Sailor Bob + Sailor Kat - Non Duality in Melbourne

Yeah, you're gonna do an intro at least. Well, Kat's taking over again tonight and I'm gonna have a rest for a while. The operation and all that knocked a bit out of me. The mind's gone a bit. I'll rest and recuperate a bit. But she'll take it over. It's like 11pm given when you go to bed. When you get up, I guess this is like quite late for you. So, away you go. Yeah, so it's only a temporary setup. Hopefully not for long. Because, yeah, you missed out. He's handing it over to me again because he feels that he still didn't recover fully and he forgets words and so on.

So, he actually blackmailed me yesterday. I say, you know, my role here in this household is to keep him safe. Keep him strong and fit. And keep him talking because it's his time. My time may or may not come later. But not now. But he says, if you don't wanna do it, I'll close down the whole fucking thing. No pressure. Yes. Which we don't wanna happen because I do strongly believe because I did get him strong and upright already couple of times. So, I do believe that he will be strong and upright in next couple of weeks and he will be craving to speak again.

So, whoever is listening, whoever is watching, whoever is coming, just be patient. He'll be back on stage. Yeah, we'll get on with it. Yeah, so we can be rough today because everybody knows what it is about. So, we can be rough. What's the most confronting? What is rough? Rough. Like, you know, when you go and you look at a person and you tell them, you know what, you don't even exist. You have no free will whatsoever. There's nothing you can do. There's nothing you can do. You've got no choices in life. Like, you're totally hopeless. Life is totally running you, throwing you over the, you know, like if something bad happens to you, it's just life doing it.

You have no saying whatsoever. So, like, try to go out and tell that to people on the street that they have no saying, no free will, no choices, no responsibility. What do you mean? Come on. What if, what about all these bad people? Don't they have responsibility? What about the pedophiles? Don't they have responsibility? Well, they do collectively with the whole rest of the world, with their parents bringing them up, with their grandparents bringing the parents, with all the accidents and incidents that happened throughout their lives that made that pattern what it is now. Yes, the responsibility is distributed to every particle of air they're breathing, every piece of food they're eating.

The responsibility for the badness and the evil in the world is collected. It's all life. It all belongs to life because there is only life. There's nothing else. It's all one. So that's rough. That's rough because, of course, it doesn't mean that we're going to close the jailhouse and let all the pedophiles go walk on the streets or murderers. No, life is building jailhouses also. Life is isolating them. Life is giving people ideas to keep the society in the shape and form it has. So, yeah. I think rough is a 30s term for full on. 80s is full on. Full on thing to say. Confronting.

Australians, confronting is their favourite word. I used to say you're so rough that Mrs Kelly wouldn't let a little boy in here play with you. Yeah. And Bob is so rough that all his step-sons, they call him Ruff as the first name. Oh, hi, Ruff. Ruff, how are you doing? Oh, all right, Ruff. Ruff is some sort of a sacred, secret nickname going on in Adamson's family. Get on with it. The thing they will... Can I be Ruff? Can I not? Yeah, I have no saying. I have no saying for what I'm going to say. I have no saying whether it's going to be Ruff or not Ruff.

Yeah, that's the fun of it. Looking at life from this point of view. Looking at life from this perspective, from non-dual perspective, there is no sense of guilt. Because whatever I do, if I screw up, I may feel a sense of wanting to make up for people or make amends. But even that comes from life. Even that comes from the patterns that have been introduced to this body-mind in early programming. So really, in that standpoint, every life is just like in nature. It's like river flowing. Bob has this beautiful description about the river. You want to tell us the river going through the banks? No, you don't.

Oh. We can listen to the melody. Yeah, so we can be less Ruff now because we have first-timers. And you may feel in also because you're good at dealing with first-timers. Give me some space. Space to pass. Where are you from? Earth. Oh, you don't know where you're from. My friend Dan, Dan Herbertson, he's from Absolute MMA, a mixed martial arts gym. And I was talking to him on the way up to Sydney and he mentioned you and I thought I would come and have a listen. Yeah, hopefully he will say a bit more because he had a rough few months now. And he's a little bit forgetful and he's kind of handing it over to me, which temporarily only.

Oh, good. He will be back. Yeah. Yeah, so I don't know how much you know, guys, about non-duality because we started from the ideas that are very confronting. That there is no you, therefore you have no free will, no choice. It's just thrown, life is just throwing you like a river. Yeah. And basically just like a river flows through the sandy banks slowly almost stopped at times. Nothing's going on. We feel stuck. And then it goes through the rapids and then waterfalls and it breaks down and it evaporates. It becomes whatever, sky, water, rain, whatever. It's just how life leaves itself. We have as much to do with our thinking as we have with circulating blood through the body.

We don't do it. Life does it. We don't beat our heart. Life does it. We don't even do seeing. Life does it. We don't even quite understand how. Science have some certain explanations, better or worse, that are changing every few years. But how it happens? The seeing is happening and the assumption comes that there is a me. There is an entity inside that is seeing. Or maybe that I am the body and I as a body am seeing. But how can I be the body? The body is constantly changing. Five, ten, twenty years ago this body was completely different. There was no wrinkles on it.

And thirty or forty years ago the body was little. So if that was me and, you know, there is something in the body that is witnessing the change of the body. That is witnessing the aging of the body. And there is nothing that was there in the body twenty years ago that is here now. There is not one single cell. Bob sometimes shows that beautiful analogy of how the body actually came together. The food that the parents have eaten enabled the whole factory to manufacture the little cells like a sperm in the father and an ovum in the mother. They come together and they start dividing and dividing and dividing and dividing and creating the embryo which grows.

But that original cell which came together is long since gone. It has divided in so many parts and the parts came into whatever organs is gone. There is not one part of the body that has been here before. Even ten, five, seven years ago. Not to mention they are all made of atoms which are just a piece of information vibrating very fast. So if I was the body, which part of the body is all changing? So the ideas, spiritual ideas are that, okay, I am not the body. I am using the body. The body is the vehicle of expression. I am then a soul. Bob loves the idea of soul.

You have three souls, Bob. He is not going to, oh my gosh. Two souls of the shoes. He is not going to jump in. Anyway, the other ideas are that we have an ego or entity. Soul or ego or entity. There is nothing. There is some little dwarf inside the body that is driving, that is controlling, that is thinking. Nobody has ever found it. But apparently most of the world believes that it is there. There is a me. There is a little I inside the body that is choosing the thoughts. I will choose what I am going to think tomorrow at noon. Or I will choose what I am going to, what is my opinion on this or that issue.

Well, if we look closer into how the thinking happens. If we stop going with the popular assumption but really check. We will very, very quickly learn that the thinking happens just the same way as sounds. The thought happens in the head just the same way as the sounds happen. There is a tram passing or there is a car passing. I didn't think it to exist. It just, or the sound of the bird or the sound of the car. They just come up. Same way the thoughts come up. Of course they are triggered. They may be triggered by situations, by other people's thoughts, by questions. But the set of thoughts that is likely to come up will be also resonating with this particular computer.

Of course if there is this type of software that will be that type of responses. But I can't choose them really because there is no entity that could choose one thought over the other. And even if there was an idea of choice, that very idea of choice is just another thought that comes up. So the same way as the body is manufacturing sweat, the same way the neuronal connections in the brain are manufacturing mental images. So that all happens just like a river, just like in nature. So the idea that I am an ego or the entity or the soul or a little dwarf inside.

That is controlling the thoughts or reactions that can be very easily questioned. Like the way Bob is showing how to question it is through the seeing. Like we don't do the seeing. The seeing is there. When we open the eyes in the morning, the seeing is already there. And then the thought comes. I see. But the thought, I can't see. We can close the eyes and see if I can see anything with the thought, I. No we can't. And the eye is an instrument. It's just like a camera. If the computer is off, the eye can't see. Hey. So without the life essence that is animating the body, the eye can't see.

The heart can't beat. The lungs can't breathe. So everything in the body is relying not on the soul or the ego or the entity, but on that life essence. And this is where the non-duality actually sits. It says there is non-dual, so it's only one. So the life essence is the only one, is the only thing there is. Yeah, unfortunately he's being lazy again. I mean he's being tired. He had a tough time. Robin sits here. You can sit here. Yeah, yeah. Come in. Just go and eye on the door. Mm. Just prove to be easy. Yes. Yes, so the non-duality says there is only one.

There is no separation. All the separation that we experience through the sensory experiences that we can hear separate sounds, we can see separate body, are all just a condition of the senses and conditioned by the mind. When we were little children, we learned to label things as separate because that's the way the instrument has been trained to operate. And then we were trained to label ourselves versus world. So suddenly the separation came about only when the child had enough words to use the memory. So the first words we may learn as few months old, but about enough words to start conceptualizing, compartmentalizing and organizing in the mind is about two, two and a half.

Depends on the language also. Because some languages are easier to learn. And so then the idea of I am the body and the world is outside of me. I am within the skin or even a little bit outside of skin because if someone comes that close to me, that will be already a violation. So maybe I am a little bit outside the skin, but this is me and this is not me. It came with the words. We learned that. But we learned that very early. So this learned. Perspective has been reinforced throughout the whole life. So now everyone takes it for granted. Nobody even question it.

If there really is a separation and there isn't because the body is totally relying on the elements on the air that is breathing. So the air comes in. It feeds the body. Oxygen travels down, feeds the cells. They changing airs of CO2 goes out the water. It replenishes the body. The food which is the matter. Air, water, fire. What was it? Fire, earth? Space. Space, yeah. Yeah. So the body is completely connected with the environment. It can't be taken out of it. Like the water, if we take out the water of the body, it will be ash. Or if we stop supplying the water, I don't know how many days, not long.

So the separation is only conceptual. It's only learned. And the basis. And the baby, when it's first born, it apparently doesn't even see clearly. It see blurly and upside down, whatever. But as it learns, and this is a beautiful, beautiful way that this human pattern has conditioned itself through the learning to actually create separate world of objects. And through that world of separate objects, the appreciation and the love for the whole appearance is possible. Because also in non-duality, it is called appearance. Since there is only one, there is only life essence, everything that seems something different or something else, something more than one, must obviously be just an appearance, just an illusion, just a rainbow.

It seems to be. Atoms are empty. They're just vibrating very quickly. Like helicopter blades. They vibrate so fast that it looks like a whole steel blade or the anything. It's just the very beginning. Yeah. There's a vibration that makes the world seemingly real. There's a different vibration to the wavelength. There is a different vibration to the sound wave, different vibration to the matter. And then even physics tell us that E equals MC squared, which means the energy is matter, matter is energy. They're all one. So that being all one, how to experience it? This is the question. Not how to experience it physically. Because physically, we're going to be experiencing it.

We're going to be experiencing world and Bob is experiencing world just like everyone else. That's the mystery of the whole thing. There is nothing different than this, this moment. The way we are seeing objects. That's how it appears. And it's nothing wrong with that. It doesn't mean that the great enlightenment will suddenly make everything light and flashy and everything will be full of a broccoli shining. No, it is going to be seen as it is. As forms, as objects, as separate objects. But the stink goes of it. Because now, knowing that this is illusion, knowing that the separate objects and the separate sounds are just the appearance, we can fully love it and appreciate it.

There is no need for anxiety. There is no need for trying to gain. And again, to actually manipulate, control, gain, alter, modify, fix the dream comes from the idea that as it is, it's wrong. And whose opinion? That's knowing experientially too, isn't it? Just to verify rather than knowing, understanding intellectually. Yeah, sure. Because otherwise it might be confusing. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, the knowing, yeah. Experiential versus intellectual knowing. Yeah, this is the start point actually of any non-duality discussions. Because usually in absence of any other ways of hearing things, we hear it with the intellect. We hear it with logic. So whatever fits in, oh, I heard it before.

Yeah, all right. It makes sense. Then we may actually, okay, I agree with it. I don't agree with it. Oh, this is a little bit far out. There is still a lot of filtering going on. There is me, my opinion, my world. It fits in to what I heard or it doesn't. And in this way, we completely miss the message. Because what it all says, non-duality, there is no me. There is no free will. There is no choices, responsibilities. There is no separation. If it feels like it is, it is only because of the condition that we have, because of the physical body that we're using, the whole sense is how they work.

But this is not so. And it can be investigated and can be seen through. So when we see that there is a personal opinion, there is a personal judgment, around this or that concept, then obviously there is an invitation to see who is there, who is judging it, who is the one who is comparing it. What is it in the mind? Is it that little dwarf that we think we are? Or is it body doing it? Or is it mind doing it? Or perhaps it is another random thought that pops up. And the moment thoughts are recognized for what they are, the life starts losing its thing.

It starts becoming really, really nice and easy. It starts flowing. There is no resistance. Because when the thought of resistance comes, and I see it, oh, that's just a thought. I can relax back and flow with life. And then another thought comes, the same thing may happen. So non-duality is an invitation to question who is there, who is the one who is comparing it. Who is there to argue with reality? Who is there to offer any resistance to the flow stream of life? And if that who is resisting proves to be just another thought, just another idea, just another habitual concept that comes from the early conditioning, then it can be basically, it will just fall off itself.

And in absence of resistance, life flows effortlessly. There is no suffering anymore. Because the suffering is coming from the idea that things should be different. Bob has this beautiful quote that is saying it all. What's wrong with right now if I don't think about it? What's wrong with the world if I don't think about it? What's wrong with myself, my life, anything? What's wrong if there is no thought? And if that is really investigated, if that is really experienced, and if that is really understood, it's not much more that needs understanding. If I understand that every problem I can ever have in life is the idea in my mind.

And yes, it doesn't mean that I won't fall sick again. But being sick, or having an accident, or losing the money, or a loved one, or whatever. If I don't have the idea that things should be different, I don't suffer. There will be pain if I'm sick or handicapped, yes. But there won't be a suffering. There will be pain, even an emotional pain, if someone close or dear to me goes away or leaves me or dies, yes. But if there is no idea that I shouldn't feel what I feel, I may even delight in it. I may delight in a sadness. Like if someone close left and, oh gosh, I'm going to miss her.

And I wouldn't want to be neutral. I wouldn't want not to feel that connection. I wouldn't want to be a zombie who doesn't have the feelings. Not that I have any saying, if the feeling comes up, feeling comes up. But if there is no idea, that it shouldn't, there is no suffering. So the life without suffering, which Buddha was promising, is the life without resistance, is the life without relating, is the life without self, separate self, without center, without that little dwarf or ego or soul or whatever we believe that is inside, or that it is the body that has any saying. If there is no contradiction, like life flows and is going to show up, and is going to manifest everything.

There is going to be joy and pain and sadness and suffering, and well, physical, physical pain. And there is going to be day and night, and there is going to be drought and flood, and there is going to be emotional drought and emotional flood. And if there is no idea, if there is no one here to say that, oh, it should have happened to them, not to me, why is it happening to me? Then there is no problem. There is no problem. We have the cats, they are upstairs now. They are a great, great demonstration of how whatever happened, they have a quick fight. And then, well, it's not really a fight.

They are just bored. They just roll together. But five minutes later, they sleep and cuddle up to each other. They don't hold onto anything. They don't relate into anything. They don't have the self-center or the ego, but they still look after the body. They still eat the food when they are hungry. They still know where the toilet is. So life without ego, life without center, life without belief in separation is the life that is leaving us right now. And this is where it all boils down. That life, that so-called great enlightenment or that absence of ego is already so. It is already so. If I believe I have an ego, I'm just a believer, but I don't have one.

Nobody has an ego. Nobody has ever found or seen an ego. If there is a habitual pattern of relating to thinking, well, there is just a habitual pattern. It's not my pattern. Even if there is a habitual pattern of saying, this is my, this is my problem, my life, it's just a stream of thoughts that are a habitual mechanical pattern. Nobody has an ego. Nobody has an ego. Nobody ever had an ego. This is a collective belief. This is like almost, I don't know how much, a lot of kids, six, seven year old, they take it for granted that Santa Claus brings them gifts. And they go at school, and what did you get from Santa?

They believe it. It's totally real for them. And they get bitterly disappointed when they find out that they've been fooled for so long. One friend of mine, she never, she, she, she refused to do it. And she put kids to even worse turmoil because they were the only kids in the school who didn't believe it. Nobody liked them. So, so we do live in that conviction. We, we're fooling ourselves. There is a Santa Claus. Earth is flat. Or I am an ego. I am separate person. And we live with that conviction. We live that truth. And we believe it so strongly that it becomes reality.

It's like, it's like the beautiful placebo stories about people dying of fourth stage cancer and agreeing for experimental medicine that is going to cure them in two weeks. And they walk off the hospital completely cured. And then they read the article in the, in the medical magazine. Yeah, that was an experimental. That was placebo. And they fall in cancer and die. Placebo, when we believe in healing, when we believe we loved, we thrive. Believe. The whole thing is a game of belief. Even the way we perceive reality is a belief, is a conditioned belief. We learned that as children. We learned to see. We learned colors, shapes, forms, sounds.

And that is a projecting and receiving machinery. That is a collective hallucination. And we are hallucinating as life, as the life essence, hallucinating the transmitter receiver creating, transmitting and receiving the world. They interconnected. They won. World cannot exist without me acknowledging it. And I, the body mind, cannot exist without the environment. So there's only one. There's no separation. But of course it's not easy to see. Same as for a seven year old. It's not easy to see that the Santa is not real. And for hundreds of years, the whole science, greatest brains in the world, wouldn't question that Earth was flat. And then again, for how long the Earth was going around the Sun.

And they would kill you, burn you at stake, if you would say otherwise. The same thing happens with assuming the personal identity. There is no personal identity. It feels like it is. Just the same way it felt like there was Santa Claus. So that's really all about it. And yeah, there will be more stuff coming up. Maybe Bob will contribute. But... Can you say a bit about until it feels like it doesn't, you know? Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. Yeah, there is... It's not only a possibility because it is a certainty. The way, the waking up from the idea of separate self is waking up to the fact that there never was a separate self.

So the moment... That's how it happens. And about... I didn't hear that many stories, but about every one of them says that when I discover, oh my gosh, there's nobody here. But there never was. There never was. It doesn't mean that, okay, I have my great experience walking through the park or doing whatever, sitting with Bob. And that great experience relieved me from the burden of self. I will never be self-obsessed again. The week earlier, prior to it, I was running my life. I was driving my ships. I was making my money. I was sorting my relationships. Now there is no me. The me died and nobody does it.

No. No. I was never, ever running my ships and running my relationships. Always only life did it. Just like the Santa Claus. Children were receiving gifts. When they realized Santa Claus was not real, the gifts didn't disappear. The gifts were still there. If the kid got the bicycle, the bicycle is still there in the garage. So if there was an idea that there is an ego running this body three years ago and the ego is going to work or making money, and now the realization came upon that, oh my gosh, there is no ego. But it doesn't mean that the money hasn't been earned. Life prepared this body to look after itself.

Life prepared it. Expressed through that body. The way a child is learning how to walk by falling and getting up, learning words, nobody does it. The ego is not developed. The idea of the separate ego is not even developed back then. So the ego is a learned, learned, how you call it, it's just a mental image, mental, conceptual image that is learned and is embodied and is believed so strongly that people die for their beliefs they die for the religions they die for their pride or the honor or whatever and this is all just thoughts running the show so now waking up from the thoughts running the show is not entirely possible because the thoughts will keep occurring the thoughts will keep running the show the thoughts will still well they are there is a possibility with a brain brain damage or Alzheimer or whatever that the thoughts won't be showing up but if the thoughts are still there creative thoughts or whatever even judgmental thoughts they're still there and they are understood for what they are they're not a problem anymore if the thought appears and this is just a thought what's the problem it's no problem it's just like sounds are not a problem unless of course they threatening for the for the safety of the bodies suicidal thoughts would problem be a problem but sounds sights whatever they just appear on the screen they just appear in the blank screen of awareness and that awareness is what what that's that one life that one life essence that one emptiness cognizing emptiness which means intelligent intelligent space forms vibrates form sound sites forms sounds sounds sounds sounds sounds sounds sounds sounds sounds sounds sounds sounds sounds sounds sounds sounds sounds sounds sounds sounds sounds sounds forms objects matter that one space is what I am and show up to you know tell the other kids that said it does exist and tell the parents that they still believe in it you know yes like so life would still you know use the word I to everybody out there totally as everyone else believes it is yeah there is literally no difference they say there is a famous zen saying before enlightenment chop the wood carry the water after enlightenment chop the wood carry the water life is just the same only and this is what Nisargadatta was saying but beautiful beautiful description recognize dream as a dream and the rest will be done for you there's no need to do anything else just know that this is a dream when the thought the conceptual world takes you over you completely miss out on life you don't see here taste touch and smell because you're so preoccupied and busy with the drama going on here in the commentary just wake up and see ah that's a dream and that's it it's nothing really more to it just recognizing moment to moment dream for what it is it is a dream waking up from the dream it's a different story it's probably gonna happen when the body dies and it stops dreaming but as long as the body is there there will be seen there will be hearing seeing tasting touching smelling All that seeing, hearing, tasting, touching, smelling is Maya.

This is all appearance, this is illusion. So this is dreaming. The world is being dreamt and is being received and transmitted. So waking up to the dream is the invitation. Waking up from the dream is none of our concern. Right now it will happen or it won't. Who cares? I mean, what usually brings people to spiritual search is suffering. So waking up to the dream, understanding the dream for a dream, is waking up from suffering. Because if there is no need to suffer, life just does its thing, and now it's winter. Okay, well, bad luck. Okay, fine. I prefer summer. Well, so what? If there is no one here who has the problem, or objection with what is, there is no suffering.

So that's it. Yeah, go. We're not talking about the mental. Tell me, come on. No, so, you know, more sort of natural lifestyles, like Eskimos or Aboriginals in the days gone past, when they had just a much more natural existence, and they had their whole, you know, dream, dreamlike also, I guess, understanding of life. Those sorts of people, basically then, they're superior, because in a sense they know these things already. I don't know about the superiority, because see the way the whole... They suffer less because they know what is. You can tell now that the dogs and cats are superior also, because they don't have an ego, they don't know suffering, they are okay with whatever.

Whatever happens. And are they really? Like, can the dog or cat, I love them to bits, but can they experience waking up if they never fallen for a dream? So if the... I don't know how about Aboriginal people, I didn't meet that many, I worked with few of them, but they had a strong egos. The egos, yes, they were more in tune with nature, they were open-hearted, beautiful people, but the sense of separation comes with the language. So if they speak language, they already know the language, they know the labels, and of course animals have language too. They have sounds, you know, the birds are warning each other, and the wolves or whatever, they do have language.

But as far as the science is concerned, the part of the brain responsible for hallucinating separate self is undeveloped in the animals. It may be to certain extent in chimpanzees or big apes, but animals, no. Because the whole sense of separation, the whole sense of separation, the whole sense of separation, the whole sense of separation, is a hallucination, is a conceptual image, is a learned belief. And now if you don't have it, if you don't develop it, you can't wake up from it. But in more tribal societies there isn't... Yeah, there may be. So it's much less of the potential of awakening, much less of the, I don't know, much less of the beauty of that enlightenment.

Because, you know, in the duality and the whole appearance is... That's how it is designed. It wouldn't be there if it wasn't appearing dualistically. There wouldn't be day if there was no night. There wouldn't be a body if there wasn't a space around it. There wouldn't be a sound if there wasn't a silence. Everything comes in interrelated opposites. And it has to come this way, otherwise there is nothing. So now falling for a dream is a prerequisite for the awakening. If there is no falling for a dream, the awakening is impossible. And now, how is that cosmic self or universal intelligence or life or awareness or cognizing emptiness, how is it really to know itself if it just is?

It's just being. There is nothing else. Being. That's it. How can it know itself? To know your own being, you have to just get out of yourself, to know yourself. To actually experience the being. How can you get out of yourself? And if you do, you're not knowing the being, you know something external. So the only way the intelligence can grasp a glimpse of itself is to reflect itself. It's never going to find itself, it's going to find a reflection. So this is how the emptiness becomes form. It reflects in form. It finds the glimpses of itself. And unless you have, you know, see, it seems like a human development enables that intelligence to grasp the glimpse of itself.

Because if you don't have the sense of separation, if you just flow like a river, your awareness of being and your awareness of intelligence is one. You can't actually experience it as the other. But when you think you are an ego, when you think you are a separate self, and then you wake up to the fact that, oh my God, I'm not. I'm the totality. I am that emptiness. I am every form. This is my face. Wherever I look, I have a glimpse of my own self. Only because you forgot completely, you fell for a sleep of being an individual. And as individual, what do you know about God Absolute?

Nothing. Only what you believe about it. It's not, it's not really experienced in the way it can be experienced when you wake up. When you wake up from the obstruction, because really what, what is, what Bob is always saying and what is absolute truth every moment for everyone, you already that. You can't be anything else than that because everything is that. So you are that emptiness manifesting as forms, dreaming that room, dreaming everyone in that room. You are that already. But on top of it, you believe in Santa Claus. So basically, you are that. You're waking up to what you already are. You can't work your way through meditation or practice to become something enlightened or someone superior because this is again the whole idea of becoming someone superior, someone better in future.

It's a dream. This is a dream. So you can fall for the dream and have a wonderful life going for the meditations and singing and why not? Life does it. Life is playing that play for many, many people. They're dreaming different dreams and that's beautiful. But you found yourself here. So maybe you can wake up. Yeah, yeah. Wake up to what you are already. You are that. You are that. You are that. You are already because you are not going to become something. You're not going to be waking up after da, da, da amount of meetings. You are that already. You can't be anything else.

See how your body is functioning. Your heart is already beating. You're not doing it. Your hair are growing. You're not doing it. You're not doing the seeing. You're not doing the thinking. You don't know your next thought. You don't know what you're going to be thinking in five minutes. So it is already happening. And then on top of it there is idea, but you know what? It feels kind of tight here, you know? I care more about this than about that. And the problems are on mine and they're serious, you know? And they kind of make me shrink inside. They make me insecure. On top of it I believe that, you know, I have to work on me.

I have to become better because I'm not good enough. I'm inferior. I'm unworthy. Those are all just thoughts. Just thoughts displaying on the screen. And oh boy, I believed it all my life. I believed in the thought of unworthiness, of low self-esteem. I believed it. And it was totally experienced. People were telling me, different gurus, before I met Bob. When I met Bob I didn't believe it anymore. But I believed that it was my reality. And when they were saying, no, no, no, you can't be separate. You can't be because everything is that. Everything is that life expressing as forms. How could one you be apart from everything else?

You can't. But I say, yeah, you know what? But I don't feel it. I feel that sucking void there. That sense of inferiority. And it's there and it's real. I can't look at people who are, you know, the captain on the ship or a guru. I can't look at them as equals. They're not. I want what they have and I don't have it. That's all beliefs. If I believe, if I believe I'm ugly and stupid, I'm ugly and stupid. And if I believe that I don't deserve or I'm unworthy, yes, as you wish. That's the beauty of the appearance. It's like that story, I think you Bob were saying that story about the wishing tree.

Can you tell us the story, please? Please, please, please. I don't know it as well as you. Just one, just one. Look, I'd be talking if I could. Okay, okay. So the story about wishing tree was that the guy was walking the desert. I will probably blow it. Was walking the desert and he found the tree on the desert. Oh, how blessed I, how lucky I am. I'm going to sit and rest under the tree. And he's sitting and resting in the shade of the tree. Oh, how wonderful. It would be ideal if I only had a nice meal. And then, bang, the meal comes up because it's a wishing tree.

And he says, oh gosh, if I only had a nice meal. If I only had a beautiful drink with a nice copacabana with little umbrella. There you go, the drink comes in. Oh gosh, I'm so lucky. I would just love a beautiful comfy bed to relax under this tree. And the bed comes up. Shit, what is going on? What is going on? Maybe there's something wrong. Maybe there is a devil. There you go, devil comes up. Oh my God, devil is going to eat me. End of the dream. The devil eats him. But this is how the belief system operates. We believe in the solidity of the room.

Then we get the solidity of the room. We believe in the solidity of the body. There you go, solid. We believe in the separate self or the ego. Well, yeah. We believe the ego is inferior or unworthy or has to work on itself or whatever. There you go. As you wish. It's only the matter of questioning that belief and seeing for what it is. It's just a belief. What if that wasn't true? What if the ego, the insecurity and the vulnerability, what if that is just a line of thoughts appearing on the empty screen and I am that screen, I am that knowingness on which all that stuff shows up, comes, appears and disappears.

I remember Toni, this is what she actually embraced beautifully when she first came and she came, she had guts, she was bold, she had guts, she came from New Zealand with hardly any money, hardly any work experience, there was no job here, she had some support and benefits in New Zealand, nothing here, just googled enlightened people, she was really determined to find out the truth and she ended up here and Bob told her, you already that, embrace it, try to live as if there was nobody there and she did. And she did, she didn't question it, she believed him. On the beginning it was maybe a faith or belief.

The non-belief never turned out, so it was just, might as well do this as much as anything else. Yeah. It kind of made sense. And how is your life now? Yeah, well that works, like we're having this discussion at Carl's today, a lot of people talk about, oh somebody's viewing, check out if that's really real and go, oh who's viewing that, da da da, and that's like a wave going into it. For me it's okay, go there as if it's already like that, and there you are, and as soon as you start to think about it, okay that's blowing. But if you don't, if it stops before that, and this just comes up like that, it's not, you know, it just turns up that way, it just gets triggered by the environment, you know, a number of times a day, and there's many, many times a day now, but here the hyper-vigilance to the environment, the scary aspects of the environment just go back to the head, as many times a day as it goes the other way.

You know, it can be very brief, and, but it's just not turned up to do it another way, so, you know, who knows, maybe there's a package of information from another life where that was all sorted out, there's so many stories that could describe any of it, but what just happens is that that's an accessible way here. Yeah. And to start with, it was just so few moments, you know, that there wouldn't seem to be no other ways in, so that was appreciated, because that was something Bob would say occasionally was, you know, notice the times when something just happened, and you know you didn't do it, you know, you're fully aware that it was just a moment where nothing was going on, no meaning making was happening around that moment.

Yeah. So, when you said those ones, I really took them to heart, because that seemed to be the only ones that were super available here. And so, it's just like more and more and more and more of those. And that's a very good idea. And some awakening transmissions too, but there's never really been anything except, you know, the, the, the, the, the, just wait around and, and see what turns up really is just what's, yeah, more and more and more. So, this is, I mean, this is just making up a story, but the big bang, everything will dropping away, may or may not happen, doesn't need to at all.

It could just keep going until it's just, you know, 99% of the time, not going back in the head as opposed to 99% of the time going back into the head. Yeah. Yeah. And even that, you know, even that you don't really have to, you know, have preference about it, because if you actually re-evaluate your life, just, just like I did out of curiosity really, to see how little I've done as a doer, like you say, whatever you didn't do anything, you don't do anything. You don't take decisions. You suddenly see how the whole world contributes, like, you know, the, he is sailor Bob. I used to sail on the ships for 17 years, how the whole world contributes to that decision to emerge for someone from the ex-communist country to actually find a way to make progress, you know, to make the world move.

And so, I think the way to the maritime Academy who was predominantly who was actually forbidden for women how did that thought occur and how did the action follow was it the really anyone here who has done it who has chose it I needed the permission from the ministry I needed to do a lot of shit and there was a drive here that was just showing up the drive the passion I realized that and I knew it all along a lot of my friends back in Poland were proud of me oh you know what I like to talk about how brave you are so determined you were no I wasn't it just happened I didn't choose any of it I didn't do any of it it just happened I have I haven't done a thing in my entire life things just happened and I can't take credit for anything and including the relationships that fail and the mistakes that I've done stupid things I can't take credit for any of it because the whole universe contributed to every single moment it is it it is not a solo play it is a dance where everything is contributing and everything is connected not even connected it is all one just manifesting in different forms so to actually critically look back and see artists often do it and and you can't you can't you can't do anything about it you can't and and you do it also when you do editing of your films oh no I was in the flow I didn't do it it just flew through me you know musicians are also do it they in the flow sports people they use the expression zone I was in the zone so I wasn't there you know there wasn't any commentary going on like if the football player is is about to kick the goal and he is having a thought oh my god so many people's looking at me what if I if I won't make it ah he's not gonna make it is is really the absence of the commentary or if the commentary is there is to ignore the commentary is the way to live effortlessly in the in the sense of flow and when you realize that the commentary is just belonging to the completely imaginary conceptual image that has been created only because that's the way society conditions its members and it's very effective and a very beautiful and very creative way to condition members to create create the morality, what's right, what's wrong.

This is great, this is just such a brilliant dream. Like moment to moment you realize the infinite brilliance of the whole show, of the whole dance. Of course, not if you take it personally and seriously. If you take it personally and seriously, it is all wrong. Everything's wrong. Politicians are wrong. Starvation is wrong. The climate change is wrong. Yes, and on the relative level it is wrong. You have water? Yeah. But on the ultimate level, nothing's wrong. And all that really happens is a thought might pop up, oh that wasn't believed in, that's interesting. Yeah. It just pops up. Yeah, not too much more to say.

Okay, come on people, speak. But it's the same, it's like you say, it was just like a thought came up, oh I think I have to go to Australia. Oh I think it's going to, I kind of need to go to Australia. Yeah. And then the flash in, it's going to be uncomfortable. It's probably going to be a bit uncomfortable, I've only got 900 bucks, you know, whatever, I just have to pack up my whole life, whatever. But it's like, yeah, it's just, it's just an urge. You didn't do it. It was just a movement that way and I just kind of suspect, I could see it there.

And that's before I really knew what this was about because I really had to learn it here. But some things were just never there for the last two or three years. Some of the decision makings doesn't come up and all that stuff and mental note taking. But when it comes to the mental note taking, it's just, it's just, it's just, it's just, it's just, it's, it's just, it's just, it's just, it's just, it's just, it's just, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It's just it's hard to understand that. Because I've had these moments where I've had this moment that way and I've always had this moment that way, and I just kind of suspect I could see it there.

And that's before I really knew what this was about. Because I really had to learn it here. But some things were just never there for the last two or three years. Some of the like decision makings doesn't come up and all that stuff and mental note taking. But when it comes to try and understand social media, mental note taking is there, ownership. A bunch of things are there, but around non duality, it's not there. Cool. taking is there, ownership, a bunch of things are there, but around non-duality it's not there. Cool. But decision making isn't there around the other stuff really. Decisions happen, they totally happen.

There's no phrases that come up, oh I need to make a decision, there's no ownership there, it's just like oh okay, now we're doing this, now that, oh okay. But there's a lot of separation, like a lot of ownership there popping up for a bit. Oh yeah, oh I could bloody make cuts. Use this non-duality doer. Cuts taking decisions, if I put the beef in one piece of their bowl and I put the kibbles in the other, oh they don't know how to decide and choose, absolutely. What's that? Yeah, the decision making. It's so meaningless to me, decision making really. Yeah, you've got a good way of explaining it, but my way is, it's like you have an iceberg, one iceberg's only ever going up.

It's going to get there first, but above the water, we don't know which one it is. So people make stories about one getting there before the other and they don't know which one it is. Yeah, I like that one. It's a load of shit. It's a nice big ship. It's only ever one set of happenings, but even though I kind of, that was borrowed from the mechanical universe that you know, mass, matter has an momentum and so it's all just kind of, the whole life just does that. Even that's not true, because the last time I looked, it was, there may be some plasma and there may be some strings or there may be some, you know, things, just a positive negative charge.

They're all just going into each other and disappearing, but they have no idea. Yeah. Still, it's been kind of handy to not be locked into another view, just to see things as occurring, you know. It's just, it's just so relieving to not need to follow and understand. We can never understand, so what's the point? Yeah. Did you guys have any experiences with non-duality, like anything, like meditation or anything? Any insights or? Like, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. You know, when I'm listening to this, but the more I think about making decisions, that it is just like, well, sit there and think about it just kind of happens and you go with it.

So it's kind of freaking me out a little bit. Yeah, yeah, finding comfort in that and trusting it, just trusting it. Interesting. Mm, yeah. They happen, like every thought happens and some thoughts are more kind of attractive and charged so they will kind of pull the body this way. Some other thoughts. thoughts will kind of be repulsive. Yeah. It's such an intelligent design. The thoughts that resonate with you will be kind of attractive. Like, you know, I'm not interested in football, but I'm interested in psychology. I'll be... that body is just attracted to some things and not the other. Yeah. It is. You've actually been exposed to this.

That's really quick. The whole idea of... Can I look at that? And I know, because we've all been there. You know, when you first get introduced to this, it's like, what the fuck are they talking about? I mean, seriously, come on, you know. Because we're just so used to walking around believing that we are somewhere, ever since we were so big. And everybody else is walking around believing they're somebody as well and comparing them. And they're just going to be themselves with others. Throw that in there. And, you know, Kat spoke beautifully on the notion or the idea of having free will. If you start to watch yourself throughout the course of the day, you'll realize that you will feel, based on what thoughts are going through, you will act on, based on what thoughts are going through.

You know, you'll have opinion on yourself in relation to whatever thoughts may be happening in that moment. You'll have opinions on others also, or the world, or politics, you know, whatever, you know, anything, based on whatever thought it is that's arising in that moment. So our whole... that whole self-identity that we believe ourselves to be is based on whatever it is that's floating between our thoughts. If you take those away completely... I often use the analogy, you know, if I could just tap you on the shoulder and create amnesia in you, complete amnesia, no recollection of parents, brothers, sisters, where you were born, what jobs you've had, anything.

Like, it was just all completely gone. If you can even try for a moment to imagine what that would be like, well, it would be the absence of all your conditioning. That was cool. I got a good buzz from that. Beautiful. Do you have a glimpse in the morning before you download all the shit when you wake up? Yeah, of course. It's the same thing. Like, if I'm going to meditate for a period of time, it's to realize that state, to clear the clutter, so to speak, to get back to that realization of... that perfect example of amnesia, so to speak. So if you come back to the notion or the idea of free will.

Now, as a person, prior to getting exposed to this, and even maybe on the first couple of meetings, I still believed there was me doing the thinking. I'm choosing what I think. I mean, I'm not plugged in or connected to anybody else. Obviously, they're my thoughts. I'm thinking them. And with that comes the idea of self-will. I'm in control. I'm choosing to do this. I'm choosing to do that. I'm choosing what thoughts I'm having. I'm choosing how I'm going to react to thoughts that I'm having, and so on. And like you just experienced, if you're able to create amnesia and wipe all that out, it's just a stillness, an absolute stillness.

So the notion of having free will is really based on the idea, just the idea that I'm choosing what's going on here. Now, it's really, really easy to test that. So easy to test that. It's so easy to test that. Just sit there for five minutes, 30 seconds, and choose to think absolutely fucking nothing. And I mean zero. And if you can't do that, you have no free will. Yeah, I can never do that. Right. Therefore, therefore, you are being lived. If you're not choosing any of this stuff, you're not choosing anything that's going on in your mind. And it just, you never know what the next thought's going to be.

You just don't know what's going to pop through. You know, it pops through. Yeah. So you're not the creator of that. You're not the source of that. And you can look at it in terms of, even in the language that we use. My thoughts. Who's the separate self that's claiming ownership, of the thoughts? Because there's got to be a separate self there, saying, my thoughts. Or as Bob says, you know, my car, my house, my phone, my keys. When we say things like that, we know we're not the house, the phone, the keys, or the car. We know we're not that. But we don't see that when we say, my thoughts, or my body.

Who's the my? Who is that? Like, what is that? It implies, even saying, my, implies that there's somebody prior to the my, that's claiming ownership of something. And the trap that we fall into as human beings, because we've been conditioned to be that way, is they're all my fucking thoughts. It's all my thoughts. And what I am, and you need to see it for yourself though, what I am is based on what I think. There's no thoughts, amnesia. So everything, what we believe ourself to be, who I think I am, is all based on nothing but a thought that floats through. Now you can be aware of thoughts, can't you?

Can you be aware of your thoughts? Yeah. Be aware of your thoughts, okay? To be aware of your thoughts, you've got to be separate from them. You've got to be able to view them. To be aware of them, you've got to be able to view them. Do you understand that? Yeah. But we walk around, believing that what I am is what I think, and we wear it like a coat. Whatever I think is what I am. I'm not separate from my thoughts. Yeah. Yeah. Yes. That's the belief. That's the belief. Most people have that belief. I'm not separate from my body, I am my body.

I am my thoughts. I am my thoughts. And the tricky one is, most people can kind of, they'll be okay with being contemplative, and maybe you have an intellectualization of that. But when people are emotions, because emotions really get you, so it's like someone cuts you off in traffic. Or if something really sad happens or whatever, then all of a sudden, like, you are that emotion. Yeah, they manifest in the body. Yeah. And that's really, that's the trickier one for people to, to disassociate. That's just something that's coming. Or experience, or like a mechanism that's going to keep you alive. Like fear is a good sense or emotion to have.

Yeah. But it's a tricky one, the emotion. We identify so much with it. And I notice more people, like most people that are in spiritual circles or awake circles, they'll say, I'm not my thoughts, I'm not my body. But they'll quickly language, and they use language like, I'm feeling this. I'm, like, I'm feeling this way. I'm feeling this way today. And, you know, they become their emotions. So the split's still there, is what you're, what you're indicating. Yeah. The split's still there. Yeah, of course. Yeah. So, in the language that we use, and I was touching on it before, you know, when I said, my car, my, my thoughts, my body, my emotions, my feelings, yeah?

It implies that there's something separate from those things that are experiencing those things. And in Advaita, oh, God, I hate using that word now. I really hate using that word now. Anyway, it just came out. Triggered you. It just came out. Yeah. Boom. Yeah, but all spontaneous. That's all. No word is true. Yeah. What we're encouraged to do is to go in search of that so-called entity that's there, that feels, or believes, it's separate from the emotions, the feelings, the thoughts, the body, the entirecome, all of it. Everything. Everybody else. And so on. So here's something really, really interesting, which I think is, it popped into my head today.

I went, Oh, that's pretty fucking cool. Give it. Give it. That's pretty . So non duality is about singularity. Everything is one. So there is no separation. The whole, And that can be really hard for a split conceptual me to get its head around. Really, really hard. The only way that can be realised is when the me is absent. Then it can be realised. Not intellectually. I'm not talking about intellectually. So the whole idea of my mind, my car, my body, etc., etc. And again, remember I'm talking about singularity. Isn't it interesting? If you really check this out for yourself, and everyone check this out.

I fucking did today. Why didn't that come up earlier? Anyway. Notice how wrong or uncomfortable or just wrong it feels when you say my I. I'm not talking about those. My me. Owning the ownership. Just just. Because we go. You know, part of the teaching, you know, eventually, hopefully, as you get to a point, you just fucking surrender. You just completely surrender. And then you're encouraged to sit in the I am. Just sit in which just means presence. Sit in the presence. And even in the I am, there's a split there. So it's still just a pointer. That I am is still just a pointer.

But when you say I. It's completely singular. It's completely absolutely. I. It's not connected to anything or just. I. So it's really difficult. So the what that implies, if you really look at it is I comes first prior to my or prior to the split or prior to this conceptual idea or understanding of who I am. You want to say something about. But it still has space around it. Like Kat said before. I think you must pick that. Yeah. I saw you. I saw you light up there. Yeah. I met that. We put it my my body, my mind and my soul. Who's self? And we think that self.

We make that self a personal self. And we try to liberate that personal self. It won't happen. But if it was I self, I body. It's the one self. Everything is that self. Nothing other than that. And that self is the one self. It's self aware. It's self knowing. It's self shining. It's self. This self. That's the only self there is. There's no personal self. Personal self is ego. Yeah. Why do we all have different feet? Seriously. Why do we all have different feet? How can we be the same? Yeah. What's not different between you and I right now is the fact that I'm aware.

And you're aware. And there's no split. There's no. What's the word? Separation. It's just clear. It's just clear. It's purely clear. Also, if you have like five different radios and you put them on different frequencies, you will have different wavelengths appearing different thoughts. It's like, you know, one life essence has different computers. So it sees different things. It hears different things. But as Terry says, conditioned is the word I was trying to remember. Yeah. The important thing is conditioning that leads to the thoughts. Yes. But that, yeah, that awareness that's shining out of you right now, if you actually look at it, that awareness is not conditioned.

True. Can't be. Is it? It's not conditioned. It's like the seeing. It's like the seeing. Yeah. It's not conditioned. No. The hearing is not conditioned. It's a good point. Okay, Bob, say it. And that sense of presence or that awareness is prior to the me. That's a big issue. It's prior, yes. Yeah, it does say something. It's a big issue, it is the me. It's prior to the me. Right. Bob has something to say. Well, can anybody tell me what awareness is? Yeah. You can't describe it. That's why I say you're not unaware, are you? So you know you're not unaware, so you must be aware.

So you don't have to put a label or a condom. So you know, that's what we do. We put the label on awareness. And we're searching for a thing called awareness, some conceptual image. But the basic fact is there's no one in this room who is unaware. So if you're not unaware, what must you be? You must be its opposite. You must be that awareness. So you are already that without putting any label on it. So to describe it, you put the label on it, the word. But you know it's not something you're going to grasp or go and say, oh, it's not something you're going to grasp or go and tell you.

Just recognize that nobody is unaware. Isn't that a fact? And nobody can deny their own being. Like everybody, nobody can say I am not. Like the awareness of existence, awareness of being, which is the, in Hindu they call it satchitananda, being, knowing, and bliss, or being, knowing, loving to be. So everybody has that being. Everybody has the awareness of being. And this is it. What the tradition says that this is the truth and everything else is not. Like they call it five factors. You want to say a word on it? The other two are nama and rupa, name and form. Name and form are Maya, illusion.

And the existence consciousness and bliss or the awareness of being is the bliss. The nama and rupa, the name and form, that's what we've done. We've learned words. We've put words, labels, and put the names and forms. I am this person. I am this body. That's the name and form. That's the Maya. They don't exist. So awareness of being is a reality and the manifested world is illusion, is Maya. And everyone is aware of the being. And like Terry was pointing, he knows that he is. And everyone else knows that we are. So we are not unaware. And this is it. This is all there is to it.

But on top of it, there is idea that yes, but I am a separate, inferior, confined. Now as a life space totality, I confine myself to the tiny little shape of the body. Of course it's tight. Of course it's uncomfortable. Like the water, how you can try and squash it. And of course the senses, yes, they make it real. Like, you know, emotions. Yes, sure. They create the vibrations that if I take them as personal, oh, this is it. Oh, this is so mine. No, the vibrations, the emotions, they're as impersonal as everything else, as the sounds. The emotion comes, let's say, yesterday I'm riding a bike and the truck almost parked on me.

The fear, the vibration of fear, oh, came up. But it wasn't mine. It was just response of the body. Cats have responses like this too. They're physical. But they do have them. They are not personal. But this is what the body mind says, the machine. But I'm still the life that is running the body and expressing us thoughts, feelings, emotions and everything else. Just as if you have different radios. Like I was bringing up the example because I think it's not even a radio. Like, you know, you have different devices and the same electricity is making those devices alive. Like the electricity is fueling computer, the different sources.

The computer, the different screens on the computer, different thoughts, different mechanisms. There is a radio, television. They tune to different channels. But they are all worth nothing if you cut off the power, if you cut off the electricity. So they all actually, the means through which the electricity, the power can express itself. So the body mind mechanism is only the means through which life can express itself. How can life look if it doesn't have an eye? So I, life, the space, have given myself eyes. So now I can see forms. Maya, illusion, nice. So now I, life, have given myself the body that can feel emotions, that can experience thoughts.

Cool. Now the game started. Before, I just am. And there is nothing to it. I can't even be aware of my being because I am. Just like in a deep sleep in a dream. I don't even know that I am. There is a way. There is awareness. There is nothing else. So we all, every one of us, none can deny the sense of presence, the awareness of being. And this is it. What I am is a concept. I am the body, concept. I am the mind, concept. I am the ego, concept. They are all just stories that we put on top of that sense of presence.

And when the concepts or stories are recognized as the dream, what prevails and what stands out is the sense of presence, that awareness of being. And it stands out so wide that it becomes blissful. And that's what so-called Bob has 42 years over since he met Nisargadatta and he saw through the illusion of the whole appearance. The awareness of being now, this is the reality. Everything else is beautiful, is to be loved, is to be appreciated, is to be acted out. The body will do its thing. But it's secondary because it is Maya. So awareness of being is reality. All the rest is Maya. He can see the Maya.

He can love the Maya. He can appreciate the Maya. But awareness of being is the main thing. The stillness of being is the main thing. And three months ago he had hip operation. He's been in a hospital. And he's been, since then, a lot of different painful stories were coming up. And he was happy. On the bottom, under the bottom, underneath the pain that, of course, when he was moved, there was a scream going on. The body didn't, you know, there is an instinct. As you said, there is an instinct in kind of, it's programmed in this biocomputer. Survival mechanism. Totally. And wonderful. Yeah, how cool.

But when this was threatened in any way, he was just lying down in hospital, completely immobile, completely reliant on the food they give him, completely in silence. With the light and the smile in his eyes. Totally happy. Totally content. Just like the cat lying in the sun. When the sun ray comes up and they're relaxing, they're happy to be. So nobody can deny the being. This was nice. Maybe you should say, Terry, about that. I love the way you actually explain how the identification with the presence is the last one to go. Because the presence never goes. And you have such a beautiful way to say that.

I'm trying to remember it now. When you were saying that you're seeing thoughts, but who is seeing thoughts? There was still a me. And then the next step. Yeah. So I've got to see and understand what was being said here. I saw it. I saw and somehow I intuitively knew that what was being said here was the presence. And I saw it. I saw it. I saw it. I saw it. I saw it. I saw it. I saw it. I saw it. And I saw it. I saw it. And I saw it. It was actually the truth. It was actually correct. Zip. There's no more questions.

I wasn't interested in hearing anybody say anything anymore. Mm-hmm. Because I knew. I heard it before. Yeah, yeah. I know. Yeah. So there was kind of like. I don't know. Well, there was just kind of like nowhere to go. I don't know. I just found a place that there was just nowhere to go anymore. Um, and so I, I looked at my phone. I was so sad. I was so sad. I was so worried. And yet, and I could see quite clearly that this, my idea of myself or the idea of the me, I could see really clearly, was based on nothing but thoughts. You could see that, you know.

Having seen all that, I still felt like I was stuck. I still felt like I was here. I still felt like there was a sense, like there was this personal sense, not even a personal sense, but a sense of me-ness here. And I knew that that had to go. I knew that that had to go. And I didn't know, and I knew there was nothing I could do to make it go. I knew that, you know. Yet, here it is. And then. The last little, the last little piece for me, the realisation that I had, and the last piece of the puzzle, let's say that, that I saw, was that there was still, there was still an identity here.

Even regardless of how much I saw, there was still a sense of or an idea of a me here. And that last little bit. That last little bit of me-ness that was there, what I didn't realise was that what it also does, and what it's always done, by the way, I just didn't realise it, what it's always done, is it claims ownership of that sense of presence. I'm that too. I'm this, and I'm the sense of presence. Another way of putting that is I'm the body, if you like. Yeah? Because presence is experienced here. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Take that body away. Presence is gone.

Conniving. Yeah. Yeah. And I, and I saw, I just, oh. Oh. And, and, fucking hell. Oh. And, and it was the last little bit that this false identity was hanging on to. And then I saw. And then I saw why we're so fucking confused. And why this can take, for some, so fucking long to realise or, or, or to awaken to. Because that me, even if you haven't been exposed to this, it's always identifying with its, with the sense of presence. Yeah. Always is. It's how that sense of presence is expressed through the mind, as you thought I had. Yeah. Oh yeah. Yeah. And what you said earlier.

Yeah. About the single, about the singularity. Yeah. Singularity is a beautiful quote in the Buddhist texts. Let it rest in its uncontrived singularity without adding anything to it. The closest we can get to that verbally is I. Nothing get, when, even when you say that yourself, nothing gets attached to it at all, does it? If you really check it out. And the other thing too is, that's, that's what I was trying to point to before, Bob. When you say, and you can test it for yourself, when you, look, when you say, you know, my car, my body, my mind, my thoughts, my feelings and so on and so forth, that's kind of a given.

Mm. And, and we're pretty comfortable with that. Yeah. Pretty comfortable with that. Except, and I don't know, just try it, when we say, my I. I don't know about you, but the I kind of goes. Uh-uh. You ain't fucking claiming ownership of I. It's, and it's natural. You kind of, I don't know. There's just, uh-uh. Do you know what I mean? Yeah, I feel that. Right. Okay. So if you really feel that and see that, what fucking reality does this so-called entity have that's saying, my I? Really? It kind of blows it all out the water and what, what are you left with? I. Mm.

You're just left with that singularity. And some people will get that and some people won't. Mm. And you'll get it when, when you get it. You know what I mean? Yeah, they just see it as your blinding maybe. Yeah. If you throw it out there. That's all. They grow on their own time. Yeah, yeah. I see how it gets rid of all that other stuff. Um, fortunately for me, I tend to have, like when Kat said before, you have a single thing and space around it. I tend to, yeah, still separate it out. But then when, you know, the I am that, I've always just had to leave I alone and am and just go back to being the I.

Mm. And then am and just go with that. Mm. Isn't this, I like Jeff Foster for that reason. Mm. It's pretty much is, is, is. But yeah, it's just different. But yeah, I can see how for me, the rest of that blows things away. Mm. The my part. I. So that, that my me that was identified with this sense of presence, and I didn't know it was. Mm. I didn't know it was. You know. But what I knew is I went so far with this, like, I didn't know it was. Mm. I didn't know it was. Mm. I didn't know it was. Mm. I didn't know it was.

Mm. I didn't know it was. Mm. I didn't know it was. Mm. I didn't know. Mm. I didn't know it was. Mm. I just didn't understand it I think. Mm. But after I went so far, intellectually, let's say, I went as far as I could possibly go with it. And then. . I don't know. I don't get it. I don't get it. I can't. I'm, I'm not experiencing it. I'm not experiencing. Mm. This sense of freedom from self. I'm not experiencing it. I'm still, I, well, I still feel uncomfortable. I, I still feel like I'm stuck in a body, you know? And even though, my inner self, my inner self can't pull me away from the past.

Yeah. That's right. That's right. feel like I'm stuck in a body you know and it feels things and does things and there's still me there that was judging that you know and and that when I saw that I don't know how to put that into words but when and it just dawned on me it just got angry I fucking I remember fucking I was sitting there I mean fuck you know like what now like I was kind of thrown at a prayer almost you know what the fuck now you know I know and yet I can still feel like I'm here not when I heard myself say that like I still feel like I'm here and it just fucking dawn only were us would I expect to find myself but he hit up you know and I I saw that little link, that last little grabbing, that that illusory self was hanging onto and claiming ownership of that sense of presence, like it claimed ownership of a phone, my phone.

Or it's my sense of presence, or it's my body, or my whatever. But what popped up in me today, and I said, oh, I gotta share this, was what I was talking about in relation to the eye. My eye, it doesn't wash. If you say it yourself, and just get really honest with yourself, and just see what happens with that, it doesn't wash. There's something in that singularity, if you like, that goes, uh-uh. You ain't claiming ownership of me. Singularity recognises the disgenuous nature of the statement. Yeah. Intuitively, you know it. You just know. And it's not only intellectual understanding, it just goes, there's just a uh.

You're not fucking claiming ownership of that. Probably eye is so programmed to be the only thing that does ownership, the owning, the only thing that does ownership is really weird. It's too big a hurdle to own, you know? My inquiry used to be who is, or what is the eye? But the mind would just stop. I would see the, like you have who am I question. I would say what is the eye. Yeah, beautiful. I wouldn't even look what the questioner is, because that will just stop it. It does, it has to, it has to, cause there's no duality, there's no split in the, even in the word or the sense of eye, there's no split in it.

It's not until we go, I am Terry. I am depressed. I am this. I am that. comfortable in the world I'm not comfortable in the world I know what I'm doing I fucking don't know what I'm doing so when we add on to that I all yeah that's where the identification begins adding on to that to get back to that that that singularity that just that I what's still a word but there's no split in it it's as close as you can get but as I said before it's as close as you can get verbally yeah but it's also a process where you're encouraged to sit with the I am which means sit with the presence sit with your beingness you can't say I'm not I am I am aware so just sit in that sense of presence see what tunes in with your radio other people's pointers may be completely off and something comes out through your own you transmit the receiver and that will be a total the best teacher yeah you are that's why this is an invitation here because it's not a matter of taking what anybody in here says it's gospel it's you're encouraged to have a look for yourself and know thyself know yours know yourself and you can only do that one so everything that happens here is just a pointer you have a look don't take what I say and you have a look so really you're the only teacher don't you yeah yeah yeah there is only one there is only no one yeah there's no one else there's only one yeah you're dreaming all of us you're dreaming um awakened beings in your dream and this is all dream it's only one yeah it's really not thinking about it can't get away do you receive the world I certainly did mmhmm That's what it does.

We think the world is happening to us. And somehow I've got to try and navigate my way around and through the world. I often use the expression in here, it's actually a 180. The world is as a result of you. It's not the other way around. It's not the other way around. As a result of my perceptions, that was it. You being there. I was being there? You being there. The world isn't happening to you. You're creating the world. It's a 180. Including your body. Yes. That's part of the objects on the screen. That's part of the movie. Your body-mind is also appearance in the space that you are.

That awareness that you experience. You're looking at me now. You're aware. That I'm here and there's space between us and there's a room. That awareness that you're experiencing right now. Right now. I'm creating. When the sun's up in the sky and it's shining and the light's shining down on you, what's the cause of the light? The fraction of, I don't know. Where's it coming from? The sun. Really? If it's a 180. If it's a 180, where's the light coming from? From my eyes. From you. Yes. From you. Yes. From that awareness. From that. And it's the only thing. That's why I'm trying to get you to hone in on just your awareness right now.

Not what you're thinking about what I'm saying. Just your awareness. Okay? Is that awareness in your actual experience? Is it? Is it contained within this manifestation? Is it contained within this? Look at me. Look at me. Can you see my awareness? Hello? Can you see my awareness? I'm not sure I have to think about it. Can you touch it? Can you grab it? Yeah. Can you see it? Can you grab it? Is it a thing? Can you see my awareness? Can you see anyone's awareness for that matter? No. You keep saying you can see my awareness. You can't even see electricity that is alighting the bulb.

Okay. Are you aware of your own awareness? Good question. Are you not aware? Better question. Are you unaware? Probably. Are you unaware? Come on. Of what? Of my own? Are you unconscious? I don't sleep. Are you dead? Hello? Are you here? Is there a beingness there? Yes, yes, yes. Are you aware? Fucking hallelujah. Okay. That's it. That awareness that's there, is it out here in this manifestation? It's not a trick question. It's a straight, straight-arsed question. Is it? Can you see it out there? That's interesting. Don't you think that's interesting? Yes. Mm. I think that's interesting. When you look down at your body. Okay. Yeah.

Put your head down and look down at your body. Mm-hm. Yeah. All you could possibly say is that there's an arm sticking out that side of awareness, and an arm sticking out that side of awareness, and right here, where the head's supposed to be, there's just space and awareness. Is that your direct experience? Yeah? Mm-hm. You're not aware that you've got a head. When you're aware of awareness, when you're aware of your own awareness, you're aware of your own awareness. When you're really aware, you can think you've got a head. You can totally think you've got a head. See, I can see you've got a head.

Can't see your awareness. You can see I've got a head. You can't be aware of this awareness here, because it's happening here. Yeah. Okay? Yeah. But that awareness is not a thing that's in the manifestation as such. Is it? Come on. That's fucking huge to realize that. Yeah. It's huge to realize that. So that's like ... That awareness is like a window. Can you see that? That it's like a window? Yeah, Bob on the speaker, I think. Well, there's awareness of the manifestation, isn't there? Say it, Bob. That's it? Yeah. Aw. Yeah, you can also call it aliveness or sentience, because it may be easier to sense that.

You can sense the sentience, but you can't sense the awareness. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That knocks all of the sentience in your body, but you can't do it, out of it. Yeah. Good point. Yeah. Good point. Okay. We're over time now, I guess. Why are we all going through all of this? How would we just create as one? Because you wouldn't be aware. That's okay. That's you trying to say, but why are we manifesting as different beings and dresses and vest? Why not? Yes. He had the best answer.

Just say it again, Robin. Why? I just said we're not, but I can't remember what you said. That's it. The best answer. Why not? Why not? Why not? It's a magnificent game. It's a beautiful play. It's exquisite. It's spectacular. That's the point. That's the point. How could it know itself? How could that singularity know itself if it's just I? And only I. How could it know itself if it didn't split off? If it didn't manifest? How could it know itself? You're asking why? Like really? You're like a dead sinner. But why is it that there's billions of us with these different perceptions and yet we're supposed to be all one awareness really?

There's one perception experiencing itself as billions. One perception. She's a genius. She's a genius. I'm intrigued by my double questions. No, they're great questions. They're great questions. No, no, no. It's a wonderful perception that is experiencing awareness. Different awareness. Or what? Let's just say there's one perception. This is a pointer. Okay? It's not dead accurate, but it's close enough. Let's just say that there's one perception experiencing itself as everything. All human beings, all crickets, all ants, all trees. All planets, all everything. That one source. Think why would you want to answer and how happy would you be and how happy would you be, satisfied would you be if you know why?

It would be an intellectual story. What is the point? Oh, the point is this and that and the other. The mystery is killed to start with. It becomes flat and meaningless. And then you can have judgement about it. And instead you have this magnificent, exquisite appearance on which you have no idea why it exists because you forgot why you created it. But when you remember, you'll feel all that bliss of being and the love of being and you will know. You forgot why you created it. That's the point. You did this. You did this. You did this. You created all this. All your fault. It's all your fault.

Me, when I say that, at all. To my eye. That I am that I am. Thanks for the support. Thanks a lot. Yeah, the internet is playing out. I guess it's time to stop it. He gives me clues. Thank you everyone for watching. Kind clues. Safe face. I can save my face. Bye. You look like a little dude. If it works, it's okay. Why don't you charge? It's very sweet. Okay, I'm going to stop it now because the internet is playing out anyway. Oh, that's good. Goodbye. Yeah, we've got quite a few people watching right now and throughout the movie so you are going to be famous.

Thank you everyone. Thanks guys.