This transcript was made by speech-recognition software, so names and some words may be misheard. The recording is the original: watch on YouTube.
So everyone kind of knows. Robin, Shree, Terry, Karl, Kieran, Justin, Moira, Zaya, Salila, Richard, Bob, Kat. Where you go? Where you go? Hmm. Okay. He will be talking also. It's just that he's saving the energy. He hit 90 and he had a rough winter and he's conserving the energy but he will contribute. Only to make excuses. I'm having your back. You should be grateful. That's right, you should make excuses because cats all the time putting it back to cats. Well, yeah, let's... No way, you keep it now. We can jump up and we'll talk. We get a call there, it's just a blind call. Come on.
It doesn't want to stop. It's a nuisance call. Probably someone doesn't like us. Anyway, we're talking about nonduality. And nonduality in the simplest words means that there is only one, not two. So one means that everything is kind of made of the same substance, which is not exactly a substance, because the most beautiful way that Bob used to describe it is like there is a life, or there is an intelligence, or there is this omnipotence, The power that forms every shape and pattern, it vibrates into different forms. The subtle vibration will be like clouds or like thoughts. The more solid vibrations will be like a sound or light wave.
And yet more vibrations will form so-called matter. So this is really all the appearance or the world, the universe, The So, starting from this, there is nothing other than that one substance appearing in the diversity of forms. So every form is some sort of a vibration of the same one life. So this form, the room, every one of you, there is no one and no thing that would be anything other than that. Translation The question is how to realize it or uncover it because it has been covered by layers of conditioning. The way we were conditioned and we were taught since early childhood is that I am individual, I am a person, I am a good person or bad person.
And I was taught to relate to the personal story and to take everything, interpret the world in the relation to me and my story. So now the basic reality, the basic understanding of my true nature is completely lost. Like with the language, when I started dividing and differentiating things, the idea of separation came about. The Of course, I will have my own interest. I will be concerned with my safety. I will be concerned with my well-being and my wealth and my happiness and my, and my, and my, and my, and I, and me. And I will develop the self which will run my life all about me What people think about me What am I going to do tomorrow what I going to do when I retire Everything revolves around me and that creates suffering That self-obsession blinds me to see the life as it is, to experience it in its full beauty.
Because now I'm living in my head where I'm telling myself story about me. When I'm telling myself story about poor me, what happened to me in the past, or what didn't happen and should have happened, how life is unfair because I didn't have that much money as my sister or friend or whatever. And then what is gonna happen also, the fears that come with the idea that I am separate and I have to control myself and my life, I have to worry about what is going to happen next, because it is all in my hands and I am responsible for what is going to happen.
None of the other creatures as far as we know experience those sorts of mental overlay on top of the experiencing. The experiencing of life is happening right in this moment and is happening through the five senses, seeing, hearing, tasting, touching, smelling. And if we are acutely aware of those senses and the sensations that are showing up in the space of seeing their forms, their objects, their sounds in the space of hearing, their smells, their tastes, and there is thinking also. In Buddhism, thinking is actually one of the senses. And it is good to look at it this way because then we can see that the same way as thoughts are appearing in the mind, It's like the clouds appearing on the sky or like sounds appearing in the field of hearing.
So it's not really up to me what type of thoughts I'm going to experience. I have no clue what thought is going to show up in my mind tomorrow or in five minutes. I don't know. Same as I don't know what tram or truck or motorbike or bird is going to sing outside. So this type of living is the living with childlike curiosity. I am here, I am now, and I am open. And I am open to hear whatever shows up, to see whatever shows up, to experience all the sensory world. And this is the invitation to actually cut off the mental commentary that goes on and covers up the reality.
Because what happens the moment I start to interpret everything and translate it as something that is happening to me or for me The And the consciousness that is aware of that life happening can just savor every moment to its fullness, can enjoy the diversity of appearance because this appearance is going to be here only now. It's not going to be there in an hour or tomorrow. The sounds that are showing off and going, disappearing. The sights, they're disappearing. Everything is constantly changing. Everything is showing up and started already fading. So the moment to acknowledge and love the life as it is, in its fullness, is only now.
But instead of giving attention to what is, we, because of the conditioning, give attention to what isn't. Going to the head and, oh yeah, but what am I going to do next? That is what isn't. Or what am I going to do in couple of years? That's again didn't happen, that isn't. Or what is that person thinking about me? That's not the reality, that's the overlaying commentary that goes on. And this commentary takes the attention away from the awake, wakefulness or just simple presence in which the miracle is happening moment to moment. So, the easiest way to actually realize the life in its fullness is to snap out of the mental commentary.
And 90%, if not more, of mental commentary is the commentary about me, is interpreting everything in relation to me. So, what is that me? The easiest way is just to investigate the me, Because, well, the ancient scripts and texts are telling us that the me doesn't even have any real existence. Like, surgeons were cutting the body, they never found any me. Neuroscientists, they were looking for the me in the mind, and they actually found one in the section of the brain responsible for hallucinating So basically the me the sense of being individual or separate entity is a hallucination It is set in the same brain which fires up when you take whatever, magic mushrooms.
Anyway, investigating whether there is a me to which I relate and translate all the reality, all the world, can be done in few simple ways. The most elegant way that Bob is usually guiding. You want to guide it? What? How is the investigation going on? How you look at the me? Can you see? I'll have a look and see if the re is really there. What is the... Is the seeing happening? Yeah, all the seeing is happening right now, isn't it? See, hearing, tasting, touching, smelling. And then the thought comes up, I see. But can a thought see? Can a thought hear? Can a thought be aware?
Can a thought choose? A thought can't do anything at all. And what thoughts did you have when you were in the womb? Or in the first two years of your life before you learnt any words? You didn't have any thoughts, you didn't know anything about I or me. But you were living quite well then without the word. And look at the word now and realise that every word you've ever spoken or ever liked to speak has been learnt, has been acquired. And you're probably learning new words to this day if you go into the dictionary. But have a look at the word again and see that the word's not the thing.
It's just a label we put on things. Take the word water. See if you can drink the word. See if you can swim in the word or drown in the word. The word fire, does it burn your mouth? Can you cook with it? Can you eat with it? So this word, I or me, is not of itself as nothing. When you put concepts on it and go back to what other words we've learnt, I'm Bob, the Australian, the good fella, or the unhappy fella, or the sad fella, we put all this conceptual image on ourselves. And reinforce that by our parents, schools, society and everybody around us.
We take it to be the real, the word to be the real. And that word is what we call the self-centre, the reference point or the ego. It's all the ego is, a conceptual image. And it's a dead image in that because it's based on past events, conditions and experiencing. So it's not real. And we've taken it to be real and keep reinforcing it with the energy of belief. When you look at that word belief, look it up in your dictionary, see the definition of belief is an unquestioned acceptance of something in the absence of reason, acceptance of an alleged fact without positive knowledge of proof.
So we take it to be real, something that's not real at all. So it's not a matter of obtaining anything. We come here, most of us come here, to try and get something, to become liberated, become realized, become whatever. It's not a matter of doing anything. You are already that. What the ancient scriptures tell you, I am that, this is that, everything's that. It's a matter of discarding all this rubbish we've taken on board, seeing the unreality of it and letting it go, and see what happens from that point. Thank you. Yes, so investigation is simple. Like everyone is seeing. The seeing is happening. But is there anybody doing it?
Is there a me that is switching on that capacity of seeing? Can I have the eyes open and say now I'm not going to be seeing? It's impossible. It's totally not in my hands whether I can switch on and off seeing. The eyes can be closed, but for that I require a thought. Without the thought to close my eyes, can I even close them? I can't. It's totally... The me, the idea of a separate entity, the little dwarf that is sitting inside there somewhere and is pulling the strings and is doing the seeing and is growing the hair, is absolute fiction. There is nobody inside there that is doing any of it.
There is nobody inside there that is choosing the thoughts. We are thinking that we can choose the thoughts and we are going to have now positive thoughts instead of negative thoughts. Or we are going to be more loving towards ourselves or whatever. Very noble ideas, but where do they come from? Do I really think them? Because again, the neuroscience, they never discovered any mechanism in the brain that is able to produce thoughts. They are just random flashing of electrons These are the conditions that follow the conditioning the highways of conditioning happening in my brain completely spontaneous completely mechanical one could say So in that of course mechanical is a big approximation because every single being in the way it expresses itself is infinite spontaneity and is absolutely miraculous The fact that we don't know what we're going to be thinking next is absolute miracle.
It leaves everything to life and nothing to the me that can choose what I'm gonna see or think or hear. So the me is not in charge of any of the senses. The senses are working with the mind. This is like a bio-computer. The eye is a camera. Here is the hearing system, the speakers or whatever. That's the speaker, whatever. Anyway, it works on its own. It is designed in a way that it doesn't need a controller. It doesn't need anyone sitting there and driving it. Every single cell, the whole body is made of like three, I don't know, trillions of cells, out of which only one tenth belongs to the body.
It's a society, it's a colony. And every single cell is programmed and is I am the one who is intelligent and knows what to do. White blood cells know how to strengthen the immune system. The bone cells, stem cells know where they are needed also. And cancer cells, they are kind of a miracle also in a way. But they are equipped in that intelligence just as everything else in the whole appearance. Like the same as the body is equipped in intelligence, the planet is equipped in intelligence. Translation I am not saying this myself because if there is God, it is omnipresent, omnipotent, omniscient, which means there is all there is.
Every single power, the power in which the brain is shutting, flushing the neuron is God because omnipotence is total power. It means every single power, the power which makes the killer murder someone is still God, it is a total power. Total means total. So the much safer way and the way that I really like when Bob uses it is the word life. So life does everything or intelligence does everything. He calls it intelligence energy because energy is a movement and intelligence is activity. Activity is the knowing and the energy is the movement. So it seems like there is everything moving into that different forms and shapes and patterns And the whole world is finding, that was Nisargadatta saying, the whole universe is finding ever new and fresh ways to express itself.
It's like a dance. It finds fresh and new ways to express itself. Through another bodies, through another thoughts, through science, through the ways, through the focus of attention. When the attention is focused through the microscope into a cell, into a quantum level, The very attention creates more of diversity and more of complexity in everything. And the same way the telescopes that bring up the completely different scale is again attention bringing out the complexity. This is the life, this is the life force that creates and expresses us the whole manifestation. So the idea that there is a self inside that needs to attain something, The idea of the veil across the pure consciousness, that's the idea that is blinding us from the natural state which is inherently ours since birth or before the birth.
Because the consciousness, the awareness, is prior to every form in which it appears. There has to be space for anything to appear. So I am the space and the body has appeared in me and the body is growing in me. And I am as life using the bodies to manifest, to project, to create and to receive and to interact with seeming other. Because it's only seeming other. As we said at the start, this is just the same consciousness or the same awareness appearing in diversity of forms. It is the same concept. The ultimate level is just a field of probability. There is no matter. Matter is energy.
Energy is matter, whatever Einstein said. It is the way of looking at the universe to actually bring it back to its singularity, bring back the diversity into a singularity. It is not to say that the diversity is not to be enjoyed and celebrated. Once the dream is recognized for what it is, the dream, it is loved even deeper and even more, because first of all, it's known to be transient. We know that this moment is never going to be the same again. So why conceptually escape to some other moments or some virtual realities created in imagination, Rather than celebrate this, the reality, seeming reality, because ultimately this is the appearance, they call it maya or illusion.
But the possibility is there to actually savor and celebrate and experience the dream as a dream and love it as a dream. It's not to wake up from it. The dream is still appearing. Like Bob is seeing all of you. It means he's dreaming all of you. But he knows it is appearance, it is maya. He doesn't take it to be solid reality, so that solid reality doesn't threaten him. So there is no fear. Paton says she's pressing through, it's just a dream character also, so Bob doesn't know anything. Yeah, absolutely. Fear can arise, but that's just the body-mind organism responding in the moment. Right.
Where did you get the word fear from? Kat just said it. And so she said, if I understood what you said, you said that Bob doesn't have fear. No, it's not threatened. It's not threatened. No, it's not threatened. Yeah, fear is a different story. It's a natural, yeah, it's okay. It's a sensation, you know, you put the label on it. Threatened is the story. Yes. And fear is just the response. Right. Yes. Fear is just a response. Right. If someone's coming towards you with a knife, you'd have an intelligent response with the fear to remove, yeah. I have no idea. I was jumping off the airplane on the beginning of the air and there was no fear at any moment.
I was surprised. I was expecting fear and it didn't show up. So I have no idea. But of course it... But it can show up. Absolutely. Absolutely. Because it's a natural response. That's what I'm saying. Translationate What is sensation arising in the mind? We are bound into it and we suffer. Not necessary. And this is not to say that the labels will not arise. Exactly, yeah. Because this is... It's not like an old no-name. Yeah, yeah. It's all about recognition. It is moment-to-moment recognition of a dream as a dream, of the label as a label, of the mental chatter as the mental chatter. What we usually habitually do, we take the mental chatter label as reality.
When I call it fear, I believe I'm in fear and I have to fix it or I have to do something about it. And of course it presumes that there is an I who is experiencing it, while there is a sensation on the body. So whatever is appearing, when it's recognized for what it is, it loses its sting. Like, okay, the sensation appears and naturally the mind, because this is the computer, it relates it to the past memories, It brings out the database, it knows the label for it and it brings it up. It wants to be helpful, it's a wonderful instrument, so it brings up that label.
But if there is a conscious awareness of the label being just a label, there will be a smile. Instead of the frown or contraction, there will be a smile, oh, label, yeah. And also the curiosity to whatever is happening. If there is a contraction somewhere in the solar plexus that I used to call fear, now I'll be curious about it. Oh wow that just such an energy moving And with that curiosity I don have resistance towards what is Because this is to start with this is just the way that the life I as life express itself and appear to myself. The body, the sensation, the vibration going on.
And if there is a label or the story showing up on top of it, that's again the content of the awareness. And I am the knowing space, I'm the consciousness in which the body, The sensation and the label and the story appear. So they are not my. This is not my body, this is not my sensation, not my label, not my story. So why would I be involved or why would I want to push it away? Which again doesn't mean that if there is a pain happening to the body, the body will not naturally respond in the way to preserve itself. It will. And again, the most beautiful way that I didn't see many other nonduality teachers using, which is a waste, is to look out at natural state and see that it is us in nature.
So the same way nature responds to whatever, every circumstance and every moment, that is how this body also responds. Like if the cat is hungry, it will meow. It doesn't say, oh, it's all perfect, I'm going to just starve. It doesn't happen this way. The instrument is so intelligent, every cell of the instrument intelligent. This is all embodiment of intelligence or expression of intelligence. The whole is like wave on the ocean is made of the ocean. The body is made of intelligence and the planets are made of intelligence and the microbes and bacterias, they're all made of the same intelligence. So everything that the body is doing to preserve itself is that very intelligence expresses as the pattern which the body already has ingrained, programmed through the evolution or whatever we want to call it.
So whatever happens naturally, as in nature, is the natural state. What is not natural, well, ultimately it is also natural. Because without the taking up the idea of person or ego, the mask as Bob calls it, putting mask of identity over and identifying with that mask and leaving from that viewpoint of being the mask or the actor, without that there is no awakening. So the only way to wake up to itself for life is to fall asleep to itself first. So the life forgets its own singularity and appears to itself as diversity and then embodied diversity identifies with diversity with one particular pattern to the exclusion of others.
Because without that how would the awakening be possible? The whole appearance is the duality. What we are seeing around is all showing up in pairs of opposites. Space object, silence sound, day-night. And now we can't even conceive because the mind is structured to move between that pairs of opposites. So we can't even conceive of something that doesn't have the opposite. Like there wouldn't be a sound if there wasn't a silence. If there was a constant level of sound, it would be filtered out. Just like our nose gets used to the smell and we can't smell it. Everything is dualistic. There wouldn't be a day if there was no night.
If there was same level of the light, just like in the room, it would be filtered out and completely unnoticed. So the duality is the prerequisite for experiencing. Without the duality, there is no experiencing. So that beautiful opportunity for that ride, that beautiful ride called life, the vacations from the eternity, of eternity as singularity, this is a dualistic experiencing. So it is experiencing itself as other and catching the glimpse of itself as other. And it can be fully embodied and recognized moment to moment if the I doesn't take a stage and steal the show. If on top of pure effortless living, pure experiencing in which everything spontaneously dances in the space of seeing, hearing, tasting, touching, smelling, if on top of it there There is an entity, fictitious entity that I believe myself to be, the mask, then the whole attention, because it's going to be survival instinct involved, it's going to be all that self-obsession that comes up through idea of being separate and vulnerable and unworthy and limited in any way.
So this is going to still show to the point that probably about 80 of attention will come and sustain that fictitious entity or the mask And now because that mask is very tight and it very uncomfortable boy, it's so uncomfortable to feel inferior, it's so uncomfortable to feel unlovable or unworthy. I've been feeling that for 40 years of my life. And shit, I don't know how come I didn't suicide. I didn't know any better. But there is a possibility to live without any self-esteem. Not good self-esteem, high self-esteem or low self-esteem. No self-esteem because there is no self. It's like Bob is quoting Bankey sometimes when he says that 99% of things that we think and do is for myself.
And there isn't one. There isn't. Life is spontaneously living and expressing itself. It doesn't need agency, it doesn't need the doer, it doesn't need the choice maker. It knows on its own, just like the cat knows where to go when it's hungry or how to hunt. It is all happening without the little ego pulling the strings inside. So that little ego pulling the strings inside, which is happening in the brain, in this part of the brain that is responsible for hallucinating, It can be investigated and can be de-masked, like de-mascation. The mask is dropped off and now self-concern is dropped off, self-obsession is dropped off.
The life basically leaves itself and it doesn't mean that it's not going to look after the body. It looks after the body all the time. Like whether I believe there is a little dwarf or Santa Claus sitting inside and pulling the strings Or I am clear from that belief that life does whatever it does. Like I have never done a thing in my life, the life has done all of it. Whether I believed in being an ego, few years ago I believed in being a separate individual or the ego, or I don't. The same way, I didn't take decisions, the thoughts appear and the decisions were taken.
I didn't make choices, right choices or wrong choices. According to environment and the conditioning, thoughts appeared. And whichever thought was more charged took action. So, not only I'm not guilty of anything, any mistakes, doesn't mean that I'm not trying to fix it because that's also a conditioning. That pattern of trying not to hurt people and fix the mistakes is already part of the personality, Which is not mine, this is how life shaped that particular pattern, as much as it shaped every pattern, as much as it gives every animal different capacities. The birds that can fly and the cats that have fur that helps them to blend with the leaves.
So everyone has the, every single pattern, cells have the capacity to reproduce. The example that Bob often gives, the cells that have the capacity to start new life, when the cell of the female organs ovum and the sperm get together and they already know to divide, they already know where to go, where to attach themselves, that intelligence is running the universe. Where is the space for the me that has anything to say about it, Has anything to say about seeing or digesting or dividing or replacing cells? And in the same way, the same me is redundant in every other moment of the life. It is redundant in taking decisions because decisions happen.
The me only takes credit for it. The me comes and says, I have decided. But this I, nobody has ever found it. We only found the phantom in the hallucinating part of the brain. Apart from that, nobody has ever found it. So it's crucial to actually figure out, first the understanding comes on the level of the mind, oh, okay, on the level of the mind, yes, there is no me, but it still feels like there is something there, there is still concern, there is still fear, there is still involvement in the story. And it often, because some of us for 20, 30, 40, 50 years reinforced that very pattern of functioning, it may not fall overnight, it may not disappear in an instant, even though it is recognized as nonsense, because it can't be found, it's not there.
And everything else is happening without the me, so... But it takes, usually, it takes repeated investigation to see again and again that there isn't anyone there. The sensation or the feeling that yeah but it feels like it is about me I still feel inferior So it presumes that there is an I that feels inferior So I am that I that feels inferior Well in reality we are dealing with the content of consciousness So I am the consciousness and the feeling is in the consciousness, vibration. I label it as the inferior. So what is happening really, there is no I feeling inferior or feeling that I'm still here.
It's just a sensation and a label that are present in the field of consciousness. So from that perspective, I am the field of consciousness. I am the knowing awareness. And whatever is the content is just a passing content, is just a passing cloud. I'm the sky and the clouds are coming, inferiority or superiority or worry or this thought or the other. They're just passing content. The moment I recognize content as a content, I'm the one who is knowing about it. I'm the consciousness in which the content appears. I'm not the content anymore. The identification with the content drops off. So if there is an idea that, okay, I'm still unenlightened and I still have to practice more or seek more or try and become someone enlightened.
This is precisely another example of a content. This is the story which is being believed by life, not by I, not by me, there is no me. It's only life embodying that little model in which there is an individual. This is a play, this is what life wants to play, is hiding and seeking, and it can't find the one who believes themselves to be an individual or the actor or that little dwarf inside, Or perhaps even the body. People even think they are the body. How absurd is that? Like the body is changing, constantly changing. The body has been different yesterday. The body has been different as a baby.
And there is someone who is watching the body ageing. So how could I be the body if I'm aware of it ageing? So obviously my car is also ageing. So am I the car? Still, some people believe I am the body because when you tap me I can feel it and when you tap him I can't feel it. So it means I am my feelings, I am the body. Well, yes, I can also feel when someone hit my car. Does it mean I am the car? Or I can even see when I put out my computer and put a couple of cameras somewhere back in Poland, I can see my parents.
It means I'm there? No, it's just the way the structure of the reality, the equipment works. So, I don't think any of you still believe that you are the body that is constantly changing. Usually, the identification comes with the false self or the mask, the mask of personality, the idea of me. And even more subtle because it's reasonably easy to see that I'm not my past, I'm not my story, I'm not the school that I was going to, I'm not my first love or first whatever, first job or experiences that happened. Or I'm not my opinions or judgments because they are also changing and because I'm also aware of them.
But the identification is usually a little bit stronger around the emotional part of the structure. So I am my feelings because it feels so intimate, it feels so close. My anxiety, it feels so close. So that one, to see as a content, may be a little bit tricky, yes. It may be a little, especially painful feelings, especially the suffering. Or this very close sense of inferiority or unworthiness, like I'm not good enough, I should try harder, be better, work on myself, grow. This is the hardest, at least it was the hardest for me to actually see as a content. Because the identification, the belief is so persistent.
But there is no difference. If I am aware of my emotions, I can't be the emotions. If I'm aware of the sensations, even the contraction or inferiority, I can't be that. Plus, it's not there 24-7. There's no inferiority when I go to sleep and the light goes off. There's no inferiority when I'm dreaming that I'm flying. Obviously, I have different body and I have different experience and it's an ecstatic, blissful experience. There is no inferiority or it's not even a sense of separate self often sustained there. Sometimes it is, sometimes it isn't. But there isn't anything constant. So the way Bob is pointing at that primordial sense of self, because this is something that nobody can really deny.
The sense of existence, the sense of, okay, maybe I'm not the mask of personality, maybe I'm not the body, maybe I'm
I am not even my feelings, maybe I am not even my inferiority or whatever, but I am. Like come on, I am. Yes, and that's it. That's the only thing we really know. I am. What is behind I am is a lie. When I say I am the consciousness, the consciousness is already an object which I can create mental image of. I'm not the mental image. When I say I am space, again, the space is made to an object. I can only say I am, and I can't say I am not.
Of course I can say it, but I have to first exist to say whether I am or I am not. So that sense of presence very often is taken to be, okay, I am, but I am here and I am not there. Well, how do I know that? The limitation of the equipment. The assumption that the equipment is what I am. So how do I know where is the hearing happening? Is it then out there on the street or is it there in my head? I can't even say. So based on that, I assume that I'm here and I'm not there. That's an assumption. If I close my eyes, the space disappears.
I can't say where I begin or where I end. So it's totally reliable on the senses. And the senses are completely conditioned by the mind which interprets the information. So the one thing that I can know is that I am. I can't know what I am, because to know what I am, I would have to stop being myself and then I can't know even more. So I am. Now, assumption is that I am within the limit of the skin. But when I close my eyes, I can't even see the skin. With the eyes open, I can't even see my face. So I don't really, I can't tell where I begin or where I end.
When someone comes too close, I can already say that they invade my space. So obviously now I'm assuming my space being a little bit wider than the body. So this is all assumption. Assumption that I am the body, I'm inside the body, or I'm a little bit outside because of some aura or chakra or whatever. They're assumptions. And they are all based on conditioning, on words of what somebody else told me. Everything, every word has been learned. Every word comes from just repeating somebody else, taking up from someone else, learning. What do I know without anything that has been conditioned to me, has been told to me?
The only thing that I can be certain about is the presence, the awareness of presence, sense of being. And this is what they call the primordial self, enlightenment, or this is what I am, the awareness of being, the knowing that I am. So instead of being separate self, a dwarf, someone inside the body, I am the knowing of existence. And that knowing of existence is obviously at least extended on the physical level to the limit of my gaze. Like I can know everything I see. This is the knowing of existence. In the thinking, completely unlimited. The whole universe appears in me. The moment I think of galaxies, they are inside the space of my thinking.
I am the knowing of it. So I am, like Nisargadatta says, I swallow the whole world. Because the world appears in me, I am the knowing of the world. Now, when I say I am the body, I'm obviously limited myself and separated myself from the world. But if I don't take the concept behind the awareness of being, I'm not the body anymore, I'm just being. I am. And this is what they call satchitananda. You want to explain satchitananda? You are the best at it. I'll put it on you. Yeah, the way they explain it, the being, awareness of being. Well, there are three of the five factors of Hinduism, Sat, Chitta, Nanda, Nama, Rupa.
Sat is existence, Chitta is consciousness, and Nanda is the love of being or the stillness. And the Nama river of the name and form. And the name and form are Maya, illusion. But is anybody who is not existing right now? Oh, you realise, I'm existing, so you must be there. Anyone who is not conscious right now? No, you're conscious. Anyone who is not happy to be? So there it is, you are that Sat Chitinanda. And he's talking about the thoughts arise in themselves, thinking, seeing, hearing, tasting, touching. So a thought comes up and you go I thinking this thought You related to the conceptual image you say I am thinking And I am thinking this thought.
So, you've formed a subject, a thinker, that's thinking the thought object. You've divided the actual thinking into subject-object duality. The same with the hearing. I hear. Hearing's happening and I hear. I hear this and then this becomes the object, subject-object. But ask yourself this, can there be a thinker without thinking? You realise there can't be a thinker that's not thinking. Can there be the thought without thinking? So the subject-object division are only thoughts. But thinking is the natural spontaneous functioning, the hearing, tasting, touching, smelling. They're all the spontaneous functioning. And how does that work out? Well, have a look. Can the thought I think actually think?
Can the thought I see actually see? Can the thought I hear actually hear? Shut your eyes and look. See if the thought I see can see. Look around the room and see what you see with a thought. Close your ears off and see what you hear with a thought. You realize you can't do any of that. How does it work? Well, something comes up and I like it. How do you know? Well, I've had this experience before. It's a good experience and I like it. And we don't want the good things to go. So we cling to it, keep it, and not realise it's transient.
No matter how much you love them, how much you want to keep them there, or how much you long for it, that's going to change. They're going to die, move on, or constantly change. But we don't want it to go. So what do we do? We resist it. Trying to keep it there. There is a resistance coming from the disbelieved in conceptual mood, ego. And don't you realise that any resistance you are in, you are in conflict. Resistance is conflict. And conflict is uneasiness, it's depression, it's unhappiness, it's guilt, it's shame, realise. And that's another way of putting that is uneasiness is disease. So there's resistance, conflict and disease going on in us all the time.
That's why we're always in this habitual conceptual thinking, where all these fears, anxieties, stresses and guilt come upon us. Something we come up with that I don't like, what do I do then? Something we don't like, we try to get rid of it, So we resist to push it out. Again resistance, again conflict, and again disease. That's what's constantly going on within us. So the recognition that what you're relating it to, the conceptual image, can't see, can't hear, the ego, can't see, can't hear, doesn't know, can't do anything at all. It's never been able to do anything. It's a fiction. Where are you left? You're left in the spontaneity of this moment.
And you are that. And the thatness that you are is the existence, consciousness, bliss, or being, knowing and loving to be. And isn't that happening with each and every one of you right now before you've got any concepts on it? So you start to realize that what the Buddhists tell us, they tell us it's non-conceptual, Ever fresh presence-awareness. And add onto it just this, nothing else. Not any concepts or any thoughts, righties, or not at all. Just leave everything as it is. As it is means unaltered, unmodified, uncorrected. Just as it is. So that's a natural, spontaneous happening. That's what's going on out there in the universe.
What is altering, modifying or correcting the universe? Anything stopping the sun from shining? Anything stopping the earth from rolling around the sun? It's all spontaneously and naturally happening. The same with what's going on in that body. You've got to think about taking your next breath, you've got to think about beating your heart, expanding and contracting it, speak about digesting your food. You don't have to do it, all these things are happening spontaneously and naturally by themselves. Even the thinking is going on. We're related to this persona, the personal image, the personal belief in entity. We take that person to be real. But the ancient told us the person comes from that ancient language persona meaning the mask We got this mask of identity we put on ourselves a group of concepts We added onto ourselves I Bob I Australian I a good fella I this that and the other Or whatever I think about myself, I'm not good enough, or I'm fearful.
They're all concepts. They're not believed in anymore because they've seen their faults. And if they're not believed in, who can take delivery of them? No one taking delivery of them, how long are they going to last? Where were yesterday's thoughts now? Haven't they moved on? Last week's thoughts and last year's. And they won't come back unless you recall them. They're gone for good. But we recall them from memory and give them a fresh and new life. Without that recollection, recalling them, life is spontaneously, constantly and ever changing. And that's what Christ told you. I am the way, I am the truth, I am the life.
Not talking about himself, but talking about that sense of presence. Go investigate that sense of presence and realise that I am this without any concept of it. It's the truth and it's also the life. And you are that. And that's what Sat Chinna Nand emerges into. I Am That, that is all there is. Yes, so it basically means life without any resistance, life as if there was nobody home, because there isn't anyone home. There's only a belief that there is someone. So we all have the glimpses of living this way, of that effortless living. We are not preoccupied with ourselves 24x7. There are moments when we are completely one with what we do, when we are in the midst of creative work or something, or we are with the beauty or nature.
And there is no preoccupation or interpretation going on. And this is precisely the state of being, which is the natural state. There is nobody at home. I just don't sustain there is someone by believing there is. If there is no thinking, if I don't think that there is someone sitting in there or in here, there isn't. So we know that state, they call it natural state, and this is why it cannot be attained, because the one who wants to attain it, the person, the mask, it has to go off, it has to be taken away and thrown away. It has to dissolve, disappear, because it's only made of a phantom, it's made of thoughts that are being believed.
The moment the thoughts are seen through, they just dissipate. The belief goes out of them and dissipates. So the person can never achieve enlightenment because the person is a dream, is a mirage. So when the mirage is fading, the natural state is ever-present, is always there. So we all know that natural state. The problem with seeking and the seekers is that we are expecting, We were told or we are eluded or life eluded itself with the promises of eternal bliss, endless pleasure or ecstasy or something like that. If there was eternal bliss or ecstasy that has never had any beginning or any end, it would be filtered out from the consciousness.
It could not be experienced. And if there is a bliss that comes and goes, it's not worthy of pursuing because it's just another pleasure. So the natural state is the state which underlies good, bad, pleasant, painful, blissful, non-blissful. This is the state that is beyond the level of being individual wave, just being the ocean. It's leaving us if there was nobody home, nobody in control. And this is the true living, it is living from the true nature. It's living like the cat, it doesn't really take credit for anything, or it doesn't feel guilty, or it doesn't take decisions, they happen. So that way of living is inherently ours, it can be claimed at any moment, Just by seeing through the additional layer, as Bob explained beautifully, the additional layer of constant resistance to what is.
The way the life is moment to moment is no good. How do I know? Because I have the opinion or judgment about it and I think it should be different. But that I is a mirage. The moment it is seen for what it is, it falls away with its opinions, judgments and resistances. And in absence of resistance, there is no suffering. Even though pain happens, aging happens, toothaches happen, disasters, accidents, everything happens to life just as it happens to cats and trees. If there is no resistance if there is no idea oh it shouldn have happened to me it should have happened to someone else If there is no thinking like this no selfishness then every situation is just a situation which is a temporary manifestation and it can be lived through fully.
It can even be appreciated to a certain extent. Even grieving or sadness, if the label is taken off, it's just the sensation, overwhelming vibration in the body. But if there is no idea that it shouldn't be here, it can even be delicious, it can even be sweet. Everything can be viewed the same way as Nisargadatta was guiding, as love. The The And sustaining that mirage, that very energy is free to appreciate and love life, perhaps to help someone, to see someone, to be for someone in a way that is selfless, that is not for me, it's not about me. And, yeah, so it's just up to you to keep looking.
And when I'm saying up to you, I'm not talking about the mask. The mask can't see anything. This is the consciousness that is running the body. That very consciousness has brought itself here. So on some level it is already attracted to finding itself in a pure form rather than dressed up as that mask of personality. So that very consciousness is inviting itself now to have a look and to see how it is when And the life is not interpreted when there is no resistance, when everything is holy and is transient. So we have another 25 minutes, so please join in, tell us how do you feel about it, or if you have any doubts or any questions, or if it all doesn't make sense, please argue.
This is all language, so it is actually quite impossible to describe and explain it appropriately because language by nature is dualistic and we are talking about singularity. But the frequency is there because the conviction or the… well, in absence of thinking there There is no even a need of conviction because the knowing that we are is something that is totally undeniable. The awareness of being is undeniable. The satchitananda means awareness of being is bliss or being, knowing, loving to be. The third part, the bliss or the loving to be, it shows up when the destruction is absent Because that very energy that brings about the love for the being, because, well, the love for the being is there, otherwise there wouldn't be any being.
So if the being already appeared in the consciousness, it means it has been allowed, it has been loved, it is appreciated. But the experience of the sweetness of being, the sweetness of being comes to us when we drop off the conceptualizing and the covering up and interpreting everything in the head. Because what happens with excessive thinking? The thinking is so entertaining. The thinking is so interesting. The stories are so hypnotizing. They're so interesting. The awareness of being is just boring. It feels like, ah, it's nothing. Like drama, wow, so juicy. Imagination or fantasy, wow, so colorful, so intense, so engaging. And the awareness of being is basically, it can't even be sensed.
We can't even use the senses, the seeing, hearing, tasting, touching, smelling to sense the awareness of being because as Bob pointed it out, it is pre-sense. Presence is pre-sense. It is prior to any sense. It is a basic screen or background on which the sensory experiences happen. So it feels like nothing for the mind. For the mind, the being or awareness of being is boring, is nothing. The mind can never ever touch it, it can never grasp it because the mind is movement. It is constant movement while this is the stillness in which the movement of the mind appears. So to understand this, that the mind can never grasp it, because mind is one of the millions of minute expressions of it, to understand that mind can never grasp it, is to relax the mind and stop trying.
When the mind stops trying to grasp it or grab it or chew on it or contemplate on it, it naturally falls back. And in that silence, like some teaching says, the God comes to the quiet mind. In that silence, the insights flow, the obviousness of that awareness of presence comes forth because it's not obscured, the screen is not covered with the images. So now the screen is visible, the screen is being known. And that knowing of itself is blissful. So the bliss is on stake as well, but it isn't constant because the whole machinery is conditioned the way to throw thoughts. So the thoughts are still appearing, the sensory information are still appearing.
There are holy men that are in samadhi, closed eyes, deaf, they look like dead, they just sit there. Twenty years later they wake up and they don't even remember they were sitting out for twenty years. That's called some of the samadhis. I don't know, they have different names for it. But that's again the experience that is not really worthy of pursuing because it has beginning and an end. And even though he might have been in a blissful ecstasy for 20 years, he's got nothing to say about it, nothing to experience. It's just something that is an experience appearing on the basic screen of natural state.
So the natural state is prior and is superior to anything that appears on it. And again, the word superiority is the wrong word because everything is made of the same substance. So nothing is superior to anything else. Like the ant is not inferior to the galaxy. I mean, different scales, they are just one substance. We are preoccupied with goodness that only applies to people. We can abuse animals, but we can't abuse people. Why? We can abuse microbes, but we can't abuse people. Well, the goodness, the love of being is completely uncompromising and is equally loving and allowing everything. As much mosquito, as much microbe, as a galaxy, as a person.
And life lives on life. So the idea of goodness in the world The momentary appearance, moment to moment. And if the distraction doesn't go into sustaining the mirage of the self, the helping other, the helping the world, the serving is much more likely than in any other situation. So, come on, join in. I had an experience when I was younger before I met you, Bob, before I got introduced to this, that was in martial arts. I started at a really young age, like 12, and I got to a point where, I'll give an example. One of the gratings that I sat for, I had to stand in the middle of a room, and I had 10 black belts all in a circle around me, about 8 feet away from me, all facing me.
When my instructor clapped his hands, everybody had to go me. And I had to still be on my feet after 10 minutes. Everyone's just constantly at me. And when that happened and I experienced it before that and after that but when that actually occurred I had no recollection at all as to what this was doing what the body was doing Like none It happens too fast for me to jump in there and calculate what going to happen next I sorry the link to the interview is not available There was no recollection of any of that occurring. And also absolute amazement. How did that happen? It was too quick.
And people used to say to me, how do you do that? How do you actually do that? And at the time I was unaware of nonduality. I was like totally unaware of any form of spirituality, you know. And at the time, the only answer that I could give, and I used to feel a little bit embarrassed about saying it, because it kind of sounded a bit weird, was, it wasn't me that was doing it. I kind of felt like my body was taken over. That was the only kind of thing I could say. It was true, but that was as close to getting to being able to describe that as I could possibly get.
And just something that you were saying, you know, like within the content of everything that gets thought, And until we get to a certain point, everything that we think we're thinking is our history, all our experiences, how I feel about myself, you know, the story that I've got around myself, the story that I've got around my parents, the story that I've got around my upbringing, my culture, politics, you name it. I would take ownership of that. That story was mine. It was very precious to me. What was also contained in that story was, you're hopeless, you never amount to anything, what's fucking wrong with you, you idiot, you fuckwit, how could you do that?
Why did you say all that as well? I didn't kind of like that part of the story, but it was there and it was, I believed, part of me. What was also contained in that story was, yeah, this is my body. Of course this is my body. Absolutely. I Am Self-Inquiry I am the body. Intellectually, it made sense. And after all, I could witness the body, I could see it, and I became also aware of thoughts that would happen throughout the course of the day. And I went, well, okay, I've got to be separate from them to be aware of them and separate from the body to be aware of it.
But the last thing, the last thing, so it's kind of stuck there, you know, like, now what? And, you know, Bob says it from the very beginning and it kind of gets said all the way through, you know, you are already that. You are already that sense of presence, that awareness, that oneness, that one intelligence energy, you are already that, you know. And the last thing that I had to see was, yep, I can see I'm not the body, yep, I can see I'm not thoughts, etc. But the last thing that that sense of identity was hanging onto was that sense of presence And that why I got so stuck and why I see others get so stuck I am the presence It's doing that, it's claiming ownership of that sense of presence.
And there's the stuckness. I understand this, I understand that, I understand I'm not this, I'm not the body, I'm not, I'm not, I'm not. I see all that. Why the hell do I still feel like I'm here and I'm stuck? How did your audience react when you said it wasn't me that did it? Most people didn't understand what I was saying. You kind of have to be at that level to appreciate that. I've spoken to other people that have reached that level that totally understood what I was saying. But until you got to that level, people couldn't get it. Now, that sense of presence, I can't describe it.
I actually can't describe it. I can describe thoughts, I can describe the content of thoughts, I can describe the body, describe all that, but I couldn't describe that sense of presence. So that stuckness, I don't know, the last thing that had to go for me was seeing that, This so-called me-ness or that so-called self-identity was hanging on to and taking ownership of that sense of presence or that sense of awareness. Hung on to it. And because it hung on to it, that me felt like it's here. Like it's here. Because I'm here. And I can't say I'm not. I'm here. Therein lies the stuckness. Of course, you're going to be stuck.
When I actually saw that, that was the last thing to see for me. It was the absolute total last thing to see. That so-called sense of meanness, everything else kind of dropped away. I was stuck with this. I still feel trapped. I still feel like I'm here. And I didn't have no clue what to do about it. Because I kind of knew I wasn't this and I wasn't that. There was that trappedness and it just happened by itself, by the way. It didn't actually do anything. But all of my attention was left focused on just that. I still feel like I'm here. What is that?
What's going on there? Who still feels like it's here and what is that here-ness? What is that? What is that? So it's kind of having to discern the difference between the body and body sensations and that sense of presence. And there's a difference. There's absolutely a difference. There is. And you just come to see that. You literally, you just come to see it. And as soon as I saw my aha moment was when I saw that that last vestige of me was hanging onto that sense of presence and taking ownership of it. This is my presence. This is my here-ness. I'm here. Me is here.
Me feels stuck here. You know, so that last little bit was seeing that last little bit of the me that was just kind of trying to hang on. Just literally trying to hang on. And I saw it. I just saw what it was. Literally just saw that. There was nothing else to see after that. There was literally nothing else to see after that. Then I just found myself sitting really, really quietly and everything just stopped. All the internal noise stopped, like completely stopped. So internally there was a silence that was, dare I say, experienced. But the other thing that became really really apparent kind of in an instant was the noise sound that I wasn even hearing I was so kind of internalized and I call it the roaring silence.
I do. I am a person who is not aware of the reality of the world. I am a person who is not aware of the reality of the world. I don't know if anyone else is there, but for me that was really, really important. Really, really important to see that. And I had to get to a point of no longer looking in the content, no longer looking for answers in there. You know, I saw that for what it was. For me it was just all the focus just turned and just sat with this stuckness, this yet I still feel like I'm here. And what I discovered was, yeah, I am here.
Thank you so much for that point. Just really lovely taste. It was quite important point that you distinguished there and thank you for that. There is sensory kind of, you can sense certain things and there are certain things that you can't sense. There is something that you said you can know about it because it's changing, it's vibrating. That's not the type of presence. The presence which is pre-sense, which can't be sensed and which is never changing, that's the ultimate. So they also say in many Zen schools, they say, we are looking for that which never changes, that's the ultimate truth. The truth that is truth regardless of anything.
So the only thing that doesn't change is that space-like awareness or sky-like awareness or basic screen. Everything else is coming and going. And yes, it's a beautiful way of describing it, the way this mirage is holding onto anything and everything, even the basic sense of presence, especially to the basic sense of presence, is borrowing the existence from the ultimate intelligence of life. And it's feeding on it. And then, of course, another thing that happens, The moment it is seen through, an enormous amount of energy that has been trapped in sustaining that mask, in keeping that real, in believing in that little Santa Claus there, gets released.
Like, Terry was sitting in silence for weeks and weeks. I didn't sleep for weeks and weeks. I mean, I would sleep for a couple of hours per day. It's just that the energy before the body, it took few months. When I went to work and I was actually worried that I was responsible job driving ships, I was worried that I won't be able to do the job if I don't get proper sleep. That's the conditioning. But the sleep didn't happen because it didn't have to. Until it settled down and it created a new sort of a standard, because again in the duality everything is relative to its opposite.
But seeing how much of the energy is sustaining the false image, when it drops... I mean, we know, the people who have already are reporting constantly that the life got easier, the life got brighter, there is less of self-ink going on, there is less of self-obsession. The problems show up, but they don't hang on. We don't dwell into stuff from 20 years ago. Or if there is something in the immediacy, it hangs on for a couple of hours instead of for a couple of weeks. So it is already much more spacious, it's already much more freeing and much more fun to be around, to have that ride.
But the ultimate freedom comes when the preference for pleasure, even that, drops off. Like whatever life is presenting to itself is the beloved. And running away from pain and chasing pleasure, desires, chasing desires, what do I want to become or to gain, that drops off. The person, the individual cannot stop themselves from desires or repulsions Because it's like Bob is saying, Banke says, killing the ego or stopping the ego is like washing blood off the hands with blood. The presence is not being owned. There is no one who claims the identity, no one who identifies itself as the presence. And moments, again, I can't stress that one enough, moments of that natural state we are experiencing throughout the day and we miss out on it.
Basically because the mind is grasping everything and organizing, memorizing, putting down to the database. And these moments when the mind is inactive, they are not really memorized. But in hindsight we can see when there was no problem. Like the way, beautiful way Nisargadatta describes natural state. He says, I can't say how it is, I can only say it in negative. There is nothing wrong anymore. Nothing wrong anymore. Even if it's raining, even if it's cold, nothing wrong. So, every one of us knows that from experience, from day-to-day experience, the moments where is nothing wrong. I am relaxing on the sofa after a busy day at work.
Oh yes, nothing wrong. This is the natural state. Mind is not active. The problems are not being created. So acknowledging that fact that we already tasted will bring up the regime of experiencing it more. It's like the attention will go into that moment when the natural state is being experienced. And the attention will get conditioned to recognize it more and more. And ultimately, maybe it won't fall out of the recognition anymore. So instead of, because this is what I was doing for many, many years, trying to, because I was so committed, I had so much devotion towards finding out the truth and the reality, that I would do anything, I would torture myself in meditations and I would...
Gosh, that was the individual surrendering, like the moment I was forgetting myself and going off on the trip on the negative story or self-beating myself or guilt or shame or whatever. The moment I would awaken from that story, oh my God, this is all the story. The next moment, the mind would come back and say, you see, you're hopeless, you'll never get it. The The Mirage is the Mirage itself. So any sort of ambition, spiritual ambition, is actually having the reverse effect. If I want to try harder and strive more, I create the tension, while the insights and the natural state is a state of relaxation, a state of just trusting life.
The fruit will ripen when it's ready. There is no effort required. Or there is a point when the effort appears, when the effort is required, but in that point is an effortless effort. Like my life is effortless effort now, Bob's also and Terry and many others. When of course I'm working, I'm working 16 hours per day, I'm working a lot, I'm working more than I was working when I had a good life as a ship's officer. But this is effortless. Whatever needs done is being done. And there is no idea that it should be any different. I don't have time to sit down and read the book.
It doesn't happen. But there is no complaint about it. The life is effortless, even though it's a lot of action happening in life. Again, well, someone else. Speak, please. I was just going to ask how you were talking about how labels arise. We were talking about how labels arise. We label things. Yeah. So in meditation, if we're not thinking, we're not the ones who actually are thinking, yet the labels still arise. So if you're afraid or something like that. Then it's also how do you shift, how do you move away from it? It very common lately for me to get to any time the space opens up Like I see all of a sudden my eyes are closed and then there space in that space Then here is the end.
Yes, it's intense. Yeah, I don't expect that much reaction. That's wonderful. Just let it all out because... Yeah, I just... That's your vulnerability. That is the most helpful thing on this whole path. Just being completely open. Completely. It's very familiar because as a child I had a moment when I was a teenager and I recognize it to be the same thing because I was like running to my room to get a CD of the Crane Race. I loved that song. I loved that, yeah. It was when Zombie first came out, so I remember it was a CD single. And I ran into my bedroom and I opened the door and instantly I felt like time stopped and the curtains were alive and the walls were alive and they were looking at me But instead of recognizing, I guess, now what that would have been, it just scared the crap out of me.
Like I was so afraid. And I remember just standing there going, if I move, they'll know and I'll like... Yeah. Like to the point where I thought maybe there was something wrong with me. This is so beautiful. You witnessed and it happens. It's almost like a special power. witness the aliveness of everything. It's like comes with this big fear so and I know that we're not like if we apparently don't get over that fear it kind of just happens but then in saying that that's you still feel like it's you being afraid somehow like you go okay I'm not gonna be afraid this time. But that's beautiful.
Do you know what I mean? And you don't get that there because whenever you're Am manikya. I Am. I've meditated until last year. I just sit. It's okay. You just sit? Yeah. And do what? I just sit and I notice anything that's happening in my body. That's it. I don't focus on breathing or anything like that. I just sit there. That's fine. So you're aware that thoughts just come and go? Yeah. Whilst that's happening? Yeah. Are you also aware that you can't stop them? Yeah, I'm getting there. That they just come and go? I am not sure what I am saying. I wouldn't feel isolated, I wouldn't feel scared, I would just be in a state of bliss.
If I could choose that. If you're truly the thinker, you'd never have any negative experiences, would you? You just wouldn't do that. Yet there they are. Or you'd be psycho. Psychotic. There they are, they flow through. So, in the meditation, perhaps something that you could ponder whilst you're meditating, And the type of meditating you're doing, perfect. Don't attach any more to it. I didn't want to meditate, but I never wanted to. It's okay. But whilst you're sitting in meditation, try meditating on that that is meditating. Mm, yeah. I had a spontaneous thought arise. Hold on, hold on. Which is not the thoughts, because you're aware of the thoughts, aren't you?
Yeah. What aware of them I don know yet Meditate on the meditator Rather than sitting there and assuming you are and you witnessing the content of thought Rather than assume you are go looking for it So usually on the brink of almost being asleep because I'm that relaxed is when I'm not thinking. It doesn't matter whether there's thinking going on or not. The point is, who is the thinking happening to? Who is aware of the thinking? What is aware of the thinking? We never look there. We never looked there. Well, the first time I had a thought that I knew wasn't me was only like a couple of weeks ago because I was trying to meditate.
I was just like, I'll just meditate because I felt like it. I feel like I was almost asleep and I just woke up to someone saying, how can you be in something and of something at the same time? And I remember being like, whoa, who said that? That's really deep. And it wasn't me. I know it wasn't me. And I was like, oh. And I'm like, are you meant to try and answer that or just let that question just arise and be the question? Okay, remember before when I was saying about that martial art experience that I had? Yeah, yeah. It just happened too quick.
It was all just happening too quick. It was completely and absolutely spontaneous in every split second of every moment. Yeah, so is everyone's maze. Yeah. Functions exactly the same way. We just don't realize it. You didn't get it until you get it and I just don't get it yet. Yeah, and that just came out of your mouth then. You didn't plan for that to come out, it just came out. Yeah. So did that, yeah. Yeah. And that, yeah. And that. Yeah. There's no one sitting separate from that going, okay, now I'm going to say this. It just completely comes out spontaneously. So, where is there a you there that's going, I'm now going to say this, or I'm now going to think that, or I'm now going to believe this, or I'm now going to let go of that, or I'm now going to do this or do that.
That's what this is about. That's exactly what this is about. Self-inquiry. Go looking for the self. Often we get confused with the self, like we really get confused with it. If I ask you to describe yourself, what you'll do is you'll give me experiences of the self. I was born such and such, I went to such and such a school, such and such parents. You give me a whole history, you give me all the experiences of the self without telling me what the self is. What have the experiences happened to? What is that self? And we don't know. We don't even think to look there.
We just don't. You come along to this and someone will say this. Because all the suffering that goes on in a human being is what happens in thought only. If I could take you on my shoulder and create amnesia, so all your history was completely wiped out, what problem would you have? My feet are a bit sore. Yeah, and that would just be happening presently. Presently. Yeah. Whereas what we run on... But I'm like, my feet are sore because that's a word. Yeah, and there's the story. There's the story. That's the story. And we take the story to be real. The closest I ever got, when Bob was taking me through this, the closest I ever got I Am Memory The words, sentences, stories that we bring into the present moment and go, that's me.
Really? That sounds a bit bizarre. Yet, that's how we all operate because we never question it. We never look. And again, if I tap you on the shoulder and we could create amnesia You wouldn't disappear, would you? You'd still be there. You'd still be sitting there. There'd just be no story. And you'd be completely at peace. Apart from your sore feet. Yeah? Yeah. So it just having a look for yourself watching Who is this me What is this me What is it Like what is it You discover it nothing but thoughts that you have no control over And you're taking that to be who you are?
Really? You don't have control over it? Those thoughts that happen for you might as well be going on in somebody else. And if they were going on in somebody else, how long do you think you'd pay attention to them? Really, if you had the insight to know, if you could see now all the stuff that goes on in Robin's head throughout the course of the day, if you had the capacity to see it, how long do you think you'd pay attention to it? Might be interesting. It's not going to be interesting. But you're not going to pay attention to it for the rest of your life, are you?
No. For more information visit www.muslimcentral.com Yesterday's thoughts. Where are they now? Gone, aren't they? There's a whole new pattern of thoughts that are floating through. Just at least becoming aware that thoughts just happen in and of themselves. And you are not the doer of any of those thoughts. So I'm just trying to do that right now, just recognise that. Yeah. And just try not to even think about it. I am a great listener of the I Am the One who is the One. I am a man of the world, I am a man of the world. Why is it so obvious for me to craft an artificial entity?
Just one last thing I wanted to add because you said that you don't get it until you get it. You are getting it. You are getting it. You are it when you don't think about it. Because the only thing to get is the awareness of presence. And you are aware of presence. You can't say you're not aware of presence. It's only the distraction going on. Just ignore it. And the awareness of presence is who you are and it's always there and you always get it. There's nothing more to get. We think there's something more to get. There's nothing more. When you look who is looking, you find no one, nobody home.
But the awareness of being is still there. Then the thoughts are happening, they appearing like subtitles on the screen. But the awareness of being is there, underlying it. So you always get it, you're always getting it. It's just sometimes you focus on the surface of the ocean, which is stormy, instead of going to the depth, which is always peaceful. Okay, so come back again because as usually when the meeting ends then people start talking and Bob wants to go to bed and I'm getting up tomorrow. At least that with someone to blame on because he's... He's very gracious to host us here at this time.
It's extremely gracious. Yeah, he is actually, yeah. We thank you. He is the best. Thank you. Yeah, thank you. Thank you.