Non duality Sailor Bob - Home - 30 09 18

Happy to say a few words to start with? Oh, not really. You've all heard what I've got to say many, many times. It's there in its simplicity. We've taken on board and recognised instead of... We all dive off into different tangents and go into all sorts of stories. Keep it simple. Nothing's ever happened. No creator, no creation, no creature. It's all no thing. The only thing that differentiates it is the labels or words. We find that. As you look at the word and see the word's not the real and what words were you born with? They tell you it's thatchit and ander, it's existence, consciousness, bliss, being, knowing, loving, to be.

And the other two factors are nama, rupa, name and form. They're both labels. Name. Name. And form. Both words. But when you investigate the word, you'll see the word's not the real. It's all something we've picked up and learnt along the way. Not denying or negating the manifestation. Everything is as it is and always will be. The pattern, shapes and forms in which it appears will still appear to be so. But knowing the truth about them, that's what they are. Phenomena. Phenomenal manifestation. And the definition of phenomena is that which appears to be. It's only seemingly so, like the water in a mirage. Appears to be water.

A rainbow seems to be real in the sky. The ocean seems to be blue. The earth seems to be flat when you look at it from the other side. Investigating all those things, you see it's not so. When you investigate yourself along the same lines, you'll realise the old scripture was saying, know the truth, the truth will set you free. What are you free from? You must be free from the belief that you can be anything other than that. You've always and ever been that. And even in the words, the labels we've learnt, that, we know that everything is that. That's the chair, that's the carpet, that's you, that's me.

The differentiation in the that-ness is the labels and words we put on. And you recognise the word's not the real. How can you utilise words or words will be utilised? There's no you to utilise them. There's nothing to get. There's one essence appearing and expressing as everything. And you can only be that. No separation. All those things they've got into that. And they call it non-duality and non-duality. And people get locked up in this non-duality idea. But can there be one without the other? Can there be duality without non-duality? Can there be non-duality without duality? And are they ever separate? Or it's like we say that two ends of the one stick.

The stick's got two ends to it. One end and the thick end or a bad end and a good end. They're still the same stick. So everything in this manifestation, and that's all the manifestation is made up of, are things. You and I are things. We put the label on the thing. And differentiate. Everything in this manifestation is no thing. Because the base it appears on is the silence and stillness, the emptiness. And that silence and stillness they call Brahman, Shiva, all the different names of God they've got on them, Buddha, Jesus. They're just labels we put on the name of the thing. To give it some seeming existence.

There's nothing simpler than this. Get into the stories if you want and what you continue to do. Which you probably will. I dig into stories sometimes. But they cannot be believed in anymore. And that's all I've got to say. You can take it and it might chip in with something else later, right? Okay. Thanks. So Bob just said I go into the stories sometimes. That is what it is. How it is. So how come? You know, 42 years and still story comes up. And the idea that I go to the story. Of course there's no I that goes there. It's just a story appearing on the screen.

And now if that story is related to the me, this is my story. Now I will want to modify that story. Change that story. Do something about that story. That might be a story about resistance. That might be a story about being let down or being criticized or being judged or bullied or whatever. So if this is my story, there will be involvement in it. But if this is just a story showing up and you don't do anything about it, you don't touch it, you can just see how it changes. It's pretty amazing how everything just changes. Whatever happens. Like I had a little story.

It was a couple of days ago. One of Bob's friends told me that Bob was complaining about me behind my back. What a story. Oh my God. You know, one person, one dear friend that I was supposed to be loyal, tell me things, not his friends. But I didn't touch it. I didn't even discuss it. I confronted it on him, but he didn't want to talk about it, didn't want to go there. Stop thinking. Okay, fine. I'll let it be. And that story, I could actually see how it changes. I mean, when you see the story for what it is, just a story, it's amazing.

It's amazing how it actually changes. In a while, that wasn't a story of him letting me down or being loyal to someone else rather than to me. It was a story about whatever, a spontaneous outburst of reflection that came out in the presence of a good friend that had absolutely nothing to do with me. And I'm totally happy for him to have this relationship. Apart from that, oh, yeah, yeah, what was it about? Perhaps there is some just nice, valuable feedback, some blind spots that I'm completely unaware of, and maybe there is something that I could get inspired and get enlightened to. And lo and behold, yes, I did listen to the feedback, and yeah, I do agree with it.

Yeah, my gosh, this is a pattern, you know. I may not want to see it. It's not a nice one, but there is there. It's there. So he's been complaining. And the story was amazing. It was there. Now it's just a reflection of the transformation and the change and the flow of the energy. And there is no need to actually make a story over the story. But it's just to recognize when you leave things unaltered, unmodified, uncorrected, they move on by themselves. Nothing needs resolving. Nothing needs chewing on. Nothing needs analyzed, overanalyzed. It's just the appearance on the screen. Now if you don't take ownership of that appearance, just see it changing.

Well, you want to say something? Just a little bit, going back to the story. You look at the old fables and legends of the old times, they're all made up stories, and they all begin with once upon a time. And any story you or I or anybody else has got does the same. It begins with one at a time. Well, what would you do then? Investigate time. Have a look. Is there such a thing as time? Is there such a thing as a past or a future? Go back and try and live in the past. Go forward and try and imagine what, live in the future.

You can't. It was all spontaneous. Yeah, and this was Bob's advice. Whenever any situation happened, well, what's wrong with right now if you don't think about it? It's gone. You're past. It's not there anymore. Why bother? And then if it is to turn around in some ways, it will reappear on the screen. It will reappear from someone else or as inspiration, and the dance will go on. So dropping or leaving everything as it is or letting go or dropping it or investigating what's wrong if I don't think about it, those are all little hints how it is to be without self, be without center. If there is nobody there, who would own it?

If there is nobody there, who would change it? Who would investigate it or who would chew on it? So this is how the life looks like if there is nobody home. So if you want to do anything about anything and you want to see how it is done when there is nobody home, just act as no one. Do nothing. Leave it unaltered, unmodified, uncorrected. Just sit with it and watch it as something that is just an appearance on the screen. Something that doesn't appear to you, as you, for you, nothing to do with anyone or anything, any you. That's when the life becomes light. That's when you don't take ownership for whatever, for any story.

That's where you are invulnerable. And it doesn't mean that everybody will love you right away or that this particular pattern will resonate and everyone will come into it. Of course, if you are a dog, you keep barking and cats won't like you. I mean, so what? But even though they don't like you or even though you don't like them, you may actually see them. 00.01.20 00.02.20 that you totally love them. You don't like them, but you love them. If you see someone who is very judgmental of you and you don't really ... of course, you know, nobody wants to be slap in the face or beaten by the dog, why?

Of course not. But when you see this pattern of the offender as someone who is the whole universe that's shaped into this strategies of behaviors and is totally doing their best and is totally doing it out of the every prior moment of conditioning and it has absolutely no choice to do anything else at given moment it's not a doer of it really that's the dance of the universe then you may not like the interaction but you totally appreciate the the collective appearance of that pattern you totally love the pattern even though there is you know there is no resonance so it is almost as if you could appreciate the beauty the depth and the complexity even of the popular history figures that are in that in current current historical mood are not appreciated like Lenin or whoever you know they there were times that they were heroes and then they were villains and then they were heroes again you know and then they were heroes again and then they were villains and then they were heroes again so depending on the on the social mood you can see the complexity of absolutely every appearance and you can understand that this is also that that one essence so the infinite beauty and the infinite depth and absolute miraculousness of every single thing is there is almost as if the universe is holographic so everything contains that basic code of the infinite internal intelligence everything is that infinite intelligence like Bob says the one of the emptiness patterning shaping and forming as everything vibrating into everything every form no matter how simple like a sound or how complex as a person or an event or a war you don't know that all kinda of units of that intelligence appearing vibrating the emptiness vibrating into the form so what stands in the way of actually seeing that everything us that brilliant that intelligence and of course that's the judgment that's their personal opinion evaluation if I don't like that person I think of them I think they are not worthy and if I don't like that person but I can still see that oh my god that person is not doing anything about the capacity of seeing that person had the childhood full of events that created her or him the way he is so knowing that they are also that the surface layer of like dislike I don't like beef I like whatever carrots doesn't really matter doesn't stand in the way of recognizing the the amazing intelligence in everything that that shows up on the screen and it doesn't mean that we have to make ourselves do that it is obvious when it's seen it doesn't mean that I have to translate everything to actually make myself see it this way totally not there is no effort for effort involved this is the recognition it's not the mental gymnastic that makes it evident you mentioned before everybody might like everybody might how many bodies look at all the bodies in this room what can any of those bodies do if that life essence is not animating expression through them can't do a damn thing so that's their problem we take the person intervention menons darling or Hitler or whatever it was all personalities all masks persona all masks are conceptual image the same with all the personalities in this room with the real one stand up you should all stand up because you are real not as you appear there's only the one and and what is that one is that one to which we always come back and that one that is the only one worthy of actually sitting with really is that essence the source the source of all knowledge and all that is known and that's the consciousness that I am that's the sense of presence awareness of presence this is the only thing that is actually required to be recognized I mean it's not even a process of recognition it's really resting the attention on that very fact of our own being.

So if that is brought back to the attention, because it usually stays in the background and on the foreground is whatever appears on the screen, so the screen is not really noticed, the content is noticed, but if the attention rests back on itself, on its own source, like what is the source of attention? What is attention? Where does it come from? This is something that is actually worthy of sitting in silence for a moment and just sinking into it. Like what is it? What is that movement that made me aware of the content? And what is that awareness? What is that? What is that attention?

Where is it coming from? Where is it and where it is not? Is there a place, can there be a place where it is not? We all use words. Now if words weren't meant to be there, you would never have learned them. The cat, the dog, the horse, the crow or the bird don't learn words. They make sounds to discriminate. Words can be utilized. The problem is we don't utilize the words, we let the words utilize us, put this conceptual image on it and we believe what the conceptual image is to be the real. That's why we say the word is not the real. It's not the thing.

And you look at it and you see that, investigate it a little bit and have a look. Is the word water? Can you drink it? Can you swim in it? Can you drown in it? The word fire. And the main one is this word I or me. You can't do much with I or me. You can't do much with I or me. You can't do much with I or me. But what do we do? We add other words or concepts. And when we take those words or concepts, me, Bob, this, Jay, the good fella or conceptual image I've got, and start to tell me I'm not good enough, it's not right, it's not necessary.

I'm letting myself up with the word. It doesn't have to happen. It will happen until it's investigated and seen. What can you do without the word? So it doesn't matter. It doesn't matter. It doesn't mean it's so you have to do away with words. But if you're utilising a word and understanding what it means, you're not bound into the word. You're not bound by the word I or me. Because on its own, I, you can't do much with I or me. Another conceptual pattern of other words that makes it seemingly real. I. Yeah, so it would leave us in the same place, the question that Bob is suggesting.

The words. What would we do without them? If we didn't have any words? How would the experience be? If there was no labels anywhere? So this is only through the conditioning and through words that we learned to differentiate world and make it so complex. Without that, again, what I suggested, to sit with the pure attention on attention. Of finding a source of awareness. And just staying with it. The same place you find when you just put the words aside. All the mental noise, all the words, all the ideas, just aside. And now, what's usually in the background, the screen, comes forth. And the aliveness that is in it shines through.

And then, of course, the obscuration happens right away. There are sounds, sights, there are thoughts. Everything appears on it. But they can be discarded for a moment. Just to build, just to find the love of being. Just to really give the attention where it is due. Just come home. Just for a moment. Stay in that place which is the most important. The most intimate and the closest that we could ever experience. So this is really to just savor it for a moment. Because when we find the way back home to that place, that place of stillness, that place of silence, then it's very, very easy to see what obscures it.

But if we don't have the proper taste of it, then it's actually the obscuration. The obscurations take the best of us. So really cutting off from the distractions, from the past, future, stories, sensations, and seeing back what is the source of attention. Where is the knowing coming from? What am I? What is that sense of presence or being? Or what am I knowing with? What is the light in which I see? What is the light in which I see everything? What is that awareness? That intelligent being? That awareness of existence? And how peaceful does it feel to actually rest in it? And if we fall in love in that, it will naturally just come back.

It will naturally become more... It will become much dearer than even the most appealing story. A lot of people do the investigation and find the way through. But the love is missing. I personally think it's just so much more pleasurable with love. It's just so much easier to fall in love with that stillness that you are. And instead of running away from suffering, and doing the mind-boggling investigation, I'm not this, I'm not that, I'm not... You know, which is very, very helpful and which resonates with many, many people and which is totally to be utilized. But when there is love for that closest, most intimate place, the home, the heart of hearts, the core of being, it's just so much more easy.

There's no effort. Because love is what attracts us. So natural attraction to it grows. And then naturally we want to come back to this... to that sweet place. Distractions are very easily recognized then. And there is no running away from suffering. And there is no trying to suppress the thinking or stop the distractions. It's just to recognize them. Ah, cloud. Back home. Ah, another one. Back in that sweetness of being. Going back to the silence. We've said the silence before. Didn't the saga say, My silence sings, my emptiness is full? Stay with that for a while. I'm not assuming subtle vibration of energy going on.

It'll bring up tunes. There might be some familiar tune you might know. It'll be going along with... thinking other things and the words won't be put into it. The music. I knew it was one of the philosophers said, What you are, shouts so loudly, that I cannot hear what you say. Beautiful. It is beautiful. It's not just talking to talk, it's walking to walk as well. Savor the silence. Unless you have questions, of course, or comments. I mean, you wouldn't be here if you didn't have that, you know, that love for this... or longing for this, or... at least a lot of experiences. Because that's the natural state.

It's not something that we have to look for far away. It's the closest thing that we could... It's the closest and the most obvious. And it's there all the time. That's why it's filtered out. And it can't be seen, heard, or taste, or touch, or smell, because it's still, it doesn't change. It's the only one thing in the whole appearance that never ever changes. So it can't be perceived. Because perception is about something that is changing. It is not a manifestation. It is not part of the dream. It is another order of being. It is one thing that doesn't ever fluctuate, change, or float. It's there, the screen, all the time.

It is the only thing that is real. The only thing that is timeless, spaceless, beginningless, and endless. That's why it's so invisible and it cannot be found. Because all the instruments that we have for finding and for looking are our senses. And it can't be sensed because it's pre-sense. But it can't be denied. But you're saying it can't be sensed and I sense the stillness and the love. Totally, yeah. You're right, you're right. It's absolute paradox. Because you can't sense the screen, but you can't deny it either. I mean, there is a sat-cittananda, love to be. You can't sense it, but yet, when the attention rests on it, it shines, it becomes visible.

So it kind of almost becomes, like almost you could say you can sense it. But you only sense a disappearance of disturbance. You sense what's going away. You sense the clouds going away. The shining sun or the sky, it is unsensible. See, you sense it as the opposite to the destruction. The peace is an absence of disturbance. The silence is an absence of noise. So it's a paradox. You're totally right. You can sense it in a way as the absence of the sensory disturbance. Yes. Yes. We're so used to using a particular type of language. Now, what came out of you was, but I sensed it.

If I was to ask you to describe what that sensation was, could you? What I'm actually saying is what was experienced negating the experience, but the communication that is used to describe the experience is actually incorrect to do with the senses. But that's all we know. So that's what we say. Anything that's connected to the senses is connected to the body and is objective. Can't be it. It's purely objective. If you can be aware of the senses, if you can be aware of the body, there's something else that's aware of that. Those senses. This is prior to that. Pre the senses. It sounds pretty fluffy.

No, no, it's perfectly, perfectly said. Yes. Exactly. But until that scene, that sounds very fluffy. But at the same time, you know, when TAS is saying, and you're completely right, you know, you kind of sense response to it. When the love starts flowing, when that love for the silence starts flowing, that's a response which has physical component. You start, your brain starts throwing serotonin and dopamine and you feel pleasure. You feel bliss. Your body is, you know, your blood is circulating in a new way. There is more oxygen. You are breathing differently. That's the response. And that can totally be sensed. But as Therese said, those things are actually objects in awareness.

The response, the bliss, the blood flow, the breathing, the pleasure. Those can be sensed. And yes, when I say sit in that, in that no place like home, that sweet core of essence, heart of the hearts. Yes, you are going to be experiencing that bliss. But you are not experiencing presence. You are experiencing the response to the body a response of the body to the absence of disturbance and resistances and obstacles. It's like this is the natural state. Yes. It's an absence. Yes. It's a great sample. Can you negate that? Can it change us? Hmmm. We get to start with primarily what we are attempting to do is to go searching for or looking for the me.

Is it real? Does it actually exist? And I guess my question in relation to that is at what point do we actually earnestly and honestly go looking for that me? Because initially we come in and as a skin all the conceptual ideas and beliefs and who I believe I am and so on and so forth we wear that as a skin and take that to be who I am. That is who I am. Then after a period of time you know there starts to get a little bit of distance up between all the thoughts and all the noise and the white noise and the judgements and belief systems and so on that go on in our minds.

There starts to get a little bit of distance from that. Okay. Then we at least get to a point where we can say okay I can see I am not that but my question is at what point do we genuinely genuinely actually go diligently looking for that core sense of me? Because until it is seen it feels subjective. It feels like it has a core. It feels like it is present. Like totally present. So at what point? What point do we actually really go looking? And if we are not genuinely really going looking what are we doing? That is not a criticism either. But what are we doing if not that?

What are we doing? Still looking at the objective. Whether it be the body whether it be the senses whether it be thoughts whether it be feelings whether it be ideas whatever the case might be we are still caught up in the objective. There is still something here that is aware of all that has become aware of all of that and that that is here that is aware of all of that we are still not looking at that. What is that? We are still not going there. Hello? Fuck you. Fuck you. When? When? What point do we actually turn and I kind of almost mean this literally turn and look.

What point? Turning. For me I got to a point where I could see that anything objective wasn't who or what I am. But having said that it was still an intellectual understanding. Absolutely it was. No doubt it was still an intellectual understanding. Yep I get it. I see that. It makes sense. You know. So for a long time well time is relative but you know over a period of time what we fail to see is that on this search or on this quest we keep fucking bringing the ego or the me with us. And that is the point. We do. So the ego seems to have some control.

A bit like how you can hold your breath but you can't do it for long. And same with thoughts. It seems like you can direct them a bit. And I don't know how much you can direct them but I can sort of see that they might conk out like holding your breath. And so I'm a bit lost in you know thoughts that I feel like I can direct. So what's the question? Is a thought a bit like holding your breath? You can sort of direct them you know marginally. Look it just intelligence takes over or whatever. So you think there is two of you. There is someone who has a little bit of a control and intelligence.

Somebody who can say hold your breath. But could you hold your breath if you didn't have the thought to hold the breath? Like see. Well that's where I sort of see that I have some me has some control over my thoughts. But now what's your next thought is going to be? If you think you have the control over your thoughts do you know your next thought? No I don't. No so you recognise. But sometimes I think I do. Thoughts will pop up and then I'll go to the fridge or something. That's right. But see the analogy. The thought pops up. You don't know what it's going to be.

But when the thought pop up you know what to do of course. Because the thought is doing it. It's not you doing it. The thought is exercising action. So the thought is a bit like holding your breath? Yes. When the thought comes to hold your breath you hold your breath. When the thought comes go and have a cup of tea you go have a cup of tea. Another thought says you can't hold it anymore. Yes. And another thought. Exactly like that. So the thoughts are running the show. Not you. You have absolutely no power. Well I still sort of think that I do have some.

Yeah but what is it? The thought pops up and dominates a lot. Yes. What is it that I that can dominate or choose over thoughts? What is it if not another thought? There are many God-box popping up points. See because this is precisely what Terry is pointing at. And this is very very important. This is a crucial point. And I'll give it back to Terry. It's just that I wanted to add. You are thinking that there is a me that can act out on thought to a certain extent. Now. Certain extent. Yes. Very limited because. Now. Yes. What is that me? Terry take over. You best at it.

Yeah. I mean ultimately that's what you have to come to. Which is what I was alluding to. Yeah. At some point. At some point. There is the absolute awareness that or understanding that where I've arrived. Where I've. Whilst I've been on this path of self-inquiry. Where I've arrived. Is yes I can see. And I'm aware. That I can't be. Anything that's objective. So there's. There's got to be a subject here. There's got to be a subject. Now at that point. Whilst that understanding and whilst that learning. Is still intellectual. And it is. Fucking. Don't be fooled otherwise. It is. Okay. It's purely intellectual. What. What.

Once. One arrives at. That's. That space. Or that. Even that understanding. There still. Feels. Like. There's. A subjective. Me. Here. There still feels like. A call here. I still feel like. I am. I still feel like. I am. I am. I am. I am. I am. I am. I am. I am. I am. I feel like I am. I feel like I am. Here. I still feel like I am. Stuck. You know like. I get all that. Like. I get it. I see it. Understand it. Got it. Fucking. Now what. Like. Seriously. Now what. You know. For me. It got to a point. Where. I knew.

Somehow. I knew. else that I hadn't already looked at or understood. Hadn't already looked at or understood. But what I was left with was this core sense of me, this core sense of presence, that I'm still here and I still feel stuck. So my question earlier was, at what point do you actually really, genuinely, earnestly go looking for the me? And I would suggest, and what I've just said is at that point. Is it a point? No, it's just purely terminology. Yeah, it's just now. It's always now. It's always stopping at a point. You can emerge back into it. So there comes a time, not a point.

And there is no time either. I know, that's why I would, you know, whatever I've done. I know. But I'll use the word point again. It doesn't matter. But there comes a point or there comes a time when you literally get thrown back on your own resources. Has to. It has to. Well, my mate thinks it's making progress. That's okay, Tame. Yeah, yeah. And look, I'm not just necessarily saying this. I'm not necessarily saying this to you either. Yeah. I think you were a step ahead, I think, Terry, because Tony, I get the feeling that you still kind of believe that there is a doership, that there is some, you know, that you have part of the control and the rest of the control life has.

Like you have no control over your seeing or heartbeat, but you still have a little bit of a control over thoughts or holding your breath. So it still feels like there is someone who has the power or someone who has the control that has been given from life, of course, because if you were dead, you wouldn't have that control. So obviously it is. But there is a someone that is between the pure life and the appearance. And it also doesn't have much control. Not much. Yes. Just a smidge. So now there is a point because Terry is totally on the ball, but it's a step ahead.

Terry is talking about the situation where you have absolutely no doubt that there is no personal doership at all. So you still think there is some. Investigate how much control you have really honestly, really earnestly. Not much. How little? How little? You can hold your breath, can you? Yes. Okay. So let's say you can only just hold your breath and maybe choose between two thoughts or something like that. So now investigate how it really happens, the holding breath. Like can you hold the breath if the thought doesn't occur to hold your breath? Yes. So if you don't have any idea about holding breath, can it happen?

No, it can't. So okay. So you have control over holding your breath only if that random thought happened to occur. Yes. So you don't really have control. The thought has to occur first. And can you make that thought occur? Can you kind of bring that thought? No, you can't. Okay. So you don't control. You know, it seems like there is control over the breath, but it only is there if you are awake, if you have that thought, and if that thought is strong enough that you act on it. Because sometimes the thought may come, I can hold my breath, but this doesn't happen. And sometimes the thought come, I can hold my breath now.

And it happens. So it depends whether that thought has enough energy in it to exercise action. I can have the thought, I go and have a cup of tea and not go. Or that thought will be so persistent that I'll just see my body going. I will have absolutely no saying. So it doesn't depend on me choosing to act on thought. It depends how charged the thought is. Like see the dogs when they pass each other and they start violently barking if they chose it. They didn't. It was just a response. So see, sometimes the thought, the predominant, very strong thought occurs to you. I'll go and have a ride on a bicycle.

And you find yourself going. And sometimes the thought is weak. Yeah, I don't know, maybe not. Well, and the thought doesn't exercise action because it doesn't have that fuel in it. It's not burning. It doesn't have power in it. So it's not you actually putting that power into a thought. It's life. It's the same as life is responsible for seeing. And some days you may be very tired. And it may be little. It may be light. And you're seeing it's a little bit bad. And sometimes you're just so fresh. You're seeing. Your vision is so clear. Same with thoughts. Sometimes the thought is so strong.

It's so direct that you have clear guidance. And you see the body following it. And you don't even argue with it because it has absolute, you know, it's in charge. That thought is in charge of the show. And sometimes the thought is kind of vague, you know, like a cloud in the sky. Maybe it will get the show. Maybe it won't. So it really is just the screen and the show of thoughts. The strong thought will get you there. The strong story, I'm unworthy. The same thing is just occurring, just appearing. If it's strong, if life fuels it, it's like balloon, you know, like an air making.

If it's really charged with that energy, Bob calls it energy of belief, that's a really good way to do it. Although there is not a believer that gives it. It's just life making it, you know, that thought is already charged. It's already, it's almost, you know, almost made to flesh. Like someone has the vision how to paint the painting and this painting is already appearing. That thought is so potent that it exercise actions. There's no you having... That's when you say, oh, that's a good idea. Yes. Yes. And when the idea occurs, just see how much have you to do with that and how much choice of free will you have to act or not on that.

If you really observed how much energy the thought already contains in it, it will completely make the, make the I redundant. No, I feel so I understand exactly. Yes. So now, now you are where Terry is. You know that you have no personal. Do worship, no free will, whether you can hold your breath or not still a little bit. Okay. Show us where, how give us an example. Okay. When you think of one, please remember it because, because it's really good to get clarity on it. If, if there is any, any idea that there is still a personal doership that can change the thought or anything that is other than just another thought.

That is something else than just another thought. Then you got to look into it because that's the step which will, which will catapult you right to the point which Terry is talking about the point to which you have absolutely no illusion anymore about having any doership. And the only thing that is left is that sense, but there is still something and there's still a me and that me feel separate. That's how it feels like, Oh my God, I can't do anything. It's thoughts doing everything, but there is still a sense of me, but because you still kind of have moments when you feel that this me have any choices or makes any decisions or does anything, just pinpoint that moments and go really deep into it and see if really there is a me doing it or it's just another thought that has so much charge in it that the action is exercised.

Okay. You had a taste of it then when you asked how much is there and you said, I've gone blank. When the blank was there, what could you say about it? When the blank was there, what you didn't have an answer, did you? Couldn't say anything. You didn't disappear. Didn't disappear. Your heart didn't stop beating. No. No. Just as well. Just as well without, without your volition, without your, any, any input or contribution from Tony, the whole thing is working perfectly well without the image, mental image of Tony, without even having an idea because when you're blank, you don't even know what you are. Just that awareness.

Yes. I really like the word absence. It really hurts. I suppose I've been in a process of letting go what I'm not, but having a deep fear that without those things, I'm nothing. No thing. Yeah. I suppose that sequence that you, I don't know, just that heartfelt. That's right. That you, that was coming out of you earlier. Take a garbage out and you're still out. Well, that's what is there. Yes. And, and I suppose I, I hadn't, I was terrified of letting go of, of, of even my thoughts because I thought I would die. Wow. That I would die without them. That I would disappear.

Oh, it's just so beautiful. So much love. This morning as I sort of sat, my eyes opened and I, and it just made sense that I'm, I'm not the story. I'm not what I, I'm not my thoughts. I'm not what I tell myself, but that I still am that this, this is, this, there's a life pulsing through me. It's beautiful and powerful and alive. And I can't negate that. No. And you're not going to lose it. I can't negate that. And I can't, and I'm not in control of it. Yes. Yes. And you can't lose it. Yeah. The idea that you are left with nothing is only valid for the mind.

For the heart, you left with absolute love. Which is what I felt the heart earlier. And I think that's when you said it's important to, to, to in, in the nonjoual inquiry to fall in love. Because if it gets too heavy, I get a bit sort of, so it's important to have heart. Absolutely. For the mind, you're really left with nothing because mind doesn't really touch on love or heart. It doesn't understand it. It, this is a different order. But without the mind, you're still there. You're so much more there without the obstructions, the energy. It was the first time. And, and, and since then, you know, I thought, oh, I'm going to see a nutritionist and an aerobatic practitioner.

I want to look after this life essence. I want to look after this form. Yeah. I want to cherish it as best I can. Yeah. And then, you know, in another 30 years, you're going to fall into bits. Which is fine. But I suppose I didn't love myself, love it, love enough to look after this. Or, you know, I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know that it's a good thing. I know that it's a good thing. And I want to have a family. I want to have a kid. I don't want to have anything.

But if I don't have anything, I'm still just a child. That's the nature. I'm talking about, I'm not talking about language. I'm talking about that there's a certain, that there's a certain, there's a certain thing that's just not there, right. And if you have it, you can't get rid of it. It's a spiritual thing, that's how. You have to, you have to live it. You have to have it. That's how it's going to be. So how do you deal with it? How can you deal with this? It's a wonderful thing. What do you mean? They're one and the same. Body is just expression of it.

And the awareness is an expression of it. Everything is it. But yeah, looking at it as a temple, appreciating it. Which, yeah, it feels that love is the one that does that. Yes. I was just telling Terry before, I had a dream last night that Bob was breaking down my front door. So this is kind of interesting timing. Yeah, yeah. I could hear on the other side of the door. I thought, that's Bob's voice. He's going, we've got to get in that door. And he was pushing the door. I have a look at that word absence. Absence of the sense of presence. Absence of the absence of presence.

And absence of the absence. What are you going to fixate on then? Yeah. Absence of the absence of absence. And what's left? Paradoxically, us. You've discovered it's not a void. It's not a vacuum. I'm not, I don't die. There's no death in it. Absolutely. There's life in it. It is. Well, if you're not conceptualised, it must be joyous to say. We put that word on it, but it's not it. A natural joy of being. Sense of being. And the flow that's ever present. Put another bar in that thing. You reckon it's just a nothing that can be said, and then. What you're talking about, the sensations of a notice coming up in it.

What you were saying, Paul, that that's really what it is to me, and nothing that can be said. Yeah. So, you know, and then some sensations like a smile, you know, a raising of some cheek muscles is noticed. And so, you're thinking, what's going to happen? And maybe a sense of acceleration. Before, Kay, you were talking about resting your attention on the no thing or the stillness. And that's not an object. And I've always. I've always struggled with that sort of paradox or dilemma that you're trying. So, would you actually say that what you're talking about is actually letting attention come to rest? Yes, definitely.

Yes, exactly. So, not trying to put it onto something, just letting it just settle. Absolutely. Rest it in stillness. Let it fall back onto itself. Yeah. Yeah, you're right. You totally can't find. Because I'm trying to find something in my consciousness to rest on. Yeah. Yeah. Thank you. Thank you for clarifying it. Yeah. And it's obviously very confusing. So, Terry's saying. Yes. Yes. Before I left, when Terry talked, he's very emphatic. And I'm thinking, yeah, I want to do it. I want to investigate. But I think there's a lot of confusion because people don't actually know what to do. They don't know what. And I'm looking.

Just be. Yeah, just be. But the thing is, just be. It's not always looking. It's okay. It's a first start. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Because you say, yeah, I know that but I need to work this out. But what do you actually get? What's there if you don't think about it? It's just life. Yeah, that's it. And then that's what comes to mind. I read something last night that I wanted to share that it's in a book called, Everything Else is Bondage. And it just says that we are pure subjectivity, but we're making an object of ourself.

And that's the problem. And I thought, wow, that's really nice. That's exactly right. Really resonant. And because you sort of see, oh, if we are subjectivity. we're we're floating we're not anything not a point we're just spontaneous rises and falls and whilst there's still the sense of a subjective separate may here it cannot understand that because it because it's even sees that that presence or that resting back in whatever as an object as a thing that I kind of need to find first before I can kind of reside or rest back in it okay so but the only way that that can be actually known and or experienced is in the absence of this person personalized sense of me that's what's the last thing to go you will find you know after you've been exposed to this for a long time okay you'll be a very very clear understanding like there'll be a clear understanding however I still feel like I'm here yeah and Kat might say you know sit back relax back and just reside in that stillness that that sense of presence and me can fucking not do that can't absolutely can't do it so even when Kat's saying that it's still a pointer it's still you know kind of hinting hinting around something but there's still something primary their primary there that needs to be seen that's why I said before at what point do we really actually start to look at the things that we can not see what point do we really actually start to look at the things that we can not see and it's at that point right there right there right there where you are right now that's when you start to look that's when the real seeking or searching actually starts prior to that we come in here and correct me if I'm wrong but prior to that when we come in here what we're using is our fucking intellect it is yeah and that's totally okay that's just part of the process but a different journey where I didn't do that but that came up in moments when it did so you know eventually you'll get to a point where you exhaust the intellect in that you see it all, yep got it I know it, yep yep yep still it's still all conceptual mind you it is still all conceptual but because there's still a me here so it's gotta be conceptual has to be okay but it's enough it's enough to get you to the point where you actually now instead of looking out because we do we look out at everything even thoughts they're kind of away from us aren't they everything's objective you know you know you know eventually you've got to get to get to a point where instead of looking at the objective go looking for the subject because that me that feels like it's residing here in the body feels bloody subjective it feels like it's here and it becomes really one pointed all you're now doing is trying to find it a bit like losing your wallet you know you lose your wallet and you can fucking stand there for the next 15 minutes going oh fuck credit card license I've got to do this and I've got to change that and there's money in there and I was going to use that cash to do this and a big story gets created around the fact that you've lost your wallet some point you've got to drop the story and just literally go looking for your wallet and yeah yeah I mean it is it is but seeing that and then and here's the interesting thing when you actually find the wallet when you find it it's like ah there is that ah there is that sense yeah and that kind of eluding to something there when I say that but at some point at some point you've got to be over the moment you've got to be over the moment you've got to be over the moment you've got to be over the mind you've got to be over the intellect you've got to be over this intellectual understanding that I have of this you have to and it it will it will just happen you've got to be the cow that jumps over the moon yeah yeah beautiful that's so nice I thought that was something to say I thought that was something to say we try to go with the concept and we fail and he says yeah me I'm not I'm not I'm not I'm not I'm not I'm not I'm not I'm not he says you're bound to fail no way in the world you're going to succeed by trying to so I said it I built there was a whole identity built from it that I also thought was real and so that identity then created a world of fear which I also thought was real but again this is the first time it's like oh this there is nothing to be afraid of because there is no fear it's a sensation we've labelled that's fear but I what world I've created based from that of being afraid from such an early age a whole world isn't that amazing a whole world you're not the only one everybody I know but you see that fear had me isolated from even relating to someone else who would be afraid yeah I was afraid of them yeah so I it was just this instant this this this this this this this this private very very very very closed existence trapped and look don't get me wrong please don't get me wrong okay that seeing even if it's even if it's intellectual okay there's a tremendous amount of relief that comes over that that is experienced when you start to see I'm not that thought or I'm not that belief or I'm not you know what I thought I was there is a relief there is a relief absolutely that is experienced there is because you're not fucking caught you know what I mean in the nightmare wearing it and it's kind of like there gets some it gets some distance yeah so if you're if you're still now currently experiencing that there's still this sense of me here turn and look for the subject where is it what is it and that kind of looking or seeking or pursuing is clear quite focused compared to all the other shit that we had to look at before getting to that point which is I'm not that I'm not that I'm not that oh god god my history and my dramas and what like Tass was just explaining I'm not that I'm not that I'm not that oh god god just explain it's like netty netty you do not yeah yeah but eventually eventually which is I love netty netty I do but eventually you're gonna get to a point where you go yeah looked at everything I'm not but that's for everyone to arrive to when they do Terry sure sure I've looked at everything but I'm not but I still feel like I'm here that's when you that's when you really go look and it's not complicated it's not complicated not as complicated as all the other stuff that we first had to look at before getting to that point of just turning and literally go looking that's when you really go looking that's when you really go looking all the other stuff is just first identifying what I'm not you've exhausted all the other avenues yeah you just do you do which is awesome that's totally awesome that that occurs but at some point you've just got to pause stop and just you know you've got to you've got to pause stop turn when it happens when it totally absolutely you can't make that happen let me tell you you can't but for some reason I keep looking at it for some reason yeah I don't know there is a there is a pause and you just pause and turn and literally go go