Sailor Bob - Non Duality - on the Word 14 Oct 18

I remember that, yeah. Okay, you ready? Can you say your names, just in case? Tony. Jane. Tony. David. Tassie. Tony. Tassie. Justin. Mary. Terry. There we have it, Silobot. Hiya. Good morning. How are you? Good. How are you? I'm good. Yes, so everybody knows what it is about. Nobody who's new. I assume, Tassie, you've heard, you know each other for years, so you know what... Oh, yeah, it's quite a few years now. Yeah, so you know that... 17 years, I think. Wow. Kind of 12 years. Yeah, so he's now, because of many different reasons, he is just willing to have a backup. And that's, yeah, that's what I'm doing.

I'm a backup till he's moved to speak. I kind of start him off. So I kind of repeat certain pointers. And if it's... Starts him off, he will jump on board and he will pick from there. So let's hope this will happen soon. It's not about me. Get on with the message. Yeah, funny enough. We were just, just a couple of minutes ago, we were talking about people who can't stand that Bob is speaking less because they don't really listen to the message. They worship the messenger. So this is really what it is not about. It doesn't matter who speaks it and how they speak it, whether it is Bob or it's Santa Claus or whoever.

It is really about what is pointed at. It is really about the pointers. And if someone really wants to see the moon, they won't be looking at the finger. So it really doesn't matter how it is said. It is some sort of a difference between a vocabulary of one teacher to another. And it's good to stick to one type of vocabulary because otherwise they seem like they contradict each other. But only if we stop with the words. Only if we stop at the finger and not look over past to see the moon. Because if we do, we know that it's just one thing they all are pointing about in a different way.

It's just one. The non-conceptual awareness. Pointing beyond pointers. Pointing beyond concepts. Beyond mind. Beyond names, labels. We call it awareness or presence awareness or being or satchitananda or space or silence or God. Or something. Or stillness. Or Shiva. Or whatever the names we put on it. We are talking about just that one. And Advaita calls it one without the second or one without the other. Because second people confuse us at time. One in the moment of time. But this is just all about this one. So every pointer that is ever used, the intention of the pointer is to actually bring back the non-conceptual awareness or the knowing that we exist without.

The story. Who am I without the story? Who am I if I don't think about it? What is the world if I don't label it? What is everything? How is it known without interpreting it through the computer there? So Bob is often showing how this came about because this pointer is actually quite helpful to understand that the way we conceptualize the experience is conditioned. We were brought up to label. We learned language. So we started differentiating things. We conditioned our eyes and our ears. The mind operates senses to actually distinguish between objects and overlook the space. Distinguish between sounds and overlook the silence. This is how the game is constructed.

This is how the Maya, the play is constructed. If not for that, there would be nothing. But. It comes with the byproduct of it. Labeling comes with the labeling self as the other, as separate from the world. And if I am the self that is separate from the world, I'm vulnerable, I'm fragile, I'm threatened. And now I'm suffering. I'm inferior. I'm unworthy. I'm not good enough. And I'm trying to find my way out. And my my way out is also sought in the mind. I'm thinking, oh, I heard. Oh, I heard. Oh, I heard. I heard. I heard. Buddha says there is a way out of suffering.

Oh, somebody says there is an enlightenment. Somebody says there is this eternal bliss and that bliss. This is what I want. Now, whatever is happening right now is not it. How do I know? Because I have the mental image of what it should be, how it should be like. It should be peace. It should be expansion. It should be bliss. How do I know? Well, because they told me so. And I'm imagining it another way. I could have had an experiences, various experiences throughout life where there was an expansion. I even heard the stories from people who were actually starting drinking alcohol at the age of like 14.

And for the first very, very first time in their life, the anxiety went down. So obviously they said, oh, my gosh, this is the answer to all my problems. And they medicated with alcohol for another 20, 30 years. So if they made it, they got sober. But if they didn't, they. And then getting sober didn't really it just kicks the anxiety back. So the ultimate ultimate freedom is actually investigating the self that gets anxious. If there is no self, anxiety is just a floating cloud, floating cloud of experience. But it's not mine. So it's not a problem if I don't even label it that that's just a bundle of vibrations or energy passing through the screen of awareness.

It's not a problem. But because of the way we were constructed and because of the way that we were constructed, we were able to do it. And that's why I'm so happy. And I'm so happy. The game is designed. We get trapped in the self identity, in the conceptual image of being separate or other. And we try to find a way out. But as the I didn't identify self image or entity. I can't find the way out because I'm fiction. I'm identified with the mental image, with the phantom. So how can the phantom, how can the fictitious Santa Claus can bring real gifts? it can't.

It has to be this, it has to be like de-masked, you know, the mask has to be taken of it. And now what is left is the non-conceptual awareness. There's something that has never been lost. What we are looking for has never been lost. Everyone is aware of the being, everyone is knowing their existence and there's nothing more to it. It's just the idea that there is something more or bigger or better or... Can I add something? Think of something in a minute. You think? Okay, not yet. Okay, fine. I said we haven't got all day, Bob. We've got right now though. That's it, yeah.

And it's only now. Pardon? Only now. Yeah. You don't touch it, I'll have it. That's what we've lost sight of throughout the ages is that there is only one essence, one intelligent entity, whatever language I can put in, that's fashioning, shaping and forming it, that's everything. Including the pattern you call you and the pattern they call me. Every other pattern, shape and form is what they tell you in the scriptures is Maya. It's illusion. It's appearance only. And they'll tell you, you know, you're not going to be able to see it. You're not going to be able to see it. And they'll tell you it's transient.

It's constantly changing. There's nothing static about any of it. And it's a phenomenal manifestation, they say. Look up your dictionary, look up the word phenomena. It's that which appears to be. Now all the things in this room, including you, me, the carpet, the chair, the curtains and everything else, are things. They're appearing in the cognising emptiness, the no-thing. Now can some thing come from no-thing? It can't really. So the things, the pattern, shapes and forms that we take to be real are not. They have no substance or any self-nature. You're told this in the scriptures too when you look into them. You hear all these great religions are formed around these truths.

But they've lost sight of them, Ethan. They put this on it and that on it and give it some thing we've got to get or something separate. And my daddy's better than your daddy. My religion's better than, well, my football club's better than your old football club. So this religion's better than the next one. They're missing the point of it. It's all the one essence. I'm not a Christian, I'm not a Hindu, I'm not a Muslim, I'm not a Muslim or a Jew. But I see the truth in all those things. And I take what's been picked up from all of them and utilise them.

And that's the old scripture saying, know the truth, the truth will set you free. Not the belief. Look up your dictionary definition of belief. Accepted question in the absence of reason. Acceptance of an alleged fact without positive knowledge or proof. So that's the definition of belief. Now if you don't recognize it all as it is, realize that that body you walked into the room with, it's transient like the risk of the manifestation. You haven't got the same body you walked into the room with. There are thousands of cells dying right now and being replaced. It's not the same body you had last week, last year, or when you were a little child.

You can get the intelligence suffusing it, bringing out the words and the senses and everything else. It's the same. It's the one essence appearing and expressing as everything. What it's appearing through and expressing through is constantly changing, and even the words. When you understand the Word's not the real, it tells you in the Bible, in the beginning was the Word, the Word was with God, the Word was God. Nothing was made without Him, without the Word. All things were made with the Word. That's all God is, is Word. We put that conceptual image of God on it, and take it to be something separate and a part of it.

Give it some personal power. But there's only one power. It's omnipotence, omniscience, omnipresence. Three aspects into one. Only the one. Never been anything other than that. So in the beginning was the Word, the Word was God, the label was God. Nothing was made without the Word, all things. So have a look at that. I ask you, when did you begin? You'll say, I was born. But can you remember your birth? You can't remember your birth. How many words did you have then? How many words did you have while you were in the womb being formed? Didn't have a brain at one stage. Yet that intelligence energy was forming the pattern, shape and form, through the food you've eaten and the prana, the energy, and the genes of the father, your father and your mother, all formed that particular pattern.

That pattern, a unique expression. And so you didn't have any words when you were in the womb. For the first two years of your life, you didn't have any words. And you realize from that when you reach the capacity of about two, two and a half, the capacity of reasoning developed in this human pattern. And that's a capacity that other animals, birds, insects, don't have, that particular capacity. But they have other capacities that are more developed than our capacity of reasoning is. A bird, for instance, has got eyesight that's much sharper than yours and mine will ever be. It has the capacity of flying. We can't do that.

But through the capacity of reasoning, we've learned to build ourselves eyeglasses, binoculars, telescopes and things that enable us to see better. Through the capacity of reasoning, we've built helicopters, planes, and all the balloons and things like that that enable us to fly. A dog has a sense of smell that's much better than yours. See that? A chameleon can change color. Insects can form chrysalis and grubs and build cocoons and things like that. So they all have different capacities. We have this capacity of reasoning. And through that reasoning, we've learned words. And look at that. Every word you've ever spoken or ever liked to speak has been learned.

And it's probably even learning new words today. I'm still picking up new words today, forgetting a lot of the old ones, unfortunately. A lot of the new ones. And understand that the word's not the real. You might have used all these words all your life, but the word is not the real. Take the word water. Can you drink it? Can you swim in it? Can you wash it? Can you drown it? You can't. Not in the word. Does the word fire burn your mouth if you speak it? You can't cook with it, eat yourself with it, or do anything at all with the word. What's this word, I or me?

Look at it in the same way. Me or I is a conceptual image of yourself. Instead of seeing it as a pure, functioning, intelligent energy, you relate it to this conceptual image. I'm Bob the Australian, the good fellow, or not so good, or had a bad childhood, or unfortunate. All these concepts are added onto it, all these words, which are not the actual, not the real. But the energy of belief has gone into them. So now I've got a conceptual image, an egoic image, a personal self. There is no personal self. There is the one self that's appearing, patterning, expressing as everything. And you are that self.

But we've got the idea of a person, an ego, as something that is separate from the rest of it. And that's what we're battling with. We try to fix this ego. Try and make it whole and complete. It doesn't happen. And it can't happen. Because the ego is the ego. The ego is a fiction. People try and get out of this ego and all this, but they don't realise it's a fiction. It doesn't exist. It has never existed. The belief was taken on with the words, and the belief is seemingly real. We go back into that belief, believing it's real, constantly move into it, and we constantly get locked back in it again.

So we've got this concept about ourselves, and we're reinforcing it every day. Our parents reinforced it for us. Our people, society and nations are constantly reinforcing it, and we are reinforcing it ourselves. When people come here trying to become something, if I do this practice or do that or listen to this word, I will become enlightened or realised. Becoming is not being. Understand that. And is there anyone in this room who is not being right now? You're not becoming. You are pure being, right here and right now. And aren't you aware of that beingness? And aren't you loving to be? You're happy to be. You want to be.

You want to be this loving. That's what they call the Satyatinanda in the scriptures. Existence, consciousness, bliss, bliss, nama rupa. And the other two factors, the nama rupa, are the name and form. And the name and form are a fiction. They're mire or illusion. And to see that and realise it, to be free from it, that's all. It's not going to become complete or whole. And realise when you're looking at it from that point of view, you're starting from behind the eight ball. Because you've got to try and get rid of something that's not there and then try and find out what you are. Instead of trying to get rid of something, recognise that you are already that.

And that's the Mahavikya. I am that. Thou art that. This is that. Everything is that. Without putting the concepts or the shape and form in it. And you know everything is that because you don't just say, that's a chair, that's a carpet, that's a tree, that's a flower. We put labels on the that-ness. The that-ness is the pure existence, consciousness, bliss. We put labels on it. And taking the label or the word to be real. People have been seeking 10, 20, 30 years, earnestly and sincerely, and never found it. You're not idiots. Why haven't you found it? Because you've been looking in the mind. Maybe you realise then that the answer is not in the mind.

All the mind is, and you look at the mind, and you see there's no such thing as mind. Apart from thought. That's all that mind is, is thought. Pause the thought for a moment and ask yourself, what's wrong with right now if I don't think about it? You're not latching on to that thought, what can you say about it? You'll have to put a concept on it to say it's good, bad, pleasant, painful, all that. But realise, in that thought-free moment, you haven't stopped breathing. Your heart hasn't stopped beating. Hair and fingernails haven't stopped growing. Food hasn't stopped being digested. The livingness is still going on.

Thought-free. And the next moment of thought will start up. Now thought is not the enemy, you've got to understand that. You've got to recognise and see what it is. And it can be utilised. And it is utilised in everyday life. But when we take it to be real, it's using us. It's causing this me to be fearful, anxious, full of self-pity, resentful, unhappy, and all these other conceptual images. Me is the cause of all my psychological suffering. The belief in that conceptual me. That's the cause. And the effects are fear, anger, stress, guilt, shame, remorse, self-pity, depression. All these things are the effect of that cause.

And isn't that all that karma is? So-called karma. Cause and effect. But what if I'm recognising the cause as a fiction? And asking the simple question, can there be effect if it's not related to the cause? Well you don't have to be a road scull to work it out. You realise that if I'm not related to the cause, I can't say it's good, bad, good and painful without the cause, or there's something separate apart from it at all. So, see, so-called karma. Though there's appearing to be seeming karma in the manifestation. It's an animation. A real, hey. So that's what we're pointing to all the time.

That you are already that. So instead of trying to get something, whether you understand it or not at this moment, start from the fact that you are I am that. And take it from there. Can you negate that beingness? Can you say I am not? You can't. I am. Is the basic knowingness. So you can't negate the beingness. Anybody who is unaware right now or not knowing? No, you realise I am the conscious at the moment. I am not unaware. I must be aware. Anyone who is not loving to be right in this moment? Not sure. Yeah. Well, even the not sure. Drop it and see.

Well, yeah, as I say, see if you can negate that beingness, the knowingness of loving to be. How were you able to say I'm not sure? Wasn't there a knowingness there that was enabling you to say it? I'm here. I mean, you didn't commit suicide. I know I'm happy to be here. Yeah, you didn't commit suicide. So if you didn't really want it to be, that's the easy way out. Anyway, that's how I, that's my view. You're saying you're here. You put that concept on this particular side. Is there anywhere you can go which is not here? Anywhere you can go or be which is not here?

No. Well, why are you making a big deal out of this man? It's not the usual you. You don't just get posthumous. Yeah, why not? Yeah, cool. Contribution. Yeah, I'm sure you can have a significantly amazing, you know, experience. Have a look at the me. See that it's not real. How does this work? Well, everybody is seeing right now and the thought comes up, I see. As soon as you say, I see, you've brought an eye into it. You brought a subject into it, a seer. I see the chair. That's become the object. So can there be a seer without seeing? You can't. Can there be the seen without seeing?

You can't. So seeing is the actuality. And the subject object are the concepts. The same with the thinking, the tasting, touching, smelling, sensing it. All we put labels or concepts on. And they tell you in Buddhism the great perfection is non-conceptual awareness. It's that awareness without any concepts on. The great perfection, what can you add to the perfect? Nothing at all. The smallest thing you put to it wouldn't have been perfect. What can you take away from it? Nothing at all. So you are already that great perfection without conceptualizing it. The great perfection is non-conceptual awareness. Something comes up and I like it. How do you know?

Well, I've had this experience before or this thing that's going on. This thought or feeling. And I like it. If you don't realize that everything is transient, no matter how much you like it, how much you love it, how much you want to keep it there, it's transient. It's going to change. We don't want it to change. So what do we do? We resist it. And recognize that any resistance you are in, you are in conflict. And any conflict you're in makes you anxious, fearful, unhappy, depressed. Uneasiness. What's another word for uneasiness? Disease. There's a resistance, conflict and disease going on. Same with something you don't like comes up.

We immediately jump on that because we want to get rid of it. So we resist it by trying to get rid of it. Resistance, conflict and disease. Going on both ways. Whether you like it or dislike it. And all appears the opposite. So resistance, conflict and disease. That's the cause of all our problems. What happens if you leave everything as it is? Unaltered, unmodified, uncorrected. Just as is. And you realize that all these concepts you have, all the thoughts, feelings, emotions, all life itself is transient. It's constantly and ever changing. How are you going to keep any of these things there if you recognize that?

Aren't you going to be with it and allow it to move on? Have a look outside now. This earth we're sitting on is rolling around us at great speed. So it's constantly changing. This moment that's facing, where we're sitting is facing toward the sun and it's light. As it rolls around it'll fire first away from the sun and it'll be dark. Does the earth itself know anything about daylight or dark? Or does daylight and dark know anything about itself? We didn't put those labels on and discriminate it. It'll be just as it is. And you know what to do in the moment, which we do.

So we've got to recognize this conceptual me and say it's a fiction. So you see, I'll run out of words. Helen, where are you going? Memory's going a bit and I'm getting a bit forgetful. You're doing great. Yes, so we've got to recognize this conceptual image. That's the key. I mean, everything is about identifying with the false image made of concepts. Image made of past experiences and events, as he said. And we can see very easily how conceptual it is. Like people who are actually Bob's old associates, as I mentioned before. They actually think I'm primitive, power hungry, manipulative, whatever, bitch or monster or whatever.

That's the concept they have of me. They see because they want only Bob to speak. They see it and that's, you know, they write. That's how they perceive things. They look through their own filters, through their own projections. And that's the image they have. Is it who I am? Not in my experience. My best friend has an image of me that I'm wonderful. I'm awesome. I'm absolutely glorious. I'm happy, easy to be around and fantastic travel buddy. Is that who I am? No. That's also a limited image. That's something. I'm the totality. I'm none of it. I'm not a good one or a good one.

I used to have image of myself. I used to think that I know what I am. I thought I know what I was. I thought I was vulnerable, fragile, afraid of rejection or whatever sensitive person. I thought I was this. And is that what I am? Well, I was so convinced this was what I am that if anybody would actually even point at this, I would take it personally. I would get offended. I would get trashed. At some point, Bob helped me to see that this is not what I was. The sensitivity, the vulnerability, the primitivism, the awesomeness, they're all just labels. They're all concepts that we put on ourselves.

And we may embody it. We may wear them like a jacket. We may identify, yes, this is me. I agree. But this agreeing is only in the head. This is only conceptual. Any image or any concept that you can have of yourself, I'm the body, I'm the mind, I'm good, I'm bad. I'm primitive or I'm awesome or I'm fragile or I'm inferior or whatever. They're all thoughts. They're all concepts. And this is where it actually gets, this is a turning point when you actually realize that you cannot know what you are. Non-concept. None of the concepts will ever fit what you are. You are the mystery.

You are the life. You are the totality. You are a mystery. You can't know it. Like how? What would you have to do to know something? You have to be outside of it to actually be able to observe it. How can you know yourself? When you get outside of self to observe you, you're already that outside thing. You're already not you anymore. So then it's just completely impossible to understand. Bob says it in one words. The answer is not in the mind. You can't find the answer in the mind. You can't find who you are, what you are, and what everything is in the mind.

Because there are only thoughts there. There are only labels there. There is no true in thoughts and labels. So you can't ever and nobody can ever find out who they are or what they are. The only thing that we are left with is I am. I know that I am. I can't deny it. This is not a belief. This is a fact. Everything else is a belief. As Bob said before, unquestioned acceptance of something. Unquestioned acceptance of something. I can, you know, the guy who calls me whatever monster, I can accept it and suicide. Or the girl that calls me awesome, I can just get narcissistic and egotistic about that.

Or I can accept my own vulnerability. Acceptance of something and taking it for gospel. Believing, oh yeah, that's it, that's true. That's still a belief. That's not a reality. The only thing that we know without believing, the only thing that we know for certain, is I am. Existence. Even when we forget the words, the I am, the sense of existence is still there. That's the truth. Everything else is maya. Everything else is belief, is illusion, is manifestation, and is transient. You can very easily see how your conceptual image of yourself is changing over the years or even throughout the day. Something good happens and you feel good about yourself.

Something bad happens. Something bad happens or the weather is bad or you step out of the bed with the left foot. And, ah yeah, the image is shape-shifter. It's constantly changing. The image we had as children of ourselves, where is it now? So this is all concepts. We know that we are the pure essence of existence, pure I am, pure being. The awareness of presence is the ultimate reality. This is the enlightenment. This is the freedom. This is the non-conceptual awareness. Now, on top of that, shows up all the different transient images. I'm a woman. I'm Polish. I'm this. I'm that. Or I'm monster. I'm awesome.

I'm inferior. This is just the changing, passing experiences. Those are labels that are coming and going. They're totally to be questioned. They're not to be trusted. Because if they are, if the identification comes into it, if the beliefs comes into it, it goes with the package. It goes with suffering. It goes with need to defend that image. It goes with need to beautify that image. Work on myself. Grow. Improve. Get better. As the life expressed through me, that's no good. As God created me, God is an idiot. I have to make it better. I mean, it is how ridiculous it is, really. So finding out the truth of our existence, the awareness of presence and abiding as that, as Nisargadatta says, diamond of good fortune, rest the awareness in that I am.

And ignore the distractions. Just forget about all that passing phenomena. And of course they will show up. They're beautiful. They are to be appreciated. The weather, oh, what a gorgeous thing, weather. Inner weather, my moods, my, you know, like whatever, the energetic experiences in the body. Outer weather, the circumstances, inner weather. Whatever is happening within in the inner world. They all the same phenomena, passing phenomena, manifestation. They to be loved, absolutely. They to be celebrated, absolutely. But taking them for reality comes with the package, comes with suffering, comes with needing to be right, needing to convince others that what I believe is better than what you believe.

The way I see you is better than the way or more truthful than the way you see me or I see you. Or I see somebody else or you see somebody else. It just comes with all that mental turmoil, the suffering, that is completely unnecessary if you rest in that uncontrived singularity of what you are and see the world, the manifested world, as the movie, as the passing phenomena, as absolutely wonderful, entertaining, miracle, changing moment to moment, as the sounds are changing, as the scenes are changing, the thoughts are changing, mental images are changing. But they are not true, they are just passing phenomena. If you take it seriously, it hurts.

If you don't, it entertains. So finding out that you are, we don't really need to. We know that we are. As Bob says, are you unaware? Don't you exist right now? Are you not existing right now? Yes, you do. It's not a belief. If somebody tells you, oh no, you don't exist, can you really try and not exist and see if you can? No, it's not a belief. Make yourself believe that you don't exist. Try and do it. It's not going to work. The existence is the fact. We have absolute certainty of the existence. What we are, that's a different story. That's the changing phenomena.

I'm the body. No. I'm the mind. No. I'm vulnerable. No. I'm this. And it's constantly changing. So this is phenomena, manifestation, maia, illusion. Everything that is changing is illusion. Everything that stays the same throughout the life, the pre-sense, the pre-sensory experience of certainty of existence, awareness of being, that doesn't change. That's the reality. And now, if we look for the bliss, because somebody told us that enlightenment enlightenment of freedom from suffering is going to be a peaceful blissful experience of love and heart essence all the time then we have the mental image and we are seeking for 20 30 years to find the state in which we're going to experience this pleasure and we're missing out on the aliveness that is here now so going to the mind to find the way to get pleasure is precisely what the search the seeking is all about so to realize that seeking is taking us away from that present awareness of our existence into the story of how it should be it is basically just investing the whole precious attention into what is not instead of being with what is but for the mind where we are conditioned to spend most of our attention most of our attention is on the mind and we are conditioned to spend most of our attention a little bit of attention goes to seeing hearing tasting touching smelling but most of it goes into overlaying the reality of this moment with interpretation what it means what it means for me what do they think of me so this overlay takes so much of the attention and it's so juicy it's so entertaining it's so dramatic that even the idea of dropping off from that entertaining dramatic juiciness of mind feels boring okay so what's the being like but it is only boring for the mind if you really drop down and find the anchor in that sweetness of of home that you never left the intimacy of the this there is there is a sweetness that can be found in the mind and it is the same thing with the mind and the mind is not entertained anymore when the habit of of going to that drama is at least loosen up because it doesn't really break the brain as bob says is gonna work mind is gonna throw thoughts that's what minds do but the habit of identifying and believing in that mental noise when this one loosens up now we are watching the movie not being destroyed not operating anymore but rather the life of us in this moment we are all at our senses so right now when i'm Post-ahogoamall oats more time in glory times for them at a material level completely different from before now the beauty of life now when the life is not threatened it gets completely different flavor i'm not focusing i'm not paranoid about what is going to happen in next month or next year or next november finally i will show this to you Bryt earrings veneta The whisper can go, Bob shows this example often, something may be whispering behind and we will miss it, we won't hear it.

And it could be a turning point because the attention is not in the present. Something could open up. But we are so busy with the inner dialogue that we miss it. And then life is just so, the aliveness comes back when the drama is actually abandoned and we just come back to this essence, the core, the heart of the existence. And it is reasonably easy. Just pause the thought and see who are you without your story. Who are you if you don't think about it? And see that you still are. You still exist. Bob is saying on the level of the body, the heart is beating even though you're not thinking.

The blood is being pumped even though you don't think. But even if you don't really think. Even if you don't really think. You don't really worry about the body because of course, you know, the heart is beating and the blood is pumping when you think about it and you conceptualize it and you have the mental image of what is going on. Without mental images you just are. Pure existence. And it may take a while to find the taste to recognize, reacquire that sweetness of being again. And the destruction of the mind can be still, it's almost as if we used to put so much salt on our food.

We used to put so much salt and pepper that if you put less it kind of is tasteless. It feels like, ah yeah, yuck. Because we got used to that drama. But anyone who was having any problem with abusing chilis or salt and had to cut it down because of the doctor's advice. I heard many, many people telling me, even Bob had this after he quit smoking. He couldn't taste anything. For a month or so. Was it? And then you started eating sunflowers, you said. And the taste buds slowly started getting alive again. So same, this is so spicy. There is so much salt and sugar and pepper and chili.

There's so much drama there. That the sweetness of vitality, of aliveness is completely overwhelmed by this. But when we cut down on that destruction, like this taste of the sunflowers, the taste of the breath, of breathing the body, of the energy going through the body, suddenly you can sense other people's feelings. Suddenly you can, and there may be negative feelings too. And you're still okay with that. Because that's what life is displaying. That's what life is presenting. So it is an invitation to question whether recreating. And re-embodying the conceptual image forever and ever. And getting into this juicy drama which has its highs and its lows.

Is it worthy? Is it worth it? Or maybe if you find yourself here, there is a time to a little bit of a reconditioning or deconditioning. Deconditioning, disillusioning. Like recognizing thoughts for what they are, the thoughts. Recognize the images for what they are, the images. Enjoy them for what they are. Don't take them to be reality. Because that takes you to a completely different level of aliveness. The dream will go on. But you will see the dream, you will enjoy the dream just as much as you do already. Because nothing is really changing apart from that little trick of the reinterpretation, retranslation of the mind.

When mind stops translating everything as relevant to the me, which doesn't exist. The dream goes on. And it's as beautiful or more. It goes on. The dream, waking up from the dream, is not, this is not what Advaita is about. Waking up to the dream is the offering. Waking up from the dream is inevitable when the body dies. But when the body is still alive, realizing dream as a dream. That's what Nisargadatta says. You remember the quote? The dream is not your problem. Yes, you dream your dream, you call the world. Stop looking for ways out. The dream is not your concern. Your concern is to love one part of the dream and not the other.

He says love all of it or none of it. And the rest will be done for you by the same power, or as you like to call it, power of the same essence that brought you into existence. It's growing you. It's breathing you. It's up in your heart. Growing you from a little embryo of sperm and ovum. It's growing you. It's growing you. It's growing you. It's growing you. It's growing you. It's growing you to what you are today. And the person is not reality when you look at that word persona. Where does that come from? Persona the mask? We've got a mask of concepts.

We've put on hiding our true nature. We're hiding our reality in believing in that fictitious entity we've taken ourselves to be. That's what I always say at the start, I can't teach you anything. I can't tell you anything. All I can do is point to it and ask you to look, to do it for yourself. You'll realize that nobody can ever teach you or tell you anything because they're all, all of us, are pattern, shapes and forms appearing as something real which we're not. Another way I put it is I'm not talking to any body, I'm not talking to any mind. I'm not talking about body, mind, entity, you believe yourself as being.

I'm talking about that sense of presence that expresses through the mind as the thought I am. Just to this, nothing else, to that sense of presence. Someone who is not present right now without any concepts on it. Even if you think, oh I'm not present, well that's a concept you put on it. Drop that too. I am present. But you can't negate it, the actual knowing without even mouthing the words that you are right here and right now. So everything is always and ever and only that. So if you've got any questions or arguments or talk about it, you know, get into it, bring it about.

Nobody is ever going to do it for you. Just a matter of simple. Simply seeing it for yourself. And there is nobody who is not seeing right in this moment. But seeing this and seeing that, you've lost sight of it through seeing. Seeing everything as it is. Unaltered, unmodified, uncorrected. Any alteration, modifying or correction will come about by the natural functioning, not by you trying to manipulate or do something about it. Just the same as every breath you take is a fresh and new breath. Do you think you've taken our breath in? No. The entity, the bleed-in entity is a concept based on past events and experiences and conditioning.

It's a dead image of that we're relating to. It's been so long repeated that it can seem like a sensation, it can feel like something real or solid in the body. But when you look at them, there's nothing there. Can you find a sticking point or a centre in that body anywhere? That you can say this is what I am? Every time I wake up and the body may age, I can see it. I can see it. I can see it. I can see it. I can see it. I can see it. I can see it. I can see it. I can see it. I can see it.

I can see it. I can see it. Every time I wake up and the body may age, it's still the same. If the life dropped out of a night-time and you went to sleep, what would you wake up with then? No. You wake up with these things but realise that it's the life itself that they're taking place in. Not the conceptual imagination. imagine me seeing it or doing it. But it's been reinforced day in and day out. It seems very solid and substantial. And so it's not, nothing there when you investigate it. Funny enough the same thing happens when people actually, especially professional drivers, they identify with their cars.

But also there is this psychological scale or so, or gosh I don't remember, they say the biggest stress in life is the death of the spouse because people identify with the spouses. They become like part of the body, almost like a limb of them that is cut off. Divorce is number two. I mean you can have six children and they can all be killed and the stress for the body is less. The pain is more but the stress is less. Because as much as we identify with the body, we identify with the car, with the house, with the spouse. Not as much but almost as much.

You could see the analogy when you have the same car for twenty years and you drive it and then something happens to the car. I heard many, many people saying that, oh you know I have electric problems with my car and immediately I went to the doctor because I knew there is going to be something with my heart and yeah, lo and behold it was. They actually even, you know, kind of read the signals. They have the subconscious mind tuned into that, ah it means this. And it does. It actually does for them. Yeah, because it's believed in. In the same way you believe you are the body because you're wearing it every morning.

When you sleep at night you wear a different body. This one is sleeping on the bed and you are walking with some other body that this one is sleeping so it's obviously not this. And you believe that you are the other body that is walking. Until you wake up and then you again take this body that is you. That's the only problem you've got, the belief that you're a separate entity, an individual, an ego and all the things that go along with it. And the saga tells you that. It says nothing can trouble you excepting your own ego. Imagine, imagination. Rake that word down, imagination, down to image in.

Imagine. And realise we're creating mental images, mental concepts all the time and believing there is something there. There is an image there that has some substance or any independent nature. You said before about the beginning was the Word. Can you explain a bit better that? I don't quite understand. When you say the beginning, you mean the beginning of the dream or the beginning, well there was no beginning. People think everything began. When did you begin? You'll say you began at birth because you had no words then so you can't remember your beginning and you don't really remember anything about yourself until you've learned words. So imagine questioning the first couple of years of your life.

You did all sorts of things without the word and we've taken the word to be real and function in the words. So when you say in the beginning was the word it's when the body starts to use words. Beginning of the ego, of the conceptual image, of identification with the image. Because life was going on before, like when you were in a womb or when you were a little baby you didn't really need the words to exist but when you did you started labeling yourself and that was the... See even the word beginning. There is no beginning if you don't put the label, the word.

And then also, will you start to label yourself? You start to label yourself. You start to label yourself. Will you start to label yourself? You start to label yourself. You start to label yourself. With the whole dream, whole separation comes with the word. And then we learn words, obviously, you know, you don't get it like fixed two years or three years. Depends on the language. Some language is more easy to learn, some is more difficult. But it's average when the psychologists do this mirror test. When they put a piece of paint on the baby's face and the baby is looking and it's not recognizing itself.

And at some point it does, it connects, oh, there are a reflection, the me. Oh, I'm this. And then, you know, the labeling starts. And since then they start craving for, you know, because baby obviously it needs love and attention, it's vulnerable. It needs the mother to be happy. It needs to be a warm loving family. But now it takes responsibility for it. Before that it was pleasing the mother, laughing or smiling or whatever, completely naturally, just like dogs and cats do. And at some point it starts, the tension comes with it. Oh, my mother doesn't love me. There is a me now. So that's when all the problems start.

Yeah. Yeah. That's, and then they build up. Of course. With age when the demands are stronger and the tension is bigger and that child is trying harder and it, you know, it solidifies the identity in which it can't satisfy everyone because it can't. I mean. And we carry around all these dead images about what happened to the mother. Yeah. And the images of her childhood and this and that and throughout life, all the things have happened. They now dead. But we resurrect them and put the belief in something real. We add on to this conceptual image. We've got to build it onto this ego. Oh, I'm no good or I'm depressed or I'm unhappy or a bad childhood or all the rest of it.

We add it onto that I thought. And that, on the beginning was the word, is a statement from the Bible. So it is the way I was explained that Bible is basically just a imagery or a set of analogies to actually explain the creation in a way that could be understood by the common mind. But if you really take it literally the way Bob shows it, it shows literally like, you know, the whole concept of the reality, it's a thought in the universal mind is a word in the universal mind. And this word become flesh. It becomes real because it is believed by the life essence.

Life essence embodies. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It's on creation and gives it a reality the same way as you believed in Santa Claus when you were a child, or people believed in flat Earth and they experienced it. This was a reality. And now they experience the reality of galaxies or whatever, whatever they believe now. It's the belief is, well, the non-duality is only one. There is not that there is an energy of belief, an energy of life or energy of awareness. No, this is just one thing. It's all one thing. But it's almost like, fuel you know this is this fuels everything so whatever is the thought or the word and when it is beliefs and believed it is a reality absolutely yes yes so what is not belief if you question absolutely everything there is one thing left that you can't question that's the fact of your own being and this is where the non duality is always coming back to to the facts to the certainty not to the beliefs everything else is belief exactly yeah so we spend all this time going round and round and round and round and round and round and round and the minds still trying to figure it out it's never gonna know who it is it's only gonna have beliefs that means the mind what can we use and who is we yeah that's the answer Tony yes yeah Bob says show me the mind and you say who is we that what else can we use than the mind mind yeah and who is we that what else can we use than the mind mind.

So there is no me to use the mind or anything at all. And there is no mind to be used either because mind is just a stream of thoughts, one at a time. And we know this when you say I don't mind, somebody's saying something and you don't like it. You say I don't mind. What's the mean? You haven't taken it on board, it's not going to disturb you. There's nothing there, it's not acting on you. We say things sometimes and we don't understand what we're saying. Yeah. But it's real. Yeah. We just brush them off as a stupid saying or you know. The other one is it doesn't matter.

That means it hasn't congealed into solidity. It doesn't matter. Not letting it matter. Spirit and matter, that's the opposite of spirit. Spirit is a subtle aspect, matter seemingly solid. All this manifestation material. If you say it doesn't matter, you're not concerned, you haven't taken a concept about it. Don't mind and you don't matter. Totally correct. Earth or sphere of Earth or whatever you want to call it. So either one is right then, just the concept that either one's got, isn't it? Yeah, exactly. Yeah, either one. Because you said it's all Maya, which is illusion. So in some ways illusion is the round Earth is the illusion of the flat Earth.

Absolutely. Yeah, you got it. You got it. The concept that is dominating the science right now can be broken in a hundred years and they will have different. Different picture. We don't know. This is all concepts. Well, the priest used to say they'll eat meat on Friday. Now they changed it. There you go. They do what they like. Yeah, there you go. Why was meat not good then and it's good now? I mean, the cows don't care. They're dead and now. And see, where is the Earth right now in present experience right now? It's only a mental image. Whether it's flat or it's round, it's a mental image because the direct experience is the content of this room.

Yeah. And the sounds out there, but the rest is just mental image. And it's an image that's cognising or seeing you and I are images. And whatever they say, it's just the megaphone of the universe blaring again. Yeah. Don't eat meat. Yeah. Yeah. And every mental image, everything is made up of that same life essence, that same substance. It's the wave made of the same water from the ocean. It's just how it plays. It's having fun with itself. Do you think the Earth really gives a shit? Whether it's a globe, whether it's flat, or even if it's a cube? Cube. The Earth. Yeah, I understand.

You think it really... So what it is that brings in the distinction is word, which we get taught. That's what brings in the distinction. Is there a beginning without word? Can we even, postulate a beginning without using word? Yeah, it's just... You label it with a word. Yes. The chair, the cat, the dog... Right. And is the word the thing? No. It's not, is it? It's something opposed to the Earth. So that's that empty space, if you like. Non-conceptual, empty space. And that's a concept in itself. You can call it that. No word. No word, no duality, no... Yeah. ...in the world. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. No duality, no split, no labelling, no descriptions. And we put a meaning. The word's amazing. We just put a meaning to a sound. We put a meaning to a sound. That's really basic to see. So basic to see. They aren't symbols, they symbolise sounds. Mm. But then in this world called this dream, it's essential, isn't it? It is what it is. Otherwise, it wouldn't work, would it? It's fantastic. It is what it is. It's to be appreciated. It's amazing. It's a miracle that the mind can have symbols and can represent things that are not indirect experience.

It's cool. There's nothing right or wrong with it. Yeah. Only when you take it for the reality you suffer. Well, I said right or wrong. I mean, what I'm saying is if we didn't have words we wouldn't be able to communicate. We wouldn't be able to... Another way of trying to verbalize it. The system wouldn't work, would it? I don't know. It wouldn't be like it is now. It's complexity. Another way of trying to verbalize that is could there be non-duality without duality? That's right. And could there be duality without non-duality? Nope. So they're both in one and the same thing. That's right. One is the other, as much as the other one is...

One complements the other. If the split's not there, no, no, no, this is... It's really hard to describe this, but if that split's not there, if that dual split doesn't occur, then there's just an absolute singularity and it knows fuck all. There's no dual. There's no split in it. Can't know anything in that split. Just is. Eh. Is. And then there's... So what caused the split? Who cares? There's an expression. There's an... Who wants to know? People call it a love... People call it a love to be. They're all concepts, man. But the reality is... Everything else is just a vibration of energy. Yeah. Vibrates into different patterns, shapes and forms, just like...

Energy stirs in the ocean and forms a wave. What is it? Nothing but water. Yeah. That's really, really... That's so important that the questions that you're asking are really important for you to see in relation to word, in relation to sound, in relation to... In the beginning was the word. Yeah, I've heard that so many times. I've never really understood... Of course, people don't. ...the right questions. People don't. Yeah. And you only need to kind of have just a little bit of a glance at that. Is there a beginning without a word? Yeah. Yeah, you put it that way. Yeah, I understand that. There's not, is there?

They're like, there's not. So what is it that comes into being via the word? What? Let's get really basic with it. You. Me. Them. Everywhere. Yeah. The one. The one. Yes. The one in Ollie. Yeah, and Bob touches it all the time. The reason we have no memory, the reason we can only remember back so far, is because of the word. Yeah, that's right. If the word's not developed, if the word is not known, there's no split. Just being. Just being. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, young people, you see kids, babies, on their back. Tripping out, like loving to be, and they're like six. It's not like they're cracking a joke and they're getting your joke, and they're laughing at you.

Do you remember? Yeah, I remember my grandson. Yeah. Sometimes they're smiling at you, and that's it. Well, if you've had a phase, then that's fine. But there's, there's no word or conceptuality going on in the child, yes, in the six-month-old child. That's right. Because it hasn't learnt word yet. I've seen it in my grandchildren. I've said it in my grantees. And then the other one, the other one's a bit older now. He's free and he's changed. I've noticed a big change in him because now he's become me, mine, everything me. Forgot to go somewhere, me too, me too. Now he's developed that ego or that self, me too, he says.

So in the absence of word, in the absolute... And, you know, I was going to say try and imagine it, and you're imagining it with word, but in the absolute negation of word or thought, let's just assume you could know that for a second, OK? No thought, no mind, no split, no conceptuality, nothing. Where's Tony exist in that? Where are you then? There is no Tony. OK, so what you just told me is what Tony is, is nothing but words and sounds and thoughts. That's what Tony is. Well, that's the idea, rather, of what you think Tony is. Yeah, well done. This is good. What did you say, Dad?

So the point is, like, when we speak of the open mind of a child, an infant who hasn't learned to conceptualise, conceptualise, non-conceptual state is still here. It hasn't gone anywhere. Yeah, absolutely. Never been affected, never been lost. So to think of it as something that was occurring in the past... No, no, it's just obscure. Yeah. Of course, when someone says, a small child can't conceptualise, it has no identity, because it hasn't yet learned the words to identify itself with. It doesn't know it's a boy or a girl, it doesn't know that. It doesn't have a name. It knows absolutely no idea at all, has no idea.

There's no idea. That absence of ideas, that total emptiness, is still here now. Right now, right now, right now. So to conceptualise it about something that only happened to a child in the past is not really useful unless you turn the attention directly to now and see is it still present here now. Is it still here now? Is that non-conceptual state still here now? Otherwise you'll stay in, sneaking it into the mind, you know? So the... Yeah. The object of that pinder is to examine now, right here, is that emptiness still here? Christ says be childlike. What does he mean by that? That's exactly what he means.

Exactly what's being pointed out right now. Be childlike. Be like a little child. And Bob says you are already that, right here, right now. There's nothing lost. And to all intents and purposes, it's gone in the moment of conceptualisation and it's there when the conceptualisation stops. So really, for all intents and purposes, it goes and comes and goes and comes. It's just where the attention goes. It never comes and goes at all. It's always available. So it never comes and goes at all. Well, for all intents and purposes, as far as this set of meanings goes. Even in the deepest daydream and the deepest fantasy you'll ever have in your mind, it's still there.

It's still present. Yeah, it's kind of conceptualisation. It's really what's present. The basis present. The attention more. It never goes. Yeah, you can't really, because I see you are talking about two different things. You are talking, and you're right, you're talking about the non-conceptual, ever-fresh presence awareness. It never goes. It can't. It's the ocean. But the attention moves into thinking, into other things, and is spent elsewhere. It's never lost even then. No, of course it's not lost. That's not knowing that it's lost. Yeah, of course it's not lost. Because the attention's there, the symbolism doesn't go. It would come and either obscure it in any way, ever.

No, it's not. It's only seemingly so. The clouds are illusion. They're only thoughts. They're not real. It's just like the space in this room, you know? The emptiness is a prerequisite for the room to be and the house to be. We didn't build the house and then bring the space in. Before we learnt words, there had to be the space for those words to arise and the natural intelligence to understand them and remember them and learn the meaning of them, you know? Yeah. Spot on. The me can't really grasp that. Duality can't, thoughts can't really grasp that. You know, what Tess said is absolutely spot on and undeniably the truth.

You can't get it. And that's that. Yeah. It can't. So that's why you kind of start with, alright, can I at least work out what the fuck I'm not? Yeah. Exactly. So that's the problem. It's like, you know, I don't know what God is. I don't know, like, you know, I hear these people talking about this emptiness and, you know, alright, so if you can't start at that end, I mean, Bob tries to get people to start at that end or at least start from there and then deconstruct from there if you like, at least come to know what you're not. And everything, it's beautiful what's been discussed here today.

Everything that we believe we are or everything, anything that we believe. that we believe anything is all the product of word only only and we take the word to be the thing bob says it a million times the word fire won't burn my mouth i can't bathe in the word water can i i mean i can't okay but then i go me what's that is the word water water how do you know how do you how do you know how do you know you've got an experience of what water is you know what water is you put that name into that so that's why you recognize me when you go back to me then it's the same thing yeah exactly exactly the same thing the word me doesn't mean that that body well what does it mean so the concept i have of me it's just a labor you can put you we could write the word water down on a piece of paper and pop that there and then we could have a glass of water here if you're really thirsty i know you're not going to go for the piece of paper you're not going to go you know what i mean because you know you know me is the name the image of your body is informed so me is the name beautiful yes name and form name and form name and form when you say me that's the name of this body yeah when you say me when the word me arises whether you notice it or not an image of your body also arises spontaneously that's the way words work if you hear the word blue immediately you see meaning you see if you see blue otherwise you wouldn't know what blue meant that's right yeah i understand that so every time you're saying me i myself Every time you refer to a personal entity, you're referring to an image of the body.

And it's just an image. That's all it is. The same as the water and the actual glass of water. Absolutely. And you need to see that. You need to see that. I've got my eyes open, mate. Directly. You're getting there. You're getting there. Directly in your own mind. You see how your mind works after a while. You see how the mind works. You see what we're talking about here. Name and form and learning words has built the conceptual world and including the person that lives in it, which is a conceptual person living in a conceptual world. But underlying it all is your presence. You're always present.

Always present. Does that go back to when you said that there's no... That was a great camera. I see his name. Mind reader. A couple of weeks ago you said, Yeah. When you look, there's no head. I've heard this somewhere else too. On having no head, yeah. There's no head. And whatever we see actually pops up. So in other words, while I'm looking now the room, that's all exists in my reality. Just this room. It's hearing and awareness. Right. And outside for me doesn't exist. Yeah, but what we generally do is we go, I'm in the room. I'm in the room. Whereas the reality is the room is appearing in, oh God, I'm going to say your awareness.

Yeah. And that's incorrect. And that's incorrect, but I'm going to say that. Mm-hmm. But see what Taz just pointed to you. You know, there is nama, rupa, me, which is the word and the mental image. And there is presence. Like Terry was talking about the piece of paper with the word and the glass of water, water. Yeah. Now you have the me, conceptual image and the sense of presence knowing that you exist. So which one are you? Yeah, I understand what you mean. Yeah. One of them is real. Yeah, one is not. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And one changes and one doesn't. Yeah. One changes and one doesn't.

Your sense of presence is never altered from as way back as you can remember. Even back to, yeah. It's always there. It's always there. Yeah. But like as way back as you can possibly remember that your sense of aliveness or your sense of presence has always been the same. Then what gets laid on top of that is the me's experiences. Now I'm going to this school. Now I'm getting beaten up by this bully at this school. Teacher doesn't like me. I'm not getting good enough grades. I go home and dad hits me. Like clips me across the ear. Right. Whatever the story is. But then the story gets overlaid on that presence.

Well, because something just. Get a bit of touch to that. See it pre-sense. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. All we've labeled it as any fear or anger or any other sensations. Just see it's pre-sense. It's what is when they go. And the thing is, since we call it me, it's my self. But aren't we talking about non-duality? Non-duality is just one self. There's only one self. Not a personal self. We'd say to myself, we think we've got a self there. Yeah. Cause we learnt the word and I while stating the word. But that self is self aware. It's self knowing. It's self shining. It's one self expressing as everything.

That's the same as the word SOL. S-O-U-L. People think they've got a soul. I don't know anybody that's ever seen one or found one. What if they took the word S O L E. SOL. Be alone. Only. Everything is that. SOL One's SOL. It's all unitary. They've been able to measure, I don't believe it anyway, somebody dying, they've been able to measure the weight of the soul when the soul leaves, that the body was different weight. How do they know it was a soul? It might have been a big fart. Might be the last one. The last big fart. You are rough. Soul is a religious thing more than anything else isn't it?

It's just a nicer way of, because ego has negative connotation and soul is kind of having a sweet connotation. You know, I want to get rid of the ego is my shadow, is everything bad, and my soul is my virtues. It's a mind self. Yeah, it's another conceptual image, a little bit beautified, a little bit romanticised. I think the idea of soul is also dualistic, you know, like it's me soul, you soul, blah, blah, blah. Everybody's got a soul, you know, so that means it goes back to duality. Yes, separate, yes. Separateness, yes. Whereas the truth is it's the one soul function through everyone. Through everyone, yeah.

The oneness. Or the sauce, like Judith likes to call it. The ketchup. The ketchup. So if you take that my self, the personal soul, and be the pure self, you are the self, the very, the one essence. And all this appears in who? Ron or however you like to put it. A really good thing for you to ponder, so who am I, or what am I, without word. Just that, ponder that. One day I was to listen to him and he used to say who are you without words, concepts, memories, thoughts, associations. And no alphabet. And no alphabet, yes. Which is the same thing as what you're saying.

Watching without naming. What? Watching without naming. With naming, yes. Without naming. Yes, sort of. It's sort of, but the question's a bit deeper than that. Dare I use that word deeper? Who or what am I without word? It's another version of the way Bob asked the questions. What's wrong with right now if I don't think about it? Or who am I if I don't think about it? Is there a past if I don't think about it? Is there a future if I don't think about it? What is there if I don't think? It's a reoccurring position, but I think about it. Do I disappear? Yeah.

Without word. Interesting. There's a beingness without word. I wonder if that's it. The word will go. But that's okay. Our whole identity is just based on word. And word is just a sound that we give a meaning to. A sound is just a vibration. I've said it a few times. If, like, right now, in the immediacy of this moment, every thought that started bouncing around in your head was in Chinese. Like, seriously. Chinese. It would mean nothing to me. I mean, yeah, but, like, there wouldn't even be a me there because your me is all in Chinese too. It'd be peaceful. There wouldn't be a you there in English going, oh, that's interesting.

Now all the thoughts that are going on in my head are in Chinese. Because that you would also be in Chinese. Do you understand? That me would also be in Chinese. And it's so... And what impact would it have? How long would you remain interested in what was going on in there if it was just all in Chinese? Well, if I understood Chinese, it wouldn't make nothing to me. That's the worst. But then you want to. You just wonder why would that happen. I won't be a problem listening to something. If you couldn't think in English, you still wouldn't... No. You just wonder why is this happening, but you wouldn't know what it was.

You wouldn't even know why is this happening because that would be in Chinese also. But why are you thinking in Chinese? You know what I'm saying? That thought was like, why am I thinking in Chinese? If that would be in Chinese, you wouldn't understand. No. No. You reckon you wouldn't try? No. You don't believe in language. I'm talking about it. I'm talking about it in the absolute sense. If it was all Chinese, everything, the me, the... So if it was all Chinese, there would just be noise. Wait a minute. There are two conversations going on here. Let's speak one by one because there are groups forming here.

I'm sure he's trying to make a point of that. I would say prioritize what Bob is saying because he's not going to be here forever. He's the boss. So what were you saying, Bob? Oh, finish it. It's all right. Come on. Come on. One word is more important. Yeah? One more. All right. Okay. So just... Yeah. Next time, just wait until someone finishes because it's rude. Sorry. Do you understand what I'm saying? Like, do you... Can you... Thank you. So what I'm trying to point out is that we give... I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry.

I'm sorry. I'm sorry. But we give... We give meaning to a sound. Right. ... that we are familiar with. So it's just a sa... It's just a sound. And then what we do is we attach a word or a label to that sound. Okay? And then what we attach to the label is what the label means. So we've one, two, three. Okay? And then... And then, in... In relation to who or what we believe ourselves to be, we take ourselves to be... Mm-hmm. whatever is written in the label or written in the story of the labels. We take that to be who we are, all based on a sound, just a sound that we give meaning to.

So it all boils down to the non-conceptual awareness that was pointed at the beginning. So what's wrong with right now if I don't have any concepts, if I don't have any words? This is what Bob is often quoting Dzogchen saying, great perfection. You want to say it? What's the great perfection? No talking. Oh come on, I wanted to get him back on board, sorry. Yeah, anyway, the great perfection is non-conceptual awareness. So it's awareness without words, awareness without concepts. That's it. And that is there all the time, that cannot be lost. The awareness of presence, the awareness of being, it cannot be obscured. The aliveness.

The... Consciousness of existence or whatever way we want to put on it. Now the thoughts are not obscuring it like Tasi was saying. They're not. They're just clouds passing in the sky and they're not real. They're transient. They're not even real. So if the thoughts are appearing on the non-conceptual awareness and they are recognized from that non-conceptual awareness as thoughts, they're not a problem. Thinking's not a problem. Images, even images. Like I remember my first conversation one-on-one with Bob, not only. I could see the conceptual image that I had of myself and I've seen it for the last time because I could never ever make myself believe that bullshit again.

But also I realized that we can't really function the way the computer is constructed. We don't really function without concepts. We do form concepts. So I asked Bob, how do you function without having concepts when people come? And he says, concepts come up. They come up. What's the problem with that if you know they're just concepts? Yeah. I can have concepts about someone or something. It's not a problem. But I understand this is just a concept that came up. So the conceptual image of me, if it would ever come up, it would be a conceptual image of me. It wouldn't be a problem. It doesn't because it doesn't.

But if it did, it's not a problem. The images I have of other people or they have of me, that's okay. That's why they, you know, people who call me whatever they called me, they can't hurt me because they are offending an image, conceptual image they have of me. Yeah. I am the mystery. I am the life. How can they touch me? And they are not separate from me. They're just another wave on the same ocean. And the play within the images and the thoughts and concepts is just appearing on the surface of that great perfection, non-conceptual awareness. So coming back to that, what everyone is saying, back to the point where, yeah, what's true?

If the thoughts are really not given the priority, if they're not given the importance. They're there, but that's okay. What's the point? What's there underneath? Or what's the screen on which all the thoughts, the images, the identities appearing? Because that's the ultimate truth. That's what everyone is looking for. They're looking for bliss, for experience of pleasure, physical pleasure, or light, or love, or something. Some imaginary ideas that they have in the head that they think they will find in future. While here, right here, right now, this great perfection. It's fully available. And it's fully expressing as everything, as every thought, as every sound, as everything.

It's just there. It's just too close to the eyes to be seen. But it can't be missed either. It can't be denied. So there's nothing really to find. It's really just something to lose. It's to lose the illusion that there's me which will gain that pleasure or that bliss. Both the bliss and the me are just concepts. In non-conceptual awareness, there is no me and there is no pleasure. There is no enlightenment or ecstasy or bliss or whatever. They are all in the head. They're all mental images. So there's no me, right? Then who's talking at the moment? There's only one. There's no one talking.

It's just life expressing us everything. That's why Bob is saying in the beginning, I'm not talking to anybody. I'm not talking to any mind. It's just one life. The same way that cat is meowing and the dog is barking, people are talking, but this is the life that makes them use the mind. use the voice box and and express the unique pattern of personality the conditioning that they are it's not me talking exactly that's precisely it life happens I'm not beating my heart life does it I'm not speaking my language life does it I often comes and take credit no no I'm breathing life's not bringing me I'm doing it I'm blinking my eyes I'm growing my hair I'm digesting my food no life does everything the credit-taking habit that I take credit for what life is doing I am keeping myself alive I am going to work rising my children exactly ego is a credit-taking machine you wanted to say something the Christ told you a couple of them take no thought for your life what you should eat what you should drink what you should wear okay the birds in the air they don't sow crops or gather into barns and all the grind in case tore it up and the lilies in the field even Solomon and all his glory couldn't create all the colors that are in beauty in them and it says your father's good pleasure to give it great give you these things you know they're talking about the fire not talking about Big Daddy running us but that life essence in which everything is the base of everything to give you the kingdom great all I think and and most good ideas are simple so when you actually see the truth in everything including the Bible and Shakespeare and you know what Bob says you see it in everything you know and most good ideas are simple let's get Fernando voice he had a question or some when you are speaking about bliss Newton that presence is nobly you mean the way you experience presence is not please you are telling that presence is nobly you are referring to normal happiness or ananda ananda the sachet ananda the last portion is yes yes so which one you are getting well this is this is a very good question because a lot of people are looking for that bliss and they expect they think they're going to find some imaginary ecstasy they have imagination of the of the bliss or ecstasy or orgasm or whatever while the bliss of being is is very true is very real if it's unobscured by all the distractions there is a sweetness to the being if you leave your head and you drop down to that you know it's a place like home it feels like resting in the heart of hearts is there is a sweetness to it but that's sweetness is also you know because the mind is is dualistic and is invested in the Maya and this is again this is how life wants it that bliss is you distract yourself from it so it's not that you know Bob is does he look like he's experiencing a constant ecstasy ask him especially when when he was in the hospital and he they cut off his hip and they put the artificial one it wasn't very blissful I can tell you but yes the bliss of being there is a sweetness to it if the distraction is for a moment absent if you don't really focus into the drama and you rest in your heart and yes it's peaceful is blissful is sweet is there but again because because you spend your attention elsewhere it almost feel that's why people often come to the point where I had it and I lost it I experienced this bliss and expansion and there's no contraction and I lost it now this is again the credit taking mind that thinks this was a me that experienced the bliss while this is totally opposite the bliss is there all the time is the me that hides it so the the bliss doesn't lose itself it is the satchitananda doesn't lose itself is there is the depth of the ocean and then the attention goes to the wave and the storm comes on the surface and it is and the bliss is kind of obscured because attention doesn't you know doesn't really rest on it so get peace of mind it goes away of peace is when the mind is not that's what I call the place that pass is all understanding we've got porsche buyemore look we're looking for something we can understand and grasp with the mind it doesn't happen and that's what the Francis could sit in his prayer you know and let there be hatred in there with us hunting blah blah blah he goes off, where he goes on what, NJ?

He says, for only by dying I can have eternal life. He's not talking about carcana. He's talking about dying to that sense of self. Dying to the me. Then there is eternal. St. Paul tells you the same thing when he says, I die daily. He wasn't carcana every day either. Just dying to that sense of self. When you die to that sense of self, then be thought free. Let the thoughts come. Doesn't mean to say you have to stop thoughts. People think, let the thoughts be. Just come and go, which they will. Unless they're fixated on, a thought will move on, just like the clouds in the sky.

They're not attached or fixated on the sky. They move along. And the same when you go outside and the same when the clouds cover the sun. You say the sun's not in the sky? No. No matter how dark the cloud is, you know, you've recognised and understood that the sun's not in the sky. The sun never leaves the sky. And then you have a look at what forms the cloud. That's obscured it. And it's thought that's obscured this essence of our... And you realise it's the sun itself that forms the cloud. All the sun does is shine. In that self-shining, it's radiance, it heats water.

The water evaporates and the wind blows and cools it down and it comes, forms a cloud which covers the sun. But there's no cloud stitched on the sky under the... built under the sun. They move. And all our thoughts are transient too. You've got to understand they come and they go. We fixate on them and keep them there. We beat ourselves up with the word. Not necessary. Could you just briefly repeat the question again? Um, no, I was just asking Kat... Yes. ..about the... She was talking about presence. Presence or we were talking about? Yeah. Yeah. So, it is no bliss. So I was asking her if it is the normal happiness.

Happiness, the feeling. Or it is ananda. Ananda is something different. So... Thank you. So my question to you would be, why do you need to know that? There is no need. No need? But just cannot. Yeah. So there's no... You've got... There's nothing attached to that. Anyway. No. Somehow it just came out and impulse came. Yeah. But if you ask me now, there was no need. Beautiful. Yeah. Wonderful. I'll shut up. And that's great that you let it come out because a lot of people can have the same question and they don't dare to ask because they're shy. Yeah. So it's beautiful if you let it come out because someone can hear it.

Yeah. And people from Europe and America watching, they can... For what? They can benefit from it. That's it. And that's it Bob is saying. Now Bob is telling us that the time has caught up with us. And you want to say the last word? The last word of Bob is silence. Yeah. Silence is the best pointer. It's... As the Zagareta says, my silence sings, my emptiness is full. That's it. That's it. That's it. That's it. That's it. That's it. That's it. That's it. That's it. That's it. That's it. That's it. That's it. That's it. That's it. That's it. And my emptiness is full. Uh-huh. Hm.

Just takes place in the silence and stillness. My silence sings, my emptiness is full. And singing streams in your memory of... He'll be playing in your head and it'll come up for itself. It's not disturbing the silence very much, is it. Thank you.