Non duality spiel and discussion - Sailor Bob + Kat

I'm just to fill you all in. A couple of months ago I had a hip operation. I've had a couple of teeth out. I've been recovering. I'm getting a bit of Parkinson's. I find the mind's not as good as it used to be. I've been speaking this stuff since 1977, hardly missed a day. And I just think I need a bit of a spell for a while. So I've asked Kat to take over. She's got a pretty good grounding in this. She's been coming here for a couple of years and she's looked into a lot of other things along the way. So if you've got any argument with her or I want to know, don't forget to question.

If you've got any doubts about it. I Am That, Ramana Maharshi, I Nishagiri, Dzogchen, Veda, Veda, presence-awareness, Mahavakya. How he is presenting nonduality? Well, you know, I don't live that long, but I've been around, I've been shopping, guru-shopping and trying and checking and watching YouTube for many, many years before I met him because I didn't really have any other way to resonate with it. Now I don't have to do that. But yeah, I didn't really come across with anything as compact and as precise and as brilliant as this Peel. Because what this Peel does, it shows us in every step that everything is nothing and the one who is seeking is non-existent.

So basically when Bob starts that what you're seeking you already are. So you are that what you're seeking. Now what are you seeking? I used to seek for enlightenment or realization or truth. So how am I enlightenment? What a nonsense. Yeah, but you are that, okay, so what is that if we want to seek for the that? Yeah, that is everything, like that is whatever, shoes, carpet, that's Bob. Like I'm not everything, so it doesn't really make sense for the mind and it never works. The trick with the whole seeking is that the reality is happening right here, right now. The reality is known, the reality is experienced, the experiencing is going on.

But habitually we vacate that innate experience that is there all along and we go to the head and try to describe it or find it or seek it. So really leaving the space of heart and the gut instinct of being and the heart sense of knowing and going to the head and trying to intellectualize it or understand it conceptually, this is where we actually miss out. This is, and this is natural also because as we grow up, as we are little children, there is no, Bob now you continue for a moment, I open the door. . . . . . . . . . Thank you.

What is the difference between separation and isolation? The phenomenon of me versus the world comes up. As it grows up, it starts comparing itself, it starts seeing people bigger and better and stronger, and the vulnerability and the insecurity sets in it. And then as it grows further, it starts getting inside, there must be something else, the life becomes painful, becomes unbearable. So it starts looking for the way out. For the way out of what? Of spontaneous natural living that is going on all the time, that has been going on since the form came, emerged out of the womb and even before that. What happened on the way is just that natural spontaneous living was kind of exchange for thought.

Like Banki says, why exchange unborn for thought? Unborn Buddha mind or unborn mind suddenly has been exchanged for thought. So now the world becomes conceptual, I become conceptual, my self-esteem now becomes important. Of course, if I'm confident and I have a good, strong, nice family and I have good self-esteem, I'll get a good job, I'll do comparably well in the world, And I may not even ever need to look into this stuff because, yeah, others have it worse. I feel in this false sense of gratitude. But things will, shit will hit the fans, I'll get sick, my parents, they will go and, of course, the confrontations will show up.

But if I have low self I go into sedating I go into shopping addiction sex addiction drug addiction And the misery the suffering may push me out to the spiritual seeking And all that, the idea of esteem, the idea of self, idea of separate self that needs to be evaluated, that needs to be compared, they are all sitting in the head. All these ideas were invented when we were little children and they are all false. Those are just thoughts that are being believed. If those thoughts are questioned, there is no self, there is no need for esteem, high or low. Without any self-esteem, without any need to compare this form to the form of a tree or this form, what problem can I have at all?

Like, if that is not personal, that knows what to do, that is living the life, that is breathing itself, that is supporting itself, finding food, defecating, doing whatever it needs. And the idea in the head that it should perform better, it should compare itself and get maybe better position in the tribe or better job, is again just a thought. So, in the spontaneous natural flow of life, there is a thought telling me that this is not good or this is not good. And basically if that thought is being fueled by the belief, by life essence, it becomes a reality. That's how the dream comes to the reality.

And that's where the extremes show up. The suffering, the extreme pain and a little brief break from suffering. Like, okay, I'll have a puff of a drug or I will have an orgasm. Brief moment break of the suffering. And then it sets again and we go into these extremes all the time. And it's tiring, it's exhausting, and it's painful, and it's not necessary. So for those lucky seeming individuals who have the thought that maybe there is another way to live and they find their ways, usually the search goes like Bob, it took him through religions, through 12-step programs, like you say this story about someone, the thirsty tourists sitting in the high mountains And they have no water.

There is a stream going down, but it's far away and they're exhausted. So one of them volunteers and goes down and falls a few times, rolls around, get bruises, maybe break a rib and get the water. So that's how we're all seeking and going through different, maybe even cults or different experiences. Many people seek the relief from suffering in wealth, in getting money, or in getting a relationship, or position in a group, and they never find it. Other people seek it in a faith, believing that God somewhere out there loves me, and that gives them a temporary sense of relief also. But the mind usually steals the show, and it always has the idea that it should be different than it is.

And regardless whether it is God's will or whatever, whatever I'm maybe more rich or better positioned than other people, it's not enough, it's never enough. When the center sits in the head, the idea that it has to be different will just come back again and again. And the relief from the idea of that should be different is the little brief moment, little brief break from suffering. And this is the natural state. The natural state is the most basic, the most natural, and the most obvious awareness of being, which is not covered up by the layer of beliefs that I'm not this yet, the life should be different, I'm not good enough, I didn't get it yet.

Those are all ideas. And they happen on that natural state of natural effortless being, where the heart is beating, the eyes are relating images to the brain and everything is happening spontaneously. The cells are being replaced, the hair are growing. It all happens without any entity having any idea whether it should happen or it shouldn't happen this way or the other way. In the same way, thinking spontaneously happening. When the action is required, when the planning is required, the thoughts come up in the head and they basically guide the body to whatever is necessary. So even the mind is utilized from that groundedness, that basic sense of being and the awareness of being, being conscious of the being, consciousness of being.

So Bob often says in Hinduism they call it Sat Chit Ananda. And that's a very precise description of that basic screen. The awareness of being is bliss. The basic of being, knowing and loving to be. So it is natural state and we all know it. First of all we all have been children before we were conditioned to exchange unborn for Translated by R. M. M. Horrible! So the natural state doesn't mean that the baby is laughing all the time. Natural state means us in nature. Us in nature, like, you know, there are droughts in nature, there are floods in nature. This is all natural. So pain is natural.

What not natural is the suffering When out of the pain okay if I am a baby and I have the conceptual mind and I wet and I hungry I going to scream And that okay that the way the body functions But today if that same thing happens to an individual there is a big story going on Why is it happening to me? Why me? Why the whole world is against me? My own body is against me. And that's suffering. So, being okay with the fact like Bob, he's just going off the flu, still a little bit of a cough. Before that, yeah, teeth, dentists, operation, a lot of pain, but no suffering.

That was the time we had in the hospital, he's been in the hospital for three weeks, and yeah, three weeks. Lying in bed most of the time, and he was having a happy baby smile on the face. Well, not, you know, they kept him on a painkillers, of course. But, yeah, I remember I used to, when I was still a seeker, I used to get sick. Well, couple of times a year because I was flying a lot and everything. After spending six weeks or three months on the ship where is completely sterile, no bacterias, going to the airplane, I was sick just for granted. And I absolutely self-sabotage.

I felt like I'm weak and unworthy. I would beat myself up. I would stop feeding myself. I would hate, absolutely hate myself and I would kick out my ex-husband from home. Go to the mountains, go somewhere because otherwise I'm gonna take it up on you. You're gonna suffer because I suffer. It's not happening anymore and it's definitely not happening with him. So there is another way. There is a way of living which is completely effortless, which is living from staying in that awareness of being, that heart and gut being grounded in the body, being aware of the sensations, like living with five senses wide open and unfixated awareness, divided evenly between hearing, seeing, tasting, touching, smelling.

It doesn't mean that we should kind of try to think our way to it. Oh, how much is the hearing taking of a space? No, the thinking is also just one of the senses. And the thinking, whether we want it or not, the mind is still operating senses. Like I don't have to label the traffic to know that this is a traffic, because mind has the database that is operating the senses. So nothing needs to be done for the effortless functioning. It doesn't need the effort to put the attention on the senses. It actually needs undoing. Like the moment the thinking steals the show and becomes the center of attention, takes up like if the attention is let's say the stream of 100% and now thinking takes 90% of it.

Translation Insights or beautiful pointers where life could take me if I was utterly awake. And really being awake is there underneath that stream of thoughts that, you know, the wakefulness or the consciousness of being aware is there all the time. And sometimes the thinking, the story goes on top of it and it just steals the show. So the way of effortless living and waking up from the stream of thoughts, from the dream of thoughts, is just to notice. And again, it's no one to notice it, because the self is ultimately a fiction, the self is a conceptual illusion that we learned to put on ourselves.

And it grew out with us as we were children, we were growing up with that image to which we were adding experiences and events, What have I been? What have I achieved? What's my star sign or enagram type? And all the others, wisdom and knowledge adding to that conceptual image. And it became so real that nobody questions it. But it isn't. It's just in the head. It doesn't exist, I mean, mentally, conceptually. It doesn't even exist in the head as a form. It's not a form. But it doesn't exist physically. Exactly. It's no such a thing as soul in the heart or what else you call it, ego or inner God or whatever.

They have different labels for it or individual entity. There is no such a thing. It's only a belief, it's a belief thought form, thought formation like Raibhugita call it thought formation. Everything is thought formation. But this one is particularly I didn't because it's just really like Santa Claus. It's just something that we agree on believing, but it doesn't have existence. It's just like Bob gives the examples of things that we believed without questioning as humanity. Earth was flat as humanity. We didn't question it for many, many years. Nobody would go to the ocean because they could fall on the edge of the Earth. Now the belief has changed.

Now the Earth is round. And now we can visualize or think of a planet and the space, and they have different explanations and different beliefs. They are also beliefs. There may be better kind of models which is growing together with us, but they are still beliefs because who is experiencing the roundness of a planet right here, right now? We may have the glimpse in other time, in other space when we fly the airplane All this is reality There is no earth it just this It just this room it just these feelings these sensations these thoughts these sounds That the reality And yeah, there's not much more to it really.

It's just persistent moment-to-moment realization that the thought stream that is commenting on reality And the imagination that is superimposed on reality is not it. It's waking up from the dream that is overlaying a dream. Because ultimately, this is my favorite dream, but there is a lot of dreams. The physical world is a dream too, because it's so reliable. It's completely relying on the sensory experiences of the body. And a body is a dream too. Ultimately, ancients call it Maya or illusion. The whole manifestation is manifestation only. It's time-bound, it appears and disappears. Planets appear and disappear. Of course, in the scale that we are using, our comparison to our reference point, which is the body, which is okay.

The planets are forever, they look like they don't pop up and disappear. But ultimately from the timelessness, everything that is time-bound is appearance because it shows up and it is gone. Bodies like Terry was saying in the last meeting, 150 years ago, these people had very, very similar discussions, very important. Where are they now? In 150 years, where are those people in this meeting and the huge importance of what we're discussing, The ultimate goal in life, where is that going to go? This is also just popping up and disappearing. So ultimately from the perspective of timelessness, not only the whole world, the whole appearance is just a dream, is illusion, it's also not important, it's not that important.

It is not to undermine every single frame of appearance, It's not to undermine the drive to help someone or to love someone or to create wonderful art. Because this... and things that are relatively important in appearance. Because appearance is also that. This is the way the timelessness expresses us as a time bound, as things that are coming and going. And it is totally to be loved. It is totally to be viewed and understood as another form of being. There is a timeless, spaceless awareness expressing itself as being, as forms, emptiness coming to be a form. So everything has a being and everything has the relative importance in their being.

So it is really not only waking up from the stream of suffering That is the commentary, the thought stream that creates the suffering, but it's also waking up into loving what is, loving the manifestation. Because when it is understood for what it is, when we see the fleeting appearance as coming and disappearing next minute or next million years, it's just the time to love it now, Because it's not going to be there in the next minute or next million years. So it is really about self-appreciation, because if there is no separation, if there is only one, so that one, that one cognizing emptiness expressing as forms, is what I am.

I can't be separate or different from that one thing, because I'm just another form through which it expresses itself. And in that particular form, it has the glimpse of actually seeing itself. And in every form it does, in different ways. Even the tree has the way, is alive, is the aliveness in the tree. Everything is a consciousness, everything is an awareness. But in a human form, it has additional way to experience its own self through forgetting what it is And believing into a conceptual reality, completely falling for the dream and waking up. Because in the dualistic reality, in the dualistic world, everything can be only seen on the background of its opposite.

So even the realization happen only for those who were asleep first. Like, who can wake up who never fall asleep? So that's... OK, few minutes more. Yeah, it is because, you know, there are a lot of people here who had an experiences and who had wonderful ways of putting it in words and that should be included. That's the uniqueness and beauty of this room and this meetings. Because you are first time here, so the... Oh, that's cut. Usually when you go and see the big speakers in the big rooms, they're wonderful. But they give you a microphone. I spent like nine days for five thousand dollars with Bayron Katie and for all that nine days I didn't get the chance to ask question once.

I was raising my hand. I had thousand questions. It was 20 years ago anyway. Eventually I had to grasp her after when she was already tired and wanting to rest. So here not only we ask questions but we also guide each other because ultimately everything is that one. So person who has absolutely no clue about spirituality, never looked into nonduality can have life understanding which can be transformational. I spent 17 years at sea and this is where I learned that basic seamen, people who swear, people who go and have wives in every port, I am a member of the group of people who support, who get drunk whenever they can, and of course among them a lot of precious, wonderful,

They are all precious, magnificent people with a stunning life experience, but not into any sort of spiritual teachings.

And they would give me their life lessons, like, you know, everyone is fighting their battles, so have the heart, have compassion. How true is that? Of people who are connected, like really being able to listen to the world, to open up. Not only, okay, Bob is enlightened, 42 years, okay, I'm only going to listen to Bob, I'm not going to listen to anyone else who speaks in the room, because what could they know? Well, it's only that one life expressing through everyone. That everyone has something to bring in, if we know how to listen. If we listen through the bottom of the heart, it's that heart sort of a listening, Then you can put the radio on and a stupid advertisement in the radio can have this, because it's ultimately the same one, always.

The frequency, it can shift you. Or you can open the book on a random page and or you can listen to the bird, to the magpie, you can see the flower. So it is really all there is. There is nothing separate, there is nothing different than that one. So if there is a longing in the heart to tune into that frequency of awakening from the first layer of the dream, because let's not fool ourselves, the awakening from the dream of the body is to shed it. So really in that life as a human we can awaken to a dream. So now I can be awakened to the fact that I'm dreaming the conceptual world, that I'm dreaming the physical world, but there's still appearance, there's still dreams.

So I can wake up from the conceptual layer. I probably won't wake up till I die from the physical layer, because my eyes, my ears and my senses, they're still going to be working, and they're still going to be recreating. My brain is going to be interpreting pictures, The world will be, the appearance will probably be recreated. Of course, with the little intermittent breaks for the sleep or for any sort of other experiences, because the experiences are just another way it expresses itself. But ultimately waking up to a dream is called the Great Enlightenment. When we actually leave, like Raibhugita is explaining it in a magnificent way.

It says, what was it the word for this one? Gosh, a few different, let me see, maybe I'll find it. Mukta, some different type of Sahaja Samadhi. Yeah, and that's the true Samadhi. Sahaja Nishtha. The Master of the River Ganga, the great Master sitting on the bank of the Ganga River, and the students going around him, and he says, I'm thirsty. One of the students runs to the river and gets him a water, and then he comes back in half an hour, and the Master is in Samadhi. Not even there. Ten years passes, the Master is in Samadhi. So they feed him, they wash him, they clean him, they give him water, and he's not even there.

Ultimate Samadhi or Nirvana, whatever. And then he wakes up twenty years later, Where is my water? Didn't advance in consciousness. It was just a longer sleep. So wherever he was, it had a beginning and it has an end. So it is an experience. So ultimate Nirvana or whatever, the Samadhi in which In which there is no contact with the world, it may be a great goal if somebody is interested in a long sleep. But, and whatever is happening, it could be an ecstasy going on for ten years, but in the relative time here, it is just falling asleep and waking up, beginning, end and end.

So it is experience. And experiencing awareness of stillness, awareness of being, awareness, just this wakefulness, In which all the experiences, samadhi, not samadhi, orgasm, tears, sadness, joy, whatever, they're coming up. This is the ultimate freedom. Because now, if there is no self, separate self that is having an idea that, oh, this shouldn't have happened to me, and pleasure, I should only get pleasure, I shouldn't get any pain, I should only have sunny days and summer, there shouldn't be nights and there shouldn't be winter. If there was no nights, there wouldn't be a day. If there was no sadness, there wouldn't be a joy, there wouldn't be experience, there would be just nothing.

So the way the whole appearance is orchestrated, it is going to be good and bad, pleasant, painful, happy, sad. And if those events are labelled but are not related, it is already a great relief. Because I won't say that when Bob has the flu or he has the cough and he is in pain, I am not saying that this is wonderful. No, it is not. But if I don't put a label on it at all, it is just what it is. If I don't compare, or even better, if he doesn't compare it with the time a week ago when the pain wasn't there, oh yeah, there was no pain, now it is, there won't be a sense of misery.

If there is no travelling in the mind and relating calculating comparing everything as it is is just fine Like wounded animal is sitting under the tree and is not complaining, oh, why did I get shot, or why did I, or whatever. No, it's just waiting for the body to heal itself in quiet. It doesn't travel and remember times when it wasn't wounded. And of course it doesn't mean the pain is not there, the pain is there. But suffering is an option. Suffering doesn't have to be there. So life without suffering, and it's not for granted, it is again moment-to-moment realization. The emptiness, cognizing emptiness is waking up moment-to-moment.

So it doesn't mean that Bob will never get irritable, because whatever, you know, it's like how many times, like Parkinson's, you know, the hand is shaking and you have to keep it with two hands to eat. You can get pissed off with that, but how long is that going to last? The moment, the response, natural response being pissed off comes up for a couple of seconds and then waking up, oh, whatever, that's how it is today. Because, you know, having the brain, having the mind, having the reasoning capacity, calculating capacity, it's not going to stop. So, subtle way of having, of viewing the bigger picture, It's not gonna stop.

It's just... Well, nothing is really changing. That's the beauty of realizing that the so-called enlightenment has never ever been missed. It has always been there. There is no such a thing that enlightenment is not a thing. Enlightenment is an absence of relating to the separate self which is made of concept. So if there is no relating, because there is nothing to relate, that's the natural state. So the natural state as in nature, floods, fires, tears, whatever, floods of tears, the volcanoes of anger, they all happen in the body just as they happen in the weather. And that's the beauty of it, because weather doesn't complain, tsunami doesn't say, I don't want a flood or the winter doesn't say it doesn't want a summer.

It is, it all is loved, all is permitted, all is accepted, all is embraced in the way it appears. Okay, now it's time for drought. Let's feel how it feels, you know, I can feel drought or whatever or PMS, whatever. And it is welcome. And there is no idea that it shouldn't be there. That's freedom. Freedom from suffering, not a freedom from pain. In the duality, thing called freedom from pain, I don't know if it's possible. Maybe if you're fully paralyzed and on drugs all your life, maybe. I don't know if anybody would wish for that. Apart from that, there is just a possibility of freedom from suffering.

And that's a huge possibility because the life really begins at the moment when relating stops. Because before that, it is just kind of living in a fog, it's just living in a story. And for me it's still reasonably recent, it's less than three years, but I remember this three years ago. I was living in the story of me and I was constantly anxious about me. I was constantly concerned about what people think about me, what does it mean for me. Every situation and every scenario had to be interpreted as something related to me. And there isn't any me. Like what a waste of brain capacity, what a waste of the beauty of life, because there's so much of a busyness in relating everything to me.

When I'm nothing, I don't need self-esteem. I don't need self-improvement. I don't need any growth. I don't need to work on my character defects. I don't need any of it. Which absolutely doesn't mean that I will not grow. Because growth is natural in life. The tree is growing. So I may be growing as a cook, cooking every day. I may be growing as a friend, having friends. But without the idea that I have to put an effort to become something else I am not good enough as I am. Well, I didn't make myself. The whole universe contributed to this form, to look this way and to think this way.

The way my mother was nursing me, what she was eating when she was pregnant, the schools, the teachers, everything, the whole world contributes. And now there is an entity to come and say, Oh, this is my fault, I am unworthy, I am not trying well enough. What a grandiosity! Like the whole world is responsible of how this is looking and how this is performing. Who am I to take credit as an entity? It's just... To be humble really is to say, I have nothing to do with that. I screw up and I make mistake, I have nothing to do with that. The universe collectively created that form to make that mistake.

I am never guilty of anything anymore. I am purely innocent. And of course if I make a mistake and someone is hurt, the sadness, the compassion, the crying may arise in it, because that's how this form is responding. And of course trying to do making up. In that absence of self, of the relating, of constantly interpreting and adding meaning to everything, what it means for me. In absence of that mental noise, there is so much more of alertness, natural alertness. And in the absence of me needing to have any part of, let's say, I'm helping. I just an hour ago I was helping a man on the wheelchair to get out from his commodity chair to his bed and to his wheelchair There was no me in the picture There is no place for the me It has nothing to do with me Now is the service the body is at service And the body is only focused on the action It doesn't have commentary, it doesn't have evaluation how it does the action.

It is completely, 100% attention on what is done at the moment. There is no need for any relating to the me. What does it mean to me? There is no me. And this type of living is more kind of efficient, is more ergonomic also, more things get done and there is more time to rest. All that energy that was trapped in creating the conceptual world, and all that energy that was trapped in being self-concerned, or how does it look for others, or what do they think about me, or what is going to happen to me in ten years from now, or what if I lose the job or fall sick, this crap, it doesn't take space in attention anymore.

It just doesn't come up. All that energy that was locked in that mental commentary is now free. And it's now free for loving to be, for appreciating what is, for seeing the beauty, for recognizing itself in every single form. So this is the same One appearing as every single form and falling in love with itself. So the life is much more simple and it only takes a look. Is there anything there? Anything there, what is looking? Nobody has found it so far. The assumption is there, just like seven or eight year old assume that for Christmas there will be a Santa coming through the funnel and bringing them gifts.

Assumption is there, but is it? Like, you know, look behind your eyes, you can't do it, but just feel it, feel it, what is behind the face, what is it? Is there anything there? It's like all we can be aware is what we see, hear, taste, touch and smell. So there is only an awareness of the sensory experiences, and those sensory experiences are happening simultaneously. I may hear and see at the same time. And there may be a thinking process going on and sensations going in the body. And this is all there ever is. So every time when I look, all there is, is the awareness of sensations, awareness of the space of being, awareness maybe on the sensation on the head or sensation anywhere.

Nothing else. That's all there is. So the idea that there is an individual that runs the sensations It's basically an illusion, it's a fiction and it can be questioned. Or, like some people here, and this is beautiful because that's how Bob starts the spiel, you are already that, just trust me and live your life as if that is true and you will see. Sometimes he even says, fake it till you make it, which is not really faking, that's the reality. You don't have to fake that there is no entity, because there is no entity. But if you think there is, yeah, OK, pretend there isn't.

Pretend there is a space and see what's appearing in the space. OK, the thought, what they will... Ah, but my wife doesn't love me. Yeah, that's just a thought. Yeah, yeah, but that thought feels very personal. It feels close to my heart. It feels it's about me. OK, so there is a thought, my wife doesn't love me, and there is a feeling. The feeling in the heart, contraction. Yes, two things on the screen of awareness. They are both known and knowing. They are both appearing in the space of aware being, knowing. And in every single situation there is no need for any entity to run anything.

There is a thought and there may be a feeling. There is a fear, there is a projection of future, there is mental image of future, imagination. That's all there is, always, one scene at a time. The basic screen of knowing awareness and the content, the thought, the feeling, whatever. Nothing more. If anybody ever finds anything more on it or to it, please tell us because that would be an interesting discovery, wouldn't it? Yes, I guess now I can hand it over. So please, whatever you think can be helpful for someone else, if you ever had insights into it, don't be greedy, share it. Because someone, we have few people listening to us live, they may hear it and it may be the game changer for them.

Whatever you understood, that's if you have the insights. Apart from that, if you have any doubts, if you have any questions. Again, the people who are there with us, they may have questions too. And they don't... I see occasionally there is some sign on the screen. Perhaps it is a question, but I just can't... Can you read it, Bob? I'm pretty blind. Yeah, he can't read it either. So I will get to it and answer it. But meantime, you know, the questions, the set of questions is always the same. I mean, I don't know, I only heard a couple of hundred of my own questions and maybe a couple of thousands of other people's questions that would be probably the same as mine.

So come up with it because they won't be just your questions. They will be questions of other people too. And to voice it, it will help to clear it up. So questions, insights, please. I put it on the room. Life comes from nothing That Bill We love you Bill And you so right And Bill is also saying true nonduality communication does not contain any agenda Yes, spot on, very well said. It does not contain any prescription for understanding, no technique or discipline to partake in, no suggestion that one must do this or that to achieve anything. There is only life, not your life or my life, just life, just this.

Beautiful. See, those are people who are coming and listening to Bob. In no time they start coming up with beautiful insights like this. So, your turn. Yeah, Bob has, Bill has a beautiful clarity for years and he's sharing it and it's spot on. Pearls of wisdom. And everyone of you has those pearls of wisdom. Share them. The only problem is this referral, referring things to the conceptual self. I was overseas a few weeks ago in Bali and I got really sick and I was sort of in bed for a few days. I was very happy and content. I was alright. But as soon as I start projecting and thinking about what's going to happen to me tomorrow, what am I going to do about this, what will I do about that, the seeming troubles arise, but underneath it all was this feeling of peace and contentment.

And now whatever happened, whether I live or die or go here or there or whatever is okay. It's just okay. And when projection happens, how quickly you wake up from it to realize that it's just a game projection. It's just projection. It is only that. Few minutes and then you laugh. You know it. It is a dream like any other dream. Like if I drift off to sleep and have dreams about whatever good things or bad things, it's just that too. Absolutely. Waking or asleep or whatever. Alive or dead for that matter. Totally, yes, men or maggot. Exactly. Any problems that arise are that, what is going to happen to me?

What will other people involved in this feel about something or rather is projection in the mind about something else that doesn't exist but only exists as a thought. Exactly. It's a mental image creating imaginary reality an hour or five hours or five days from now that doesn't have existence in this moment. No, exactly. Only exists in a dream. In a dream, I would say. So how do we jump the fence from the dream to the non-dream? Yeah. I know it's a question I've always asked the same question, but at the end of the day that's what it boils down to, isn't it? I am a member of the National Association of the Deaf and Hard of Hearing.

Shakespeare play. Do you ever wake up for a minute or two? And then you go straight back to sleep? Sometimes, yeah. Sometimes I jump in a cold shower. OK, Bob was going to say something. Shakespeare teller, nothing either good or bad, but thinking makes it so. If you know that, why bother to think? Also Nisargadatta had a good quote about the dream, like how to, you remember this one? Dream is not your problem. Yeah. Your problem is that you like one part of it and not the other. Realize you were dreaming a dream you call the world. The dream is not your problem, your problem is you love one part of the dream and not the other.

Either love all of it or none of it. Don't involve in any way at all. And the rest will be done for you, naturally, if it's so. And the way he actually starts that sentence, just a sentence before what Bob is saying, he's answering the question, how to go beyond the dream. And he says, why go anywhere? Why go beyond the dream? Dream is not your problem. Stay in the dream. Dream is fine. It's just realizing that the part of the dream that is a nightmare, you want to wake up. And the nightmare is usually in the head. It's usually when you're thinking about yourself, what's happening to you.

This is the only one. When you feel unhappy, when you feel there is not enough or whatever, just recognize the feeling. Recognize dream as the dream. This is the only thing to be done. So when the dream shows up, oh, what am I going to do tomorrow? Oh, I have low self-esteem, I'm unworthy or whatever. Ah, I'm thinking, I'm dreaming. Okay, that's all. It's not a matter of waking up from the dream, it's awakening to the dream. Realising it's a dream. Well said. Yeah. The common mistake that we can make is, you're told right from the back, you are already that. That that you're trying to find, that that you're seeking, you are already that.

So generally what we do when we come into this line of enquiry, we're wanting to get

You said before, how do I wake up? How do I get there? Like, how do I do that? That's, again, wanting to acquire something, or wanting to grab at something. And it will always be, from that standpoint, it will always be conceptual. Whatever it is that you're grasping for, it will always be conceptual. So we come into this wanting to get, wanting to acquire, wanting to have something. But we're told we're already that. So this process isn't actually about getting or acquiring or becoming anything. It's actually an undoing.

It's a total undoing. That that gets in our way of seeing that that we actually already are I Am is this conceptualized me that we've got going on. It's that me that's looking to change. It's that me that's looking, not... Correct. Correct. So it's a matter of seeing that. Seeing that me that's looking to change. And seeing what that actually is. What is that? Does it have any substance? Anything at all? And if you really look closely, really look closely, all that is is a thought. It's an idea. It's just an idea that pops up. That you want to become that, with the natural fact that you're really that.

Yep. But the idea is all constantly there. Yep. And that's what's stopping you. You know, in Hinduism it's often referred to as neti neti. So it's about coming... You can't understand what you actually are from what you're not. It's fucking impossible. It's totally, absolutely totally impossible. So the idea of this process is an undoing. So it's coming to see what you're not. That can be done. You can see that. I'm not this, I'm not that thought. You can see it. But to do that, you need to turn in on yourself and examine where is this me? What is this me? How does it function? How does it create its reality, its identity?

What instruments does it use to create its identity? Thought. Just thought. It also grasps onto that as well. It does. Yeah, but I'm here. It's my awareness. It's my seeing. It's my hearing. And that awareness and seeing and hearing, all those five senses and being absolutely present, it's got nothing to do with the me at all. It's there anyway. The me steps in and takes ownership of it. So the battle that goes on within us is just two separate thoughts battling one another. That's it. If you really look, there's absolutely nothing else. There is no me other than that. And you can watch it, you can see it.

I was having a discussion with Tess before the meeting started. He had a great realization yesterday in that he became aware of the negative self-talk that goes on in us as human beings. I am a person who is not aware of the existence of the universe. You're it. You're it. And it's fucking awful when that manifests into this beingness or into this body. All the sensations that it brings up in that body, fear, ugh, it's awful. So you kind of need to get a bit of separation. What I said to Tess was, that's great, you see that. Because I really saw, you know, how negative and destructive the thoughts are that can go on.

I asked him who were all those thoughts that were going on speaking to? Who were they talking to? Who were they referring to? When we've got all that negative stuff that rattles on in our head, who's taking delivery of it? What is taking delivery of that mental chatter that goes on in our head? That false thought. Yeah, another thought. It's literally just another thought. The only way you can know that is to come to see it. You've literally got to come to see it. So it's just a stripping back. This whole thing really is a stripping back until you see with absolute clarity what this so-called me or self-identity really is.

Or what tool it uses to manifest itself I am a person who is self I am a person who is self-awareness. The only thing that clouds it is that false identity, that sense of self that we believe is real. We believe it so much that we get up early on a Sunday morning to come here to ask how we get out of it. How do I get out of this? How do I get out of this dream? It's like catching an angel, catching a giant. The door's wide open. So it's an undoing. And the invitation is to look for yourself. The Just a natural self.

It's the self that is aware. It's the one self that's expressing and appearing as everything. It's not a personal self, not a personal body, not a personal mind. You were saying that it's just a thought and it's constantly there, but it's not even constantly there. I Am. I Am. I am a person who is not aware of the reality of the world. I am a person who is not aware of the reality of the world. I have shifted from hearing all the different things, just shifted in perspective from me trying to get enlightened over there, different person over there. It was just like, well there's just here and then there are clouds come up, things obscure it, then it goes back down and what this is, what is here, and just gets covered over, you know.

It's not a different kind of, there's nothing here, trying to get to a different kind of thing over there. Yeah, yeah. Just, shoo. Clear blinkers, clear blinkers. I can remember on one occasion when I wasn't sitting here awake, let's say. And I can remember one occasion where I was so hooked into thoughts and I went so effect of all the thoughts that were going on that it was fucking horrifying. I was just overwhelmed, like completely overwhelmed. And then, for whatever reason, and I wasn't distracted either, but for whatever reason, all of a sudden, in like a split second, I forgot completely whatever it was that I was thinking about.

Like, it just went, right? It went and the first thing that I noticed was relief. There was absolute relief that came over the body. Like a drop. It was like, it was just gone. But then you know what the me did immediately after that? Fuck that thought was important. What was that? What was that? I've got to remember what that was again. Fuck, I can't forget that. That was important. I am a person who is not a person of the past. It's gonna get number one priority to protect the body. So everything, the hatred, self-hatred is very scary. Because it's suicidal, it can kill you.

I find sometimes these days the thought's quite happy just to stay forgotten. And that's quite nice to see because that's kind of a... Because I've always like constantly got a million thoughts coming up that I want to share before they get forgotten. Because there'll be some gem that saves somebody's life in there. I am very happy to be here And I was just like yeah the thought doesn care anymore that it gone Yeah but that a very good pointer to actually see what important And now if we kind of contemplate, look back at our life, we will see what's important. Those things will be really big, overwhelming, scary or...

And then have the courage to leave us nothing. That's what Nisargadatta says. Yeah. Fix or resolve? In the moment, in the moment, thoughts can be a big deal. Like, it really can. To the point of people can sometimes get suicidal around whatever it is that's going on in their head, you know. All these terms are important. I'm not sure if you've heard about the term, but it's a term that is used to describe people who have a lot of problems. It's a term that's used to describe people who are in a lot of trouble, or they can't cope to the point where they've just got to pour tons and tons of alcohol down their throat to try and anaesthetize it, or whatever drug.

Chick flicks. You know, rom-coms, romantic comedies, they're very kind of teenager based. Yeah, internet addicts, TV addicts, whatever. So it can seem really, really, really, really important. Like really important. Now, I'm sure, without a doubt, you could think back on your own life, where there's been moments in your life, I am a person who is not aware of the existence of the universe. It arises and then just drops away. But when we're in it, and it's just... Going back to that, this has just happened to me. I built this greenhouse in my house. It's a massive big one. It's about 14 metres long, but 7.5 metres wide.

And I used the PVC pipes to put the roof on. Now the first window we got, because we're a double-story house, I could see it from my bedroom, I could see it right there. I was stressing out badly, my thoughts were going, this thing is going to, the window is going to take it. I live on the main, on the corner of the main road, I said, this thing flows on the road, God knows how many cars it's going to block. Just thoughts, as you said. And I couldn't sleep all night. I could not sleep all night. Well, I guess, what is that you could do?

So I said, I worry about it. I said, what do you mean I worry about it? If this takes off, I'll make the news. But, as you said, you know, I tell you what, it didn't move. It was shaking, but it didn't flop off or anything. And, you know, it is, it is the thoughts. But at the time the thoughts were so real that I was stressing out badly. I couldn't sleep. And the thoughts may arise. And it's totally okay that thoughts arise. The problem is when we have preference around what arises. I don't want to be thinking that or things should be like this or...

It's when we have preference around... Thinker. There's a thinker thinking that. Yeah. Yeah. The idea of somebody here being affected by it. Somebody here being affected by it. And if you look really, really closely, that somebody that believes it's being affected by it There is no entity there, as in a me entity or an individual entity. There is not one there. There is not one there. There is not. There was no need really to worry about what was seen. But something told me that, yeah, oh yeah, this has happened to you now. And all of that is just dialogue or verbalized thoughts. That's all. That's all.

So you need to try and search behind the thoughts that are going on. Is there an entity behind the thoughts that are going on? Because after all we go, you know, my thoughts, I'm thinking them. Go looking for that. It's saying my thoughts, I'm thinking them. Go looking for that. Who or what is that? But Terry, isn't the thought just popping up? Yep. Completely. Spontaneously. Well, that's what I say to myself. There's nothing thought popping up. Totally spontaneously. I am not going to follow it. Let's see. I just take it off. And then going back to Kat before, she was saying, when you don't think of anything and take everything as it is, as it comes, and I've experienced that quite a lot of times, I get more done.

I've even said to my husband many times, I don't even get tired. And I think, gee, I haven't planned all this. It's all done and I feel good. The thoughts, whatever it is that's going on, whatever it is that's going on, we get into trouble with it when there's non-acceptance around it. Exactly. I fear, till now from time to time, I still do, in the dark. I feel like I sound like a child. And the other night, just the thought, I mean, one of the nights comes up that I can't sleep, gotta get up and meditate, so I get up. And then I was thinking of the dark and I had my door open, the bedroom door, because we've got a big foyer upstairs.

And then all of a sudden I thought, why am I fearing? It's just a thought. Let go of the thought It disappeared Because when that fear comes in noise is coming into it too It will make you more fearful When the thought I said it just a thought I not going to worry about it I Am the One who is the One Linaage terms. You're not saying it. If you had any control over it, then you'd just choose not to think for the next 20 years. Just choose not to. See, I've had a few times though, I've had my voice actually talking, I'm going, who's that?

Like, it comes to me, where's that voice come from? It's not from here. It doesn't sound, it's not me. Where has it come from? That thought that came up for you around being scared in the dark and fear that was going on, www.nisargad.com.au But you need to know for yourself. That entity there that believes it's either been affected by a scary thought or the dark or whatever, that's what you need to go looking for. First part is seeing all the thoughts that just come and go. Yes, I'm aware of that and it's investigation that I need to do the inquiry. Yeah, just a little closer now.

Yeah, I've started. Awesome. I'm sorry to interrupt but there was a lot of tension in the chat. As we were talking about what the And now, so each thing that pops up, that depersonalizes back to that, you just assume that's the background, you don't assume that there's always someone viewing, because that's just kind of a concept that we make up here, or in psychology, or wherever. Yeah, it's still going, still going. I didn't really make the decision to choose that for it. Really important to see that. It's so important to see that. You didn't decide it. You're just thinking of it now. Spontaneously just pops up, doesn't it?

But you think that you chose it like 100%. They come out of nowhere and they go back into nowhere. You can see the borderline happening as it happens. What memory of it just goes. Just like everything else, the sights, the sounds, feelings come up and go again. I am free will. I'm going to think this and then the thoughts appear in the end. There's no one there. You've become aware of it. You haven't chosen the thought. I've seen that now. I can see that now. That's great. When you're driving you didn't notice that's the truth of it. You didn't make a decision on every single bit that you did as you drove.

I can't drive so I can't really give you examples but I'm sure it seems like a good example. Pick a better analogy next time. He understands it. The one I'd like to say is that I'm not a fan of driving. I'm not a fan of driving. I'm not a fan of driving. I'm not a fan of driving. I'm not a fan of driving. I'm not a fan of driving. I'm not a fan of driving. Pick a better analogy next time. He understands it. When I drive I can tell it's a men's driving. Just joking. Yeah, and that's the truth of it really. It's not automatic, it's done on automatic.

Yeah, it's also clarity of everything that's happening just now rather than an automatic story going on as well. But the actual action of the driving was automatic, yeah, there was no choosing that. And then we just jump up with another extra thought, oh I chose that, or I planned that, or I have to plan that. Those are just other little thoughts and you start to see them just popping up, their little heads. And everything that happens for you, everything that you experience is all based on whatever thought process happens to be running through that screen of awareness at any given point in time. For example, a thought might pop up, oh God I'm a fuckwit,

The The sense of free will.

Where? Did you choose that thought on the fuck whip? Just an example. Like did you choose that? If you don't choose it, and it's just something that kind of floats through... I've asked this question before, why is it then if the thoughts just fly through, Isobhav Bada, Pt.2 Satsang with Mooji The difference around self drops away. So you see there's not being yours, basically. Alok Kat's explanation of things coming from, you know, something's got more power, can you give that one? Yeah, it's the way I sometimes heard myself explaining the idea of choice. It feels like there are two options and one option says, okay, I'll go here, another option this one.

And this, it comes with the feeling that now I have choice. And that feeling or idea that I have choice is actually a third one on top of it. But what is really happening on the screen of awareness, the option A has certain charge, emotional charge or charge with the life essence. It's like a thought formation. It has some essence in it. And the thought B, the option B, also has some charge. Like let's say I have the thought to go for a party or stay home and wash the windows. And now they will have different kind of weight, different charge to it. Life will charge them differently.

And they may happen different throughout the day. I may be moving towards this one at some point and then towards that one. But really what is going on is just the thought comes already with certain, like a balloon with certain amount of air. So if that balloon is bigger and stronger, that will take the course. That thought will make you move. And that one will kind of not be chosen, so called, but it's not a matter of choice. So, for example, if I ask you, would you like a cup of tea or a cup of coffee? Yes. Now, in your mind, or whatever, you're going to answer one or the other.

That's right. Okay, they said, we just said there that there is no free will. Yep. Okay, so what happens in that case? He decides then. Easy. He's bad at doing things. There's a billion things doing. It would just, either coffee or tea, whatever the choice was, would just arise spontaneously. Bang. But see how it is already more appealing. Like, you know, if I am a tea drinker, that idea of having a tea will be more appealing, which means we'll be more charged by life. Yes. The idea will be having more meaning and will be more appealing. So that being appealing is kind of, it gets more attention, like everything is fueled by light, awareness, attention, whatever you want to call it.

So the idea of the tea is already, because of the conditioning of the pattern, is already more appealing, it kind of looks better. And probably I will choose coffee, but anyway, it's just an example. So who is making a choice? You have idea of tea and idea of coffee. And then idea of tea is more charged than idea of coffee, so it will take course. It's all the molecules too, like, you know, probably there'll be some salivation might occur on one of the choices and not the other, you know. This stomach might have a reaction going on when it hears the word somehow that goes through your head, you know.

So in other words, it's not a decision that anybody makes, it pops up according to the condition of the body, is that what you're saying? Yes, I can answer something on these. We used to have two big dogs and we were on one and a half acre. Anyway, we've got half acre closed and I wanted these dogs to go on the other side because some voters come in here and I didn't want to, you know, the dogs be out. I couldn't get these two dogs in there. All the sudden I thought, dang, what am I going to do now? I was walking and I saw a huge dog.

They don't bark. They're singing. Yes. Anyway, we've got a gate. I thought I'll just go back in. All of a sudden as I was walking there's a bone on the ground. Suddenly a thought came up, get the bone, throw it in there and the dogs will go in. I was told that I should try it. That thought came in, went back, got the bone, threw it in there, they both killed each other to go back in. Now in that case, I tried and it didn't work. And then that thought, just the thought that came in, because you knew that that would work. That how it works Yes that how it works They come up and that how decisions happen So then you got to recognize because I kept walking I went past but then somebody stopped and said hang on that the one You didn't have to recognize it because that thought was already charged.

It was already like 100 volts in that thought. So it was already visible on the background of other thoughts. Okay, another thing I've realized, okay, that makes sense, another thing I've realized that now when I'm doing something, the command has come before I actually, just before I actually do it. Yeah, yeah. So, not instantaneously the command is there and I'm doing it. Command is coming and then, yeah, I'm going to do it. It feels this way, but actually if you look at the brain and if you look at the science, it happens exactly the opposite. The decision is made to do something before the commentary appears to do something.

And if there is a tendency to procrastinate, then yeah, because I like that too. I get whatever, I get a call for work or something, I don't answer the phone, I wait five minutes, they will send me an email, I wait another five minutes and then I answer. That's just the conditioning. I am a meditator and I have a bottle of water because I drink continuously. I am meditating and I don't want to break it. I am just deep in the inquiry or whatever. The thought comes, have a drink. I am going, no, I am not going to have a drink. I am just going to stay with this.

It keeps haunting me. Then it is like I am getting thirsty. So you are better off just having a drink. I do. I do. So then I will have a drink and it stops. So, even though you can't fight it then, in the cases like that. Resistance is disease. Yeah, that's the fight. The fight is the resistance around it. There's the fight. And it's not even decision, that's a bit of a myth really. Like in the experiment she's talking about, the action is already happening through the body, and then the chatter comes. So we don't really exactly know, because we don't know anything really. There's some kind of package of stuff goes down and an action takes place in the middle of it.

So really when they wired up the brain to see when they notice the thoughts happened, the body had already started to move to do that activity. So there's probably not even a decision anywhere in all of that. There's just one molecule goes there and that one gets there faster and all these taste buds go and these other things go up. The You see the lemon and the body starts salivating and then the thought comes, oh, I will have a lemon drink. The body is already producing saliva and the thought comes, oh, I will have lemon drink. Or whatever, you decide that, oh, okay, I'm sitting in front of the computer, I'll go up and stretch.

And then that thought comes, but that thought comes few seconds after, the heart already started pumping a little bit faster, the oxygen intake already increased, So the thought is only a commentary on what the body has already prepared for. Okay, yep, yep, yep. We watch the show and then once the... Is it only a reaction to the thought though? It is also, it is happening both ways. But on a very subtle level the neurons are firing before the thought appears. So the first is the chemical decision here in the brain, then the commentary translation into a thought appears, and then action appears. But also, of course, if someone told you you're worthless, you're gonna feel bad when you hear the word.

If you say like you take the consciousness, mind, whatever, out of the body, the body doesn't care, does it? If you take the what? Say, if you take the thought, the consciousness, the mind, whatever, away from the body, take this... When you kill the body, you mean? Always, yeah, exactly, that's my point, that the body doesn't care, does it? I mean... No, no, the body doesn't care. Is it not the thought first that causes the reaction in the body? No, no, no, no, it's totally not the body. If you kill the body, the body can't see, can't hear, can't think, can't do anything at all.

So it is a consciousness that is doing everything, but it expresses through the body. Like the seeing is happening through the eyes. If someone is blind, they can't see, even they're still conscious, but they don't have eyes, so they can't see. And same with thinking. People who have brain damage, they may be beating their heart, they may be alive, but they can't... Ultimately this is a paradox because now we could start thinking what was first, was the consciousness creating the body for itself for experiencing, or was the body born and the consciousness developed? No, it happens at the same time because everything is just happening in this moment.

So yes, the consciousness expresses through the body and as the body. So because there is only one, we can't say that our body is dead, a consciousness is alive, because that's two. I agree, I understand that. It's more like, the way I sort of think is you learn the faults through whatever and the faults cause the problems. And you are, you do have free will to the fault, you choose the most relevant fault or the one you feel is most suitable for the situation or whatever, but without the faults there isn't any kind of issue, is there? The reactions are from the thoughts. Bob will answer it.

Bob will you answer it? There's no thought stored in your head. Every thought is present here. That's the instrument. Your body is just the instrument that is always present in life. It's that life essence expressing, utilizing the body, the mind and everything else. What's your next thought going to be? Well I was just thinking, I didn't have any problems. I am not in thinking At least I am giving myself headaches with thinking That why am just seeing the thoughts as not the problem it is how I react to them That is what I mean, it is the reaction to the thoughts, whether it is in the body, wherever it is.

Most of the thoughts have been learned through someone else. They are not even, as you know, going along those lines, they are not lying. But I do believe there is some kind of free will. You sort of steady the mind a little bit, you can sort of see where they rise and they do come from somewhere. My theory is completely wrong, they do come from somewhere, it's just we don't see where they come from. It may have come from ten years ago, it may have come from someone, something said that's upset but I didn't realise it until something else triggered it. What do I know it's supposed to know?

Is it like a little man with a head doing all that? I'll give you an example. I've been going deep into an issue I had with someone. It reminded me of a lot of thoughts I'd forgotten. When I was thinking about a certain issue, it was reminding me of things that were happening when I was seven, six, you know, way back. And I think, wow, I've never thought about that since. But it's all there, somewhere. But isn't it just thoughts triggering thoughts? Activity triggering activity. It doesn't have to be you doing it. Well, no, it's because I'm sort of going after a certain thought, it's triggering, reminding me of all these other thoughts that I've never thought of since.

It could be like computer gateways just triggering each other. They are triggering each other, yeah. They are triggering each other, definitely. But that's the problem, it's the thoughts again. No, the problem is you believe that there's someone there being affected by it. That's the problem. It's not the thoughts, it's not the when I was six or seven or ten or whatever, it's none of that. The problem is you believe that there's somebody here that's being affected by all that. You believe there's somebody there. Yeah, well it's more for me, yeah you're probably right, but it's more for me, a lot of this stuff I have didn't even remember it was there, but it was.

It conditions us and it makes us act in certain ways. But my point is, because we're not aware of it, we don't know why we're doing it. But it's there, you know, and we're reacting to it. And it really became clear. So, well, you know, this is why I've got certain attitudes, certain dislikes. Because I learnt them. Correct. Bob has something to say. How many thoughts can a corpse have? Dead body, yeah. It's all in the life essence. There's no life going on, there's no thoughts or anything. The body is just a pattern through which it expresses. But the concept, the idea is about the mind.

That life essence is doing everything. We talk of the brain, the eyes and everything else, the brain can't do anything at all without that life essence. Neither can the heart or the lungs or anything at all. So it's all in that life. And it's what Christ tells you, I am the way, I am the truth, I am the life. He wasn't talking about himself. He was talking about that sense of presence as the life that's expressing through those patterns. And you are that. Life. Well, is, in this case, is life predetermined or it just happens from the start? It just keeps happening from the start?

Is there a pattern for each one like a... It's spontaneous. From the start, from birth? Before birth, it's all spontaneous. Yeah, yeah, that's what I'm saying. It's just, there's nothing predetermined at all. No, time's a mental concept when you investigate it. So that's what is only being, there's no becoming. Becoming implies time. You can't negate your beingness right now, your existence. So, I'm sorry, I'm probably a little bit away from this. So is there rebirth? Is there rebirth? I know there's no birth, but people say, oh another life, I was this, I was that. Is there such a thing as rebirth? No. What was born?

What was born? There was no birth. The thought I am was born at about two, two and a half. A little child doesn't know anything about being born. You can't remember your birth. That was born, the thinking was born. The self-identity is not born. Yeah, that's right. That's not born. So it's not born. That's why Behnke was able to say everything is perfectly resolved in the unborn mind. And that which is not nature resolving itself, there's no mind out there in nature saying it's daylight now, soon it'll be dark, or rolling the earth around the sun, turning the tide to right. It's all spontaneously functioning.

It's constantly reborn, like it's just happening now, refreshing, refreshing, new stuff coming up all the time. Is this concept of self reborn? That's what we're talking about. We worry about the self-imagined, or the imagined self being, what's going to happen to that? That's dead anyway if you see it. Because one will lead to the other. So what happens in the case where they've documented kids, young kids, 5, 6, 10, they remember past life they say and they even take them back there and they, you know, family they recognise. So what happens in that case? What was actually going on in that case then? This is imaginary or real as this chair.

So in terms of it's not identifying, there is none of it. In terms of what really goes on, we don't know what goes on in China. But why is it that the child remembers something Yeah there are a lot of different things happening in the dream There are UFOs there are people walking on the water there are a lot of things This is a dream It all part of the interior It not a second dream Yes, it's a dream. There is nothing impossible in the dream. It's just continuous, the whole thing. Rather than rebirth, start and stop, it's just continuous. Do you know what I mean?

You know that they can remember this and they can remember that because it never ended in the first place or started? Now like, if you use the word rebuff, to me it suggests a start and a finish, right? Yes. So if this child remembers this or remembers that, is it because it's just a continuous consciousness all the time? But there is an assumption, there is an assumption that there is an entity that is being reborn, and that's actually incorrect, Because the child or the elderly person that died had an ego or something and now this ego is travelling to another body. This is not the case.

If there is a stream of memory going through the mouth of a young child, it doesn't mean that there is an entity that travelled from body to body. It's just a stream of thinking, a stream of memory. Like for some reason if the thinking was still very charged in the moment of dying, Then that stream of thinking may be expressing through another radio, through another microphone. But it doesn't mean that there is a soul or ego or entity that traveled from body to body. Because the soul or ego or entity is a fiction. It's a construction made of thoughts. And it doesn't have to be believed.

But it doesn't mean that one radio cannot transmit the wave from another radio or whatever. It's just the impersonal. Every thought is impersonal. Every thought is like a mental image or a story. And of course a lot of thoughts will be about this body or this life or this event. But really just because they happen to be tuned into this sort of a transmitter-receiver. But they aren't personal. That's the best description I've heard of that so far. There was an Australian guy, I've seen him on YouTube, and they asked the same question about rebirth. And he said, no, there's no rebirth, but there's reoccurrence. Oh, that was very long.

Very long. He's Australian. I was. I was. There's a life essence. There's a beingness. There's a consciousness. There's an awareness. Okay? All just words, but I'm doing the best I can to try and point. I was going to say, me neither. All those words that I've just used, you are that. But I am that too. And you are that. And everybody in this room is that one thing. It's not yours, and it's not yours, and it's not mine. So that life essence, if you like, is constantly... I mean it's always there, but if we're talking about a human being, It's constantly coming into being through other newborns that are born.

And that's what we're pointing at. That is what we are. I'm not talking about the baby. I'm talking about that presence, that oneness. My presence and my awareness and my consciousness is absolutely no different to yours. It's identical. It's one and the same thing. It's the same thing. So, what you imagine should be reborn or hung onto or whatever is only just occurring in the memory. It's not even your memory, it's just memory. What just came out of you then was profound, was beautiful. There is another aspect which is probably worthy of acknowledging because, see, we always want to have explanation of the mystery of life.

We want to have a simple solution. This is like this, this is like that. Heaven, hell, reincarnation. We want to fix something that is constantly changing, that is alive, that is fluid, that is liquid, that is mysterious. It's actually, this is a great invitation to, when you stumble upon something that is difficult to fit into a particular drawer of your understanding in the organising, translating equipment that is the brain, Just stay with, I have no idea, amazing, I don't know, I don't care. Because there is so many things that people like scientists have attempted to explain just to kill the mystery of it. But labeling something is not explaining it.

Labeling how the tree grows and naming different part of the leaf doesn't explain life. Labelling how they are, naming the physics of whatever laws of nature, whatever, doesn't explain them. They are beyond the conceptual understanding. They are the mystery. And you are that mystery yourself. It's actually really good to get comfortable with having no answer. The story that struck home for me was, someone had one story about when they astro-travelled, you know, you had all these other beings and then said, Oh yeah, over there, that is the enlightened one, so basically you still have to draw the separate self sense, you know, no matter what realm or what alien you are, somewhere along the line you've got to be like the tree.

And Bob is just tapping me that we are 15 minutes over time. So, yeah, look at this foxy smile. Thank you everyone!