Sailor Bob plus: Nonduality on Location, 20 Sept 2018

Everyone knows each other, don't need the names. And friendly universe has given us a question to start, because we are pretty exhausted after a big, big day walking, 15 kilometers walking along the different waters. Yeah, yeah, we had a big day. And then it's always, the beginning is always, oh my gosh, is anybody gonna ask a question? Because I don't really know where to start. I open my mouth and see what comes out. Sometimes I listen, sometimes I don't. But yeah today a couple of hours ago we had a question. We got a question from from someone in the far who was particularly asking for Bob to answer the question, so I don't know if the question is in the book.

We'll find it. I have the little script. And then you know when Bob answers the question because it is always about resonating I will ask all of you to answer it also because it's an important question and some of you may put it in different words. And either the man who asked the question or anybody else can actually hear the answer. So the question is, the question was in the book, is it this question? Yes, at the moment of seeing that there is nothing that sees, the seeing is free of thought, just natural awareness of knowing. And the way he worded the question, it says acknowledge that seeing which nothing is seeing, the nothing that is seeing, because when you do it, it will appear to be, to last longer.

Seeing will appear to last longer the moment when the recognition is that there is nothing that is seeing. And his experience is that where the seeing is happening, it feels very familiar and it feels like there is a me that is looking. So even though Bob is saying there is no one looking and seeing that seeing is just happening, nobody is looking, He can still feel that there is a me that is looking. So... This is what Terry's been talking about. Oh, everyone's talking about this. It's really a question that boils down to everything that nonduality has to say about the me, about the no-me, the absence of me, and the feeling of artificial sense of presence hijacked by the conceptual image.

So, go for it. Answer the question. He was precisely asking for you to answer the question. What do you mean that no one is seeing? What do you mean that it is going to be lasting apparently longer if you acknowledge it? And why does he still feel that there is a familiar feeling of me that is looking? Well, who is seeing? The thought comes up, I see. Isn't it? Yep. But can the thought I see actually see? Anyone who is not seeing right now, you have to put that thought I see on it, which we do, before you think that. Isn't seeing happening? Hearing's happening?

Tasting, touching, smelling, they're all happening. But to translate it, just say I see. But who is the seer? Isn't it a thought I see? Can a thought see? Can a thought hear? Can a thought be aware? So the thought I see cannot see. The thought I hear can't hear. The thought I know is not the knowing. So you formed a subject in the belief that I see. You formed a concept of a seer, me. Who is me? Me translated is myself. We look at that and say my body. And you know you're not the car, you're not the coat, you're not the hat or anything else.

Maybe you're not the body either. The same as the thing you say, my mind. And again, as you know, you're not the character of the heart, maybe you're not the mind either. And when you say, I, myself, instead of saying that that's just another concept you put on, you put it on this persona, the mask, the me, the egoic me that thinks it's seeing. Instead of saying I-self, just the same as I see, I hear, without putting a personal conceptual image on it, it is just plain seeing. And there's anybody who's not seeing right now without labelling it, even before you label it, as you label it and after you label it.

What's the label? The word or the concept? Is the word the thing? As I say, can a thought see? Can a thought hear? We go into that every time we talk about it here. See, there's no seer, there's only seeing. The thought I see means the subject, the seer. I see the chair of seeing becomes the object. So seeing is seemingly divided into subject-object. But is it ever divided? If the seeing is there, without the seer and the seen, there's no division in it. And then you recognise that all division is conceptual. There's no me that sees, no me that hears. But we take in the belief that there is, and have a question.

So when you say, instead of my self, you see it's that one self, as I say, it's nondual. It not a personal self then we put the persona or the mask on all these questions The mask is a conceptual image There no mask on it It just pure seeing hearing tasting touching smelling or wearing whatever you like to call it a sigh So there's no me, personal soul, that has ever become enlightened, ever become realized, ever become anything. That needs to be said. Look, everybody that comes here, comes here originally with the idea that they're going to get something or become something. But it'll never happen because you try to make the conceptual image become something solid and real.

Though it appears to be, but it can't. So I is the one self, not a personal self. So it's that self, one self, the soul self, not S-O-U-L, but S-O-L-E. That one self is appearing and expressing as everything. So how about this familiar feeling, that sort of an intimate feeling of familiarity that there is a me it feels like? Well of course all these concepts become very familiar. How often have you repeated them, believed them, how often has all those around you reinforced you and told you? Naturally it's familiar, you go back to the old pattern where it's seemingly located. Look, as Terry told us, at where it's located.

Can you find a location anywhere? Something seemingly solid, substantial, you know, look into it. Go into it. Instead of moving away from it, go into it. Try and make it. If that feeling is coming from that, try and make it real. Look at it as hard as you can. Then you realize, if I'm looking at it, that is not OM because I'm looking at it from seemingly Something else might be you think your head or your heart or your body something, well go back and look at that, where is that looking from? And you'll find a point where that's looking from, go back a bit further and you'll find there's no point there that there's anybody, any separation or any personal self can see or hear or taste or touch from.

So it's all a pure seeing. So that's all I can think of at the moment. There's probably plenty more there. Okay, so I'll just add one thing and I'll let you, Terry, because they hear it from you. The feeling of familiarity is the closest, most intimate feeling that it is actually familiar. It's the feeling of the being, the sense of presence. If we are expecting that that feeling of being alive or being present is going to go away somewhere, it's not going to happen. The feeling of I am is the primordial feeling. Now, whether that feeling of I am is hijacked by that personal self, the conceptual image, I am inferior, I am unworthy, I am whatever.

Of course, then that very basic primordial sense of aliveness is limited to the painful sense of suffering, of isolation and separation, because now there is a little separated, isolated, confined me and the world out there that is not in a sense of oneness. But the basic sense of I Am, if it's not dressed up as anything else, as any persona, the mask, is a beautiful, loving-to-be sense of awareness of being, the Sat Chit Ananda. And that very familiar sense of being, we can say that's what is looking out. And it's not a problem, because that feeling, that sense of presence, that primordial sense of being alive, Looking out is not an object looking out, it's not the identity looking out, it's pure consciousness looking out, it's pure nothing looking out.

Only the story says that this is something else, this is something separated or the ego. Like when we look at the animals, they also see, the seeing is happening for them too, but they don't have a story about what they are. They don't have inferiority complex. They may be an alpha male or they may be the last one in the tribe, but they don't have a problem with that because the life is running them the same way the life is running camera in the computer. Like there is no one to say that I am seeing through the camera. Same with this biocomputer. It doesn't really need any entity to actually switch on and off the seeing.

It is happening naturally, spontaneously. And the familiarity, there's something that is closer than the heartbeat, the sense of aliveness, the sweet sense of existence. If it's not translated into the pain of life coming from the sense of separation or the mask that we put, the jacket that we put of concepts on ourselves, there's nothing wrong with that. Still now, look who is looking and you will see that there is no face there, no eyes there. Eyes are not being experienced. Face is not being experienced. It's just sense of space that is looking out into the space. So this is to be verified, this is to be checked.

And you want to add something? Yeah, well, you feel that, like it manifests as a knot in the guts or a lump in the throat or a ache in the heart or something like that. Look at it, go into it, make it worse. You know, you're looking at it from somewhere else, well try and make it worse. Put all your energy and all your intention to make it worse, you know? And it's amazingly enough, all the energy going into that, looking at it, there's nothing going into the sensation there it disappears and you finish up laughing at it Yeah that a very good practical Nothing you know I used to do that a lot of people a lot of them couldn go there Satsang with Mooji I Am That, Ramana Maharshi, I Nisargad, presence-awareness, Mahavakya.

How could it be when you see something is false, it's not real? And that's the difference with this psychological knot in the guts or the lump in the throat, it's psychological. It's made by the mind. It's different from a physical pain. If you've got a physical pain, then it's totally different. That's the body telling you everything is not right here, well we've got to do something about it. But the psychological stuff we suffer from is not necessary. So, I think that's the point. It might come up but it's no big deal anymore. It hasn't been a big deal for years. I'm not taking any notice of it.

Beautiful. You happy Terry? Yeah. Cool. Can I just say, on the way here today, I was thinking of questions exactly about this. Cool. So, I don't know how... That's how the universe works. Yeah, no, exactly this question. Intelligent. Well, are you separate? No. Well, why shouldn't it happen? Yeah, no, I don't know. Yes. It's a wonderful question. I know somebody else that's questioning the same thing, that's a bit stuck there. That kept touched on it. The last thing that I experienced in relation to the conceptual me was it claiming ownership The body, claiming ownership of all the sensations, claiming ownership of the senses, in other words, I hear, I see, this is my seeing, this is my hearing.

But even closer than that was claiming ownership of this sense of presence. That was the last thing I saw. Just prior to that was the actual seeing that I'm not the body, that I'm not the sensations, that I'm none of that. Now for a long time, you know, conceptually I understood that I wasn't the body. Made perfect sense. Made perfect sense. And it seemed for myself that there was more of an inclination to at first see what went on in the mind. Just all the stuff that went on in my mind. So that got seen first, but what I also kind of lumped into that was, yeah, I'm not the body.

I'm not the thoughts and yeah, I'm not the body. And I kind of thought I dealt with that. Dealt with it, yep, see I'm not that. Totally see I'm not that. And much to my surprise, I eventually got to a point where I understood that I wasn't anything that the mind could throw up. I understood that there wasn't anything that the mind could throw up. Yet, I've said it here a hundred times, I still felt like I was here. I still felt like I was stuck. Now, that was really disconcerting and it raised questions just like the question that's being asked. Yep, I'm aware, I'm seeing, I feel present rather than I am present.

Huge difference. Note. Huge difference. And I didn't know what to do. I kind of literally didn't know what to do. And it dawned on me and probably you know from all the other negating that I done all the other seeking that I done in relation to the me and constantly trying to find it and you know not being successful at finding it it dawned on me And why it was the last thing to dawn on me I don know Well I do know actually But it was the last thing to dawn on me was that there this Yes, I still feel stuck, what's going, like...

what's happening there, like... And the last thing that dawned on me was that this conceptual me, this me-ness, this idea of myself that still felt like it was here and real and in the body, that conceptual me, what it was doing, Kat used the word before and it was beautiful, The me was still hijacking the body and that sense of presence. Because the me believed that that sense of presence was in the body and it's mine. It's mine. It's my sense of presence. And I heard myself saying that. This is my sense of presence. Oh, who said that? Who the fuck said that? Fuck! And it...

It became like... The looking into at that point, who said that, became laser-focused. Because there was nothing else at all for me to negate or look at. It was just that. You know... What is that? Who is that? And I saw the last niggling thing that this sense of me was hanging onto. It was that sense of presence and the body. And the body. It was hanging onto that as well. And I would have thought that dropped off ages ago. Like ages ago. The reason that was last to kind of drop off and to be seen by me is because that sense of presence is experienced here.

It's experienced here, that sense of presence. I didn't realize that that me-ness or that me-ing-ness had actually latched onto it. It's been that way all my life. All my life. The question was talking about seeing and being aware of seeing and yet it still felt like there was a me here that was doing the seeing. I Am. I Am the One, I Am the One. Little me, chimp, this little me that's in here, can it choose not to be? Can it choose not to see? Can it choose not to hear? If it's claiming ownership of it, over these things, that's mine, then it should be able to do things with it.

Then I discovered it can't. It can't actually do anything with it, with that sense of being. The reason it feels so familiar is because that sense of presence is there. That sense of here-ness is there. It's always been there. That's why it feels familiar. The problem is there's an identity there, claim and ownership of it. And that needs to be seen. You need to actually go looking for that. Laser pointed. Who is that? Where is that? Like all the other stuff is over. I know I'm not that thought, that thought, that thought, that those experiences in my life. There's a lot of data to kind of sift through when it comes to looking at all the stuff that goes on in the head.

But when that drops away and you finally come back to, yep, okay, but I still feel like I'm here. Then the self-enquiry at that point gets really, really simple. Really simple. Just look there. Look there. Try and find it. Literally. Try and find it. That that is saying. When I'm seeing, there still feels like, you know, there's a me here who's saying

Tjouhnta Nisargad Nisargad A.a.njrdi, Tjouhnta Nisargad Nisargad A.a.njrdi B.a.k.a.c.a.p.a.b.a.k.a.njrdi. Being is just feeling. Being felt pretty bland, pretty ordinary. What I discovered is that beingness or that awareness or that aliveness, when understood through that false sense of me, is bland to the false sense of me.

Very bland. It's like, where are the bells and whistles in that? You know, like, I'm, you know, like, and look, I might get slapped across the wrist for saying this by Bob after the meeting. But anyway, there are bells and whistles in that sense of presence and that awareness. There are. But it is not experienced, I hate using that word, but anyway, it's not experienced until that me is finally, finally seen through and it departs. And in the absolute departure of that, this sense of being and this sense of presence that we find ever so ordinary just expands. I don't know how else to verbalize that, but it does.

And it is fucking amazing. But it happens in and of itself, all by itself. Me just needs to be fucking out of the way, absent. And it's not even pushing it aside or trying to make it absent, it's just seeing it for what it really is. It's just a thought. Oh my God. But the me and the self are in the same ballpark, neither can control seeing. No. No. When you say self, what are you referring to? Well, the capital S overarching. So the capital S can't what? Well, it can't stop itself seeing, or in the other sense. If anyone wants to say something, I could see that.

When you take the boundaries off it, of course it must expand. But the question starts off with, keep seeing that there is no thing that sees. That's what this is, a seeming thing. Now, you realise that all this manifestation is made up of things. In the beginning, the words you and I are things, the carvers are things, the skies are things, the trees are things, they're all things but none of them, none of those things can see. So the seeing is happening, so when you drop all the concepts about it, you haven't stopped seeing, what it says, keep seeing, that there is no thing that sees.

No thing. And that's what you actually are, no thing. But everyone is seeing right now, hearing, tasting, touching, smelling. And the thing is this encapsulated me, we put it in the conceptual, which is keeping it like putting it in a barrel, it's locked in the barrel. When it's seen through the barrel expands and that natural spontaneous joyousness if you like to call it that, we put a label on that too. But it's naturally there. Can I ask you a question? I can't help but notice, because that is exactly right. That is exactly what I'm experiencing. It's like, thought is like this weird trippy movie that like, I haven't thought of that in like a decade.

And it just kind of, I'm like, there's no way I could have thought to have thought that. It just kinda... so that I see very clearly. You have to forgive me using the word I but I can see that very clearly. I don't... and I can see that I'm not the body like I don't grow my hair or I don't Arrange the optical nerve to do you know I don't do that but I feel like if I in all earnestness I live in the body I Don't feel like I am it I am the body itself. So it's as though if the body was to die, I would die in it.

Like, I don't feel like I am it, but I feel like I live inside it. And of course, conceptually I can understand that that's not true either. But that is my experience, that I feel like I live in it. Almost like I live... Isn't it the other way round? You live inside in? Yeah, that's exactly what I'm saying. I live inside in. No, no, I mean... The truth is the other side. Yeah, well, whatever. But like my point is... Let him answer. I was just going to ask you, like, it's like I live in the stomach almost. Do you know what I mean? In the solar plexus?

Yeah, that's exactly right. That's where the seeming life came into the body, through the solar plexus. I Am, I Am, I Am, I Am, I Am, I Am, I Am. And the stillness from movement You can No that right And when you say, I'd like to, like, it's a knife trying to cut itself when you're going into the mind. The sword can't cut itself. The knife can't cut itself at all. Okay. Okay, but I can't help but notice that you know how you go look like in self-inquiry we go looking for the me, right? And even if I look at the stomach or whatever and I feel that tightening or that chronic kind of almost like muscular tension, like that kind of feeling, right?

That's a thought going into the physical, certainly affecting the physical. If that thought wasn't there, would you get a nod in the stomach? I don't know what thought it is. The thought, the conceptual image you've got about yourself. Me, Max, the conceptual image has got about itself. Because I can't help but notice. And you didn't have any thought until you learnt words. And yet, you were living in the 9 months of conception and a couple of years after that before you learnt any words. And when you learnt words that's when the separation came upon you through the words. I or Me, and that word, the mental can affect the physical.

That's what psychology is all about. I just... I run into this wall though because I can't help but notice that... Okay, so let's say like you said laser pointed on that. What is that that's doing the... Pointing. Yeah. Right. Where are you looking from? Exactly right because the thing is like if I... Supposedly I do not exist. Literally, then what is that that is looking at? Because if I, because let's say that came undone, right? Wouldn't that one that looked and saw through the, what's that? Well you see, you see one looking at it. Has that one ever been something substantial and real that's looking at it?

You've taken to believe through all the conceptual ideas we've taken on and reinforced over the years. But can the thought I see, see? Can the thought I think, think? Can the thought I'm looking at, can that be what you really are? Can a thought do any of these things? No. Without the thought, you're still seeing, you're still hearing. But you're not relating it to a conceptual image. That's stirring up, seemingly causing the physical, because it's affecting the body as well. But if you locate it precisely, like the way you are saying that you are looking from here, where is the here? Is it the head or where is it?

Where is the one who is actually giving that laser point at the belly? I can't find a spot in which it starts. No, not a spot. Not a spot, just an area. Like it is not in Sydney. No, no, no, no, no, it's here, it's here and it's like this, like you say, sense of I am or sense of awareness that is looking, looking's not it, but that is aware of that feeling or feeling of I. You're always aware of that. That is what I'm asking. Well, that's what I say, that's the conceptual image you've got, that somebody is aware of it. You can't find it.

You've looked a long time, hard and fast, but you've never found it. Maybe it might just dawn on you that there's nothing there. We believe there's something there that's looking, the seeing is happening, the looking is happening, and you can't find it. No, it's not there. It might just dawn on you. Maybe there's nothing there. See, I was doing that exercise at some point and it really helped me. And I was walking a few people through it and it helped them too. Like there was a point in which I was supposed to locate where is that sense of presence. So I located it kind of like a vibration in here.

Now, I was asked to locate the one who knows about it, who is aware of that vibration. So I was locating it somewhere maybe behind the back of my head. I heard other people locating it in front or, you know, it's a personal thing. But for me the location was about there. So now I was asked, where am I locating that out there from? And now, when I was actually honestly looking, there is a knowing about that location, looking at that location. And that location, the moment I do another step back, gets more vague, gets more spacious. It doesn't have even a vague area from which I'm aware.

It expands until the point that it completely disappears in space. And now the last step is, oh shit, I'm nothing. Assuming the location, vague location here, looking at the little more precise location here and aware of even more precise location here. But the more you step back, the more vague and spacious that awareness becomes. And the last step where you can't even, you can't go more spacious. Like now I'm the whole universe, all the galaxies being aware of that certain locations, but now who is aware of the galaxies? All the galaxies are happening within me. I am the awareness manifesting the whole world galaxies manifesting the body manifesting the location around my head looking at the vibration in the belly Just really step back as much as you can unless you left with nothing You always realize that somewhere, when you look back to try and find what's looking, you're looking at that from somewhere else.

Yes. That's the answer. That's brilliant. That is the answer. That's the ultimate freedom. You've got no set static point anywhere in your dog. That's brilliant. I've got taken on a journey there. And it always works. Every time you look what is looking, you see there's, oh my gosh, there's just space like awareness looking out. There's nothing there. You may actually see the mind coming up with the label or with shape of the body or shape of the face, I am not a face, but this is just a mental image, just push it away. What's the experience? What is looking if you don't have a concept, if you don't have an idea or image?

What are you if you don't have a thought or idea about being body or mind? What are you without any shape that you give yourself? Because it feels like, yes, I'm using the body for looking. I am looking. If I am blind, I won't be seeing. So of course I am in a way my body, but I am not. This is just equipment I am using. It is just like I am using the voice box, like the computer is using the speaker system. But there is no one in the computer who claims the ownership of the speaker system or camera. If you can't find any static point when you are looking, where is the eye then?

The eye is the idea that it is a reference point we are looking from. What is it then? You can't find the aesthetic point to it. So could you say when you come down to it, all there is, is sensations in space? Yeah, absolutely. Nothing else? Yeah, movement in stillness, vibration. And it's only concepts that try to put it into a context. Yeah, put labels or words on it. And shape the whole universe by labeling things out of nothingness, Nothingness and creating form out of that nothingness. Like Bob is saying, it is intelligence energy shaping all different forms and patterns through the vibration, through the movement.

Different vibration will make a sound, different vibration will make a light, yet different vibration will create the atoms and the matter and it's all that, all that one. Only conceptually you divide it into me and the other, sound and silence. The world is transmitted and received at the same time through the conditioning, through the software, the programming that has been... Like Bob is beautifully saying, when you are little, you get the idea that you are a separate self, you are the body, you identify with the body, and now, because you cannot do much with that sense of presence walking in the body, you claim the capacity of seeing.

Now I have the capacity of seeing. I am doing the seeing. But who is doing the seeing? Who can say my eyes are open and my eyes are healthy and now I decide not to see? It's not going to work. And even if it would work, because perhaps there is a way to switch off certain networks in the brain, even if it would work, it's so totally thought dependent and I can't produce the thought. The thought, if it appears, decision is made, choice is made. If it doesn't, nothing happens. Or the idea, people have the idea, oh of course I can work on my thoughts, of course I can change negative thinking to positive thinking.

Provided the thought of changing arises, because if it doesn't, nothing you can do. It all comes about in that belief in myself. You know you're not the body when you look into it, or you're not the mind. But the self is my self. We take that to be the real. That's the reference point which we take to be real and solid instead of investigate. It's I-self. There's no me or my doing. Everything is I. That's how Ramana Maharshi finished up with the thing. What is the question asked? Who am I? He came in and said there's nothing left but I, I. And that's just a concept also.

And one thing that Terry touched upon and that's really important, that's what was actually a stress of Nisargadatta's teaching, the diamond of good fortune. To dwell in the I Am, yeah. Is to dwell in the I Am to exclusion. And discard the intellect. Discard everything else, to the exclusion of everything else, because now I can dwell in the I Am and as you said, rightfully so, The I Am seems blunt and boring and seems like nothing to the mind because mind is so juicy. You can get dramas there, you can get tastes, you can get all sorts of different entertainment fireworks. But if you dwell in the I Am to the exclusion of the mind, to the exclusion of all that entertainment, it is a diamond, it will shine.

And that's also illustrated in the scriptures in Isaiah. Be still and know that I am is God, not me, the person. See I am, well that's presence, that's just a label we put on. Just the same as the word God is a label. And not the God either. In the beginning was the word. That's what, and all these come about because we learnt words. And the word's never the thing. What Kat was saying about that stepping back there be a couple of steps back where the Question will arise in you okay now who that What that But eventually what happens is and this is the blessing part of it eventually what happens is that question stops arising It all stops All the questions stop It just all stops And then there just the abiding there And it opens, it opens, and it can't be experienced by the conceptual me.

It can't be experienced by that. It's just, you know, it's Father Christmas. It's not real, it's not true. It can't be experienced by that. So your original question was, yeah, okay, there's kind of knots here or there's a contraction here. Who or what is it that's aware of that? So there's that question that comes up, so there's a step back from that. So then you try and figure out what's that? Where's that? And you'll find that in that process, the awareness just starts expanding. It just does. It's kind of a bit like a flower opening up. It just literally by itself starts to expand. And then you might get to a point of this kind of a vastness, but still kind of feel like I'm here.

You know, okay, what is it that's aware of this, that? I often use the expression, relax back into this. Relax back into this. And how Kat verbalized it is exactly what I'm talking about. Just there's a stepping back. And even, I loved it when you said, you know, kind of felt like it was here. That's absolutely where it felt like it was for me. Absolutely where it was. It was so, so close that I wasn't seeing it. I wasn't even... it was so close. I wasn't aware of it. So close. So that, you know, if you've managed to get to the point where you're, yeah, look, I know there's no me here.

Yeah. However, what is it that's aware of that beautiful? What is it that knows that? What is it that's seeing that there's no me here? What is that? That's that laser. And you'll find when you get there, no conceptual ideas come up around it. It's just, where is it? It's a bit like losing your wallet. I am not a doctor, I am a lawyer. You can stay in that story, literally you can just stay in that story or park the story, just look for the wallet. There's no story involved, literally, in looking for the wallet. You get to a point where there's no, you do, you just get to a point where there is no story around it.

Yes, and... For me, the localising mind actually is a magnificent achievement. If it had not gotten out of control, there's nothing wrong with it at all. It's really super wonderful. But it's just that it's become the master, that's the only thing. Exactly. And that is only a problem, it becoming a master, that is only a problem if you become aware of that being a problem. For others that aren't even aware of that being a problem, it's perfect. It just is. It's perfect. So that's, you know, when you get involved with this and you start that form of self-enquiry, that's the sort of stuff you see.

So, as I keep saying to you, relax back into the I. Relax back there. And if it means you're doing a little bit more inquiring as to, oh hang on a minute, what is it that's aware of? Fine, go there. But you can do it in a really relaxed way, like in a calm way. Bob wanted to say something. Oh, okay, sure, I'd like to ask you, who was the question there? And the obvious answer, I am. So if the questioner, I am the questioner, and the question coming from me, the questioner is the question. No questioner, no question, what happened? Cancel each other out.

Who can ask the questioner if the questioner itself, the concept you've got that I'm asking the question of? Really, really important to see that. Like, really important to see that. The questioner is nothing but the question. Nothing else. Nothing else. And I know that sounds weird, but that is what it is. Because the questioner is nothing but a thought. And the question is a thought. So without the questioner, the question can't arise and they both cancel each other out. And the wonderful thing is, in that cancelling out process, you don't disappear. You're still here. Oh my God. But you're not relating to a reference point anymore or a questioner.

Bob is explaining that split and I think you already said it today but maybe it's worthy of repeating. The split. How the seeing, seer and the seen or questioner, questioning and the question. How they are conceptually divided and they can't exist without each other so they're not divided at all. Well the functioning is going on. Everybody is seeing, hearing, tasting, touching, smelling, thinking, questioning or thinking. And then the thought comes up, I see, or I hear, or I taste. So you've formed a subject. This conceptual image you've got about yourself, me, Bob the Australian, the good fellow, or whatever image you've got about yourself, now thinks it has the capacity of seeing, hearing, tasting, touching, smelling.

A thought-up conceptual image. And the question, you know, I'm seeing, what am I seeing? I am seeing, I'm seeing that, this room, the mirror, the lights and everything, that's become the object. The thought I see has become the subject. So now the totality is divided into subject-object. Seer and seen, taster and touched, tasted, thinker and thought, feeler and felt. But can there be a seer if there wasn't seeing? And we say in the start of this, keep seeing that there is no thing that sees. Pointing out that seeing is going on without relating to a thing. So they can't be a questioner or a seer without the seeing.

They can't be a thinker without the thinking. Can't be a doing without the doing. Seeming doing, whatever it is. So subject-object are conceptual images. It's only pure seeing, hearing, tasting, touching, smelling, breathing, heart beating. It's all one essence doing nonduality. Everything is it. And if you've got nothing to relate to, to divide it to, what's going to happen? As Terry says, the cage of bondage we've built around ourselves, the concepts, expands. And you'll see you're full of the natural state of being. And it's not going to stop the seeing, any tasting, touching, the functioning from going on, but you can't give it any credence anymore.

You can't believe it for very long at all. I don't believe it at all, after all, but it still comes up, that's the way the functioning goes on. There's this notion that I question. I'm questioning. I question. Whereas the truth is, there's just question. The There is a me that is aware of that not or that sensation in here. There is just a sensation in there. There is not a me that is aware of it. It is just that. An awareness of that. But it is not mine or your awareness. What do you want to say? When you say I don't like this or I don't want that, you know, what are you relating to?

A conceptual image, if you're not relating to that image, could you give a shit what anybody says or thinks or does? What resonates will resonate and be taken aboard naturally. What doesn't goes over your head, you couldn't care less about it. He puts a blockage on himself and he's like, you know, I don't want to hear this, so I can't stand that, it's not good enough. And that all comes from the division subject-object, because the way Terry was looking at it a little bit differently, and Bob a little bit differently, they're both valid, absolutely. But the way, like Bob is saying, seeing is happening, but there is, the seeing is divided into the one who is seeing and the one, the object that is seeing.

Now, questioning is happening, it's divided into the questionnaire and the question. So, seemingly, there is one process going on, one movement going on. And now we have, it seems like, for the mind, there is someone who asks the question, and there is a question that has been asked. It seems like there is two, and it does, of course. But now, if there is someone who asks the question, the questioner, but there is no question, can we even call that a questioner? We can't. The questioner disappears if there is no question. We can't even call it a questioner. There is no questioner without the question. And the same way, the questioning is a process, is a movement, like all the vibration, vibrating energy functioning.

And now, if there is no question, the same thing happens. The questioner didn arise So they arise simultaneously just like a seer in the scene Let say I a looker I looking at the chair out there But if there is no chair I not a looker anymore Or if there is no me, there is no looker anymore. The chair is not being acknowledged, it literally doesn't exist. The process, the movement of seeing is not happening. So questioning, seeing, hearing, tasting, touching, smelling is a natural functioning. Now out of this very, very natural functioning The idea that no, no, no, it's not one process, there are two things going on, the one who is looking and the one that is looking at.

That's not true. It's always the, it's like almost as if there is a space and I'm walking with that space of my gaze and there are different objects flowing, floating through that space of watching, but the space is not changing. The process of seeing is just one process and it's absolutely inseparable from me looking at it. The content is changing of that whole space of seeing, but there is not two going on, it's just one seeing. And this division is a beautiful functional division and creates the diversity of beautiful dualistic manifestation. Thank God, it's sweet, but when it is taken for gospel, when it is taken as there is me and there is a world out there, so now I'm threatened, now I'm not safe, now I have to be preoccupied with my own safety, now I have to protect myself, defend myself and obsess about myself.

That's not necessary. If there is just space looking and things floating through it, space hearing and things floating through it, there is no division. It's just a space that is witnessing functioning. There is no threat. The life is an entertainment. In the space there is a content and there is an awareness of the content. Everything has being and there is an awareness of being. How can I separate my being from the being of anything else if not conceptually? And this could be experienced with a glimpse. Let's say I ask you now to sit as if you didn't know how does your body look like. Like you have absolutely no idea.

Don't look at your feet, but you just don't know. You don't know how is your body looking. And now, just sit for a minute, just sit. How does it feel to not have this projection going on? Now, you don't know whether your body is ending 10 cm from the centre, or is ending half a metre from the centre, or is ending at the end of the room. You don't know that. How is the being without the assumption that it ends with the skin? Without that assumption, even with the eyes closed, it's even easier. I can't define when I begin and where am I ending. I can't say my borders or my limits.

If I can, that will be a concept. If I park that concept aside and I'm just focusing that I am, but what I am, I don't know. What is my limits? I don't know. How big is my body? I don't know. I may figure out sitting with that, that again my limit is as far as is my knowing. If I'm knowing about Australia, I'm knowing about the universe, I'm knowing about Milky Way and the cosmos, that's all appearing in the knowing that I am. I am the knowing. And whatever appears in it is just a content. content. And if I don't have the concept that I'm here and what I know is out there, if there is no division, it's just pure knowing, just like there is a pure seeing.

There is no need, there is just that space of knowing, moving around and experiencing content. So there's no inside and outside? No. Everything is like Nisargadatta says, I've swallowed the world. Everything is inside the field of awareness. You can't even say inside because there is nothing outside. Inside only exists as the opposition to outside. If there is no in-out, it's just what is. And see how the space and the galaxies and all that thing is conceptualized and is created the moment I'm actually thinking about it. Just like the past is created in the moment I'm recalling it. It's like I have no proof that yesterday existed unless I think about it.

Like I can say, okay, but yesterday I broke my leg and it's still broken today. But now this is the story happening on top of a pure content of awareness, the sensation of whatever, something I call pain. So the world is actually created moment to moment Through the conceptualizing, through the mental images, through the imagination. But the only thing, if I stop imagining, if I stop projecting, the only thing that I can ever know is the knowing. The knowing itself, the awareness of being itself. The knowing being, knowing being. You're saying that, recognizing even the least little bit of it. What are you going to get?

Who's going to get it? What's to acquire? You realize you can't, there's nothing you can acquire. It's building more concepts, more ideas, more images on you. So all that needs to happen then is to start discarding all the crap that we've gathered. There you go. Discarding the concept. And that's what we say often here, it starts from the fact you already are that, whether you know it or not. And then all you've got to do is see what comes up and stopping you from seeing it. Whatever concept or idea you think is going to stop you. You already that Everybody is already that right here and right now Always have been What stopping it Any concept or idea or image of God that there something to get something to become Being is not becoming Becoming implies a future time So you are already that.

And the beautiful quote that the world has learned from you, what's wrong with right now if you don't think about it? Like, who are you if you don't think about it? What are you if you don't think about it? This was just that little glimpse that I say if you don't know the shape of your body, you don't know how big it is, you don't have this mental image of the size of it, without the concept of what is that thing that I call I am, what are you? What are you without the thought? What are you without thinking about it? Because, yes, the only thing that separates you from the recognition of being absolute nothing or absolute totality, either way it works as the same thing, is the concept, is the thought.

That's how far you are from understanding that you are already that. You are not far at all. It's just one thought that I am not there yet, or I am the body-mind, or I am the feeling inside. It's just that one thought that is making, that is completely, it's like a curtain over the mirror. The mirror has no judgment, it reflects everything as it is. And now that thought, I'm the Santa Claus or I'm the dwarf, I'm a little chimp, you said? Chimp, a little chimp inside that is pulling the string. That thought is putting the curtain over the mirror and now nothing is reflected.

It's just the curtain of the idea. And how can you say I've lost it? I've got that concept. If you are already that, what can be taken away from that? You can only drop the concept that you haven't got it. It's almost as if you were at the stage, an actor playing a role in the movie. You're playing the role, whatever, let's say you play a great hero. And you totally feel the role, you totally identify with it. Yes, this is so me. And then the play is over. But you refuse to come back to your natural state. You still pretend to be the actor, you still pretend to be a hero.

Oh, call me the whatever, the hero, call me the Batman or whatever. It's nonsense. Like this is a play. This is all play. We are playing to be the other. Consciousness is dressing up as the individual to experience the otherness because the oneness, the sweetness of oneness can only be tasted as the opposite to the separation. So that's the beautiful play. It's just the question of how identify you are in the moment with the role and how quickly you wake up from it. And we're all Academy Award winners from Clarendon Rock. Totally. We're all Oscar actors. We're so brilliant. And absolutely, and it is happening and it will continue happening.

Bob is 42 years with Clarity and he is still dreaming to be an actor. It's just the seeing through is happening right away. It doesn't take weeks or years or whatever to see through. The seeing through is happening right away. Well we pointed out the screen, the basic screen, the emptiness, the cognising emptiness, the silence and the stillness and the emptiness. Everything appears on that screen. And you've got a movie screen, you've got all those bloody cowboys and Indians, hundreds of cowboys and Indians are shot, killed by my mother. When the movie stops, what's happened to the screen? It's not full of bullet holes or the bomb's blown up or burned down.

It's still as it was, ever perfect then. The actors are all gone and disappeared. Yeah. It doesn't happen. You should especially be able to relate to that, Max. You're an actor. Are you? He does it for a living. Oh, really? Yeah. I thought you did the tennis coaching. Both. Oh my God. Yeah. Yeah. Like that. Thank you. That, that Max character that goes on there is purely an act. The I am the one who is wanting to play Max. My gosh, if you don't object it, if you don't... Okay, fine, oh my gosh, consciousness, beautiful, I love you. If you want to be completely forgotten in the role, be it.

If there is no resistance, there is no pain, there is no suffering. And now you're looking at that little play and you have fun with it. Just the way Bob is having fun with it, I'm having fun with it. Like the cloud is coming through the sky and the cloud is known to be a cloud. Like Bob is having a feeling of whatever, a little bit of a jealousy or something. And it is known to be a cloud passing, a jealousy cloud passing. And there is inside the screen or the awareness is laughing, but it's not disturbing it. It's not resisting it, it's not trying to push it down or not to feel it.

Everything is welcome. Every feeling, emotion is welcome. And the waking up is moment to moment. And this is not Bob that is waking up. There is no Bob. And the old days would hang on for days, weeks, years sometimes. Yeah. But it doesn't mean that these feelings are unavailable now. They are available, they show up, and the screen is not being touched, and the screen is knowing them for what they are. And it soon becomes amusing and you can laugh at it Exactly They become precious Even anger even irritability even resistance is sweet I mean we been going for our long walk today we been going in a tram and of course crowded trams there are smelly trams and of course he will eventually find the seat that I usually want And there's, oh yeah, gosh, one hour they're here.

And then the curiosity, oh wow, this is juicy, wow, this is interesting. And the attention completely, like the resistance arising, and there's completely no resistance toward arising of the resistance. Quite the opposite. It is amazing, it is amusing, like wow, interesting. It's an old pattern. It doesn't mean that if you realize that everything is a game of patterns, it's just a vibration of different habits. It doesn't mean that all these habits will drop off. If there is no other habits, they will still play out. But there is no one to be bothered by it. There's no one to be troubled by it. So the old pattern comes out.

Oh, sweet! How interesting! How cool! That's the freedom. Because the idea that, oh, I will never experience resistance, I will never experience anger, oh my gosh, I'm not there yet because they are still arising. They are, but not to me. They are arising on the screen. The screen, the cowboys arising, the, what do you say, cowboys and Indians, yeah, they all arising. And the screen is not being touched. And it doesn't mean that now I recognize them. I can't recognize them, I is a fiction. Nobody recognizes them, they're just showing up on the screen. Nobody is recognizing them. We use the language, we say recognizing because how else can we point at this identifying with the content?

But if the identification doesn't come up and the resistance shows up on the picture, but there's nobody identified with it, so it doesn't last the next minute, the next second, A couple of seconds and it's gone. And it's almost like if there was someone there, that someone would say, oh my gosh, why did you go so quickly? I didn't really have a good look at you. Like, come back. But there's no one there to have preference, even for so-called negative emotions to stay. So it doesn't matter. It completely doesn't matter. Whatever is the content, whatever is the movie. If the movie is about suffering, oh wow, that's intense.

And the screen is still not offended. You want to say something? I don't want to say anything. A lot of it is all habit patterns. We keep reinforcing them day in day out. Yeah, like crossing your legs. And our schools, society, nation, everybody else around us reinforces it. And we reinforce it ourselves because we don't know any other way. Until we come across something like this. There is an essence waiting to hear it, apparently, because it makes you look at this stuff. Where thousands of others don't. And keep at it and keep looking, you'll see through it, you must. Because the false cannot stand up to investigation, know that for certain.

So investigate it and fully go into it as much as has been pointed out in different ways tonight, go into it fully and it'll fall apart because it's not the truth. And that's the scriptural saying, know the truth, the truth will set you free. You see the freedom from these beliefs and false ideas? You're free of everything. You are that freedom. Basically that process of hijacking the experiences, hijacking or kind of taking an ownership of whatever shows up. If there is a resistance showing up or there is irritability or anger showing up, and now there is idea that I am angry or I am irritable or I am in resistance.

That is the moment to see what is that I. Maybe it is just pure resistance. Maybe it's just this bubbling in the stomach of solar plexus and nothing else. Maybe there isn't any I that is experiencing it. Maybe it is just what appears on the screen. And in my experience, whatever appears on the screen, there is no agent in between the experiencing, pure experiencing. There is no one that is having it. It is just pure vibration that is being labeled. And there is no necessity. There is only the belief that comes in and say, yeah, but it still feels like there is a me. It feels like the me is having that feeling of inferiority or the feeling of I am unworthy or I am not deserving or I have to strive harder or whatever.

There is no me having the feeling. There is just the vibration showing up in the stomach or in the body or in the throat. And the body is the mirror, the body is the medium through which this experiencing is happening. The body is the screen in that moment. But also the body appears in the awareness. So not only the body is a screen for the sensations, but also the whole body is a content in the awareness, Because the sensations are known on the body and the body is known in the pure awareness. Not that there are two steps, there is really one. But it may be easier to recognize the bubbling life.

When Bob is beautifully saying it, when you experience fear or anxiety, it feels like, when you label it, it feels like you load yourself down with every previous fear or anxiety. And it feels so heavy and it feels so real and it feels so overwhelming You can't say that it's pure awareness having it. Of course it's me, I'm confined, I'm terrible, I'm horrible. But when the label is taking off and there is a natural curiosity going on, now there is this sensation that I would normally call anxiety, by relating it to past memories and comparing it with what I've learned from other people, with that mental process,

I am a person who is not aware of the process going on.

That sensation is labelled from the past. Now, if I am curious and I take that label off, what is happening? There is probably some sort of a contraction going on. But even contraction is a label. If I take that label also, there is just a movement. It's a vibrating, pulsating, throbbing movement going on. And if I don't have preference and I'm just curious about that movement, in a moment there won't be any resistance. The curiosity will say, that's juicy, yum. That movement that I used to call anxiety is a beautiful, beautiful search of life. And now, of course, same applies to pain. And it's not always even possible to take the label off and watch it.

Sometimes it's just going to be labeled and it can be watched as a sensation with the label or sensation and the label on top of it. But if there is a genuine curiosity, this identification is very, very easy and natural. The moment curiosity comes in and we can see actually what is happening, what type of sensations are happening, how fast do they vibrate, Where are they located? How dense or hard they are? Sometimes you can even feel like I was guiding a friend once through the phone and she could feel that there is like a like an iron ball in her solar plexus like she was yeah she was very she had actually she had a panic attack she could not breathe and she was describing how heavy it was I am a very strong believer in the existence of the divine, the divine is the essence of the divine.

I am a very strong believer in the divine, the divine is the essence of the divine. I am not afraid to be safe. Because if there is a hard story going on, yes, they are bullying me at work and now this anxiety is kind of protecting me against it. It is actually an act of self-love telling me, oh my gosh, I love this one, I want to be safe. But this is only when the story is dense. When the story is not that dense but there is just a physical sensation. The moment attention goes into describing it, looking at it, it naturally goes out of sustaining it.

The attention only has certain amount of megabytes or whatever, the bits of information that it can invest into it. There are certain numbers, I'm not quite sure, 200,000 out of 200 millions or whatever, that brain can process the bits of information. So now this processing capacity was invested in sustaining the sensation. The moment it starts looking at sensation with the curiosity, the processing capacity goes out of sustaining it and it is not going to last. The longer you look, the sooner the lumps, guts, what was it, knots in the guts and lump in the throat. Hike in the heart, knot in the guts. Yeah, I just love your language.

I love your language because you just he puts two, three words and it sticks and it's, boy, beautiful. Anyway, the longer you look at what is really happening there, the less you will experience it. So that friend that I was guiding, I don't know, was it two minutes, three minutes, and the ball wasn't that solid anymore. It was half transparent. It wasn't really metal anymore. It was kind of a cloud. And another four or five minutes later, oh my god, I'm not panicking anymore, my breathing is alright, shit. Yeah, that's how it works. It's just, it's all imaginary, it's all believed in. The moment it is investigated, it comes back to its true nature.

And true nature of every form is emptiness. There's always, the moment you take up investigation, you're gonna end up finding the true nature of thing. I Am is the nature of thing, doesn't matter what you investigate. If you investigate the I, you'll find that I is nothing. If you investigate the chair, come close, get the microscope, look at the electron microscope, you'll still find it's nothing, because everything is nothing. So this is the end result. If we don't reach that state of understanding everything that appears as nothing, just keep investigating. That's it. And of course investigations also just to happen, it's not a choice because it's thought-dependent or the natural desire or longing-dependent, whatever.

It's nobody there to make a decision or make a choice or do investigation. It happens or it doesn't. But the probability that it happens seems to be rising when you expose yourself to the frequency, when you're already in love with that frequency of pointing. Thank you Max. The last two or three weeks I've had a quiet, nice rest. You come along and snap me out of it. Thank you, thank you Max. We were really waiting for Bob to speak more. Cool. That's, yeah. Beautiful, I bet. It all fits in, those things. Things happen like that, you know. We'll come along and change things, turn things around.

Beautiful. Thank you. You were saying, Kat, and Bob says it too, I'm so, so happy. There'll be, um, Habit. What I've noticed is that there's still some habit patterns that come up as a thought. But like I guessing 90 of it has dropped off 90 Yeah I guessing around there Yeah And that 10% of stuff that comes up now, it rarely, and I mean, and when I say it comes up, it's just a thought that will come up, but it rarely now manifests down into the body. rarely does that happen I remember when we were driving along in the car that night and I was driving I was the driver and I just kind of reaching down fumbling for something the next thing I know I looked up and I drifted over into the other line with car coming that way just like turned and just missed I Nisargad tathagat, I Nisargad tathagat.

I thought, God, what if that, what's wrong with me? Like, geez, I could have killed the both of them. There'd be a big story attached to it, you know, and that could last for days. Yet now what I find, like when that happened, my heart didn't even skip a beat because the car was gone and we were past it. Nothing actually happened. And I then just kind of resumed communicating to Max, like nothing happened. All these things will arise now. Like I see a thought that will arise now. But it's kind of really... Compared to what it used to be like, it's really vague. And it kind of...

It's... I'm not wearing them anymore. I'm not wearing any of the thought that might come up. It's the only way I know how to describe it really. So, you know, I noticed that when I'm driving, I used to be a shocking... Road rager. Road rager, yeah, but I was the anonymous road rager. I'd do it with my windows up and nobody would hear it. I'd be fucking going ballistic inside the car. You fucking morons, going off, you know. I was kind of around on political correctness too, so I was always careful not to throw it onto somebody, but I'd fucking throw it around on the inside of the car, you know.

And, you know, a few months ago I was driving... And now that occasionally that pattern will come up in me I'll do one or two things, it'll come up, and as soon as it comes up, I laugh. Like I literally, I start laughing, which is fabulous by the way. I'll just start laughing. But what I also realized a little while ago is that every single solitary thing, And I mean virtually every single solitary thing that other drivers do on the road that fucking piss me off. They shouldn't be doing that and you know, rah rah rah. Every fucking thing. At some point in time in my life, I've done the same thing.

And I mean exactly the same thing. I'll get behind someone in an 80k zone and they'll be crawling along doing 40. I Am The One Who Knows The Truth I do a lot of laughing. Thank you. When you say the stuff, you know, down the road. That's what just happened with her. You know, he's down the road now, he's not just waiting for the jack, you know, he's gone. I'll never see him again, whether it was he or her, whoever it was, why worry about it? I saw somebody in the rearview mirror of my car doing what I used to do. His windows were up, he's stuck in traffic, like everybody else, everyone's stuck in traffic, and he's going off, like right off, banging the fucking steering wheel like this and looking around and like he went, I didn't even behave that way, that badly, but he went off.

I'm watching him in my rearview mirror and I couldn't help but laugh. I just laughed. All that energy that he was expelling and going off did nothing Didn alter anything He's still just there, like everybody else is still just there. I am a man, I am a woman, I am a man. I Am Self-organizing Universe I am walking in the door with all this twisted shit that's going on. They don't get the real me. Well, can't say that. It's sweet and it's very freeing to be able to actually see the patterns, how they play out and recognize them for what they are, just pure patterns.

The way life is amusing itself and entertaining itself and then you see your own projections and you recognize your own patterns that are not there anymore. It's like, what a play. You got anything to say? No questions? I was just going to ask you about that technique that you were talking about. Technique might not be right, but where you look at that and then you look at this and then you look at this and then you look at that. Yeah. Yeah, just... Who came up with that? That's brilliant. Did you do that at the monastery? I picked it up somewhere. Everything is second hand. I picked everything up.

Everything has been said hundred times. The way I learned about it, it was from Tej Gyan in India. That was just one of the exercises. But I read it in many other books later on. And I kind of experienced it. See, everything is second hand. There is really nothing new that you could add to it. Like thousands of years ago they were using pointers and I wouldn't even know which pointers I am using that somebody else told before me because they show up in my own words. So I don't really know. The exercises, some of the exercises that I learned there I am not disclosing because I was obliged not to disclose them.

But because this one is appearing in any other teachings and is helpful. Sure is. Douglas Harding had a lot of things like that, experiments and that, that you can do. What is this one again? Just locating, locating the one who is aware. Like if you are experiencing a sensation, you know where is that sensation, let's say it's somewhere in the guts or in the throat. So where are you looking at that sensation from? So just see, just see where, because you are aware that there is something here, Where are you looking from? You may, when you sit with it, you may see that, oh yeah, it kind of feels like I'm looking from here down, or maybe it feels like I'm looking from here sideways.

You just see your own experience, how does it really sit. And then you look from above, yes. And then, once you locate the area, because it's not gonna be precise point or anything, but just a vague area, where are you looking from, at that sensation. So now, how do you know you're looking from here? Where are you looking from at this one, at this location? Now, just keep stepping back, keep looking, where are you looking from? Because the location is only assumed by the mind, so every next step is going to be kind of more vague, until the point that you wouldn't be able to locate anything.

You would say, oh yes, it's just space-like awareness. When you're looking at it now, you say, look at it, alright, it's seemingly there. How bad can it get? If I'm looking at it, it's not making it. Try and make it worse. See how bad, you know, if you've got a physical pain, hurt physically, you can put your pinpoint, this psychological stuff, go in and try and make it worse. Put all your energy into it, however, and you're straining and struggling to try and make it worse and I am a person who is not aware of the existence of the mind. I've had people who tried to get, I've been looking at it for years now, burst into tears, go away, do all sorts of things, so I gave it up after a while, let them work it out for themselves.

It's the hardest thing you can ever do, but once you've done it, the results are better. You have this saying, face the fear of dying and the... Do the thing you fear and the death of fear is certain. Oh, do the thinking fear and the fear of death is certain. The death of fear. Death of fear Oh right whatever Death of fear Yeah well I take off the label from the word fear and see really how does it feel It can be quite yummy if you take off the label, because the label fear is definitely a negative sensation, then there is a resistance towards it, oh, I don't want to feel it.

But if you take the label off, forget about it, push it aside, and then you see there is going to be a surge of energy going on in the body, And it's gonna be some certain like seeming location where it is. It's more here or there. You know, the breathing is gonna be shorter and shallow. And all that sensations are being known or being observed from the witness perspective. But where is that witness? Is it here or there? Okay, let's say somewhere vaguely around here. But who knows about that witness? And who knows about the one that knows about it? And eventually there is no witness.

There is just a space knowing, the sky-like awareness being knowing. Bob Dylan ought to get around to writing a song, how does it feel? What? Yeah. What was that? Say it again. Bob Dylan ought to get around to writing a song, how does it feel? Yeah. A song, how does it feel? Is it? Yeah. The other thing too that becomes really apparent is I used to walk around with this sense of an identity, this kind of mainness, But what I was also, not so much at the time but now, that identity used to change. Bit like a chameleon almost. So, you know, if I get pulled up by a cop, for example, because I'm speeding, yeah, I'm not going to get out the car, back then, back I'm talking about, I'm not going to get out the car and be how I am when I'm with Bob.

Or be how I am when I'm with you. There'd be a certain kind of persona that I would just automatically take on, unconsciously, but automatically take on. So I had all these different kind of... Masks. Masks. Thank you, thank you. That's what I'm looking for. mask that I used to wear, pinning on whatever situation it was that I found myself in. And, man, I was so lost in terms of who am I really? Like, who am I really? Because, you know, when I'm with such and such a person, I'm a certain way. And when I'm with such and such a person, I'm a certain way.

Why? Like, which one's right? But even closer, why is that going on? Like, why is it? And now, I find it doesn't matter who I'm with, even if I get pulled over by a cop, I get out the car, and I'm still just who I am now. It's really quite playful and light and so light and really quite playful but now there's no It's really really I'm gonna say this and you can slap me across the knuckles. It's really really nice being me I think the transformation is actually you can thank to the I am not saying that you don't need to have a need for approval right now, because you don't depend on anybody else's approval.

You know your own value as absolute, infinite, total, amazing beauty. You don't really need to have anyone to affirm or confirm to you that you exist and you are valuable. You don't need the significance taken away from interactions or connections. It doesn't even come up. It doesn't even come up. Literally. Absolutely. So you don't really have to modify your behaviour to please people. And it may actually even seem that you're getting more kind of rough because you don't care. So you can get rid of all the mask by just recognising the persona. It's the personal. Persona comes from the personal. We've got a personal image about ourselves.

Haven't got that mask, what are you going to relate to? That's right. And if behaviour is modified, because I would imagine that to certain extent I'm going to be more gentle speaking to the lady and more gentle to speak to another Aussie bloke while having a beer or watching a football. But this modification doesn't come from the need for approval or whatever. It just comes from the natural gentleness or natural, you know, like this is a functioning going on. And now having no esteem or no need for esteem or assurance of the esteem, that natural functioning is amusing. You actually look what is Terry gonna do or how is Katarina gonna react to this or that or the other.

I have no preferences and I have no idea. And that's cool because I don't really have to worry about it anymore. I can just with curiosity discover how the past programming of this body-mind is gonna result in acting like today I yelled at Bob I was yelling for like long while when he just scoot over in front of the big traffic running really fast and I was trying to pull him back. I had no idea that my body will react in a scream. Stop you fucking idiot. That's how it happened. We were laughing about it 30 seconds after because the car like and it stopped.

So we're still here this time. But we are over time and I promised Bob that I won't be doing it too often. So come back again and we'll continue. Thank you. Thanks, Karis.