Sailor Bob - Non Duality. No separate self. 11-11-18

Yeah, anyway. I'm not new. Maybe you can get the blanket from behind or just something soft, or one of the pillows. Is that enough? Yeah. Can we say our names so everyone knows each other? Richard. Tony. Lyndall. Tony. Jane. Tess. Terry. Bob. And Kat. So. Okay. You know the drill by now, don't you? Yeah. Well. She's a newcomer here. Newcomer here. She's sort of new. Yeah. That's what I mean. Yeah. That sort of a look says that he wants me to speak. But he will kick in. We'll actually, we'll invite him to join in. It used to be the old style. He would be having the an hour talk or 40 minutes talk and then people would ask questions.

But he had a hectic year lately and... Yeah. And he just, he just wants to have a little bit of a backup and something to kick him out. Like, you know, I'll drop a few concepts. It's not about me. I know. I know. This is one of the tricks. I'm actually learning how to engage him. One of the tricks is talk about him. He doesn't like it so he will take over. And I'm sorry. I hate to do something that you don't like. But okay. Let's go to non-jewality. Okay. So, I'm going to start with the non-jewality. So, I'm going to start with the non-jewality.

So, I'm going to start with the non-jewality. So, I'm going to start with the non-jewality. So, I'm going to start with the non-jewality. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I hate to do something that you don't like. But okay. Let's go to non-jewality. Wonderful to see you. Grab a seat. That's Lucy. Dr. Okay. So, non-jewality. So, it basically means there is not two, it's just one. It means that everything is one. And it kind of feels counterintuitive when we look around and we see the variety of diversity of thoughts. forms and objects, not only physical objects but mental objects, thought forms and feelings and emotions. How is that all one?

So the way I like the most, Bob is expressing it as one essence appearing as everything. And now if we look at that one essence or that life appearing as everything, the easy way to actually break it down, the everything, is to see it as the frequency. The way we are thinking about the sound is the frequency. The way we think about light is the frequency. So it is vibration, vibrating, pulsing, throbbing life bringing itself into different shapes and forms and patterns. So if we look from that space perspective in the Buddhist saying, they call it emptiness that is form. Form is emptiness, emptiness is form.

So now we have this cognising, intelligent field of life, of form. Or emptiness. Emptiness that vibrates into various forms. It vibrates into sound, sights, taste, touch, smell. And this is all the experience of the world. The whole experience is actually a sensory experience. So now as we view the world from this perspective, from the perspective of that one essence appearing as everything, there is no separation. There is no sense of being isolated or separated. We only have that one life. One life appearing as everything. Appearing as the body, appearing as the thinking in the body. And if there is a sense of self inside the body, that's also that one life appearing as that sense of self.

But that sense of self is usually the reason for all our troubles and suffering and everything. Because that sense of self is the idea that there is somebody inside this body or inside this mind that should be controlling the world. And it's not doing very well. And it's not very worthy either. It's a little bit insecure, a little bit uncertain, a little bit too fat or too small or too stupid or too nice or too whatever. It's not good enough. That sense of being not good enough, that sense of being incomplete, not wholly, not connected, comes from the idea that I am separate from life, from the world, from that essence appearing as everything.

That comes up as an idea of our ego, our separate self. And that can very easily be questioned. Because so far nobody who ever, who dared to look, have ever found anything that would be sitting there inside. There's no agent or dwarf or mental image there that would be really having any power to do anything. There's no one there who could be thinking or making decisions or choices. There's just life expressing itself. There's no one there who could be thinking or making decisions or choices. There's just life expressing itself. There's no one there who could be thinking or making decisions or choices. There's no one there who can even be saying anything.

There's no one there who can say anything. There's a lot of things in our being, that are just expressing through different channels. That spacious, cognizing emptiness expressing us the field of seeing and the object, the content of seeing. We just run through the basics. Just basics. One essence appearing as everything. So everything that includes the sense of separate self, that's also It. And that sense of separate self is just a bundle of thoughts. Because if we really look at this, what is that sense of me? What is that sense of identity? It's usually belief that I'm within the framework of my skin. Or I am within the framework of my mind.

Like, I like this, I don't like that. It's just a bundle of experiences, past thoughts and experiences. Something that we collected when we learned words. Before we learned any words. That was just overwhelming, beautiful sense of precious presence. And perhaps sensations floating through that field of presence. And right now it is exactly the same. There is a sense of presence that is undeniable. Sense of I am. The preciousness of this intimate aliveness that is undeniable. And that is here now. And on top of that, there is just floating sensations. There are different contents of that space. There are different thoughts, different feelings, different objects, different sounds.

So what is real in the whole? Well, that's why they call it in non-duality. They call it the self or the totality or the emptiness that is unmanifested. And it stays as the space. And when it's manifested and it stays, it shows up as a form. And the forms are coming and going. They are just like a dance. In Hinduism, they call it Shiva-Shakti dance. Shiva is pure field of consciousness or sky-like awareness. And Shakti, Shiva created of himself. And Shakti is a feminine aspect. And it's dancing and it's moving and it's changing. So everything that has the beginning and has an end, doesn't matter how old it is.

It can be an aeons. It can be a galaxy, millions years. It can be a thousand years old. It still is a flick in the appearance. It's just part of the dream. It comes and goes. It's not real. It's just showing. It's just flickering on the screen of the timelessness of that presence. So coming back to the place which we call reality or truth. It's coming back to that undeniable sense of presence. The presence that is there all the time. That it can't be obscured. There is attention moving from things to things. Hanging onto the objects or stories of future or past which are imaginary by the way.

Nobody has ever experienced the future unless it became now. Or the past unless it has been recalled now. So they are just figments of imagination. And they're beautiful. But they're not the reality. So coming back to the reality is coming back to that stillness or presence. Sense of presence. And from the space-like, sky-like awareness perspective, the content is just a passing phenomena. So the content, and you can argue there and you're welcome. Because in truth language cannot actually describe what is undescribable. But it can. So we could say totally opposite. The stillness is still. And there are not forms passing through stillness. The forms are illusion.

They don't really exist. And when the body is moving, the stillness is not. And well that's just the way, it's really just the way it is expressed. The best and the easiest way is to just, and that's the Bob's best one, just to shut up. And see what we are without the thinking. What we are without constructing the identity made of thoughts and experiences. And just, just really taste it. Just taste it. How it is to be without knowing what we are. Yeah, he loves that. He's sitting under every umbrella and everything. The cat. My darling. My darling. My darling. Yeah Bob, you. You go.

Yeah well, Cat's covered it pretty well. It's non-duality as they say. They recognise there can be absolutely no duality in non-duality. So duality, this manifestation is a total fiction. But it couldn't appear outside or separate and apart from non-duality. So when you look at it, so when I say I'm not, can't tell you anything, can't teach you anything. Can't tell you anything and only point and ask you to look to where we're pointing to. See for yourself because nobody's ever going to do it for you. They can pat you on the head with peacock feathers and put, put the thumb between the eyes and do all this crap.

But they're not going to do it for you. And you can sit and meditate and do all these other things for years and years. Why haven't you found it? My darling, well maybe I've been looking in the wrong direction. I've been looking in the mind, trying to find the mind, trying to do something with the mind. But the answer is not in the mind. Because when you investigate you'll see the mind itself is a fiction. There is no such thing as mind apart from thought. Show me a mind if you think there's a mind. Anyone stand up and say this is mind? You realise you can't but we use that term and believe there is such a thing as mind.

So in Hinduism they call it the five factors of Satyajit, Ananda and Namarupa. Sat is existence, Jit is consciousness, Ananda is bliss or the loving to be. And Namarupa, the other two factors are name and form. And the name and form are fiction. But is anyone who is not existing right now or unaware? No, you'll recognise I'm existing. Anyone who's not conscious right now, well I wouldn't be sitting here if I wasn't conscious. Anyone who's not happy to be. So you are already that Satyajit, Ananda. Now the Nam, Namarupa, the name you've got, I'm Bob, so and so and so and so and the form is this so-called human body.

They are, like every other pattern in this manifestation, appearance only. Because the Buddhist will tell you that too. This manifestation is Maya. It's illusion. And it's a phenomenal manifestation. Look up the definition of phenomenal in the dictionary. The definition of phenomenal is that which appears to be. Pointing out everything you're seeing around you, all these appearances, it's just as all it is, it's appearance only. There's nothing solid or substantial about it. But it appears solid and substantial to this pattern, shape and form because we take this to be at least solid and substantial also. But what substance has it got into? What static point can you find in that body when you say I or me?

What are you pointing to? It might feel like a sensation, a sensation, something solid or substantial there. And it's certainly solid and substantial because it's been reinforced every day by our belief in it. But look into it and see. See if there is such a thing as a me or a mine. You believe out of this body and mind, but are you the body? Don't you say my body? Don't you also say my house, my car, my coat? You know damn well you're not the house. You're not the car or the coat. Maybe you're not the body either. And the same thing with my mind.

My house, my car, you're not the mind. Another one is my self. And that's the one we put the focus in and the belief in. Whose self? Oh, me. This idea of me or mine, the conceptual image becomes the seeming self. But there is only one self. It's the absolute self. There's no person. The self we take on as me or mine is a personal self. And it's not a personal self. Where does that word person come from? Doesn't it come from persona, the mask? Pointing out you formed this conceptual image. You put a mask of concepts on that pure essence that you are and taking yourself to be me, Bob the Australian, the good fellow, the not so good, had a bad childhood.

You're not the man. You're not happy. You had a bad childhood. Was abused and unhappy. Oh, my psychological suffering comes about from that belief in the personal self. And that personal self is what we call the reference point or the ego. All our problems are problems of ego or reference point. And when you look at it and investigate, you'll realize there is no such thing as an ego. Well, we struggle and try to subdue or sublimate this ego and all the rest of it. But I don't know. Have you ever looked and seen what you're trying to sublimate or recognise? What's there apart from a conceptual image you have about yourself?

Nisargadatta tells you nothing can trouble you except your own imagination. And that's a fact. And break that word imagination down to image in. Imagine. And realise that's what we're doing all the time. We're creating conceptual or mental images. Taking them to be real, giving them some substance or some relief, and relating to them. All our problems are problems of relationship. Relative to. Relative to this ego. Not the male-female relationship only, but relative to anything whatsoever. When there's one without a signal that's not dual, there is absolutely no duality and non-duality. Relationship is the only problem you'll ever have. Correct? Relationship, from the relative point of view, relies on something other than me, or what I am.

But it's the one essence. So when there's realisation, it's not a personal self that's going to realise. It's not a personal self that's going to liberate. It's not a self that's going to know. It's the self itself that's liberated. It's the self itself that is knowing. It's the self itself that's realised or recognised. It's the way it is. It's the one self appearing, patterning, shaping, forming and expressing as everything. And that's the Mahavakya, the great mantra. I am that. And you all know that in your language. When you learn words you say, that you're sitting on is a chair. That's the carpet. That's the mirror.

That's the house. And all that, which we put labels on. That's you. That's me. We put labels or words on. And understand the words, not the real. There's no word that is the actual. Take the word water. Can you drink the word? Can you swim in it? Will you wash yourself in it? Will you drown? You won't. Does the word fire burn your mouth? Can you cook with it? Can you eat yourself with it? The word's not the real. So what's this word, I or me, when you investigate? And what words were you born with? I'll ask you when did you begin. You'll say, oh, I was born.

But can anyone actually remember your birth? I don't know. I don't know. You can't. And when did it begin? Well if you can't remember your birth, how did it happen? Well go back as far as your father and your mother. That animating life essence, that intelligence energy, and the essence of the food eaten by your father, the prana, the breath and the food eaten, in that pattern formed a little microscopic particle called a sperm. You can't see it with your naked eye. That sperm was suffused with intelligence energy. It didn't have any words, concepts or ideas or images. It was suffused with that natural intelligence energy, just the same as the rest of this manifestation in the universe.

It's all intelligence energy. It's called intelligence energy, the activity of knowing. Intelligence is knowing. And that knowing in the iron genet means it's an activity. So it's something that's going on all the time, the knowing. The same within your mother. In your mother that animating life essence of pattern shape and form, that pattern you call your mother, your father, your mother, enabled in that pattern. Another microscopic particle called an ovum or an egg to form in that. And that egg was suffused with intelligence. It knew what to do also. It attached itself to the wall of the uterus. It wasn't floating around accidentally. It was attached to the wall of the uterus.

The sperm knew what to do. It swam to the ovum. It had the capacity of swimming, again pointing out it wasn't just something useless. And it penetrated the ovum. And when those two came together, that cell doubled and then doubled. And the genes that formed into, formed that pattern which you are today. What were you doing about it then? Did you say I better grow a heart or a lung? Because you didn't have those things when you formed them, that little embryo with the little fetus or something. I'm going to do this or that. You didn't know anything. But the intelligence energy knew what to do.

It grew you. And we don't realize it's growing you ever since. And living you as it was ever since. But when it reached the age of about two, two and a half, the capacity of reasoning developed with you. And up until that point, you didn't have any words. That's what I told you in the Bible. In the beginning was the Word. The Word was with God. The Word was God. That's all that God is, is a Word. A lay will you put on that pure intelligence energy or the essence. And given it something, it's a Word. And given it some substance or something, I go, no.

God made man in his image and likeness. And I think the so-called God is made in my shape and form. But it's not at all. The image and likeness was a pure intelligence energy, the functioning essence, which is the pattern, shape, and form around you. Around us is formed. And at two, two and a half, fussing around your period, you have parents fussing around you, started to speak the language, and you started to learn words when that capacity of reasoning developed. And that's the capacity these human forms have, that capacity to reason, which is much more developed in humans than it is in animals, birds, and insects.

But they have different capacities than what we have. Birds, for instance, have better eyesight than you and me will ever have. And that's the capacity of flying which we all may not have. But through the capacity of reasoning, we've learned to build ourselves up. Kites, what is it now? Eyeglasses, binoculars, and telescopes enable us to see better. Kites, helicopters, and things like this, planes, enable us to fly. So the capacity of reasoning is very useful. But it's also self-destructive, because we reason that I am this separate entity, this person. And all our psychological suffering comes about from relating to that ego, me. So every word you've ever spoken is, has learned.

And the word's not the real. So that's what we do. Instead of seeing it as that, not even using the word that, just that pure intelligence energy, we put whatever label we've learned. That's a chair, that's a carpet, that's me, that's you. And we've lost sight of its true nature. So that a lot of, when they hear, here I am that, have a look, you might not have seen that, or recognize that, we're putting on it now. You've taken it to be a word or just a segment. See what it represents. It represents that sense of presence. That knowing that you are. That beingness. Knowingness.

You can't negate that beingness right now. And that's another thing. We call ourselves human beings. If you believe in a God, you'll call God a supreme being. What happens if you took that word human off, and took the word supreme off? Separate the beingness that's in this room or anywhere else without putting those labels on it. And you might understand why they say it's the one essence or one being that's patterning, shaping, forming, and expressing as everything. It's all being, pure being. And being is not becoming. It never can become. And if we think we'll do this mantra or do this thing, we'll become something.

You've been doing it for years, why haven't you? Maybe it might dawn on you that I've been looking in the wrong direction. Looking for the answer in the moment. Looking for the answer in the mind. And maybe the answer's not there. And when I look at that and ask myself, what direction can I look that's not in the mind? Only the direction that can be looked at without the mind is full stop. Don't go there. What happens if you pause the thought? What can you say without a thought? Can you say it's good, bad, pleasant, painful out of thought? You can't. So thought can be very useful, but it's very self-destructive.

But it's the cause of all our problems. How does that work? Everybody is seeing right now. Ask yourself this. Does my eye tell me I see? Does my ear tell me I hear? You realise the seeing is happening through the eye and it's translated by the thought, I see. Hearing's happening through the ear and translated by the thought, I hear. But can that thought, I see, actually see? You realise, no, the thought itself cannot see. Can the thought, I hear, actually hear? The thought, I hear, can't hear. So you see, the seeing and hearing, the tasting, touching, smelling, are functionally happening. When we put the I see, I think, I hear, I taste, you're referring to this conceptual image that we believe to be real.

And it's not. Where does that leave you? Everybody sitting there right now, has anyone stopped seeing? Anyone stopped hearing? Anyone who is unaware right now? That's another way of putting Sat Chit Ananda. Being, knowing, loving to be, or an awareness of being, is bliss, or is happiness, is joyous. Nothing wrong with it. Anyone unaware right now? No, you know you're not unaware, so you must be aware. You have to look for something called awareness, which we do. We look for something called consciousness or awareness. But you see, it's naturally there. That's what they call it in Buddhism, non-conceptual, ever-fresh presence awareness. Just this, nothing else.

Just this, nothing else. There is nothing else. And that is what you are. So that'll do me for now anyway. Hearing the same stuff over and over. So, you got any questions, arguments, or any doubts? And some of you here have recognised this and seen for yourself, it's not just for the few, it's just not for the one or two. It's available to everybody. They can point that out to you here, some of the people that are here. But if you looked along these lines, you got questions or doubts, bring them up. Somebody might say something that will resonate for you, because nobody can teach you anything or tell you anything.

But all that can happen, you can hear something that will resonate, be recognised. In that recognition or resonation, it'll grow from there. And you might need to be reminded once or twice since, it's seemingly lasted, but it'll grow. Just the same as your body has grown from it, sperm and an ovum. So aging is still growing right now. Life is continually living on life. Out of life, more life comes. And like Christ said, I am the way, I am the truth, I am the life. He wasn't talking about himself. He was talking about that sense of presence that expresses or translates through the mind as the thought I am.

That sense of presence is what the I am is. He said, that is the way. Go to that sense of presence. Stay with that sense of presence because it's presence awareness, not a future awareness or a past awareness. That's just presence. And you are that. Get into it. Venerable Sargonathamini pointed out it wasn't the body or the mind. And this time I was able to see it. And everything dropped away from that that wasn't necessary. Simple as that. Over a period, seeming period of time, it grows and gets clearer. There's more, you know, without a thought. There's nothing but natural, pure clarity there. And Pat Cork talked about the screen.

The screen and everything appears in it. There's that space-like awareness. And the silence, the stillness and the silence. Now, understand what a screen is. You've got a movie screen. You've got all sorts of movies appearing on it. Cowboys and Indians, for instance, they're shooting one another and all the rest of it. Has that screen ever shot to pieces? Has it ever contaminated the world? Has it ever corrupted by anything that appears on it? No. All these human forms and every other form in this manifestation are appearances on that screen. They all... You can't postulate a thinking of anything could be outside of space. What would it be in?

Have a look at that and think of it. What could it be in? If you're postulating anything at all, it'll have to be in space. And where can any sound come from if it didn't come out of the silence and disappear back into the light? So that screen is not contained. It's contaminated. And look at this assassin's situation. It's never been contaminated or corrupted. How does it work? Something comes up and I like it. How do you know? Well, I've had this experience before and I like it. And the things we like, we don't want to go. We want to keep them there. We want to keep them there at any cost.

Not realizing no matter how much you love them, how much you like them, the manifestation is transient. It's constantly changing. They're going to go. But we don't want it to go. So what do we do? We resist it. Try to keep it there. We resist it. Don't you realize that resistance is conflict? Any resistance you are in, you are in conflict. And any conflict you are in makes you uneasy, anxious, fearful or depressed or guilty. All that's psychological, probably, at the moment. And that conflict, uneasiness, is disease. So resistance, conflict and disease. That's going on in you all the time while you're relating to this me.

Something comes up that you don't like. Well, again, you try and get rid of it. So you resist it from being there. Again, resistance, conflict and disease. That's what's going on all the time. But if you're not relating to an entity, to be resistant, you know, what happens? It'll resolve itself. Thank you, the Zen monk in the 16th century. He told you, everything is perfectly resolved in the unborn mind. Nature resolves itself. Naturally and effortlessly. The earth is rolling around the sun right now. Who's doing it? Anyone doing it? Anyone going to stop it or change it? No. Tides are coming in and out. Seasons coming and going.

And that same intelligence is breathing you right now. It's beating your heart. It's growing your hair and your fingernails. It's digesting your food. What are you doing about any of those things? You just got to say, I've got to take my next breath. I'm going to beat my heart, expand and contract my heart and digest my food. You don't. It's happening spontaneously, amen? And effortlessly. It is life itself. And you are that life, like Christ did. I am the way. I am the truth. Go to that sense of presence. That's the way to me. See, it is the life and the truth. Let me highlight just that one little thing because it's the most important part of Bob's spiel and it often starts from here.

You are that already. Because everything is that. There is nothing that would not be that. So there is no way that you could be anything else than that. So the problem is when we start constructing a false self or the mask of identity and we believe that we are that mask, that persona and not the totality itself. That's where the suffering kicks in. But when that mask of identity is questioned, that thinker or that doer or that controller that we think that we have to run our life, then we can figure out that the life runs itself. I don't grow my hair. I don't digest my food.

I don't replace cells in my body. I don't think my thoughts. I don't switch on and off the seeing. It's just happening naturally. Everything is happening. Life knows how to leave things. Like life knows what creatures need, what capacities they need. They know that birds need to fly, whatever, frogs need to crawl or whatever. And then the same capacity we have. If the thought is required, the thought will come up and the thought will resolve whatever needs to be resolved. It doesn't need anyone here inside, any little dwarf or anything that takes credit for a thing. So they call it often Advaita or the non-duality thing.

It's usually a thing. It's the last beautiful dream about the Great Enlightenment. We are chasing ultimate freedom. We are chasing liberation. I am going to achieve Great Enlightenment or ultimate truth. That's the dream that we have to wake up from because the one who wants to get it, this enlightenment, that very one is a fiction. That very one thing that once desires the truth is a phantom. It's the same as Santa Claus. When we were children, we believed that Santa Claus was real and we were getting gifts from Santa Claus. When we woke up from that dream of Santa Claus, it doesn't mean that the gifts disappeared.

It means the phantom, the Santa Claus, just reveals its presence. And we can question everything in the same way. And that mask of personality or that ego, that construct inside that takes credit for actions, that takes that, that, oh, I've screwed up. I'm a failure. I should have done this or I should have grown faster or do more. That very thing is a phantom. This is the awakening. Waking up from the illusion of having separate self. There is no separate self. Life doesn't need the agency. Just like the nature doesn't need the agency. Wind is blowing of its own. It doesn't need anyone to blow it.

The planets are revolving around the sun. By their own. The atoms are constructing matter or the cells in the body are moving. They know where to go, where to transport oxygen in the blood. They don't need agency. So the idea of being a separate doer, that I will be thinking only positive thoughts and not negative thoughts, that's just a thought. That's an idea. The I that is going to do something tomorrow is just a thought. It's an idea. That I is an image. It doesn't have reality. The same way as Nisargadatta pointed to Bob that he wasn't a body, he wasn't a mind. He realized, oh my God, he was nothing.

But he still was. The sense of existence is still there. It's undeniable and it's always there. But it doesn't have any particular identification, location, shape or form. It uses the body just like it uses the car or the coat or the house. But it doesn't mean it is the car, it is the house or the coat. So the life as it expresses itself through every pattern, through the cat is meowing, through the pedophile is raping children, through the rain is wetting the grass, through the tree is growing and bringing fruits, is the same life expressing through various different patterns. So when that identity, that self-center is questioned, now the life relaxes to itself.

It doesn't assume any mask anymore. The life loses its quality of suffering then. So it feels like enlightenment is not really a gain. You're not getting anything. You're actually losing the sense of suffering. Because whatever comes, if there is rainy day or there is storm or there is a volcano or fire, it doesn't happen to you. It's just life expressing itself. If someone stabs me in the back, it doesn't happen to me, it happens to the body. And life expresses as such. So the sense of failure or the sense of achievement or the desires, they still may come up and play on the screen, but they are not mine anymore.

So I can't be bothered if someone loves me or hates me or if I get something or I don't get something. Because this is just one of, infinite number of points in consciousness where the life expresses through this body, it will be whatever, fat and stupid, through this it will be slim and beautiful. It doesn't matter for the life. It doesn't matter whether this particular pattern will get what they want. Viewed from this perspective, life is free to express us whatever it wants. So everything is welcome. If I'm going to get cancer in a few years, well, okay, that's how life expresses and experiences itself here.

Fine. Doesn't mean I won't go to the doctor. Doesn't mean, I don't know. The thought may come up and I'm not going to be thinking it. If the thought come up to go, there may be a going. Or if thought come up to go, there may be not strong enough and there may be no going. But really there is no investment anymore into this extent. And from that standpoint, life flows much more smooth and easy. And there is much more of the openness and much more heart in it. Because instead of self-obsessing about myself, instead of being preoccupied with what people think of me, or what am I going to do, all that self-obsession, self-centeredness that usually takes about 80 or 90% of the thinking, when that one is out of the picture, now I'm much more present to actually hear the birds, to smell the roses, to see people and then maybe do something for them.

If they need the space to be held, I won't be fixing anyone because nobody is broken. Everybody is already that. Whether they know it or they don't, they're already perfect as they are. So I'm not going to be telling people, you know, you're not good enough, you have to learn something or do something or change. Nobody needs to change. If you smoke cigarettes, you smoke cigarettes. Nisargadatta was smoking cigarettes and died of cancer. And he is one of the greatest masters ever known. So really it's just about stepping back from whatever shows up on the screen. If that's a judgment, stepping back, oh, judgment, that's not my judgment.

That's just a passing phenomenon, just like a cloud in the sky. And I am the sky. So even if I'm not, even if the sky is completely clouded, it doesn't touch me. There may be a mental obsession, there may be a story going on. I may be writing books and there will be a lot of thoughts flowing, but it doesn't touch me. I am the sky. I am the sky as awareness. And I am witnessing the glimpses of myself in every expression, looking at the cat, looking at the tree, looking at another person. That's just another way that one essence expresses itself in form. So nothing is mine, nothing is personal.

And everything is just as it is. There is naturally more joy in it because as we all know, when we suffer, we tend to be less attentive, the energy is trapped in the self-center. We are less kind of present, more in the head, less in the heart. And people who are happy, they usually want to share the happiness. They usually want to extend the hand and give someone a hug rather than slap. People who suffer, people who hurt, those are the ones who hurt. They hurt others because they are hurting. So waking up from the persona that is self-obsessed and constantly preoccupied with oneself and suffering is basically not intentionally, but it's contributing to just more joy and love in the appearance.

It's not the intention because as it is, it's perfect. It doesn't need to be any different. It doesn't need to be more loving or more pretty. But from the standpoint of recognition of that one self in every face of it, the love just shows up and you can't help it. Please. The problems that we experience are based on identification with this body. All problems are body problems. All of them. And we walk around believing that we're separate, isolated individuals in this body, walking around, getting in a car, driving around. It's the body that feels separate. It's because we identify with this. It's the body that feels separate.

Feelings will come up in the body. Different energies will come up in the body which we identify with and feel separate from. Others. If there wasn't a body at all, there'd be no notion of being separate. Like at all. Just no notion of being separate. Now that's really interesting. Because if you scan through the body, even if you looked at your right foot, does your right foot have any notion whatsoever of being separate from anything? Does your right leg have any notion at all of being separate from anything? Both your legs. Your legs walking around going, oh God, this is a really scary place, I'm separate from everything.

Torso. Is it walking around saying, oh, this is a really scary place, I'm separate from everything? Your arms. Ears. Nose. Skin all over the whole body. Is it actually the body? That's saying, I feel separate from everything? It's a thought. It's just a thought that says, I'm separate. And because we also have a thought, I am the body, then what happens is, anxiety is experienced in the body, this energy that gets experienced in the body, which we then identify, we then, what we attach to that is, the reason I'm experiencing that is because I'm separate, I'm an individual, I'm isolated, I need to protect myself.

These people in my life are not those people in my life. And we go here and not there. All relating to the body. It's the only thing that logically we could say could possibly be true. Could possibly be separate. But the body doesn't say that. At all. The body doesn't feel separate. A thought. Just a thought. The whole, our whole identity is based on only a thought. That me-ness. You know that, see. And the reason it feels so strong, and so solid, and why that, that sense of me-ness, feels so real, and tangible, and in, in, in the body, is because what it's identifying with is the here-now-ness.

Is the presence. Identifies with that, and calls that mine. Like my car, my coat, my hat, my whatever. My presence. My sense of presence. You know. And that that's saying my, or claiming ownership, of anything, is a thought. Just, like, plain and, absolutely plain, and simply, a thought. And if there, and the, the, me-identity, again, a thought. Because if there was, absolutely blank space, here, where we think thoughts happen. Where we think thoughts happen, right? But if that was just absolutely and completely blank, Bob calls it full stop. If there was no thought going on at all. Zero. There'd be no notion of being separate from.

There'd be no notion of needing to protect. There'd be no notion of needing to push away. But the primary one is there'd be absolutely no notion of being isolated. Separate. And individual. And, you know, if, if one is believing that, that I'm separate, I'm isolated, and I'm an individual, course we're gonna feel scared. Of course we're gonna feel scared. But it's just, it's not, the reality is it's not actually true. It's not true. And, as I started off saying, the only thing that comes to mind that could possibly feel isolated or separate is the body. And the body does not say, I feel isolated and separate.

It doesn't. It's our idea of who we think we are, what we are, which has just all been conditioned in there, by the way. No one's at fault. We're all just, you know, from two, whatever age it is. All this conditioning gets piled in there. And then we start to believe our thinking. We start to believe that I'm a separate, isolated individual. And there's a me here and a you there, and this and that, and here and there, and up and down, and hot and cold, and right and wrong. And that's the duality. That's the dualism that gets impregnated into us. Impregnated? Anyway, you know what I mean.

Indoctrinated. As we're growing up. You know, and we don't do that. We don't have any choice over that. That just happens. But because everybody else around us is doing the same thing, we have no other reference point. Zero, absolutely zero other reference point. Everyone else thinks they're separate and isolated. Everyone else seems to have a me. Why wouldn't I? Like there's no, there's no other reference point. So we just become that. You know. But if you really, really look at it, like, really, you know, the, it's a very, it's a very, it's really just a matter of attention. Awareness is another word. You know, they're going to have all of all of our attention and all of that awareness or that attention rather on what it is that rattles on between our ears.

And if we do that, we're in trouble. We're just like totally in trouble. Or that attention could be on looking at trees, looking at the sky, looking at birds, hearing sounds, smells, sense, beautiful, exquisite tastes, sense, feeling, touch. And we ignore it all. And all that stuff, all those that sensory stuff from the, from the senses is all happening now. And we ignore it. Why? Because we're so conditioned. And we're just habitually, or, you know, I like to say that the absolute primary addiction that all human beings have is the addiction to thought. Primary addiction. That's the bottom line. And everyone is just so addicted to thought.

We can't put it down. We just can't put it down. And it's not even a matter of putting it down. It's just literally a shift of attention. Until it starts to dawn on us, which is what this awakening is about, that perhaps I'm something other than the stuff that rattles on in my head. Perhaps I'm something else. Perhaps I'm not actually that. So that, that awareness, you know, like you hear anybody, all the teachers, all the sages, all the so-called gods, the so-called gurus, everybody that has awoken to their real nature, every one of them says, you're already that. What you're looking for, you already are.

The great joke. What you're looking for, you already are. So it can't be something that I'm going to become. It can't be something that I'm going to find, some new state that I'm going to discover. And I'm going to reside in bliss for the rest of my life. What a... Anyway. Like really, you know. So, so you've got this, like a couple of directions to look here. Really, there's only two. You can either look in here and go, I am that. Good luck with that one. You know, because that keeps changing all the time. Jesus, Jesus, which one am I? No wonder we get so confused.

One minute my self-esteem is okay. Next minute it's shot to pieces. You know, one minute someone loves me, next minute they don't. Or one minute I'm in love with someone, and the next minute I'm not. Like it just, it constantly, constantly, constantly changes. So, there's two things. You're either one or two things. You're either that that rattles on in your head, which by the way, you have no control over. None. So, so much for free will, so much for control, so much for thinking that one is in charge of one life, of one's life, and calling the shots. Because if we were in control of it, I don't know about you, I'd switch it off.

It's a frigging nightmare in there. I would literally just switch it off. Even, even if it was just for a couple of days, look, I'm going to have a break. And I would just switch it off, you know, and then I'd switch it back on in a couple of days and go, oh God, here we go, you know. And then just start, you know, suffering from it. So we're either that, which all the teachings say we're not that. We're not that. All of the teachings say we're not that. Every single soldier. So one or two things. We're either that, or we're this presence, awareness, here-ness, right now-ness.

One or the other. Now, you can live without one of them. You can't live without the other one. Which one can't you live without? You can't live without that presence, awareness. That's real. That's real. That is here. Can't deny it. Bob says you can't say you're not. You'd have to be to say you're not. You know what I mean? Like, it's real. Got one thing that's actually real. And you know it. You like, you absolutely know it. So one's real, one's totally fictitious. And we're buying in to that that's fictitious. We're buying into that that's not actually real. It's only thoughts that rattle through here that says, I am separate.

And it's referring to the body when it says that. The body's not saying it. The body doesn't feel, the body doesn't feel separate. What a load of nonsense. At all. Love you Tony. Love you Tony. Love you Tony. See you buddy. See you buddy. The body doesn't say I feel separate. It doesn't. The body doesn't feel separate. It's not separate. It's connected by space for God's sake. Just for a start. It's connected by space. And we ignore space. We think space is a no thing. Yeah? Try and have any existence without space. You need space for things to be. Yet we think it's a no thingness.

And it's what connects everything. If we want to talk about this space here, then there's a space like awareness that we have. You know, we can prattle on about that. But that's really just a concept until it's actually fully experienced. What gets us stuck is the identification with that that rattles on in here. And it's not who and what we are. It's so not. It's so not. So you got a choice. You really got a choice. Well, you seem to have a choice. You seem to have a choice. If you're here, I'm saying you've got a choice. I wouldn't say they're sitting on the tram to a group of people.

Either keep identifying with what it is that rattles through your head or start to understand that there's something more valuable. There's something much more beautiful. There's something much more precious. It's the ability to be present, to be experienced and just watch the thoughts. Watch it. You're not doing it. Just watch them. And in the watching of them, you start to become aware that there's something aware of them. So I can't beat them. There's something that's aware of them, and that that's aware of them is this presence, is this here-ness. Is this aliveness? And just have a look at the dialogue that goes on about this me that you think you are.

Just have a look at that. Watch it. And say to yourself, you know, who's watching that dialogue about me, that image I have about myself that refers, you're constantly referring to this image you have about yourself, or you call it the me, the separate me. Have a look at that. What's looking at that? You know? Because there's an awareness of it. There's an awareness of it. And so that me that you think you are, that's only a thought. That's not who you are. So that's a thought about who you think you are. And that me is a memory. What's wrong with right now unless you think about it?

That me is a memory of you. Or that me is a projection of you. It's a story about this illusory you. So a description, a description. And as Bob says, the description is not the described. The description is not the actual. It's only a description. And everything that rattles on in our head, every single solitary thing is absolutely purely 100% only. Only. Only. Only a description. It's not the actual. It's totally, it's not the actual. And the insanity is, we take the description to be the real. That's like when Bob says, you know, you can't bathe in the word water. You can't drink the word water.

The word fire won't burn your mouth. And so it's quite hysterical really when you really see it. That you used to feel like some kind of fire burning your mouth. Right? That's it. Yeah. That's it. That's it. think you would become enlightened. So it's sort of kind of really funny you know because it's just a story. Firstly it's a story, the me is a story and this me wants to attain something. This me wants enlightenment. This me wants you know pleasure but not pain. This me wants joy but not sadness. This me wants to attain nirvana. That's all the story. It's just a thought. The whole me construct the absolute whole me construct is nothing but thoughts.

It's nothing but thoughts. It is a story. Can I say something? Yes on the other hand if you're not good enough you're stuffed. If one believes that, yeah. If you believe that, yeah. Totally. That's why we become what we think. Because we believe the thoughts. And the thoughts are only ever a description. Even Shakespeare told us that 200 or 300 years ago. He says, nothing either good or bad but thinking makes it so. And if you look at the mind, see the way it functions, it's always functioning in the dualistic opposite. It's a vibration, a movement of energy. It's either good, bad, pleasant, painful, happy, sad, loving, hating, positive, negative.

The boundaries we put upon it are good, bad, or whatever the label we put upon it. So we're encaged in a label of words. And every word you've ever spoken or ever likely to speak has been learnt. There's no word you were born with. There's no word that is yours. It's been learnt. You're probably picking up new words to this day even. You've only got a dictionary. And forgetting a lot. I'm forgetting a lot of the old words. That's because of legs. Legs. Legs. That's exactly right. Who is that again? And that's why we can't remember back to our birth. No words yet. See, to have a memory, memory is constructed of word.

Isn't it? Words and images. And the image. And we connect the word to the image that we have, the memory that we have. I can remember my house. Like I can see my house when I was six years old. But then I attach my house to it. So all of our memory is all constructed of word. And we get back to, you know, some people can remember back further than others, but it's around about two years of age. I can remember actually a little bit further back than that. But anyway, but around about two years of age, that's when we start to learn word. And when we start to learn word, that's when we, that's when our memory starts to develop.

And then we're able to recall that as we get older. But prior to that, no word. No word, no memory. No word, no me. There's no me there yet. Do you feel that's why it's such a struggle phase moving into dementia, when that memory does go and those words, language starts to go, depending on what type of you have. And then there's that, you see, because I've worked a lot with people with dementia, you see those moments of bliss, but then you see the struggle. Yeah. What I would hazard to guess, not having experienced dementia, or even worked with people that have dementia, is that that that you witness, those moments, those moments of you witnessing them seeming to be blissful, I would say there's nothing going on.

Yeah. Yeah. I would say there's nothing going on. Yeah. Just like the baby, when it's six months old, lying on its back, kicking its arms and legs in the air, giggling and laughing. It's not laughing at a joke that you've just told it. Doesn't understand, there's no words, it has no idea. But there's just this love to be. A love to, and that's our primary love. That's our absolute, that's our primary love, is the love to be. That's your commander. And we will protect that at any cost. At any cost. That's our primary love. We will protect it. If someone was trying to kill me, they'd have a fight in their hands.

Because I'm trying to protect that being as well. Because I love to be. But there's a big difference between loving to be, and loving to be something. Huge difference. Because the loving to be something, that something is a concept. It's not real. It's not an actual thing. It's just an idea. But that love to be, we all love to be. Most of the time. Unless we've gone in the painful story. Yeah. But even then when we're in the painful story, the reason we're able to identify with pain, or fear, or any of that stuff, is because below that is a love to be. And I love not feeling pain.

Oh God, I'm feeling pain. My reference, so there's a couple of reference points there. I love not to that. I love not to be that. I love not to experience that. Pain, fear, separation. At the base it's always love. But we think at the base it's fear. And it's not. It's not. It's not. Often, often in the self-help industry, often they'll go that the base is fear. The reason you're experiencing everything that you're experiencing is fear. And I'm not saying that fear is not there, but there's something underneath that. And it's love. It's total love. In the self-help industry they go, you know, yeah there's love but it's opposite to fear.

Duality. It's a split, you know. But it's a love to be. It's a love to be. But that love to be, that lovingness that is experienced, that love is nothing like the love that we experience in duality. That love that we experience in duality is always conditional. Always conditional. I'll love you if… You know? That's true. It's true. But that love, that sense of presence, that love that you have, that beingness, that core love, the real love, the love to be, nothing like that love that we experience when we're in love with somebody, in duality. It's not that. It's not that, because there's no split in it.

So it is completely unconditional, because there's no split in it. It's not based on the condition. It's whole. And that's our nature. That's our core nature. Divine nature. Divine nature. Divine nature. Beautiful. Self with a capital S. Yes. It's who and what we are. Rather than a small self that we identify with. Yeah. Go for it. It's talk. Yeah, exactly. Not the mask of identity, but this expansion, the whole self. The capital S Self. Yeah. Our divine nature self. Mm-hmm. True nature. True nature. True nature. True divine nature. Mm-hmm. The only thing that we are. Yeah. No such thing as a small S Self. No, but we are.

Yeah. That's what we call our self, our personality self. Correct. That's right. When you believe it, it becomes real, just like Santa Claus. Yeah. Yeah. And it's not real. It's just a bloody thought. Absolutely not. It's just a thought. It's just a thought. It's just a thought. Are you having a breakthrough? Oh, dear. You're right up in the ridge. It's very well said. Oh, dear. Oh. Oh. Oh. That's all right. Yes. Yeah. What a pity. Yeah, yeah. I'm destroyed. Bob has something to say. Yeah. I'm just saying what I said before. Shakespeare told us that way back then. Nothing either good or bad, but thinking makes it so.

It tells you nothing can trouble you except in your own imagination, what you imagine. And talking about fear, fear is just a sensation. We've labelled it before. We've labelled it as this one's fear. And as soon as that same sensation comes up now, we label it fear and load ourselves down with the fear. There's that old fable from the Arabian Zines. This fellow, this traveler was traveling along in Baghdad or somewhere, and he met up with a plague. He says, hello, plague. How you going? Oh, he says, the plague's pretty good. He says, where you going? He says, oh, I'm off to so and so to kill 5,000.

And he says, oh, OK. Good. So the fellow's still working around a couple of months later, and he comes up to meet up with the plague again. And he says, hey, plague. He says, I thought you were going to Baghdad to kill 5,000. He says, yeah, I did. But he says, you can't. You killed 15,000. No. He says, I only killed 5,000. Fear killed the rest. Yeah, and fear, apparently, I read some research that it has very, very similar frequency of the vibration to excitement. So really, the butterflies in the stomach, when they happen before the important exam, we call it anxiety. But when it happened before the date with the beloved, we call it excitement.

It's just the label we stick on. What's actually happening? The space-like awareness and certain vibration going on, pulsation, throbbing of life, certain expression takes place. And now we stick a label on it. This is anxiety. This is fear. And that's it. Now we believe it to existence. We believe it to reality, just like the Santa Claus or the ego. I love that acronym for fear. False evidence appearing real. Yeah. I think that's a perfect acronym. And also, I'm not sure. I'm not sure. I'm not sure. I'm not sure. I'm not sure. I'm not sure. I'm not sure. I'm not sure. I'm not sure. I'm not sure.

No, I get the right amount of energy I need for the singing. I sing, you know. And people say, do you get nervous before you sing? I say, no, I get the right amount of energy I need for the singing. You could label it fear, or anxiety, or whatever, but why do that? I get the right amount of energy to perform. It feels like a vibration. Butterflies or whatever. Mustering this. Yeah, but you're mustering the energy to perform. Yeah, absolutely. So it's great not labelling it a negative. But then aren't we just using the same label? We do. Same thing. Yes. So that's just a sensation also.

It is, yeah. The conditional love, absolutely. Butterflies, yeah, absolutely. Conditional love, but not the love to be. Conditional love, yeah. No, but saying the love to be. That's also just a label. Yeah. Oh yeah. Everything's a label. We've got to talk. We've got to use words. Otherwise we'd just be sitting here going, That's why we keep saying that whatever it is that's being said is a pointer only. It's a pointer. It just, the finger is not the moon. It's just pointing to the moon. The problem is we get stuck on the finger. And then keep going, no, no, the moon's up there. Yeah, yeah, I know.

Yeah. Stop giving people the finger. This is a wrap. I'm worried about Santa Claus, yeah, isn't he? Oh, I agree. And his this, does he get anxious about being able to get around and get everybody there? Yeah, ask him. Yes. Yeah. I'll dress up for you. I'll cover him in Santa. Oh, I want to see that. I think that... I'm proud. Yeah. That's really smart. I keep my illusions alive. As long as you know they are illusions, there's no harm in admiring the story, in falling in love with the story. What a beautiful thing, the thought. What a beautiful thing, the imagination. It's just when you know it for what it is and you don't buy into it.

When the thoughts come in, oh, I'm a worthless piece of shit, I'm laughing. It's a thought. I'm not going to believe it, but three, four years ago, I was thinking that was reality. I sincerely was thinking, yes, I'm unlovable. But that's just a thought. What I am is the life. Who can actually even touch the mystery of that magnificence expressing as every single form and then stick the label on it? But any sort of a mental process, whether it is a labeling or whether it is comparing, or whether it is desiring anything, it's just a movement. It's just another vibration in that whole appearance. So if there is a plan or there is a goal or there is a desire happening, I'm the sky again and I'm watching that cloud of desire moving.

And now in that case, no matter how strong the desire is, it's not mine anymore. So it doesn't really touch me. So I don't want it to stop. Because very often, some of the Buddhist ideas are saying, oh, I'm a worthless piece of shit. Some of the hiện-be-given ideas are saying that, actually, if you are free from the desire and aversion, you're free. And that's a description. That's not a prescription. You can't free yourself from desires or aversions because there is no you to free yourself to start with. And you are not the doer, even if you think there is a you. So if the desires or the aversions show up on the screen, you just basically see them as another cloud passing in the sky.

Good. them getting attached to them there is the quality difference when you say oh but I want it or there is a wanting and it's not about changing the language of course because language is to be used is to be utilized but to actually recognize when it has when I say I'm unworthy and I believe it my body starts producing hormones the cortisol runs through my veins and and I basically just crush and this body is poisoned with adrenaline is the the serotonin production stops is is crushed but when the same thought appears and it's totally recognized just as a movement just as a thought none of that stuff going on none of that is happening actually it's kind of humorous it is from the from the people who are in the room and the people who are in the room and the people who are time perspective is humorous that I could ever embody that embark that journey and just really go for that trip and believe it believe anything at all because everything really can be questioned including the solidity of the physical forms like science has done it long ago has looked into the atoms and see that they are just the field of potentiality just the spinning spinning sort of electrons which have no mass or they say the masses and energy and energy is mass multiplied by light speed square whatever but they know it we can't really see it because the device that we are using the little cameras that we are looking through is tuned in the way so it sends the objects are solid and the belief that goes into and floods that objects that we deselected out of this homogeneous blob of existence is we assured its existence this machine works as a projector as transmitter receiver I call it a chair I assert its solidity and it becomes a chair and not only my senses my seeing hearing tasting touching smelling assert to its existence we have collective assertion of this existence so that's how the Maya is being constructed from within that life uses itself is just like ocean waving so now we have this waves made of the water we have the forms made of emptiness and and water play when a sin for what it is it becomes even more magnificent because not only I say yeah but that's bullshit illusion is not a big deal no is even bigger deal because now it is safe to watch because nothing can ever happen to me even if that body is dead or even if that body is tortured doesn't matter I the life and still here dancing my dance and it doesn't mean that the body will not defend itself of course what it will do everybody is is equipped with that survival instinct plus this particular one is equipped with the reasoning capacity which brings on top survival strategies that are much much more complex than the animal world can have and that's beautiful too to actually see them as impersonal every behavior is impersonal that's why people who wake up they often stay assholes I mean not that often but quite but it happens that people who actually realize that separate self is not a case is just a phantom but they have a horrible habits they have habits of smoking or drinking or gossiping behind your back they still keep that habits because there is nobody there to stop it well often as a byproduct when this presence lands the interest in the thinking lessen over time as Bob was saying 42 years ago he walked out of Nisargadatta room and he was caught up in the story right away he thought he'll never get caught up in the mind again but because we were practicing that habit and he was practicing it for 40 years prior to it for the few years prior to it so the habit continues it goes on the thinking habit even the self-obsessing habit may go on although over time as that affection that reacquired taste for the pure presence the quality of hearts the quality of being of that home sort of relaxing peaceful state of of impersonal witnessing when this one comes forth the mind is not as attractive anymore because for lifetime we got all the thrill from the mind all the thrill from the stories from a juicy dramas they so they so juicy I mean we still watch the movies I mean we we watch mostly documentaries about nature but we do watch other movies also because they are beautiful stories are beautiful yesterday we were talking about people the ways people find to actually suffer immensely they have the story and they suffer and the suffering is so real when is believed that this is this is all this is all beautiful in a way when you see it for what it is when you don't need to believe it anymore it all relates to the ideas there's a separate center there or self there everybody's seeing hearing tasting touching smelling thinking right now the thought comes up I see as soon as the thought comes up I say what do you do you formed a seer I see the chair or the table and because they come that the seer becomes the object and the subject and what's seen becomes the object so seeing has been divided into subject object you ability but can there be a seer without seeing can there be the seen without seeing there can't be they're not divided at all only conceptually what we think that's the same with thinking tasting touching smelling we form this conceptual image and taking it to be real and that was put upon us because our parents told you you little Johnny or little Billy or whatever you are you believed it then you learnt more words and added on to them and then your schools as a society and everybody else were reinforcing that those words and you're reinforcing yourself every day for the rest of your life until you question it something will lead you to questioning and look at it others might not but there's just those still just pure functioning going on and the truth eats away the lie and there's no one to do it nothing to do nowhere to go all of a sudden you see there's not a reaction that used to be there or a habit that used to be there it just nothing you've done it just drops away because there's no you to do anything no reference point really no reference but you just go on you know it's a noticing what you were saying before about the separate objects you know some some sort of radar or if we had different eyes it's this energy going away from the object so it's blended so it's like if you had a drop if you drop pebbles in different parts of the pool or something you wouldn't talk about objects you talk about centers you know mm-hmm yeah it just totally depends how the information's coming into the mechanism as to how it gets leg spacious mm-hmm what's the trip yeah you'll notice it may quiet Mary I'll be impressed woman room yeah yeah yeah so thoughts and words even ready to say you know the day how useful in the dream As long as, as I said before, we realize that...

What is the word? The word is not the thing. Yeah, we take it for what it is and not believe in it. But because... Even dark. It's a must. We have to have words. Like you said before, otherwise we're not talking. And thoughts will come. If I'm thirsty, the thought will come. But if I'm thirsty, so as long as we understand, you know... Who's it come to? It's not coming to you. You're just picking it up, sort of... Yeah, that's right. That's right. It's just expressing itself. Yeah, it's not your thought. Or mine. If the body needs the drink and the thought comes up and the body grabs it and the body drinks it, it's nothing personal.

That's right. Yeah. Impersonal awareness. Anything? Yeah, questions. I don't have any questions. That's great. That's wonderful. That's the place to be. They say that actually the questioner is the question itself. The awakening is awakening from the seeker. When the question drops off, there's nobody who would say there's anything wrong. So there's really end of the seeking. End of the questioner, end of the questions, end of the seeking. And we all know it from moment to moment. Then the question may kick in again. And then they can see, oh yeah, a question. It's just a movement in the mind. And I'm the sky. So that's the place to be.

The work going on at Yale and Harvard with these new high-speed fMRI machines tracking the various processes in the brain seem to be concluding that finally there are two centers in the brain, one which generates a sense of being in space and the other which generates a sense of separateness. So it could be that the body itself, given that it's living in duality, has that as its reality. Absolutely. The body's not living in duality, though. From its perspective. There is no perspective from the body. That's what Cherry was saying before. There's no perspective. It's only when you label it. There is no split in the body.

There is no duality in the body. Where was the duality before you learned it? Where was it when you were a child? Can you see that? The time you were born until you were two years old. What he's saying is actually that, yes, the science says that the body, just the same way as the body generates the body, it has its immune system. It has its heart. It pumps its blood. There's no duality, but still there is a heart and a liver in the body. In the same way, there is a brain in the body, and that brain has two separate chemispheres, or whatever you call it, and one is the left one, is responsible for the language, and that one hallucinates separate self, the languaging self, the image made of thoughts.

And there is a right one, which is location in space, which is completely functional. So that one was... One is creative and one is imagination, and the other one is function. That's right. And then the one that is made of language and is structured with language is actually generated by part of the brain, I think it's amygdala or whatever, that is responsible for hallucination. It's the same part of the brain that is activated when you take psychedelic drugs. And this one actually is hallucinating separate self moment to moment, is the process of the computer. It's just a process that has been conditioned since early childhood, for whatever reason, perhaps for not really a reason of the body, maybe for the thoughts.

They are little creatures, they want to have a little bit of a host, they want to explore the world and exist too. They love to be as well. So now, if the thoughts are there and there is a separate self to hang onto, suddenly thoughts have so much more of a field of expression. But for whatever reason, there is a hallucinatory self that is languaged as a conceptual image. And there is a locational self that is fully functional for the body. The body needs to know its location, it's connected to the senses. And animals have that too. When the big cat is jumping to kill its prey, it has that sense of location, it uses it also.

But it doesn't have the language, the languaging self that tells me I am little Johnny, I'm Polish or whatever, or English or whatever. So this self has been conditioned and thank God, if it wasn't, there wouldn't be an awakening. If we didn't believe ourselves to be the other, if the life didn't create the game, the way, so now I as infinite one believe myself to be the other, to be something separate and isolated, how would I ever wake up and realize oh my God, this was just a dream. I could not be anything other. But I believed it, so now I can appreciate it. Animals don't seem to be very taken by their natural state of enlightenment.

They take it for granted. They never lost it. Well explained, Kat. Very well explained. That's only words that can be easily taken apart too. But sometimes things are clear. Sometimes things aren't. That was very clear. Thank you. Bob is showing me. We actually started a couple of minutes later. Thank you for looking after it. If anybody has one last question or something, last sharing or something to add because... Not today. Not today. Not today. Not today. That's wonderful. You were inundated yesterday. Mm. Mm. Mm. You got me in the hot water. She got a little more into it. Yes, ma'am. Oh, that's just so good.

Mm. That's, yeah. Yeah, wonderful. When the questions don't arise, that's the place to be. And when they do arise, that's fine too. I mean, gosh, they're beautiful. Why not?