It is not about IDEAS! Sailor Bob - Non Duality on 23 09 18

Ready? Where you go? I go. He will join in. He will join in. I promise you. I'll be coming. Thank you. So can you say your names maybe so everyone... Maria. Simon. Terry. Mary. Tony. Yeah, lots of Tonys. There's only one. Good answer. Yeah. Yeah, so anyone who is here new, who didn't really hear that stuff before? That's good. That's good because especially for people who come here first time, there is often an impression that we are talking about ideas. Like there is only one. Like, oh, what a fascinating idea. Now, how am I going to experience the idea that there is no separation? Like the idea is mind-boggling or mind-blowing.

Like, you know. You've got to have the courage to even think that thought. It feels this way. That, oh my gosh, there is only one. Like form is emptiness. Or like Jesus said, Father and I are one. What an ideas. So at that point when we get really kind of attracted to the ideas and we get hypnotized by those ideas. And they feel so vast. I mean, you know, people have ideas about running business or whatever. Ah, boring. Everybody does that. And I have this fabulous idea. I have this fabulous idea. I have this fabulous idea about oneness in the whole universe or no self.

My gosh. So very often this is where we actually try to sit with the ideas and find out how to make true the idea. And this is the point when we want to share this idea. We want to bug somebody else. We want to have friends that will be sharing and getting high on the same concepts. Like I used to get high with my girlfriends on the idea of enlightenment. Just hanging around and building ourselves up and getting so excited. Oh, my gosh. What an idea we're thinking. And it feels like we are talking about the philosophy here. About ideas that are better than other ideas, religious ideas or other ideas.

And that is absolutely not what is going on here. It feels this way originally. But this is not about embracing better or bigger or more kind of compelling ideas. ideas so this is not also about giving a stop it sorry about giving these ideas or sharing those ideas with other people it doesn't really matter whether other people embrace those thoughts or believe in those thoughts because really non-duality it often starts this way at least for the ordinary seekers because there is a lot of people who embrace that truth naturally without the process of seeking it sometimes happens with age or it sometimes happens with accidents or sickness or whatever but they don't have to go through through embracing it with the mind and then stepping back from the mind it's like it's like a round way it's not really doesn't have to be this way but it often happens that because I got bugged with this virus of the mind oh there is an enlightenment or there is no separation I want to spread it I want to share it with others or I will start advertising myself people come to me and listen because I'm the body sat folk I'll help you to wake up from suffering that is all not what the non-duality is about it is not about realizing the ideas it is not about finding truth in the thought that's the other way around the ideas are actually description they're expressing what has been realized beyond the ideas so if we try to embrace what is being said and sit and contemplate on it and see how this is true it's basically is the is the way is the other way around it is what is true when the ideas are absent like the idea of I am separate versus the idea I'm not separate how about absence of ideas how about if there is no thought whatsoever what is the truth in our absence of idea or let's say there is an idea I'm the body or I'm the mind or I'm the self this is what we were conditioned to believe now I will acquire or get this mind-blowing idea that no I'm not the body there is no self there is no separation ah yummy it feels like so fresh and new but this is still an idea what if I custom buff away like I don't know I am the body I'm not the body I am the mind I'm not the mind I'm not the mind I'm not the mind I'm not the mind just cancel that if those ideas that non-dual ideas and the typical conditioning ideas cancel each other out and we live in the space where the only idea that I could express with the mind is I have no clue I don't know let's find out let's find out what is true without the ideas of God or no God or oneness or lack of oneness what is true in the absence of any sort of you images mental images because that's how the mind works even when we talk about space like awareness or sky like consciousness right away because the language the words are structured the way so they represent something out there something else an object language is an objective language so right away the big vast ideas like sky like awareness become an object and we start looking for it now there is a me looking for it and I'm looking for it and I'm looking for it and I'm looking for it awareness trying to achieve or arrest in that awareness awareness is not a thing the world is representing an idea and the idea is a mental image but awareness is none of it awareness is the space or the screen in which the idea and the words and the language are manifesting or expressing itself so what we are pointing at we are pointing at think that is totally beyond prior to any language or any concepts or any thoughts and if we are already excited on the level of thinking on the mind with the realizing the truth of finding the true self or losing the ego or whatever it is very very hard to from this perspective from the viewpoint of understanding it's very very hard to find what is what has never been lost really to find that one which is prior to the thinking through those ideas because mind is not really designed this way the way mind operates is it has absolutely wonderful capacity to find objects to represent to make symbolic language to see objects as symbols but it can't see what it is appearing on because it doesn't have to actually for the mind to embrace the background on which it plays out it would have to stop being itself and get out of the background and there is nothing out there of the background so it can't be done so from the conceptual thinking that non dual truth cannot be grasped cannot be embraced or cannot be experienced the only way to experience that non dual reality is to stop thinking and then again can we stop thinking if I'm not the doer of my thinking can I stop it no but again there is in in the whole play in the whole idea of the of everything being one of life being just a manifestation just being a different vibration of patterns creating that different shapes and forms and bodies and thoughts and everything just happening as part of the functioning just like the grass grows just like the bird sings just the same way thoughts appear and and heart beating is happening and hair grow so that whole life spontaneously appearing as all the forms is capable of stepping out from that conceptual thinking and seeing it as an object as another object in manifestation in the like the way Buddha told us that emptiness is vibrating into forms that very emptiness can realize itself as the background on which it makes manifests the forms of itself so the awakening doesn't really ever apply to the me or to the mind the mind never wakes up the mind is a stream of thoughts they mechanical they are like codes in the computer how the program of code in the computer can wake up the mechanical thinking cannot wake up and the I the entity that we were conditioned to believe that we are is basically a stream of thinking so the I is the body I'm that old or that young or that ugly or that stupid or that beautiful whatever those are just ideas and that set of ideas constitute the entity and that entity is being embodied or is being identified with this idea this set of idea or this made of past experiences entity can never ever realize the truth because it is mechanical dead set of thoughts so the thoughts cannot wake up it makes no sense so now the only thing that is to realize the truth is the truth itself and the truth itself doesn't really need to wake up the life doesn't need to wake up it is functioning perfectly well it is it knows how to pump the blood it knows what to do it it knows how to do the seeing the hearing it doesn't need to wake up but it may it may happen this way that the veil of conceptual thinking drops off and the world is not being interpreted through the conceptual thinking anymore but is for what it is like thoughts are seen for what they are when I see the thought the idea oh there is no separation how wonderful is that how am I gonna experience this and I got excited about it and now I see oh no it's just it's just a thought it's nothing in it it's just a thought now the life realizes that this idea is not to be embodied it's not to get excited and high on it same as idea oh I'm not good enough I'm not worthy of love or whatever it's just a thought like who cares it's just a thought now it's not the thought that knows that this is a thought that's the pure aware or the pure knowingness the pure knowing this aware or being conscious of the content of it so when the thought is recognized by us and thought it's not the thought doing the recognizing because thought is dead totally out of consciousness thought being conscious and the showing Thought is just, it's like a writing, like words or code or writing.

So the thought doesn't have any capacity. We could say it's dead, but really nothing is dead, like, yes, everything is life, life manifesting in forms. But for the sake of pointing, okay. Just a little bit of movement outside. Okay, now add something. All right. When I kick it off, as usual, I don't, can't teach you anything, I can't tell you anything, I can only point, or can't speak, speak, what is it? You can't speak to anybody with your voice. Yeah, can't, I'm not the body, or you're not the body, or not the mind. Tell you all that, people think it's a lot of jargon. But it's not, when you look into it, you'll see the basic truth behind it all.

There's nobody that can ever teach you. If it's totality, if it is a one, there's nobody that can teach you anything, or tell you anything, and not speaking to anybody, not speaking to any mind, that's the other one. You know? When you realise that that body, mind, entity, when you investigate it, they're just patterns, shapes and forms that are appearing in the manifestation also. So, then you might recognise the futility of seeking. No, you can't become or be anything you are. You can't be anything you are. You can't be anything you are. You are already that. The seeking is the problem. It's not a matter of becoming, trying to become something, it's a matter of discarding all the concepts and ideas and things we've taken on board and believed in without question.

A little bit of questioning, it all falls apart and lifts what we call the natural state, as in nature. Not some conceptual conceived idea or body, mind, entity, but just as it is in nature. It's not a matter of becoming, trying to become something, it's a matter of discarding all the concepts and ideas and things we've taken on board and believed in without question. That tree out there is functioning naturally, and effortlessly, and the flowers around it, and the clouds moving around the sky, it's all functioning naturally. Same with your breathing, your heart beating, your hair and fingernails growing, it's all a natural functioning. So, it's not a matter of becoming something, it's a matter of discarding all the concepts and ideas and images that you've had.

Throw them out. The idea of a mind even. Nobody can show me a thing that's not a mind. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I'm just a remain not a mind. That's how I think of a mind. And when you investigate, there's no such thing apart, as mind apart from thought. And when you investigate thought, which thought it has any substance or any reality. None of it. That'll, to me. I want to leave.

Carry on what you're... Okay maybe you could tell us about the mask, the persona, because nobody can say it better than you do. Who can talk about a mask? Can a mask talk about itself? Yeah. Yeah, yeah. That's what they call it, that's where the word persona comes from. Persona meaning the mask, an ancient language. Latin. Latin, the mask. So we've got this mask of identity upon ourselves, a conceptual image. So we put on that pure presence awareness and seemingly separate it and isolate it into a persona. And we take this persona or ego to be real. Investigate that and you'll see there's nothing there.

And it's the ego that's the cause of all your problems, the belief in an ego, a self-center, or a me, or an I, whatever you like to call it. But there is no such thing as mind, even. Show me a thing called mind, have a look and see for yourself. And when you express it you say, my mind. Who are you talking about? Who's mind is it? You say, my house, my car, my coat. You know you're not the house, car, or coat. Maybe you're not the mind either. It needs to be looked at and seen. So this thing we call mind is just a vibrating pattern of it.

We relate everything to the mind. But there is no such thing as all. It's just a matter of thoughts, ideas, and images which are happening, appearing. And we take them on board because we never question taking it to be real. And then for this conceptual persona, this is the ego. And then we take it to the mind. And then we take it to the mind. Look at this mask we've got on. They're mine. Me or mine. How can totality divide itself or express as me and mine? I'm not talking to anybody. I'm not talking to any mind. I can't teach you anything. I can't tell you anything.

How can one shadow picture on the screen talk to another shadow picture and tell it something? Look at that mirror behind you. It's full of reflections. And one of those reflections asks the other reflection what it's thinking or what it's thinking. saying it can't. One reflection each reflection is a fresh and new expression in that mirror. And it couldn't, there can be no reflections outside of the mirror. And the difference between the mirror and the reflections in it, and this we talk about, the mirror needs something outside itself to reflect in. But all this that's going on right in this immediacy is taking place in that immediacy as that essence, seemingly vibrating into different patterns, shapes and forms.

And the pattern, shapes and forms are Maya. And they tell you that's all in the different texts and different scriptures. Maya is delusion, they tell you. It's a phenomenal manifestation. Look up your dictionary and see, look up the word phenomena. It's that which appears to be. So all this you, me and everything else is appearing or seeming to be. When you investigate, though it's seemingly very real, solid and substantial, put that body under a microscope. See if you can find a static point anywhere in the universe. So everything that we're going to do in the future is going to be static. And every cell in it is suffused with that intelligence energy.

And that is what you are. I call it that, that's a label we put it on. That's not energy. Anyway, that's enough. Thank you. Take it from there. You go on. Yes, so the idea of being a separate person or the mask or the ego or being the mind or being the body, is... It feels wrong when we say, that okay the world is not real it is just my illusion of phenomena is made of atoms they're all empty but it feels even more wrong when I say I don't exist like what what a nonsense of course I exist yeah but you know I as the individual I as the persona the mask the mask of identity of personality or the ego I'm not real I come on I do feel very real to myself I feel that I am I feel that I exist that's a mistake we make you say it's not real it's a pattern shape and form that's not real the actuality is the one reality is appearing shape shaping patting and everything but the pattern shapes and forms are not not real they're just shadow pictures on the screen the screen the basic screen whichever they are I think appears that's the one substantial thing is it it's really got no substance or any independent nature but that's all there is there's nothing you can postulate outside of the space like awareness nothing at all so it's all appearance it's all phenomenal appearances not seemingly real real in its essence but not as it appears the one reality yes and nobody's trying to tell you that you don't exist you have a happened world and in that moment you're like who am I how I'm this in the past what you're should I be to myself I'm part of the Alliance and part of multi system of your life for the rejuvenation of my customized exactly how you say you know as a human being if I'm there from an nies perspective and if of today each like from previous life we do not have chaos it's just like each our existence is within each of us if you start to notice quickly that every single one of you is being different from each other again that's what we don't know that's what Maria Shea and I just did a lot of work on the lonely mind and to what exactly this reminds us it's just what we are Yeah, I know that.

Like, gosh, this is not a belief. This is not the idea. This is not a thought. The fact of existence is not an idea. It's not something that I was told that I'm alive or I exist. No, it's inherent sense of being here, of being present, is something that is there for sure. Like, I can't deny it. But now, on top of that sense of presence or that awareness of being, I put the concept. I am is the absolute ultimate truth. But I am body is a lie. I am a mask of personality. That's a lie. I am a person or the ego or the entity.

I'm separate than you or separate from the space. That's a lie. So this is about finding out, rather than taking out, interesting ideas and trying to think your way through, embodying or experiencing those ideas. It is about dropping the ideas and figuring out what is truth, what is the true, without the thought, without the idea that I am this or that. I am? Sure. Nobody can deny it. And even if they deny it, they have to be first to say I am not. They have to exist to say I don't. So it's undeniable. Now, what I am, that's a different story. And now it feels like when we are talking about the conceptual image or the ego or the mask, we're saying that this is a bundle of thoughts, of concepts, of past experiences and past thoughts.

Like I'm a woman because I was told I'm the woman. I was a girl before, but whatever. But everything that we learned, and we are learning, and we accumulated in these files of the computer that are here in the memory, and we relate to memory, that is everything that we learned, that we know, that's the conceptual image. But there is another component to it. There is an emotional component. Like not only I'm set of thoughts, not only I'm description, if I believe I'm the image, I'm description of the looks of the body or the predominant likes and dislikes of the mind, but I'm also preoccupied with the story of me.

I'm identified with the story of me. And the story of me is more important than any other story. I will spend 90% of time working and roaming around the story about me. And if I find the moment of compassion, it will be only because I happen to naturally relax to the little break of the me, of the obsession about me. What is going to happen to me tomorrow? What they think about me? What am I going to do if I run out of time? What am I going to do if I run out of money or health or age or whatever? So that identification with the story, the story is a bundle of thoughts.

The conceptual image is made of past experiences and conditioning. And identification with the story brings back the complete certainty of my own existence with and makes it identical with the story about me, with what I am. So now, my certainty of existence becomes identical with the body, which can see, hear, taste, touch, smell. So now I am the body and I am seeing. Now I am the mind and I am thinking. So that sense of presence put on that jacket of the body-mind and it thinks itself to be the other. The basic life sense of presence believes itself to be the other, the separate, the vehicle through which it expresses and us which it expresses.

But is that really true? Can I be the other? Can I be the body? Can I separate myself from everything else that is around me? Well, I can't. Because the body is made of the elements from which the whole manifestation is made. We can say from atoms and subatomic particles and everything else is also atoms, subatomic particles, which are not even particles. They are fields of probability. They are waves of energy. But we can also look at it in an ancient way, that they are elements. Like there is space in which the body appears. There is air that the body is living on. Without the air, the body doesn't last.

And that air is completely exchanging. I can't breathe in and out the same air twice. It's on the move all the time. Water is being... 80% of the mass is water, plus the water is being given in various forms, in food, in water, in whatever. The matter from the body is from which it is built. We could say it's the... are the atoms. And we could say it's the food that is being transformed in the whole machinery to different bones and muscles and whatever. So it isn't really separated in any way. The separation that we perceive comes only from the learning process. Like the baby is looking out the world and everything is just totally un-separated.

It's undistinguishable from anything else. It takes few months for the baby to start recognizing familiar faces. And it takes another few months to learn that those faces are actually not appearing and disappearing from the field of awareness, but they exist somewhere out there and they come and go in the linear way. Because the brain is being conditioned. So the way we perceive the world is from early learning. And we pick out through the attention, through how we tune the eyes to actually see separate objects. And that's wonderful. That's why the whole... What a ride! What a beautiful dream! Like if not for the... It's just unthinkable how magnificent it is that the capacity to seeing, to see separate objects, to hear separate sounds, to experience separate experiences, tastes, touch, smell, balance.

That's the magnificence of the whole expression. If you didn't have that vehicle, the body, how could it be expressed? Exactly. So you as life, if you drop off the idea of being separate object that is looking for the way home, you as life, out of love, love for being, express as the being in the variety of forms and give yourself the being that can transmit and receive and interact with the being in other forms. The space has a being. The bodies have the being. The carpet and the curtains, they all have the being. And this is all one being vibrating into different forms. Vibrating into sounds, into light, into x-ray, microwaves.

They're all waves. They're all vibration. It's a different vibration, one life, one basic essence or on the level of energy, one field of probability. There's no... Well, the distinguishing comes from the mind. Again, this is the machinery that interprets the world, that labels everything. And through the labeling and assuming an existence of things, it actually creates and receives those things. That's what happens when you actually see the play as the... not the player, as the space. If you understand that without the conceptual image of being isolated and separate, you actually see yourself playing the dance as life. So it isn't embodying the idea and trying to see it, trying to get into it and land it and imagine how would it be to actually see everything.

It isn't about that. This is what happens when you stop talking about that idea. Reinforcing the idea that our gardener is working. If that idea is dropped off, the space of thinking clears up. There is no noise, mental noise going on that is labeling everything all the time. There is no trying going on, trying to grasp it or trying to understand it. In that relaxed field of not trying, life is going on just like this. And just like this, there is seeing happening. There is a lot of things being seen, and there is a process of seeing. And there is no need to reinforce the idea that now, in that seeing, there are forms that are separate, and there are seers that are separate.

There's no need for that. That requires thinking, conceptualizing. If that thinking is pushed aside, there is just seeing. What a miracle. Nobody does the seeing. Nobody really, really understands how the life does the seeing. We can check how the equipment works. We can build the cameras that are kind of modeling the same thing. But how the life does the miracle of seeing is completely unknown. And putting it in thoughts is almost like murdering the miracle. Like, leave it a mystery. And same with everything. Same with hearing. Same with touch, taste. Now, if there is no thinking, those sensory experiences of the mystery of the world, leave your breath, take your breath away.

Just leave you here. You just see them. And if there is quiet here, there is no idea about escaping this moment. Like, oh, it shouldn't be that way. I have to think. I have to think. I have to think. I have to think. I have to think. about what I do next, or go, what am I going to do tomorrow, what is going to happen to me. Without all that self-obsession, life shines forth and is juicy and is always alive. It is constantly changing. Nothing stays the same. There are no sounds that stay the same. There are no sights. The attention is smoothly traveling and looking at itself.

The world is actually embracing itself with no idea that there is anything that needs to be different, that needs to be changed or addressed. There is natural relaxation and this is the natural state. This is the state in which the cat is sitting there on the carpet completely relaxed with the senses open, his ears are open, he's got this fur, the longer hair. Every movement of the air is reported. He's aware of every piece of the skin on the the body and he can smell things and he can even see when I'm looking at him he's kind of sensing it all and that sensory experience experiencing of the being is so delicious if it's not clouded or veiled by the conceptualizing that comes on top of it that nothing really needs to be different nothing needs to be changed and there is no need for any other form of eternal bliss because this deliciousness of being is ever fresh it's not that oh yeah okay I felt it once I know what it is now give me something else no it's it it doesn't exist in the past it's only here now this moment is only here now this sensations are only available right now the sense of being the pre sense of being is the background on which sensations are playing out so sensations are called content of the moment, content of seeing, content of hearing, content of tasting, touching, smelling, even content of thinking if there is a thinking going on.

They are the content. But deliciousness of being is prior to the content. This is where there is no veil, there is no interpretation going on, the mind is quiet or there is complete, I don't know and I don't care, that sort of natural state. This is called natural state. And this is the state to which non-duality is pointing. The state that is there always, already. The state is not even a state, it's a stateless state because it's not something that you achieve through certain practices or exercises, not something that you arrived at. It is prior to the content. It is prior to states. It's like the surface of the ocean, there are states there.

The ocean can be calm or it can be stormy or the waves can be five meters or 15 meters high. But at the depth, at the bottom of the ocean, there's quiet. It's just water, it's just wetness. That's the natural state. Whatever appears on that state, the emotional kind of disturbance or the physical pleasure or... Intellectual contemplation, that's the surface. But the state of being, the depth of being is there already. It can never... It can't ever be taken away. This is the knowing that I am. So that knowing that I am is what the non-duality is pointing to. And again, on the beginning of the search, when we get high on the ideas, I want to experience oneness.

I want to experience the mystical union. The mystical union with the universe and achieve the great ecstasy of eternal bliss. Yeah, what a wonderful idea. Go on drugs. I mean, it's not going to last. It's not going to last. But what non-duality is saying that even if there is, and of course there are pleasurable states. I mean, come on, chocolate cake is a pleasurable state. And then the bliss is also orgasm. They're all beautiful. They're all beautiful, pleasurable states. And there's nothing wrong with them. But they're not lasting. They are just momentary coming and going content of the awareness. So if there is such a thing as a bliss and you're not experiencing it now and you hope to experience it tomorrow or in 10 years or in 10 seconds, it's not worthy because it's not here now.

So it is coming and going. And if it comes, it will go. It's temporary. It's just a firework. It's just a chocolate cake. So it doesn't matter. It's really the idea. And I was attracted to those ideas 10 years ago. Enlightenment was an eternal bliss and a mystical union. And this is what I was after. Absolutely. The I, the me, the persona that felt inferior, that felt that void inside that I'm totally unlovable. I want a relief from that pain of being contracted and being shy and being worthless. Of course. The opposite would be the ecstasy because that was suffering. It was absolute extreme suffering.

So relief from the suffering when the idea of being separate entity that is someone that is sitting in the body, living in the body and running the show and switching on the seeing and beating the heart and growing the hair. If there is someone there and I am that one, then of course, you know, I will be preoccupied with myself all the time. But if that one, if you look within and there is nothing there, there is no one who does the seeing. There is no one who does the thinking. They're just objects floating in the awareness. They're just thoughts floating in the awareness. And this transmitter receiver tunes into certain thoughts like, yeah, there are certain food preferences or music preferences in this particular set of patterns.

But they're not my preferences. They're just set of patterns. They're just set of preferences that are conditioned with that personality pattern. But I'm not the personality. This is my speaker. This is my binoculars or my cameras. This is the way life is having a glimpse looking at itself. This is a dream character looking around and interacting in the play, in the dream. And it knows as the character. It doesn't know anything because it's dead. But as life. Life knows itself through the glimpses of getting its reflection in the other. Emptiness, it gets reflected in the forms. Because oneness can never ever know itself. Because this one, it can't move out.

It can't even know what it is. It can't even know that it is one. Unless there is the other. Unless there is a reference point. So the knowing, the duality came about as a play. This is a play. This is a ride. It's just a ride. Like Bill Hicks used to say, the comedian. It's just a ride. You can enjoy the ride if you don't take it too seriously. Because if you do, oh my God. You want to add anything? There was a Tibetan Buddhist book out, written, oh God knows when, way back in the day. I don't know if it was Padmasabh Bhava or something.

Called Self-Realization Through Seeing with Naked Awareness. It's a book. Now you don't need to read the bloody book if you're looking to that title. What's naked awareness? What does naked mean? Undressed, bare, left as it is. So recognize that this awareness that we're, nobody was unaware in this room right now. Everybody's aware. Don't add any, well you know, you, I can't say do or don't. But recognize there's nothing needed to be added. God. And Nathan Gill. You might have heard of him. He's dead now. He had a little bit on things. He says, Bob Adams put a book out. What's wrong with right now if you don't think about it?

He says you don't need to read the book. It's all in the title. And it is if you have a look at it. Yeah. Again, naked awareness and stop there. What's wrong with right now? Don't think about it. And naked awareness. God. You can't say do or don't. And it's only the thinking is the problem. And it's not a problem if it's understood. And you want to understand that it's just ways of expressing in different words, you can think as much as you like. But you're not bound into it. Recognizing the word's not the real. The description's not to describe. The map's never the territory.

Recognize those things. So it's very simple. And all you have to do is read it and then you're done. It's not all to describe. It's not the word. It's not the image. It's not the description. It's not the idea. It's not the word. It's not the vision. It's not the idea. It's not the truth. It's not the idea. is not to describe, the map's never the territory. Recognise those things. So it's very simple and always and ever there. But we miss out on them. We try to acquire, become or get something because we're always relating to my self. Instead of seeing the self as the one self that's patterning, shaping, forming, expressing, it's everything, we've broken down to me and mine, my self, my car, my house, my body, my mind.

When you investigate those things you see that you're not advising. Yes, so basically what it is to be recognised and what it is to be realised moment to moment is to see things for what they are, to see thoughts for what they are. Like the idea I am the body is an idea. That's not fact. That's not reality. If there's idea that I am inferior, well that's again idea, that's not the fact. Yeah but it feels, you know, it feels, it feels the way that it feels contracted. Yes, that's a feeling. The feeling, recognise thought as a thought, feeling as a feeling. The feeling that I am contracted on, I'm in the body is just a feeling.

So who knows who is aware about this feeling? Who is conscious of that feeling of contraction? That will be pure life. So moment to moment there is awareness, aware-ing or life, being aware, consciousness, consciousness-ing. Like being… knowing and the content. So whatever comes behind the idea I am or the experience I am, the experience of existence is gonna be a concept. Like I am, that's all I know. But if I don't put any concept behind it, then what am I? Am I the body? No, that's a concept. Am I the sense of inferiority? No, that's a feeling. Am I the person? No, that's an idea or mental image.

So I am, but what I am, where I am, it feels like, okay, I'm located here, but do I end here? Like if I don't assume the shape of the body, yes, I exist and yes, I'm here, but where does the here end? If I don't see, let's say I look up and I don't see my body or I close my eyes and I don't see my body and I completely take away the idea that this body has certain size and it exists in certain bubble and not outside of it. If I drop those thoughts, then the idea I am and the idea I am here doesn't end, doesn't end.

It doesn't mean that it extends to the whole universe because the universe is an idea. It is an idea. Like you could try it, just close your eyes and see it as if you had no idea. You had no idea what, where do you begin and where do you end? Like totally just being with no form or shape or distance. And with the eyes closed, the space disappears. We need the eyes open to have the further and closer. This all comes with the senses. When the mind is quiet, the time disappears. So if we sit without the idea of space and without the idea of time, whatsoever inside or outside of further or closer, nothing, there is just pure, plain being that has no beginning and no end.

And I am that being. When I open my eyes, the mental images and concepts start coming in. When I start thinking, the idea of time, of future and past start coming in. And reinforce the reality. And that's beautiful. The reality is to be totally loved and appreciated the way it is, how real it feels, how beautiful, how magnificent it is. But, again, it is to be recognized as the ideas, as the eyes giving you the sense of space, the mind giving you the sense of time, the time-space coming really only through the conceptual interpretation of the reality. Of the plain being. Through the conditioning in which that plain being divided itself into different forms of being.

So that is not to be unseen. It's wonderful to see space. It's wonderful to see objects. Actually, we don't see space, but we see the objects. It's wonderful to see seeming separation and know it for what it is. It's just like at night when we are dreaming. We go to sleep. and we create the body the body which is dreaming is lying flat on bed it doesn't go anywhere but the body that I have in the dream is moving about is waving hands I don't see the face usually few times I saw it but it wasn't that face was different but usually the body is moving sometimes the body is flying sometimes the body is falling sometimes the body is like something is chasing it and can't move is this this nightmares but there is a body and there is a world in the dream I'm closing my eyes and the and the and the brain is or whatever its life is expressing through the neuronal flashes of the of the information beats and creating the reality that exists only in the dream and it feels totally real it feels solid the mountains feel like they have been there for millions of years the buildings you can climb on the mountains you can climb on the mountains you buildings they real but you wake up and where is it where all that reality disappeared where the body that was moving about disappeared the body was lying on bed so the world that we kind of experience in the dream and sometimes people well not everyone remembers the dreams but if they do remember dreams they can experience 510 dreams a night like 510 different realities a night that's how creative that is and that's why I'm so excited to be here today and I'm so excited to be here today that this series called just dreaming photos over here literally that is just a dream for that感 flutter life essence is but they're all nothing they're all made of just like this one just like this one which is so difficult to recognize because we feel oh yeah that was just a dream but this is real yeah but in the dream I thought that was just three that was real so it is the analogy that is worthy of looking at how real the dream feels when we are asleep and how unreal it becomes when we wake up because like hey ready I feel like I have an idea and I know it's true what I'm feeling when you sticky what I am so真 steam蓮 sue that night and it's a sweating dream when I sleep us because it's comfortable to connect to the culture of the dream it because we have something real of the nature we have we have something real to believe and remember yesterday that a journey we've had and we have Because in the same way, we can't really wake up from the dream, but we can wake up to the dream.

We can realize that this is a dream, that this, the dream character here and the dream world there, and waking up to it, knowing it for what it is, makes it light, makes it cheerful, makes it easy. It doesn't necessarily mean that the dream will disappear and I'll be just plain nothing. It will at times, yes, because, you know, I'm closing my eyes and the dream disappears very easily. But the dream comes up again and the waking up comes up again to the dream and from the dream when I close my eyes. So the invitation here is just to recognize things for what they are.

If you think you are the sense of me-ness here, the entity that is contracted and that is in resistance, you are not. This is just a feeling in the body. Because when I adopt the thought that I'm unworthy, that very thought will change the chemistry of the body, will start moving chemicals, the hormones in the body, will start producing cortisol, will feel terrible, will put the blood out of the inner organs to hands and legs, create fight-flight effect. That's what believing in the thought does on the physical level. So of course, if I believe I'm the person and I'm inferior, there will be an emotional component, there will be a physical component, there will be different chemistry in the body.

So it feels like, oh my gosh, of course that's true, of course that's me. See, this is all real. But who knows about that? This is again the moment when this is the content of awareness. There is a knowing about the body, about the thought and about the emotional component and the physical component of that. What the body is reflecting in the thought. So this one is all being known, being witnessed. Witness is a difficult word because very often that idea of witness brings up the kind of, during the meditations or different practices, we are formulating or creating another fictitious entity that is the witness, which is witnessing the ego or the content of the body.

This is also another mental image. There is no such thing as a witness. It's just an image. But witnessing the process of being aware, awareing, knowingness doesn't need the agency. It doesn't need anyone who would do it. I mean, same as seeing. The seeing is happening. It doesn't need the belief in entity that does the seeing. Nobody can do the seeing. Nobody knows how it is happening. Or anything at all that is no activity in life requires the medium or the agency for the life, someone between the pure life and the body or whatever. It doesn't, it feels like there is a person that is taking decisions or making choices.

But really what is going on is the idea of the person making decisions and choices. There's no one here doing anything. There is no dwarf or Santa Claus sitting inside and pulling strings. The body knows what to do. The body knows how to change the cells or grow the hair. There's no entity doing it. And there is no entity thinking thoughts. Because if there was one, there would be only positive, happy thoughts. Nobody would think thoughts that I'm unworthy. Like, come on. So if, if the thoughts are coming up and I'm not thinking them and I can't stop thinking them, then obviously even thinking is not in my hands.

And if thinking, if thoughts are not in my hands, how can I make decisions? Decisions are thought based. If I, if I have two thoughts, one to go to cinema and one to go to theater and I'm choosing one over the other, who is really choosing? That thought came really strong and really colorful and really appealing. And that one came blunt. There's no choice required. It's the obvious thing that is happening. The thoughts already contain everything that enables them to move about and leave. Just like everything in the appearance is alive. Just like the cuts don't take any decision or choices or don't have any conceptualization, if I give them two types of food and they will pick one that is, they resonate more.

So life is really easy without any agency that is coming in between. And when everything is naturally by that life, recognized for what it is, thoughts are thoughts, feelings are feelings, emotions are emotions, physical sensations are sensations. And that's it. That's all what is ever going on. The knowingness, the awareness of the content and the awareness of the awareness, the knowing about the knowing, the knowing is going on and it is self aware. It is self conscious. I've given them a chance to ask questions. That's what I thought it was. We're going over to them again. Oh, really? Yeah, you're right. Thank you. OK, so please join in if you have any comments, any doubts or any questions or anything at all that you would like to add or share or.

Most of what we're doing here is looking at what's happening, noticing it and having it immediately self-evident. There's obviously a difference between manual noticing it, which is called experience and then being immediately obvious. In other words, enlightenment is something that happens. And what is that exactly? What's the mechanical difference between the sense of being in presence, the sense of being localized and not being so? If that is the way it is at all, I'll ask you that. So, in other words, Yeah. The sense of being localized goes entirely or is still there in combination with that as the field at the same time or what's the actual difference?

I'm going to jump in from here. If you're not relating it to a localized point, where is it going on? But the sense of being localized is a subtle kind of thinking or is it the sense of you being over there? Is that the result of subtle thinking or is that called natural? It's natural because is there an over there, an air when you look into it properly? I can see there is a flat screen, it's a flat field. Sort of. It appears to be. But there's also the sense of being positioned in space. I'm here, you're over there. Is that sense of being localized, is that natural?

It's conceptual. When you look at it, is there any separation anywhere? Appears to be so. It's part of the functioning, really. It's like if you didn't have the pair of eyes that are looking from certain angle at certain things, the functioning would be much, much more challenging. Like the same way animals are built. You know, when the cat is jumping on the tree, it needs this sort of a setup of the machinery to use to be able to function. But it is not a problem. You know, if you recognize that this set of, you know, this angle through which you are looking, using the body is helping the body function.

But you as life are localized everywhere in everybody. You have different experiences through different body. But for the functioning of this one, yes, there is a sense of locality here. Because otherwise, how would you find the door? How would you get out here? How would you move? Like if you have the car, you also have sense of locality and it's a little bit bigger so you don't, you know, smash the cars going on the side. Like I'm driving a motorbike is much smaller, is much easier because it's almost the shape of my body car is bigger. So the sense of location is part of natural functioning and it's not a problem.

And it is conceptual. It is assumed it is coming from the mental interpretation. It needs to be recognized. But it's not a problem. Is that fair? It'll still appear to be so. The difference is if you know the truth about it, you're not bound into it. Everything will still appear separate and part dualistic and all of it. But when you investigate and see there's only the one essence, patterning, shaping, forming, expressing, you can't direct it to any locality or place at all. When you say I am here, what are you talking about? The body. Can you? I can see both. Have you looked into the body?

Can you find a point in that body? Can you find a point? What is the center of that body? There's no sense of the self. No. No. So you can't really. But it appears to be so. There's a difference between dualism and the conceptualized. So dualism is the idea that when people come to this making this kind of thing, it's about noticing cause of experience, what experience essentially is. And yet other people describe enlightenment as something falling away. So what's going on there? Is there something that falls away or what? There's still the relationship. Who's it falling away from or to? Again, we go back into the conceptualized.

Can you pinpoint a place in this universe where you can say the center of the universe is? Any point or any spot at all? And the Earth's rolling around the Sun now. Where is, what point is it at right now? Is there a center in space to measure it against? The relativity is falling away. It's the same way as. There's a sense of being a person, I mean a sense of being a body. Yeah. The body is at the same time, there's all experience and fear. Enlightenment as I can describe in terms of something falling away. Is that the case? Or is it something to wait for?

You know what I'm saying. It's really a recognition. Like, you know, when you were a child, you might have believed in Santa Claus and the Santa Claus was real. And now did you kill the Santa Claus when you realized that it was a fiction? It was a phantom. It was the myth that was an idea that, you know, that was supposed to bring more of a magic into the childhood. So this falling away, it's really falling away of nothing real. Like if you think you were a Santa Claus or a little dwarf in here that runs the show and suddenly you see, oh, my God, there's nothing there.

So the falling away is really nothing falling away. It's just like a house of cards that is completely disappearing because it was a mirage. It is a rainbow there inside. There is an idea. It's not true. The concept of I must be whatever. Because we never anyone asked me the question, is there a sense of self? I deep dove and it goes to that no meaning making and there is nothing there. I get no sense of self. Every time that question is asked, it's not there. I've never seen anything like it. Other people talk about a sense of self that they feel. And I think that might be more what they're saying, some thought, because I think that comes in after, like when the meaning making pops in, just next, and then people might kind of imagine a sense of self.

But I think this energy walks through that door without me thinking about it. And no sense of self is attached to that whatsoever. But I think some people look and they're, oh, yeah, I feel a sense of self here. I don't get that one. I never had to see that one there. I think diving is just not meaning making. It's not there. It's not located. And I'm pretty sure this energy just goes that way. And I don't think there's a sense of self. But then there might be some thought about, oh, how big is this car right now? You know, there might be some sort of thought.

And also, you know, pain, the body will experience pain and will only experience pain of this particular body and not the other body. So that gives you some sense of location, which is also kind of functionality. Like, you know, you don't if you identify with the body and you say, this is my pain, then it is a sense of location is really, really strong. But if you understand that body is experiencing pain, but you are the awareness, that's not a problem. Sometimes some thoughts pops in pre where is that pain coming from? It's part of the functioning, isn't it? Well, that's what I think. The sense of the selfhood of this is me, that's you.

So I feel the pain when I pinch myself. You don't feel that. Yeah, that's something that arises in in awareness as a part of their operating system. But then again, we go to sleep. That sense of selfhood disappears. And in the dream, it can be quite different. The idea of the self and what we are in the dream is different to the concept. We pull on again when we wake up. You've got the flat ocean. And energy stirs and moves and causes a little wave to them. Then another wave comes behind it. There's a wave behind us saying, I'm not that wave. When they're both water.

Who's doing the other differentiation? Who differentiates it here? They believed in entity. Sometimes it's described that way. It's just a pure, it's a clean flat. There's no differentiation at all. So I was wondering, I mean, is that the way it works? Does the sense of differentiation fall away entirely? Or was it known in combination with awareness of oneself? Well, whenever you're embodied, you're going to think, unless you get brain damage or something, you're going to think in the same way. And the dual pairs of opposites, good, bad, pleasant, painful, happy, sad, you'll always think that way. And the difference is the whole scripture saying is know the truth.

And the truth will set you free. You're free of the belief in all this division. There is no division. There never was or never will be. Though it appears to be so. What are you? You're the screen in which it all appears on, which is that emptiness, silence and emptiness, stillness. And that's not contaminated or corrupted by anything that appears in it. And things will continue to appear. But you're not going to, knowing you're not that, you're going to believe in it again. It happens here all the time. See, things are going on and I'll say things and do things. Where before it meant a lot doesn't mean anything, no, because it's basic screen.

It's always there. Don't have to go and look for it or try and find it. You know that every thought, feeling and emotion takes place on it. And it's never been contaminated or corrupted by anything that appears in it. As you experience it, is it only the screen? Is it a combination of the screen and the illusion of the national debt? Have a look at that mirror behind you. What do you see? What do you see in the mirror? Colours. Reflections. Don't you see reflections in it? All sorts of bodies, minds and everything is reflected in the mirror. You can't say they're not there. But go up and try and grab a reflection out of the mirror.

You can't. You can't say they're not there. You can't say they are there. But they still appear to be. And you know, when you investigate, you know there couldn't be a reflection if it didn't have a reflecting surface to appear in. And that reflecting surface is the mirror. Is that mirror ever corrupted or contaminated by any of the reflections? Reflections come and go in it. And the thing with the mirror, the mirror needs something outside itself to reflect in. But with this world, everything is in it. There's nothing outside of it. But there's just, as I pointed out, phenomena, definition of phenomena. That's what the appearance is only.

Vibrating patterns of energy that are appearing real. Also that idea, what was this idea that everything is undifferentiated? See, this is one of those beautiful ideas that I started the meeting with. We hear the magnificent idea. Oh, my God, there is no separation. Everything is unlocated and undifferentiated. How am I going to imagine that idea and embody it? Like he, Krishnamurti used language. Everyone is using different, slightly different language of pointing. And if we try to follow the language and your meaning of undifferentiated is quite obviously different than Bob's meaning of undifferentiated. And he's explaining a different way and Krishnamurti is explaining a different way.

And this is we don't really have much choice. You do come up with the idea and we do come up with trying to explain the ideas and this primordial error coming up that, OK, I love the idea. I'll try to imagine how it feels and I will try to compare if I'm feeling this way yet or not yet, or how can I modify my feeling to actually embrace what they're pointing at? This is never going to happen this way because the the realizing the natural state is when the mental process is actually stop when the comparing stop, when trying to imagine what he meant or where is the idea pointing when that stop.

And of course, questions are totally valid and are absolutely welcome. Yes, something does fall off and something that they call location. Some other some other people call it self obsession. Some other call it the mask of persona. It's the mirage that falls off and some yet other comes that, you know, the whole mental process is relating to the me, they fall off or the or everything is undifferentiated in a way that whether this body has toothache or this body has toothache. Well, it doesn't really matter. No commentary goes on. There is no idea that, oh, no, this one should be good and some it should happen to somebody else.

That meant that differentiation goes off. The conceptualized differentiation goes off. But the seeing is happening because what they say, you are already that you are already in a natural state if you don't think so and you wait till the seeing will completely change and you will start seeing differently and you will start locating things differently or hear things differently, this is not how it happens because this state you already in, you are already that fully enlightened, pure life expressing through the body and as the body is nothing that you need to do to become what you already are because you are that. The only difference is that there is an idea that, no, I'm not that yet.

I have to do something to come back to my natural state. You have to stop doing something to come back. You have to stop trying to grasp it and imagine it and then you come back. But then it feels, yeah, but that's boring. That's nothing. Yeah, that's just like being an animal. Yeah, but that's it. On the beginning, it might feel this way because we are still interpreting and comparing it in the mind and mind give us such a thrill. The dreams, the dreams in the mind, such a thrill. So comparing to that, the bluntness of being kind of feels like, nah, I wouldn't be interested in this, but this is only initially when the mind is still involved.

But the more attention the rest of on itself, the more the mind steps out because for the mind, it is nothing, nothing boring bullshit. So I got to tell you, we try to grasp it. We grasp it with a concept and we fail. You're bound to fail because it's non-conceptual awareness. You can't grasp it with any concept. We look for the answer in the mind. The answer is not in the mind because that's all the mind does is conceptualize. All the concept is, is a mental construct. We're trying to grasp it with some mental construct and say, this is it. Go on forever. Just see it as it is.

Everything as it is appears to be you, me and everything else in this room. That's how it appears. But you can't put the label on it. There was a concept on them with any belief after that, but really energy of belief in them. That's the most disappointing moment when the mind is waking up from this beautiful, appealing ideas of there is something better, something bigger, something more profound and more pleasurable than this. No, it is just this. It is just this as it is. Now, what make it unpleasant? What make it unbearable? Only thinking. Bob mentioned the title of his book. What's wrong with right now if you don't think about it?

Like what is really wrong if you don't think about it? Yeah, but I should experience some fireworks. I should experience more pleasure. Well, only when you think about it. Oh, I should see things located in a different way. Only when you think about it, when you don't think about it, whatever is happening, even if there is pain in the body, but there is no idea that it shouldn't be there. There is nothing wrong. But hey, that's that's it. I mean, that's that's the enlightenment. Come on, what a scum. There's nothing. There's nothing here. Saying chop wood before. Now, before exactly chop wood after enlightenment, chop wood.

Yeah, chop wood, carry the water before and after. It's nothing really because it's a natural state. You sometimes describe the as kind of an event. So you just say it's you describe the no. All of it is. That's it. Yeah. It's something you have to be kind of. It was nothing. I was not saying it's important to do something that happens. Look, yes. The question that you originally asked only arises from someone that's still seeking. OK, and that someone that is still seeking is still looking for an answer. And the question that you're asking, it wouldn't matter. What anybody said, I don't give a shit who it is.

Krishnamurti, Jesus Christ, Nisargadatta, Bob, it won't matter. Whatever answer they give you is not going to be it. It's not. You'll get you'll get various different pointers and you'll get various different answers from everybody, the real question that I'd be posing to you is, have you looked closely? And try to identify who it is that's still asking that question? That's the only way the only way you're going to come to. That that you feel you is there to be had, if you like, the only way you're going to come to that is for you to disappear. Then when you disappear, all those questions disappear and the notion of being local, not separate, not separate, goes, like completely goes.

And then you are, or if you like, then there is the realization of the absolute. Is there a case of manually noticing that, or does that kind of thinking produce itself, or a way of itself, like a natural form of way? What do you have to notice manually? Look, it's natural. It's something that just happens by itself. So there's no you there that can do shit. Okay, that's pretty clear. But there's also awareness there. There's an intelligence there. It's got nothing to do with you. The idea of who we think we are anyway, when I say that. So the mere fact that you can be aware of thought processes that go on in you.

Go on in your mind. Okay, you can be aware of that. True. Yeah. Okay, so that awareness. I can see there's no person as such. But that's a sort of a manual noticing. You know what I mean? Right? That I can do this with all the contemplations and the raw sensory experience. But that's a sort of a manual activity of noticing. It is distinct from it. It's a different thing. Manual versus. But who's doing it manually? Right? But when you say that, it sounds like I'm noticing it or I switch a button. Just a phrase. It's a bit of a process of noticing as distinct from the quality being immediately self-evident.

What's the difference? I've noticed the self-evident. So like, basically, I'm here. I don't feel like I'm here. I don't feel like I've come here for any particular reason. It's just, there's a here-ness, right? Pointers come through. Some don't. Mostly it's just observation. Two days later, bang, there's an empty gap. Nothing's going on. And then there's like a little notion or a memory of a notion that was just there before. And a relevant pointer also pops up. All three of them are sitting there. And there's like a dropping. And sometimes on either side, like just the no thing. And then a belief, a little belief that was there after, not necessarily just before.

And then a belief, a little belief that was there after, not necessarily just before. And a pointer that seems relevant. And it just bundles up. And because it's not really sensory free will, it was just like, pop, pop, pop. Yeah. And also, that is, I think, what Taylor pointed out beautifully. The moment when there is no relating going on, the questioner dies out. There are no questions anymore. Because the moment when there is really, like Cliff was asking you, who is noticing? Or who wants to know? Who is having the questions? There is still some sort of a concern or the preoccupation with finding out the right answers.

So there is still some relating going on. There is still someone here who is curious. And that's beautiful. That is to be acknowledged. And that one who is curious and who wants to find the truth is the seeker. It's much more subtle in your case. You're not identifying with the body. You know there is nobody in the body. So it is coming to that level where it's really very, very subtle. Because ultimate falling off of that seeker means falling off of the seeking and means there are no questions. Like everything is absolutely obvious. And there is not even a temptation to put them in words.

It's not even a... So as long as you have questions, stay with them. Ask them. But see who is asking. Who is curious? Who wants to know? Who doesn't know yet? Because there is an idea that there is something that you don't know yet. What is it? Well, if the mind is inactive, like Xin Xin Ming says, stop talking and thinking, there is nothing you won't be able to know. Everything is obvious. It's known. It's just this. There is nothing else to be known. But then the mind comes with the questions, with the ideas. It's absolutely not to suppress the questions. Totally not. If they come up, my gosh, wonderful.

But you said there is noticing going on. The process of noticing. That's what you said. Now, that's all that's happening, the noticing or the seeing. When you say, I see, you've related to a subject. I see the... I see the words. There is a difference between... The words are all different. I know it is. Yeah, they are. Just give it your best shot. You're right. Just go for it. I just don't think manually noticing the distinction between raw sensory experience and the interpretation of it as structures and space and so on has distinct from the fact that it's being automatically described. So that... So I mean, that's like in new genius papers.

So you describe the whole thing as it's all built apart. Well, there's some time you have to do it. It's not nothing. But I'm just wondering what that actually is and what's the process that you like between going from manually noticing to actually going. Okay. So in my case, in my experience, the... The... The... The... The... The... The... The... The... The... The... The... The... The... The... The... The... The... The... The... The... The... The... The... The... The... The... The... The... The... The... The... The... The... The... The... The... The... The... The... The... The... The... The... The... The... The... The... The... The... not that description, no, I'm not the critic, I'm not...

That took a little while, yeah? The very, very... He's sitting really close, is the sense I get. He's sitting really close. The... I got stuck kind of where you are. It was kind of... There was this sense of, I understand, but I still feel like I'm here. I still feel... I see there's no one here, so... I know, I get it. But you still feel the habitual sense of being... Now, I can, saying I manually see past that, I can see that it's a 2D field. Yeah. But that's a manual... I understand. No, but I get it. I totally get that. I absolutely get that.

What's the difference? Or what's the process or the way, like, of going from that manual noticing to just being immediately... Okay, so that... What you're talking about in terms of the localised experience, okay? The reason that I was still experiencing that localised experience, what... The last little bit, the last little thing that that illusory self identity was hanging on to, and it was the last thing, the absolute last thing that I saw, last, yeah, was that it was hanging on to that sense of presence, that sense of awareness, that sense of aliveness. That's why I felt local. That's why I've still felt here, kind of, even though I knew I'm not the body, I'm not this, this, this, this.

I'm none of it. Yet. And that's what I saw. That's what I saw. And when I absolutely saw that, saw that. And it was just... You've just got to keep turning in. You've just got to keep turning in. No matter how many times it's that you think you've done it, in terms of trying to search for this self identity, yeah? And when you think you've done it, search again. Yeah. Because there'll still be something there. Absolutely. Whilst you're feeling localised, there's still an identity there. Yes. Yep. Still an identity. But... Self... About self-love, thinking, personally, Yes. It's not gross, um, Yes. simplistic thinking, I think.

Yes. Yes. Yes. I didn't see past it, but that seeing past it is still a manual thing I have to do to see it as distinctly. Yeah. Distinct from being... Yeah. Yeah. Okay. So just... Just turn in. Just... Not really, though. It's that built in... It's that built in afterwards Speak up, Tony. If you can come right back to the tiniest moment, you might be able to just catch... Just my... Yeah. But if you get down more to the micro, you might just see a moment where it just happened, and then a moment where you... that came in, I did that. A little ownership. I like this idea of...

I was thinking today driving here, someone was sending me text messages about... Speak up. Someone was sending me text messages about what I needed to do next week about this project. I think I've got to do that. Yeah, I'll ring them on Monday. Oh, if that doesn't happen, something else will happen. Um, oh, yeah, I've got to make sure that... Oh, golly, this is just a whole lot of thinking. I just need to get rid of this thinking. And then I think, oh, well, the thinkers... The thinkers have thought even, and then it all just disappeared. And... And that's... Maybe that's the moment of enlightenment that you talk about, or that people talk about, I don't know, that sudden realisation that the mind's creating the whole shebang, and that's all it is, you know?

It's my... That mind process is going on. I'm taking notice of it, thinking that there's some sort of whole lot of stuff I've got to do, and then thinking I don't need to think this. But that's just another thought. The thing that I'm thinking this is just my thought. So... And so is the question. Every question is also just a thought. Without the question, there is no problem. It's just another thought. In my case, it happened, um, complete desperation, depression, of a... of a breakdown. Okay? Now, we've all been there. Okay? And in that, you know, and I've been seeking for a long time, long time and like I've come to boxers before that and in that sensation of desperation whatever I'm not saying that that's the path that you need to take to it you know but for me that's how it works is that I recognized and was about I don't know 10 seconds 15 seconds maybe half a minute that there was no local there was no localization at all right and I've got fucking shit scared because when you when you see it when you that event that you're talking about it's actually no event it's nothing it's just like for me it happened like that so I've got to blame that I have to you know thank that you relationship breakdown in one way that you know and it was there for like I don't think there was no and it was just awesome was amazing just you know there's no we're all pointing to it right now okay so that's how it happened to me and then Wow like there's no localization and then I came back because you come back yeah into our you know you know I'm reinventing my music I've got a single out at the moment I've got to have Instagram photos all the time yeah like you know I'm inventing my duel yeah like it's happening all the time and I'm a yoga teacher I teach people all that stuff but that event whatever you want to call it was no event it was just you know something bad and you trying to come back to it no good no no it's there it's just there but But here I am, I teach yoga, whatever.

Now I teach no yoga, I call it no yoga. And they come to me and they pay money, I'm going, you're not the body, you're not the mind, you're not doing yoga. What are you doing here? And it's funny, it's a joke. But it's kind of like, what I'm trying to say is people get there in different ways. Uji was hardcore. And he tells it as it is. I read him first before I came to Agata. He's hardcore, he's brutal. I think you find yourself where you're meant to be. Yeah, he's brutal. He's extremely blunt. The things you're describing sometimes seem a bit further out than what's described in Agata.

My suspicion is that more fell away in Uji than what's described. That's just my sense of it. Fell away, you told everyone, what are you doing here? Go away. It's like Bob says, Bob says it in the same, I'm not telling you anything, you're not hearing anything, what are you doing here? But Uji was nicer with, you know, the English people, brutal with the Indian people. Yeah, yeah. I think it just comes down to how many moments you have regularly, you know, like, you can't say something like, oh, 99% of the time there's no meme-making factory at all. Then you probably could say, oh, I can be in the enlightened bracket now, it doesn't matter, it's not so meaningless.

And, you know, for me it'll be 1% or something, you know. Well, 1% is just for one sec. You know, these guys, some of them, you know, they're in the middle of the day, you know, so it's, you know, right up in the 90s. Gareth. Gareth. So, there was one second one, so I bent down to tie up my shoelace, and the whole lot just dropped for like a second, I was thinking, that's a factional second, because, oh, fuck, what was it for, that? Once it's recognised, which we're all pointing out, you know, it's recognised, then... That's it. It takes the sting out of the search, so-called.

Yeah. Thanks the Lord. I'm sorry? It takes the sting out of the search, because just those recognitions, and, you know, the questions that are asked, you know the answer anyway, you know, because it's all, the answer's all evident, so it's... Don't worry. Gareth, can I just say something? Yeah? You're everything that you're hearing here right now. Absolutely everything. What I intuit with you is you need to look for yourself. Now, from this point forward, stop trying to get answers from people. Knock it off. It's just keeping you stuck. Have a look for yourself now. Just sit with yourself, by yourself, and turn the fuck in.

Seriously. Turn in. There's still a centre there. There is. Because if the centre wasn't there, not a single question would come up. Yeah, OK. So, you have to find that. Stop trying to find, you know, what it's going to be like to be. It's not so much that, it's the process of going from A to B. All right. What's conducive to that full and wide. All right. So, if you want to go from A to B, just go from here to here. Sit with it. OK. So, what's the point of that? Well, I think, sit with it. Sit with it. Because if you want to call A, me, and B, awakening, just sit with that.

A to B. And just sit with that. And forget, look, drop all this conceptual stuff. Even the questions. Like I said, wouldn't matter what anybody said to you. It's not going to be it. It's not. Well, I'm not pointing out that you don't know which ones are right. Well, I was interested to get an answer but saying that same thing. Yeah. But just to help the process of finding that. Then I've just told you. Sit the fuck still. Like seriously. Sit still and turn in. Yeah, but that's why we're here too. Yeah, yeah. You know what I mean? Like we're a support group. Absolutely. Because it's not like you see in India, you know, like Indians go, like, you know, you go, you know, it's different.

I mean, we're, the separation, being in the West, especially in Australia because you've got 24 million people. Yeah. And what just came out of me in relation to you, Gareth, I trust implicitly. Notice I don't say that to everybody. I don't say that to everybody. Sometimes you'll engage. But I sense enough is enough with you. Just knock it off. Like really. Just if, if, if you, I don't know how long you've been on this path. And if you're really like, it sounds like you're really quite driven. It sounds like you're really quite focused. You're quite focused. So you're serious about it. All right. Now you find out.

Now you find out. That's the hardest bit. And it just means you just go, fucking sit there and look, like literally look, look and stay with it. Stay with it. Stay with it. And when I did that, what I saw was that last little thing that was clinging, which is why I felt this so awkward to get and understand, was there was two things going on. There was something that was real. And there was something that wasn't real. That that was real was the sense of presence. Absolutely. Undeniable. Can't do. I can't say I'm not. Yeah. There was that sense of presence. That was not real.

Was that false identity, that false me that was hanging on to that and claiming ownership of it. This is my awareness. This is my presence. I feel in my body. This is my seeing, my hearing. Really close and real basic. Like really, really basic. So incredibly basic. And I had, and I saw that. Absolutely. Absolutely saw that. And it operates really, really closely. We kind of, we're not even aware that it's there. You know, we run through. Initially, we get all this intellectually. Absolutely. There's no we've saw buts about it. It's a normal, all an intellectual process until it becomes known. And then all that, that drops off.

All of it drops off. So sit there. Just sit there and see what happens. When I saw that, when I absolutely saw that, everything just completely dropped away. All of it dropped away. And then I just found myself sitting in that sense of presence. What would you do though? I mean, would you, eyes closed or what? Eyes, for me, I sit with not eyes closed. Not eyes closed. What were you actually doing? I just sat. I didn't do this. I fucking didn't. I just sat in a chair like this on my balcony and just looked out at the sky. And stopped doing anything. And nothing was going on.

Like nothing but there was an absolute awareness of this presence. And the longer I sat with that, the longer I, there was an eye there that was sitting with it, okay, but the longer there was this staying with that, the bigger and the brighter that awareness got. And there was nothing that I, that my me thought that awareness was. It's not what me thinks awareness is. It's fucking not. Absolutely not. That's why it's termed a big deal when people awaken to it. Because when the me is completely absent, it gets an opportunity to shine. It opens up. It completely opens up. There's a dead quiet that happens in here for the first time.

For the first time. Completely void. Completely still. No me-ness. No self-identity. Nothing. Dead quiet. That's, that's pretty amazing. And don't try to imagine that. Yeah. The beauty of all the pointers and what Krishnamurti is describing, and everybody else is describing, it can be very helpful and it can be very misguiding and misleading. Because, because it sounds so compelling. But as Bob says, map is never the territory. But once you are in the territory, you see, you look around, ah, now it's so clear what they meant. Like if you're still studying the map, oh shit, now I can't imagine what the territory is like. Yeah, it kind of described pretty well, but you're still imagining.

There is still only the imagination of what he meant. While you find yourself in the territory, poof, and when you find yourself in the territory, it's not up to you. Because the me has absolutely no existence and it has no power to do anything at all. That's why when you see it, you stop doing anything. Complete surrender. If there is any me, just get it off the way. Stop it. Steal it. And then it shines forth. So really this is, we are over time and Bob is always knocking me down not to go too much over time. So, come back again and we'll explore more.

And good luck. Just sit and do nothing. Thank you.