Non Duality with Sailor Bob - on imagining - 27 09 18

Okay so let's start with the names if we know everyone. Melanie, Karen, Michael, Tony, Robin, Terry, Bob, Captain. Yeah, so you want to start it please? I'll start off, I start off with it and then anybody else does it whatever they care to. I can't teach you anything here and I can't tell you anything. Understand that right from the start, all we can do is point toward and ask you to look to where we're pointing to and see for yourself. Because if you understand what we point to, you realise that nobody can ever tell you anything and nobody can ever teach you. And the other way I'll put it too, I'm not speaking to anybody, I'm not speaking to any mind.

I'm not speaking to anybody, mind, belief you've got about yourself. I'm speaking to you. I'm speaking to that I am that I am. That sense of presence, the awareness of being presence of the West, expresses through the mind as the thought I am, just to this and nothing else. So they call it non-duality. A lot of people call it that, call it all sorts of other names. And again when you understand what we point to. There can't be duality with not duality. There can't be not duality with not duality. There can't be non-duality without duality. So they're one and the same thing. And a lot of it's based on the teachings of Advaita.

And some of these people around call it Neo-Advaita. A new Advaita. If it's Advaita, how many Advaitas can there be? They've got a tag on it describing it. Just the same as consciousness. They divide consciousness into super-conscious, subconscious and every other sorts of consciousness. And how many consciousnesses can there be? So what we point to, non-duality we call it, it's one without a second it means. There's only the one. And you look in all the scriptures closely, all of it, basic tests from all the different religions, different religions, they all point to that one essence. The one. So they use, tell you in the Bible in the beginning was the Word.

The Word was with God. And the Word was God. So in other words, God's only a Word. A label. And how many words were you born with? You weren't born with any words. But when you reach the age of about two, two and a half, your parents, you started to learn words from your parents. And they were reinforced by your schools, your society, your peers and everybody, and yourself. We've taken the Word to be the thing. Tells you in the N. Singh Ming. Where it ends, a beautiful little thing. The way is beyond language. But if there's no yesterday, no tomorrow, no today. If we were brought up with words, and we use the words, if you investigate the words, you'll see the words are not the real.

Have a look at that and see for yourself. Can you drink the word water? Can you wash it? Can you swim it? Will you drown it? Does the word fire burn your mouth if you speak it? It doesn't. So you recognise that there's no word. There's the actuality. But we use words. And understand that words can be utilised and used. We've taken to be the thing. And one of the words we've taken on is I or me. Myself. And we believe we are this personal self or ego. And you'll read in all the texts, the ego is the problem. The belief in me and mine, that's the problem.

The only problem we're going to have is the ego. And you need to look at that and see that this is my self. Try and find that my self you're talking about. Terry points that out beautifully when he points you to look and to see that solid seeming substance that's left after everything is gone. When you investigate it, it falls apart because there's really nothing there. It's only been reinforced that long. It seems to be something solid in the body. But there's nothing there. You understand the ego is a fiction. It never existed. Grasping that and realising that, and recognising that, that is the realisation.

That is the liberation. Liberating from that personal self. And a book in the Buddha scriptures will tell you that. It's called self-realisation through seeing with naked awareness. Anybody who isn't aware in this room right now knows you're aware. But is that awareness naked? Or is it adorned by all sorts of words, thoughts, ideas and concepts? Labels with words. And that's what's happened to it. It's no longer naked. And that's what it's brought me back to. Just seeing that ever fresh presence of awareness, the sense of knowing, the sense of being, the recognition of your awareness. You're not unaware right now, so you must be aware.

And abide as that. Another way they put it in scripture, let it rest in its uncontrived serene singularity. Not contriving it by putting any meanings or concepts on the words. Just leave it as it is. Rest in it. Relax in it. And you'll see the freedom from the beliefs that you are, the separate entity. And that's all that needs to happen. So you can take over for a minute. Yeah, it should be enough really. I mean, what else to say? If ego is a fiction or a sense of separation, of separate self, it's just a belief. So the only thing to be done is to question the belief and see if that's true.

It may feel real because it has been reinforced throughout the whole life. It has been conditioned. Just the same way Bob often uses the example like for how many hundreds of years humanity believed that the Earth was flat because it has been conditioned. Nobody would question it. The same way we were brought up to believe that there is some doer there that is doing things. That is... And we kind of were brought up and we were learned, we were taught to actually get approval by satisfying other people's expectations. By doing things. Modifying our behaviours to get more love. And as children that was a survival strategy.

We did need to... We depended on others. We depended on parents. So we did actually adopt, like the body-mind, the whole machinery adopted to the way it needed to keep the machine safe. And part of this adaptation process was when we were acknowledged for something. Oh, see little Johnny, how beautiful you ride the bicycle or what a beautiful picture you painted. He wouldn't have a clue he did it. It just happens. For a little child nothing has been done. Things just happen moment to moment. Life is happening in its all magnificence. To learn to condition ourselves to take credit for certain actions and put blame on other people for other actions is a conditioning that was reinforced for years and years and years.

And if you are really honest with yourself and you look even at the most crucial moments of your life when you think that you took the decision and you chose your path or you chose your profession or your partner, see how much it was completely conditioned and dependent on the environment. There was a psychological research showing that if you met the very same person, the same soul mate with who you spent maybe 30 years of your marriage in different circumstances, when you were in a different mood or you were threatened, it wouldn't appeal. It needs so much of the contribution of the whole universe is required for the life to go a certain way.

But then the conditioned belief or the ego says, no, I've chose it. I decided. So this is basically a belief that has been conditioned and has been practiced and has been repeated for the lifetime. So if you, it may help to honestly just look back and see if really the crucial decisions happened because there was a doer doing any process of deciding or it was just a search of life pushing the body certain way, certain direction. We say the animals don't have ego. They don't have sense of separate self. But they're still moving. They still move away from danger. They move towards pleasure. And so that movement, the body and the computer that is running the body is natural.

It doesn't need any force inside that would make choices, decisions or judgments. That force inside that we identify ourselves as us or we identify with it is basically a commentary. It's basically the mental process. When we learn words and we learn descriptions of everything, we started commenting on things. As something is happening, I say, okay, I translate it to the reference point me. This is happening to me or this is happening for me. Negative thinking, positive thinking, whatever. But the commentary line became a... covered up the reality of the spontaneous functioning of life. Like, to make it even more ridiculous, I really like when Bob brings up these examples.

I'm breathing. Like, really? I'm breathing. Am I really doing it? Because, well, I can to a certain extent, it feels like, modify the breathing. Yeah, sure, I can stop the breathing for one minute or whatever. But can I do it if I don't have the thought in my mind to do it? So basically, even everything, every simplest and a single function that is happening is happening because of the collaboration of the infinite number of forces. I'm breathing because there is an air, because there is a body, because I had a thought to modify my breathing, because I'm sitting here. It's thousands of little things that contribute to the final outcome, which is the action.

Same with making decisions or taking choices. Same with thinking. Like, particular thoughts will not arise in my head when I'm busy cooking. Particular thoughts will show up when I'm... They're just totally in tune with the functioning of the body. And if particular thoughts will not arise, particular actions won't happen. And I can't choose my thoughts. I can't even... I can't even guess what am I going to be thinking about half an hour from now. I don't know. And none of you know if you're really honest. Nobody knows that. So thoughts are happening just the same way as sounds are happening, just the same way as the heart is beating or the blood is traveling through the veins in the body and transporting oxygen.

Nobody does it. It just happens. Life happens. And life is connected. Everything... Well, saying connected is to be used as a pointer because it's not really a connection. It's oneness. It doesn't even have to be connected because connection assumes that there is more than one that is in some sort of a communication. Well, it is one appearing as many. It is one water appearing as many waves or it's one emptiness vibrating into different forms, shapes, patterns. One silence vibrating into different sounds. That same one appearing to itself as other, as the form. That's why they call it Maya or illusion because suddenly in the space of emptiness we have different forms.

We have the body. We have the body that is equipped in all the instruments that let it receive the seeming outside world. And we have the outside world which is communicating, transmitting and receiving itself as itself. So there is a whole lot going on in the appearance, in the manifestation. But all that would not possibly have happened if there was no screen or space in which it can appear. So non-duality, and again, we use the word, but we are not teaching non-duality. We are not teaching Advaita. We are basically relating our own experience. Once it is seen through, and once it is known for what it is, it becomes very basic and very simple.

Everything is known for what it is. Is that Advaita to say that thought is a thought? It doesn't need religion. It doesn't need system. It doesn't need neo-Advaita or whatever to see the thought as thought. And now if the thought appears in my head about me being inferior or me being separate, that's a thought. That's nothing. That's a thought. But because of the years of conditioning, that thought for many, many people and for most, oh gosh, big part of my life was my reality. It was believed. That was me somewhere there, the doer, who would decide the actions, who would make mistakes constantly, and who would take wrong choices, and who would have to pay, and who would waste the potential.

Because I had so much of a potential, I was wasting it because I only had this amount of attention. And I had to put it there, and it couldn't go anywhere else. So this identification with the idea of being an entity, being a doer and holding responsibility for the thoughts, holding responsibility for the heartbeat, for the sounds that are appearing just the same way as thoughts, was my reality. And I didn't question it because nobody around me questioned it. My parents, my teachers, my gurus, people that I considered way wiser than me, why would I doubt them? Like, who am I? To even doubt people who were the whole world for me.

So that was the reality, and that still is the reality for a great majority, vast majority of people. And the consequence of assuming that identity of the doer or choice maker or decision maker or someone, some entity that is different than the world, that's separate from the world, it costs a lot. It costs suffering. It costs the sense of separation, the sense of separation brings up the vulnerability, brings up the idea that now I am here and the world is out there and it is threatening. It can hurt me. I'm the body or I'm the mind. I'm something else than the rest of the world.

Whilst Bob is showing it quite often in the spiel, how the body is totally, totally one with the world, how the body doesn't exist without the elements of the world, without the air to breathe, without the water, without the matter that is made of, without the space in which it appears. Body is the world. It is just one element like everything else is made of the same elements. Or if we look into the science, everything else is made of the same field of probability, the spinning sort of particles creating some sort of a matter which is basically energy. So this feels like, this feels like solid reality and the entity inside feels like something that is really hard to question.

This feels like experience. It feels like truth. But this is the point when you are attracted to looking into those ideas. It means there is some sort of a calling from the deeper field of consciousness or awareness that will give you the courage to actually look and question everyone, question the whole world. Like this is not about acquiring a belief that now I feel I am separated, so now I will drop the idea of separation and I will become connected. Now I believe that I am one with the world. No, this is, if I trade one belief for the other, I am in the same sort of a shit, I mean my life may be a little bit more kind of optimistic if I trade the negative belief for the positive one.

But it is not about trading beliefs or enhancing the beliefs. It is about honest, genuine investigation to figure out what is true when the belief is absent. Sometimes the teachers, the great teachers like Nisargadatta or Bob, they say you are not the body. Why? Because you think the whole of your life you condition yourself to believe that you are the body. So now if the great guru will tell you no you are not, perhaps it will counteract the belief that was there before and you will stay with, oh okay, everybody else told me I am the body, he told me I am not, gosh but he is the greatest sage of all times, yeah wow, who am I going to believe?

This is not about belief. Figure it out for yourself. Like really find out for yourself. See if being the body is anything else than just a belief. Like pause the thought for a moment and see if you are still the body. See if that is true, that I am the body if I don't have a thought and when I say thought I mean mental images as well. Because that is very often how the people, visual, kinesthetic, auditory, whatever, but very often people hear the thought and see the image right away. So if I don't have the idea that I am the body, if I don't have mental image of being the body, am I really?

What is the experience? You will see that experience is totally unknowable, well it is known but it is unnameable, it is undescribable and it has nothing to do with having skin and bones and liver and legs and eyes, nothing. Pure experience of existence without the idea of being anything whatsoever, the body, the mind, the entity, the ego, whatever. Whatever the idea is. If that idea will be pushed aside for a moment and we check the pure experience, what it is like to be whatever, to be, to be me, or who am I, if I don't assume any mental images or pictures or beliefs that I learned from other people while I learned words.

Now you are going to be left with pure experience of being. You cannot say that I don't exist now because people often say, okay there is no me, I believe it, so I don't exist. Really? Who is saying it? So the existence is there. There is not to, it is not to find yourself absent because who would be finding yourself absent? It is really about finding out what is unnecessary and mental images, thoughts, any sort of a jacket, or suit of identification, I am this or I am that, is unnecessary for functioning because animals do very well without it. And they live in the moment, they do whatever is necessary, they are doing all right.

And we are doing it also, many, many times throughout the day when we don't hold onto the ideas of ourselves. When we are following our passion and we are completely one with whatever it is, music or dance, there is no idea of, well, it depends how deeply you are taken by the passion, of course, but there are moments throughout the day in our life when there is nothing wrong, when there is nothing that needs to be found, when there is no urge to find great enlightenment or become a sage or whatever, become something better or different, when there is no wanting, when there is no desire, when everything is just as it is, and it's all right.

And this is called natural state. State in which everything is fine, I don't need anything to be different than it is. Absence of desires, absence of attachments, that's how Buddhists describe it. This is natural state. On this basic natural state, pure existence, free from any need to alter, modify, or correct it or change it, from any need to become better, or richer, or grow, or whatever, become somebody. This is the natural state. Now, on that base, on that basic screen of the natural state, now there appear ideas, there appear desires, there appears longing, the sense of contraction, the sense of I'm not enough, I'm wasting my potential, or I am only a person, or I don't look as much, as good as I should look, those are thoughts, those are ideas.

Those ideas, when they are believed in, when they are embodied, when the life says, I am this idea, life embark on that thought, identifies, makes itself identical with the thought, I'm not enough. That becomes the experience, that's how life experiences itself as other. And now the same life is being called to recognize the very mechanism of identifying with the idea. The very moment when the mind makes something real, the life embodying idea, I'm separate, I'm a person, that very movement of embodying or embarking on that, going for that ride, is also being known, is being known in the basic screen, in the field of awareness.

So now, when the movement happens, I'm the body, or I'm the mind, and that movement, that vibration is recognized, it's not a problem anymore. Now it is a content of awareness. Now that very vibration that's saying, I'm the ego, and I feel the contraction, and I feel I'm the body, this is all content of the awareness. If there is a wakefulness that is aware of that very movement, that's it. You are that wakefulness, you are that screen. And a movement, whatever is the content, whatever is the content, whatever are the sounds in the room, whatever are the sights, whatever are the feelings, whatever are the vibrations, in the body, outside the body, this is all content.

You are the knowing of it. If you are the awareness, the knowing, you are equally the knowing of the sound of the heater, and equally the knowing of the hunger in a stomach, equally they are both objects in the field of awareness, and you are the awareness in which the objects are appearing. If the object in awareness is, yes, yes, but I'm still contracted, I'm still not this yet, I'm still feel like, I'm feeling, I'm ego, I'm separate, that's just another content. That's just another appearance on the screen of awareness. And when it is recognized for what it is, just a thought, because the thought is believed, it gets emotional component, it gets physical component.

That's how it happens. If you believe in fairies, you will start seeing fairies. That's how it happens. That's how the reality is being created. As a child, you believed in Santa Claus. Santa Claus was coming to your house. You could even see it somewhere. See him, whatever. So this is, this is the power that life has to make whatever is being believed real. But this is not the mind power. It is the life that is playing, is making the reality as it is. It is like a collective, the whole display is like a collective hallucination. And the way mind works in this, it brings up the stories like this because it's playful, because it's infinitely creative, because it is made of the same substance as the whole universe, as the whole awareness.

So it is brilliant. It is beautiful. So if you ask yourself a question, why did I do this or that or the other? You will come with justification just like that. The mind will come up with the story. Like the story when you, let's say you drive the car and someone jumped right in front of you and you push the brake. Oh, why did you do that? And now you come with justification. Really? You didn't even do it. The body has been trained to react spontaneously. But the mind is not. It's not. It's not. It's not. It's not. It's not. It's not. It's not. It's not.

It's not. It's not. It's not. It's not. It's not. It's not. There is no God. You know, the mind comes up with the stories. That's what it does. And when it is recognized for what it is, when the stories are seen to be just stories, these weeks, they're beautiful. They are not dangerous anymore. The story, oh, I'm unworthy. Wow. What a story. Like if I don't believe it, I can laugh at it. I used to believe it. It hurt. But right now, even, Well, the stories like this don't even come up anymore. Maybe they do, but they're ignored, so I don't really know about them.

But they still appear in others, and I don't believe in them. Like, oh gosh, if any of you would tell me that you are unworthy, I can just laugh. I mean, it's a horrible thing to laugh at someone's misery, but this is laughable, because how could you be anything less than pure perfection if you are made of that very substance that created the whole beautiful Maya, the whole appearance? You are that brilliance, that absolute creativity and love that created and appears, appearing moment to moment as such a complexity and such a diversity and such a beauty. And that includes the judgment over it, because of course, some of it, from the relative perspective, is not that nice and beautiful.

Some of that is painful. Some of them is dark. Sure, it has to be dualistic. It has to be appearing in pairs of opposites. If the whole evil would be removed from the world, the evil, the greatest evil would be a broken nail, and it would make people suicide, because everything is relative. Without the relativity, there is nothing. So to love everything as it is doesn't mean to not help someone who suffers, because that one also is a natural function. That is also… I've seen many videos of animals helping each other, like, gosh, dogs helping an elephant, or dolphins helping a dog. It happens, or it doesn't.

This is a functioning. It doesn't require the story. It doesn't require becoming someone, or… Life is really simple. Once it is known for what it is, it's very simple, and once it stops being dangerous, once… I don't have to defend myself all the time, it's very lovable also, because I'm looking at magnificence of my own self appearing as every scene and every sound, moment to moment, and it's always fresh and new, and it's there, and it could have been nothing. And in fact, it is nothing. It's just an appearance. But knowing both of it is just a celebration, really. Not a celebration. You know, the life known from the perspective in which there is no relating going on anymore, life becomes really, really simple.

It doesn't mean that things start appearing differently, or sounds start sounding differently. No, this is natural state. It is there all the time, underlying the layers, the thick layers of beliefs and identification. Under that idea that I'm the doer, I'm the body, I'm inside the body, or I'm whatever, there is that natural state, that pure, simple awareness of whatever is happening, the acknowledging of whatever is happening. Now the line of interpretation on the narrative goes on top of it. That's just mental noise, that's just additive, just like an advertisement going over the movie. It doesn't matter. It's just part of the appearance. And it is a magnificent part.

It's just part of the appearance. It has the potential to create a universe over the universe, inside the universe. Like I can think right now about my parents, and they appear in the space of my head. They exist now. Whilst when I don't think about them, this is what exists, and they don't. So the potential of mind is absolutely wonderful, is to be loved. But when I start taking it seriously, when I start taking it for a gospel, and I hear the thought in my own head, oh, you will amount to nothing. And I will go and start drinking or taking drugs. That's not fun.

But if I know, oh, that's just a thought, fine, cool, it doesn't matter. So to find, to come back to that simplicity of life, because it doesn't really have to be found, it is there all the time. It's there all along. It's just slightly covered by the layer of a story that is put on top of it. And that story is a sad story about me. That this is really, there is some me, some separate entity, some mask, some persona there. That is, and it is all about them. If that's investigated, and life is seen for what it is, there is nobody there. There's nobody home.

Yet there is pure existence. Yet there is pure knowing about being. Yet there is pure witnessing of being. Not a witness. But the witnessing, experiencing of being. Life is experiencing itself. Life is loving itself. It's dancing in front of itself, for itself, as itself. So without that, that relating, that layer of translating the world, everything that happens as something that happens in the relation to the entity made of past experiences and and whatever the collection of of memories and ideas that are kind of bound together and they're somehow kept together and yeah it's a miracle even how it is kept together because I don't know I used to have that construct for so many years over 40 years that construct of personality and once it fell apart I have no way to reconstruct it again and believe it because even if there's some sort of a past moment memory will come up there is not there's no glue in it like there is that the life doesn't really believe in it anymore like I can't be this come on it's just once it is seen through for what it is it can't be believed anymore so if you really look inside and see and check who are you?

Are you considering yourself to be? Are you considering yourself to be the body or the bundle of thoughts? Very often there's strong identification with the sex of the body I'm woman I'm man or I'm whatever gay or straight or whatever there is the or I'm Christian or the identification is endless the description of the personality pattern and taking it to be me I can describe the personality or the looks of this body but this is or any other body but description is not the described I'm not the description the fact that the body has this hair or this eyes or whatever what does it have to do with me what does it have to do with the awareness of presence of pure being of pure existence the moment I stop the thought and I stop mental images I don't even know how this body looks like I'm looking out there I can't see the body how do I know that the body didn't change?

This body didn't change in an instant I don't know so it is really about investigating what's true in absence of beliefs question every belief you were told you are the mind you were told you are the body is that really true? Is that true? What's left if I put it aside what am I? Because the only thing that can't be denied is the awareness of pure being. What's left if I put it aside what am I? Because the only thing that can't be denied is the awareness of pure being. What's left if I put it aside what am I? of being is the fact that I am.

If I look ahead and I don't even know the shape or size of the body, I'm just being. I don't know where I am. I don't know where the body begins or where it ends. I don't even know if there is anybody. There is a sensation of vibration or sounds or sights or maybe contraction or maybe pain. But all I am is the awareness of the sensations. I can't even locate them. I can say they're within me, just like every sound is within me because I'm aware of it. Just like every vibration of sensation, I'm the awareness of the sensations. So I can say I am.

Yes, there are sensations. Yes, I won't deny it. There are sights, there are sounds and there are sensations in something that I would project that is inside or outside the body. But if I stop projecting, they're just sensations. They're plain sensations. So that's all I can say. There is an existence. I can say I am. Like Bob starts the spiel, I'm not talking to bodies. I'm not talking to minds. I'm talking to I am, the sense of existence, the sense of presence. So I can say I am. There is a sense of presence. Subtitles by the Amara.org community But if I don't dress it up as any particular object that possesses the sense of presence, there's just presence.

It doesn't have beginning, end. It doesn't have shape, form, distance, anything. It just is the awareness of presence. And this is what I am. And this is what you are. And this is what everything is. Because it's just one. It's just one awareness of presence or consciousness or life that is expressing and experiencing. A Colossal Glustr flaw . Cognizing emptiness is not it. Awareness of presence is not it. I am is not it. They are just words. They are just pointers. But they point to the same thing. Because, I had a friend who was asking questions, he's like, hey, can you explain me the difference between God and the awareness and the emptiness.

Because, I, it's just too many things. It's too heavy-handed бат carbon. There's just a whole bunch of matter elements. heady it's too intellectual there is just one there is just one whatever word we use we are pointing to the same one cognizing emptiness god awareness presence self they're all pointing into the same one so people like certain words certain words absolute or source they resonate with them more than the word god which creates the mental image right away with the guy with beard or whatever so words are not important what is being pointed we call it cognizing emptiness because it's not just a void it has the capacity of knowing it has the awareness so it is aware it is conscious of itself it is a life it is being it is present it is acutely aware of its own existence in our case it is also aware of content but the content you is itself, it is and nothing appearing as the form, emptiness being a form, doesn't matter.

What matters really is the awareness of itself, resting in itself, on itself, in the singularity of itself. So this is what we are pointing, and we can call it Advaita or non-duality, but this is not really about any school of teaching, this is not about any philosophy, it doesn't matter how it's called. Base of all traditions, Bob often shows, is pointing to the same one. Christianity is pointing to the same one, saying everything is omnipotence, everything is one omnipotence, omnipresence, omniscience, one. Or God is that, whatever, God is that, but same thing. Base of all traditions is pointing into it, but really what it is about, is about coming up from the certainty, that you find, you find in yourself.

Teaching anyone anything makes no sense. Bob says, I'm not teaching anyone anything, because there isn't anyone here to teach. In this body, or in this body, or in that bodies, they are all empty. This is only the consciousness interacting with itself. There is no one that could teach you anything. And it doesn't mean that you can't take lessons of French language or cooking lessons, that's a different story. We are talking about the awareness of presence, that cannot be taught. That can only be recognized. Because it is being cognized, it is completely known to every one of you, right here, right now. Like when Bob asked, are you unaware?

Or are you, do you exist? Yes, you do. Even if you say, I don't, you have to exist to say it. So you already exist. And you know it. You know that you exist. And that's it. That's it. This is about knowing of existence. But because we were cognizant, but because we were conditioned since childhood to entertain ourselves with something else than that singular awareness of existence, we developed a habit to going to the conceptualizing imaginary world that comes from the mind. And the imaginary world has created all that beautiful appearance. And it also backfired and created the persons that have responsibility, that commit mistakes and that become suicidal, suffer.

This is all from that habit of leaving that basic sense of existence, the loving to be, the Sat Chit Ananda, being, knowing that we are and loving to be, joy of being. And going to imagination and imagine other places, other people, other stories, imagining tomorrow, imagining yesterday. Because even memory is imaginary. It has been proven many times by science, by asking people to reflect on the past memory every time the story was different. Mind comes up with spontaneous stories that are different every time. Even the memories cannot be relied on. They are not written in stone. They are imagination. They are a little bit different way of imagining.

But everything that is not right here right now is imagination. And we were conditioned to entertain ourselves with the imagination. And we were conditioned and we got so desensitized to that basic love of being that we lost touch of it. Because going to the head and imagining other countries, other people, or my own drama, it is so juicy. It is so intense. We got used to the intensity and we lost the basic sensitivity. That basic sensitivity that comes back from, that comes from just resting in the space of our own heart without words, without feelings, without stories, just being, just deliciousness of being that is not stolen or hijacked by this activity of the mind.

And this is not to say there is anything wrong with the activity because when the activity is recognized, it is fun, it is nothing wrong. I mean, the problem starts when the activity of the mind is taken to be a reality. And the me that is part of the activity of the mind, because most of the stories will be always about me, what is going to happen to me tomorrow in 10 years or 20 years, or what they think about me, or what am I going to do, or what is my tendency or my... It is always self-obsession. It is always about me. The mental activity is relating to the mind.

Most of the thoughts will be thoughts about... There will be a presumption that there is an entity me that is resolving some situation or problem or struggling with something. While this all heavy space with the presumed me is just imagination. Funny enough, the neuroscience have discovered long time ago that the selfing, the separate sense of self, actually there are two senses of self, one that comes with the language, it is in the left hemisphere, and another one that comes with the movement, the so-called natural self. The self that comes with the language, with learning words, the self that we call ego, that we call self-identity, is created by the same part of the brain that creates hallucinations when you take drugs or when you are very tired.

We are hallucinating. We conditioned our own computer there to hallucinate sense of separate self and to relate and translate the world conceptually as relevant to that hallucinated self. While this movement, how fascinating is that? How beautiful, how rich, how juicy, how intense and beautiful is that when it is recognized from the space of being, from the heart. Now you are watching the movie, but this movie is not about you anymore. It is just a way to make you feel like you are in a wonderful movie. It is just a movie that it does not matter that the hero in the movie is going through bad times or good times, or is happy or is sad or is sick or is healthy.

It is just a beautiful movie. We are watching that imaginary, that whole manifestation, this whole imagination from the place that feels like home, from the center of being, or heart, from the heart of being, the core of being. You want to say something? No, not at the moment. Go on, you go on. Think of it, give it to somebody else. Okay, give it to somebody else. Teddy, you want to say something? ...seem to be, particularly around this seeking, how incapable we seem to be to be honest. It is incredible. This is experienced, so it is not something that we can grab a hold of conceptually.

We go, yep, okay, got it, now I understand that. And all we have, if that was the case, is just another idea. So we would still be buying into the illusion of what is going on in our head. And the... to give you an example of direct experience and being absolutely honest, okay? So everyone sitting in the room here, tonight, if I was to ask everybody in the room, is the moon in the sky tonight? Bet my balls on it, excuse the language, but I... you know, I bet my life on it, that everybody would say, yeah. There's a moon up in the sky, tonight.

How do you know? Is that currently your direct experience? Or when I ask that question, is there a moon up in the sky tonight? Bet again on it. And I'll tell you for sure, an image of a moon flashed in everyone's head. See the image and go, yeah, of course there's a moon up in the sky. It's nighttime. The moon's usually always there, usually. There's a moon up in the sky. So, you know, it's about being absolutely honest and absolutely real about what you actually see or understand or know right now. Your direct experience right now. I sort of know there is a moon out there, but in my experience there's no moon.

Not right now there's not, is there? No. Is there another world? Is there a world out there? No. Not right now there's not, is there? Right now, yeah. And even standing out there, if you don't label it as not a moon, there's some sort of... But, but, but, but, but whatever it, you know, it's a bit like that, what's that saying, if a tree falls in the forest, does anybody hear? Yeah, no one's around, does it still make a sound? Yeah. Maybe that's just... No, it's the bad one. If the man is speaking in the woods and his wife is not there, is he still wrong?

Yes. No, it's the bad one. There's one, there was also, there was one about a bear shitting in the woods too. Anyway. I was just saying, like, nobody say I sat in the sun, nobody's ever sat in the sun. Yeah. Yeah, right. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So it's just, it's just about being directly honest with what you actually know, always right now, always right now. And if you start to do that, what you'll actually see is how much we do actually get caught up in here and conceptual ideas and understandings and, you know, my world right now is, you know, is right here. It doesn't extend any further than right here.

That's it. My experience right now is right here. And right now, is there a moon in the sky? No. Is there a universe out there? No. You sitting there? Yeah. Yeah. That's my direct experience. Yeah. So when it comes to actually looking, actually looking, actually looking, you know, if you get the chance, listen back to Kat's spiel, what she says, you know, and she goes over the same thing from start to finish with a slightly different tact, different take on it, slightly different take, you know, and hopefully one of those will land somewhere, you know? Yeah. Don't need one. Just, yeah, that's it. You know, just kind of needs to land.

So, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, still comes out of him so who or what is it that he's speaking to if not me not me in my body and we get told we are already that that we're looking for fucking amazing that that we're looking for we already are like I don't know it's like a shoe walking down the street you know trying to find its soul it's fucking right underneath the shoe it is it's all there and it's the soul soul that's the one that one you know a bit off it goes John Fomis you're already that yeah now why is it that we don't see that why is it that we're not aware of that why is that that we can't cognize that because of everything that cat was just saying everything that the cat was just saying we were so hypnotized into believing that what I am and what the world is what others are is all based on what I think hypnotized that becomes our reality we're just kind of odd because everyone's got different stuff going on in them so which is the real reality like really which which one's the look there's either one reality or there's a bloody eight billion of them you know yet no like it can't can it and the irony is you know in somebody else's eyes in somebody else's eyes like you could be sitting over there and gonna go terribly low self-esteem I'm an asshole I'm a fucking asshole.

should have seen what I did in third grade oh my god like whatever just stories they just it could be anything you know like just saying what I did when I was an alcoholic it could be anything yeah and we take all that to be who we are yet somebody else can be sitting right opposite us and see something completely different absolutely completely different so where we get into trouble is isn't so much what others think about us it's what we think about us yeah yeah or you know I've said it before you know you can have a what seems to be this is really good you can have what seems to be a conflict with another person argument disagreement what it whatever it might be you know what you start to see is you actually start to see the way this thing operates can only operate in one way by the way dualistically that's the only way it can operate once you actually get fully what that really actually means it's easy to watch it's really really easy to watch this kind of swings like a pendulum you know so that yeah that conflict thank you that time conflict that we think is happening between myself and somebody else isn't that's not the way it is.

the conflict that I'm having with somebody else is actually me or the thought me in conflict with the idea that I have about you so the conflict goes on in me to understand that whatever what the main thing the book the main thing that the main thing to see is if you didn't have a story going on and I didn't have a story going on could there be a conflict no no like they totally couldn't be a conflict so what it is that hides that sense of presence or hides what name do we want to give it hides our true nature let's go there okay what we actually are well anyway what it is that hides that is we're so conditioned to be doing nothing and but focusing on this here all the time all the time we focus on it so much we missed the world we absolutely miss it we missed the sound of birds wind but gentle breeze blown across we miss it all we we miss it okay now we've been conditioned to do that since we're this big just totally conditioned to do that as is everybody else before them.

so there's no one to blame okay there's absolutely no one to blame but when you what when you actually go looking for this actual me this actual self good luck trying to find it like seriously good luck trying to find it yeah you know we just assume course I'm here the fuck you you know we say you're not responsible for what you think what a fucking lot of rubbish what no one it no no no no one else is no one else is thinking it it's happening here so I must be responsible for it okay so if I believe that I'm actually responsible for everything that's going on up here turn it off just stop it see if you can if you can actually stop it if you can if you can if you can do this I'm gonna be responsible for all that I'm going to do this just go look you know I'm gonna switch it off for this 24 I'm gonna have a break I can switch it back on again and it'll be there again doing whatever it does yeah just gonna turn it off just for 24 hours and chill just relax and be it's really interesting like relax and be that's your natural state by the way and what you find just from pure investigation we can't do that yeah can't do that if I control over what it was that was going on between my ears, I'd be thinking nothing but the best fucking thoughts I could possibly think of.

I would be in a state of bliss. All my thoughts would be blissful. I would think and believe and absolutely know according to my thoughts. I'm not separate from everyone. I love everyone. What a beautiful universe this is and be patting myself on the back all the time. You're great, Terry. You know, whatever. You know? And interestingly enough, I can't do that either. So the notion that it's me doing the thinking is totally absurd. When you look and investigate, really look like I was talking about earlier, being honest, looking and investigating and seeing for yourself. They just come, whatever it is, and they go. They don't stay there forever.

They don't. Oh, yesterday. Today's thoughts are gone. Gone. Like gone. Have new ones that will come up today and slightly different flavor and smell, whatever. Yeah. Then they'll float through and they'll go. We're not doing it. You're not doing it. You're not actually doing it. Yeah. I do believe that. No, no, no. I believe. I know I said believe. That's okay. I'm not going to quote up on that. You know that. You know that. That's okay. I know that to be true. Yeah, yeah. But it's still. They're still anchoring. Still anchoring? Yeah. Great. Okay. So what are they? Great. Hold on. Hold on. That's great.

Yeah. Okay. You need to now see what are they anchoring to? So you need to look closer. Do you understand? Yeah. There's just a little bit closer. Yeah. And then you find that you'll look a little bit closer. And then you'll find you'll look a little bit closer. And the closer, the further back, if you like. Love that. The further back that you go in terms of the observation, the more laser pointed it becomes, and the less hectic it becomes because you're no longer interested in the content of what's going on in your head. You're more now more interested in trying to find where is this me?

Where is it? And what is it? Where is it? Where's its center? Where does it locate itself? Yeah. Okay. Right. So I just wanted to say, I just wanted to say, I was like, okay, I had to really think about it because, you know, like people like, okay, where, where, who are you? And everyone's like, oh yeah, yeah, I'm not that, I'm not that. And I'm listening to people being like, yeah, yeah. And I'm like, I don't even, I'm not even there yet. Like we keep jumping like four steps back and I have to really think about it sequentially. So if I'm not the body, if I'm not the body, what could it be?

And I'm like, so I really had to think really hard about it instead of just saying yes all the time. So am I the brain? And then we went through that for how long? And I was like, yeah, it's a brain, it's a body. So if I'm not the body, what could it be? So I really had to think really hard about it instead of just saying yes all the time. So I'm either brain, and then we went through that for how long? A while. A while. So basically my idea, a way of communicating it was, if you can view it as an object, that isn't you.

Yeah. Great. So it was just like, oh, thought, that appears, that can be an object, not you. And you just keep on going back and back and back until you reach that which cannot be an object. Yeah. Yeah. But I'm quite smart at trying to go around that. He's like, well, are you conscious? And I'm like, he's like, what did you say? Can consciousness arise in the body or can the body arise in consciousness? Yeah. And I was like, well, I've seen you asleep and I've seen you wake up. Creating metal images to be able to. And he's like, yeah, but you're not me. And I'm like, yeah.

Here's what I was talking about. Yeah. Here's what I was talking about earlier. Okay. Yeah. You need to be dead honest. Yeah. In your inquiry. Yeah. You need to be dead, dead honest. So if you don't know, you just say, I don't know. Yeah. This is what comes into a lot of what we spoke about too. And leave it at that. Can't mention it a couple of times. It's the importance of doubt and it is integral. With even like Karen saying earlier today, it's like, I'm not going to do this. I'm not going to do this. I'm not going to do this. I'm not going to do this.

I'm not going to do this. I'm not going to do this. I'm not going to do this. I'm not going to do, it's like, I don't want to offend you. She was saying to me, but I don't even, at times I doubt you. I don't want to believe the things you've said about your experiences and realizations. And I'm just like, great. That is amazing. Good. Keep that question. Everything. I found my own experiences I've had. I'm like did I, is that, did that really happen? I don't know. Like, you know, and like I've had what I would consider to be some quite like full on experiences.

Like, feels being alive and looking at me and, you know, like that, that's what is important. Yeah. conversation we had last time yeah and then i'm like maybe that was just like my mind tripped out for a second that's the past but you know what i mean like yeah yeah fresh and new experience is ready now bob did you want to ask crazy bob wanted to understand ultimately there's no creator yeah no creation and no creature you and i and everything in the room the insects and everything are creatures and that's why they tell you in the scriptures the whole thing is maya what's happened nothing nothing has ever happened it only appears maya is illusion it's a phenomenal manifestation and the dictionary definition of phenomena is that which appears to be it's all appearing but it's real in the sense not the way it appears the essence behind it all is reality and that's no thing no thing ever happened we must we say nothing taking that to be a vacuum and avoid but it doesn't mean that it's no thing no pattern shape or form has really happened that's why they call this the waking dream when you go to sleep at night and dream something a world can be created in that dream you can be all sorts of places doing all sorts of things when you wake up what happens to it it disappears why because it was my resolution we're left with this waking dream now if your dream continued every night and where it left off could you tell it between the difference between that and this one no yeah and do you know this is a crucial point when because i i could see i could feel that bob moved when you said the brain bob often points out that the if not for life the brain would be would start thinking would start decomposing so it is really like everything relies on that life force on that on that movement of life yeah what we've got to do is well okay so the brain like you're talking about something still has to energize the brain yes so the brain can't be you That's right.

And so then I like what something you said last week really hit home when you were talking about Thought as a sense That makes so much sense to me because if it's a sense then and we're not the thoughts and we're not the brain then We have to be awareness because all those are senses. So if there's thought, sight All of that, it's all sensations. The only thing that can know sensations is awareness You can only be aware of sensations So that's as far as I got Beautiful All these so called things appear in what we call the mind And show me your mind. There is no such thing as mind apart from thought.

We call it my mind But mind is only thought. Which particular thought are you if you are the mind? Yeah I think there's a slippery slope where people go from Where there's an automatic check in with what's that an experience and then it slips into intellectualization Yeah, and I think that happens when we start to talk about mirrors and awareness and things like that. So You know Terry was listing a bunch of things, you know, what's experience, what's experience, what's experience, but then and you before were listing Identifications, but then when you get down to the identification of Identifying with being alive or being dead, I think people can slip into the mind at that point and say oh well There must be existence.

Therefore I'm alive and it's just all head stuff Whereas it's like when you're not thinking about it, there's no alive or dead Yeah, yeah, there's just no this pure experience of some sort, you know, which you can't bound or label So really to me awareness doesn't work to ride to me. I'm slipping into intellectualization At that point it's just the full stop really is the only thing that actually rides Here totally good as far as like the conversation. That's where I got to. Yeah like that. I could agree. Yeah Honestly within myself. Yeah, because you're going back to experience. Yeah. Yeah, and then after that you probably I have to forget about it Yeah, because it becomes an intellectualization.

I'm just turning it. That's going to come back to it Yeah, because I know I'm not gonna get to the truth that I Can't Yeah, but like I'm like we're doing that spontaneous questions I was meditating. I brought this up last week too. I don't know how much was talked about it, but I was meditating like a few weeks ago and I Like just by meditating just sitting eyes closed Noticing things and then the moment I stopped noticing things I heard this question That said, how can you be in something and of something at the same time? And I know it wasn't me that asked it because the moment that I heard it or thought it I was like or inspired I was like wow that's such an amazing question and it snapped me out of that mindlessness that I was in at that time like I was like all of a sudden I was back in my body and I was like well I'm like do you answer that or do you never have to try and think about the answer or do I let the answer just go away whenever I've heard that one it's like oh he just doesn't want to try and sort that out so I don't know right now it's not it's not working here so you know I don't feel like I'm meant to answer it so the question just answer he wants to say something you can try it thinking latching onto it in the concept of time but when you look at it at time there's no such thing as time either time is just a mental concept is there a past if you don't think about it or is there a future if you don't think about it you'll tell me I was in the past I'll say well try and live a moment ago try and live yesterday last week in the future try and live when you leave here or next week you can imagine the future and anticipate it and you recall the past but the actuality is always this presence we like that we call it presence but bring into that pre-sense before any sensations arise on it but the question she had when the question arise in that silence and mindlessness the question completely took her out of the of that state of no mind should she look for the answer for a question or should she recognize question as question or what yeah ask yourself who's asking that question it wasn't me because like I wouldn't I can't create nothing like things that I thought I'd be like whoa well if you say it's not me yeah wouldn't you let it go right there and then who's having it settle down and see if it persists or an answer comes up of itself yeah so you kind of knew that it wasn't your question you kind of knew that it was just question floating in the air yeah it was just a question floating in the air in the awareness yeah but it didn't bother you you didn't if it wasn't yours yeah cool that's fantastic this is precisely what it is to be recognize things for what they are if the question floats in the air oh question floating in the air but the question says da da da who cares there's nobody here to care yeah yeah it's like yeah I know Tony it was exactly what you were saying like just don't go to the mind and chew on it just recognize question floating in the air cool if there is no questioner having that question there's no one who has a problem yeah no question or no question where's the sense of separation one day it might suddenly mean something that points to nothingness you know one may never do that that question yeah because I just thought of a box because I've had that question in the box yeah like I was like oh how and I just remember thinking well yeah you're right that's crazy but that's as far as it went and then like I don't feel like I haven't felt like I need to read that yeah yeah and I tried to meditate on it once I was like no it's not going to so it was too much beautiful this is exactly exactly the less you chew on whatever the content of the mind the lighter the happier the more blissful the life becomes yeah the less chewing like this is what Tony was saying if you find a way not to go to the mind if you find the way not to whatever is happening not to think about it full stop to the silence and not to think about it.

It will resolve itself because everything does. It's just the thinking that conceptually we live the life as it is, as it is happening and we go and imagine things because thinking is basically imagining. So if you can stop yourself to go to the head and keep resolving the imaginary issues, wonderful. Sometimes you can't. Sometimes it is going on, the movement of the mind is going on and after a while you recognize oh yeah right that was this going on fine cool now it's past now I'm aware. So it is important not to actually dwell in the past oh I shouldn't have spent so much time chewing on it because that's counterproductive that you are focusing on you're chewing more on it actually when you analyze the past.

Exactly and also the mind is absolutely wonderful like all creative processes are coming in the mind. Exactly and also the mind is absolutely wonderful like all creative processes are coming in the mind. And giving a space and being aware of that absolute beautiful creativity and being happy for it to happen. Ultimately the freedom is freedom from preference whether the mind is quiet or the mind is chatting. Whether there is a mental noise going on or there is no mental noise going on, who cares? If there is nobody who cares I don't even try to silence the mind. Why? It doesn't bother me, it's not my mind.

It's just a stream of thoughts. Who cares? That's the freedom because very often people are looking for the way to stop thinking or to think less and initially that's where the life is directing them and they are struggling and fighting and they tire themselves and exhaust themselves and they give up or they don't whatever some people get some results fine that's what life does but ultimate freedom is freedom from everything from having a preference whichever way the life appears to itself there's nobody who is to judge it. There's nobody who is to complain about it. Okay this is what is. Chatter? Okay. Silence? Okay. Nobody cares.

There's nobody home. That's what what is is means. Unaltered, unmodified, uncorrected. No preference, no partiality, no comparison. Just have everything as it is without putting any of those concepts on it. Just to acknowledge where you were talking from, it seemed to me that in those times and it's quite often like that for me, you just notice that it's popping up and you notice that the brain doesn't want to go there so it seems like you already have that experience of it just coming already as it is. Yeah. At least sometimes you know, just in case you have a trigger for not being heard. Like I picked up the...

Yes. Yeah. The halfway through Pat Kat was talking about like the middle step you know you're already experiencing some of it. Yeah. That's so great. So could I just um, I want to ask you, I want to ask you two questions. Sure. Okay. And I want you to try and notice the internal difference from both these questions. Yeah. Okay? Okay. So first question. Are you aware of self? Your self? Yes. Sit there for a second. Second question. Yeah. What is that self? What's going on there compared to the first question? I've got all this cold energy running on my back. That's all I can say but there was nothing happening there.

Okay. So you generally find that innately or intuitively when we're asked that question, and I could take that somewhere else too but I won't tonight, but when we're asked that question, you know, in another way I put it, are you here? Do you exist? Yep. And generally there's quiet after that. Nothing else kind of goes on. Just yep. Then there's a stillness. And then the next question is, okay, so if I ask you to describe what that self is, oh my God. The internal dialogue that will all of a sudden get triggered and off you go. See that didn't happen. Sure. It was just like bubbles.

Like cold. Coldness. Okay. So look. Initially, what we did was, what we generally get on this search, okay, generally what we get, which is kind of what I'm hearing coming from you, is initially what we try and do is we try and get our head around this intellectually. And I'm not saying that's the wrong thing to do. I'm not. It just seems to be par for the course that we kind of do that. Yeah. At some point, at some point, you're going to become, more interested in that awareness than you are in thought. Because at the moment, like I was saying earlier, you know, is the moon here?

No. You've heard people say, when they're sitting in meditation, sit there and watch the thoughts come and go. Just watch the thoughts. Don't hook onto them. Don't name them. Don't, don't, don't, don't, don't, don't. Yeah. Just watch them come and go. It astounds me that all of the people that have done that, even, you know, at a beginner stage, it astounds me that no one's put their hand up and said, excuse me, teacher, who or what is it that is aware of these thoughts that I'm watching coming and going? No one does it. No one does it. And like you said, to be aware of something, you've got to be separate from it.

Yet, we don't, we don't ask that, like we don't even, we're not even aware that we're aware. Do you understand? We're not even aware that we're aware. We're so caught up in the illusion that's going on in here, and then we use that illusion to create reality out there. Like, It's the self that is aware. It's the one self that's aware. Everything is appearing in that self-awareness. You've got to really sit with that, like, really sit with that. If you can be aware of it, it means you're going to be separate from it. You have to be, to be aware of it. Yet, that singularity, that single state, if you like, that non-dual state, if you like, there's no splits in it.

There's no one in there, in that single singularity, going, this is my singularity. This is whose singularity? There's just one. Yeah? Just one. Then there's a split off. Seems to be. A split off. But if you actually look and sit with, and start to sit with, that awareness, you'll discover a couple of things. Number one, it's not conditioned. There's no story around it. You know, it's not, my awareness is really good, or my awareness has got low self-esteem. There's no story around it. It's clear. Like, really clear and clean. Yeah? So there's no story around it. It's not conditioned. In other words, it's not split when you're there.

So there's no story, and it's not split, and it's not conditioned. Sit with it. Actually, you're onto it. Sit with it. Sit with it. Like, really, sit with it. Sit with it. And you... That's basically all I have to do, because long story short, about 12 years ago, I had what may be called a non-dual awakening, and I recognized this is it, that's it. I was actually walking down the street, and I just started cracking up laughing. I must have looked like a madman. And there was a complete fall away of personal self. There was suddenly no more center, and it was a very confusing, very confusing time.

And after that, there was this massive unloading, and all this other stuff happened. But I guess over time, that personal sense of self kind of crept back in a bit. I have always had... Like, what was realized that day has never left. It is always here. It's always present, and it can be accessed, I suppose you could say. So there almost still remains a duality between personal self and that which has been realized, even though I know there isn't. So I see, I think, all I have to do is abide as that, and that's what I did. And absolutely nothing else. Yeah. Nothing else. Can you live in the world and abide like that?

Absolutely. And there's nothing else? Absolutely. Because everything that we do in the world, like everything that we do in the world, is totally spontaneous anyway. There's no me here. But even now, even the presence or the sense of objects requires history and understanding how we function in the world if we don't. If we know this is a couch, we're just present with the object itself. I know you think that. I know you think that. Can I... Yeah, go for it. Sorry. What I'm thinking... Apologize. What I'm thinking is, like even for me to be able to use this couch in a... How about the cat?

There are two cats going around, and they use the couch, and they don't even know the name of the couch. And they still use it. Yes. Spontaneous functioning. Because to me it seems like... And this is what I'd like to learn. To me it seems like if I just shut down that history, that understanding, that logic of what that... I would just be in some sort of state of emptiness. It's not that. It's not... No, no. Okay, got it. That's not what's being said. That's totally not what's being said. Okay? There's still going to be, you know, there's still going to be contained a memory.

That's a couch. Yeah. Oh, it seems to be about... I'm guessing it's 10 years old. You know? There's still going to be, you know, you're still going to know to walk out the door and navigate through the door. You're still going to know when you get in the car what to do and away you go. That's what you were touching on before. That's like the sixth sense. Yeah. There's a knowing. There's an innate intelligence which has got nothing to do with the personalized me that thinks it's somewhere centered in here calling the shots. So that understanding or that knowledge or that knowing, it doesn't go.

What drops away is the illusion of a me. That's all. That drops away or that's seen through, if you like. Seen for what it is. It's a personal self. It's time to know what's in the couch and what you've got to do and all the rest of it. But as I say, he said, he said, he said, he said, he said, he said, he said, he said, he said, he said, he said, he said, he said, he said, he said, he said, And it just happens without relating to that personal self. You see there's no personal self there, there never was. There's no such thing as an ego when you look into it.

We've all taken on board the belief that there is something solid and substantial there and get caught in that. And that ego or the me is a personal soul. But there's only one self and the person is a fictional self. Persona, the mask, it's a conceptual image language the words persona person there's no person so what's breathing you right now what's beating your heart what's growing you in the fair and your fingernails what's living here what's gonna use the terms of the labels to do what you got to do with the couch or whatever and also the descent center of Bob's teaching is you are already that you don't have to switch off your brain you don't have to stop thinking you don't have to stop labeling as you are already you are the manifestation and expression of that power of life it is a little bit over like covered up with the with the narrative but if you recognize the narrative for what it is just a narrative that's all that needs to be done narrative doesn't even have to be switch off and I like that Tony is constantly bringing the one of the most powerful potent pointers that Bob is using what's wrong with right now if you don't think about it if you stop thinking for one second just to find out if you still alive you'll find out yes you're still alive without thinking you are still seeing and recognizing everything in the room without thinking you recognize the sounds without thinking like you know this conceptual narrative overlaying the reality the body is breathing is seeing as hearing everything is happening so not only you are already that the only thing the only difference between you and Bob is that you may still believe in the body even if you don't believe that what you're thinking is what it is and that only you can believe when you're thinking this moment is something that you and you Berea when there is a door the body is even more powerful when that belief goes away the world looks just like at this moment the sounds sound just like at this moment and the thinking is such a wonderful capacity it's just when we recognize ah this is thinking okay so now it doesn't really yeah but it's a good line of thinking and it's wonderful that you investigate that and that you question that because it very often gets confused that oh yeah thinking is wrong we have to suppress it no we just have to recognize it for what it is thinking you can't do that yeah you can try i mean you can temporarily do it if you smoke salvia divinorum or something like that but apart from that is that's you know like you can't stop body from sweating or salivating if you see lemon the same brain one mind just stop thinking oh i'm breathing do you stop breathing yeah i'm breathing i'm not i'm beating my heart stop those does it stop you can imagine if tiger woods just dropped all his thinking he'd probably swing much better there's a bit you're training in the body you know there's a training just how to grab the stick that's training like i i don't have any memories i'm going to walk through that gap or i don't even have memories of knowing yeah well knowing because knowing to me can be a bit intellectual too because i did put agency into it even without that concept of knowingness there's still this movement to go through that gap of this kind of immediately just done with it and sometimes you jump out of bed and go i wasn't going to get up right now and go to the toilet standing you're doing it yeah there's an innate intelligence there's an innate intelligence that we are completely unaware of we're not even aware that it's functioning it's like tapping into that innate intelligence for you for what you do every day so in terms of the self and ego planning for the future would you drop all planning there isn't anything you see it was just needing to run things it just happened anyway there's there's not a self or a me or an ego doing or planning anything and needed to drop it either and which means it it's we think we've been told and conditioned to believe that we have an ego no one's ever been able to show me an ego ever it's a concept it's an idea that we've taken on and the thing that i wanted to point out to you before was i'm absolutely nowhere near i'm talking about my me okay i am nowhere near intelligent enough to be able to uh orientate this body through the world i'm i'm not and and and it yeah yeah yeah so so there is there's something else that moves this body if you like that if i'm not aware of that something else me will take credit for it just like that it'll totally take credit for it but when you actually watch like watch yeah watch what this body does throughout the course of the day and the the thousands of different things that just the body is doing and we're not even home we're not even home you know i don't know i'm not sure i'm sure you wouldn't have experienced it catching the ball yeah yeah i don't know i'm sure you've experienced this but you know you'd be you'd be driving especially if you're doing country driving i'm sure you've experienced it you'll be driving driving driving and then all of a sudden you kind of come out of it and you go later where have i been like how do you go home where am i i've heard of people parking their garages I just had a bad dream.

And even to, you know, if I was in charge of this body, mate, it would be a nightmare trying to drive a car. I'd be just thinking about every single solitary thing that I... And if that was the case, it would probably be better because my attention wouldn't be on that. All this stuff, this crazy stuff. I'd certainly be in the present, just functioning and doing. So there's an innate intelligence that it works. And it's that same innate intelligence that's rolling the Earth around the sun, that's forming planets and stars, causing the tides to come in and out. The same intelligence that's suffusing and patterning that body and everything else in this manifestation.

It's the one essence appearing, patterning, shaping and forming as everything. And you are that. That's the main thing. Start to know that you are that. I am that. Not the body, not the mind, but that innate intelligence. And the same innate intelligence also does the planning. So if... Because people often have the impression that, OK, now I should live in the moment and I should stop planning. You can't stop planning the same way as you can't stop the sun or the planets to move around. The same intelligence expresses us thoughts, us of the movement of seasons. The one thing, you can wake up to it.

You can just see it. Just see it for what it is. Don't try to suppress it. Don't try to stop it. Because you can't do it. You have no power as the entity. You can't do anything. Can't do anything about it. When you see the planning is going on, recognise it for what it is. Oh, planning is going on. You may very quickly realise that once the habit pattern, the mechanical habit pattern is seen in the light of consciousness, it won't go on mechanically that much anymore. It will dissolve. And very often those patterns, they just break down and they are not there anymore. But it doesn't mean that now we have to stop desiring or stop the attachment or stop planning.

We can't do it like Terry described. If he could change his thoughts, he would only have the blissful thoughts. But he can't. And desires and planning, they are just part of the activity. Just like sweating or salivating with the lemon. It happens. But it can be recognised. So that's where I'm trying to get to with things that are going into. So with planning, if I'm planning something and it's kind of, and I'm working hard and I've worked so hard and I've been always planning years and years and then it all just collapses and all the way it's like trying to push spaghetti uphill. And then other times when I've dropped all of it and all of a sudden things just happen.

So there's still some planning involved. Yes, yes. That's beautiful. Yes. And that's so, that's great. What? And all you need to recognise is that there is no you there seemingly doing the planning. That doesn't mean planning stops. That doesn't mean a thought stops. That doesn't mean an idea will stop. You're not doing it. And test it. Next time you're absolutely locked in really hard to something that seems extraordinarily important to you. And I mean, like the most important thing you've got going on in your life. And I'm planning and I've got to get from here to there. Nothing's getting in my way and off you go and you do it.

Yep. In the middle of it, just stop, turn around, walk away from that. See if you can. You can. See if you can. I mean, it's your plan. It's your desire. It's your, and after all, I'm in control. Really? Try not doing it. Like really. And you'll just find you're driven. You're just driven. And all the thoughts. What needs to be seen, look, really, what really needs to be seen, which will really help, is that all the thoughts, all the plans, all the ideas that come up in your head, they come up in and of themselves, by themselves. They're impersonal. There's no you there choosing, now I'm going to think this thought.

Because if there was a you there, there's no you there. If there was a you there choosing, now I'm going to think this thought, you'd sense the separateness of it. There'd be a creator over here somewhere going, all right, this is what, and I've just said before, I'm not smart enough. I'm not smart enough, right? But there'd be some sort of creator sitting here and I'm in dialogue with somebody and the creator's going, oh, quick, quick. Now say this. Say this and say that. And you won't find anybody. We think, we believe, it's the me doing that. That's the me doing that. That's the me doing that.

That's why we get asked to go looking for it. Like literally go looking for it. And what I did then was just kind of give you a bit of a conceptual idea of the me, if you like. Going, yeah, I'm choosing to do this. Quick, say this Terry. And out it comes and it's too fast. It's way too fast. Way too fast. So what you'll start to see is thoughts just spontaneously arise and disappear all the time. All by himself. Words that come out of your mouth. Like the words that are coming out of my mouth. Now, I didn't sit in my car before I walked in the door here knowing you were going to turn up and go, right, I'm going to rehearse this now.

And when he says this, I'm going to say that. It's totally spontaneous. It's too quick. Do you understand? There's no me here separate from going, okay, he said that. Because if there was, I'd need time to think about it for a moment. Yeah. How often have you thought of an appropriate thing to say hours later? Yeah. And you know what? And the truth, Tony, the truth, Tony, is what actually came out of us was the appropriate thing. It's the only thing. The only thing. It's the only thing. Not a good nor bad. That is what it is or what it was for whatever reason. And just one other thing.

And just one other quick perspective on that is that we're just so trained that the activity now is not enough. We're stopping out activity. We don't even need an intelligence driving things. That's just extra stuff. What's now is it. What's not? Yeah. Yeah. So we are over time, so we will have to come back again. Paul is showing me that. So basically, it is all, it's not about altering, modifying, changing anything. It's about recognizing, which means cognizing again, which means recognizing the things that are not there. And that's what we're doing. And that's what we're doing. And that's what we're doing. And that's what we're doing.

And that's what we're doing. And that's what we're doing. And that's what we're doing. And that's what we're doing. So basically, it is all, it's not about altering, modifying, changing anything. It's about recognizing. Which means cognizing again. Which means, innately, we all know it. There is all knowing. So whatever shows up is, just to be recognized, means known again. Doesn't have to be changed. There's no suppressing. There is no… And then, welcome everyone. We have meeting on Thursdays and Sundays also. Spontaneity is not a concept of dawn, I think. Yes. Spatinate is not a fantasy? Of time. Of time. No, not in... There is no time.

Not in captivated time. You can still come back on Thursday or Sunday, even though there's no time. Thank you very much. That's a really nice line of questioning. Yeah. Yeah. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.