in you, and you learned words. I said it earlier, in the beginning was the word. That's when you began. You can't say you began it.

But for you, the only thing back to your father's years you can remember is your birth. It's not your birth, it's when you learned words about two when the reasoning started. Well how did you begin? We'll have a look at that. We'll investigate that. Go back as far as your father and your mother. That animating intelligence energy, the activity of knowing. In that father, the energy vibrating through him, in that father, formed through the food eaten and the breath, the prana, the breath, the food, formed in that pattern, a little microscopic particle called a sperm. You can't see it with your naked eyes, that's all.

So what do you put under a microscope? The same in your mother, that animating life as in your mother, again through the prana and the food, enabled in that pattern, an egg or an ovum to form. Another microscopic particle. Both of those particles were fused with the innate intelligence, the same intelligence energy that you are today. So the ovum knew, the egg knew what to do. It attached itself to the wall of the uterus. It wasn't floating around accidentally. And the sperm did the same thing. It knew what to do. It swam to the ovum, put it under a microscope and you'll see it can swim.

It's a fuse with intelligence. If it had no intelligence in life, it wouldn't be able to do it. And it knew where to swim to. To swim to the ovum and penetrate it. It knew what to do when it got there. And when those two came together, those two cells combining, innate intelligence and innate energy doubled that cell from the genes or whatever it was in the body, doubled them again and again. And what happened? The little embryo, the little fetus began to form. What were you doing about it then? Didn't you say I'd better grow a hand or an arm? First of all, you'd want to grow a brain, wouldn't you?

Or an eye or something like that. But you didn't and you couldn't as the person do anything about that at all. But the life energy knew what was happening. It knew what was necessary. And it was doing that for nine months growing it. You had nothing to do with it again as the person. When you came out, did you say, now I'm out I've got to take my first breath, I've got to fasten onto the nipple and suckle? You didn't. The innate intelligence knew what to do then. And with the age of your parents and other things, at about two, two and a half, the capacity of reasoning.

You didn't know your life. You were just functioning spontaneously and naturally without any words, without any labels. You were seeing, you were hearing, you were breathing, your heart was beating, your hair and fingernails growing, food being digested. If you were hungry, you'd cry. If you were happy, you'd laugh or do whatever. You'd kick and do all sorts of things. But the livingness was spontaneously happening in that pattern. Two, two and a half, parents fussing around you, the capacity of reasoning developed in the human form. And that's a capacity in these human forms that's much better, greater than that. It's much better than capacity in other birds, animals and insects.

But they have different capacities that are more developed than our capacity of reasoning is. A bird, for instance, can see. And eyesight is much better than yours or mine. It can fly. We can't do that naturally. But through the capacity of reasoning, we learn to build ourselves eyeglasses, binoculars, telescopes, things that enable us to see. And again, through the capacity of reasoning, we've been able to build planes, helicopters, balloons, whatever, enable us to fly. A chameleon can change colour. It has the capacity of changing colour. We haven't got that capacity. Other animals, birds, insects, they form through chrysalis, through eggs, eye gives that grow in this chrysalis, in this cocoon and hatch out into butterflies or moths with all those beautiful colours on it.

Do you think there's any personal entity doing any of that stuff? Or any of it doing it on their own? Or is it all a spontaneous natural functioning? The seed falls into the ground, gets a bit of warmth on it, bit of water, bit of light. What's it do? It sprouts. And in that seed, there is a tree. Grows, sends its roots down into the earth, grows the sap running down and out. Sprouts will grow on it, then leaves, flowers and fruits will come out of that tree. Do you think the tree's doing any of it? It's that life, that intelligence energy that's living a lot of it.

You can call it God if you like, but don't get locked into the idea that God's somebody up there in the sky that's going to beat the shit out of you if you do the wrong thing. And give you praise if you do the right thing. It's not whatsoever. That's the natural functioning. And when a lot of these so-called things that get us into trouble are recognised, what they are, they'll fall away, and you won't get into so much trouble. Because the innate intelligence will guide you, it'll lead you, it's living you and growing you as it's done ever since. And with this capacity of reasoning, with the parents fussing around, we begin to learn words.

It's a useful capacity. So it's a useful capacity for these human patterns to be, have a bigger sense than reasoning and other things. Or the room around you wouldn't be here. All the technology wouldn't be here. Nothing would be here without that capacity of reasoning. But the problem is we take it to be personal. I did it. I made this. I invented this. But could you have lifted a finger, turned a screw, drawn a line or done anything if that life essence wasn't flowing through that body? We've made computers through the capacity of reasoning. But look at that computer. It's got tons of information in it.

But if you haven't got the power turned on, what are you going to get out of it? Nothing whatsoever. It's the same with this body. If not that power, that life essence, it's suffusing it and functioning through it. How many thoughts can you have? How many lines can you draw? How many screws can you fix? Paint? What can you invent? You've got all those organs in it. You've got the brain, the heart, the lungs, the liver and all these organs. But without that life essence suffusing it, what good is it? It's just a corpse. So it's the life essence that's doing everything, utilizing this pattern to appear through and express through.

Do what it innately points to. It takes you on the search to find it, to recognize itself and be with itself and understand itself. Then you will have understanding of this functioning, this universe and everything in it. And recognize it. It makes a big difference in life. With this capacity of reasoning, when I learn words, I learn words like I and me. Parents tell me, you little Johnny, you're a good boy, you're this, that, that. And they tell it. And they talk about I and me. And you learn words like I and me. And you start to reason, well, I am this little Johnny. This is me.

Parents tell me I am. And I'm little Johnny and I'm a good boy. This is me. So we add on to that I thought, which you can't do much with the I thought. We add on to that I thought events, experiences and conditioning, things that have happened to us over the years, added on to it. I'm Bob and I'm a good fellow. I'm not so good. This happened to me. I had a bad childhood, blah, blah, blah. All these concepts, which are now dead images, are added on to that life form. And the energy of belief goes into it, reinforced by my parents, my school, my society and all the people around me.

And I start to reinforce it myself because a lot of people haven't looked at this stuff. So I formed this conceptual image of what I believe myself to be. And this image is the self-center. It becomes the self-center, the static point where everything is related to, or the reference point where everything is referred to, or the me, or the ego. The me is the ego. And they tell you in the scriptures, ego is the problem. Stamp on it, kill it, get rid of it some way or another. Not realizing that it never existed. There's nothing that can say that this is ego, with any substance or any independent nature.

It's only a belief we've taken on which we've never questioned. There's a lot of things that have never been questioned. They've taken on face value. Never questioned. That's why we say, recognize, question yourself. Have a look at these things. Test it out. See what it is. Because the false cannot stand up to investigation. There's something false going on in you and your question, it will fall apart. As you recognize how many things you've tested out. If they haven't been the truth and recognized, if they're not recognized, they'll go along. The energy of belief going in will keep them going there. They go on forever. And that's what happens because we don't look at this stuff.

With that sense of separation, as soon as the I and me, there must be other than I, which is not I. And as soon as there's not I, that's relativity, relationship, duality. And we're pointing to non-duality. There's absolutely no duality in non-duality. So we've taken on this dualistic aspect. There is me, and naturally if there's a me, there's got to be other than me, which is not me or not I. And then I'm fearful about that not I, wondering what it is. Or I might be resentful about it, or I might hate it. Or I might try and join with it. But it doesn't always happen that way.

Because it's still taken to be separate. There needs to be a recognition that there's no separation whatsoever. Me, everything becomes relative to this me. And have a look at it and see how it works. Something comes up and I like it. How do you know? Well, I've experienced this before, and this is a good thing. And don't we want to hang on to the good things? We try to keep them there. We want life to be good all the time. Not realizing it's transient, as they tell us, and it's transient, it's constantly changing. And realize it's transient. Everything is changing. You haven't got the same body you walked into this room with.

There are thousands of cells dying in it right now. And being replaced. It's not the same body you had a week ago, or last year, or ten years ago. But it's the same sense of presence that's been expressing through it. Which we still believe to be that eye remembering it all. But it's not. It's fresh and new every moment. So something comes up and I like it. And we don't want to let the things go we like. We want to keep them there. Not realizing they're transient. No matter how much you love them. How much you want to keep them there. How much you like it.

It's not going to happen. It's going to change. And don't you recognize in your life, if you like to test it out and have a look at it, it's constantly changing. We don't want it to change. We want to keep it there. So what do we do? We resist it there. We resist it. Trying to hang on it by resisting it. Don't you realize that any resistance you are in is conflict? And any conflict you are in makes you anxious, fearful, unhappy, angry, jealous, envious. They're all conflicts that are going on in the psychological world. And that's uneasiness. Another word for that is disease. So there is resistance, conflict and disease going on in us all the time.

Look at it the other way. Something comes up I don't like. What do I do with that? I don't like this one. I don't want to keep it there. I don't want to hang on it or try it out and get rid of it. So I resist it again trying to push it out. And again, conflict and disease. Resistance, conflict and disease. It's all that's ever going on while we believe we are with this separate entity, this individual. You might think you get a bit of peace from it here or a bit of stuff from there. But it comes up again and keeps going on because we've gone into the belief in relationship again.

Relativity. Two, not one. If it's one, can there be any problems with it? If there is only the one essence, everything is you, everything is yours. There's no me, no separate entity at all. And it's going to change, certainly. But have a look at that body. Isn't it one body? You can lose a finger, lose a leg or a hip or something like that. But it's still the same body going on. It's changing going on. It's still the same life essence expressing through it. When that life essence goes, that pattern breaks down. It goes back to where it came from, into this basic screen, basic space of stillness and emptiness.

So me is the cause of all my problems. A dead image I'm relating to. And again, you can understand why because a dead image cannot keep up with life. Life is constantly changing and moving. How can a dead thing keep up with it? I say like a bucket of water. You pull a bucket of water out of the river, put it on the bank, leave it there. What happens? It becomes stagnant. What's happened to the river? Has it become stagnant or is it constantly flowing on? And the bucket of water can't do anything. It's caged. We'll cut. In that bucket, enclosed in that bucket. I'm going to knock the thing over again.

Or we'll put a bird in the cage. It can be in there for years, years and years. Open the cage door. It's not going to fly out straight away because it doesn't realise there's an opening there. It doesn't realise there's a way out. If it searches for a little while, maybe it'll find it and go out then. But we're like in this cage of concepts. And we don't see the way out until we really look and investigate it. But realise the door of the cage is the cage itself. And this cage of concepts is hell. And that word hell comes from an old English word meaning held or shut off from.

We shut ourselves off from the sunlight of the spirit, they say. The insanity of the drinking and the dragging or whatever comes around returns. And we drink again. So this concept's returned and we... Shutting ourselves off from the sunlight of the spirit. And that's all it is. The light of life. Like the cloud and the sun. The radiation of the sun. It warms the cloud, blows the cloud away. And the cloud can be useful when it comes down as rain. And waters the seed in the ground or whatever it is. And so can all these thoughts, feelings and emotions be useful. But they're self-destructive when they tell me I'm not good enough or I'm fearful.

And I'm unhappy. I'm depressed. And the worst one we put upon ourselves, well after all, I'm only human. We call ourselves human beings. We call God the supreme being. You've got to go on. Take the word human off. Take the word label supreme off. Try and separate the beingness in this room without a label. And you realise I'm... That's being a chair. That's being the carpet. That's being the fellow across the road, across the seat there. That's being me. That's being you. That's being me. That's being the room. That's being everything outside this room. Everything is that pure being. Which we've labelled. I put the word on.

Which is not real. The concept or the image. Which is not real and corrupted the manifestation. The old scriptural saying is know the truth and the truth will set you free. And the only thing you can be free from, the reality that you can be free from, is the free of the belief that you are a soul. The belief that you are a separate entity. You've isolated yourself from totality. But as I say, the great perfection is the totality. It's total presence, total power and total intelligence. Total. You can't remove anything from it. And it needs to be known. Another word for knowing is intelligence.

Being, knowing, loving to be. Everybody's being. Everybody is knowing right now. And everybody wants to be right now. That's such an enigma. See the Nama River, the name and form for what it is. And it'll still be there. Still appear there. But you know the truth about it. You're not going to take the belief in it you had before. And it can utilise it. But it won't be using you. Have a look at that again. Everybody's seeing this room will tell you how to look at this so-called ego. Everybody's seeing right now. Everybody's hearing right now. Isn't that a fact? When you open your eyes this morning, did you say, now I'm going to start hearing, seeing?

You didn't. You didn't have to. The seeing was there immediately. And you knew it. There was a knowing of it. And you think it's the same seeing. You think that seeing has changed on that. You were seeing in the bedroom this morning. And you went up, went down to breakfast or up to breakfast, wherever it was. You were seeing something else. Seeing all sorts of different things until you got here. And you're still seeing different things right now in this room. You don't realise it's the same seeing. Because it's the same seeing you had yesterday, last week, last year, as far back as you can remember.

Seeing hasn't changed. But the content is. The content is constantly changing. Like that body is changing right now. There's thousands of souls dying and being replaced right at this moment. And you don't even realise it, recognise it, you know, but it's happening. Same with the hearing. Open your eyes this morning, the hearing was there. Somebody called it loudly in deep sleep, you would have heard it. It's the same hearing that's been going on. But the content has changed. So seeing and hearing are happening. Ask yourself this. Does my eye tell me I see? Well my eye's not saying, Bob, look at this, look at that, that's good, that's bad.

My eye cannot say anything at all. Can yours? And you realise, no, your eye can't say anything at all. But it is the instrument through which the seeing is happening. And that instrument is translated by the thought. Which is life. Essence is enabling, with the capacity of reasoning, enabling thoughts to happen. It's translated by the thought, I see. But it's no longer a pure seeing. Because you've got all these concepts about the eye. It's me, Bob, now. The person thinks it's seeing. The same with the hearing. Hearing is happening right now. But my ear's not saying listen to this or listen to that, it can't.

But it is the instrument through which the hearing is happening. And that instrument is translated by the thought, I hear. Anybody in this room who is unaware right now? Or not existing? No, you say I'm existing, I'm not unaware. So you must be existing and aware. So the thought comes up, I am aware. But look at this, can the thought, ask yourself this, can the thought, I see, actually see? Can a thought see? Close your eyes and look around the room and see for yourself if a thought can see. You realise you can't see anything with a thought except the backs of your eyelids, which is dark.

Can't see anything in the room. So the thought, you can conceptualise all sorts of images in your mind but they're not the actual seeing. Thought, I see, can't see. The same with the hearing. Put your hands over your ears and see if you can hear with the ears shut off. You realise the thought, I hear, cannot hear. The thought, I am aware. Anybody who is unaware right now? No. You recognise I must be aware. No, you weren't thinking about being aware. If you're not unaware, obviously you must be aware. And you've been aware all this time, throughout the talk. Unless you've gone to sleep on me.

So the thought, I am aware, is not your awareness. And the other one we've taken on is the thought, I choose. We think we choose our thoughts. But if you could ever choose your thoughts, would you have an unhappy, an angry, a fearful, or an anxious, or an oppressed thought? I wouldn't. I used to have plenty of them. Very few come around these days and what they do, they don't stay around very long because there's not believed in them anymore. So you see this con-tition, confi-tion, con- conceptual. conceptual ego. Can't see, can't hear, can't be aware, can't choose, can't do anything of itself at all.

It's a fiction. But, you know, take the life essence out of that body and you won't even ever be able to conceptualise anything. And you realise that life essence is doing the lot. Like I pointed out before, your computer's got all that information in it. Can't do a thing without the power on it. The power is that same intelligence in it, the life, as I call it, intelligence that's functioning in the universe. Causing the sun to move around the earth. The galaxies to form. The planets to move around, to change and form. The seasons to come and go. The same intelligence is reading you, beating your heart, growing your hair and your fingernails, digesting your food.

Replacing cells in your body. It's doing it, everything. Without it, you are nothing. No thing. That's what we point to and ask you to look along those directions. And people here have investigated. Looked into it. And seen it. They might see it a different way to how I see it, but they're still seeing it and recognising it and registering, resonating with it. And it's changing their life. You're not bound into the old conceptual images and ways. And I know you, when you realise that everybody in this room will have a concept, a mental concept about you. And you will have a mental concept about everybody in this room.

And you will have a mental concept about everybody in this room. And you will have a mental concept about everybody in this room. And when you come into this room you will form a concept about them. There's no concept about everybody in this room. And when you come into this room you will form a concept about them. And you will have a concept about yourself and they'll have a concept about themselves. If you ask yourself this question, which concept would be right? And you must recognise there's no concept right. All a concept is a mental structure. A made up thing. If there's no concept right, who can ever be superior to you without a concept?

Who can ever be inferior to you without a concept? what would you want of the other persons without a concept? What would you want from them? If you know the same essence that you are, they are. No matter what pattern, shapes and forms they're taking. So a lot of these things drop away. Doesn't mean to say they won't cease to arise. You'll be led and moved to do what you do. Just the same as you've done all your life, though you mightn't realise it. We've put ourselves as this conceptual image in the road and blocked a lot of the spontaneous functioning from happening. And a lot of the joys and pleasures of life we've missed out on.

We shut ourselves off from it. But it doesn't have to be that way. So it's all yours. We ask you to ask questions and investigate and try it while you're here and listen to it. Got any doubts or arguments? No, you're just walking in here and walking out without taking something away from it. You might as well not bother to come in the first place. Another point, people here will elaborate on it a bit more because I can tell you how it is with them and what they see that I might have missed out on. I miss out on plenty. So it's up to you all to get in it at your own meeting.

For a start off, I told you right from the start, we're talking about the one essence. If there's one essence, what was incarnated in the first place? And what can you reincarnate? It's a vibrating pattern of energy. The energy is always complete and whole and total all the time. Even though it can appear, so many break up into different pattern shapes and forms. Like in the body, there's one essence here causing around us. There's blood, lymph, all the rest of it, bones, sinews and everything like that. It's still the one essence. Nothing was born in the first place, so nothing can reincarnate. And the other thing for reincarnation to take place is it needs time.

Mm-hmm. And when you look at time and see time is nothing but a mental concept. It's all spontaneous. It's got no duration. Time is duration. It's spontaneity. When does now begin? It begins now. When does it end? As you say, it's beginning, it's already ending. So it's just a spontaneous movement, what they call a spander or a soma in a lot of the other ways, or a drill or energy, you know. A vibration. A vibration with no beginning, no end. So there's nothing. Pattern shapes and forms will appear. They're not going to be the same. They're going to be the same. They're going to be the same.

They're going to be the same. They're going to disappear. Like you just took a breath, do you think you'll ever get that same breath in again? Yeah. Yeah. That breath's gone back into the atmosphere. It might be breathed in by something else. It might not be. But there's still the one air, and that's what's happening. Yeah. Did we ever get the same drop of water out of the sea again? What can reincarnate? Yeah. And the thing that keeps us in hope that we got to, you know, you know, we got to learn, not gonna, We're not gonna learn. lose this life but if you recognize you were never born in the beginning you've never been away from life life is there all there is and you've always never been that and always and you're given this particular pattern which is a shape and form which is a unique expression of that life and it'll never be again but it's a unique expression it's done its job and when it's done its job it's moved on you can actually say that life is constantly incarnating to all the forms it's like if you were the life you not reincarnate ink because the re means the incarnating again and it is I always fresh and new is incarnating into trees into other forms and you are life you never lose the life but the reincarnation is the idea that there is a separate soul that travels and that is immortal or eternal or whatever and it also comes out from the idea the eternity of timelessness is the essence of life but now that essence of life is the essence of life but now that essence of life is the essence of life, because of the romantic dream and fear of annihilation, has been divided into numerous number of little fractured of it, while this is one whole, it's not divided into separate bodies.

But as life, you are incarnating all the time, moment to moment. But as separate soul, well… You can explain it so beautifully. Like I try people, I say, no it's bullshit, and then they ask me, why is it bullshit? And then I'm like, oh you have to see Bob, he can explain very well. That's where we make a big mistake I think, they call it soul, S-O-U-L. Anybody ever seen a soul? Or anybody know a soul? I don't know if anybody would have found a soul or a senator, would they? They got away from the natural effigy of it, it was S-O-L-E, soul, the singular.

They're opposites, you know. But over the years it's become more and more comfortable and it was comfortable hearing about you talking about it today, form is emptiness and emptiness is form. And basically what Kat and Danielle and you Bob have just been talking about, it really… It's on the same page as that I think, yeah. So what you're saying is I can't put on my gravestone of better luck next lifetime. So you can't put on my gravestone of better luck next lifetime. Take it down to the offshore. Somebody else will wear it and they can take your off-shape and fold it. I'm there on Tuesdays.

You mentioned in your talk several times the word mire. What is mire? Illusion is another word for appearance. Definition of it is a phenomenal manifestation. The definition of phenomenal is that which appears to be, only seemingly so. They use metaphors to point it out like the blue sea. Go down to the ocean and they'll say, get me a bucket of blue water, the sea will say, don't be stupid. The flat earth, the earth looks flat when you look out at the sea and the sky. Water in the mirage, the snake in a rope, all different metaphors they point out, all seemingly so but it's not so.

When you investigate it you see it's not so. With the reincarnation thing, if I pass but if that consciousness then decides to come through some other form, that's possible isn't it? Sure, it's always a unique expression. Each pattern, shape and form is a unique expression. A unique expression. There's no two alike. And that's basically what Kat was saying. It keeps reforming. Yes. Constantly. But the thing is we're attached to us coming back again. Yeah, yeah. Yeah and so what it is. But I might experience myself, I know there's no me but like I don't know. Who might experience it? Like it might form into something else that I'm not really aware of but it will form into something else possibly.

But remember the Buddha. It does. The Buddha came up to the fisherman's son on the beach and said, what are you doing? Talking about the consciousness can go from somewhere here to somewhere else. You know, I'm not teaching that. You know, so it's worth keeping that in mind. The forms are coming and going but consciousness doesn't. Yes. But another form may appear in another form. Totally. And they do. They do. Constantly. But nothing to do with you. But you wouldn't say it is you. No, I realize that. This is a unique manifestation. This is it. Yeah. But like in the Buddhist tradition, like when like the Dalai Lama, then they die and they're going to look everywhere to find the next one.

Yes. But they know like the non-duality. They know the truth. So why would they do that? Blind spot of a culture. Oh, so okay. Or it's ism, Buddhism. So like Bob says, can you talk a bit about that, Bob? Where you say anything with an ism like Catholicism, Buddhism. Can you talk a bit about that? I want to try to remember it. Ism is dualism. Yeah, every ism is dualism. Capitalism, communism, Catholicism, Protestantism, all isms are dualism. So they're a story, basically. They're a story. Because they have the opposite. If something has the opposite, it's a... Yeah, it's a story in duality. But it's so interesting because you think like the Dalai Lama, he knows, or?

Oh, yes. He knows, so... And yet he sits down to meditate for hours and hours and hours every day. They believe that he was reincarnated, and you know, da-di-da-di-da. So as Kat said, it's a bit of a blind spot. It's like the Christian mystics. Yeah. They understood who they really were. Yeah. But you know, the Catholic Church definitely has a few blind spots. And it's in the doctrine, you know? It's in the doctrine. The same as in the Buddhism doctrine. But you know, I'm sure Buddha knew who he really was. Yeah. I'm sure Christ knew who he really was. So it's more that people didn't understand what he was teaching.

Well, I think it's a blind spot. Yeah, it's a blind spot. Yeah. You know, it's a doctrine or an ism. You know, it's... It's me and the other again, only on a huge scale. You know what I mean? Yeah. Do you understand? Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Cool. Thank you. Okay. Everybody. Thank you. I'm actually quite curious. In hundred or two hundreds, and I know there is no time, it's just a figure of speech. Yeah. When people will listen to Bob, what are our blind spots? Because they will be some. There will be the cultural conditioning is so powerful. You know, the way... We are joking, and I'm joking constantly.

He's got a little bit of a flu. I'm giving him vitamin C. Is it that belief? Yeah, of course it is belief. It is one of the beliefs that govern the whole appearance. So they are used. If I believe that the body needs or whatever is sick, I better believe that there is a cure for it. And this is not me. Is it a blind spot, do you think? No. No. It's just part of the functioning, but it is actually so engraved in the culture. It's not me believing it. It's basically life expressing itself as a form, and every form is assured by the perception of other forms.

It actually reassures itself. So there will be blind spots. I mean, there will be. There probably are already, and maybe some people can point them out. I don't know. That we are expressing. Bob has his favorite literatures from a few thousand years ago, Raibu Gita and all the other Gitas. And he's basically filtering out the blind spots. You know? What the seeker, ideal seeker should look like or how it should practice or whatever. There are absolute pearls of wisdom in between as stones and rocks and mud and dirt. Because it kind of seems like, yeah, you can only see what you can see. And I'm not, I don't mean personal you.

I mean the filter, you know, the consciousness as it is unfiltered, unincarnated, even doesn't assume any form. It doesn't see through the eyes. Like eyes have only see certain frequencies of light. The ears can only see certain sounds. Of course the reasoning has expanded the scale by the science. But there is still the consciousness filtered through the senses. So it's still having, it must, it has to have the blind spot. Even the idea of form. There is no form. They're all Maya. They're all empty. There is no matter. We're all limited. We can only point. So we're all limited. Yeah. We can only point. You know, but I think some, some unique patterns of energy have clearer pointers.

And I'd say you, you two are pretty clear. And you do. Definitely. But, but that's so true what you say is whatever you read, you know, someone says, oh, this is a really great book. Have a look at it, you know, and you read through and you think, oh, hang on. No, don't resonate with that. But I resonate with that or don't resonate with that. You know, and, and I love how Bob draws on so many different things and sees the truth in so many things. And I think the more you say the truth, the more you see it in a lot of things, but there's often blind spots, but I can't think of any with you guys.

No. Honestly. Yeah. Also there is, there is this aspect of really wanting to see the truth because we had this situation. I mean, sometimes in the group meetings that somebody doesn't like someone's style of pointing. So they say, no, no, this guy or this girl, they don't get it because I don't hear it and I don't resonate with it. So there is another filter, the personality filter that tells you now I'd rather be right than hear the pointer. I don't care about truth that much because it's, yeah, it's always only one consciousness speaking. Whether it speaks to someone you like, but it speaks to someone you don't like.

It doesn't matter if you're really in love with the truth, you will hear it from any mouth. You will hear it from the birds singing. Yeah, that's absolutely true. But yeah, we have quite a lot of drama sometimes here. Terry, tell us about it. Tell some because I've been in the Netherlands. I know nothing. Oh yeah, we are not, we're not filming on Tuesdays and Thursdays and yeah, and then when people are not intimidated by the truth. Oh really? Yeah. They come up with some of the stuff, but this really just shows, you know, it's not, it's nobody is a doer. If someone is not in love with the truth enough to actually hear the pointer from anyone, that's not their fault.

They are not the doers. They are not responsible. They're not to be blamed. They're not to be whatever. It's just a dynamic. It's just a play, you know, like no matter how holy the satsang or the circus is, it's always going to be clashes, you know, some people speak slower and people fall asleep. Some speak too fast and no, no, no, you're jumping from one subject to another too fast. They're always personal preferences. As long as we have eyes, we'll have favorite colors. That's the play. And Bob used to say you're either attracted or repelled. Yes. I mean, you either resonate or you don't. In the story.

In the story. In the middle way. End of story. Really. You're either attracted or repelled, you know, and you find your attention goes somewhere else. If you're repelled, if you're attracted, you're right in there, you know, if you know what I mean. Yes. Yeah. I just used to. Repelled is not a word I know. I used to just love what Bob said. It was you're either attracted or repelled. But I love Bob. Oh, me too. Don't we all? Yes. We all do. But I'm saying in any situation in life. Yeah. Any, any situation. You're either attracted or repelled. Yeah. In any situation. I've got a question.

Let's take over. Yeah. What about like natural instincts that seem to come up like say lust or greed or I know that's coming probably from the mind, but they can get in a lot of difficulty with those instincts. What's your take on those? Well, they're natural responses. What we put on the conceptual ideas, which we've added to them, instead of just being nature, like take sex for instance. Most animals like you can have two dogs together, you know, and they'll be running around for months and they won't be thinking about it and they'll sleep without it doing anything. The bitch will come on heat, the male will go mad, last for a little while.

But they don't, they don't only think about it or it comes to them, you know, when the urge is their natural urge and they reprocrate. With us, it's on the TV, it's on everybody. We look at this and look at that one and you're constantly reinforcing it yourself instead of leaving those natural states to come, responses to come up. Yeah. Then it'll be good. Yeah, mind stuff. Then it's just natural in the mind. And same with even the stuff like jealousy. I remember I was, I think I expressed it before, but because I saw some sort of a signs of a jealousy in Bob at some point, I was thinking, nah, that's impossible.

And he was chasing someone away. He was just hanging around for a little bit too much. And he gave me an example of the lions in the nature, in the wild when he's having some sort of a, whatever the tribe and they are, they are ladies lionesses there around. And if there is another like gamma male there hanging around and being a threat for the alpha, it chase them away. It does just like people. It's not that we have the story that jealousy is coming from the ego. No, it is a natural instinct. If someone is a, is a threat for your family or for whatever, it is a natural instinct.

But the natural instinct works this way. Like with the lion, the lion will chase away the gamma and then, or whatever the beta male or whatever, and we'll come back to their own lifestyle. The, the hunting will not have a story about it, will not make themselves guilty, will not punish themselves. We will not reinforce that story. While we people, we have natural urges and we have a big, big story about it on top of it. I mean, it's good to actually see that because the ego is fiction, nothing really comes from it. Nothing is everything that comes is the call of nature. Even the greed.

I mean, you know, the monkeys that are stealing from, from humans, from peoples. If you watch the documentaries and we do, we love it. So they are greedy. They are, they are, they are, they are, they are, they are, they are, they are, they are some animals are stealing shiny things like even magpies, teaspoons or whatever. And this is not a greed. This is an impulse. Somehow the nature designed them this way. But because as Bob was giving an example of sex, yes, we kind of conditioned the society. We give a promises because of the sense of insecurity, of vulnerability, of me being unworthy or me being not enough.

The society promises you that if you greed and if you are greedy, you will not be able to be happy. The society promises you that if you greed and if you have more possessions, you add to yourself, you will arrive, you will be relieved, you will be happy eventually. That's the story. The story in the head reinforces the natural urges and makes them absolutely ridiculous. Because people who actually were lucky enough to be wealthy, they know that it doesn't really extinguish that inner void. It doesn't extinguish that anxiety of not being enough. Of being limited, of being vulnerable. And that's the same with lust. Absolutely.

Totally. Because lust on its own is very empty. But when there's a natural sexual predilection or attraction to somebody, it's very beautiful. But when it's an addiction, it can be very destructive. Yes. And that's a story. You know, that's all part of the story. So the same with greed. When you think having a lot is going to make you feel better, that's a problem. That creates disease. When you think having a lot of sex is going to make you feel better, that's also creating disease. So the story creates the disease. But in your natural environment, with somebody you love, well, that's a whole different ball of luck.

It's not going to be the same. But we've had that over-stimulation through the environment of this is what you need. Yes, and also with the internet. I mean, it's just everywhere. It's got away from our natural, just when it flows, when it's supposed to. Yeah, yeah, that's right. And I think sex without love is totally empty. Dr. Barham, I had this belief that your belief systems that you're not going to be able to have sex with your partner, and you're not going to have sex with your partner, and you're not going to have sex with your partner. And I think that's a very important thing.

I think that's a very important thing. And I think that's a very important thing. Yeah. And I think that's a very important thing. Because the systems that you have between the ages of zero and seven, just let's say I give you the child till you're seven and I'll show you the adult, are far more difficult to pick or to question than concepts that you'll adopt in later life, like smoking. I found smoking relatively more easier to pick and find the false child than the childhood conditioning. Can you sort of comment on that? Well, it's reinforced every day, the child has to be on the safer side of everything.

It's so important. Yeah, yeah. and they've got that little Kendra around the corner. And then everybody around you is doing it. 99.9% are coming from that self-centre. And they're all reinforcing it, you see. And you start reinforcing it yourself. So you get that here. You're leaving it and reinforcing it. And you've got this habit, you see. So it's pretty hard to toss them. I don't even know what they are. Like the separation thing. That's standard. That's our standard template of reality. There's so much there that we'll probably go, many of us go through our lives without even knowing that they existed, those erroneous beliefs. Recognise what a belief is.

The definition of belief is unquestioned acceptance of something in the absence of reason. Acceptance of an alleged fact without positive knowledge or proof. So when you put some of these beliefs you've taken on to see whether they are the fact of it, they'll fall apart. But the habit won't drop off. It might. It might drop off straight away. But when you can't put any energy or belief into it anymore, it's not going to last. Nothing can live without energy. And then unpicking them. I mean, perhaps some of them at least we can't really. Like, you know, you learn your emotional structure, the whole body language of the face from parents on the first months of the life.

And how to actually unlearn it is impossible. It's like the animals do it too. They observe the cats are. They're emulating mothers washing themselves, whatever. And well, we just have to kind of accept that this very early conditioning is going to be a filter for life. And just. So you're preconditioned to behave in a particular way. Yes. And there's nothing you can do about it? Well, if you've got enough reason, you can start the questioning. You can see through it. You can see through it, yeah. And you can begin to uproar. I mean, some of them can. Not that there's any actual entity involved. It's just.

Giving it attention. Seeing the pattern. Giving it attention. You begin to outgrow it because it doesn't have any power. See? You see that it's an erroneous belief related to a me that doesn't exist. Or an image you have about yourself. And then you see that pattern again. And you go, there it is. And you move on. It's like awareness becomes a transformative thing for anything you had before. Absolutely. Because unless you're aware of a pattern. Or something showing up. And again, that comes from hopefully divine right timing or something. It's not just. You know, when you're aware you're doing something, you can shift into something differently.

And even though it's not you shifting. But it moves differently. And it, you know, because really suffering comes from believing things. Suffering comes from taking things personally. Suffering comes from being out of presence. And when you let go of. Belief and only go by the experience of somebody like or something. And pay attention. And not take anything personally. You're suffering. And a lot of searching over, you know, centuries has been on trying to end the suffering from a me that is insatiable for things outward. But nothing outside yourself can save you or give you peace. That's absolutely correct. Yes. Certain behaviors should be questioned and can be questioned.

And certain are not like the first also year or two years of life. We learn how to perceive things. We learn what is visible and what is invisible. And some bullshit comes up with it also, like Santa Claus and other things. We don't want to question that because when I start questioning the visibility of the things and I suddenly find a way to be on completely different wavelengths than the rest of the society. That could be pretty. That could be not that much of a fun. So this sort of a conditioning is perhaps. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes.

Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Okay. But the one that brings suffering, as Mark says, that's the only concern. Anything that brings suffering that could be first of all witnessed when it is recognized as a pattern, already recognizing the pattern, let's say whatever the smoking as you said, it comes much later later in life. But early early patterns like they are very early patterns with kids with a brain damage that fall off the bed and become violent out of nowhere. Or have this AD. ADHD sort of a conditioning when consciousness is mature enough to see itself in the form of a pattern then let's say if that well the child probably wouldn't but if the adults see that the old pattern of violence as the urge happening in consciousness that edge already is much much less fueled by the belief in other words when I see anything let's say the violence now because of the taming of society became irritability or anger or outburst of like a volcano erupting from within if I see that energy boiling and being ready to erupt and I'm actually a witnessing of it the consciousness witnessing consciousness of it part of the available attention or computing capacity is with the energy the experience of the consciousness of the consciousness of the consciousness of the consciousness of the consciousness of the consciousness of the consciousness of but part of it is with witnessing so the volcano doesn't have the full power anymore the violence is not gonna go full throttle anymore because part of the of the energy that fuels it is kind of out of it in the witnessing and the more of the habit of witnessing which means kind of almost yeah it's a bad word this what is the word at the beginning was a word when you kind of separate yourself or when you when you kind of different detachment exactly yes so if you if you actually watch it in detached manner it kind of it's suggests a split that there is me watching career there is and there is an object watch uh that cannot.

that is being watched. And this is only a seeming and temporary separation, because when you turn and see who is watching, there is no one there, and yet it is seen. So when anything is witnessed in that type of a detached manner, it doesn't have the power, it doesn't have that much power anymore. So it actually becomes, that's the beginning of overcoming the pattern. That's the beginning when the pattern has started breaking. Because at one point, there will be so much of the detachment that this pattern of violence or the volcano won't be mine anymore. It's completely impersonal. If it's impersonal, I don't really care.

And it doesn't really bother me anymore. It doesn't get any attention. It gets completely ignored. And it starves in the absence of fuel, in the absence of that life fueling it. It just breaks. But I did hear what you say. I did hear what you said. Because the ones that are seemingly ingrained, they keep coming up. But every time they come up, it's an opportunity to watch. You know, it's a beautiful thing, because you're watching from that presence that you are. And I love the analogy of that you're the railway station and the thoughts are the trains. I just think that's a really good pointer.

Because the railway station is always the same. It doesn't go anywhere. And the thoughts just keep coming and going. And the thought that we have that that pattern is deeply ingrained, and it's our conditioning, it's all connected with the story related to the me. The me that is part of the story. But it appears seemingly harder to overcome. But old habits die hard. But they can be watched. They can be watched. And they can be seen. And they can begin to be dissipated by that attention. The neuroscience, as I understand it, does say that those early conditioning patterns are stronger. The synapses connections are much stronger than those developed in later years.

And so logically, to me, they are harder to unpick. Yes, yes, absolutely. And so you only begin to, if you have to, to use words, you begin to outgrow them. So you begin to outgrow them. But as I said, every time is an opportunity to watch. There's no one to outgrow them, really. And so that's the thing to watch more than anything, is to turn it back in on who's it happening to. We breed dogs. And we say the puppy is the dog. So what you're saying is, yeah. Yeah. It's true. And the neuronal paths that you're talking about that are ingrained, when you start to focus and see something differently, you won't see those paths the same, those neuronal paths.

But you may still go down them. But little plus a little plus a little, somebody told me eventually equals a lot in the different thing. And when you see something differently, you will never see that the same way again. That's correct. That helps too. Well said. Yeah. Also, if you, we could spend a lifetime, in fact, we actually don't live long enough to unpick. We just don't. But if we're going to do any unpicking, unpick the word, unpick language. Good point. Go there. Like if you really want to unpick, unpick language, unpick word, which ends up being constructed into thoughts, which ends up what we think we are and what we operate for.

If you're going to do any unpicking, start there. Because that's when we come into so-called existence. In the beginning was the word. All that implies is that about age two, years of age, when we start to learn words, that's when the me and all the concepts and the self-center and the conditioning all comes into being. And, you know, it happens to everybody. Because it's everybody doing it to everybody as they're being reborn. We don't know any different. We don't know any better. You know? And all word is, is a sound. It's a sound. At some stage, you know, the sound car, which sounds like, it could be a car or it also sounds like a bird.

Car. Yeah. At some stage. We've, we've learned. We've, we've labeled that sound. Yeah. And even, even using writing, we're giving it, we've used symbols to determine what that sound means. Then that, then those, those symbols end up becoming the word. Then what we do is we attach the meaning to that word. That word means that sound. It's so, it's so removed. And then what we do? We take the meaning to be the actual. It's not. It's absurd. It's so true. It's totally and completely absurd. And, but we do that. We literally do that. We do. We take the meaning to be the actual. And if you look at your history, your whole history, which is kind of what you've been discussing, yeah, all that is comprised of is sound only.

Yeah. Yeah. So we call that a word or we call sentences or we then call thoughts. Or the story. It's just the, it's just a, it's just a sort of, it literally is just a story. And, and what we do is we take the description to be the actual. I'm not worth a bucket of shit. So I become that. I become the bucket of shit. You know, I have low self esteem. I become that. to be a thing. We take it to be something substantial. It's just a sound that we've added a meaning to. You know, prior to two years of age, the baby's making all sorts of sounds.

It's not being affected by them. And it hears all sorts of sounds as well, but because no meaning is being placed on those words, the baby doesn't get affected by that either. You know, you have a six-month-old laying on its back that's got no idea of what words is, and it's lying on its back and it's throwing its arms in the air, and its legs up in the air, and it's giggling and laughing its head off. Not because it got a joke. Until it's hungry. Do you know what I mean? Not because it's understood. Not because it's understood what somebody has said. There's just a natural love to be.

You know, that's... Christ said, be childlike. Yeah. Not childish. Yeah. But do you mean with unpicking? Do you then mean to be silenced more? Or you mean to... Just to look. ... know it's like it's a practice you were... What I mean by unpick, see, if you go back to the Word and actually look at it, and what I've just described, you'll see how the me gets constructed, and you'll see the falseness in it. Yeah. The absolute falseness in it. Then there's no need to unpick. There's no need to unpick the me. The whole thing just collapses. Bob wants to say something. It's not all sound, it is a vibration.

It's all vibration. It's a movement of energy. Yeah, so give an example. Let's say early conditioning is punishment at the age of four or five from the parents, and it builds up, crystallizes as sort of panic attacks or anxiety attacks. That very label, panic attack or anxiety attack, makes it so real, that we don't even question what is actually going on, what is actual experience. But when we take the label anxiety attack of it, what is happening is a bubbling energy going in here, somewhere in the solar plexus. Is the breathing going a little bit contracted and a little bit more shallow? Is an experiencing going on?

The label panic, and I have a couple of friends who actually are on antidepressants, and they do actually have real panic attacks, and they called me in a panic attack or in hysteria. And walking them out of that label is basically just bringing the awareness back to what is an actuality. As Terry says, this is the sound. We take the sound for the reality. The same bubbling in the stomach or in the solar plexus happens when you're really excited. But you don't label it panic. You don't label it anxiety. So there is no problem. The label creates the, it actually makes the, constitutes the story.

And it, this very, very bubbly feeling becomes uncomfortable, becomes suffering. But taking the label off and learning, having the childlike curiosity about it, what is really going on, and just watching it without wishing it away. Because when I call it anxiety, oh shit, I don't want it here, absolutely. But when I'm curious, I don't know what it is. I don't have any label for it. Ah, let's learn about it. Let's see how long it lasts. Let's see how much space it occupies. Let's see how quickly it vibrates. And not wishing it away, just really investigating, learning about it, being curious about it. You may fall in love with that feeling, with that bubbly feeling.

What a wonderful source of variety for the body. What an interesting event happening in there. It's interesting you say that because as a performer, you know, I used to get very anxious, you know, before I would perform. You know, and very nervous and call it that. Call it anxious and nervous and whatever, whatever. And then someone said to me, well, why don't you just see it as the energy you need to perform. And, you know, from that moment on, I have never had any fear. Beautiful. I think it was Bob who said that. Sounds like Bob. It does. Tell us right away. Tell you straight away what it all comes from.

It tells you in the Bible, in the beginning, so-called Adam and Eve, they had the tree of knowledge of good and evil. They learnt words. They were in paradise until that time. No words. As soon as they learnt words, they got kicked out. They're in the land. Uh-oh. Good and evil and then I want good and I don't want evil. But it's not only that. What they're pointing out there, they're all words. But the way we think is always in the interrelated opposites. It's either past, future, pleasant, painful, happy, sad, loving, hurting. Watch your mind and see if you're thinking in another way. And when you're talking about before, you know, getting, we were reinforced when we were kids and getting stronger.

What do you do if you stop exercising? You get strong through exercising. If you stop exercising, what happens? Atrophies. There's your answer. Of course it was. We all know that. Righto Victor. Give her credit. That's my belief. The boys are on fire now. It's so true what you say about puppies though. When I had my little puppy, there was five puppies in the litter. And my little one came, the one that I ended up getting, came running out. She was so cute. She was all confident. She wanted to see people. She was, you know, just, whenever there was a human there, she was out there, you know.

And she was just the most gorgeous dog. And she didn't have, she had no fear. I think she thought she was a person. Or not a person. I don't know what she thought she was. But she was so confident and so spontaneous. And no fear. And, you know. And she was the pick of the litter for sure. You know. And I think when we live to our true nature, you know, we're spontaneous. There's no fear. There's, you know, we're just functioning in that pure spontaneity, you know. And that's... Well they've got nothing to fear. There's no one separate from you. Yeah. That's right. And animals are always such a wonderful example.

That is nothing wrong with us. That is totally normal. Like we have couple of cats. And they are so different. They're such different personalities. And they don't have an ego. They didn't form in the self-centre. They don't have the idea that they should change or grow or mature or become better or deserve love. No. Zero. And how different we are from them. It's only the story. Only one little story that I'm not enough. That makes the whole difference. It makes the whole suffering. Yeah, I see how much Bob loves them. Best one and best true. He loves them. But a dog could get sad in that though, couldn't it?

Oh yeah. Oh yeah. A dog can die on the owner's grave. But it wouldn't have the liable sadness. Yeah. It'd be just a sensation. It's just a sensation in the body. Which is all what happens with us. So a dog can know, well it knows obviously that it is. But unlike us it can't know what it is. Yeah. Well unlike us it doesn't need to know. And just like us we really don't know what we are. We only think we know what we are. That's the difference. We need to know what we're not. Otherwise we wouldn't be here. That's the difference. We have the ability to know what we are.

Whereas the animals just know that they are. That's a natural spontaneity. They really are. It's only human conditioning that changes animals. Like dogs we put out. But they wouldn't be happy about being sad or in grief about something. They're not sad or in grief. They're just a natural thing. If they were feeling that, they wouldn't enjoy that state probably. That's what's meant by when the saga does. When the saga does. Yeah. When the saga does. Yeah. That's what the saga says. We forget what our true nature is. Nature is. Yeah. And this so-called awakening event that everyone's striving for is just that. The total and absolute recognition of our true nature.

And you know as people operating from their mes we become so arrogant. We actually believe we are separate from nature. Hmm. We believe we're separate. We can see nature. Yeah. And we can have an understanding of nature. But I'm separate from that. And I'm superior. Which is just absurd. Now the only thing that separates us from, only thing rather, the only thing that seems to separate us from nature is the story. Only. Nature is happening here all the time. Yeah. Bob calls it an intelligence energy. Which you can see in nature. But it also happens here. Speaking, thinking, smelling, seeing, tasting, touching. All of it.

It happens here. We forget. We totally forget. Get caught up in the story. We take ourselves to be the story. And the functioning just happens. There's no doer here. There's no doer in the tree. The tree doesn't go I'm going to grow a limb. I'm going to pop out of the tree. I'm going to pop out a few more leaves. Like there's a doer in the tree somewhere. Do you know what I mean? It just happens. And we literally just happen. The problem is we believe it's me that's doing the happening. That's why we come into so much resistance and so much conflict in life.

Because things won't go the way me wants it to go. Me wants to go against our natural nature. And we fight and there's conflict that goes on. And it's crazy. You just kind of let go of it all. And you will still continue to function. You'll still wake up in the morning. One foot will still get out of bed. You'll still function. Without the me being there believing it's the doer of it. And you can literally start to observe that happening. How many times have I said this? I'm not going to lie. I'm not going to lie. I'm not going to lie. I'm not going to lie.

I'm not going to lie. How many times? Kick back and then just follow intuition. Observe. Travel lighter. Just observe. You're travelling lighter. When you were just speaking then, in all honesty, did you actually think to do this with your hands and arms? No. You can start to observe it. How many times have we been driving along in our car and we're just totally consumed? By whatever it is that's going on in our head. Sometimes so much so that we'll be driving along and we sort of come to and we don't know how we got there. Wherever it is that we are. Or we'll get to the other end and somebody will say did you drive yourself in?

We'll go, yeah, yeah, sure I did. Bullshit. We don't even have to pay any attention to what the body does as it's driving. We don't. It just happens. You can literally start to observe it. That's what's meant by look. Observe. Look. That's what's meant by that. I love that thing that we're action figures. We're action figures. And so when you're watching and you see there's no story, there's no me, there's no other, you're basically like a little action figure. That's functioning. Basically. Just watching yourself go in. You start to watch it. And you start to see and start to understand there's another intelligence at work here.

It's not me at all. Oh my God. And that's a beautiful thing to see. You know. You start to smile. You will. The whole notion of having free will. Because it just... And you laugh. You can't help but laugh. That's seeing the falseness. And the truth can only recognize something that's not true. Something that's false. Only the truth can recognize something that's false. So you start abiding in truth. Fact. Truth. This isn't a spiritual path. There's no practices to do. There's no practice in looking. Looking is not a practice. Observing is not a practice. You look and observe anyway. There's no one to practice anything.

What a freeing thing. Anyway, time is quite up. Thanks Bob. Thank you. Good mark. Good job. One arm.