Sailor Bob - Non Duality - Emptiness is form - 9 Oct 2018

That's one trouble with that suit. I don't care if my legs don't touch the ground, I just like to have my back right on it. You want to say your names just in case there is anyone who doesn't know someone? Jane, Cathy, Tony, Karl, Kieran, Justin, Robin, Terry and Bob. And cut. Okay, so I wasn't allowed to even offer Bob to start it. He says, you kick it off without even asking me. But we'll see. I'll be asking. Anyway. Yes, so non-duality. What else can we say about it that we didn't say before? It's about the one essence that is appearing as more than one.

Appearing as multitude of different forms and patterns and shapes and sounds and sights and smells and everything else. So it is basically just one. It's one. It's a duality. It's the idea that there is more than one is the duality. So even saying that there is a screen, like basic screen or emptiness or silence, and in that emptiness or screen or silence there are sounds and other things appearing is actually a duality. Because the screen and the content are not separate. They're made of the same essence. They're basically different. And the dynamic aspect of it, like we are talking about static aspect and dynamic aspect.

So static aspect is called Shiva or emptiness or cognizing emptiness or just space, silence, awareness, consciousness, God, whatever. And the dynamic aspect is the way it expresses. So dynamic aspect is Shakti, which is the movement in the stillness. There is a movement. And or it's not really in the stillness movement. Stillness moves or the silence sounds or the emptiness forms. The emptiness, it is the form. So it basically just appears through the different. That's the easy way to demonstrate it's different frequency of the vibration. It appears as the other. So the same essence, the same one substance, whatever in the human range from four to 40 kilohertz or whatever.

It appears as a sound. And then it appears as a light or it appears as the particle that constructs matter. Or it appears as thought, which is really much subtler than the sound. But it's still a vibration. It's still the movement. So when we see the world this way, that it is just a different like Bob sometimes uses the analogy of the water, different condensations. Different. Like you can, you can freeze the water and become solid or you can evaporate the water and become steam. So it is really all the water just showing up in a different in a different aspects of itself. So the whole appearance is made of that emptiness, intelligent cognizing emptiness that is showing itself as the as different vibrations as the body, because that's the conglomerate, the whole body.

Right. Right. The whole society of different vibrations, bacteria or whatever. And as whatever is appearing and the body can cognize it through the senses. So this is this all basically one and the same essence. Now, how to realize it practically? Very easily. Just is really enough to stop thinking, going to the head. And it doesn't mean to stop it permanently. It's just to stop it for a moment. To realize that the thinking is. The thinking is dividing everything. The labeling is dividing everything. Naming it and perceiving it as us other gives it the reality. It's like almost like believing in it gives it a reality.

Same way as when humanity believed in a in in the that Earth was flat or the sun was moving around it. That very belief created the experience. Unless it was challenged. It was the truth. It was unquestionable truth. Nobody even looked to question it in say, in the same way, children believe in Santa Claus or monsters under the bed or other stuff. And it appears for you. Yeah. Say something. Go on. Give me false hopes. Again. The same way we believe that there is someone there inside the body or that I am identical to the body. That body is what I am. The same way.

way this belief has been adopted and when I believe that fully this becomes a reality. So now I start, I leave my life from the assumption that there is a me there that is different and separated from the rest of the world. And because it is separate and the world is outside, the world is threatening. So now I have to look after myself, I have to protect myself, defend myself, make sure everybody likes me or make sure I have enough for tomorrow because it comes in the package with future, with all the fears, with all the anxieties. It comes with the package, with all the past, the conditioning, because to believe that I am the body is really not enough to sustain the illusion.

Illusion is fed with the belief and is embellished with all the stories that happen to me and is enhanced with all the conditioning. And so it grows to such a beautiful, believable story that nobody questions it. Until now, the whole humanity, I don't know how many billions of people right now, hardly anybody ever questions it. And that's fine, that's how life expresses, that's how it is. But you find yourself here perhaps because you can or you want or you will or you do question it. So questioning the idea of separation, of the idea that there is somebody inside that is separate from the world, that is something different than that vibrating pattern of energy that creates every shape, every form and every appearance, everything that appears.

And there is something that is different than that everything. If that one essence, that one emptiness is a substance of every form. How could there be anything that is different or separate? How there could be anything inside or outside the body or anywhere that wouldn't be the same thing? And if it is the same thing, there is no problem. Because the same emptiness constructs the body and someone inside, if I believe there is someone inside, and everybody else also. So there is no separation. I am that essence. If I'm that essence, I'm invulnerable. Body can be destroyed, but I'm the essence. I can be free.

I'm still there in the destroyed body or in any other bodies. But this is not the case usually. The case is that I'm inside or I am the body and I can be destroyed and I am vulnerable and I am inferior and I am unworthy. And now my life is a misery, is hell. And I was told by somebody else that there is a possibility of attaining eternal bliss and being free from suffering. And now I create the imagination about it. Okay, that is what I want. I want eternal bliss. I want a pleasure that never ends. I want a hundred organs, orgasms and light and have supernatural powers and be the greatest.

And that's where the search starts. We are looking for something that we believe is real. That's usually how it begins. We believe that there is an enlightenment that I can get and then I will be released. I will be all light and I will be all love and everybody will bow down to my feet and I will be in a state of ecstasy and pleasure all the time. So now the search may take 20, 30, 40 years. It may take five years. Doesn't matter. But this search makes no sense because what we are searching at that at this point, we are searching for the imaginary picture.

Somebody told us that there is a possibility of attaining such a place or cosmic Union or something like that. And we imagine what it means and we start searching for it. So obviously whatever we find and it doesn't fit to our imagination is being discarded. If somebody tells you, yeah, there's no self. Yes. So what doesn't matter? I want my bliss or maybe someone tells you you are already that. Yeah. Yeah, whatever. But where is the place? So unless unless the waking up process will not start from questioning the dream. The questioning. The idea of gaining or getting something that is blissful something that is not there right now.

The search will be very very long and very very painful possibly never ending. So waking up from the idea that there is something to find waking up that from the idea that there is someone who can find it is the beginning. This is only the first step when I start questioning. Is there really such a thing? As eternal bliss and that's pretty logical because if there was anything like eternal pleasure, we would see that we would see that in animals. We would see that in so-called enlightened like how blissful was Jesus when he says why your father? Why did have you forsaken me? How blissful was this are God at a dying of cancer.

So if we didn't see it and there is still a belief somewhere there that there is such a thing. And I will never rest unless I find it. Well, good luck. Have fun with that. But the beginning is from waking up from the idea that there is an enlightenment that there is a state that I will attain or get and then waking up from the idea that there is someone who can actually get it. It can go in the reverse order. It would be even better if it goes in the reverse order because if there is nobody there who cares? Whether Union mystical Union bliss ecstasy enlightenment or anything like that exists.

If the one who wants who desires that pleasure for himself or herself if that one is questioned and realized to be just a bundle of thoughts just a belief in entity and that conceptual image that I call me wanting desiring money or enlightenment. Does not matter. There's no difference. If there is me who is desiring something that is not there. That me when is questioned obviously drops off and the desire doesn't really matter if there is still a desire. Well, whatever that is a desire. It's not my desire. It plays up is just a bundle of vibrations or sensations showing up on the screen. So questioning the identity.

This is the way out. And again, it sounds ridiculous. When I say way out because there is no way out the one the one who is to find something or to question something the person cannot get out of itself. It is totally totally fucked it. There is no hope for them for the person but there is an awareness of the person the person. However, whichever way it appears on the screen. Is being known so that principle of knowing the knowingness or the awareness of whatever appears is prior to the appearance. So there is first there is a being and I don't mean prior in in in a I don't mean it as time as something that happened before because there is no before.

It's just this moment right now. It doesn't have any prior moment. If it does. It means that prior moment has actually been imagined into this moment right now. So prior I mean as an illustration of something that is underlying or is a primary cause or it happens. It's just like you have the movie playing on the screen. The prerequisite for the movie to play is the screen. It doesn't mean that the screen appears prior if they appear they appear simultaneously, but the screen is. Somehow primary to the. To the appearance the same way if there is an individual or the ego or personal self playing out there is an awareness of that that awareness is a screen awareness knowingness is a screen awareness is not a thing.

It doesn't exist as an object. It cannot be found by the mind because it is the knowingness cognizing. Emptiness. It is the principle of knowing like everything that ever appears to to every one of us is somehow cognized is known like the seeing is known the being is known the whatever the each other or objects in the room. They are known but there is the principle of knowing the knowingness the sensations that are also known if they're not known. They out of the awareness. They don't really appear. So the knowing is actually. Is identical with being if something has the being it is being known.

That's why they call it such cheat Ananda. It is being and known. It has the existence which is already known and now the bliss comes into the picture Ananda sat is consciousness sat is being the cheat is knowing. And Ananda is bliss or joy or happiness or loving to be so that bliss is not complete illusion. It is illusion as a thing to be attained but it's not complete illusion when the awareness of being comes to the foreground and it is completely an obscured by any of the stories when the awareness of being is the only thing there is it is absolutely blissful. But because you can't.

Actually hold it unless you I don't know in a deep meditation. It's not even worthy of holding it because that's not the point the whole manifestation shown up and is playing out for the love and appreciation of the other of experiencing itself as the other because there is no other way to wake up if you don't dream to be the other first. But the bliss of being such it Ananda the existence of myself. As much as existence of everything else and the awareness of that existence is the natural state. So we all know that we exist. We all are aware of the existence and this is home.

This is the place that we start. From here. We can actually realize what obscures it. Okay, there is existence of being but there's so many other things, you know, there's so many other important things like making money or looking after the health or relationship. Yeah, sure. They are they relatively. Important things playing out on the screen. But if the awareness of being is completely forgotten, this thoughts will steal the show and it will take us for a ride and because they dualistic there will be always pain in it. Even if they are the most beautiful pleasurable stories going on the wonderful relationship the great money.

Now this will have the other the flip side of the coin because it is here now. But what the guarantee is that? It will be here tomorrow. There's no one so there will be fear with every joy will be fear with every pleasure. There will be pain. So basically if we go to conceptualizing to the world made of concept stories and thoughts in the head awareness of being is completely. Unnoticed or is not being acknowledged this place that is actually here now always and for granted and forever this place that is like home that is more intimate than. Any of the stories could ever be because stories are all belief based, you know, my identity my story my relationships my jobs.

They're all. Based in language. So they are really all just stories just beliefs while the consciousness of my own existence is not is completely apart from anything that I've ever learned. It is not something that I acquired. From some other people. It is not something I've been told. This is my direct experience and this is my only direct experience because everything else is brainwashed. Everything else is being learned and acquired. So this direct experience is the starting point and this is the end point. Also, this is what I'm starting the investigation to see. This is the this is the base or source of everything and that source can be nothing.

Can be known directly and it is known directly right now and it is known directly always. At any point when you ask yourself whether you exist you say yeah, sure I do. Are you aware of that existence? Of course and that's it. This is the this is the base. This is the source now that awareness doesn't really abide there in the existence. I mean the attention doesn't stay with. The awareness of existence attention is attracted to the dream to the illusion to all the manifestation and that's okay. But it's much much easier if that movement of attention is also acknowledged or is being known is being witnessed.

It's wonderful to see actually this is the pattern that was shaped and formed by by the by the life by that intelligence or that awareness. And this pattern has certain preferences. It has certain. Attractions it is attracted to smell of the roses and not smell of the farts, whatever and it has and and I don't really know it that well. Now if that one is moving spontaneously moving around the life and that movement and that patterns personality patterns likes dislikes attractions repulsions are being cognized are being known. Now this is totally impersonal. Now I am the awareness and whatever the body is doing the body is doing and I'm looking at it with curiosity just like just like watching a good movie.

And if something happens to this pattern of personality, somebody slaps it in the face or somebody abuses it or whatever is still impersonal. It doesn't mean there won't be a response which would be defensive. Of course, you know animals defend their own bodies. Also, that's the instinct that is that is actually already ingrained in the in the whole pattern, but it it can also be cognized. It can also be watched with the curiosity as the impersonal happening and and it's quite fascinating to be able to view the world from that impersonal perspective perspective that is not engaged and is not filtered and is not biased.

By. Self-obsession by that. It is all about me that I'm the important one and everything is about my story how people look at me what people think of me and what is going to happen to me because this is just one of the of the appearances and to getting to know this pattern from the perspective, which is not self-obsessed and not personal. Is great fun and apart from that. Is free from suffering. And apart from that it gives. It brings the the life back to itself. It it expands and it has this this spaciousness to it. It has this deep breath of fresh air to it.

So how to go about it is basically to look what I think myself to be. What? What do I think I am? And if you have any ideas or you have any any concepts of what you think you are, please tell us what could you possibly be if you think you are a thing you if you think you are an object or if you think you are a body or the mind or a person. What is it like? Looking really deeply into it. What is that me? And see what what that not only what is it? But how do I know it? Who told me that?

How did I end up with that realization of that conclusion that this is what the me is because by doing it by analyzing this idea of me you are already the awareness of it. You already viewing it as a as a content in the awareness. So looking at it. It seems like yeah, but this is another way of being self-obsessed. Why all about me? Yeah, but this me is not who is looking anymore. The one who is looking is interested in something that appears on the screen. So even though it seems like I'm looking at me, I'm not really looking at me. I'm looking at the content of awareness.

And Yeah, and that's what is called. Investigation and that's what is called the inquiry self-inquiry. The famous question. Who am I or what am I or where am I or any other versions of it? Those questions are actually memes that kill all the other memes. Those questions are the questions that can that can kill all the other questions like they can reveal the absence of questionnaire. They can reveal that the one who is actually looking. Is the one that is looking for I mean looking for the self the process of looking the the movement of attention turning back on itself. It collapses the duality. I put it on you now.

Just a whole little bit. Okay. Thanks for that cat covered everything just about. It's talking about. Eternal or eternity. Have we ever questioned that and really looked into it? Eternity, which most of us taken on the belief of is some time bound thing. A million light years or a thousand light years or something like that. Realize eternity has no beginning. And no end. It's spontaneous. If it had some beginning and an end. He could say that everything began. It's all this. Spontaneous. Moment. Eternity. And that's what's in Francis told you. He says it's only by dying. I can have eternal life and says it in the St.

Francis prayer. He wasn't talking about carton at dying to that physical body online but going to the nail. Going to that sense of presence. When you're not put any concept of time or any beginning or the end. That's beginningless. An endless. And have a look at that question yourself and say you began it anywhere at any particular. Time. We believe we were born taken on that idea. We believe we're separate. And we've grown into the fact. Well, it's taken to be a fact that we are something separate from the part. Because you didn't know anything about it when you were born while you're in the womb and one room and when you were grown for the first company.

Until we learned words. And then everybody around us is reinforcing that we took on that belief and reinforce that belief himself purely and simply wasn't question. Until something in that make up the cognizing emptiness or the emptiness is cognizing the formless that is forming. Started to recognize. There was something beyond the pattern shapes and forms that couldn't be grasped with the concept, but it couldn't be negated either. And the renewal of realization came about that. There's no person that's going to realize become anything at all. Because the person itself is not reality. From a persona, the conceptual image we've taken on. Just a little bit of questioning and looking at that to see for yourself.

And nobody here or anywhere else. What have you been told? And what have you believe is going to do it for you might hear the pointers and it might resonate with you and teach you to look or not to you but make the resonance. You can't say you do anything will be the look and see for yourself. In the. Recognition, recognizing what has already been cognized because you've had taste of it all throughout your life. You might know why did that happen? Or how did that happen? Your question and recognizing will start to confirm. There's omnipotence, omnipotence, omnipresence and omniscience. Total presence, total power and total intelligence.

Not three aspects of the one like that was pointing out before. Just like steam, water and ice. Three aspects of H2O. Three aspects of the one. And when you look into some of the ancient texts and scripts have been put out there. It is only that non dual one without a second. Not two. One without a second. Even one without a second implies that they could be other than one. I'll ask yourself is there? Is there any anything other than one? There seems to be me. There seems to be other than me. Aren't they concepts? Words that are picked up along the way? Have you looked at that and investigated?

Who is the me for a start of? What is the me? Can you find a center to that that you can say this is reality? Just take a little bit of investigational looking. See there is nothing other than this presence awareness. This omnipotence, the total power, the omnipresence, the total presence. Total. Not past, future. Not present. Not thought power, mind power or this power or that power. Total. An omniscience. Isn't, look at this manifestation. Omniscience is intelligence. Isn't it the same intelligence that is forming galaxies? Moving planets around the sun. Causing thoughts to come and go. Feelings to come and go. Earth to move around the sun.

How many powers are there that are doing that? You know that will be Rhodes Scholar to work out. It's only the one essence of doing everything. So can the believed in you be anything other than that? So in recognizing that you're going to drop the you or the me. And take your stance in the totality. Which has always been happening but seemingly missed because of the conceptualizing. And they tell you that the great perfection is non-conceptual awareness. And the sagada tells you the person is not reality. Simple statements. Look into them. Question them. And see that they're right. And there's nothing outside this presence awareness.

And emptiness is form. Isn't that statement right? Because all those patterns, shapes and forms appearing on that background of stillness and silence. The emptiness. So the forms can be nothing other than the emptiness. And when it says Satyajit Ananda Namah Rupa. I am that. The concept I am is that presence awareness. Isn't it? And that non-conceptual awareness. So we've mouthed those words. But seeing that you are that. You've always been that. Can be nothing other than that. You're going to continue to question. Try and find the answer in the mind. When you're told the answer is not in the mind. And it's not this pattern, shape and form that's telling you that.

Because this pattern, shape and form knows it never was, never will be or never could be. And it's talking to other seeming pattern shapes. The words are coming out of the mouth. And I know the other pattern shapes. And forms are the same essence that this is. We say there is no one ended stick. Each stick's got two ended to it. There's no one sided coin. Each coin got two sides to it. With heads and tails. Which side do you want to be? Simple statements. But when looked into and registered. They're seen for what they are. And this cat asked you. And I will say.

You've all had glimpses of this. You all have. Different understandings of it. What has been recognised up to this stage. And what hasn't been recognised. So don't hesitate to put it out there. Or if there are any doubts, concepts and ideas. Put it out there to questions. Because as I say. Nobody's going to do it for you. Nobody's going to give it to you. But in recognising. Looking at it as yourself. Questioning yourself. And if you can't answer the question yourself. See if some other pattern, shape and form. Can deliver. The answer that will resonate with you. And open that questioning up. So there it is.

And if you haven't got the confidence. To speak and ask questions. What are you fearing? What are you ashamed of? What are you unhappy about? What is the lack of confidence there? To say me I can't say this. I can't think that. Have the concept. The confidence to be what you are. And let that confidence grow. And it will grow. If it's not. Confined. To the conceptual images. Pattern, shapes and forms. The dead images at that. They're all based on past. Conditioning and experiences. What image is there in the presence. If you're not conceptualised. No becoming. No wasing. Or no will-being. Just as obvious. As the past.

As the present. As the present. As the present. As the present. As the present. As the present. As the present. As the present. As the present. As the present. As the present. As the present. As the present. Presence. Presence. Before any conceptual concepts about that presence are seemingly born on it. The unborn Buddha mind as they call it. Why exchange the unborn for thought? Yeah, so what image is there if you're not conceptualising. He just said it. Yeah. Yeah. You have a look. What image is there if you're not conceptualising. What are you? What are you without the concept? Without the concept do you even have shape?

Do you even have like you're looking ahead. Do you even have legs? Do you even have feet? If you don't take a concept which is mental image or thought. Do you even have the body that is small or big or white or black if you don't have concept? Yeah. You are not the body but you don't even have it. You don't even use it without the concept without the mental image. Do you have the self or do you have anything at all? Do you have nationality if you don't take up the concept? Do you have sex male or female or whatever if you don't take mental image?

And see all those concepts they come up through conditioning. We were taught. We were brainwashed. We were. We basically acquired them trusted someone who who told us this and we never questioned. So the non conceptual awareness the true nature the natural state the Buddha nature or the big mind or the whatever they call it is there for taking. If you for a moment just for the experiment. Move away the concepts and the mental images. So the taste of it is there in the absence of disturbance. Then of course the mind will show up again and that's okay. But this moment when Bob is asking what's wrong with right now if I don't think about it.

You know there's nothing wrong. You've checked it. There's absolutely nothing ever wrong unless the thought will come and say it is wrong. Not even when we are unwell. Sick puking whatever. If there is no idea that we shouldn't be doing or being or experiencing what is there. There's no problem. There's nothing wrong. But it's not only there is nothing wrong without the concept. There's nothing there without the concept. There's nothing here without the concept. Even the world as I see it is senses operated by the mind interpreted by the mind. So it is all conceptual the world that we experience is the conceptual world. Doesn't mean that you know animals are conceptualizing to certain extent.

They have computers there in the head as well that let them learn certain things and use the memory. And that's a wonderful thing to do. But for the sake of the experiment moving away concepts for just a moment mental images and ideas. And experiencing the truth of existence. Without the destruction that attracts attention elsewhere. And the attention is spent in chasing thoughts images or whatever. Experiencing non-destructed non-meditation or unfixated awareness. Awareness that is not fixated to any of the senses. Particularly to thinking. Experiencing the aliveness the existence the pure awareness of being. Just for a moment. Because later on of course the stories will come up and let them come.

Because when this one is fully embraced that yes alright. The awareness of being the pure existence is the screen. Then whatever appears on it it's not that important anymore. It's just a passing phenomena. Something that comes and goes. Experience of the body comes and goes. Experience of the emotions come and go. Experience of stories or problems or ideas. They come and go. So they're not ultimate truth. They're just passing phenomena. And I can stay and live from that groundedness of the sense of existence. The pure awareness of being. And enjoy passing phenomena. Enjoy them. Don't give them 100% of attention. Give them 90. At times.

Or zero at times. Just let them pass as clouds. And of course I'm not doing any of it. Certain persistent ideas. Like everybody is conditioned to resonate with particular ideas. Most of the bodies are before the investigations are conditioned to resonate with the ideas of inferiority. Insecurity and unworthiness. Unlovability. So those ideas are very kind of. They feel very personal and they feel very familiar. But even after investigations there will be ideas that are persistent. And they will be stealing the show. And there's nobody there to actually own it. Or not own it. Like certain patterns. Smoking cigarettes in Nisargadatta. Certain patterns. And certain patterns of the language.

Of vocabulary. Certain attractions and repulsions to different things. But when all those patterns are just appearance on the screen. The suffering is gone. So that's the investigation. To actually realize that whatever is appearing on the screen is just appearance. To realize that thinking is thinking. Emotions are emotions. Stories are stories. And I am the screen. I am the awareness of being. I am unaffected by anything that appears. Like you have the screen. And there is a shooting or bombing happening on the screen. Screen is not going to be touched. It's not damaged by it. So abiding in a state of awareness of being that screen.

Is the ultimate freedom from the story. From which stories can still be enjoyed. Did you want to? I'll hold it. Yeah, hold it. You'll put it down. Yeah. I forgot what she was going to say but anyway. Everybody here, as I say, have got the chance to speak up right now. When the meeting closes or when you go away, all the chatter in the world will come up then. Why don't you bring it out right now? And it will strengthen it within you. I was bringing it out with somebody that might dare to pull you apart or not or whatever. Nisargadatta used to put me out the front.

In front of all these people. And punish the shit out of me. When I'd come up with some beautiful answers, which I'd picked up from different programs and all the rest of it. I'd realise the truth is that wasn't good enough. No matter how profound or deep it was, it still wasn't good enough. Kicked it all out and left me without any concepts whatsoever. Kicked everyone out. Now I thought every concept, and I thought it was a bad thing. It proved out to be the best thing in the lot. Because I can't get away from the fact now that I am no thing. And all of you patterns, I know that you are.

Even though I won't question you or argue with you or tell you this or that. You are no thing also. Because it is the no thing that's patterning, shaping and forming as everything. No doubt. If you've got anything to say or anything to do, bring it out where you can. You've got people following to hear you. Instead of arguing amongst yourselves or putting on something, another idea. Or got any doubts or fears or any anxiety or stress at all to stop you from seeing it. Don't hesitate to bring it out. And some of you might simply be very profound and know a lot more than what you realise.

That's a good idea. Just tell us what you understand. Anything. I don't know. Yeah. That's a good beginning. I don't know actually. But something's there. Something's resonating. Something's moving. Even if I don't know. Start from that. Yeah, I think that maybe there's beliefs that you don't know you have. Beliefs that you don't know you have. Watching something I usually... Stephen Wolinsky. Yeah, Stephen Wolinsky. He said... He said he was with someone who... How did you talk? He was with one of his teachers and this thought come up about himself. And it was so horrible I didn't want to say it. But it was like the thought that come up was like, I'm sorry, I am.

And that he... It was like his teacher took it away from him. And then when he said that, this overwhelming like rush come over me. Where I was like... I had such a reaction to it. And I was like, I think I believe that. It was really like something I didn't know that I thought. Mm. But what was that... Wasn't it a resonation with what was being said? Something inside you? Yeah, I just got super emotional. And I was like, wow. Like it... My heart started racing and I couldn't talk properly. And I was like, that's really horrible thought. But I didn't even know I thought that.

Mm. So it's a really like strange reaction. And then you were talking and I just got... A reaction again. It moved you out of your comfort zone. Yeah. Into the unknown. Yeah. Because I think I realized something yesterday. I was walking home from Coles and I was... Caught myself in a thought. And I was actually having a conversation with school teacher. Because I'm... And I was explaining myself to her. I was like, oh, I'm sorry, this and like you have to do this. And I was almost different. And I was almost defending myself in this pretend conversation I was having. That some future pretend conversation.

So like I'm constantly... I've noticed that like four or five times since then. Like I'm constantly justifying myself in my thoughts. But they're like real scenarios. But they're not happening. Mm-hmm. So I spent all this time justifying my existence. Mm-hmm. To people that I'm not even having the conversation with. Yeah. Yeah. So, yeah. You don't have to justify anything because of it. That's just strange. So I put it out there. So it's like, okay, they've said it. So like... Everybody does it unless they stop. Because innately down in your heart, you know you are completely innocent in everything you do because you are not the doer.

So if anyone is actually... Is telling you that you are doing something wrong or you should apologize for your existence, you should be sorry you exist, you should be... Yeah. You should be... Yeah. You should be... Yeah. You should be... Yeah. You should be... Yeah. You should be... Yeah. You should be... Yeah. You should be... Yeah. You should be... Yeah. You should be... Yeah. You should be... Yeah. You should be... Yeah. You should be... Yeah. You should be... Yeah. You should be... Yeah. You should be... Yeah. You should be... Yeah. You should be... Yeah. You should be... Yeah. You should be... Yeah. You should be...

Yeah. You should be... Yeah. You should be... Yeah. Yeah. When I was meditating a couple of weeks ago, I had this raw emotion come up where crying, but it was like this gut like, ugh, like crying almost. I don't know how to explain it, but it was like it felt painful, but it didn't feel painful because there was no story at all. It was just like this movement of, and I was like, I recognised the feeling, but because I didn't have a story to attach to it, it was just like, oh, that's like, something's come up. Amazing. I just felt like energetic, and I was like, oh, purged it, and then I was like, whatever that was, I don't even want to know.

Don't even try to make a story about it. It felt like bad, but it wasn't bad. So that story that you picked up on, that you caught in... Oh yeah. You caught yourself defending yourself against, I think you said teacher? Oh, it's just like explaining why I need to be like, yeah. Fine. Explain myself. I'm very used to running that same thing. Fine. Yeah. I do the same thing. I never knew I did it. Ever. I've never ever realised that until... Not being hurt. Look, I find, it's like I'm rehearsing what to say. Yeah, I was rehearsing it. That's what you're doing. You're rehearsing what to say.

I was rehearsing it. I was feeling the emotion of what they, in my head, I was feeling the emotion of what they were saying. I was feeling what they, in my head, the reaction they're going to have. And then by the time I have the conversation with them, if they react the way I've been rehearsing and I've been defending against, then I'm like, I can't believe I have to explain this again. But the important... But I've never even said it to them. Yeah. The important thing is there's something that's been revealed. Yeah. Take it from there. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It's good to know, isn't it?

Yeah. Because almost everyone does it almost all the time. And people are not aware that they have it. Yeah. They're not aware that they have this inner dialogue in their head. Yeah. Yeah. Now at least you know, so you can see it more often. And don't punish yourself for it. Enjoy it. Yeah. I'm trying not to say it. Like, I'm not trying to repress the thought. Yeah. I'm just like, I think as soon as I notice it, it stops anyway. I'm like, oh. That's exactly right. And I'm just like... You just say it more and... Attention goes out of it. Yeah. Just do it. Like three times today, I noticed it.

And I was like, wow, that's interesting. Mm-hmm. We'll lose this. Yeah. Okay. Look. What everyone has said here is that it's not a good thing. Yeah. Yeah. Now, why you're suffering in relation to that dialogue that goes on between you and the teacher for argument's sake. Okay. And you see it and you kind of... And it might even be interpreted as... Like that dialogue might be interpreted as... Yeah. ...a kind of, you know, I really need to think this through so that I can take a stand. Yeah. So I can really hold my ground and defend myself. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. So the reason that there's suffering whilst that dialogue is taking place is because that entity that's there, okay, and I'm going to call that you, that me, okay, that entity that is there, or seemingly there, let's get accurate, okay?

Yes. And it is seeming Sylllais. Syllильно, but there's still a dialogue that's seemingly there that is in communication with this teacher is not even present anymore, but still there's a dialogue that's going on, yeah? Yeah. Yeah. That entity that is there that is in dialogue with that teacher is nothing but thoughts. Yeah. Now, this has ... Now, look, you're going to have to hear ... I don't know how many times you'll have to hear it. That's fine. it a lot of times god i've got to stop swearing i had to hear it a lot of times before it really started to dawn on me but i had to hear it time and time and time again i had to hear that you know now here's what's been pointed out here whilst that was going on for you whilst that was going on yeah you were aware of it you were aware you could hear your dialogue that was going on whatever whatever it was doing whatever stand it was taking against a so-called teacher yeah you were you could hear it you were aware of it do you understand that like fully aware of it okay the problem is instead of abiding in that awareness that is aware of it we abide in the character that we're hearing the me character that's going on in the head and as a result of that you suffer because it's that whatever that me character is saying it you take it on and manifest in the body and it'll and and and it'll be experienced as a feeling it's an energy but then we name the bloody thing which makes it worse okay so what even that that character that you character that that you believe is you and you totally do please don't tell me you don't because i know you do because you're suffering as a result of it yeah that dreamed character that that that character that comes up is completely and i and i mean this purely okay absolutely okay that that dreamed character that that comes up is completely 100 impersonal it has absolutely nothing to do with you it is not you it is not you saying this stuff it's not you but we as cat started this group beautifully yeah we believe it's me and it's just a freaking belief the whole idea about coming here is to really truly investigate really investigate and look past all our belief systems okay and and every person sitting in this room that still feels like they're stuck in that me presence or that self-identity it's only because you believe it it's not an actual fact it's not a fact be like you it'd be like this okay you're asleep at night you're on your bed you're dreaming okay whatever and whatever the dream is okay whatever the dream is and there's you the character in the dream and you're experiencing whatever okay and then you wake up from the dream in the morning and continue on as that character that was in the dream give me a break would you do that no i'm gonna have working up sometimes i'm not i'm not yeah but i know yeah stay with me stay with me would you continue on when you woke up in the morning from that why not because i know it to be a dream yeah it's okay it's okay it's all right there's that character again there's that character right there again it pops up oh i know i should get it i can't get it oh something to say take the definition of belief in your dictionary unquestioned acceptance of something in the absence of reason so if we haven't questioned it or tried to read now acceptance of an alleged fact an alleged fact things we've taken on board without positive knowledge or proof put it to that test and see what police will stand up to and the biggest belief that causes conflict is the belief in the name yeah and that's what bob's that's what bob's been pointing out tonight so clearly and kat's been pointing out and terry's been pointing out that me is just a thought doesn't exist easy to drop because you know you know yeah kind of sure but yeah yeah their belief about things your primary belief you've got a job is that you are yeah everything once you once you recognize that all the other stuff just drops off you don't have to be trying to let go of that belief and let go of that belief and let it go when you've got a belief go that belief i've seen through that belief man who's having the beliefs in the first place who or what is having the beliefs in the first place that needs to be investigated but look i just want to say don't lose heart don't think i'm having a go at you great right because i'm totally not i like it i'm totally not look what happens what happens at the beginning at the re at the very beginning of this um investigation looking for okay what happens is the me your character okay that that you believe yourself to be is so close and it operates so quickly it's just banging it's like there and it's there and it's there and it's thinking this and i am this and you know the feeling will come up and it happens so fast and it's so close that we can't often see it often we just can't see it that's the trap we can't actually see it and it tells me things i don't believe to be like i was walking to school with arthur and this sounds so powerful but i think you guys are doing some of my thoughts um this guy was behind me and this thought come into my head oh i have a new version to older men and i went like i caught that as well and i was like no no like i answered it and i said okay so i'm going to do it again and i was like okay so i'm going to do it again and then i went back and then it goes oh yeah but you do and then i just went off and i kept walking but i was like it was the first that was the first thought i could and i didn't mean to it's just i went that's not true okay so look so i'm like okay that's great so many lies let's see how much you're aware look but the biggest lie is that you had this yeah that i thought look try this on all right Just try it on.

I don't know if you're able to do this. Give it a shot. Just imagine, because you're going to have to imagine, that every single solitary thought, everything that arises in you, even over just the next 30 seconds, let's say, every single solitary thing that arises in you, all of a sudden, changes to Chinese language. Stay with me on that. Completely, and I'm assuming you don't speak Mandarin, right? So it just completely changes to a Chinese, there's just Chinese dialogue going in there. Then where the... Nearly said it again. Then where would you be? Where would you be then? I'm serious when I ask that question.

Only Chinese going on in there. Not even are you there that's still able... To see the Chinese. ...to see the Chinese. To understand that, you know, I speak English, that's Chinese. Otherwise, you'd still be there if there was that going on. I mean, everything that was happening in you was all in Chinese. Then where would you be? What problem would you have? Other than not understanding anything. Like, not understanding... Except the truth of your own existence. Just be an experience from start. Bob wants to say something. What's that? No, you're just taking the meaning out. Taking the meaning out of the words, what are they?

There's just noise, sound, that's just the same as Chinese, you know? What do you know about it? Right, I'm trying to learn. We attribute meaning, we literally attribute meaning to certain sounds. And they're just sounds. When they have your voice, it's very convincing. But that's what I was saying before, but that's what I was trying to say to you before. It's not your voice. Mm. It's not. If it's my voice, then it's what it is. It's not your voice. It's completely... There's nothing. There's no you. It's completely... I'm not saying there's no thoughts. Clearly, there are. But they're completely impersonal. They just arise and then we identify with it and go, that's me.

I'm having that thought, I'm having that judgment about old guys or whatever it was that you said. But it happens so quickly. No offense, Bob. It happened. So look, all I would say, all I would say at this stage is just keep being, try, try. There's no one there to try. However, I'm going to use that terminology anyway. Just at least try to start. Just start. To become aware that your identity, and that all comes up from your thoughts. And then any argument that your identity might be having with another thought, because that's all that's happening, by the way, in your head, you've got two thoughts.

You're talking about your teacher or old guys or whatever. And the other pattern of reality is it's just two patterns of thoughts going at each other. And that's the sneaky one, because even the thought of me going, that's not true, is not me as well. Correct. Right? Correct. So that's the streaky one. Yeah. The one that's not negative. Beautiful. That's what, beautiful. That's what I meant by. It's harder to spot. That's what I meant by it's really close. And it's hard to see it. It's really hard. It's easy to see. Initially, it's easy to see the thoughts that are coming out. Even that, at the beginning, can be hard, because we wear it.

We literally wear it, whatever it is that I'm thinking I am. But if you come here for a while and start to investigate, you start to see that there's a thought process that just happens by itself. Yeah. It's not you there. Yeah, because otherwise you go, oh, that was a negative thought. And you go, I'm so good for picking that up. He is. That's me, right? Yeah. But you know what? But you know what? To start with, that's a lot better than just being it and not even being able to pick it up. Self-help. I don't want self-help. No. I'm not interested in it. I don't care.

Good. I don't even want spirituality, but it bit me in the face. Okay. So it's really just a matter of, and it happens by itself, via being aware of what is actually happening. And the only way you can be aware of what is actually happening is to see it. Then it becomes real. You see it. You know. You know. You know. Otherwise, you're going to just walk. You'll walk out of here with a heap of concepts and beliefs and go, yeah, that was interesting. You know what I mean? Yeah. You kind of need to see it. So from this point forward, as you're moving forward in life, just at least start to become aware of the fact that there is no thinker.

There is no you doing any thinking. And I mean nothing. Zip. Absolutely zip. It just arises. Thoughts just arise. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. A little bit of distance starts to get created. There's still a me here. I don't want you to be fooled by that. There's still a me here. Right? And there's distance being created. created but there's still a me here that's going oh yeah i can say i can see it and this this means that real close one and i'm talking about it's the last one to be seen by the way and it's the hardest but it's the last one to be seen but if you can at least start getting some distance around it that i'm not any of that content of thought that's that's arising in the mind then event like when you because that's really noisy and it's really busy and it's really conceptual and it's full of beliefs all sorts of beliefs when you at least get to the point where you see for yourself all that's impersonal it just comes and goes all of itself okay then there'll still be you'll start to recognize there's still a me here that now knows that now knows that it now it now it now knows that but that me here that's sitting here listen listen that me here that's sitting there okay that in the end goes hmm yeah i see that i'm none of that it's quite empty in terms of any conceptual ideas or beliefs but it still bloody feels like this brings me about what i want to talk about great yeah the difference between what you may call i guess witnessing consciousness which still has a very subtle sense of locality and meanness to it very subtle and pure awareness so ask the question again because i said it was half a comment the difference between that witnessing consciousness and pure awareness basically do you want to tackle that i'm happy to do it there's no such thing as a witness seems to be again like there seems to be a me there's no such thing as the me and tennyson told you she said there's a terrorist telling you it's very close he says it's closer than your breathing nearer than your hands and feet it's the closest it's prior to that believed in me even you know and what whitman tells you these are just ordinary people tell you i'm not contained between my hat and my boots there is no center anywhere they contribute this as me so if you if you experience witness and you think there is something separate as a witness it means there is a subtle belief there so that belief also you can always very easily actually discover or discard the witness if you ask how is the witness known who is knowing about the witness and then you know oh actually actually located by the witness it's very easy to tell you you don't have to know because you could even be the witness you can actually tell the witness the witness never make it hard to make it neat and consider the witness as the witness so i think that you know if you asked the question this can be answered in a long way think about what you know what you know how to do if you ask the question is what you know how to do location locating it where is the witness looking from if the witness is looking from my shoulder or somewhere and then how how do i know it is in my shoulder where am i looking from am i looking from maybe behind or in front yes everything is known there's another step back which is kind of sensed for lack of a better word yeah and that's that that's that real real really really super close subtle me that's still there and it needs to be and it's got to be owned you've got to own it you've got to get honest and go yep um you know regardless of what what spews out of my mouth and in terms of how flowery i can talk about non-duality the reality is really if i get real honest and i don't want to get honest you know i'm not going to be honest with you because you know i got this big front going on right it's true i went through that i totally went through that i know yeah um you've got to look and i keep saying this you've got to be deadly honest like really really honest you know it was driving me nuts here at the beginning of this meeting because bob on two two occasions said if anyone's got any questions and everyone kind of just sits in i wanted to stand up and jump up and down in the middle of the room go fuck's sake wake up and ask some questions for real like get like get real get get get honest you don't have any just comes and goes then if you don't great like great if you don't awesome but i'll bet there's some in the room that have got questions and it was verified they were asked but what works for me for that one essentially for me u Kalau That was a what's here of if i'm not thinking about it and in the big headiamo you are aware that was uh what's here of if i'm not thinking about it and in the big headiamo another question is there a location here and then that's when that I think yeah it's just turning around and looking for that point that thinks it's there kind of thing like that sense of a point I need to turn around and why did I sort of stop before that happens it's a curiosity thing but for me it was like when that notion of a location it like passion went there was just like the sensations and nothing's going on and it's like that didn't come in and there's a perspective this must be looked from that it didn't get to that point so just jumps over and first there was a point that I thought that was a point that I was looking for and then I was probably relocation and what about location and then that was just when I had my and then it comes in and I had a big falling away and when my personal self did completely fall away there was no location or anything then it was complete and then over time you know mine kind of reconstructed itself again a much nicer mine but it's still there nevertheless and so now I've come in this place where it's kind of like there's this other dimension of being that's opened up this more like spacious silent but I still know that isn't it either because it's a kind of a dualistic thing between like his thought me and here's this silent space but there's a seeming separateness there but yeah anybody find a static point anyway so we mean it's a subtle thing to say it's the last thing to go and that's it.

I think what you said about I'm not contained between my hat and my boots that was just so profound. No that says it all. There's really no location isn't it? And also when you were saying that you are actually aware of that space playing out and personality playing out you are the awareness of both of them so you are awareness of the duality. Yeah exactly. What I've noticed too is that for me personally is there's two types of questions I find when I'm at these meetings and there's the question that I want to ask. And I'll think about it and people will be talking and I'll be waiting for the silence where I can ask that question.

But usually it's a superficial question it's not really something that important. And then there's a second type of question where I'll just come out with something it will be very deep question and I think to myself where did that come from? And that's something I didn't really never actually never entered my consciousness to actually ask that. It's just spontaneous looking. Yeah. And it actually meant something. You might start with a superficial one. Yeah that's so important to get all the superficial stuff out. Anything like anything and that's what I meant by being honest. It can be difficult to do that. Another aspect is that a lot of people here are paralyzed by shyness and fear.

I was like this. And I was grateful for anyone. I was grateful for anyone who would ask superficial no matter how idiotic question because that was my question too. So you may come up with the superficial question and be at service a great service to someone. Also people who are watching us from Europe. Yeah. Because I find when you're at that superficial you become self-conscious of this body and who you think you are. Whereas when the natural question comes out there's no self-consciousness there's no self-share. Yeah. And you think to yourself because if Bob said. You don't take credit for it. Yeah. And how you say did you did you are you the author of the thought and you can you can also say no because I just don't know where it came from.

Exactly. So recognize that and try and relax back into that part of it. That's what it's like. Yeah. It's just real recognition of the spontaneous. And if that self-conscious state arises bear it. Bear it. Like really bear it. Bear it. Totally bear it. Be out there with it. I have no choice. No you do. Yes. You do. Well you do actually. You can kind of go. No. No. I can't. I can't go there. But he doesn't because it just comes out. Sure. Sometimes. That's what he's saying though. It's the spontaneous one. Bob. Yeah. It's not got that aspect. Sure. But there's. Yeah. But you've got two examples.

Yeah. One is that and one is that. Yeah. The one that gets scared and wants to withhold. Yeah. That's the one that you need to bring out into the light. Well I'll ask him that. Yeah. And look. Just one. And I'll shut up in a second. It's pouring out of me at the moment. That experience that you had. Okay. And your current direct experience living here right now sitting in that chair. Okay. And I don't doubt for a second that you would acknowledge that there's even though I've had this experience and I see this and I. Yeah. And I understand that there kind of still feels like an entity here.

That's definitely. Okay. All right. So that that you're currently experiencing experiencing in terms of that entity that you're experiencing sitting in that chair right now. Okay. That entity that you're experiencing now how different is that entity or your awareness of it. Yeah. Or the flavor of it. Yeah. In terms of the way it's being perceived. Well in a way it's being perceived. And I think that's good. I think it's it's a good definition of yourself. I think it is good because you say if as if you're not a human being then you're just a human being. Yeah. And I have the fact that from my own experience if you're not a human being it's no longer the case after all.

You've been living in that space for more than a decade. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Thank you. Yeah. Great. Great job. Thank you. Yeah. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Yeah. Thank you. Thank you. Yeah. because you've had a few experiences and a few insights. So sitting there in that chair now, what's the difference now? What is it? Honestly, like honestly, honestly. I'm not sure what you're pointing at as far as the difference in what part of life. Okay, all right. Look, from what you're describing, from what you've been describing, it sounds like you're at a point that, I know there's no points, but you're in a place and there's no places either.

We won't be led by the place. I'm just having fun at the moment. It sounds to me like you're quite close to that point that I was talking about before, where that I've seen a lot, I've seen a lot, but there's kind of still this. Me here. And it's really, really quite close. Would that be fair to say? Yeah. Okay. So let me ask you another question. And I don't want you to answer this from what you've learned from either being around here or being involved in any non-duality stuff or any spirituality stuff. Okay? Just want you to answer it honestly. Right? Does that sense of me feel real and here?

Yes or no? The beingness. The beingness aspect of it does. Right. Not the mental, not emotional. Stop. Yeah, yeah. Stop. Look. Gotcha. It's a yes or no answer. It really is. It's a yes, it does. Or no, no, no, it's not here. Right? Yeah. Okay. Why do you think, why do you think it feels so real? Why do you, why does it feel so real? Because it is. Because it is.