Sailor Bob-Kat - Nonduality Sunday 2 Sept 2018

I'm having a rest for a few weeks and letting... What are you studying? I say, in case you don't know, I'm having a rest for a few weeks and letting Kat take over to give the spiel and the talk and see how it goes. That's it? What? The cat or Kat? I thought he was going to say a couple of words more. Translated by Ramiro Zafran, I am a person who can adjust the language to meet the person where they are rather than just drop random ideas at everyone. So he reserved that good part for himself, still available, for ridiculously low donation if anybody wants to pay it.

I remember I used to go to a psychotherapist before I got my one-on-one with Bob. The psychotherapist was charging like 180 per hour. And of course you have to go there forever. Well, I was working at sea, I had money. But Bob takes one third of this money if someone is willing to pay, because often people don't have any and he's still not going to throw them out of the door. And there are people who actually need, depends on the ripeness. And this is, yeah, I'm telling it to you also, because when you find yourself at that point I am at the point where nothing else matters.

Doesn't matter my relationships with my family, doesn't matter my job, my career. Now I really have the priority. I want to see through this illusion of me. I don't want to take things personally anymore. This is important. Everything else is not. This is the point where speaking to Bob is just a delight for both. For the one who is asking questions and for the one who is answering because that level of commitment which Nisargadatta calls earnestness is It means there is just really really very very thin veil between the the reality and Well the filtering through the eye. It may be very desperate. It may be very painful It may it may feel very solid, but if that earnestness or commitment is there That wall can be penetrated, one pointer, that's the ripeness, that's the place where this fruit is so heavy and so juicy and so rich that the one touch can push it off the tree.

But what is actually standing in the way usually is that moment to moment we give importance to many other things. And that's natural also. It's just when that importance is recognized, it usually drops away. Like I can say, oh my gosh, it's so important that I will be at work on time, because there is someone there who really desperately needs me and they will be waiting, they will be worried. It's so important. Yes, sure. But then I understand that this importance and this idea of importance in the relative, in the dream, is just part of the dream. And I'm still going to be driving fast, but I will know that whatever the feelings or commentary or thoughts are going on, they're just the dream.

And that's the freedom. Because now there is nobody to take on board any consequences that are completely out of my hands. So now even though the situations like the importance coming up, you know, it's important that I don't forget to give Bob the tablet. They are, you know, they're dealing with the neurotransmitters in the brain, you can't forget that, it's just dangerous. I know, it's just, yeah, something's wrong with the internet, nothing we can do about it. It's not transmitting, it just stopped. Yes, so these relatively important things, they come in life and that's fine. It's just when we recognize, oh yeah, it's relatively important, yeah sure, in this moment, in the dream.

But what really matters, you know, if I have the commitment, what really matters is to see the truth. So that dream is giving me some juicy story that I have to rush, or I have to be careful, I have to watch out, I have to not forget, pay the bills, whatever. It's a beautiful, juicy story. It's the way the nondual one is expressing. But what's really important is to see it for what it is, the story. Because if I see the story, no matter how beautiful, how important, how stressful, how dreadful for what it is, just the story, I'm free. And the story doesn't touch me.

It doesn't mean that, yeah, I was telling you just before the meeting, it doesn't mean that there won't be, you know, if there is a pain, there will be tears. If there is an emotional pain or heartbreak, also there will be sadness. But that sadness is actually, there is a sweetness in it. There is a sweetness I remember recently I lost a friend who just moved on and I used to be so attached to her we would spend an hour a day on the phone Just so much love invested so much attention invested And then she just moved on because that's what she does. Yeah, that's it.

And then of course there was a sense of void, almost as if you get your limb cut off and you have phantom pains. A sense of void, missing, and sense of longing in a way, and a sadness. Oh gosh, I do miss her, I do love her and miss her. But there was also sweetness. Oh my God, how beautiful is that? How beautiful is that sadness? How sweet is that? Because this is really showing, because it's not my sadness. It is the sadness that appears in that body-mind. It's not mine. And this sweetness comes from recognition that this is love. This is how love expresses at this moment.

Oh yes, how beautiful. If that was me there, of course, there would be instance resistant. I don't want to feel this. I don't want to feel pain. I want to feel pleasure. But if there is a reason to choose whatever is felt, oh, what a beauty. The sadness, the joy, the jealousy, the anger, Everything is embraced as beautiful. And yeah, because when the dream is recognized for what it is, the dream, and the dreamer is recognized for what it is, the non-existent space-like basic screen, who is there to have the, who is there to resist what is? And that's the beauty. So this is another way, I'll just probably stop it, I don't know, Which is basically inviting for the investigation.

So, I don't want it this way, I want it that way. Who is the I? Who is the one who wants it? And now, if I'm really, really honest, I see the component of that I that wants. Well, wanting. Wanting, what is really wanting is kind of a sucking from within, right? A desire wanting something different. So it is a sensation, it's a physical sensation. Okay, you get it? Oh, thank you, Dary. Hello. Gosh, you look so different without your hair. Hello, how are you? What is resistance? I Am is a sense of being. But am I that sensations? Of course not. How can I be sensations?

They're coming and going. So they are noticed or observed on the screen of awareness. So I'm not the sensations. What else is that to the I that resists something? The idea that there is me putting that pressure or that resistance. But anybody has ever found it? Resistance is obvious, it can be sensed, it can be felt, it can be experienced on the physical level or even on the emotional level as a sense of uneasiness, of feeling. But has anyone ever experienced the one who is actually applying it? Who is applying the pressure resistance? Who is applying pressure on the muscles? Well, there will be obviously the oxygen running through the veins, there will be blood, there will be brain secreting different hormones or different neurotransmitters.

So the whole universe, that universe is applying the sensations, not I, it's the whole body. And of course body is connected with the rest of the universe. Body can't stand up without the air to breathe, water to drink, food to eat and a space to be. So actually there is no I resisting, there is the whole world presenting on the screen of awareness as resistance. So is it really my resistance? Now the moment I view the resistance as just another screen, as just another appearance on the screen, I'm obviously free. I'm the knowing of it, I am the screen and the resistance just shows up.

So how long is that resistance going to last viewed from this perspective? Just kind of like almost dissected that, oh gosh, that's just physical sensations and emotional sensations and all coming up from the factory that is, what a big deal about that. So, but that's the one way of investigating the resistance. So investigating the me one could say that is resisting and that can't be found. So resistance is just appearance. And when the resistance is investigated, it's usually gone and what's left? It's just whatever is, whatever is happening. Seeing, hearing, tasting, touching, smelling, this is what is left. And in the absence of any idea that there is someone who is experiencing life is already free unbound is experiencing is happening to itself is showing itself up to itself If there is no idea of separate self, in a moment when there is no resistance, there is nothing wrong.

There is nothing wrong when we sit here and nobody wants something else. Or maybe somebody wants Bob to speak, me for example. But when there is nothing wrong, there is no ego. It's not being constructed, it's not being invented to have any opposition to whatever is. So the world is not being opposed, it's not being resisted. So it's not being separate, really. In that moment when there is nothing wrong, When I don't invent the idea of there is someone here inside and there is world out there outside and they are separated by the body or by the skin, without those thoughts there is nothing wrong.

And when there is nothing wrong, this is called natural state. And a natural state is the state which is us in nature. Unless I think of a self or the ego, there isn't one. Without the thought or line of thoughts, line of the whole production coming and relating and constructing it from memory, concept over concept, layer over layer, accumulated throughout the life to build up the structure that seems almost solid, without maintaining that idea that there is a body, it was growing up, the body is mine, it's female, it's this, it's that. Without those line of thinking, it's just this. And if there is nothing wrong in this moment, that's the natural state.

So the problem with enlightenment starts here when we are already in that natural state in the moments when we are not constructing that fictitious entity. And we say, no, that's not it. That natural state, no. That must be something bigger, greater, must be a huge experience, must be a bliss, light effects, the ecstasy. Not this, I'm not there yet. I don't feel any ego right now if I don't think about it, but I'm still not there yet. Well, who says that and based on what? Because there is nothing in the nature that is outside of it And there is nothing in the appearance that is not it.

So now everything is that. But I'm not. How come? How could that be possible? I can only believe that I am not that. It's the... Actually what obscures the naturalness and the ease of the effortless being is the belief that I'm not that yet. So it is really about dropping off or questioning that one belief that separates me from the ultimate freedom or great enlightenment which is basically an absence of the belief in separate me. So now, easy to say. It doesn't, I kind of knew it theoretically in 2010 I learned that in India. But the me was still reconstructing itself. It was still, it felt like there is construction, like there is some sort of a contraction there.

It felt like, yes, I understand it from the top of my head conceptually that there can't be any me. Yes, I agree, there can't be. I still experience one, I still feel one. So, where am I going? Am I going to go with the belief that there can't be? Or am I going to go with personal experience that there is? That's how it seems like. It seems like because I believe in my personal experience so much that it seems real, but it's not. That's why they call the whole appearance Maya. We believe in the solidity of the bodies and the walls because they feel so real, we experience them real.

But they are not. It's funny, I was a couple of days ago I am talking to my baby sister and explaining her what we are doing here because she doesn't really speak English that well. I sent her a Polish dubbing and she says, you know what, I don't really know what you guys are talking about. I say, well, you know what, we are just a bunch of idiots who sit together and say, you know what, there is no you, you have no free will, you have no volition, there is no separate self. And we all sit and open our eyes and try to wrap our heads around it, which is totally impossible, and it makes it even more...

What did she say? Yeah, we had absolutely wonderful laugh. We were just laughing and laughing. I was actually intentionally presenting it in a way that is so ridiculous that you just have to stop trying. Stop even trying to understand it. It's like I was telling her that my mom was actually asking me a few times because that's what she couldn't really wrap her head around. Why is nonduality better than any other belief? You know why is believing that there is no separate self better than believing in anything else but Jesus Are we talking? Come on! You don't have any free will or choice? Come on, what about choosing my responses?

I can't choose the situation, but I can choose how to respond to it. Oh, sure, how valid is that? Oh, I can learn optimism. We have thousands of proofs. Attitude of gratitude, NLP has evidence, scientific evidence. Yes, sure you can, but who is that you? So the whole show gets ridiculous when we still hear it and experience it from the level of conceptual thinking and logic. It is not logical that there is no me inside. I can make it funny, I did it for my sister, I say, yes, you think you have a little thing inside there that is pulling the strings and controlling and driving the ship.

Nobody has ever seen one, but we all assume that there is. And everybody you ever meet assume that there is. So you never questioned, why would you? Nobody does, but there isn't. So this is what I was trying to unsuccessfully explain to my mother. It is not about having better set of beliefs. It is not that it's easier and it's happier and it's lighter if you believe there is no you and you don't take things personally. No. It is about freeing yourself from need to believe anything, better or worse. If you have better beliefs, yes, you have better attitudes, you have better habits, fine, your dream may be more pleasurable.

But it is about waking up, not about changing, rearranging chairs on the Titanic. It is going to sink. It doesn't matter good dream, bad dream. If it is recognized as a dream, that's where the freedom lies. So, believe that there is no me, that's not... Well, it may be a starting point, or it may be the kind of invitation to examine it, but it is not it. It's really believing in me that is blinding me to the reality of life. If I believe there is a me, I'm already confined, blinded, and I'm experiencing separation. It is about dropping the belief, not acquiring a better one.

Now I believe in me and now I believe in no me. Absolutely not. It is about checking it out, like verifying it. Don't let anyone ever tell you anything. Check it. Is there a me? Now. If I find one, wonderful, I'm going to believe in it. I won't even have to believe in it, because if it's there, well, it doesn't even need the belief. But is it? Is it? Nobody has ever found one. Not many is looking, not many people ever check it. But if they do, well there isn't one. So now it's actually, it's probably worthy to figure out how much you can, what you are associating with the me.

What, it feels like there is a me, but what is that feeling? Is that a feeling that, oh yeah, because I can tap my body and I can feel it, and I can tap his body and I won't feel it, it means this is a me and this is not me. Well, this is an assumption, because this is basically taking credit for having the tools to experience sensations. You know, I can have tools, I can have cameras all over, and I can say those are my eyes, extension of my eyes. I can have car and this is an extension, this is a vehicle for transport, but this is not me.

So the vehicle that is giving me an ability to sense the world is not necessarily what I am. And ultimately everything is what I am. So not just this body but everybody. But for the heck of pointing, this is why the pointing has throughout the ages always been constructed in the negatives. You can't figure out what you are because there isn't anything there that you can grasp. If there was a me, perhaps it could have been known in some ways. Not by me, because for me to know the me, I would have to be outside of the me. Obviously, I couldn't. But maybe Bob could know my me.

It doesn't happen. He can only have the image which is going to be changing. I can assure you he has a different image of me when I have premenstrual syndrome and I'm irritable and picky. And he has a different image of me when I'm just being blissful because of whatever, the beauty that just... Yes, gosh, I have a different image of the cats when they're getting nuisance. This is all fluid, there's nothing real and substantial about it. And it's always only made of thoughts and images and concepts and past experiences is always based in comparison to the past, so it can't be relied. So if I can't find the me, nobody else can find the me, obviously me is out of question,

I can't be found.

So what can be done, the reverse can be done. And that's the typical Buddhist investigation called neti neti. The reverse can't be done. I can figure out what I am not. So whatever I'm aware of can't be the awareness because it is a content of awareness. So if I'm aware of my body, I'm not my body. Apart from the fact that the body is constantly changing. So I can't be something that is changing because I am aware of the change. If I can witness the change in the body, I am obviously the witnessing, not the body. So same thing with everything else. Just like the body is changing, the feelings, emotions in the body are changing.

And the thoughts are changing. And the life situations are changing. All of it is being known. So all of it is a content appearing in the awareness. So the one thing that is never changing is the awareness and this is one thing that I can never be aware of. Can I be aware of my awareness? No, because I would have to make it to an object that is in the awareness and obviously I'm I am the awareness of it. So any attempts to make any pointer to be an object that mind is trying to grasp are just misguided, waste of time. Mind is trying to do it and that's okay.

It's good to just recognize it. Grasping awareness, grasping space, make it to an object and trying to identify with it. Okay, I will try now to identify myself as a space. Now there is no I that is trying to do an action and embodying or imagining itself to be space. This is still the activity of the mind. Now this activity of trying to identify is known and that knowing is completely effortless. It doesn't take any action, it doesn't take any trying. That knowing is effortless and that knowing can't be denied. Being and that knowing can't be denied and it can't be grasped as an object.

And if it can, for some reason, people may have really, really vivid imagination, what is the space in which that one is known? So, the one thing that can't be questioned and can't be denied is the fact of the being, the knowing of the being. And of course, there are questions often like, on the last meeting, Well, how about when we sleep? Okay, just ask me that question when you sleep. If you still have that problem when you sleep, wonderful, we're gonna address it. But in my experience, when I sleep the questions don't arise. So there's no need to answer them, there's no need to go to the mind, there's no need for any pointing.

So if there is a gap in the memory, in the recording of the activity during the sleep There is also gap in identification with the me, so there is no need to question. So there is no problem whatsoever. And of course, you know, the idea of sleeping is again going to the mind and going to the idea of time. Like Richard, he had a beautiful pointer which is really beautiful, like how from the experience it seems like this life essence is constructing that entity. Early in the morning I wake up, I don't really have all the memories of what I am, I don't even know which day of the week it is, but it slowly downloads.

Ah, yeah, it's Sunday, oh, okay, we do this, ah, okay, and this. So it kind of constructs itself when it wakes up and it deconstructs itself, it drops everything off and becomes just nothing when it sleeps and then the body comes up again. We don't know whether the body exists or not. Somebody else can tell us, but this somebody else is also a constructive figure in the dream. We can dream someone to tell us what's true. We can dream scientists to tell us what's true. That's beautiful. It's good to recognize it as a dream too and totally appreciate it. But even this beautiful model of constructing and deconstructing the body or the biocomputer, the entity, is gorgeous.

It's to be used, but it can be very easily thrown away if you see how it relies on time being linear, being something sequential, not being the reality of this moment right now. Because if there was a yesterday, where is it now? It is only in my memory. How about yours? Yeah, we had a big day yesterday, so Bob is a little bit tired. And before the meeting he did the bicycle exercises and yeah. But anyway, any ideas of the moment different than that are the ideas, are the mental images that I'm creating right now. And I'm not creating them and I am creating them, of course.

I mean, in a way they are showing up. And I as totality am expressing them through the body-mind. But I as the body have absolutely no doing at all with anything just like I have no doing with growing my hair I have no doing with creating manufacturing thoughts or choosing thoughts Yeah, that's half an hour. Yes, so now, inviting everyone in. It's actually a strong group. Everyone's been exposed to this for long enough. Is there any me left in there that wants to be looked at? And if it is, gosh, tell me all about it. We'll see if it stands up to investigation. If it is anything more than just random sensations, thoughts and beliefs just floating in the awareness.

No one? No miss. Someone will start soon enough, don't worry. Just chose the first question that I had as well. Well, that's wonderful, because freedom from having questions is actually, this is it. And Bob was, when he was in the hospital, he was actually asking me when I was covering up for him, he says, okay, when you finish speaking, do people jump with questions, or is there a gap, at least a little bit of a silence? Oh yeah, you know, first question is usually hard to come out. He says, great! That's it! If you can create that gap of silence when the question doesn't come, wonderful, this is it!

Because the question is the questioner. When I have the question, who am I? There is already an assumption that there is a me who wants to know. If the question doesn't arise, there is no questioner either. There's no one there, there's nothing wrong. I suppose I've got a noticing that I suppose if you swim in either the know-me stuff or the psychological unblocking stuff, that that's, you know, expansive, a little hidden long enough, you know, things just don't keep getting better and better and better, even, you know, better is just a term, but... Yeah, there's more freedom, there's more... I'm free and funny that you said the word freedom was in your head because that was the word coming out of here.

Yeah. That was precisely the word because like for example, you know, I might want my shirts to do a scarcity and stuff like that and that distracts from the no self. I don't have the sense of no self but I still keep going into the issues, you know, wrapped up in them. Given I've never located a self thing, so that's not really been an issue, it's been a bypass for me. www.cdc.gov.in I'm a bit of a computer addict. I'm coming from a very small amount of money to start with. It's very unlikely in the next year or something. Well, to even get the sound bit fixed.

It's just, oh, okay, so, you know, how much would it cost to be able to project the computer onto the TV and hear it that way, or whatever. Or just do it from my phone. And it was just freedom. There was just no oh no thought whatsoever. No investment, like no personal investment. and other times when they thought the computer might be stuffed or lost or something, it was getting less and less, but yeah, that was a really interesting one. And in fact it freed me up to then go and do the activities to look at the crowdfunding stuff I was supposed to look at.

Yeah, it was freedom. That's it. And there's been a bit of an underlung sense today of... Yes, not really this the patterning happening and it's not really me so much It's not complete disconnect from it, but it's It's constantly coming up. Mmm, coming up. That's not that it's fairly impersonal Cool, that's yeah, it has their parents that it makes it, you know, X and personal really I reckon it's just So it means that just as often as a thought comes up around something that's happening, a thought comes up that it's not really me, that it's really impersonal, but it appears to people that it's a blanket.

Blanket sort of sensation. Come here. Yes, basically. Come here. Freedom can happen when you swim in this stuff. And if you don't have the habit of contracting around psychological stuff, then if that's expensive for you, then freedom there as well. And I'm actually starting to think from what I've been hearing from people who have a clear no-self, But there's still behavior going on and they can't necessarily feel all the emotions that go with it. It becomes a lot more difficult to see the subtleties of, you know, they're just not bothered that much. And if they slightly bothered it seems to me it much easier to get rid of your blocks first because you can still feel the fear you can feel all the stuff wham bam it really damn obvious So I think some kind of disappearing of that stuff of certain patterns is kind of beneficial before a loss of all the sensations because they still have behaviors that might be blocking some little desires that pop up occasionally in little ways.

But it's much harder to see what's going on. That's a cool way to look at it, I like it, a cool way. If you don't really break through the sense of separation, but you're still in the process of losing the desires first, that's a positive side to it. Because when you already lose the sense of separation, you don't care. Yeah, you don't care, but occasionally you might get frustrated because something's not happening. But you're okay with frustration. Yeah, and you're okay with it too. It's too late! Yeah, but then occasionally frustration might come along. Well, this is a lovely idea here, but there's this lovely thing and it's not happening and can't locate why, because they're not feeling it.

Why would you even want to locate it? Well, yeah, but then occasionally if that little thing comes up, it spikes up briefly. Well, that's just a thought. Yeah, yeah, and that's also known, but then it can happen that way. And it's kind of lovely also, and also it's a pointer that may mean that more dropping happens. I Am That, Ramana Maharshi, I Am That, Ramana Maharshi, I Am. When things are triggered in, when they're not being triggered, there's no, I don't see sense of I, decision making never happens in each time. Nobody sees sense of I. Yeah, none of those things. Nobody can ever see sense of I.

The questions never even arises about any of those, decision making, all those things. This is a beautiful life, it is. Right into the dream there is no such thing as nonduality, because I am just dreaming about some particular thing. Yeah, I tell you, love is not a trade of belief. Yeah, but I like the line of thinking, finding a positive. This is the way the life is unfolding, and obviously the life is intelligent and this is a beauty in the way this is unfolding in you. It really is. It is a pointer which means that possibly there will be more of a movement to the dropping blocks rather than watching TV.

Just because it's come up as a pointer that this may be an effective thing. So it may happen more. That's all. And again, seeing beauty instead of feeling disappointed, that why didn't it happen yet, big bang, great enlightenment. That's part of the blindness, believing that there is a me to whom it didn't happen. Instead, you're completely uninvested in it and you see the beauty of the process, completely impersonally admiring it, this is it. And relaxed in it because it's not a thing. Yeah. And that's the freedom. Not wanting what is not. If I think I'm not enlightened and I don't want to be enlightened, I don't want what is not.

I'm already free. It cancels itself out. She's just relaxing to the things that aren't a block for this pattern, or for the particular, wherever you are. Yeah, loving what is. And then the light shines on the things that are a block for that. Yeah, being at peace with what is, natural state. Gorgeous, thank you. I think since I've been coming, Kat, I've noticed that what you were saying before, Just accepting things as they are. Or loving what is, you know. You don't realise just how much you do resist things, you know, unpleasantness or what you consider to be unpleasant. It is just following on from what Tony was saying, just that sense of enormous expansiveness and freedom and just being able to accept what is, whether it's upsetting or not.

I had invested quite a lot to go on a retreat to Ayers Rock just recently and it was with about 20 people and I was really looking forward to it. The night before I came down with gastro and I just couldn't go. I was so excited to go, and it was like I somehow knew that, you know, it was like I knew I couldn't go. You know, it was sort of like just things playing out, and it just wasn't the right time to go. And so it was even though there was the initial disappointment, it was sort of quite relieving, because I sort of thought, well, yeah, I can be really upset because I've desperately wanted to go, I was very happy to be able to do something else that wasn in the larger plan and to just accept that and to be happy with that It was so be it sort of thing Beautiful because now you can see that me I disappointed but life what is this Now my will or doesn matter Sobhiyyat If it's for you, it will come back.

Yeah, that's right. Yeah, amazing. It's to be able to actually really embrace the... this level of agreeing or accepting what life is offering. Like, you know, for whatever reason, life is throwing... They say even the so-called spirituality says, nonduality says things are not happening to you but for you, you know, for you to grow, for you to... Of course, it all assumed that there is a you and the you are getting, receiving all the things that are gonna make you better, stronger, freer from concepts or barriers or whatever. And those type of beliefs, they can actually give a little bit of a relief or like some sort of a soothing balm on the ego thrown apart, having all the accidents and incidents happening to it.

www.nisargad.com.pl I wish, I'm so grateful it never happened otherwise. But really the whole commentary of adding meaning is not necessary. You can look at life in a way that things happen as they do. Now I can have a little story about it, but I will know it is a story. And I will still see how beautifully that river goes through the rapids, banks, waterfalls, stagnants. Life is just unfolding and I can give it a meaning, positive, negative, neutral, and I cannot do anything at all and just stay silent in awe. That's what it is. Bob has been diagnosed with Parkinson's. Okay, we don't say this is horrible or this is great.

No, nothing. It's just, ah, okay, that's what it is. Or he needed hip operation or Jim has the, you know, it's... There is no adding to it. And when there is no adding to it, obviously all the adding and meaning making is strengthening the habit of going to the head and creating drama. And satisfying our need for strong feelings, strong sensations. Because that drama will make, of course, if I say, my God, this is so dreadful, then my body will secrete hormones, cortisol, it will shrink, it will be a lot of things going on there, and that will be intense. This will be entertaining and that will be reinforcing that separate me.

That will be, that is reconstructed in that way because this is happening to me and this is so dramatic, this is so big. And of course this is not to undermine the dramas. Whenever something juicy is happening to people, it is absolutely to be embraced. And when it's unbearable, it is to be helped, to carry around, take it on your back and carry. Of course, pain, suffering, dramas, yes. But it is not necessary. The life can be lived in a way when things happen, and the good and bad and pleasant and painful, without the labels, they are just things happening. And they are all met in that silence.

Okay, this happened. Now we want a story about it later on, life will deliver. And we can take it on board as true, as gospel, and reinforce the I, or we can just watch it, oh, what a movie, what a story, and still meet life with whatever it shows in that silence. That's what is. The seeing, hearing, tasting, touching, smelling, thinking, that's what is, as it is at this moment. And savor it. On the beginning it may feel a little bit blunt. Like come on, without the story, without the drama, it's nothing to think about, it's nothing to chew on, it's nothing to get excited, stressed.

We are addicted to this strong bipolar pattern of pain-pleasure, pain-pleasure, and throughout life we are chasing this pleasure so bad that we desensitize our natural sensitivity. The people who never go to nature, who never smell roses, who never listen to music or background, who listen to anything, because they're so desensitized from the present moment and so attracted to the drama that gives them these highs, emotional highs and emotional lows. And of course... You want some water? And of course with that lack of sensitivity they need to... because if the dramas are mostly highs

Fantastic. But you can't experience high if you don't experience low. To experience more of the high, and if this is the mission life has in this body, it will have to deliver the background.

There won't be a day without the night. There has to be a background of the opposite. So now we go on the bipolar, we go on the drugs, we go on anything, and it becomes unbearable. As much of the high, that much of the low. And where is the balance? Where is that how to learn again to appreciate the silence in which nothing, seemingly nothing is going on. And the stillness in which seemingly nothing is going on. But when we find it, like when we really drop off into that background, into that nothingness, there is never nothing going on. And what is going on is that mind can only reflect memory, imagination, future, past, the stories that mind is chewing.

But what is really going on right in this moment is absolute miracle that is completely missed because the mind takes things for granted. The mind takes future and past, it happened, it will happen. The miracle of the mental images is completely lost. The fact that whatever, the carpet, the glass of water, they exist, they have being, they have this stillness in them, they have this solidity, but they don't. They are atoms circulating, vibrating, there is nothing there, and yet they appear. The thinking cannot take us to the intimacy that we can have with the reality of the moment. The intimacy in which I recognize the reality as the extension or expression of my own self.

The thinking can only give us highs and lows. And the natural state is something vastly more, I wouldn't even say satisfying because who is there to be satisfied? But there is a mystery and magic in just simple being without running to destructions, to trying to be somewhere else, think of something else, experience something else, taste, touch, smell whatever, something but not this, Chasing something that will make me whole and complete. Bigger meal or better adventure or better partner or money or status. That's a slavery. That's a bondage. Wanting what is not is a suffering. Wanting what is, actually you don't even need to want it.

Wanting what is, is actually freedom from wanting. This is funny, this is how the ego actually tricks us to believing that once you get your perfect job or your wonderful partner or your great car or whatever, you are going to be happy. And why would the mind say that? Of course, because it has experienced that for so long. As a baby you want the ice cream and you throw the tantrum and the mother gives you an ice cream. Tantrum is gone. Wonderful. So the moment of relief from the tantrum, it's not the ice cream that makes you happy, it's the absence of tantrum, it's the absence of wanting that makes us happy.

So we get, I remember I was asking one of the captains I was working with if he can tell me about the most happy moment in his life. And he says, I passed the exam and I became the captain. And this was something, a wonderful, wonderful, brilliant guy, but this was like for, he was, he started from the deck crew. He was a deckboy, then he was an ordinary seaman, then he was able-bodied seaman, then he was a bossman, then he was third officer forever. He didn't go like I went to the study five years academy and I got the license right away, then just the sea time would make me a captain.

But for him, he didn't do, he started from scratch and it took him lifetime and he needed to go back to do the courses and prove himself, 30 exams. It took him, I think he was 50 when he became a captain. He was dreaming about it since he was 13 years old. Imagine having a dream who motivates your life for so long. And by the way, he is probably one of the best captains, if not the best I was working with, because that motivation make him, he was single-pointed. Now he got his license. 40 years of desiring gone or 35 whatever gone. Imagine a relief coming from this.

Contraction. I want it. I don't have it. I want it. I don't have it. What else can I do to get what I want? Now, please, he didn't want anything. I did ask him how long it lasted. Well, he's honest enough to say he's still working as a captain. He still enjoys it, but I've seen him angry, I've seen him frustrated. It not the same sense of relief from suffering But this is what following the desire basically does It promises us the happiness and it delivers but the happiness is not lasting because the happiness only comes from the absence of the desire, the absence of the craving.

I want it, I need it, I won't be happy unless I'll get it. So when this condition is resolved, how quickly we start craving something else. How quickly when we get our dream job or dream car or whatever, jewelry, something else. Because the seeking mind has the job which is seeking. It wants something next. That's its job. And it is doing it beautifully and it should be acknowledged. If there is an idea of getting this body more comfortable, more happy, that seeking part of the mind is seeking. Enlightenment is one of the things it is seeking. Whether it is a big car or it is a huge amount of money or it is an enlightenment, it is still a thing that the mind is going to provide to make this better, happier.

How wonderful, how beautiful. The bigger thing is taken care of, the more trivial thing will turn out. That's it, yeah. Whatever it is going to seek is always that beautiful intention of self-love. And then when another big thing comes, you go, oh shit, I wish it stuck. What a waste for all that trivial stuff to be bothered about. Because another big thing was around the corner, you know, to bother me. That's all they're running from them and trying to get, but yeah. But see when the identification with the seeking mind is broken, when I am not the seeking mind anymore, but I'm the witnessing of it.

I can totally love it, I can appreciate it. I can appreciate the seeking mind when I go and do the grocery shopping and I buy the nicest, the healthiest greens for Bob. I'm seeking them. The seeking mind is trying to get better. But I am not that. I am not identified with that. The seeking mind is the tool, but I am the screen using the tool, the awareness using the seeking mind. If I was the seeking mind, the dialogue would be completely different and I would never be satisfied because the job of the seeking mind is to seek, it's not to find. The finding mind is to find, seeking mind is to continue seeking.

If I identify myself with that, I'm fucked. But if I'm witnessing that, I can love it, I can appreciate it, I can be free of it, I can use it. I Am is the witness, the knowing of it, not the pattern. I is witnessing, that I has to be witnessed. And so on. It's just a progression. It seems to be a solid package, but actually if it gets seen more closely, it's just things popping up one after the other. It gives an apparent overview. Like you say sometimes about the movie, that you have the stills moving so fast that they create... I think it's solid.

But if somewhere, like you were saying, you learnt in India many years ago, to kind of look for the gaps, or that the gaps are the thing really. And I think, I guess you guys made it clear to me a couple of years ago, so it's sort of been coming from there more than the other way around. And yeah, it's just, it's always, that just seems the pertinent thing to have the filter for. So it just seems pertinent here to filter, or it has seemed that way because that's what's happened, to filter for where are people coming from openness rather than where are people coming from not getting this at all.

And it's just suspiciously seems, there's a suspicion here because I can't know that, I'm just pops in you know flashes and no one knows as humans don't know it's not known that flashes in as much as any kind of ideas popping up about what the stories coming about what how could be it's not knowing is also popping out and and also seeing where the gaps might be and also try driving people into their gaps yeah rather than assuming they're not getting any of this and they're Thank you for watching. I am sorry to interrupt but I am going to look for the disconnects I Am I Am I am not there really.

Bob often shows that, and it's a beautiful example, see how much more space is there than there is objects. It's just so much more obvious, so much more of it, but the eye is constructed the way that it picks out objects. I've heard that metaphor before, because I always thought he was talking about literally people don't notice space, they're not really aware of their full environment, but actually that level of metaphor, You take it down to what's there when you're not thinking about it as opposed to the thing arising inside when you're not thinking about it. Yeah, there's a lot more space. Absolutely. Okay, cool.

That's the way you have to hear the things over and over sometimes. In the mind, we're always going to objects too, you know? Thought processes, what are you thinking is an object. That's right. So we go to that rather than the space beyond it. M.D. It's actually, you can even see, sorry, you can even see how space, we are not seeing space but we see objects. And exactly as you say, the same thing happens in the mind. We don't really notice the mind can't grasp the silence, the gaps between the thoughts. It grasps thoughts and thoughts are objects. Thoughts are objects in the space of thinking, just like physical objects are in the space of seeing and the sounds are in the space of hearing.

Like really everything is just emptiness and form. Whether the form appears as a sound or as an object that is seen or as a thought, there's still emptiness appearing as form. They're just different way they're vibrating. The way Bob is talking about, there is just one vibrating into various shapes, forms and patterns. That's probably about the most beautiful and direct and precise expression or description of what's going on. Constantly. The one cognising emptiness or intelligent space appearing, vibrating, stillness vibrating into different forms. And the body is one of the forms, very complex. There is so many sub-vibrations there going on. The thoughts, the complexity actually grows with the attention.

The further we look, that very energy coming out from my eyes is making it more complex. That's how whole appearance look like a Schrödinger cat experiment. If the cat is there in the box but nobody watch it and it's a 50-50 chance that the cat, you know, there is some radioactive thing, the cat is alive or dead, well, the reality is the wave of probability. There is no solidity if there is no observer. That's... Yeah, the whole physics is just showing that, yeah, we are imagining the observer, we are imagining the self, we are imagining the solid world. There is just energy appearing as matter.

E equals mc2. So... Don't worry about turning the camera. Okay. I've got a book that says that according to... They can at least hear you. According to Heisenberg principle, the more you look at something, the more it changes, the more you affect it by observation. That it actually isn't something separate, but it's the one thing. Absolutely. Same happens with psychology. The psychology says the more often you are relating the story, the more complexity, depth and differences the story will gain. Every time they will be slightly different. It's like really, it is a life, it's so transient, it's moving, there's nothing still, there's nothing that stays the same.

And it is constantly recreated by the light of attention. So by seeking the ultimate understanding, it's a myth, because there is... from that point then I'm standing and still looking at something else, looking at the next horizon. That's the tricky bit. Very good one. Yes. That's the really, really tricky bit. We need a drone with a microphone to detect where the sound is. We got this one from the guys from Los Angeles But unfortunately it grasps that if I put it here Tony won be heard and Bob won be heard either It's omnidirectional instead of unidirectional. Yes, but we tested it. That's the best. So, yeah, look, Kat's mentioned on a couple of occasions how tricky this self is, this me is, or the mind is, or just the thought process is.

And when we first get involved in this, it's kind of initially liberating to come to see that thoughts just arise and disappear. That there's no thinker of the thoughts. They just happen, you know. And I've said it a hundred times, and you can test that. If you have any control over your thoughts, just stop thinking. But the nature is... literally just up, not many people can, thoughts will just come and go. So we start to see that. So there's an education process that happens by coming to this group or groups like it or self-inquiry. There's an education that happens and you start to see things and initially you might come in here and all the The breath that's rattling around in our head is so close that we kind of wear it like a skin.

There's no separation in it. We can't see it occurring. In other words, whatever is occurring, I am. We sort of just become it. So you come in, you're asked to look and look and look and look. You get challenged with, you know, do you choose to think the thoughts that you think or do they just arise? And after a while, you know, there's like a separation that seems to occur. You start to shed that skin of being the thoughts and you arrive in a place where you're actually able to start witnessing them. And you witness them and you witness them and then you go through a whole long process.

Well, that's a relative term. It takes as long as it's going to take, I suppose. But then you seem to go through this long process of acquiring, acquiring information. You know, I see this, I see that, I see I'm not that, I'm not that, I'm not that, I'm not that, I'm not that. It even says, and I can't find a me. I can't find a me. I Am Aware of all the thoughts that are rattling through my head. I'm aware of it. The last, the very, very, very, very last thing to be seen, and I, it's like a, I'm going to call it a core me.

The reason it feels that it's lodged in the body is because that core me completely identifies with the presence, with its presence, with the aliveness, with the awareness. It thinks it's that. So even when there's awareness of all the jargon that goes on between our ears, all of it, even when there's awareness of that, what you'll find is that there's a me still there claiming ownership of that awareness. I'm aware. Once all that veil is seen through, like really seen through, I've heard Bob say it a thousand times, and even other people in the group. And it kind of sounds a bit sarcastic, and it's not meant to be, it's really not.

But eventually you'll get to a point where someone is going to say to you, who wants to know? Who really wants to know? Because in my experience, I saw it all, intellectually. My me saw it all. Let me rephrase that. I thought my me saw it all. I thought my me saw it all. Nothing to do with the me at all. Awareness was aware of it all. That natural state. But the hook is that last little bit, you know, and you kind of get to a point where you go, look, I know, I know, I know, I see it all. I've been doing this for ages.

Yet I still feel like I'm here. I still feel like I'm stuck. We don't question, it's really interesting, the last thing we question or the last thing we seem to look at is that last core me that's going, yep, got it, but I'm stuck. We don't look at that, because initially when we come in here, we think that the me is just nothing but the content of all the thinking. We go, oh, if I see that, then something's wrong. I Am Me I have a question, I know that I'm not going to answer it, but I do know that there is a core there. That was my experience, just purely speaking from my own experience.

And that core me, that final, let's say, that final me, what I discovered was that it was identified with that sense of presence. The me, my me, believed it was here. In other words, here, present, present. And then I heard myself going, I still feel I'm here. Sorry, I'm, I'm, sorry, rather, I understand, but I still feel I'm stuck. It was really weird that that was the last core me that I saw. Oh, oh, that was the weirdest thing. Like, why that wasn't seen first? I don't know. Well, and then what I discovered was that the reason that that core me felt so real was because what I said before, it identifies with being present.

I Am. I was just trying to figure out that last little bit of clinging that my self-identity was doing. That last little bit. Because it went... and it was obvious. I still feel like I'm fucking here. What the fuck am I missing? And I went, who said that? What the fuck was that? What's that about? You know? So it's really interesting. For me it was kind of, the understanding came to me in layers, or in a couple of layers really. And first it was just observing all the thoughts. Yeah, okay, yeah. And I can say I haven't got free will. Yep, yep, yep. This is how tricky this mind or this me or this dualistic, so-called dualistic person or thinking can be.

I got it. Yeah, I see it. Yeah, of course I can see I haven't got any free will. Who the fuck's saying that? Who the fuck is saying that? Me! Yeah? So it can get real tricky, but to get to that point of seeing that core, by the way, there's not a core, But there was the identification with that presence. To get to there, I had to peel back the onion. I just had to. I had to. Bob often says, just reach in and pull the fucking whole plant out by the roots and throw it away. And that's all in good. And that's what occurred for me in the end.

And that's when you sat in a chair and did whatever for how long? Yeah, well, I became extraordinarily, naturally interested in presence. Totally. I just saw through the illusion of that final sense of me. You know, the last thing that I had to let go of was this sense of presence. I had to let go of that because I was owning it. It's mine. It's my awareness. I didn't even know I was doing it. I really didn't know I was doing it. You know, I was so caught up in going, yeah, yeah, I see all that, that, that, that, that, and that, and I understand and...

Yep, I got it. Fuck, and I'm still here. You know? So that, you know, you'll hear people say, I've heard it a couple of times here today, um oh I see a thought come up and it an uncomfortable thought and I just choose not to get involved in it Or I can see that I not accepting something Or I can see I need to accept something. That's all fine, you know. That, that I just described, is that first layer. Seeing what you're not. Seeing all the content of all the thoughts and seeing all that. This is the So there's a deeper looking... Well, it's time to do that.

Yeah, there's a closer... You've said it before, you've told me before. Yeah, so there's a closer looking that just happens. You can't make it happen. You fucking totally can't make it happen. It'll happen when it happens. If you can at least start to observe that process that goes on, you know? Okay, there's bad thoughts going on. I'm just going to accept them or I'm going to shine the light of love on them or whatever. And somehow that's going to make me feel better. Who? Always comes back to who? Who's doing that? Who's thinking that? Who's feeling that? Who's having an opinion on that? Who sees that?

Who sees I'm not accepting? Who sees I'm having Bad thoughts that I'm now choosing to push away or accept. Who wants to feel better? Yeah, or who wants to feel better. Yeah, beautiful. Peggy's watching us. She says, thank you, Terry. Shining, brilliant. Yeah, beautiful. Well, last week, I don't want the camera on me. Last week when we left here, we went home and then he had to go to work and the night I was home on my own and it was nice and, you know, in my element, beautiful. When he came home, somehow, I was having good thoughts prior to him coming home. When he came home, said something about, I don't know, something and didn't acknowledge and I got angry.

I was so angry. Then I started to say something to him and again he changed my subject and I got angry, really angry. I'm thinking I said I'm going to walk out on him. I'm going to go, I was so angry. I'm thinking why am I getting so angry? And then he was sort of saying things that didn't agree with me and I was getting very, very, very, very angry. But meanwhile I'm thinking who's getting angry? It's really hard when you're really angry to ask who's getting angry? Why have I got this anger? What's all about? Then he said to me, why don't you do your homework?

Why don't you say, I'm doing that. Don't talk to me. Just don't talk to me. I'm doing that. Just let me be. And by doing and doing and doing it, all of a sudden this peace came. He wasn't my enemy anymore. He became my friend again. Yeah, but that's it. Stop that and I was just completely gone like it never happened. But something happened. This something happened. Look sometimes... When you sign what you sign, I relate to it. Well, like I said, there's a a seeingness that seems to have to happen before that. There's a scene that seems to have to happen before that, because you're right.

If you're stuck in the middle of something and somebody goes, who's it happening to? You just want to fucking punch their lights out. Yeah, you're so angry and you just want to punch their lights out. Fuck off! What do you mean who's it fucking happening to? Me, you idiot! You know? So, when you've got all that noise that's going on around whoever it is, All that noise, rather than going, oh, who's that happening to? Perhaps look at the validity of the stuff that's coming up. Is it real? And you're not doing it, because it's just coming up. Yeah. I was so involved. Yeah, but it's being able to get enough distance from it to go, That's interesting.

Look at that shit coming up. You know? And the more distance you get from it, the more you'll start smiling when you spot it. You just do. There goes that foot again. And you just smile at it. After that I could. So it loses its, it starts to lose its sting. Well, one thing somehow ceased. Out of the blue it just went to peace. Then I started talking to him, explaining to him exactly what happened. I said, I know I instigated, I know this is what I did. I was aware of every step that took place, but there and then I was like a volcano.

Everything he said was just not in my favour But as I said but after at the end I was really proud of myself which I normally am not like that Proud of that I actually did something to get out of it. Beautiful. Beautiful. Now I've got to do the other one, like I was telling you before. It will just happen. It will. It will. Just observe. Just try and sit in a space of observation and see that it all just happens. It's got fuck all to do with you. Nothing to do with you. When I realised that anger after, I thought, it just came out of nowhere.

I wasn't in that mood at all. I am a scholar of the The Lister get to a point where you can identify that there's a me there. It's got nothing to do with the other person. You're just being affected by a thought that's floating through. Then you want to attach it. And that's your fault. And he did not give me the right answers because he said, that's it, we're not going there anymore. And I turned around and I said, you're not, I am. I'm still going because I want to go through this. I have to see these things through. So just watch. Just try and watch.

Watch it. You're not doing it. You're not doing it. It just happens. So, Terry, a couple of weeks ago you explained something about the seer from the head, that there's no head, there's space. I am a person who is not aware of the existence of the mind. For you there is no head, but there is the space which is looking. Try and describe that space. Well, space is everything. From your own experience. Well, it seems like it's coming from here. If you've actually seen that, try and describe it. Well, I can't. It's beautiful, and you've seen it. You've experienced it, because you can't describe it.

You absolutely can't describe it. So, if a Scotch is looking through this space, why is it that I can only see, or he only sees what I can see from here to there, you know? Oh, that's easy. That's because you don't have an eye here, an eye here, and an eye here, and an eye here. He's got a couple here. So it's related to the physical, just the same. Of course. I can't see that way. That's right. I can't. But let me tell you, that's enough. Fucking that's enough. That's enough. More than enough. It's awesome. So there is that space. There is that... So that space is looking, so even though we say there's no head, or they call it the headless body, but they're still looking through those seemingly eyes which...

It seems that way. It seems that way, but it's actually awareness. Yes. Because awareness can see all directions. Yeah. Yeah, but it's awareness. It's not a looker, or a looked at, or even a looking. Kind of is the looking, but it's an awareness. It's just an awareness. That's all you start identifying with. The eyes, and the looker, and the seer, and the seeing. If you don't do that, it's just awareness. Looking is already filtered. Like there is an awareness of being that is space, and now if you filter it through the bio-computer, you change that space-like awareness into the seeing, space of seeing space of hearing That is already filtered See the singularity the one space awareness The pure bliss of being now is channeled through one camera The It is all there is.

But to see itself, because this is all there is, there is nothing else. There is no awareness of itself. So awareness is unaware of itself. To be aware of itself, it dreams the other, it dreams the object and it looks, gives itself the vehicle to experience the other, seeming other. So as the awareness, it doesn't need the body. But through the body it can have a glimpse The body is limited because only awareness is unlimited. That's why it has many bodies to look through many different nooks and corners of the appearance. It's only inferior if you think about it though, isn't it? It's what? It's only inferior if you think about it and I think that's what Terry was saying about the it's all wow, that's enough.

I Am Self-awareness. That experience that you had of no head or nothingness, space, whatever you call it, and I said to you, describe it. You can't. That's because that's what it is. So there's no awareness of that. There is no awareness of that. It is awareness. So there is no awareness of awareness? Correct. It implies two. There is the split. It's what I was talking about earlier. Yeah, I see all that, but I'm still here. There is still a split there. So yeah, I understand it all, but I still feel stuck. We are. I think that's what we are, and that's what we are. I Am the One.

I Am the One, I Am the One. Something happened, I was really upset in the dream and then after a while I was really angry, I had knots in my stomach. All of a sudden I got this other thought that said that it was only a thought. Bang! And that changed everything. Because I realized that I was getting upset, the thought was making me upset, then it came up that it was only a thought. In other words, what are you upset about? It's just a thought. That's it. Yes. And all those in... here's the trap though. All those insights that we have, catching a thought and all that stuff, we still think it's me doing the catching of it.

Well you did phrase it, the thought came up, looking for the game version rather than the not getting it version, the you are getting it version. You did say the thought just came up, so that's a good way to get away from this. But it was clear as a bell, like, as long as someone was talking to me, you know, says, what the hell are you complaining about, what are you upset about, it's just a thought, you know, words, what are you learning, you know, put it into practice. So here's the thing, any of the insights that you're having along the way is not the me having the insights.

They just aren't the thought. That's not to say that the insights aren't real or true, but it's not the me that's having the ins... It's not the me that's seeing that. It's not the me that's becoming aware of that. It's not the little phantom Tony. Well, there's no me. Full stop. It's awareness itself. Yeah. It's always awareness. Which is what you are. Beautiful. There is no me. Full stop. That was beautiful. Thank you.