Sailor Bob Adamson - non duality - Tuesday 23 Aug 2018

Okay. Names? We all know what it's all about. I've only got one problem, I breathe. You know what it's all about, what they call non-duality. That's just a label they put on it. People take non-duality to be some newfangled, new-found, new-found thing. They don't know what it is. They don't know what it is. It's a newfangled idea or something that's hard to get. But isn't it simple? Non-duality just means not two, or one without a second, as they put it, or only that. That is all there is. And pointing directly to the one essence appearing, patterning, shaping, forming and expressing as everything. Even though it seems the many, it's still that singularity.

Appearing as the many. And what's gone on in the so-called humanhood is they've taken on the idea that there is a personal self. My self. But who is the me that's got this self? And that's what we're working on. We believe it's a personal self. And we've been constantly working on this, those that have looked into this stuff and looking at that personal self, which we call the self-centre, the reference point, or the ego. And that's what we're looking for. They're just names we put on it. And everybody's looking for this, to be rid of this personal self, to become the self. Not realising everything already is that self.

So the my self they're pointing to is not the personal self. It's it's I am the self. It's only the one self. They call it self-aware, self-shining, self-discovery. Self-knowing, self-loving, whatever. It's only the one essence that's patterning into all these different shapes and forms and expressing through them. There's an ancient text, I can't even think of it. It's an emptiness that's forming into all these patterns, shapes and forms. The manifestation. The Buddha's told us, a few years ago, that it's a cognising emptiness. The emptiness is not just an inert, static, doing nothing. It's an emptiness suffused with an innate intelligence, or a knowing. That's just a label.

There is no such thing as intelligence energy, if you like to put it that way, also. They're labels we put on things to try and discriminate. So it's a self-knowing awareness. Watching the right and left, or watching the right and left coming or coming, focusing on one. That's self-awareness. Yes, the self consciousnessondo acting. Emptiness is a form. It's that emptiness? Emptiness, or awareness, that's forming all this manifestation. And it's forming you, me and everything else. We've got these ideas we are something, because we've turned around that away and said the form can be nothing other than the emptiness. You've heard that many times, like you're aware of the other things, you've all looked into it and really seen that.

That's emptiness is form. nothing other than the emptiness. And when it's sat-shet-ananda, being, knowing, loving to be, or existence, consciousness, then nama-rupa, the name and form are that stillness, or awareness, or emptiness, or space-like awareness. This label's gone on to everything. And we've lost in the label, get lost in the words. In the beginning was the word. Before you had any words, before there were any words, look out there in nature. What's nature doing about it? Is it spinning this earth around? Got words and labels, I'm making it daylight today or night, or this is winter, or it'll be summer. This is good, that's bad.

Nature putting any words on anything. It's just functioning. It's functioning as it is, just as it is, unaltered, unmodified, uncorrected. No preference. No partiality. No comparison. You can't fix on it anywhere, with a word, with a label. So it just goes on by itself. And if you have a look into your life, when you start to really look into it, and believe you've done it yourself. Captioning by www.captionsonpower.com all these things, taken on the blame, the praise, the love, the hate, and all these different concepts were taken on. We were related to this personal self or the self-centre. No wonder we get all stuffed up in the head, full of fear, anxiety, depression, guilt, shame, remorse, unhappiness.

All these conceptual images that come up, that's all they are. Conceptual images, labels, we put on the sensation or the patterning, the shaping and forming, making it seemingly real and solid and substantial. And we get lost in the word. So when we say simple things, what's wrong with right now if you don't think about it? Well have a look at that. What can you say is good or bad, pleasant or painful, happy, sad, loving or hurting without the word? When you were a little child, before you had any words, you don't even remember that now. But before you had any words, how did you get on?

But you see it through another little baby, when you haven't got any words. They're just functioning along as it is. They're not having trouble with life. Something comes up, they'll cry or be unhappy or throw a tantrum or something like that. Another time they'll gurgle. If they're hungry, they'll yell. But if they put any words on, I'm hungry, or this is a tantrum, this is anger, this is fear, or I don't like this, I don't like that, they're not because they haven't got the words to describe it. We know that in our language. We say the description can never be the described. We're talking about Krishnamurti here, some of you were.

That was one of his sayings, the description cannot be described. The map cannot be the territory. And that's what we're talking about. And you have to be a Rhodes Scholar to work that out. Or just to recognise it. What I'm describing now is not a description. And it won't ever be a description. But it's a pointer. It can point you towards what to look for. Now, if it's all Nama Rupa, name and form, realise that everybody in this room is that Nama Rupa, name and a form. You put a label on yourself. And you've got the whole world. And you've got the form. The form is that you believe yourself are this human being.

A beingness which we put the label on human. And we've taken on the idea through this belief in the separate entity that we're not good enough. We've got to become something because being is not good enough. But when you look at that again, what do you call this so-called God that you've come to believe in? From your religions around you, your parents, your friends, your schools, your society, nation, have all put these concepts into your head. What do you call this God? A higher power or a greater power? Or a supreme being? A greater being than every other being. But can there be that? If it's just being, how many beings are there without the label?

And that's when you'll understand what they say. It's the one being patterning, shaping, forming and expressing as everything. And it's going to be a very important thing. And it's going to be a very important thing to understand. And it goes on to say, you are that. What you call you, I or me, or the chair, the table or anything else is only that. Turn that around the other way and you know it. Because don't you say, that's the chair, that's the label, that's Tony, that's Andrew, that's me, that's you, that's the carpet, that's the chair. You realise it's all ready, all that. Which is the sun.

Without any name or form on it. It's only that. But we're discriminated with the name and form and locked into the name and form. And we got into all this conceptualising. All this thinking. And Shakespeare told you nothing either good or bad, but thinking makes us. It's not going to tell you nothing in trouble except your own imagination. Thinking is another level for imaging. It's a level for imaging in or imagining. Or conceptualising. All different levels for this thinking process. Now have a look at the thinking. And what do you say? Oh, I'm thinking. Well what's your next thought going to be? What are you going to think next?

What have you thought in the past? So many words have come up. We've claimed them as I thought. That's how I work this in. But when you recognise and look at it and see that thinking itself is a very spontaneous happening. It's a spontaneous movement. In that pattern you call the body. It couldn't be there without the life essence. You must realise that there is no think if you can't tell me what your next thought is going to be. When you've got the concept I think. And we believe ourselves. I'm thinking this thought. I'm thinking that thought. But if you can't choose your thought, you don't know what your next thought is going to be.

Who is the thinker? Is there such a thing as a thinker? And you realise when you put that word I think on, who are you relating to? You're relating to this personal me. This ego. Me, Bob, the Australian. I think. I see. I hear. I feel. I taste. I touch. I smell. So I formed a subject when I related to the conceptual image. A subject, if there's a subject there, there must be an object. And isn't that dualistic? It's more than one if subject, object. So the reasoning, the thinking is all dualistic. The seeing is dualistic. The tasting is dualistic. It's a good taste, that's a bad taste.

Pleasure, pain, happy, sad. The functioning dualist thinking is dualism. And they consistently point out, keep looking into those scriptures, consistently point out it's non-dual. There never was any duality. It is absolutely this one dualism that's the essence of this one essence. It's patterning, shaping, forming, appearing and expressing as everything. And the patterning, shaping and forming, the way it's expressing, is what they call nama rupa, or name and form, which they tell you is maya. Another word for maya is illusion. A dream is an illusion. The water in a mirage is illusion. The seeming of the sea is illusion. The blue sky is an illusion. The echo is an illusion.

They're all metaphors. Four of this pointing out how illusory it all is. So this name and form you put upon itself, it is an illusion. It's not real. And if that's not real, where does it leave you? Have you stopped seeing? Has seeing stopped? Has hearing stopped? Has taste stopped? Has touching, touching, smelling stopped? Has thinking stopped? None of those things have ceased. But what is it being related to? You're still relating to this name and form, this pattern, this ego, which is illusion also. It's maya. It's illusion. There is no such thing as an ego. So as we say, my self. You put it down to that egoic self, that me.

And then you'll say, I see there's no me. But the me came back again. How can something that is not existent, that never was, how can it come back? What reality has it got? Now we lived in that belief in it before and it's believed to be so and taken to be so with the belief reinforced by our parents, our schools and everybody else around it. So much so that we didn't bother to inquire into it. We just took it for granted. I'm Bob, the Australian, I'm a good fella, not so good. And all the everything else that they put upon me that went about it.

And I can choose my thoughts. I've got self-will. I can do all these things. And I can think positively. These are all the crap I'm told that I believe in. Now what stops you from believing in that? Hasn't there been an innate knowing, an innate in one of you, that's caused you to look a little bit beyond the word, the thinking? To go into something else where you've resonated with or recognised something there that's a bit greater than this conceptual image that's got you into all this trouble. Because when you're going along with it and the recognition or insights of something, there's a certain clarity and a certain ease of being comes about with it.

Being at ease or the ease of being. That's what the screen, the stillness, the silence, the emptiness is. That's being at ease, not an uneasiness. And they tell you that in different passages and different texts too. Let it rest in its uncontrived singularity. You think you're going to separate it from the singularity. We've been trying to do that for years in the belief we've taken on ourselves. And I think we've got away with it. But how many of you are free and are living in that being with itself? Not yourself or myself. Self liberation. Not that I'm going to liberate or the personal self, but that self is liberation itself.

That's what we're seeking for. Self realisation, self liberation, self awareness, self knowingness. While ever we're doing it, we're not going to be free. We're going to be free. We're going to be free. To the personal self, it'll never happen. It can't happen because the person is not reality. The person is not the thing. There is no such thing as a person. It is non-conceptual. The great perfection is non-conceptual awareness. That's the great perfection. What can you add to perfection? The least little thing you could add to it wouldn't be perfect, would it? you take away from perfection, the least little thing you can take away from it wouldn't be perfect.

But they're telling us the great perfection right here, right now, it is the absolute. The same thing applies to absolute, totality, nothing can be added to it, nothing taken away. Going back to that I am that, if that is what I am, you must be that absolute. When they say give up the search, people struggle trying to give up the search. Like the thinker trying to give up the thinking, or the seeing is trying to give up the seeing. These things are going to continue to happen. But what are you going to relate them to if you know there's no self-centred? What can you do with it?

Can't you do with what we said about before, leave it as it is? Just as it is right here, right now, unaltered, unmodified, uncorrected. And have a look at that. What can you alter anything with apart from that? What can you alter anything with apart from a concept or a thought? What can you modify anything with? What can you correct anything with? Not leaving it as it is anymore when you're trying to work it out in the mind. And don't you realise that? That the answer is not in the mind. You're all intelligent people in this room. Probably far more intelligent than I am. Why haven't you worked it out?

Might I just do it on you? Or maybe I've been looking in the wrong direction. You've heard that many times here, and it's probably taken you further away from it, in the recognition. And that's all that happens, there's a need to recognise it. That the answer is not in the mind. You can never ever get peace of mind. And that's what we think we're going to get when we stop thinking, we're going to get peace of mind. But they tell you, again, that the peace is prior to the mind. Peace is when the mind is not. Peace is when the mind is not. And when you go to sleep at night, how many thoughts are going on then?

But to try and describe it next day, you'll say I slept well. How would you know? If you had interrupted sleep, you'll certainly know about that. But you come back into the mind. When you slept well, there was no mind, the mind was in the bones. It was still there. Well, not what we call the mind, because there's no such thing. But the thinking process was vibrating into different doors. And that's another thing, peace is when the mind is not. As they say, you'll never get the peace of mind. So why are you going to search for it? Why are you going to search for it?

Why are you going to search for it? Why don't you start searching for where it is not, where the peace is, if it's not in the mind? Get out of the mind. Because you think you're going to grasp it with some concept. And the saga doesn't tell you that. The first few pages he read, we try to grasp it with a concept. And we fail. It tells you that clearly and loudly. We try to grasp it with a concept and we fail. And he says you're bound to fail. You can't do anything other than fail. So if you're still having problems with it, you're bound to fail.

But if you're trying to work it out because you've forgotten, in recognizing and understanding, see what brought it about. There must have been some conceptualizing going on or thinking or reasoning or trying to work it out. Come back, not a matter of coming back, but recognize that and drop the thoughts. Because if the peace is where the mind is not, what must it, where must it be? If the mind is thought and there is nothing other than thinking going on and the peace is when the mind is not when you're mind is an abeyance, the peace is there, it must be prior to thought. It must be beyond the mind.

And that's another thing I tell you, you've got to go beyond the mind and think, try like, oh, to cut this one out and go that one, or go beyond. But if you pause the thought, have you disappeared? There's no thought going on. Have you paused the thought? If you pause the thought, there's no thought going on. Have you disappeared without the thought? Have you stopped breathing? Has your heart stopped beating? Have your ear and fingernails stopped growing? Has your food stopped being digested? Have the cells stopped being replaced in your body? All that's going on without thought, like it went on for a year, a couple of years, when you had no thoughts or words.

But it went on before you had a brain, when you were getting formed in the mind. So you start to recognise there is. It's not something that's impossible to get hold of prior to thought. It's simply there now if you pause the thought. So you start to recognise that and do what they say. Abide as that. Abide in it. Let it rest in its uncontrived singularity. Don't move away from it. Well, that's my little concept for today, talk. I tell you, I'm going to go looking into the self-centre if you want to see that, but you've all heard it before. So take it from me, you can kick it off again.

Okay, I'd like that, just to add a word, because you've explained it the other day about the peace that passeth all understanding. So basically the understanding, that we're trying to understand peace conceptually or in the mind. When they say peace that passeth all understanding, it means it's totally un-understandable by the mind. It can't be understood. So if this one pointer, it was Jesus I think who said it. If this one pointer is understood, it means it's totally un-understandable by the mind. It can't be understood. So if this one piece that we're looking for cannot be grasped or understood by the mind because it passeth all understanding, trying to understand it makes no sense.

So if that one thing is acknowledged or is taken on board, then it's... That's it. The peace, like, well, also Christ said that God comes to the quiet mind. So the peace cannot be looked for in the head. And the state of waiting, of receptivity, of just being available for that peace to emerge, well, even that is so-called grace because even that is just the way it appears. But that could actually end the search if that one pointer is understood. Whether it does or it doesn't. You also were saying it has a couple of levels, so I don't have much access to that, but I think the first level is...

I've never really tried to put this out in the head, so it is left in that way. But then when it comes to the don't touch it or leave it in terms of the things that just keep triggering in all the time, like for me the level ownership are in not trying to understand non-duality, but they're in, oh, I did that crack, or oh, that's going to be a disaster, oh, that's going to be uncomfortable. Well, these level ownership's just popping in 24-7, 24-69 or whatever. And so the don't touch it when it has come up as a pointer, it's been where just the beginning of the tripwire starting to happen has maybe become expanded and noticeable.

And then it just starts to come in, even just the notion of what's going to come in flashes in and out and recedes. And it doesn't get touched. But as a little package, the don't touch it pointer itself hasn't come up very often, but that's kind of the way in which it shows up. So you recognise that? Yeah. You recognise those little gaps when it's coming up? Yeah. And that's what we call little insights coming up. And the recognition, you go back to that more and more, and that gives them more chance to arise. Grace aspect that Kat just mentioned. Yeah. And the millions of other pointers have sort of done a similar thing, but yeah, that one has been a few times.

Yeah. Yeah, that one could be the final also. I mean... You never know. Yeah, it might be the one that does a kind of abiding, but then like you say, grace, abiding is grace, if you're very triggered like that. Well, grace is again, it's the wrong word, but it only means that it doesn't come from the individual. It turns up as and when it turns up. Yes. So the individual cannot decide to be received. Yeah. And decides to be receptive or open or quiet or touch or not touch because individual has no power. And that's perhaps for me, if they're not trying to work out in here, that's already given for here.

Like that's the question. Yes. But then the bloody stuff just... All those little ownership things that are pinching it, you know, how useless this particular pattern is. Yeah. It's turning up all the time. Yeah, but Grace, I remember Bob was answering a question to someone who was asking, it is a wrong word because every word is wrong. Every word, there is no right word for this stuff. But Grace would be the question, who's Grace and for who? So it isn't really even the type of a dawning or grace or something that comes upon you because there is no you and it doesn't come from elsewhere because there isn't elsewhere.

This is just all, it's just all one. But in absence of any better words, we use this one because it, at least it shifts the responsibility from the individual. It's not just the individual doer who thinks that has something to do. And for me, I guess I've been travelling, well like for example, like the lay uses it a lot and so my third, so for me, Grace has just becomes the fact that there's no you doing it. Yeah. And that's just how Grace always is used for me. So it's quite a useful empty word in that way. Yeah. It's not coming from anywhere. Yeah. No, there's no nothing in our aspect of Grace.

It's just represents... Yeah, there's no God giving you anything. There's no you doing it. There's no God giving you anything. There's no God giving you anything. There's no God giving you anything. There's no God giving you anything. There's no God giving you anything. There's no God giving you anything. There's no Grace giving you anything. There's no Grace. There's no Grace. Yeah. There's no Grace. That's right. Yeah. All right. Are you gonna go next? I am going next. You want to give a stab? Yeah. Yeah. Tell us about it. I'll go the rounds. Give you that. I wanted to know that I've got much to contribute, really.

What's your favorite? What's the Pointer that works the most? Oh, I don't know. Really. I've sort of given up on Pointers a bit lately, actually. Can you tell us all about that? Yeah. Yeah. Well, I guess it's just that... sort of get to the point look I've heard most of the arguments before and I know most of the pointers so and I sort of realized that that next point is not the thing that's gonna do anything for you it's just it's just there anyway so the pointers really don't mean that much I guess anymore well it's sort of you really come to the point where external help is not going to help you yeah but it's only about seeing yourself and this is exactly what the question was which one of like the way when when when the shift happens when you kind of step back from the entangled entanglement or taking things personally what is it do you notice anything specific how it happens that that it just shifts back well it comes from within obviously yeah but it's like it's so you know it's like a kind of a thing that's going on in your life and you're like what's going on in your life and you're the mental image of me that gets in the way yeah if that's out of the way well it just happens naturally it's not anything you can seek or look for it's just there yeah so how does the mental image of you falls away did you notice any pattern of how it happens like I notice a lot of the time that doesn't seem to be working there anymore cool it comes up with us something that really pushes your heart it does but applied to something else what about the water and the mirage yeah we haven't got a metal image about that it's worrying about the image no of course not you've recognized there's no water in the mirror that's right yes well i can say i think that but i don't know that that's what happens in practice the old me still comes out you know hotel well it just comes out i guess well it must be to itself it sees itself in the thinking you say i think that everything well it just happens itself yeah so no i've seen that for a while but you don't do your thinking you just like you get locked into it but it just comes of its own accord so well who could log into it yeah well it's a good question i'll never have a look again yeah it can only be me yeah then you go back and have a look at this me yes see if we can find a mean yeah well when you look there isn't one right well why don't you know that instead of yeah i know it's your fighting thing again isn't it yeah i guess it's habit i guess a lot of it it's habit you just keep going back over the old ways that you've traced before you know but but you start to see that that's what's what to me it's a gradual yeah more horizons getting bigger like you'll see what's happening more the way it just happens well don't relate that to the way yeah yeah yeah well that's okay that's the problem in it because it's related back to uh the self-image the only way you do is by shutting up so but you're already in a place one could say that you know is is the space like awareness and the me appears and disappears in it or is the me having an experience of no no no no the the experiences there anyway you are the experiencing yeah i think so and the me is just showing up and going and falling away yeah yeah cool that's it yeah cool and then the meal is gonna show up or not but who cares if you were in space who cares let it be as everything else it doesn't matter you don't even need to get rid of it because it's not you it's like you know the flowers and birds also appear and disappear thoughts appear and disappear but what does it do to the space nothing yeah yeah well that's another thing i've been looking at as so it's all a matter of perspective it's if you look at everything from me to the rest of the world or you just look from the rest of the world yeah from what the sensing sees it's it's completely different yeah yeah you're kind of impersonal like camera on the computer or anything and even this body is just another thing in the room that's not yeah totally so that's the the difference that's impersonal seeing yes beauty yeah but but you know i go down into the old way all the time so but who goes back yeah i don't know it just seems to i mean it just it's just the thought just carries on for a little while but you don't really i mean that's what it must be yeah found here there's one planet one billion people we've got at the moment seven or something i think very acceptable plus yeah it's about seven billion people on the planet and there's one planet one and there'd be around about seven billion different opinions and concepts and ideas of that one planet so whose idea or whose concept of that one planet is correct is there one or is there seven billion and then you can apply that back to yourself whilst there's an identified entity here you know it goes well there's my thoughts and my speech my sound that comes out of my mouth and my feelings and my hearing my sight my awareness just divides it's just a it divides everything um and i started off with that analogy of you know seven billion people on the planet that's what the mass does the masses do and it's easy to see that if you if you it's easy to see that everyone's going to have a different concept or understanding or idea of that one planet and that's what the mass does and it's easy to see that if you if you it's easy to see that it's a different concept and yet we do exactly the same thing here when we're identified with that self divvy it up and divide it up i'm all sorts of things really got an ego and you know and then i could divvy the ego up and go yeah and within that i've got you know low self-esteem or high self-esteem desires and wants and preferences and you know and so on there's either one on this was fucking not.

If you look at that analogy that I first brought up in relation to 7 billion people on the planet, you can see the insanity that goes on. No, that's good, actually. Like, you can see that when you look at that objectively. When you look at that, you know, which one's right? You know, somebody, the person who really understands that one, will they please stand up out of that 7 billion? So it's just all concepts and ideas. And you can see that, you know. People can have all sorts of different ideas about how nature works and how the planet works and how God works, you know.

How did he create tsunamis and wipe out human beings? And, oh, it's just... It just goes on and on and on. But the reality, the absolute, the insanity, the absolute reality here, here, is there is just one. And it becomes two if I listen to that. Without that, there is just one. There is just one presence. There is just isness, if you like. Awareness, still, quiet. So quiet. So peaceful. As we take that... Divide the concept of me to be me. Just the description. Description. There is just one here. There is just one here. There's not two, there's not another one sitting there, not another one out there.

There is just one here. There is just one planet. One universe, if you like. Well, we've been here. Who knows. I believe in that word, the universe. Yeah. So, starting to feel like I'm a broken bloody record. But, to... What's he should say? 40 years old. My 40 years. Touche. Beautiful. It isn't something that you get if you're identified. It's not something you can get. When that self-identification moves, all these concepts about the world were wiped out. There wasn't any concepts going on. In the 7 billion people that were here, everybody would be viewing the world the same way. We'd just be one. We'd be totally one.

We get stuck in the mind and we, you know... There's nothing complicated about that. It's just thoughts. It really is. It's just thoughts. There's subtle levels of that me and how it operates. That identity. Subtle levels of it. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And it needs to be seen and seen and seen and seen. Yeah. With you talking about the 7 billion different views, I mean, you can go, well, what's the difference? Because the sensing's largely the same. What's the difference? It's got to be the thinking process that's different. We're going all, isn't it? Only. Yeah. That's my point. Yeah. Only that. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And that's the difference. And how seriously you're going to take your thinking, Yeah. when you actually see the bigger picture. Mm-hmm . That's the front end. Which will you think that, you know. , nothing to think about, but thinking much of that. Yeah. Well, when you're starting, Nothing in time too, except your own imagination. How reliable is your thinking? You know. Can you rely on it? No, you can't. And how you, Anyone can say that. How important. Yeah. Because it feels, certain things feel so important. In a hundred years' time, well, maybe 120 for now, you could just, yeah.

In 120 years time from now, maybe a little bit, maybe 130, but anyway, lots of a short period of time, in 130 or 140 years time, every single solitary human being that's currently on the planet is going to be in the fucking ground. How important is it really? Like seriously. And they'll be replaced by, probably by then, 8 billion new people that'll be walking around, manifesting and functioning. Probably 2 billion. You'll be wiped out by the heat. Conquerage and rats. We just take everything so fucking seriously. And 120 years ago, there might have been 5 billion people on the planet, I don't know what the figure is.

Do we give a shit about them? No. That's a lot of people. That's a lot of, we don't give a shit about it. I don't give it enough thought. I don't give it enough thought about you guys and the rest of the people on the planet. And in 120 years time in the future, there'll be people sitting in a room like this and this will come up again and we're nothing. I think we're going to much better give them a thought about the 7 billion now. It's autism for you. It's pretty handy. Well, I've been to two funerals in the last couple of years. I've been to two funerals in the last couple of weeks.

You go there and review the person's life and think fondly of them and that. But how quickly it all moves on. The world doesn't stop for a second. Everything just moves on. They come and they go. We all just come and we go. You just get a few guilty feelings. But I mean, it's quite amazing how quickly it all just dissolves and is how they never were. Look, the irony in what says it all the time. Are you aware right now? Can you say I am not? Sure, you can say I am not. There's got to be someone there to be saying I am not yet.

You are aware right now. Are you being right now? Are you existing right now? Are you seeing, hearing, tasting, touching right now? Yes. Yes. You know, you can't get any closer to this. This. This. This. This. This. This. This. This. This. This. This. This. This. This. This. This. This. This. This. This. This. This. This. This. This. This. This. Other than that. Other than that. Yes, I am. There is presence here. There is awareness here. So what blocks it? It's so obvious and so there and it's so present. And yet, we walk around thinking we haven't got it. Like thinking we haven't got it. That's just...

I know... Sorry. Sorry. And I know we're not. what it is, and I've discussed it before, that the self-identity identifies with this sense of presence. It identifies with this and claims it. This is mine. And it kind of becomes a bit ordinary in relation to that self-identity that's there. It just becomes a bit bland and a bit ordinary. And whilst we're going through this process, saying, yeah, yeah, I'm here, but that can't be it. Surely that's not it. Surely that's not it. That is it. But the difference is when the entity that's there is saying, surely that's not it, when that's absent and everything else is absent, it's fucking amazing.

It's amazing. Truly amazing. It just keeps manifesting spontaneously in the present all the fucking time. It's just brand new, brand new, brand new, brand new, brand new, fresh, fresh, fresh, fresh, fresh. It's incredible to know that and be aware of that. You've done well. Yeah, you've done pretty well. I suppose I have a footnote. The other night. Sorry. The other night when I said, oh, sorry, go do your footnote. Yeah, it was just a footnote. Dan? Yeah, I was going to say that. It's like, for me, like I used to have the, yeah, this can't possibly be it. I never really had that habit, but there's always that.

But now it's neither arises. Not I've got, not I haven't, it just doesn't arise. There's enough experience of both. But I'm still 24, 69, not abiding. So sometimes you don't have to go to, you know, that can all drop before the abiding turns up. You see me, yeah, it just triggers in, no hardships, but that particular one of even anything. So basically you're abiding all the time, but occasionally the idea comes about that I'm not abiding because we are talking about that aliveness. Oh, not abiding. Yeah, I suppose it's just a clumsy way. Because you are alive 24, 7. I don't hold anything strong in that not abiding.

It's just a clumsy way of trying to say that a lot of ownership thoughts, as clumsy as that still is to say, are still turning up. Yeah, you're right. There's not really a not abiding notion. Because you're alive all the time, regardless whether the attention goes into personal thoughts or attention goes elsewhere or it doesn't always still. Yeah, it's just. But yeah, I understand. There is just, there are just no good words. Yeah. Sorry, Mary. That's fine. What was I going to say? The other night when I sort of said I was walking with a dog, because I contemplated that I, you know, kind of said it wrong.

And I was walking with a dog and then, you know, everything disappeared. Yeah, there was no self or whatever. But really, all it was was just a thought that just came up, which isn't anything a person that just noticed what was always there. So. Yeah. Which would be quite ridiculous and very obvious. And then that's it. There's nothing more to say from that. It's just a thought. Yeah, and that was just, it just hit me. I think it was. Yeah. It was just today, you know, that it's, you know, yeah, there was no person there anyway. And it was all, because I think that I was sort of, it was like a person that had noticed it, but really it wasn't.

It was just a thought that noticed and the thought just came and gone. But it was always, always there. Yeah. But there's no one there. Well, there's just the absolute and that's that. What I've come to see is absolutely, forgive my wording, absolutely. You can know and absolutely you can understand without a single solitary thought. Oh, absolutely. Yeah. Like, it's, it's, it's, it's intuition or I don't know. There's a knowing, there's an understanding and it's got nothing to do with dualistic thought or that dualistic process that goes on. And it's really only about there's, there's a no, there's a no dualistic process. Can't actually say there's anything.

Beyond that, well, I can't see anything. All I know is there's not the dualistic process. That's it. I can't say there's some kind of screen or some awareness or anything like that. I've never noticed it. Yeah, they're all just pointers. Yeah. Yeah. Thinking is just a narrative. It's just a commentary going on. Yeah. So that was it. Yeah. So it's called stop, as Bob says. Nice. Yeah. Stop. There you are. You're on. Chris. Stop. Well, I think what I've been, the intelligence energy of evidence awareness. It shapes. I've struggled with the form. I think I'm coming here. I've come. There's more of an awareness that there can be an of the form.

There is no, you know, I'm just a cat getting run over. It's all being shaped by intelligence energy. There is only one. And so one can, like you were saying, amazing. You just have to just answer and say, say someone's getting bullied. Then you may know. And you can go and. You know, be, but that's happening. Intelligence energy. And there can be kind of the different forms and the shapes and the in the story, which intelligence energy is shaping itself into, as you, as you say, ever fresh. There can be a kind of instead of there's, there's a bit less of that more seeing I'm being formed by presence awareness.

So it must be, you know, so I think you, you don't have to. And what is important to add? Because. You said it all and you said it very well, but I've noticed the way, you know, like, because if you see animal cruelty or you see something that is yuck and your heart is just shrinking and you're getting, you know, your fists are clenching and the action is just boiling up to do something about it. And it's, and then idea comes, oh, I shouldn't be judging it. Why not? I mean, judgment is part of, yeah, it's part of the way. Yes. And the forms. And also you see, I, I actually see.

In myself often when I see something that is yuck and I feel the judgment coming up and with the judgment, I can even, I can even throw shit at the person who is doing that animal cruelty or something. But at the same time, I can't fool myself and I can't forget that that person is empty inside. There is nobody there is just dead mechanical conditioning, doing whatever it has been conditioned is the computer perpetuating its program is no. So. I can't be, you know, I, I will still defend the animal or I will still slap the fucking canton, whatever. But I can't, I can't hate them.

I can't be angry with them. I can't blame them. And I can't feel guilty about my actions. Where's the machine. I don't find it shocking, but the younger generation quite shocked when you use phrases like that. You had me at count. Oh, for me, this word, this is my second language. This. Words doesn't really mean anything ugly for me. It's just another word. It's not any uglier than you're fucking all the time. Yeah. And I'm a sailor. Sorry. I spent 17 years at sea. I'm justified. You have no idea what type of vocabulary or type of jokes I was listening to. Sure. Just as well.

The word, not the thing. Yeah. That's what another sailor says. Any holes of gold, Bob. You are evil. Did mine. Done, done yours. Yeah. I've done it. Not today. I did it before. No, today. What else is new? I just rambled off the newest thing. Oh, Melanie. Yeah, right. I've really got nothing. What could I possibly say? Andrew. Vegan recovery. Recover from that heart attack. Is it after 830? I hope so. With this foul language going on. I'm quite proud of Terry actually, because he's, he's the one guy who uses the F word more than me, which giving a round of applause for that. And the C word is the first time I've heard that used here.

So it's another first, another round of applause. That was some decorum, Andrew. No, look, seriously, Bob said something there at the beginning I think was brilliant. And he said it so quickly and he was mumbling a bit. So I think, oh, yeah, you know, no, but people are, you know, the people online will say, oh, you know, that Aussie accent, I can't understand it and all that. I understood it perfectly. I mean, for the people online, Bob used it. He said that young children, firstly, they haven't got a concept of themselves as a separate individual, but more importantly, they haven't got the words. They don't have the words or labels to label what they're doing.

They're taught that. So if a child throws a tantrum, he has no concept that he is throwing the tantrum. It's just a spontaneous, the act like you watch a young child, music comes on and the child will spontaneously start dancing after about three or four. They won't because of this, this what we call self-conscious then. All right. So before that. And the child. And the child. And the child. And the child has to do everything that the parents tell him to do, right? He has to have the same sense of being a child, but the parents haven't said, oh, stop being a drama queen, stop throwing a tantrum, or the parents haven't said, oh, stop being a drama queen, stop throwing a tantrum.

And it's ironic in the scriptures, Jesus was reported to have said only those like little children can enter the kingdom of heaven. Now, if you say the kingdom of heaven is a metaphorical statement for the self or the natural state, what he's basically saying. He's not saying. Those. are little children he's saying those are like little children so you've got to be free of those concepts and free of that idea of a separate entity like the child to return to your natural state which which you don't have to return to it you were born in that state you've learned to use the mind labels that's developed a seeming separate entity that's not really there anyway it's only there conceptually which leads to another eastern sloka where it says hold any preference for or against anything and heaven and hell are forever divided from hinting me what's the difference see jesus said one thing the hinting means there's another thing saying exactly the same thing slightly different words slightly different metaphors depending on what part of the world you're in you know monopoly on wisdom and like what did i say before the meeting i said something over the meeting was something came up the other day we're talking about you know all this shit about the catholic church and the children getting molested and i was thinking about the other that the other day and just spontaneously out of out of out of nowhere came the sloka do not impart or impose any standards on anybody that you yourself can't live up to that was the answer to my inquiry at my inquiry was you know these you know this abuse going on and the church preaching one thing and doing another thing and that was what the answer awareness answered it says what these people are basically doing are imposing laws and standards on people that they themselves neither live or believe in the church and the church is not a church and the church is not a church and it is a church and it is not what they want to see if they can benefit from that right we had a couple of various actions in our eigentlich thought that orders and they stand against the church so as much as i understand in their colleagues and me has to respect the priests you know at the end of their culture and also catches a possaра to believe in there are some other things on them only these we believe in and you wonder what there's so many problems like we're talking about it's like terry was saying about seven million people and seven billion people within opinion Put him in the deep fryer.

Be kind to him. Make him into a nice green curry. Fillet him up and deep fry him in a bit of light Japanese batter. You can get very uncomfortable when you look at yourself. You start to see all the people you've been to. What did we say the other night though? We said the other night, right? That's another scriptural saying from the Bible. Jesus said, wear the world like a light garment. You cannot take it seriously. The more serious you take it, you put yourself in a nut house if you try to take it all seriously and try to understand it. For example, politics. You see what's going on now in politics?

If you try to understand it or bought into that story or try and put it right, where are you going to end up? You're going to end up... The quicker it fades... And you wonder why they take up boozing and stuff. At the end of the day, you'd need half a bottle of whiskey to forget all that bullshit, wouldn't you? Yeah, but that's because they don't get it. They're not aware. Because they take it seriously and they did get it. Because they personally get it. That's what it is. Yeah. They're not aware or awake. If it's impersonal, then church does whatever it has been programmed and conditioned to do also mechanically and there's no entity responsible.

Oh, exactly. That's the point though, isn't it? That's the point. Yeah. You can either buy into the story or write or see it as a story. If you see it as a story, are you going to get upset about a story? No. When you read a novel, right? When you read a novel about the mafia or something, and they're killing people and they're importing drugs, you can buy into that story and really enjoy it. But you know it's a story. You don't go to bed, you don't look under the bed in case someone stashed a couple of keys of coke under the bed, do you?

You know it's just a story. You know the coppers aren't going to come hammering on the door because you're not involved. It's not a story. That's the difference. But if you read that book and then you took this as being true, right? And that's what happens to the people who say swallow the metaphorical fables in the Bible and that. And they take them as being, you know, a concrete reality. Then what do you do? You start to impose that on other people. You start to take that as, well, in the Bible it says this and you're doing the opposite to that. So, see, it's like Bob said, that's how wars start.

Yeah. Because you say, well, hang on a minute. Listen, I've got this book here. I've got this book here. I've got this book here. I've got this book here. I've got this book here. And it tells me the right way to behave. Now, you're not behaving according to what it says in this book. Therefore, I'd better kill you. Yeah, that's mechanical also. Yeah, right. See, that's where it all... And as we say here, it all gets back to what? The sense of separation from the whole, as Terry says. Singling yourself out against the rest. Me against the other 6.99 billion. Right? And on a practical note, like the quicker it fades here, you definitely notice more expansion in that, whereas going around trying to fix the past...

Where the well is the right garment. You know, don't take it seriously. You cannot take it seriously. And correcting happens. It happens all the time. Yeah. That life corrects. Life is self-organizing. It's self-correcting. A very good exercise to do is at the end of the day, before you go to bed, is to sit on the edge of the bed and think of all that went on during the day, all the dramas and troubles you see on TV and all the politics and all the bullshit. Oh, they're having a... Where is it now? Before you go to bed at night and you're sitting there in the emptiness and you've just got that awareness there, and the awareness is lighting up the darkness as well, because if it was really dark, you wouldn't be able to see anything in the room.

But the awareness is there lighting it all up. And then you say, well, where's all that drama and strife? Well, it's all in the mind. It's all in the mind. It's all in the mind. It's the mantra. Now, where is it? It's gone. It was just an appearance. A phenomenal appearance moving through. It's gone. Forget it. Like the river. It's gone. Tomorrow we'll wake up. The river's going to flow past again, and there might be a new prime minister. Oh, shit. You, another one? I can only name one Australian prime minister. The way we're going, there'll be another one. one next month so if you bought bought into it and you said oh but poor turnbull and their backsteam you know what i mean you're stressing yourself out about nothing let him go drama on the screen yeah it's entertainment yeah well that's another point you can you can enjoy it as well you can enjoy it and see what it is and then just laugh at it laugh at it and say well look you know how many prime ministers are we going to freaking have you know but it's fantastic drama yeah who would watch the movie in which there was no violence on the good season oh you couldn't write the script to real life you couldn't write it you couldn't you know fiction's nothing compared to real life some of the we see going on now and when you think of what we call fiction what's it based on it's based on real life that somebody who's had an experience or something he just embellishes it a bit or recontextualizes it and says oh well this is books about uh you know it's somewhere along the line there's an element of truth in it he wouldn't be able to write that book unless he had some references to work on you know what i mean i used to be just the news that's all i would listen to you know even if i was scrolling through my phone i'd be trying to find something to do with the news what's happening around the world and as of about six months ago i've got no idea what it's going on around the planet at the moment which is incredible because from as way back as i can remember i had my finger on the pulse all the time what's going on but in awareness nothing's going on anyway in your awareness nothing's going on the story's playing out as an appearance but the awareness itself is just the field in which that seeming it's like a television screen appears to have a story going on i don't know right but say you go right up close to this tv screen and have a look at it pixel level well you just see it's just it's just light uh a light and shape color and it's all put together to make a seeming pattern and that's how your eyes work too you like your eyes work the same way they work on lights creating us you know a seeming a three-dimensional reality of color shape and form and dimension but in awareness where's the over here and over there in awareness ah that's space see that's space and over here and over there is two things and if awareness is only one thing there can't be an over here and over there in awareness like bob was saying before if it's full and complete you can't add anything to it you can't take anything away from it but you can't divide it either into an over here and over there so space is prior to awareness because space forms in awareness as a split between an andrew over here and a seeming terry over there but in awareness it's just the one flat field like all the appearances in a mirror so it's a very subtle shift when you see that from a seeming three-dimensional world into a more say everything is appearing within you rather than separate to you mhm it's the only way you can say it it's the only way i can put it into some sort of metaphorical language is the fact that you go from seeing yourself over here and terry over there to i am the emptiness in the room and everybody's inside of me not separate to me right my body is appearing in me just like you you you and you are it's all within me and it's all within me and it's me talking back at me that's why when bob's talking back to you is me talking back to me that's why when bob's talking back to me that's why when bob's talking back at you That's why when Bob says the I am, he's talking to the I am.

Terry is me talking back to me and I'm the I am talking back to the I am again. So those seven billion opinions. Exactly. The personalities you might label as completely different from you and disagree. So then you realise they can't possibly be good. No they can't be anything wrong. They can't ultimately be anything wrong and you can't hold anybody. It's all relative. You can't say anybody's guilty of anything. Everybody and that's another scriptural saying everybody's ultimately innocent. Remember we said the other night, I said to you, did I say it in the meeting where I said you cannot hold, ultimately you cannot hold anything against somebody who has an opinion about you because how can he not have an opinion about you?

If he's sitting there from a relative position, he's measuring over to you saying look at that bald idiot over there. If they say no, he's not. He's not. He doesn't. He's not so he's not saying anything and no one really has anything on his head, right? Now how can I blame him when that's what I am as an appearance? He's got no other options but to describe me the way he's seeing me, right? And then he's got a relative opinion. If he was a Hindu, he might say well he's talking about Jesus and shit, right? That doesn't relate to me. See, it doesn't relate to me.

It's not relative to what what I think is over here, right? I've had that song in my head. I don't know if it's Rolling Stones or I don't know. You know you can't always get what you want. Wrong. It's the wrong thing, but you get what you need. And it's just so true. Well, you know what dawned on me lately? A very, very cathartic experience the other day. You don't have... Not everybody has to like you. See, I remember when I was growing up, I was always aware of, you know, trying to be nice to people and make them like you, be a likeable person.

Now, the other day, I sort of saw that so clearly, that first of all, you can't make everybody like you because they're seeing you from their relative point of view, which is their conditioned relative point of view. So it's impossible for them to see you impartially. It's impossible to see you without prejudice. That's why I laugh when people say, oh, you're... you're prejudiced. I always answer, of course I am. I can't be anything else but you. I'm not prejudiced. How can I not be prejudiced? If you see the world from a point of view of awareness, though, no. You see the same life in everybody is the same life in you.

He might be patterned as somebody you can't stand. You don't have to like them as a separate entity, but you respect the life in them. So you don't hurt or harm them because you say, if I hurt or harm them, I'm ultimately harming myself because the life in them is the same life in me. So if I go out and kill that other life, I'm basically killing a part of them because I'm chopping my arm off or something. I'm killing a part of myself. And that's where in Hinduism they talk about ahimcha. You don't hurt or harm any other living organism because it's the same life as you are.

How about mosquito? No. Well, cats. We can leave cats out of the equation. You kill those. But you couldn't. But I don't think you can. You don't do anything at all. Things happen. Life lives on life. But in consciousness, how can it be? Yeah, nothing. You only kill the form. You find yourself slapping mosquito, the form is gone. Life is still there. Yes, that's another point. Can you kill anyone anyway? That's what Krishna said in the Bhagavad Gita, didn't he? You're all mine. Kill each other. It doesn't matter. But you're not going to, obviously. Well, you might if you're defending yourself. Well, you don't know.

If you're protecting a child who's about to be killed by a murderer, you might kill someone. Yes, you don't know. You don't know. This is what the Sai Gagata said, didn't he, Bob? They said, what would happen if a brawl started out the front? He said, I don't know. No one might be down there throwing the first punch. You don't know. You can't say. Absolutely. I was getting the image before of like a patch of muppets, you know, a muppet patch, all the same patch. But that muppet might be noisy and that one's quiet. You can't say. You can't say. You can't say. You can't say.

You can't say. Quiet muppets are quiet but if you really just see them as you, there's no value judgement on any of it. Because soon as you say I wouldn't do that. Quiet muppets me. There's no rules required. There's no – Soon as you say – I'm shaking but – Yeah, I know. But as soon as you say, I wouldn't do that, you're looking at it from a relative point of view, according to your conditioning. You say, well, you know, you're – basically what you're saying is, relative to the way I was brought up and I was told I wouldn't do that. nature has its own rules and nature you'll be impelled to do whatever needs to be done in the moment like i said if we hear the screeching of brakes out there and we saw a big flame going up we'd be all out there now who knows what we do someone might leap into the flames and drag the guy out of the car we don't know we might sit here and keep talking and say fuck him let him burn as like i said when humpty dumpty fell off the wall but the other night you said last week i think life takes care of life and we would be out there but look when humpty dumpty fell off the wall what did all the king's horses and king's men say i said fuck him he's only an egg fry him up where's the bacon that's very true well andrew said it no no no what what i meant by saying that is right we have welfare emotions right we have welfare emotions now what do the welfare emotions do they support life don't they compassion kindness caring they're supportive of life they nurture life what does uh anger hatred malice revenge what does that do it's anti-life isn't it no it's instinct well yeah well yeah yes but but but but it's not it's not it's not going to support life like the welfare emotions would well no there is support of life of individual and there is support of social life so you are talking about emotions that support society the living yeah well that's well that's another thing you've got to say you this is another thing you've got to be careful of when you're talking about the appearance or you're talking about the essence when you're talking about the appearance you're going to be talking in dualistic language but it doesn't matter it doesn't matter but all of it is helps to make that distinction though life supports life if i'm angry and i'm going to attack someone and bite someone it means i'm defending this this particular body if i'm kind and compassionate i'm defending the group but and and revenge right may also be supportive of life as well and from a from a relative point of position totally people just say you kill the murderer he doesn't kill anybody else yeah from a relative point of view yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah you can be justified that's another thing you can say it's just what it is years ago i used to tell the story about the dung beetle yeah you haven't said that for years i've been waiting for that where's he been the dung beetle go for it yeah i think it's an avbeuge there's a beetle called the dung beetle it follows the elephants around and gets a ball of elephant shit it'll do dig a hole a metre deep in the ground, a metre, and then scratch a hole into the boiler shed and lay an egg in that.

As soon as it's done that, it's finished, it dies. Now that little pupae or maggot or whatever it is in the egg will live on that dung for quite a while. Then the rains will come and soften the earth. Well that little maggot or whatever it is comes out of the dung and makes its way up to the earth, to the light again. Then it flies off looking for elephants. There might have been a drought on or something, the elephants are not where it usually goes. So there'll be a heap of them fly there, no elephants, so they die. Some others flying in another direction, they'll be eaten by birds or other birds.

Little lizards or whatever it is, they'll eat thousands of them too. And some others. And the bird shits as well as it flies off. Yeah, it goes along there. Nature's helping itself to all these things. But then there's a few that'll make it back and find the elephant shit and then dig a hole and lay it in and press it down. Yeah, the process goes on and on. Now what were those ones that were killed and died in the drought, were they meant to do that? Or the ones that flew over and got eaten by the insects and they were just born to be eaten by those insects?

Life happens the way it happens but it's always prolific enough to keep it going. But with a young child Bob, they say that if a young child is subject to a disease, it's not a disease. It's a disease. It's a disease. It's a disease. It's a disease. It's a disease. It's a disease. It's a disease. The child is basically subject to love and cuddling and caressing. If it doesn't get that, straightaway that child is kind of like can even die. That's true actually. And so, the point about life supporting life is that if you get a young child who hasn't got that sense of self and you subject him to hate, malice, anger and all that or you subject him to love, kindness and compassion, that was the point I was trying to make as as well.

It's more nurturing, more supportive of life to have the more, what you might call positive emotions rather than the negative emotions. And I think that's, you know, yeah. I think it's a bit of a slippery slope because you could take the Moriori, okay, from Chatham Islands, total pacifists. Then the more like Maori got themselves a big ship, went over there with guns and started killing and raping them all. And then they went away to their little tentative place where they have conversations and said, okay, are we going to stay pacifist or are we going to defend ourselves? Decided to stay pacifist. And the last four blood of Moriori died in the sixties because of that.

And, you know, you can just go on forever saying, but life is just living, you know, it's doing all sorts of stuff. Exactly. And see the tendency to take mental position. This is better than that. This is the mind, always mind evaluating. That one is better than that. Life is having everything, is displaying everything. It's always fresh and new and alive and intelligent. Even anger is intelligent. Yes. Even children dying in orphanage, there is intelligence in it. Yes. But I noticed like if, if I see the world from the point of view of pure awareness, right, it's, it's far more benevolent, loving, kind things, energies.

Can you see love in anger? It doesn't make me want to go out and hate and kill. You know what I mean? It doesn't want to make me hate and kill. Not always the case. What about that famous case, Leopold and the night wedding in America? The parents, the parents are both the size of some of the wealthiest people in America. Good education, the best education, everything they wanted in life. What did they do? They grew up and murdered the parents. Oh, those two brothers. Yes, but yeah, but, but, but like I said, if they saw the world from the point of view of awareness, for example, you're not a violent person, Bob, you're a benevolent person.

Now, but we're not talking about, we're not talking about 50 cups, Bob. Back in the day, Bob. Yeah. We're talking about, you know. Yeah, I see your point, Andrew. You're right. Of course, if you, if you don't have self-center that you need to gratify all the time, you're not going to be looking for this gratification. You're not going to be wanting to get, snatch anyone, anything from anyone and take advantage of anyone because there is no you who will benefit from it. That's what I mean. Absolutely. But it doesn't mean that this emotion is better than that. You see, you see the life in other people is the same life in you and you will benefit from it.

It's the same life in you. And you love, as Bob says, you love to be, you love your own life, right? So why would you want to make that other person suffer, so to speak? Right? Well, it's not that you are taking a decision to not make someone suffer. Yeah, that's what I mean. It's just that the action is not going to happen. Yeah, it doesn't happen. However, and ask Bob, and I can tell you, confess myself, we did exterminate a few hundred of ants, like a couple of months ago. Robert, do you want to look? Look at the ground. Yeah, look at it. Yeah, here.

Here. Because we had to. Because we had to. Same with other parasites, you know. Fungi on the nail. They want to live also. The bacteria in the guts. Bob was on antibiotics for the last couple of months. It is killing. But that gets back to what Bob says about the tsunami. The tsunami comes in and wipes out a couple of hundred thousand people. There's nothing there that's maleficly saying, well, Jesus, I'm going to create this giant wave and wipe every arsehole out. It just happens. Like an earthquake. Yeah, action happens. They do happen. And yes, I wouldn't want to take advantage of anyone because there is no one to benefit in here.

I can't. That's the point though, isn't it? Because if you think you can get a benefit, who's the benefit going to be for? Me. There you go. So if there's no me that wants a benefit, or to profit out of somebody, you let that person just go on his way type of thing. But the action still happens. I'm still going to kill broccoli. For the dinner tomorrow. Yeah, that's right. And actually online when I just said that I don't kill anything, because I remember when my cat had infested by fleas. And I put a hot thin of water with soap and I combed through and I killed 120 fleas and I don't care.

I've done it again. Because she was suffering so much. There's the point though, you just said it there. You alleviated suffering. Yeah. It was terrible. Not by fleas. Not for the fleas, no. Yeah, I know. And it's interesting because at that stage I was really following the Buddhist thing about you don't take the presciptor, you never take the life of the bad life. You took life by slapping your knee. But you've got a relationship with the cat. You haven't got a relationship with the fleas. When you look at life, lives on life all the time. Yeah. Couldn't be life without living on life. Yeah. Enzymes in the guts.

If you have a relative relationship with a pet, you... You put that pet before a flea. Oh, absolutely. It's like a child. You put your child before the dog down. When a dog bites somebody, the parent says, well, I want to get rid of the dog. He bit my kid. Even that might be the parent's fault. Well, that's right. But from their relative point of view, their kid's more important. The other person's relative point of view will say, oh, no, no, no, I'm not putting my dog down. He didn't do anything wrong. That kid went and pulled his tail. See, that's where, see, the relative point of view.

But then you have to be careful that you don't put your dog down. Now, this is a really important topic. And I really like this one, also, because we were watching a lot of documentaries with Bob. And Bob was watching even more and telling me stories about it. There is, like, you know, lions or tigers, they don't have the ego. They don't relate. They don't defend themselves. But what they do, the lion, if they want lioness to be in a heat, he will kill her cubs. And then he will make her pregnant. And she will go in a heat when the cubs are killed. And then.

It is an instinct, it is a program, it is the way it works. 90% of kids that get killed get killed by their stepfather, not by their biological father. So it happens in humans. That's right, but it doesn't really have to be an ego or self-gratification, because animals, they don't have ego or self-gratification. It's just a software. Nature has its own rules, doesn't it? Nature has its own rules. And that is desperate, well, like the selfish gene, that it's desperate to survive. And that's one story, because there's another story that you've got a patch of maize, and it's only by a different one, enough different ones, that it survives more.

It's like life works for the greater good of itself almost. As Terry said earlier, the seven billion in 130 years and all will be gone. There'll be another 10 million assholes. Who's going to give a shit about them? They could have been just void, and that would be cool too. The lions are probably all be gone too. Well, look, they say there's something like how many thousand species die off every year that go extinct. There's like thousands of them. We don't give a shit. You know, all these sort of weird and wonderful beetles and bugs that die off every year and become extinct. We don't give a shit.

We don't kill the dinosaurs, really. No, because we're causing most of it too. Yeah. Tearing down the forest and all that. I used to care more, and now it just is, was it one or two? I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. But, by and by, people will sail off and the philosophy is follow what is. Because you can't... Sooner or later... It is what it is. Sooner or later, human beings will get wiped out, and the planet will regenerate over a few billion years or whatever. You know what I mean? Yeah, it's not saving the planet, it's saving the human. The classic example of that, remember that Chernobyl?

The nuclear reactor melted down in Russia? They fenced the whole area off, or whatever. It was a no-go zone area for the last 20 or 30 years, whatever it was. Who says, oh, you can't go in there? You can't go in there? radioactive don't go in there blah blah blah it's uh you know everyone's expected to go in there's a moonscape you know there's life's been extinguished there and some scientists and that went in there they couldn't believe it the whole area had regenerated there was wolves there was all sorts of wildlife the trees had grown up the greenery they were as green as anything and see there are lots of mutations though there was three headed wolves with six eyes no but the point is nature's prolific it's prolific it just keeps regenerating you know the intelligence energy doesn't choose does it yeah nature's prolific and what would be what's the problem with three-headed wolves anyway you biased bastard what's the problem with a three-headed wolf anyway that's right yeah and also but it was really the flip side of that i meant like if the humans actually want to save anything themselves they have to save because the planet will regenerate they've never been to tasmania okay thank you the two headers down there bob down at tasmania any tasmanians online any new zealanders online there's only about 90 shoplifting days left at christmas for all the truck drivers there's only six sleeps left for christmas i think we're talking about the tasmanians that are extinct because they were killed off no i like the new zealand one there's only 90 shoplifting days left for christmas get out there get out there get out there get out there get out there get out there get out there get out there get out there get out there