Sailor Bob +: Non Duality on Location, 20 09 18

Everyone knows each other, don't need the names. And friendly universe has given us a question to start, because we are pretty exhausted after a big, big day walking, 15 kilometers walking along the different waters. Yeah, yeah, we had a big day. And then it's always, the beginning is always, oh my gosh, is anybody gonna ask a question? Because I don't really know where to start. I open my mouth and see what comes out. Sometimes I listen, sometimes I don't. But yeah, today, a couple of hours ago, we had a question, we got a question from someone in afar who was particularly asking for Bob to answer the question.

So I don't know if the question is in the book. We'll find it. But I have the little script. And then, you know, when Bob answers the question, because it is always about resonating, I will ask all of you to answer it, also, because it's an important question, and some of you may put it in different words. And either the man who asked the question or anybody else can actually hear the answer. So the question is, the question was in the book. Is it this question? Yes, at the moment of seeing that there is nothing that sees, the seeing is free of thought, just natural awareness of knowing.

And the way he worded the question, it says, acknowledge that seeing, which nothing is seeing, the no-thing that is seeing. Because when you do it, it will appear to last longer. Like seeing will appear to last longer, the moment when the recognition is that there is nothing that is seeing. And his experience is that where the seeing is happening, it feels very familiar, and it feels like there is a me that is looking. So even though Bob is saying there is no one looking, and see that seeing is just happening, nobody is looking, he can still feel that there is a me that is looking.

So... This is what Terry's been talking about. Oh, everyone's talking about this. It's really a question that boils down to everything that non-duality has to say about the me, about the no-me, the absence of me, and the feeling of artificial sense of, of sense of presence hijacked by the conceptual image. So, go for it. Answer the question. He was precisely asking for you to answer the question. What do you mean that no one is seeing? What do you mean that it is going to be lasting apparently longer if you acknowledge it? And why does he still feel that there is a familiar feeling of me that is looking?

Well, who's seeing? The thought comes up, I see. Doesn't it? Yeah. But can the thought, I see, actually see? Anyone who is not seeing right now, you have to put that thought, I see, on it, which we do, before you think that. Isn't seeing happening? Hearing's happening? Tasting, touching, smelling, they're all happening? But to translate it, just say, I see. But who is the seer? Isn't it a thought, I see? Can a thought see? Can a thought hear? Can a thought be aware? So the thought, I see, cannot see. The thought, I hear, can't hear. The thought, I know, is not the knowing. So you've formed a subject in the belief that I see.

You've formed a concept of a seer, me. And who is me? Me, translated, is myself. We look at that and say, my body. And you know, you're not the car, you're not the coat, you're not the hat or anything else. Maybe you're not the body either. Same thing as saying, my mind. And again, as you know, you're not the coat or the hat. Maybe you're not the mind either. And when you say, I, myself, instead of saying that that's just another concept you put on, you put it on this persona, the mask, the me, the egoic me, that thinks it's seeing. Instead of saying, I, self, just the same as I see, I hear, without putting a personal conceptual image on it, it is just plain seeing.

And there's anybody who's not seeing right now without labelling it, even before you label it, as you label it and after you label it. What's the label? The word or the concept? Is the word the thing? That's what I'm saying. Can a thought see? Can a thought hear? We go into that every time we talk about it here. See, there's no seer, there's only seeing. The thought I see means the subject, the seer. I see the chair of seeing becomes the object. So seeing is seemingly divided into subject, object. But is it ever divided? You know? If the seeing is there, without the seer and the seen, there's no division in it.

And then you recognise that all division is conceptual. There's no me that sees. No me that hears. But we take in the belief that there is and then the question. So when you say, instead of my self, you see it's that one self, as I say, it's non-dual. It's not a personal self. And then we put the persona or the mask on all these questions. The mask is a conceptual image. So there's no mask on it. It's just pure seeing. Seeing, hearing, tasting, touching, smelling. Or wearing, whatever you like to call it, a thigh. So there's no me, personal self, that'll ever become enlightened, ever become realised, ever become anything.

That needs to be said. Everybody that comes here, comes in here originally, they're either going to get something or become something. But it'll never happen. Because you try to make the conceptual image become something solid and real. Though it appears to be, but it can't. So I is the one self. Not a personal self. So it's that self, one self, the soul self, not S-O-U-L, but S-O-L-E. That one self is appearing and expressing as everything. So how about this familiar feeling? That sort of an intimate feeling of familiarity that there is a me, it feels like. Well, of course, these concepts become very familiar. But how often have you repeated them, believed them?

How often has all those around you reinforced you and told you? Naturally it's familiar. You go back to the old pattern, where it's seemingly located. Look, as Terry told you, to where it's located. Can you find a location anywhere? Something seemingly solid, substantial? Look into it. Go into it. Instead of moving away from it, go into it. Try and make it. If that feeling's coming from that, try and make it real. Look at it as hard as you can. Then you realize, if I'm looking at it, that is not O-M, because I'm looking at it from seemingly somewhere else. Maybe you think your head or your heart or your body, something.

Well, go back and look at that. Where's that looking from? And you'll find a point where that's looking from. Go back a bit further, and you'll find there's no point there that there's anybody, any separation or any personal self, can see or hear or taste or touch from. So it's all a pure seeing. That's all I can think of at the moment. There's probably plenty more there. Okay, so I'll just add one thing, and I'll let you, Terry, because they hear it from you. The feeling of familiarity is the closest, most intimate feeling that it is actually familiar. It's the feeling of the being, the sense of presence.

If we are expecting that that feeling of being alive or being present is going to go away somewhere, it's not going to happen. The feeling of I am is the primordial feeling. Now, whether that feeling of I am is hijacked by that personal self, the conceptual image, I am inferior, I am unworthy, I am whatever, of course, then that very basic, primordial sense of aliveness is limited to the painful sense of suffering, of isolation and separation, because now there is a little separated, isolated, confined me and the world out there that is not in a sense of oneness. But the basic sense of I am, if it's not dressed up as anything, as any persona, the mask, is a beautiful, loving-to-be sense of awareness of being, the Sat Chit Ananda, and that very familiar sense of being, we can say that's what is looking out.

And it's not a problem, because that feeling, that sense of presence, that primordial sense of being alive, looking out, is not an object looking out, it's not the identity looking out, it's the person looking out. It's pure consciousness looking out, it's pure nothing looking out. Only the story says that this is something else, this is something separated, or the ego. Like when we look at the animals, they also see, the seeing is happening for them too, but they don't have a story about what they are. They don't have inferiority complex. They may be an alpha male, or they may be the last one in the tribe, but they don't have a problem with that, because the life is running them the same way the life is running the camera in the computer.

Like there is no one to say that I am seeing through the camera. Same with this bio-computer. It doesn't really need any entity to actually switch on and off the seeing. It is happening naturally, spontaneously. And the familiarity, there's something that is closer than the heartbeat, the sense of aliveness, the sweet sense of existence, if it's not translated into the pain of life coming from the sense of separation or the mask that we put, the jacket that we put of concepts on ourselves. There's nothing wrong with that. Still, now, look who is looking, and you will see that there is no face there, no eyes there.

Eyes are not being experienced. Face is not being experienced. It's just sense of space that is looking out into the space. So this is to be verified. This is to be checked. And you want to add something? Yeah, well, you feel that, like it manifests as a knot in the guts or a lump in the throat or an ache in the heart or something like that. Look at it. Go into it. Make it worse. You know, you're looking at it from somewhere else. Well, try and make it worse. Put all your energy and all your intention in making it worse. You know? And it's amazingly enough, all the energy going into that, there's nothing going into the sensation there.

It disappears and you finish up laughing at it. Yeah. Yeah, that's a very good practical... Nothing... Yeah, well, I used to do that. A lot of people... A lot of them couldn't go there. Wouldn't want... Didn't want to go there. And try and jump away, fearful of looking right into it. See how bad... If this centre is there, seeing that a lot of the guts are still there, make it worse. And you see, the energy can't be in two places at once. So if you're putting it all into the looking at it, into the thought and the guts, it can't... Well, whatever it is, it can't last.

Because nothing can live without energy. And it falls away. Becomes a big jerk. And it'll come reinvent itself, seemingly for a while, out of habit. But once you've laughed at it and seen the falseness of it, it's never going to be the same again. That's when they told me I wasn't a body, I was a mind. I saw that. Went out the door and was stuck in the mind again. But it was never the same. How could it be? When you see something is false, it's not real. And that's the difference with the psychological, not in the guts or the lump in the throat, it's psychological.

It's made by the mind. It's different from a physical pain. If you've got a physical pain, then it's totally different. That's the body telling you everything is not right here. Well, we've got to do something about it. But the psychological stuff we suffer from, it's not necessary. It might come of it, but it's no big deal anymore. It hasn't been a big deal for years. Not taken any notice of it. Beautiful. You happy, Terry? Yeah. Cool. Can I just say, on the way here today, I was thinking of questions exactly about this. Cool. So I don't know how... That's how the universe works. Yeah. Exactly this question.

Intelligent. Well, are you separate? No. Well, why shouldn't it happen? Yeah. No, I can tell you. Okay. Yes. It's a wonderful question. And I know somebody else that's questioning the same thing that's a bit stuck there. That cat touched on it. The last thing that I experienced in relation to the conceptual me was it claiming ownership of the body, claiming ownership of all the sensations, claiming ownership of the senses. In other words, I hear, I see. This is my seeing. This is my hearing. But even closer than that was claiming ownership of this sense of presence. That was the last thing I saw. Just prior to that was the actual seeing that I'm not the body, that I'm not the sensations, that I'm none of that.

Now, for a long time, you know, conceptually, I understood that I wasn't the body. Made perfect sense. Made perfect sense. But I didn't know that. And it seemed for myself that there was more of a an inclination to at first see what went on in the mind. Just all the stuff that went on that went on in my mind. So that that got seen first. But what I also kind of lumped into that was yeah, I'm not the body. I'm not the thoughts and yeah, I'm not the body. And I kind of thought I dealt with that. Dealt with it. Yep. See, I'm not that.

Totally see I'm not that. And much to my surprise I eventually got to a point where I understood that I wasn't anything that the mind could throw up. I understood that there wasn't anything that the mind could throw up. Yet, I've said it here a hundred times. I still felt like I was here. I still felt like I was stuck. Now, that was really disconcerting. And it it raised questions. Just like the question that's being asked. Yep, I'm aware. I'm seeing. I feel present rather than I am present. Huge difference. Note. Huge difference. And I didn't know what to do. I kind of literally didn't know what to do.

And I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I went to the to I do know, actually. But it was the last thing to dawn on me was that there, this, yep, I still feel stuck. What's going, like, what's happening there? Like, and, you know, the last thing that dawned on me was that this conceptual me, this me-ness, this idea of myself that still felt like it was here and real and in the body, that conceptual me, what it was doing, Kat used the word before and it was beautiful. The me was still.

Hijacking the body and that sense of presence. Because the me believed that that sense of presence was in the body and it's mine. It's mine. It's my sense of presence. And I heard myself saying that. This is my sense of presence. Oh, who said that? Who the fuck said that? Like, and it... It became, like, the looking into at that point, who said that became laser focused. Because there was nothing else at all for me to negate or look at. It was just that. What is that? Who is that? And I saw, I saw the last niggling thing that this sense of me was hanging on to.

You know, it was... That sense of presence. And the body. And the body. It was hanging on to that as well. And I would have thought that dropped off ages ago. Like, ages ago. The reason that was last to kind of drop off and to be seen by me is because that sense of presence is experienced here. It's experienced here. That sense of presence. And... You know, I... Didn't realize that that me-ness or that me-ing-ness had actually latched onto it. Like... And it's been that way all my life. Well, you know, all my life. And the question of, you know, was talking about seeing. And being aware of seeing.

And yet, it still felt like there was a me here. That was doing the seeing. Or there still felt like there was a me here that was present. That was aware. And actually was just claiming ownership of those things. This is my seeing. This is my awareness. This is my hearing, etc. And what I did was one of the old, earlier things that I looked at in regards to thought. And that was... I realized that thought... If I have control over thought, I should be able to stop it. Or... I should at least be able to change what goes on in there. And I saw that I couldn't do that.

Like... I just saw that I couldn't do that. So I applied that same principle to this little me-chimp. This little me that's in here. Can it choose not to be? Can it choose not to see? Can it choose not to hear? If it's claiming ownership of it, over these things, that's mine, then it should be able to do things with it. And I discovered it can't. It can't actually do anything with it. With that sense of being. And the reason it feels so familiar to me... He's talking about... Yep, they're seeing, but it still feels like there's a me here. The reason it feels so familiar is because that sense of presence is there.

That sense of here-ness is there. It's always been there. That's why it feels familiar. The problem is there's an identity there, claim and ownership of it. And that needs to be seen. And that's why I'm saying that. And that's why I'm saying that. And that's why I'm saying that. And that needs to be seen. You need to actually go looking for that. Laser pointed. Who is that? Where is that? Like all the other stuff is over. I know I'm not that thought, that thought, that thought. Those experiences in my life and... There's a lot of data to kind of sift through when it comes to looking at all the stuff that goes on in the head.

But when that drops away, and you finally come back to... Yep, okay, but I still feel like I'm here. Then the self-inquiry at that point gets really, really simple. Really simple. Just look there. Look there. Try and find it. Literally. Try and find it. That that is saying. Um... When I'm seeing, there still feels like, you know, there's a me here. Who's saying that? What is that? Look for that. Like literally, look for that. And, you know, I thought for a long time that, um, I was going to experience something different to... Being. That's a reaction. To being. I thought I was going to experience something different to being.

Because being just felt... Boring. Pretty bland. Pretty... Pretty bloody ordinary. What I discovered is, yeah, that beingness or that awareness or that aliveness, when understood through that false sense of me, is bland to the false sense of me. Very bland. Like, where are the bells and whistles in that? You know? Like, I'm, you know, like... And... Well, I might get slapped across the wrist for saying this by Bob after the meeting, but anyway. Um... There are bells and whistles in that sense of presence and that awareness. There are. But it is not experienced... Ugh. I hate using that word, but anyway. Uh... It is not experienced until that me is finally, finally seen through.

And it departs. And in... And in the absolute departure of that, this sense of being and this sense of presence that we find ever so ordinary just expands. I don't know how else... How else to... To verbalize that. But it does. And it is fucking... Amazing. But it happens in and of itself. Or by itself. Me just needs to be fucking out of the way. Absent. You know? And it's not even pushing it aside or trying to make it absent. It's just seeing it for what it really is. It's just a thought. Oh my God. But the me and the self are in the same ballpark.

I mean, neither... Neither can control seeing. No. No. No. But... But... But... But... But... But... But... But... But... But... But... But... But... But... When you say self, what are you referring to? Well, the capital S overarching... So... So, the capital S can't what? Well, it... It can't stop itself seeing. If anyone wants to say something, I can see them. If you take the boundaries off it, of course, it must expand. But the question starts off with keep seeing that there is no thing that sees. That's what this.... That's a seaming... A seaming thing. you realize all this manifestation is made up of things. You and I are things.

The carvers are things. The sky is a thing. The trees are things. They're all things. But none of them, none of those things can see. So the seeing is happening. So when you drop all the concepts about it, you haven't stopped seeing what it says. Keep seeing that there is no thing that sees. No thing. And that's what you actually are. No thing. But everyone is seeing right now. Hearing, tasting, touching, smelling. And the thing is this encapsulated me. We put it in the conceptual, which is keeping it like putting it in a barrel. It's locked in the barrel. When it's seen through, the barrel expands and what and that natural spontaneous joyousness, if you like to call it that, we put a label on that too.

But it's naturally there. Can I ask you a question? Because I can't help but notice, because that is exactly right. That is like, exactly right. Exactly what I'm experiencing. It's like, it's like thought is like this weird trippy movie that like, I'm like, I haven't thought of that in like a decade. Like, and it just kind of, I'm like, there's no way I could have thought to have thought that. Like it just kind of, so that I see very clearly. You have to forgive me using the word I, but I can see that very clearly. I don't, and I can see that I'm not the body.

Like I don't grow much. I don't grow much. I don't grow much. I don't grow much. I don't grow much. I'm like the energy that comes from my hair. Or I don't arrange the optical nerve to do that. I don't do that. But I feel like if I, in all earnestness, I live in the body, I don't feel like I am it. Itself. So it's as though if the body was to die, I would die in it. Like I don't feel like I am it, but I feel like ... … I actually know, I don't, and some of us, some of us, some of us feel Salomo, and I live inside it and of course conceptually I can understand that that's not true either but that is my experience that I feel like I live in it almost like I live yeah that's exactly what I'm saying I live inside it yeah well whatever but like I was just going to ask you like it's like I live in the stomach almost do you know what I mean in the solar plexus yeah that's exactly right that's where the seeming life came into the body through the solar plexus through the umbilical cord of your mother into the umbilical cord of you as a little embryo the life essence came through that and grew it from there but that life essence is not bound by anything it's seemingly in the body but what's the body appearing can you separate the body from space can you separate the sound from space from silence separate the stillness from movement you can't no that's right and when you say I'd like to tell you like it's a knife trying to cut itself when you're going into the mind the sword can't cut itself the knife can't cut itself at all I can't help but notice that you know how you go look like in self-inquiry we go looking for the me right?

and I and even if I'm looking for the me even if I look at the stomach or whatever and I feel that tightening or that chronic kind of almost like muscular tension like that kind of feeling right? like who who that's a thought going into the physical certainly affecting the physical if that thought wasn't there would you get a knot in the stomach? I don't know what thought it is the thought the conceptual the image you've got about yourself me Max the conceptual image you've got about yourself because I can't help but notice when life isn't causing through the body could you have any thought?

no and you didn't have any thought until you learnt words and yet you were living in the nine months of conception and a couple of years after that before you learnt any words and when you learnt words that's when the separation came upon you through the words I or me and that word the mental can affect the physical that's what psychology is all about I just I run into this wall though because I can't help but notice that okay so let's say like you said laser pointed on that what is that that's doing the pointing right where are you looking from? exactly right because the thing is like if I supposedly I do not exist literally then what is that that is looking at because if I because let's say that came undone right wouldn't that one that looked and saw through the what's that?

well you see you see one looking at it has that one ever been something substantial and real that's looking at it you've taken to believe through all the conceptual ideas we've taken on and reinforced over the years but can the thought I see in you can the thought I see can the thought I think think can the thought I'm looking at it can that be what you earlier can a thought do any of these things? no without the thought you're still seeing you're still hearing take a question but you're not relating it to a conceptual image that's stirring up seemingly causing the physical because it's affecting the body as well but if you locate it precisely like the way you are saying that you are looking from here where is the here is it a head or where is it?

where is the one who is actually giving that laser point at the belly? I can't find a spot in which it starts no not a spot not a spot just an area like it is not in Sydney no no no no no it's here it's here and it's like this like you say sense of I am or sense of awareness that is looking looking is not it but that is aware of that feeling or feeling of I you're always aware of that that is what I'm asking that's what I say that's the conceptual image that somebody is aware of you can't find it you've looked a long time hard and fast but you've never found it maybe it might just dawn on you that there's nothing there we believe there's something there that's looking the seeing is happening the looking is happening and you can't find it well it's not there it might just dawn on you maybe there's nothing there see I was doing that exercise at some point and it really helped me and I was walking few people through it and it helped them too like there was a point in which I was supposed to locate where is that sense of presence so I located it kind of like a vibration in here now I was asked to locate the one who knows about it who is the one who knows about it who is the one who knows about it who is the one who knows about it who is aware of that vibration so I was locating it somewhere maybe behind the back of my head I heard other people locating it in front or you know it's a personal thing but for me the location was about there so now I was asked where am I locating that out there from and now when I was actually honestly looking there is a knowing about that location looking at that location and that location the moment I do another step back gets more vague gets more spacious it doesn't have even a vague area from which I am aware it expands until the point that it completely disappears in space and now the last step is oh shit I'm nothing assuming the location vague location here looking at the little more precise location here and and aware of even more precise location here but the more you step back the more vague and spacious that awareness become and the last step where you can't even you can't go more spacious like now I'm the whole universe all the galaxies being aware of that certain locations but now who is aware of the galaxies all the galaxies are happening within me I am the awareness manifesting the whole world manifesting the over the galaxies manifesting the body manifesting the location around my head looking at the vibration in the belly just really step back as much as you can unless you left with nothing and you always realize that some whenever you look back to try and find what's looking it's not you are looking at that from somewhere else that's the answer yes that's brilliant that's the answer that is the answer yes that is really cool that's ultimate freedom yeah That's a static point anywhere in your dog.

That's brilliant. I've got technology in me then. And it always works. Every time you look what is looking, you see there's, oh my gosh, there's just space, like awareness looking out. It's nothing there. You may actually see the mind coming up with the label or with shape of the body or shape of the face, but this is just a mental image. Just push it away. I'm like, what's the experience? Like what is looking if you don't have a concept, if you don't have an idea or image? What is like, if you, what are you if you don't have a thought or idea about being body or mind?

What are you without any shape that you give yourself? Because it feels like yes, I'm using the body for looking. If I'm blind, I won't be seeing. So of course, I'm in a way my body, but I'm not. This is just the equipment I'm using. It's just like I'm using the voice box. Like the computer is using the speaker system, but there's no one in the computer who claims the ownership of the speaker system or camera. And if you can't find any static point when you're looking, where's the eye then? The eye is the idea that it's a reference point we're looking from. What is it then?

You can't find a static point to it. So could you say when you come down to it, all there is, is sensations in space? Yeah, absolutely. Nothing? Nothing else. Yeah, movement in stillness. Vibration. And it's only concepts that try to put it into a context. Yeah, put labels or words on it. And shape the whole universe by labeling things out of nothingness and creating form out of that nothingness. Like Bob is saying, it is intelligence energy shaping all different forms and patterns through the vibration, through the movement. Different vibration will make a sound. Different vibration will make a light. Yet different vibration will create the atoms and the matter.

It's all that. All that one. Only conceptually you divide it into me and the other. Sound and silence. You're like the world. You're like the world. Yes. Yes, the world is transmitted and received at the same time through the conditioning, through the software, the programming that has been. Like Bob is beautifully saying, when you are little, you get the idea that you are a separate self. You are the body. You are the body. And now, because you cannot do much with that sense of presence walking in the body, you claim the capacity of seeing. Now I have the capacity of seeing. I am doing the seeing.

Who is doing the seeing? Who can say my eyes are open and my eyes are healthy and now I decide not to see. It's not going to work. And even if it would work, because perhaps there is a way to switch off certain networks in the brain. Even if it would work. It's so tough. I am totally thought dependent and I can't produce the thought. The thought, if it appears, decision is made, choice is made. If it doesn't, nothing happens. Or the idea, people have the idea, oh of course I can work on my thoughts. Of course I can change negative thinking to positive thinking.

Provided the thought of changing arises. Because if it doesn't, nothing you can do. It all comes about in that belief in myself. Yes. You know you're not the body when you look into it or you're not the mind. But the self is my self. We take that to be the real. And that's the reference point which we take to be real and solid instead of investigating. It's I-self. There's no me or my doing. Everything is I. That's how Ramana Maharshi finished up with the thing. What is the question asked? Who am I? He came in and said there's nothing left but I-I. And that's just a concept also.

Yes. And one thing that Terry touched upon and that's really important. That's what was actually a stress of Nisargadatta's teaching. The diamond of good fortune. To dwell in the I am, yeah. Is to dwell in the I am to exclusion. And discard the intellect. Discard everything else to the exclusion of everything else. Because now I can dwell in the I am. And as you said, rightfully so, the I am seems blunt and boring and seems like nothing to the mind because mind is so juicy. You can get dramas there. You can get tastes. You can get all sorts of different entertainment fireworks. But if you dwell in the I am to the exclusion of the mind, to the exclusion of all that entertainment, it is a diamond.

It will shine. And that's also illustrated in the scriptures in Isaiah. Be still and know that I am is God, not me, the person. See, I am, well, that's present. That's just a label. That's the way it is. That's the label we put on it. Just the same as the word God is a label. And not the God either. In the beginning was the word. That's what, and all these come about because we learnt words. And the word's never the thing. What was Cappie saying? Go for it, go for it. What Cappie was saying about that stepping back. Yeah. You know, there'll be, um, hmm, I don't know, I don't know.

I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I'm going to say a couple of steps back. There'll be a couple of steps back where the, the question will arise in you. Okay, now, who's that? What's that? Yeah. But eventually what happens is, and that's this, this is the blessing part of it. Eventually what happens is that question stops arising. It all stops. All the questions stop. It just all stops. Yeah. there's just the abiding there and it opens it opens and it's it can't be experienced by the conceptual me can't be experienced by that it's just you know it's father christmas so it's not real it's not true it can't be experienced by that so your original question was yeah okay there's kind of knots here or there's a contraction here who or what is it that's aware of that yeah so there's that question that comes up so there's a step back from that okay so then you try and figure out what what's that where's that and you'll find that that in that process the awareness just starts expanding just just It just does.

It's like a kind of bit like a flower opening up. It just starts to just literally by itself starts to expand. And then you might get to a point of this kind of a vastness, but still kind of feel like I'm here. You know, OK, what is it that's aware of this, that? And then just is I often use the expression relax back into this. Relax back into this and have cat verbalized. That is exactly what I'm talking about. Just there's a there's a stepping back. And even I loved it when you said, you know, kind of felt like it was here. That's absolutely where it felt like it was for me.

Absolutely. Absolutely where it was. It was so, so close that I wasn't seeing it. I wasn't even so close. I wasn't aware of it. So close. So that, you know, if you've managed to get to the point where you look, I know there's no money here. Yeah. However, what is it that's aware of that? Beautiful. What is it that knows that? What is it that's seeing that? There's no me here. What is that? That's that laser. And you'll find when you get there, no conceptual ideas come up around it. It's just where is it? It's a bit like losing your wallet. You've lost your wallet.

OK. And you're standing around talking to people and going into a big story about the fact that you've lost your wallet. It's got my license in there. I'm going to get that renewed. It's got my cards or my credit cards in there. Oh, God knows a little slot in there where I had all my pin numbers on it. There's a few hundred dollars in cat. The big story that goes on around the loss of the wallet. Actually, eventually that that you can stay in that story. Literally, you can just stay in that story or part of the story. Just look for the wallet. There's no story involved.

Literally in looking for the wallet. You get to a point where there's no, you do just get to a point where there's no, there is no story around it. Yes. Yeah. And me that the localizing mind actually is a magnificent achievement. If it had not gotten out of control, nothing wrong with it at all. Uh, it's really super wonderful. Yes, but it's. It's just that it's become the master. That's the only thing. Exactly. Yeah. And that's and that is only a problem. It becoming a master. That is only a problem if you're if you become aware of that being a problem for others that aren't even aware of that being a problem.

It's perfect. Just is. That's perfect. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So that's, you know, what? When you get involved with this and you start that form of self inquiry, that's the sort of stuff you see. Yeah. So as I keep saying to you, relax back into the eye, relax back there. And if it means you're doing a little bit more inquiring as to, oh, hang on a minute. What is it that's aware of? Fine. Go there. But you can do it in a really relaxed way, like in a calm way. Yeah. And I ask who is the questioner and the obvious answer I am. And if the questioner, I am the questioner and the question is coming from me, the questioner is the question.

No questioner, no question. What happened? Cancel each other out. Nothing. You can ask the questioner if the questioner itself, the concept you got the, oh, I'm asking the questioner. The questioner is nothing. but the question, nothing else, nothing else. And I know that sounds weird. That is what it is. Because the questioner is nothing but a thought. And the question is a thought. So without the questioner, the question can't arise, and they both cancel each other out. And the wonderful thing is, in that cancelling out process, you don't disappear. You're still here. Oh, my God. But you're not relating to a reference point anymore, a questioner.

Yeah, and Bob was explaining that split, and I think you already said it today, but maybe it's worthy of repeating, the split. How the seeing, seer, and the seen, or questioner, questioning, and the question, how they are conceptually divided, and they can't exist without each other, so they're not divided at all. Can you? Well, the functioning is going on. There's everybody seeing, hearing, tasting, touching, smelling. Questioning. And thinking, questioning, or thinking. And then the thought comes up, I see, or I hear, or I taste. So you've formed a subject. This conceptual image you've got about yourself, me, Bob, the Australian, the good fellow, or whatever image you've got about yourself, now thinks it has the capacity of seeing, hearing, tasting, touching, smelling.

A thought up conceptual image. And the question, you know, I'm seeing, what am I seeing? I'm seeing that, this room, the mirror, the lights, and everything, that's become the object. The thought I see has become the subject. So now the totality is divided into subject, object. Seer and seen, taster and touched, tasted, thinker and thought, feeler and felt. But can there be a seer, if there wasn't seeing? No. When we say in the start-ups, when you see, when you keep seeing, that there is no thing that sees. Pointing out that seeing is going on without relating to a thing. So there can't be a questioner, or a seer, without the seeing.

There can't be a thinker without the thinking. Can't be a doing without the doing. Same thing you do with whatever it is. So subject, object, are conceptual images. Mm. It's only pure seeing, hearing, tasting, touching, smelling, breathing, heart beating. It's all one essence, doing, and on totality. Everything is it. And if you've got nothing to relate to, to divide it to, what's going to happen? Terry says the cage of bondage we've built around ourselves, the concepts, expands. And you'll see you're full of the natural state of being. And it's not going to stop the seeing, eating, tasting, touching, the functioning from going on, but you can't give it any credence anymore.

You can't believe it for very long at all. You don't believe it at all after a while. But it still comes up. That's the way the functioning goes on. I'm questioning. I question. Whereas the truth is, there's just question. It's got nothing to do with an I. There's just thoughts. It's got nothing to do with an I or a me. Everything just is. But what we do, we claim ownership of it and say it's mine. Mm. My seeing, my hearing, my tasting, my touching, my awareness. Me that can see. Me that can see I'm not that and this and that. Me that is aware of that not or that sensation in here.

There's just a sensation in there. There's not a me that's aware of it. It's just that. An awareness of that. But it's not mine or your awareness. Something. You want to add something? When you say I don't like this or I don't want that, you know, what are you relating to? A conceptual image. If you're not relating to that image, could you give a shit what anybody says or thinks or does? What resonates will resonate. It'll be taken aboard naturally. And what doesn't goes over your head. You couldn't care less about it. It's not good enough. We put the blockage on ourselves when we're like, you know, I don't want to hear this or I can't stand that.

It's not good enough. And that all comes from the division subject object because the way Terry was looking at it a little bit differently and Bob a little bit differently, they're both valid, absolutely. But the way, like Bob is saying, seeing is happening. But there is the seeing is divided into the one who is seeing and the one, the object that is seeing. Now questioning is happening. It's divided into the questionnaire. And the question. So seemingly there is one process going on, one movement going on. And now we have what seems like for the mind there is someone who asks the question and there is a question that has been asked.

It seems like there is two. And it does. Of course. But now if there is someone who asks the question, the questioner, but there is no question, can we even call that the questioner? We can't. The questioner disappears if there is no question. We can't even call it a questioner. There is no questioner without the question. And the same way the questioning is a process, is a movement like all the vibration, vibrating energy functioning. And now if there is no question, the same thing happens. The questioner didn't arise. So they arise simultaneously just like a seer in the scene. Let's say I'm a looker. I'm looking at the chair out there.

But if there is no chair, I'm not a looker anymore. Or if there is no me, there is no looker anymore. The chair is not being acknowledged. It literally doesn't exist. The process, the movement of seeing is not happening. So questioning, seeing, hearing, tasting, touching, smelling is a natural functioning. Now out of this very, very natural functioning comes the idea that no, no, no, it's not one process. There are two things going on. The one who is looking and the one that is looking at. That's not true. It's always the, it's like almost as if there is a space. And I'm walking with that space of my gaze.

And there are different objects flowing, floating through that space of watching. But the space is not changing. The process of seeing is just one process. And there is, and it's absolutely inseparable from me looking at it. It's the content is changing of that whole space of seeing. But there is not two going on. It's just one seeing. And this division. And this division is a beautiful functional division and creates the diversity of beautiful dualistic manifestation. Thank God. It's sweet. But when it is taken for gospel, when it is taken as there is me and there is a world out there. So now I'm threatened. Now I'm not safe.

Now I have to be preoccupied with my own safety. Now I have to protect myself, defend myself, and obsess about myself. That's not necessary. If there is just space looking. And things floating through it. Space hearing. And things floating through it. There is no division. It's just a space that is witnessing functioning. There is no threat. The life is, the life is an entertainment. In the space there is a content. And there is an awareness of the content. And everything has being. And there is an awareness of being. How can I separate my being from the being of anything else? If not me. If not conceptually.

And this could be experienced with a glimpse. Like let's say I ask you now to sit as if. You didn't know how does your body look like. Like you have absolutely no idea. Don't look at your feet. But you just don't know. You don't know how is your body looking. And now just sit for a minute. Just sit. How does it feel to not have this projection going on. Now, you don't know whether your body is ending 10 centimeters from the center or is ending half a meter from the center or is ending at the end of the room. You don't know that. How is the being without the assumption that it ends with the skin?

And this, without that assumption, even with the eyes closed, is even easier. I can't define when I begin and where am I ending. I can't say my borders or my limits. If I can, that will be a concept. If I park that concept aside and I'm just focusing that I am, but what I am, I don't know. What is my limits? I don't know. How big is my body? I don't know. I may figure out, sitting with that, that again, my limits are not my limits. My limits are not my limits. My limit is as far as is my knowing. If I'm knowing about Australia, I'm knowing about the universe, I'm knowing about Milky Way and the cosmos, that's all appearing in the knowing that I am.

I am the knowing. And whatever appears in it is just the content. And if I don't have the concept that I'm here and what I know is out there, if there's no division, it's just pure knowing. Just like there is a pure spirit. There is a pure seeing. There is no need. There is just that space of knowing, moving around and experiencing content. So there's no inside and outside? No. Everything is, like Nisargadatta says, I've swallowed the world. Everything is inside the field of awareness. You can't even say inside because there is nothing outside. Inside only exists as the opposition to outside. If there is no in-out, it's just the outside.

There is no inside. It's just what is. And that see how the space and the galaxies and all that thing is conceptualized and is created the moment I'm actually thinking about it. Just like the past is created in the moment I'm recalling it. It's like I have no proof that yesterday existed unless I think about it. Like I can say, okay but yesterday I broke my leg and it's still broken today. But now, this is the story happening on top of a pure content of our being. Crazy. Crazy. Crazy. awareness, the sensation of whatever, something I call pain. So the world is actually created moment to moment through the conceptualizing, through the mental images, through the imagination.

But the only thing, if I stop imagining, if I stop projecting, the only thing that I can ever know is the knowing, the knowing itself, the awareness of being itself, the knowing being, knowing being. And seeing that and recognizing even the least little bit of it. What are you going to get? Who's going to get it? What's to acquire? You realize you can't. There's nothing you can acquire. That's building more concepts, more ideas, more images on you. So all that needs to happen then is to start discarding all the crap that we've gathered. There you go. Discarding the concept. And that's what we say often here.

It starts from the fact you already are that, whether you know it or not. And then all you've got to do is see what comes up and stopping you from seeing it. Whatever concept or idea I think is going to stop you. You're already that. Everybody is already that right here and right now. Always have been. What's stopping it? Any concept or idea or image you've got that there's something to get, something to become. Being is not becoming. Becoming applies to future time. So you are already that. And the beauty, the beautiful quote that the world has learned from you, what's wrong with right now if you don't think about it?

Like who are you if you don't think about it? What are you if you don't think about it? This was just that little glimpse that I say, if you don't know the shape of your body, you don't know how big it is. You don't have this mental image of the size of it. Without the concept of what is that thing that I call I am. What are you? What are you without the thought? What are you without thinking? Thinking about it. Because yes, the only thing that separates you from the recognition of being absolute nothing or absolute totality, either way it works as the same thing, is the concept, is the thought.

That's how far you are from understanding that you are already that. You are not far at all. It's just one thought that I am not there yet, or I am the body mind, or I am the feeling inside. It's just that one thought. That is making, that is completely, it's like a curtain over the mirror. The mirror has no judgment. It reflects everything as it is. And now that thought, I'm the Santa Claus, or I'm the dwarf, I'm a little chimp. You said chimp, a little chimp inside that is pulling the string. That thought is putting the curtain over the mirror and there nothing is reflected.

It's just the curtain of the idea. And how can you say I've lost it? I've got that concept. In the end, it's just a curtain. It's just a curtain. It's just a curtain. It's just a curtain. It's just a curtain. It's just a curtain. It's just a curtain. It's just a curtain. If you are already that, what can be taken away from that? It only dropped the concept that you haven't got it. It's almost as if you were at the stage, an actor playing a role in the movie. You're playing the role, whatever. Let's say you play a great hero, and you totally feel the role.

You totally identify with it. Yes, this is so me. And then the play is over, but you refuse to come back. You still pretend to be the actor. You still pretend to be a hero. Oh, call me the whatever, the hero. Call me the Batman or whatever. It's nonsense. Like this is a play. This is all play. We are playing to be the other. The consciousness is dressing up as the individual to experience the otherness because the oneness, the sweetness of oneness can only be tasted as the opposite to the separation. So that's the beautiful play. It's just the question of how identify you are in the moment with the role and how quickly you wake up from it.

And the Royal Academy Award winners are gliding around. Totally. We're all Oscar actors. We're so brilliant. And absolutely, and it is happening, and it will continue happening. Bob is 42 years with Clarity, and he is still dreaming to be an actor. It's just the seeing through is happening right away. It doesn't take weeks or years or whatever to see through. The seeing through is happening right away. Well, we pointed out the screen, the basic screen, the emptiness, the cognizing emptiness, the silence and the stillness and the emptiness. Everything appears on that screen. And you've got a movie screen. You've got all those bloody cowboys and Indians, hundreds of cowboys and Indians that shot and killed my mother.

And when the movie stops, what's happened to the screen? It's not full of bullet holes or the woman's are blowing up or burned down. It's still as it was, ever perfect then. The actors are all gone and disappeared. Yeah. It's unhappiness. You should especially be able to. You're an actor. Are you? Who does it for a living. Oh, really? Yeah. I thought you did a tennis coach. Both. Yeah, I did. My god. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Like that. Thank you. That max character. Yeah. That actor that goes on there is purely an act. But it's got nothing to do with the max character. Bob wants to say something.

Can you put all your effort into playing that part? That role, as well as you can. It's very tiring. Very tiring. Yeah. Yeah. It's only a role. But the truth is, you're not doing even that. Yeah. Yeah. It's the life playing. It's. And if that's thy will, if that's the god's will, or that's the consciousness wanting to play max. My gosh. If you don't object it, if you don't. Okay. Fine. Oh my gosh. Consciousness. Beautiful. I love you. If you want to be completely forgotten in the role, be it. If there is no resistance, there is no pain. There is no suffering. And now you're looking at that little play and you have fun with it.

Just the way Bob is having fun with it. I'm having fun with it. Like the cloud is coming through. Yeah. It's coming through the sky and the cloud is known to be a cloud. Like Bob is having a feeling of whatever, a little bit of a jealousy or something. And it is known to be a cloud passing, a jealousy cloud passing. And there is inside the screen or the awareness is laughing, but it's not disturbing it. It's not resisting it. It's not trying to push it down or not to feel it. Everything is welcome. Every feeling, emotion is welcome. And the waking up is moment to moment.

And this is not Bob that is waking up. There is no Bob. And the old days would hang on for days, weeks, years sometimes. Yeah. But it doesn't mean that these feelings are unavailable now. They are available. They show up. And the screen is not being touched. And the screen is knowing them for what they are. And it soon becomes amusing and you can laugh at it. Exactly. They become precious. Even anger, even irritability, even resistance is sweet. I mean, we've been going for our long walk today. We've been going in a tram. And of course, crowded trams, there are smelly trams. And of course, he will eventually find the seat that I usually want.

And there's, oh, yeah, gosh, one hour they're here. And then the curiosity. Oh, wow, this is juicy. Wow, this is interesting. And the attention completely, like the resistance arising. And there is completely no resistance toward a world. There is no word arising of the resistance. Quite the opposite. It is amazing. It is amusing. Like, wow, interesting. It's an old pattern. It doesn't mean that if you realize that everything is a game of patterns, it's just a vibration of different habits. It doesn't mean that all these habits will drop off. If there is no other habits, they will still play out. But there is no one to be bothered by it.

There's no one to be troubled by it. So the old pattern comes out. Oh, sweet. How interesting. How cool. That's the freedom. Because the idea that, oh, I will never experience resistance, I will never experience anger. Oh, my gosh, I'm not there yet because they are still arising. They are. But not to me. They are arising on the screen. The screen, the cowboys arising, the, what do you say, cowboys and Indians. Yeah. They all arising. And the screen is not being touched. And it doesn't mean that now I recognize them. I can't recognize them. I is a fiction. So nobody recognizes them. They're just showing up on the screen.

Nobody is recognizing. I mean, we use the language. We say recognizing because, well, how else we can point at, you know, this identifying with the content. But if the identification doesn't come up and the resistance shows up on the picture, but there's nobody identified with it. So it doesn't last. The next minute, the joke, gosh, the next second, the couple of seconds and it's and it's gone. And it's almost like if there was someone there that someone would say, oh, my gosh, why did you go so quickly? I didn't really have a good look at you. I come back. But there's no one there to have preference even for so-called negative emotions to stay.

So it doesn't matter. It completely doesn't matter. Whatever is the content, whatever is the movie, if the movie is about suffering. Oh, wow. That's intense. And the screen is still there. And the screen is still not offended. You want to say something? I don't want to say that. A lot of it is all habit patterns. We keep reinforcing day in, day out. And our schools and society and nation, everybody else around us reinforces it. And we reinforce it ourselves because we don't know any other way. Until we come across something like this. There is an essence waiting to hear it, apparently, because it makes you look at this stuff.

It makes you think to yourself, why do you think you've got to account for that? No, we don't. We don't. We don't. We just keep going. We just keep doing it. And if there's so much you don't see it, you keep going. And so you'll see through it. You must. Because the false cannot stand up to investigation. Know that for certain. So investigate it and fully go into it, as much as has been pointed out in different ways tonight. Go into it fully. And it will fall apart because it's not the truth. And that's the scripture saying, know the truth, the truth will set you free.

We can just see the freedom from these beliefs and false ideas, and just keep going. You can see that. and false I know, you're free of everything. You are that freedom. It's basically that process of hijacking the experiences, hijacking or kind of taking an ownership of whatever shows up. If there is a resistance showing up or there is irritability or anger showing up and now there is idea that I am angry or I am irritable or I am in resistance. That is the moment to see what is that I. Maybe it is just pure resistance. Maybe it's just this bubbling in the stomach of solar plexus and nothing else.

Maybe there isn't any I that is experiencing it. Maybe there's just what appears on the screen. And in my experience, whatever appears on the screen, there is no agent in between the experiencing, pure experiencing. There is no one that is having it. It is just pure vibration that is being labeled. And there is no necessity. There is only the belief that comes in and say, yeah, but it still feels like there is a me. It feels like the me is having that feeling of inferiority or the feeling of I am unworthy or I'm not deserving or I have to strive harder or whatever. There is no me having the feeling.

There is just the vibration showing up in the stomach or in the body or in the throat. And the body is the mirror. The body is the medium through which this experiencing is happening. The body is the screen in that moment. But also the body appears in the awareness. So not only the body is a screen for the sensations, but also the whole body is a content in the awareness. Because the sensations are known on the body and the body is known in the pure awareness. Not that there are two steps, there is really one. But it may be easier to recognize the bubbling life.

When Bob is beautifully saying it, when you experience fear or anxiety, it feels like, when you label it, it feels like you load yourself down with every previous fear or anxiety. And it feels so heavy and it feels so real and it feels so overwhelming that you can't say that it's pure awareness having it. Of course it's me, I'm confined, I'm terrible, I'm horrible. But when the label is taking off and there is a natural curiosity going on, now there is this sensation that I would normally call anxiety, by relating it to past memories and comparing it with what I've learned from other people, with that mental process going on, that sensation is labeled from the past.

Now if I'm curious and I take that label off, what is happening? There is probably some sort of a contraction going on. But even contraction is a label. If I take that label also, there is just a movement, it's a vibrating, pulsating, throbbing movement going on. And if I don't have preference and I'm just curious about that movement, in a moment there was... there won't be any resistance. The curiosity will say, that's juicy, yum. That movement that I used to call anxiety is a beautiful, beautiful search of life. And now, of course, same applies to pain. And it's not always even possible to take the label off and watch it.

Sometimes it's just going to be labeled and it can be watched as a sensation with the label or sensation and the label on top. But if there is a genuine curiosity, this identification is very, very easy and natural. The moment curiosity comes in and we can see actually what is happening, what type of sensations are happening, how fast do they vibrate, where are they located, how dense or hard they are. Sometimes you can even feel like... I was guiding a friend once through the phone and she could feel that there is like an iron ball in her skin. She was like, oh, I'm going to die.

She was like, oh, I'm going to die. She was like, oh, I'm going to die. She was like, oh, I'm going to die. She was like, oh, I'm going to die. Solar plexus. Like she was, yeah, she was very, she had actually, she had a panic attack. She could not breathe. And she was describing how heavy it was, like really solid, gray, metallic, heavy substance there. And I said, okay, okay, just keep watching. Keep watching. Look, look at this. Now, sometimes you can distract yourself with actually seeing how this one is serving you, how this one wants you to. Be safe. Because, you know, if there is a hard story going on, yes, they're bullying me at work.

And now this anxiety is kind of protecting me against it is actually an act of self-love telling me that, oh, my gosh, I love this one. I want to be safe. But this is only when the story is dense, when the story is not that dense, but there's just a physical sensation. The moment attention goes into describing it, looking at it, it naturally goes out of the way. And that's the point of sustaining it. The attention is only kind of, it only has certain amount of like megabytes or whatever, the bits of information that it can invest into it. Like there are certain numbers, I'm not quite sure, 200,000 out of 200 millions or whatever that brain can process the bits of information.

So now this processing capacity was invested in sustaining the sensation. The moment it start looking at sensation with the curiosity. The processing capacity goes out of sustaining it and it is not going to last. The longer you look, the sooner the lumps, guts, what was it? Nuts in the guts and lump in the throat. Hike in the heart, knot in the guts. Yeah. I just, I just love your language. I love your language because you just, he puts two, three words and it, and it sticks and it's, ah, boy, beautiful. Anyway, the longer you look at what is really happening. There, the less you will experience it.

So that friend that I was guiding, I don't know, was it two minutes, three minutes, three minutes and the ball wasn't that solid anymore. It was half transparent. It wasn't really metal anymore. It was kind of a cloud and another four or five minutes later, oh my God, I'm not panicking anymore. My breathing is all right. Shit. Yeah, that's, that's how it works. It's just, it's all imaginary. It's all believed in. And the moment it is investigated, it comes back to its true nature and true nature of every form is emptiness. There's always the moment you take up investigation, you're going to end up finding the true nature of thing.

Doesn't matter what the investigate. If you investigate the eye, you'll find that I is nothing. If you investigate the chair, come close, get the microscope. Look at the electron microscope. You'll still find this nothing because everything is nothing. So this is the end result. If we don't reach that state of understanding everything that appears as nothing, just keep investigating. That's it. And of course, investigations also just to happen, it's not a choice because it's thought-dependent or the natural desire or longing-dependent, whatever. It's nobody there to make a decision or make a choice or do investigation. It happens or it doesn't. But the probability that it happens seems to be rising when you expose yourself to the frequency, when you're already in love with that frequency of pointing.

So just keep resonating. Thank you, Max. The last two or three weeks I've had a quite nice rest. You come along and snap me out of it. Thank you. Thank you, Max. We were really waiting for Bob to speak more. Cool. That's, yeah. Beautiful, that. Huh? It all fits in, those things. Things happen like that, you know. We'll come along and change things, turn things around. Beautiful. Thank you. You were saying, Kat, and Bob says it too. I'm so, so happy. What I've noticed is that there's still some habit patterns that come up. Yeah. As a thought, like, I'm guessing 90% of it has dropped off.

90%. Yeah? I'm guessing around there, yeah? And that 10% of stuff that comes up now, it rarely, and I mean, and when I say it comes up, it's just a thought that will come up, but it rarely now manifests down into the body. Rarely does that happen. Yeah. I remember when we were driving along in the car that night, and I was driving, I was the driver, and I just kind of reaching down, fumbling for something. The next thing I know, I looked up, and I drifted over into the other lane with the car coming that way. I just, like... We were very close. Turned and just missed sideswiping the car that came in the other direction.

Hmm. And once that would have had me pull the car over, my heart would have been bouncing out of my chest. It would have taken me probably half an hour to kind of recover from it. But then what I'd also be left with after that half an hour is the story around it. So I might recover physically from it. Heart settles down, not as much anxiety. But then there'd be the thought, God, what if that, what's wrong with me? Like... Jeez, I could have killed the both of them. There'd be a big story attached to it, you know, and that could last for days. Yet now what I find, like, when that happened, my heart didn't even skip a beat.

Because the car was gone, and we were past it. Nothing actually happened. And I then just kind of resumed communicating to Max, like, nothing happened. Hmm. Cool. You know? And that, you know, that... I'll see stuff arise now. Like, I'll see a thought that will arise now. But it's kind of really... Compared to what it used to be like, it's really vague. And it kind of... It's... I'm not wearing them anymore. Not wearing any of the thought that might come up. Not... It's the only way I know how to describe it, really. So... You know... Uh... Uh... I noticed that when, um... When I'm driving, I used to be a shocking, um...

Road rager. Road rager. Yeah, but I was the anonymous road rager. I'd do it with my windows up and nobody would hear it. But I'd be fucking going ballistic inside the car. You fucking morons. Going off, you know. Um... I was kind of around on political correctness too. So I was always careful not to throw it onto somebody. But I'd fucking... I'd fucking throw it around on the inside of the car. You know? And, uh... And, uh... You know... A few months ago, I was driving... And now that... Occasionally, that pattern will come up in me. And I'll do one or two things. It'll come up.

And as soon as it comes up, I laugh. Like I literally... I start laughing. Which is fabulous, by the way. I'll just start laughing. You know? Um... But what I also realized a little while ago is that every single solitary thing... And I mean virtually every single solitary thing that other drivers do on the road that fucking piss me off. All right? They shouldn't be doing that. You know, rah, rah, rah. Every fucking thing. At some point in time in my life, I've done the same thing. And I mean exactly the same thing. Yeah? Yeah. I'll get behind someone in an 80K zone. They'll be crawling along doing 40.

I'm like, get out the fucking way. You know? And I've done that. Because I might be reading a map or something. Or the car might not be running well. And I have to... You know? It's running on three cylinders instead of four. That's the most I... Whatever. And now it's... How I am... I'm not... I'm not... I'm not... I'm not... I'm not... I'm not... I'm not... I'm not... I'm not... I'm not... I'm not... I'm not... I'm not... How I am now when I drive on the road, I just do a lot of laughing. It's a huge switch around from r eyesight, you know, like, I do a lot of laughing.

You know? Can you sit at the side, you know, down the road. That's what just happened with my… You know? You know? He's down the road now, he's not... Not working that jacket though, he's gone. I'll never see him again, whether it was he or her, whoever it was, why worry about it? Something just passed, you know? And you drop it, you just... That's the beauty of not hanging onto the past, is the way Bob is saying, no cloud is glued to the sky, no thought is glued in the head. Once it's gone, it's gone. Why dwell on it? Why miss out on life that is happening fresh and new right at this moment?

I saw somebody of my car doing what I used to do. His windows were up, he's stuck in traffic, like everybody else, everyone's stuck in traffic, and he's going off, like right off, banging a fucking steering wheel like this and looking around and... Like he went... I didn't even behave that way, that badly. But he went... He went off. And I'm watching him in my rearview mirror and I couldn't help but laugh. I just laughed. Oh, where's the compassion? No, but... Poor guy's suffering. No, my windows are up, so he doesn't know I'm laughing, it's okay. Oh. But all that energy that he was expelling and going off did nothing.

Yep. Didn't alter. Anything. He's still just there. Like everybody else, he's still just there, you know. Yeah. What I saw was, ah yeah, I used to do that. Not quite as bad, but I used to do that. I know what that's about. I totally know what that's about. And the reality is, every single car that's on the road, no one's driving them. There's no individuals that are in control of any of the cars. And their movement. And when you see that, you just flow with it, whatever it's doing. Self-organizing universe. Totally. So it's just... But every now and then a little thing will come up, you know, something will cut real quick.

Yeah, fuck with my car. Fuck. Like I hear it and see it straight away and I just start laughing. It's great. Whereas before, fuck with... And it would manifest into anxiety and tension in the body and... Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And then look out, the next person I'm coming to see or visit because I'll be walking in the door with all this twisted shit that's going on. They don't get the real me. Well, can I say that? Yeah, so sweet and it's very freeing to be able to actually see the patterns how they play out and recognize them for what they are.

Just pure... pure patterns. Just the like... The way... life is amusing itself and entertaining itself. And then you see your own projections and you recognise your own patterns that are not there anymore. It's like, will it play? You got anything to say? No questions? I was just going to ask you about that technique that you were talking about. Technique might not be right, but where you look at that and then you look at this and then you look at this and then you look at that. Yeah. Yeah, just... Who came up with that? That's brilliant. Did you do that at the monastery? I picked it up somewhere.

Everything's second-hand. I picked everything up. Yeah, everything has been said a hundred times. The way I learned about it, it was from Tej Gyan in India. That was just one of the exercises. But I read it in many other books later on. And I kind of experienced it. See, everything is second-hand. There's really nothing new that you could add to it. Like thousands of years ago, they were using pointers. And I wouldn't even know which pointers I'm using that somebody else told before me because they show up in my own words. So I don't really know. The exercises, some of the exercises that I learned there, I'm not disclosing because I was obliged not to disclose them.

But because this one is appearing in any other teachings, that's... And it's helpful. Sure is. Yeah. Douglas Harding had a lot of things like that, experiments and that. Yeah. Yeah. What is this one again? Just locating. Locating the one who is aware. Like if you are experiencing a sensation, you know where is that sensation. Let's say it's somewhere in the guts or in the throat. So where are you looking at that sensation from? So just see. Just see where... Because you are aware that there's something here. Where are you looking from? You may... When you sit with it, you may see that, oh yeah, it kind of feels like, I'm looking from here down or maybe it feels like I'm looking from here sideways.

You just see your own experience. How does it really sit? And then you look from above. Yes. And then once you locate the area because it's not going to be precise point or anything, but just a vague area, where are you looking from at that sensation? So now, how do you know you're looking from here? Where are you looking from at this one, at this location? Now, just keep stepping back. Keep look, where are you looking from? Until... Because the location is only assumed by the mind. So this every next step is going to be kind of more vague until the point that you wouldn't be able to locate anything.

You would say, oh yeah, she's just space like awareness. When you're looking at it now, you say, okay, all right, seemingly there. How bad can it get if I'm looking at it? It's not like that. Try and make it worse. See how bad, you know, if you've got a physical pain, hurt physically, you can put your pinpoint, if you put your, this is psychological stuff, go in and try and make it worse. Put all your energy into it, however, and you're straining and struggling to try and make it worse and explodes. Nothing there. And Bob often pointed out that really the worst thing that can happen if you make it worse is that you fall unconscious.

You just fall asleep. The equipment will just switch off. And this is if you go with the, with the pain, like we habitually distract ourselves from whatever it is, anxiety or trauma or pain or. Most people don't want to go into it. They'll move away from it. You know, I've had people who try to get, I've been looking at it for years now. They burst into tears, go away and do all sorts of things. So I gave it up after a while. Let them work it out for themselves. Yes. It's the hardest thing you can ever do, but once you've done it, the results have been.

You have this saying, face the fear of dying and the. Do the thing you fear and the death of fear is certain. Oh, do the thing you fear and the fear of death is certain. The death of fear. Death of fear. Oh, right. Whatever. Death of fear. Yeah. Well, I'll take off the label from the word fear and see really how, how does it feel? It can be quite yummy if you, if you, if you, if you, if you, if you, if you, if you, if you, if you, if you, if you, if you, if you, if you, if you, if you, if you, if you, if you, if you, if you, if you, if you, if you, if you, if you, if you, if you, if you, if you, if you, if you, if you, if you, if you, if you, if you, if you, the witness perspective.

But where is that witness? Is it here or there? Okay, let's say somewhere, vaguely around here. But who knows about that witness? And who knows about the one that knows about it? And eventually there is no witness. There is just a space knowing, the sky-like awareness being known. Bob Dylan, won't you get around to writing a song? How does it feel? What? What was that? Say it again. Bob Dylan, won't you get around to writing a song? How does it feel? Yeah. A song, how does it feel? Is it? Yeah. The other thing too that becomes really apparent is I used to walk around with this sense of an identity, this kind of meanness.

But what I was also... And not so much at the time, but now, that identity used to change. A bit like a chameleon, almost. So, you know, if I get pulled out by a cop, for example, because I'm speeding, yeah? I'm not going to get out the car. Back then, back, I'm talking about. I'm not going to get out the car and, you know, be how I am. When I'm with Bob. Or be how I am when I'm with you. There'd be a certain kind of persona that I would just automatically take on, unconsciously, but automatically take on. So I had all these different kind of...

Masks. Masks. Thank you, thank you. That's what I'm looking for. Masks that I used to wear, pinning on whatever situation it was that I found myself in. And, man, I was so... lost in terms of who am I really. Like, who am I really? Because, you know, when I'm with such and such a person, I'm a certain way. And when I'm with such and such a person, I'm a certain way. Why am I, like... Which one's right? But even closer, why is that going on? Like, why is it? And now, I find it doesn't matter. Who I'm with. Even if I get pulled over by a cop.

I get out the car, and I'm still just who I am now. And it's really quite playful. And light. And so light. And really quite playful. But now there's no... It's really, really... I'm going to say this, and you can slap me across the knuckles. It's really, really nice being me. Can I say that? Let me add just a word, and we are over time, so we're going to be finishing. I think the transformation is actually, you can think to the absence of a need for approval right now. Because you don't depend on anybody else's approval. You know your own value as absolute, infinite, total, amazing beauty.

You don't really need to have anyone to affirm or confirm to you that you exist and you are valuable. You don't need the significance taken away from interactions or connections. It doesn't even come up. It doesn't even come up. Literally. Absolutely. It doesn't even come up. So you don't really have to modify your behavior to please people. And it may actually even seem that you're getting more kind of rough because you don't care. So you can get rid of all the mask, but just recognize the persona. It's the personal. Persona comes from the personal. We've got a personal image about ourselves. Haven't got that mask, what are you going to relate to?

That's right. And if behavior is modified, because I would imagine that to a certain extent, you're going to be more gentle speaking to the lady and more gentle to speak to another Aussie bloke while having a beer or watching a football. But this modification doesn't come from the need for approval or whatever. It just comes from the natural gentleness or natural, you know, like this is a functioning going on. And now having no esteem or no need for esteem or assurance of the esteem, that natural functioning is amusing. You actually look, what is Terry going to do? Or how is Katarina going to react to this or that or the other?

I have no preferences and I have no idea. And that's cool because I don't really have to worry about it anymore. I can just with curiosity discover how the past programming of this body mind is going to result in acting like today. I yelled at Bob and I was yelling for like long while when he just scoot over in front of the big traffic running, and he was really fast and I was trying to pull him back. I had no idea that my body will react in a scream. Stop it. That's how it happened. We were laughing about it 30 seconds after because the car like and it stopped.

So we're still here this time. But we are over time and I promised Bob that I won't be doing it too often. So come back again. I'll continue. Thank you. Thanks guys.