Sailor Bob - Non Duality. On basics. 6 Nov 18

We have the day off. We should go home early. I don't mind that. Yeah, so we usually start from saying the names so we know each other. So you're Valerie and Tony, Tony. He is Bob and I'm Kat. Yeah, so you want to start? No, you can start. Okay, so the non-duality. As you mentioned, as you heard from Terry, is the base of all the traditions. Like in Buddhism you have part of non-duality that says that. What is it? Self-shining, ever-fresh, presence awareness. Just this, nothing else. And just this, nothing else, basically means that everything else is bullshit. I mean, it's only the presence of awareness or awareness of presence that is self-shining and is always there that matters.

And nothing else. Nothing else, nothing else. Everything else, Buddhism call it Maya or illusion. Actually, Hinduism call it Maya. Hinduism. Hinduism, yes. Buddhism call it... Sonsa. Yes, and also they call it form is emptiness. Emptiness is form. Basically showing that whatever is, that emptiness shapes all the forms. It actually manifests itself as a form. So basically, if the presence awareness is the reality and everything else... Everything else is illusion, is not real. Like self-shining, ever-fresh, presence awareness, just this, nothing else. So nothing else is real. Means that the whole world of the appearances is not real. Starting from the body, starting from any material object, sounds, sights.

And most of all, the self-image that we have of ourselves, that's not real. In Hinduism, the Advaita Vedanta, they say that yes, the world is Maya, is illusion. Is illusion. It's a phenomenal manifestation. You want to add? That's what I say that in Buddhism. In Hinduism, they call it Sat-Chit-Ananda. Being, knowing or loving to be, is the way it's translated. Or existence, consciousness, bliss. Or awareness of being is bliss. Different ways they put it. And the other two factors are Namarupa, name and form. And the name and form are Maya or illusion. And the Buddha adds to that when he talks about it. The name and form or the manifestation is Maya.

It's a phenomenal manifestation. What's your dictionary definition of phenomena? That which appears to be. So you, me and everything in this manifestation is appearance only. But the very life essence of you is the same essence as rolling the earth around the sun, causing the seasons to come and go, forming galaxies out there, planets, stars and all the rest of it. And it's breathing you. It's beating your heart, growing your hair and your fingernails. And so that one essence is doing everything. And we've taken on this idea we're a separate entity, an individual, or a person. Where does that idea of person come from? An ancient language, I think it was Greek, persona, the mask.

Pointing out we've got this mask of identity on ourselves. Your name and form, the label you put on yourself. And we take it to be real. It's only a label, the same as the label here. Bob, that's not what I am. I am that awareness. Uncontaminated presence awareness. Are you unaware right now? Are you unaware right now? No, you're aware. Are you conscious? No, you're conscious. Are you aware? Are you happy to be? Yes. Well that's the blessing of loving to be. So you are that search engine. Now who do you take the I or the me to be? Who do you take the I or me, when you say I am happy, whatever you're referring to?

Yes. And what's the ego? Vanessa? Valerie. Valerie. So ego is what, it's our personality that you take on? Yes, a label you put on. And is the label the realm? Can you say the word water is water? The word fire doesn't burn your mouth. So the word I and me, is that what you really are? You need to investigate it. See this ego is a fiction. There never was such a thing. Ego brings around a sense of separation. Me, we call it me or myself. But how many selfs are there? When the Buddha will tell you the great perfection is self shining, ever fresh presence awareness, just there's nothing else.

It's only the one self that's appearing, patterning, shaping, forming and appearing as everything. And the things that appear in it are the Maya or illusion. Things. You and I are things. What are we appearing in? Space. Space. Silence or stillness. Now the space or the stillness is no thing. Is it? Can you give space a form? Can you give the silence a form? No, space and form are no thing. Can something come from nothing? Can something come from no thing? Big bang. Big bang. That's a thing. That's a thing. When did that happen? Can you postulate a time when it happened? We'll say billions of light years, but then when you investigate time, is there such a thing as time?

Is there a past if you don't think about it? Is there a future if you don't think about it? So past and future are concepts, mental concepts. But you'll say I was in the past. I'll say well try and go back and live a moment ago. Try and go back and live yesterday. Or later. Or last week. Can you? No. You can only live in this presence right now. And the same with the future. Can you anticipate and imagine a time when you leave here or what you'll do next? Yeah. No, the imagination is not the actuality. So you see, you don't have to try and stay in the now, which people try and get out of it.

It's always this immediacy. Everything is happening in this moment. Fresh and new each moment. Ever fresh. Presence awareness. Presence is right here in nowness. Awareness is the knowing of that right now. So you are that presence awareness. Not the pattern, shape and form you put on yourself. And have a look at that. When did you begin? No, there's no beginning. But you'll say I began at birth. But can you remember your birth? So how do you know you began at birth? Only what people have told you. And you see other things being born, but you can't remember your birth. Well, when did you begin? Well, have a look at that.

Well, go back to your father and your mother. That life essence, the animatic intelligence energy, eaten by the food and the prana, the energy and the food eaten by your father, enabled in that pattern a little microscopic particle called a sperm to form. You can't see it with your naked eye. The same animatic life essence in your mother made another little microscopic particle called an ovum or an egg to form. Now that ovum or egg, though you can't see it with your naked eye, was suffused with intelligence and energy. Knowing what to do, it knew what to do. It attached itself to the wall of the uterus.

And the sperm, same intelligence and energy, knew what to do. It swam the ovum. It had the capacity of swimming. And it knew where to swim. And it knew where to swim to. And when those two came together, what did that soul do? Embryo. Hmm? Formed an embryo. Yeah, formed a little embryo, a little fetus. And that's what you are today. That little embryo and fetus has grown and grown every day. And that's what you are today. So how can you say you are this human form? Or person? We'll take it on the blue. But about, you know, when you were born, you didn't have any words for the last ten years of your life.

You didn't have any words. So that's why you can't remember your birth. And then when your capacity of reasoning developed in you, and the Tibetan's will tell you that, there's a reasoning capacity in these human forms. When that capacity of reasoning formed in you, you'll begin to learn words. Learn words of your parents and your father. And realize that, that every word you've ever spoken, or ever likely to speak, has been learned. Because you were not born with any words. And you're probably using, learning new words to this day. And forgetting old ones, you know. You've got a dictionary there, you pick up new words out of it.

So, you must realize that you can't be the word. The word is not the thing. Have a look at that. Every word you've learned, but the word's not the real. Because you can't drink the word water, you can't, the word fire won't burn you out. What's this I or me, when you start looking at it like that? Well, there you go, the self-center. You've got to see the I and me. That's me, Valerie. Me, that's for human form. But not realizing you put that label on it. All these words we've ever learned are labels we've put on the word. This is good, this is bad, this is pleasant, painful, this is happy, this is me, that's you.

And the five factors set you to Nanda Namah Aruba. They tell you the Mahavakya or the great mantra is I am that. That is what I am. That sets you to Nanda Namah Aruba. But we've, because we've learned words, we don't believe that. We take I am, that's this body, mind, this ego. So we put the label on the, I, dear, or me, as me. We think me is myself. But you know you're not the body or the mind because you say my body by the same token. But you're not the body. You say my mind. Don't you say my house, my car, my coat, my hat.

Are you the coat? Are you the car? Are you the house? Are you the cat? You're not. They're all mine. So when you say myself, maybe you're not that self either. You're the, you've got the conceptual self you've taken on board. But you must be the real self. The one self. And that's why I say it's no personal self. That person, that self we call me or I, that becomes a personal self. That's me, Valerie, the good girl or the bad girl or the unhappy girl or the sad girl. Whatever conscious steps you put upon you. And they're the egoic images you've got about yourself.

And that implies me and the other. This is me, but that's not me. So when the idea comes up, me and not me, what have you done? You've separated yourself from the totality into the believed inseparate entity, me and the other. But is there any separation? Only appears to be so. And you look at this ego, you can't do much with the I or me, so what we've done is we've separated ourselves. We've added to ourselves events, images, concepts, ideas and forms that are added onto that. Me or I. To give it seeming some substance, some solidity. I'm Bob, I'm Australian, I'm a good fellow, I'm not so good, I'm unhappy, I'm depressed, I was abused, I'm anxious.

All these concepts are added onto that I form. And we take them to be real. Put the energy of belief into them and take them to be real because we never question them. But when you look at it another way and say, the I is just a label, we put on that essence. So we've added all these concepts to this I, now we've got this substantial entity, me, Bob. And what happens to that? Something comes up, and me, Bob, I like it. How do you know? Well, I've had it before. It's good. And we don't want good things to go. We want to keep them there.

Not realising this manifestation is transient. It's constantly and ever changing. Look as it is right now. Even your body's changing. You haven't got the same body you walked in this room with. You just still say, I and me. There are thousands of souls dying in it right at this moment and being replaced. So it's constantly transient, changing. So something comes up and we like it. We don't want the good things to go. Try and keep them there at any cost. Not realising that they're transient. No matter how much you love them or how much you want to keep them there, it's going to move on.

They're going to die. They're going to leave you. They're going to change. Just as long as you're going to change. We don't want it to go, so we try and keep it there. In trying to keep it there, what are we doing? We're resisting it from going. Thinking we're resisting it. And don't you realise any resistance you are in, you are in conflict. Resistance is conflict. And any conflict you are in makes you unhappy, depressed, anxious, fearful, guilty, jealous, envious. All that's coming about because of this resistance. So what happens when the bad things come up? Aversion. Aversion. Yeah. Greed, aversion. Well you don't like them.

Instead of trying to get rid of them, we try to keep them there. We try to keep them there, we try to get rid of the slight. So again there's resistance. Again conflict. Again there's a... So see all this egoic image, relating to that constantly, it gets you into all these psychological problems. What happens if you're not resisting anything? Just leaving it as it is? Acceptance. Not accepting or rejecting, just leaving everything as it is, unaltered, unmodified, uncorrected. Where are yesterday's thoughts now? Where are last week's thoughts? Where are tomorrow's thoughts? Haven't happened yet. Haven't happened yet. You see, this constant resistance is going on, it's keeping these thoughts there longer than they should be.

Leave them as it is. What is? I tell you that in the dog chin teachings too, Tibetan Buddha. Leaving things as it is, is leaving unaltered, unmodified, uncorrected. Just leave everything as it is. And like yesterday's thoughts, which are gone now, but they hung around longer than they should have, because we put the energy of belief in them. The fear and anxiety stuck around. The jealousy around them stuck around longer than they should have. But if you're leaving everything as it is, it's quicker to move on. And you're going to be free of them. How long does a cloud stay in the sky? How long does a cloud stay in the sky?

Until it rings. Hmm? Until it rings. Yeah. Which might be very quickly, or the wind might blow away, or it'll come down as rain. It doesn't stay very long. And there's no cloud attached to the sky. How many thoughts attached in your head? Well, that's what you need to have a look and see how many are. If the thoughts, the clouds are not attached to the sky, and yesterday's thoughts are gone, aren't you going to realise, well, there's not so many thoughts attached to my head after all? And when you're free of the thoughts, you're free to refresh your new thought again. For the feeling, thought, feeling or emotion.

You see, they're all one and the same thing. You can't burst into tears right now. First a sad thought will arise. Keep it there for a long while, the emotion will come up. Keep that emotion there for a little while, and the tears will come. See, that's, and the fears and all that, see how things are working. And it's all because of this thinking. Shakespeare told you that, a couple hundred years ago. He says, nothing either good or bad, but thinking matches that. That's true. What's wrong with right now, if you don't think about it? What can you say without a thought? What can you say without a thought?

Nothing. Nothing. You can't say it's good or bad without a thought. You're not labelling it. And it's free to move on. You can look along these lines and investigate and see for yourself. Or you can do all sorts of practices and try and get rid of it. But you've probably done a lot of practices looking at this stuff now. Why haven't you got rid of it? Yeah. And realise also, you're looking in the wrong direction. You're thinking you're going to fix it with the mind, with another thought, with another concept. But when we say here, the answer's not in the mind. That's why the ancients called it the, you'll never ever get peace of mind.

The ancients called it the peace that passes all understanding. Because if we can't be grasped with the mind, and understanding is sinking, so a peace that passes beyond the thinking, that's where the peace is. Look along those lines and see for yourself. And then you realise you looked for it so many times in the mind, couldn't find the answer. It might just dawn on you after a while, maybe I've been looking in the wrong direction. I've been looking in the mind's answer. That's not there. Instead of trying to keep fuming, futilely searching for it, by this practice or this meditation or this, this and that.

Maybe if I'm looking in the wrong direction, what way can I look which is not in the mind? Hmm? She's like... Out of the mind. Out of the mind. Yeah. Yes, exactly. When you realise that, that's good. And what way can you get out of the mind? Full stop. Full stop. What's wrong with right now if I don't think about it? You've got to pause the thought for that. And with the other thought, you haven't disappeared, you haven't fallen apart. You let that satiate and ananda, the loving to be rise up in you. Because it's not being filtered through a conceptual image or it's not being filtered through a past event or experience or an anxiousness or a fearfulness or anything.

Just let this as it is. Not impeded, not anything. It's rise up naturally of itself. And you'll start to recognise the joyousness of life. Of being. Being, another way of putting it, being, knowing and loving to be. Are you not being right now? You're being. There it is. But don't add the this and that to it. I'm being valoury or this or that. Just pure being. And you know that in your language too. You call God, if you believe in a God, the supreme being. And you call yourself a human being. What if you take that label human off and take that label human off and you say, I'm being this and that and I'm being this and that.

And take the label supreme off and try and separate the beingness in this room without putting a label on it. And you realise that's being a chair, that's being a you, that's being a carpet, that's being me, being the paintings on the wall, that's being outside, being all the trees, the flowers. It's only that one being. And you are that being. Not many beings, just the one. That's non-duality. One without a second. So you can have a go now. Vitamin in a nutshell. More to the point than that, I think it's a good question. I think it's a good question. Are you studying different philosophies?

You just look around the field? Because... I'm interested. So I'm kind of having an understanding of different philosophies. But I'm more into Tibetan Buddhism. But I think it ties in with the non-duality part. The core of Buddhism is emptiness, which says that something is not independent of its part. So nothing... Nothing... Nothing has inherent existence. So it's empty of inherent existence. So that ties in with non-duality. It does, yes. And you actually... Can you actually see it? Do you really understand it? I haven't fully experienced it, but on an intellectual level, I can understand it. But I haven't experienced it myself, like without the intellect.

I haven't... Me either. Okay. Isn't that an experience when you pause the thought? There's nothing wrong with that. But then the thoughts come flying back to you. But appreciate that moment. Temporary. Temporary. Like doing meditation. Yeah, that's good. You appreciate that you can do that. Not everyone can see that. Well, are you unaware right now? I'm aware. I'm aware. I'm aware. Are you not being right now? I'm being. Are you happy to be right now? No. What? I'm happy to be. I'm happy to be. Okay. I'm happy to be. I'm happy to be. I'm happy to be. I'm happy to be. I'm happy to be.

I'm happy to be. I'm happy to be. I'm happy to be. I'm happy to be. It's okay to be. I'm not suicidal. Yeah, depending. Like happy. It depends on the definition of happiness. It still comes back in. Yeah. Well, the other way around. Can you negate it? You say you're not... You are being. Can you negate that being? It knocks you out of the day. I'm being. Yeah, well, you're being. So you are already there. Yeah. But I'm trying to like make myself fully aware that I'm already there. Me too. Me too. I would get it some time. Some future time, I imagine. What way would you be fully aware of it?

When? When I'm awakened? Are you asleep now? I'm awake in a dream. Yeah. No, I'm awake but I'm still in a dream. But you know you're in a dream. Yeah, but I haven't fully experienced it. But the thing is, you're not fully awake. And what's blocking that fully awakeness is the thoughts and feelings. Yeah, and there's your answer. Pause is fine. So if you stop thinking that you are not fully awake, if you stop thinking that there is something that has to be grasped in the future, if you stop thinking that there is something that has to be grasped in the future, if you don't think for a moment at all, there's nothing wrong.

That's it. That's it. Seriously. People think that enlightenment is some huge event that comes with the fireworks and the... And the big bang. Yes, and people think that now I am enlightened, so I have all the wisdom and all the understanding and all that. The enlightenment is the dissolution of the I. There is a very vast empty shell of the body, and there is sounds, sights, everything expressing through the body, but there is no one here inside. There is no little dwarf inside or little ego or whatever we call it, little I, that says, oh, I have understood or I have grasped it. Enlightenment is the absence of that little thing.

It's just life expressing freely. So if you stop thinking, there is no ego. Because you have to ego is made of thoughts. Just for a fraction of a second you don't think, you answered Bob twice already, there's nothing wrong with right now unless you think. So if you don't think, there's nothing wrong. There is no ego. There is no one to grasp anything. There's nothing to become. Enlightenment in future doesn't exist. This is all in imagination, all in thoughts. So the moment when you pause the thought, you're already fully empty of any inherent existence like Buddhism says. You empty, you're free from the ego, you're free from beliefs, you're free from any obstacles.

In that fraction of a second you are pure existence expressing and experiencing itself as everything. Only when the thought comes, thought will tell you, no I am this and the world is not me. The thought creates the separation. So in that moment between the thoughts you are already fully enlightened, fully awake in the dream. Yes, in the dream. The dream goes on. But the dream is not the problem. Like Bob met Nisargadatta 42 or 43 years ago and since then he is awake in the dream. And the time will come when he will be awake from the dream. But let's not look forward to it.

Let's hope he will stay here as long as he can. Because when you recognize dream for what it is, when you recognize dream for a dream, it doesn't hurt anymore. Yes. And you know, oh yes, but I'm stupid and ugly and I'm not getting it and I'm not enlightened. And then you know, oh it's just a thought. You don't even listen to it. It doesn't matter. It doesn't hurt you. You don't take it on board. So it doesn't really do anything. Like any thought that comes through my head, it's just a thought. So whether it is a good thought, positive thought, negative thought, who cares?

For even the thought that all these little moments have to be holding hands forever, or even with tiny breaks, it's just a thought. A random prioritization over lots of, you know, the odd little moment when the stop happens. Or all of them holding hands. So I've never had the holding hands moments very long at all. But I have, you know, maybe a hundred or hundreds of little ones in a day or maybe four, you know, in a day. But there's just a turning up to this sort of stuff and more and more of them happening. And the more joy, things are lighter because there are just less moments of thought really.

And you know, reactions. It's a bobbed back. It's a bobbed back. Bob has a reaction response thing I find useful. Response is just like, you know, I used to work with a guy with an intellectual disability and when it started raining he was going like that, you know. And then I realized I was going, oh no, rain is horrible. And I just went like that and I was like, no thought about it. I was having fun. It was just responding. There was a response to the moment instead of reactions and holdings and body responses and thoughts and feelings. Yeah. Non-attachment. Yeah, non-attachment. That's a good concept also, quite helpful.

Because if you recognize everything as the appearance, as a passing cloud, you don't attach to the cloud. You just let them come and go. Thoughts, feelings, emotions, scenes, sights, everything. Something moves you to look into non-duality. Your life intelligence is doing it. Yeah. Duality. Dualism. Dualism is the only problem we've got because it's non-dual. One without a second is only the one essence. Patterning, shape, and form. Averyism comes from dualism. Capitalism, communism, Catholicism, Protestantism. Judaism. Yeah. Poverty. Poverty. Poverty. Poverty. Poverty. Poverty. Poverty. Poverty. Poverty. Poverty. Poverty. Poverty. Poverty. Poverty. Poverty. Poverty. Poverty. Poverty. Poverty. Poverty. Poverty. Poverty. Poverty. Poverty. Poverty. Poverty. Poverty. Poverty. Poverty. Poverty.

What is the one big group concept even when you're not thinking about it? Non-duality says that there is just one essence. Everything is made of one essence just like every wave is made of the same water, of the same ocean. There's no room for two. Everything is just basically one. It only labels those separate things because as you know from physics, there are just a bundle of electrons floating here and around in the space. There's not more in this one than there is in this space. There's nothing else. it is here. It's just more or less the same. It's just that through the conditioning and the way we are kind of learned to label things and hear the sound in silence, the device, the body-mind machine is equipped.

The world has been segregated, separated, organized into separate units. But objectively there is nothing separate here. Just like the waves are not separate from the water that they are. So everything that says there is more than one is already called duality. So in communism it's already duality because there is communism and non-communism. So that's already two. Yes, I heard that duality is also part of non-duality. Yes, they are both. Two ends of the one stick. You can't have a one-ended stick. You say you are looking at the Gita. I started reading it but I haven't got far. Well, I'm telling you the fire can't burn.

The fire can't burn itself. The wind can't dry itself. The water can't wash itself. The air can't breathe itself. Badavat Gita is about the fight. Arjuna and… That's him. That's some of the statements. Oh, yes. Most of the attention goes to the war. Yes, but really basically the non-duality is all about just finding out if the… well, that's the shortcut. The easiest way out of the suffering that Buddha was talking, there is a way out of suffering, is to actually see if there is really anyone there who is suffering. Who is that me that is suffering? Who is that, like when Bob was saying, that one who wants the attraction and repulsion or the aversion and the desire.

Who is that one who thinks that this moment as it is is no good or this body as it is is no good? It should be better. It desires something. Okay. I don't want it. I don't want an extra two kilos. I want some extra money. You know, that pattern, that movement in the movement of the mind saying that reality as it is, is no good. It has to be changed. It has to be bettered, beautified. That me, that object that has these preferences and it relates everything is called ego. But is it real? When you look inside, what is it that wants to whatever, have more to more money or more whatever.

Or what is it that doesn't want... What is it that actually wants the world different than it is? Other than just a stream of thought. Because... I keep forgetting all this. I remember a lot. Yes. Yeah, and then, you know, the one who forgets and the one who remembers is not who you are. Because the remembering and the forgetting is just another stream of thought. It's like the desire is a movement in the stillness, is the grasping movement. Or the resistance is the pushing away movement. When I remember, I can pause the thought. When I forgot. But even... Come back as much as I can.

Yeah, I do. Spontaneously pops out more often. I do. Mostly. Mostly, I guess. Every day, I work on that. And then you start to see it's not you working on it. You just notice that it spontaneously happened. Out of nowhere. Yeah. And pausing the thought is just really required once. Really. If you actually... I know. Yeah, just for once, if you see that without the thought, you don't fall apart. You're still existing. You're still conscious. Even without thinking, the world is going on perfectly well. The seeing is happening. You know? The body is... Seeing, hearing, tasting. All that stuff I've learned here. Yeah. Makes perfect sense.

So now, you don't really need to pause the thought ever again. You already learned from whatever you... From this little pause in the thought, you've already learned everything you ever needed to. And it'll probably pause itself then. Yeah, it causes happen. Yeah. Yeah. Sometimes a little phrase, pause the thought, might turn up at the same time. Yeah. You'd have to start making shit up, basically making stuff up, to assume one leads to the other. Or... What? What the causality might be, you know, because really you just notice an ocean popping up. You notice... And I've noticed a space where nothing's going on, and I've noticed a belief that was there before, and I've also noticed it after.

Hmm. So, you could say it dropped away in one case, and it turned up afterwards in the other. I've noticed both. And... But I know that there was emptiness, and a specific thing that was on either side. There's a memory of what it was, and what it was like to be there. there so you know you just don't really know so it's suspicious that certain pointers are popping up but that's all you can say about it you know suspiciously there was an empty moment suspiciously a certain point has turned up um but i'm pretty grounded and that they are just just turning up like to me it doesn't seem any other way but although i'm in the light cloud yeah i don't really notice things like the spontaneity of things popping up there's just a stream of stuff going on you know yeah so tony you don't really struggle with that one anymore either you know that things just just pop up yeah the blah blah blah the thoughts the commentary the scenery the sounds everything there's no difference that's absolutely fine yeah so you're not doing any of it you know that you're not doing it you know yeah thoughts of you know words all that stuff and you notice there's no deception in this decision making maybe yeah decision making is is absolutely there but is there someone a person that is doing that process well i can see that i could be choosing and i choose the loved one but who is the who is the choice maker you see this could be my core being yeah yeah but can you describe that core being the one who is actually performing action i sort of feel like the core one is my immediate response to a situation you know and then and you also car accident or something you know that one might help without thought and you are aware of it right you are aware of that core being popping out well you just notice an activity happens i noticed an activity happens well there you already don't believe in the core being well my perception let me please yeah notice when especially especially when there is seeming apparent choice to be happening that you have seemingly option number one choose love option number two choose fear see if there is if there is anyone who actually makes a choice or is it just a natural pool toward one option a natural freshness to see because it is not really-still not yet-to-lethal Push towards the other.

See if there is just movement or is there somebody that does a choosing. It just feels more like movement. There you go. So movement is something like, is there anyone who is blowing the wind? Or is that a movement of the branches on the trees? What is it? That one of the flag and the tree? Yeah, exactly. Yeah. And same with attraction to love rather than fear may happen at some points. And some other points there may be completely different movement happening. It depends on the environment. You know, if you have the lion out free from the zoo, you may not choose love at that point.

Who knows? So this is just an activity happening. So if you actually see, because this is about recognizing the redundancy of that I. Yeah. If you actually see that there is a content, you know, content in the sphere of seeing there are different objects. Seeing, hearing, thinking, there are different content happening and there is nobody who does or choose or do anything about it. Well, you know, before I learned words or, you know, when I arrived, probably. Yeah. And before the conditioning. Another thing is I, I do feel as though there is some sort of reincarnation. Yeah. And I think that's a good thing. I think that's a good thing.

Yeah. I think that's a good thing. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And that's the thing of being, so of Core Beings, that appeals. If it never ends, baby, tony, how can it begin again? Yeah. If it never ends. How can it begin again? Yeah, the Core Being is reincarnated right now in everyone of us, in every chair, carpet, wall, light, and everything else. Yeah. That's the Core Being. And the chair on which you sit is also incarnated into the chair. So you as the core being constitute everything. Yes, but in the noticing, because I think I have an astuteness to when it starts to become a piece of logic that's made up, which is why I don't hold too well with the awareness, things popping out of awareness, to me that becomes a logical thing.

So basically I notice when something's just going into head logic and when something's experience. I might not be too au fait with the experience, but I know when it's logic. So if I just notice there's a movement to one thing, it might be a parent twist to others, but there's a movement to one thing, and there might have been a movement notion about one thing and a notion then about another and then a notion. And one's logical and the other's illogical. Well, then there's the thought, oh, that must be a core doing that. That's pure logic. Yeah, whatever core. Yeah, that's just pure logic to me, and logic is just words and thoughts and absolutely nothing to do with the experience.

So for all intents and purposes, this, and every time I look, for all intents and purposes, this immediacy can only ever come up with a core being through logic. A little head story. See if there is any core being if you don't think about it. Yeah. Because that's actually, if you didn't see everything just yet. Well, I'm telling you that's part of the awareness. Yeah, you think, as you say, you think, you think is a part of the awareness. But what do you know? Yeah. You stop thinking. Just awareness. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, so this is really, I mean, as I said before, it's only enough to pause the thought once and then learn everything you can from that moment, you know, or contemplate on it and see the implications of that.

But if all of the implications didn't land yet, of course, use every gap between the thoughts to actually see it again and again and again and again. Yeah. And it's... Well, they just keep turning up now. Yeah, they might have some, that point with them, or they might not. They may have totally different ones. But it just turns up at the moment of rest, you know, it just turns up, you know. Sometimes it feels like, you say it feels like rest or peace or various other things, or there's some satisfaction or a bit of joy comes in after or, you know, or various things can go on.

But what you absolutely know is that no meaning making is happening. Yeah. Nothing is being made of anything through the head. That's the only thing I can really say about it. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Nothing is being made of anything through the head. That's the only thing I can really say about any of it, you know? Mmm. Those short moments. Mmm. And then there's cloudy moments, and I really just kind of have to assume that some meaning making is in there, because they're not that clear. And it's just flash, flash from, you know, it just can be the quickest flash.

Mmm. And then some feeling in my body assumes there was another flash of meaning making in there too, because now there's some reaction in the body that usually gets labelled or fear or labelled something. Mmm. You often say then you just ride it, you know, you just, you know, when you don't, that doesn't matter, you know. Yeah, it doesn't matter, you're just watching the sky. It's really about, about, you know, watching different clouds will come up. There will be clouds that are rainy clouds, or there will be nice beautiful clouds, or there will be a storm coming up on the sky, or there will be a beautiful sunny day with no clouds at all.

It's just basically watching the sky and whatever comes out. And if the judgement cloud comes up, yeah, that's just another cloud, you know. If the meaning-making cloud comes up, that's just another cloud. Everything that comes up is a content. And every piece of content is recognised from that, from its opposite, from that stillness, or the absence of content, from the emptiness. Every form, thought form, or the cloud form, or the sound form, or any… any form is recognised from the point of formless. This is where the form and emptiness come, come, you know, the duality of form and emptiness. In Hinduism they call it Shiva Shakti.

Shiva is the consciousness, the sky-like awareness, the formless, empty, cognising emptiness. And the Shakti is the expression of it. When that emptiness starts vibrating, different frequency will create the sound, different frequency will create the light. Yet different vibration will create the matter, the electrons, atoms. So that emptiness vibrates into all that different variety, diversity of beautiful forms. But this is still that one emptiness vibrating. So there's still that Shiva appearing as Shakti, as Maya. So that's why they call it one. Even though it seems like there is a space, and inside the space there are forms. So it seems like there are two. But they are not.

Because the forms are… The forms are just vibration of that space. They are just… That's why they call it Maya illusion. It's just like there is no rainbow. It's just a flickering of the light. There is no mirage. Again, they're all just appearance. They appear. A blue sea or blue sky. There is no sky isn't blue and the sea isn't blue either. They just seem to be like this. So the whole world is just a play of the appearance. And on the immediate level of this present moment. We have these five senses. Hearing, seeing, tasting, touching, smelling. And they constitute the space of the whole appearance.

The space of seeing, it has space actually for the forms. The space or the field of hearing, it accommodates all the sounds. The space of the body, the tastes, touches and smells and balance. So that whole… The whole… Suddenly the whole universe has been furnished with just the five senses. And that's why we have this five senses. And that's why we have this five senses. And that's enough. That's already pretty beautiful. But now the sixth sense come up, the thinking. And the thinking bring up the imagination. The story of the past. The story of the future. The story of having someone inside there who pulls the string, the ego or the me or someone there inside who does decision making or choosing love over fear or something.

So that's all… That all comes from the sixth sense, the reasoning capacity that people have. And that's it. So this is like an over layer. Like basic dream is seeing, hearing, tasting, touching, smelling. So all the forms that come from vibrating of the emptiness. But now the thinking is the tricky one. I mean it's fantastic because suddenly we don't have just one room. I can think of thousand rooms like this. So now instead of one dream, one universe, I can have thousands of them just in the imagination. So the creativity from the perspective of that cognising emptiness or that absolute, or that intelligence that is expressing itself, the thinking is absolutely magnificent capacity.

It increases the capacity for expression thousand-folds or infinitely. But it has the… It has the… It backfires. Because… Because yeah, I can imagine thousand other rooms and that's fantastic. Now the space is expressing in thousand different ways. But the backfire is that… I imagine that I am the doer. I am the thinker. I am the separate person. I can make mistakes. I can be… I should be ashamed of myself. And I am all that inferior. I have the sense of void. Look around. Look at other people. They're so much smarter, wiser and more beautiful. Gosh, I'm worthless. So that comes up with taking credit for embodying that body-mind mechanism and taking credit for taking the ownership of it.

And assuming the separation. That also comes from thinking. When I don't think, I can't even see my feet. I don't even know I have legs. I have to think that I have legs. I definitely don't know I have face. I can only experience the space, looking out at space. That's the experience. But when I'm thinking, I'm creating my face. I'm creating my legs. I'm creating my body by thinking, imagining. And now I think that I'm not good enough. That I'm unhappy. That I'm miserable. That I should grow and become better. Or I should achieve. Or I need someone else to tell me that I'm worthy.

I need your love and acceptance. And I will be begging for it. And I will be modifying my behavior for it. And I will be thinking that I'm doing it. And I will be making mistakes. And that's suffering. All the suffering comes up from the idea that I am this. And this one will get old, will die, will make mistakes, will be scarce of food and money, will be excluded from society and starved. I'm just picking on different fears just as an illustration. So it all comes up from the idea that I am this. I am the vehicle that I'm using. I'm the car that I'm driving.

And now I'm going to be out of oil. What am I going to do? Oh, I'm not a nice car. You know, I'm a 20-year-old car or 40-year-old car. So the identification with the vehicle, with the machine, is as if the computer has identified with the camera that is operating or the speaker system. Yeah, this is my... No, it's not. It's just the vehicle of the expression. The space, the life, has a multitude of that points in consciousness through which it has a glimpse of itself. It doesn't... The identification with the vehicle. The identification with the form is not required. When the identification with the form comes up, then all the desires that come, that are just natural movement, like the cats, when I give them beef in one bowl and the kibbles in the other, they go to the beef.

They have preferences. Absolutely. They love it. I mean, actually, the male one prefer beef. The female one... Anyway, they have preferences, but they have no idea that this is my... this is my opportunity. This is my opportunity. This is my opportunity. This is my opinion. This is my preference. I'm whatever, the political preference. And if someone has the opposite, I'm going to fight and I'm going to go for war because this is so important. My opinions and my preferences and my tastes for music or taste for food are so important because they're mine. So would you prefer to be a cat living like that? I am cat.

My name is cat. You're swimming like a cat. And I am living like a cat. Seriously. Yeah. But if you want to propose, you do. I'm trying. I'm into this craft. I think that people are always here. I have a cat, I'm not going to destroy it. Let's have this cat over me. Okay. People, check on me. Check out the cat over there. We all need a cat. Yes, that's the cat over here. Did you like the cat? Yes. Look at the picture. The cat, I thought it was ... Cool. How nice. that I picked up along the way. Do any of you have any opinion that nobody else share in the world?

They are all thoughts that we are, you know, we watch the TV or we watch the Internet or whatever. We just pick up different thoughts. The thoughts are almost like a being on their own. They're almost like a little viruses that they just take the brain, they host it and they, you know. So there are no my thoughts or my opinions. They're just thoughts or opinions. None of them are mine anymore. I wouldn't stand up or fight for any of it because they're not mine anymore. But I used to be. That was painful. Not only it was laughable but it was painful because it was very serious.

You know, I used to believe in stuff like whatever, choice making, reincarnation, stuff like this or eating or not eating meat or stuff like this. I used to believe in it and I had an urge to convince other people about it because, you know, when I will make you believe it then maybe I'll believe it more. Like come on they're just thoughts that everything is just a thought. None of it are worthy of dying for it. They're just another form like none of the sounds, like sound of the drum or sound of the kookaburra, none of them are worthy of fighting for! They're not serious.

They're just passing phenomena, like clouds. None of the clouds, cumulus or stratus clouds they're not worthy of fighting or defending that's true thank you that's true you know thoughts no clouds no sound is worthy forget about the permanence and think about this moment because permanence comes from the idea of time that there is some sort of yeah I know I know but this is very often and it used to be a trap for me you know when I was a spiritual seeker for many many years I had moments and a prolonged lasting for two three weeks moments of living without any self and then I was thinking oh yeah well it is stabilizing you know this is about stabilizing in that in that freedom from the from relating to oneself and then I was thinking oh yeah well it is stabilizing you know this is about and even the idea of stabilizing is still the idea that is anchored in time because if really it's just this moment if that moment if it seriously see that this moment is all there ever is you don't worry about stabilizing you don't worry about permanence you don't worry about anchoring it or keeping it or staying there or abiding there or any of it it's just about this moment this moment you are aware of your being and if there is content if there are clouds on the sky if there are thoughts in it you are aware of those two and and that's it that's it there is never ever any other moment than this one so you don't have to worry about it at their moment I suppose you could say like even though there is no value difference but the blackest clouds are the ones that judge the judgment thoughts so the grey ones judge the white clouds and then the black ones judge the fact that judgment happened but I probably found the first ones to go pretty much mostly gone yeah the blackest ones are that mostly dropped off first and then the gray ones sort of mostly dropped off after that yeah like I mean you remember I don't know but I told you months a few months ago year ago when most of those ones are gone and then these ones like I guess jog a first judgment cloud is in the assessment any kind of meaning making that happens and then morticles come in and kids come up with different decisions and I think 1800 that's like discount over time because that's rough judgment cloud is any assessment any kind of meaning making that happens I know any cloud is a meaning making and then there's a judgment on meaning making and then a judgment on the judgment yeah whatever but you know they just start to back off and drop I mean maybe there is some peace in seeing more of the gaps and then just seeing that they keep coming anyway so less complaint thoughts come up about the fact that the clouds are still coming but also as like the habitual patterns that are contractive and don't feel good you know those assessments that have kind of got those feelings that also judged to be not nice they start to disappear too they're spotted and caught dead in their tracks and that's so important and then they lose their power in so many different ways they might just all disappear and that's so important then they they lose their power in so many different ways they might just all and that's so important then they they lose their power in so many different suddenly fade off mid-sentence or they might just like mean less and less and less or they don't grab you anymore or suddenly like well that's just nothing to do with the me you know yeah or even like a little me sentence is caught mid-sentence you know because here there's a lot of observation right down to the you know nitty-gritty except when I'm daydreaming for 20 minutes or hours at a time but you know there's a lot of that and so it's really just things being caught out it's cloud spotting just a lot of cloud spotting and then you know certain ones just start to go away en masse you know they just do so life feels better?

oh yeah ever since I've been doing this for about two and a half years it's been like that it's like a snail on speed and then with a bit of transmission for weighting sort of popped up a bit but it's just there's nothing there's no sense of, never been a sense of decision to come here at all it's just been a movement do you have any questions? so when let's so so you said that there's like no act for awakening it's just being present in the moment and like not having like other thoughts so that's that's the that's what you're supposed to experience in all of this yeah I think there shouldn't be any other thought as well well there can be thoughts but just not be attached to the thought because they are illusory yeah yeah yeah the awakening is really awakening from the illusion of being separate self so when you know that you are not separate self there's nobody to wake up to anything else anymore because when if you think you are separate self then you are not separate self because when if you think you are separate self then you are not separate self if you think you are separate self then you can't wake up from it because the separate self cannot wake up from itself something else wakes up the consciousness or the awareness actually wakes up from that identification with the separate self so now it wakes up as the eternal screen or the or the basic screen or the pure awareness so now there is nobody there nobody else there there's nobody home it's an empty shell the body is empty the awareness is inside and out so there's nobody to wake up from anything else and what's your next thought going to be?

what's your next thought going to be? yeah one question should I ask? see what I mean you can't choose your thoughts yeah you don't know what your next thought is going to be you have to wait till the thought come up to say what it is before it comes up you don't know and that response you gave came up and you weren't thinking that before I came up you weren't thinking that before I have to wait for the next thought to come up because you didn't even know you were going to be answered then yeah that's the question yeah so thoughts arise and when you say I think you've taken it to be a person a thinker yeah but can you think a thought can it?

when you say I think you form the thinker subject and the thoughts become the object but can there be thinker without thinking? can there be the thought without thinking? can it? they say yes thoughts come up and when I say there's no thinker of the thought we're pointing at without the thinking there can't be a thinker without the thinking there can't be a thought so though we divided them into me and the other the thinker and the thought they're not divided really it's the same as seeing you're seeing right now and you're thinking right now and you're thinking right now and you say I see and you say I see you formed a subject me Valerie seeing I see the chair I see the carpet that become the object seeing has been divided dualistically into subject object but can there be a seer without seeing?

can there be the seen without seeing? so seeing without seer yeah you have the process of seeing the pure functioning is the capacity of seeing and now this capacity has been divided let's say there is a mirror let's say there is a mirror me seer looking at you as seen so if there is no seeing if the eyes are closed I can't say that there is you because in the seeing there is seen the one that I'm looking at is the seen and the seer is the one who is looking so without the seeing none of it is valid without the capacity of seeing there is no one who is seeing and there is nothing that is seen same with the thinking seeing hearing tasting touching smelling all the functioning there is a pure seeing hearing when we divide it to I see I hear I taste I touch I smell I think we know we formed a subject and lose sight of the truth of it you only need to see it to happen so the easy example is to actually see like we are saying I am digesting my dinner but is it really I am doing it?

digestion is the natural happening natural happening digesting is going on and now because of the language I say I digest it and I digest it but if there was no digestion the it wouldn't be digested and the I wouldn't be doing it so the functioning that when Bob is saying ing the digesting the seeing the hearing the growing the thinking the ing on it means there is a process there is a movement there is a movement and now within that movement we assume that there is I and the air that I am breathing so the breathing is going on but I say I am breathing air but that's not it's just one breathing yeah and same with seeing there is no one behind my eyes who is actually looking there is just seeing there is no one who is looking and there is no one who is thinking and there is no one who is breathing there is just life we are being lived by life just like Bob was saying when you were growing from the little embryo nobody was doing it nobody was growing your heart and your lungs nobody is growing your hair right now but they are growing nobody is growing the grass nobody is blowing the wind nobody is moving the planets around the sun and it is all just pure functioning and now on top of this pure functioning we are bringing up the idea of the entity now I am doing the walking I am doing the seeing and I have the capacity of seeing I can't start seeing or stop seeing but because of the language I assume that there is some sort of ego or the me that actually does it but there is nobody really doing it I am going back to something you just said before it's like you know you might think you are directing a choice of one birthday present over another but you said the body was directing the digestion but then the body has to have an entity to direct the digestion so it's not you doing it it's the body doing it then does the body have a little man in there directing how to digest so is it from the one source right?

yeah so I have a question so does the source have a plan for like all the entities that are being manifested? you mean is it thinking? is there a purpose? a plan so does the one source like so the one source makes the decision for all that is being manifested so one life that is functioning through everything the thoughts come and go so not the one thought but the thinking no no no she is talking about the plan whether the life or the source has the plan for every blade of grass or every tiger or every ant or every fly it doesn't have a plan it's all spontaneous yeah timeless you see to have a plan you have to be in time when you see time is a fiction also it's spontaneous when does now begin?

have a look at it when does now begin you say it's beginning right now when's it ending? right now so it hasn't got any duration so that's what's the same with all the functioning in this manifestation it's all spontaneous it's got no duration about any of it it's not a billion light years or a big bang or anything like that that's it applies time again is it? is it like just a never ending show? yes it's never beginning either it's spontaneous there's no beginning no ending to it that's out of duration all time is a duration they call it lila divine play the yeah divine game it's just the source or the life it's just playing out expressing itself in many different ways moment to moment spontaneously joyously God says you've only got now you're not out of now and now just isn't got a set beginning or an end it's just whatever there's just an experience and right now you know there's just no next experience either and it's dying now and Tony you mentioned the idea of evolution I heard yes so Bob you want to say anything about evolution?

I can tell you you know your lungs are evolving right now taking a breath and then they're involving now breathing out so evolution is only in conceptual thinking you can say that there is an evolution in some parts of the life and involution in some other but if you don't think about it is this moment is timeless so evolution is a mental process that compares compares the past with the future and say there is improvement so there is judgment involved to say that this is of course yeah like you can say that you know someone who gets into drug addiction and is losing their capacities or someone who even gets the Parkinson's disease and is losing the capacity is the is the opposite of evolution or you can say child that is growing see how much of the ideas it involves how much of the comparison mental ideas comparison judgments and ideas for someone else evolution might just mean change but then that's still is some kind of story out of what's just here right now for this immediacy so evolution is a change you mean because evolution also means change?

because evolution obviously means that it's a change in into bigger complexity some might say just change but then they wouldn't call it evolution because maybe I've always misunderstood evolution that some people might be just more less loaded and some people more loaded and some people might load other stuff in on top of that you know some people might just be yeah movement through time yeah so why don't they don't just call it movement through time I always thought that that's why evolution was yes she was yeah but in which way you know it's still it's still an additional description beyond what is just here is the time you know the roller coaster experience you know it's a description of the whole park instead of just sitting on the roller coaster and you only notice what's on the roller coaster when you're on the ride you don't sit there and like you know make a mental map of the park or lunar park or whatever that other stuff yeah so I think that's the thing yeah so every time when the mental component is involved like every time when the time comes up like evolution it includes the time see how the space has been constructed through the you know the space is the reality now that reality of space filtered through the body mind mechanism became a space of seeing space of hearing space of tasting touching smelling it is kind of divided into different channels now the time comes up and it comes only from the sixth sense which is mind there is no time in seeing hearing tasting touching smelling they only constitute the space the illusion the immediacy of this moment there is no past and future in this immediacy the time only comes from conceptualizing from thinking from imagination oh that's the other cat so time space is appearance is an illusion only and evolution and everything that involves the conceptualizing the imagination is creating time is mind time is mind so if you ever want to ask question how real is that see how it is in the immediacy without time if you actually take the mind out of it take the time out of it I seem to follow the time is just absolutely it's mental construct yeah it's you know an illusion it is yeah and it's quite amazing let's let's not underestimate the brilliance of it like as I said for the space for life me as life giving myself the capacity of thinking and capacity of packing the whole space multi-dimensionally with time infinite amount of possibilities because not only this immediacy that the senses are giving me but also every image I can create regarding the any other time that now the now which is non-existent but potentially when believed it comes forth and it expresses itself in its full beauty so you can have great fun in this illusion absolutely what a fun isn't especially when you see through it especially when you don't take it seriously especially if you don't take the past in which someone hurt you as something real you know all this stuff yeah makes much easier you know that you know I really you are actually faking the opposite you can't fake not being one with life because you are you're just faking to be a separate entity so it's not fake it till you make it stop faking it be who you are Nisargadatta says have the courage to be who you are and leave us who you are and stop pretending to be anything else does it not look like the cat is having a rich experience or having that satisfaction well I can just see a bit of a tail thing but it also looks like it's having the experience of following curiosity you remember when you were a cat and you ran off to check something out just follow the curiosity and not watching these cats and they get into stuff and Bob throws a cushion at them I think it's curious about me because it probably hasn't seen me before oh yeah but I find when I live with cats it never pays any attention to me you're sitting too far away for it to no but I've sort of tried to entice it it's a cat but it likes you but I've also found the urge to look at the cat as an empty everything pointer every now and then there's a movement to look at the cat and there's a remembering of what it's like to not be thinking about stuff like the cat is it's not meaning making and so then that clears my meaning making and it goes away you know just from looking at the cat brilliant why not use everything use everything as a reminder it just turns up and there's just no sense of me using it whatsoever for me it's just always turning up but actually recognising the whole appearance as one the cat is a fantastic thing it's a fantastic demonstration of that one life it doesn't take credit for the life that is living it it doesn't think that it has anything to do with whatever is happening it doesn't think at all so everything else I mean you can use the cat but you can even use the chair you are sitting on as a reminder we might know that you've mentioned it every single form and every single shape is a reminder of the formless the chair is empty of thought that's true everything appears in the space everything that is seen is seen because of that being or that space so ultimately when you actually recognise the appearance for what it is every single form in the appearance is actually being the vibration of the emptiness it can bring you back to the reality the chair just did that for me four times in that last minute wonderful and I was able to go there I was able to do an emptying and see how the chair is enjoying its being it also has a being it's quite solid I don't know if that's something to be able to imagine that one you don't need to imagine it you can just see it there get mimicked here mirrored but see it there say hi chair what do you say I forgot what you said about it no no no it doesn't have any sentience so it's not going to engage in conversation with you that's because I work with these kids and it's just part of the track with the autistic kids and so it's just it's just I guess to encourage shared attention by bridge by buildings or various other things so we do it why not I mean it may not have sentience but it is all made of the same life all the same life essence that constitutes everything so we can't say that it is dead I mean I always used to track my chair I used to write short stories about rocks and they were the main characters and I was always wondering why these tall skinny things were running about so fast and I was always wondering why these tall skinny things were running about so fast and I just always loved that you know putting personalities in objects because it just made humans you know just de-storied in a way deconstructed humans and I really liked that yeah even 20, 30 years 40 years before 46 years before I even came across non-duality yeah I had the non-duality school in India that I was learning from I was learning from the guru had the analogy about the rocks actually the walls that had human sort of consciousness and it was a wonderful illustration on all the labels like imagine you are the wall, you know and people stick labels on it the big, big advertisements or placards or whatever you don't take credit for it you don't worry about that what anybody else is thinking about you who cares yeah he was I think it has become a story I've read stories about people people astro-traveling into a war and they didn't know where it was and it seemed really sad and didn't want them to leave.

And later on they found it was an Auschwitz war but then they could make all these stories about it being a human war, you know, they could make up anything really about what was simply an experience in that moment, you know, with no boundaries. Yeah, creative imagination, what a fun, what a fun, only when it starts, when you start believing it and taking it seriously, like my little stories from 20 years ago about the seriousness of drinking juices with sugar and make you look ridiculous. I mean believing in anything. And you drink juices with sugar in or? With added sugar. Yeah, yeah, added sugar, added sugar.

There are sugars. Oh, there is sugar in everything today. But anyway, everything that you take seriously. I mean politics. Yeah. Yeah. I mean any cause that you take deadly seriously make you a fanatic and as a fanatic you're dangerous. You start converting other people, you're ready to fight and die for your beliefs. I mean come on, they're not even your beliefs. They're just viruses that have stolen this scenery that, you know, that basic screen, the virus of the mind brought and kidnapped the scene. It's almost as if like imposter. That, you know, like. Now do you recycle and do those things? Sometimes. I mean, yeah, yeah.

It's just a bunch of thoughts and a bunch of actions now, isn't it? That's right. But, but you know what? Do you tend to do all those things? Of course, you know, we have the, we have the containers for recycle and we have, you know, it doesn't, it's just an action. And also it doesn't mean that, you know, if we have certain habits of keeping a household or certain habits of, of doing things less harmful. Yeah. You know, or more healthy. You're not actually driving people to do things and all that. It doesn't mean they are our, yeah. It's not. But without really making it very, very serious.

When it's natural and it's easy and because Bob was very health conscious all his life and I was kind of environmentally conscious also. Then when the thought arrived to actually, you know, prevent animal suffering or whatever it is or, or avoid dairy because of the joint inflammation. And stuff like this, that type of thoughts, they resonate with the natural pattern that is in the body. And because of that natural resonance, then the action comes up. We stop eating butter or cheese or whatever, but it's not something that I will go and convert other people or I will go with this word and fire and die for it.

It's just something that with this particular mechanism and, and he is health conscious also, he used to have health food stores. So that type of thoughts, they kind of naturally find home and they exercise action. And there is not a me that is accepting this thought and rejecting the other thought or is resonating with this thought or no, it's nobody home. It's just body mind mechanism that is responding to certain triggers and not responding to the other that is receptive to certain music or certain foods and not receptive to the other. It's just the bio computer that naturally spontaneously works. Yeah. It works with whatever the environment, you know, is, is it's one is really one with the environment.

So it, whatever the pattern is there of responses will be engaging in the pre-programmed way. So it's in most moments, a bunch of like chemicals or energy and Bob that if someone put a plate of chips in front of them, there's a smile like, and yes please, you know, or I won't know whatever I don't know that's exactly it the same way and absolutely the same way the cat will get you know the ginger cat will get the bowl of beef and it will get a smile on the face apart from the fact that they don't have muscles to smile but you will know and and the other cat reacts to different food yes is and it's nobody home it's no ego in the cat it's it's just spontaneous happening yeah yeah lights on that's what I used to think was the phrase for an idiot if you if you define ego as the personality yes they do have personality absolutely but ego the way spirituality after in and identifies it it's not the personality pattern but the identification with personality it's like I have the personality, Bob has the personality, everything, even animals have personality.

But now saying that I am my personality, that's the ego. Okay, because there's a friend who's got a dog that becomes very jealous. Another dog gets patted. Yeah. And to all intents and purposes, it's a very jealous dog. So does it have an ego in that case? Yes, like if the dog is jealous of other dogs. It's rather like a cutscene, it's really a biomechanical... You know, it's really just energy doing stuff. So they're not identifying with themselves. It's just a bunch of habits, a bunch of training. Survival instinct. But we don't have egos either. It's only when we learn words and put labels on that I, instead of us just saying I is a basic.

Everything is I, you know, that's the basic. When we say I'm Bob, I'm an Australian, I'm this, that, that. The ego is a personal conceptual one, made up of thoughts, ideas. And it's a fiction. That's what we relate to. Because our school society and friends and peers all reinforcing that ego. We reinforce it ourselves every day. So animals, like it's just automatically, like it's like their behavior, it's inherent, but they don't have an ego. Even if they get jealous about it. Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. And so do us. I mean, this, what Bob just said, that we don't have ego either. I remember the situation. It was actually a life situation that there was some sort of a jealousy playing out in certain moment.

And it was Bob that was playing out through. And I say, hey, are you jealous? This is ridiculous. This is crazy. There is no reason. And it's such a human pattern. It's an ego. And he says, yeah, look at the look at the wild animals. Look at the Lions. You know, what? What are they doing? They have all their harem of lioness. And when there is a Delta lion flying around the park, they will chase it away. Does it mean that they have an ego? No, it's a natural instinct of protecting the tribe. And doesn't mean that there is a human ego playing out of human jealousy playing out because as he says, and he totally means.

It ego is a fiction. It doesn't exist. Ego is only believed in it only exists because we say it exists just the way children believe in Santa Claus. They say, oh, of course, Santa Claus is real because they believe it. But when they investigate and when they grow up a little bit and they find out that Santa Claus is not real is just a belief and the same thing with the ego. Now as we know that the ego is not. An entity. There is nothing there. It doesn't mean that the jealousy the anger the sadness doesn't mean that this. Yeah, they don't come from ego.

They just they just you know, like the weather really sadness is like the gray clouds in the sky or the anger is like the volcano erupting or the storm the stormy clouds on the sky. So the clouds don't belong to nature doesn't have the ego. It doesn't say this is a nice weather because there is no ego. This is bad weather because there is an ego same inside. You know, this body is responding to some triggers with anger or irritability. Bob is responding to other things with anger or irritability, but that's not his anger. That's just the weather passing weather. So when the anger comes up, it's really usually lasts maybe couple of minutes and it goes away and it disappears the sky clears up or when the sadness comes up or anything else.

Actually, I had for last. Three years because for me is still very young that that realization when I came across sadness because the cat die or whatever I actually found it pretty amazing. I said, oh my God is just such a tenderness in it is such a sweetness in it. It's sadness. That was was absolutely beautiful. I didn't want it to go. I mean, I was happy to cry. I was happy to experience sadness because it wasn't mine. If this years back, I believe that this is my and I. This I hate this feeling. I need to do something about it. I need to get some chocolate or get drunk or whatever.

Do something not to feel what is there. But right now whatever shows up whether it's a sunny day or it's a cloudy day or it's a rainy day or it's a sadness or it's a joy or is they're all not mine. They're all just beautiful weather to watch. And also the concept of ego is a 20th century one with a bunch of aspects to it medieval times. I have a spirit. And that has a different bunch of aspects probably a whole lot less actually, you know, a different bunch or you know, yeah, there'll be other eras of cavemen, you know, what they thought, you know, have anything that's just so conceptual.

And also the ego and they came up with the development of the of the psychology before that before psychology even had the language for it. There was no ego because there was no language when they described it. It's all the main things because you instantaneously believed it. I mean till till today. But till today there is a lot of arguing around ego and a lot of misunderstanding because for many people it does not make sense. They just believe it blindly like like, you know, what Valerie just said is the ego personality. Well, not exactly it is identification with personality. But it see what the what a huge difference is that like is it?

Sort of adds a richness or something. No, if if you think that ego is imagination, if you think ego is personality, then ego is real. That's it. That's a difference of day and night. Yeah, but is it real? No, there you go. And then people have definition of the ego that makes it absolutely real. And I think what kind of that's started to say that when you're just in a moment. And it's experiencing a wow that anything even exists and I'm just taking from the head now because it's a long time. You're becoming a wowzer, watch out. Yeah, I mean that's just a head statement.

It's a wee wow since I felt that particular one. But yeah, she's just saying like the wow wow. This is my God. This is here. This exists. Oh my God. Just what's just here. She's saying that's way more than the flatness of an imagination. Yeah, but you can tell that much better. Her and Bob would say that much better than me. Because it's a bit empty for me to say that right now. Yeah. And he's ostentatiously again pulling out his equipment. So it means that we are over time. So thank you very much. Well, I've been working half of it. So I'll just take it up and get it checked out again.