Sailor Bob - Non Duality in Melbourne

Do you want to run through again? You all know what it's about, non-duality is the label we put on it. One without a second, not two. And it's the base of all the great traditions if you look into them. So it's nothing new we're pointing to. What we say is start with the fact that you are already that. That's the Mahavakya or the great mantra or the great word, I am that. Now this is that, everything is that. Put another way, that is everything. And we know that in our language because that's the chair, that's the carpet. That's the mirror, that's the wall, that's the house, that's the garden outside.

We know everything is that which we put labels or words. Now understand the word's not the real, not the thing. You can't drink the word water, you can't swim in the word water, you can't swim in the word water, you can't swim in the word water, you can't drown in the word water. The word fire doesn't burn your mouth. So this word, I or me, is that what you really are? When you look into that you realise you can get on very well without it. Without that label, without that word. Everything is made up of labels or concepts. And realise you weren't born with any words.

Every word you've ever spoken or ever likely to speak has been picked up along the way. It's been acquired. We've learnt words and you're probably still learning words today, to this day. Because you don't know every word that's in the dictionary. So you might learn new meaning some words or new words. So we need to understand and I'll all point this out. As Shakespeare told you, there's nothing either good or bad but thinking makes it so. De Sagetata will tell you nothing can trouble you except your own imagination. Break that word. Break that word imagination down to image in. And recognise that's all we're ever doing is imagining or making mental images about things.

And taking the images to be real to the actual. But if no word or image is the actual, where does it leave you? Well can you negate your beingness? Can you say I'm not? Nobody sitting here can say I am not. Each one of us knows I am. That's the basic label we've put upon it. But what I am is, unless you put a concept on which we do, that it's a person or it's an entity or whatever, it's just another word that's describing the beings. And that's what they point to. Sat Shet Ananda. Being, knowing, loving to be, existence, consciousness, bliss. No I'm a rupa.

The other two factors are the five. The nama rupa is the name and form. Now the name and the form are fiction. They're just the labels we put on things. The shape and the label we put on it. And the name and form. What do they call wire or illusion? So all these words which you've learnt and ones you haven't learnt are illusionary. They're not the actuality. They're not the thing. So what are you? Are you without the word? Can you negate your beingness? Then can you say I am not? Well you can't say anything without the word. But you are. There's nobody in this room who is not being right now, if you try to describe it.

And that, no one, who's not loving to be. Everyone else are loving to be. We want to be. We don't want to be dead right now. So you are that Sat Shet Ananda. You are that being. Knowings or awareness. And happiness to be. And the Nama and Rupa are still appearing. Because we've learnt to reason. We've learnt to use words. And the word being not the thing. That's how we communicate with words, with labels. We just call it thought free ever fresh presence awareness. Be without thought. What's wrong with right now if you don't think about it? Ask yourself that question. What have you got to do to find out?

What have you got to do to find that out? To recognise it, to find it out. Isn't it necessary to stop a thought for a moment? Or look beyond a thought? To see what's there prior to the thought? And realise you can't say anything at all if you're not thinking about it. What's not rising in the mind is the thought. So you see the thought, feeling and emotion are one and the same thing. Three aspects of the one thing. You can't... Just like steam, water and ice, the three aspects of H2O. When it's steam, it's very subtle. When it becomes water, it's less subtle. When it becomes ice, it's seemingly solid.

So when you see thought, you can't burst into tears right now. The thought will be there for a while. Then the sensation or feeling will come up. It'll be sadness or fear or something like that. And then the emotion will come and the tears will start. So we're all thought-based. This whole manifestation to us is based on thoughts, ideas, concepts. And I need to recognise this and see that this thing we call mind... Mind is just another concept. Because it can even show me a thing called mind. And you look at it and you'll see that it's saying, my mind. But don't you say, my body?

And you know you're not the body. Because what's the body made up of? The body's made up of elements. Air, earth, fire, water, space. And then you separate yourself from those elements. Stop breathing, see how long you'd last without the air. Stop drinking water, see how long you'd last without taking any water. Your body's 80% water. The body temperature, the fire. You'd get hypothermia. So you're not separate from those elements at all. And what are the elements? Well, you realise all these elements can be broken down into subatomic particles, into pure energy. So all the manifestation is nothing but a vibrating pattern of energy. What we call energy.

Again, a label. And they use the term intelligence energy, I use that term anyway, to describe the totality. Intelligence is knowing, not your intellect. We all think we are this intellect, but there are different sorts of intellect in this room right now. Some of you are superior to what my intellect will be, some of you mightn't be quite so good. But when I talk about intelligence, I'm saying look out there in nature and see how nature is manifesting or expressing. Day and night, winter, summer, high and low, all the rest of it, all the stars, planets and everything like that, are in this manifestation. All vibrating patterns of energy.

But the way they're vibrating, the way they're patented, doesn't that imply they're suffused with an innate and wondrous intelligence? To enable this earth to be as it is, with all the amazing things on it. Doesn't it imply it must be suffused with an innate intelligence? This body with all the veins, nerves, sinews and everything else, doesn't that imply it's suffused with an innate intelligence? Everything is what I call intelligence energy. Intelligence is knowing. Another label for it. Anyone who's not knowing right now, and you realize, no, I'm knowing. You know for a fact you are knowing. Well what is knowing? Is it the entity, is it the belief, or is it the intelligence itself that's reorganizing itself as a knowingness, as a consciousness, as an awareness?

Different labels you put on it. So you can't negate that. Knowingness, which translates and expresses through the mind as the thought I am. That's the primary thought, is the thought I am. It's just an expression of that intelligence energy, the activity of knowing. Because any intelligence or energy is an activity. And the intelligence that's suffusing it, the knowing, that applies in that activity of knowing is intelligence energy. It's the activity of knowing. And that's all that's going on, is that activity of knowing. And everything appears, plays around, and disappears in that activity. Constantly transient, that's what they tell you again in the scriptures, manifestation is transient.

Transient means it's constantly changing. There's no static point to it anywhere. If you look and see, see if you can find a static point to yourself or anything else in this manifestation that had a substantial or solid beginning, you can't find it has a static point at all. It's always in vibration. If there's no static point, where does that leave you? Right with this immediacy, right with this activity of knowing. And that's what we all are, and that's what we need to recognize. Anyone who's not knowing right now, realize no. Or unaware, put it as unaware. Anyone who's unaware right now, no. You'll know I am aware.

But you don't know what awareness is. You've got to put some label on it, or some pattern, shape, and form on it. But if you see that you're not unaware right now, you must realize it's there immediately. What it is, you can't give it an adequate description. And understand that any description, is not the described. A description can never be the described. What we're trying to describe right now, it's not a description. And it never will be. The word's not the real, the description's not the described. The map is not the territory. They're all different ways of pointing out. You know, you've got your own way, it'll tell you where Burke Road and Whitehorse Road is, but the map is not the thing.

It's not the territory. It's a good pointer. So we've been led to believe, and we've taken on board that we are these individuals, these persons, these separate entities. We reinforce it constantly every day. When we went to school, our teachers and everybody around it reinforced it for us. It's been reinforced along the way. And we never ever bothered to question it until you come across it. Something moves you to have a look a bit deeper, then you might start questioning it. And because of the habit pattern, 99.9% of the world are coming from that idea of a self-centred, a reference point. So when you're able to talk to them, they can point you in the right direction.

But there have been people down through the ages that pointed you in. And if you move to do so, to question what you believe you are, something will resonate within you and take you further along the way. It'll lead you to where you've got to go. And that's basically what we ask you to do, to see for yourself. Nobody's ever going to do it for you. And you can all get into it now. That's enough for me. You've all heard it before anyway. Anything else to elaborate on, we might elaborate on as we go through it. Not the body, nor are you the mind. The body and mind are two labels you put upon this pattern, this vibrating pattern of energy.

You know you're not the body, you call it my body. And don't you say my house, my car, my hat, my shoes. You know you're not the house or the car, the hat or the shoes. Maybe you're not the body either. When you say my mind, again you say my car or my house. Maybe you're not the mind either. If you said I mind, you'd be closer to it. Or I body, I am. That sense of presence that expresses through the mind as this pattern we call the body. I like that, I mind. Yeah, if you say, if I don't mind, you're not minding. When you say I mind, you're taking it on board too.

It's two ways of looking at it. It's all thought up. Yeah, it's almost as if the computer would say I microphone. And that's what we don't see when we take this body mind to be the self, the personal self. It's the one self. The self appearing and expressing through everything. I is the label we put upon that self. It is self aware, self knowing, self hearing, self seeing, self tasting. But we've taken on the idea and concept as a personal self. And that's where we've isolated ourselves from the totality. And the idea that there's an individual, a person, a separate entity. An ego, self-centered, a reference mind.

All the different labels you put on it. And you're always relating to that ego. The self-centered is the only problem you'll ever have. Relating to a conceptual image, an ego that you take to be real. No wonder you can never find it. So all our problems are problems of relationship. Relative to. That's relationship relative to something. That's relative to this conceptual image we've got. What if you're not relating to anything? You're seeing everything as it is. Leaving it as it is. Unaltered, unmodified, uncorrected. Seeing what happened then. The conceptual image seems to play out in your behavior. Now is that just an illusion? Yeah. It's an illusion.

As you say, it seems to. What do we say what the manifestation was? Maya or a phenomenal manifestation. And your definition of phenomena, that which appears to be or seems to be so. So it all seems to be so. But when you investigate it, see if the seeming, apparent seeming is real. And when you investigate the so-called believed in ego, see if there's anything there with any solidity or any substance or any independent nature at all. We've got the concept that there's an I or a me relating to that concept, which is the cause of all things. All our psychological suffering, your fear, your anxiety, your stress, your guilt, your unhappiness, your jealousy, your envy, jealousy, envy.

All because we're relating to this conceptual image. Our concept is a mental construct. And as we said, image before is just like a reflection in the mirror. The label for them is images in the mirror. We've got reflections coming up in the so-called mind, concepts, or images. Nothing can trouble you excepting our imagination. And we take the images to be real. Well the conceptual image, it really exists just in memory, doesn't it? Yep. So isn't that some sort of existence? Well, when? I don't know what to say. Yeah, how about when you don't think about it? Yeah. That's the ultimate test. Yes. And that always takes you back to the truth.

So when you look at it closely, you'll see there's no such thing as mind, not a conceptual concept. Thoughts don't exist. Yeah, that's my point, I guess. So there's still an energy. But those thoughts, they're my thoughts, and I'm thinking those thoughts. Yes. Thoughts just arise. Yeah. Like the sun does. Mm. And sets. And your heart beats and your hair grows. Thoughts just arise. And you see thought as energy? Yeah. It's only a vibration. Yeah. That's all a vibration is. The problem is there's a me here. Yes. The thoughts just do that. There's a me here. Yeah, no, I've seen I exist inside the thoughts.

Like it's constructed in there, if you like. Yeah. And what it, and exactly what it does is creates the idea of a me being here. Yes. And it's really, really, it can be really, really difficult to see through that. Mm. Because the reality is you are there. Yeah. There's no ifs or buts about it. Yeah. There's a presence there and there's an awareness there. You actually are there. Yes. Okay. So when we say, um, the me doesn't exist, it's a phantom. It's really difficult to, to get that and see that because I'm still here. There's still the sense of me being here. So the problem is that, that, uh, that me identity, it identifies with the presence.

Yes. It identifies with the presence. Yeah. And then the me takes ownership of the presence. Mm. Yes. Yeah, I hear you saying that I'm not here, but I'm here. Yeah. Yeah. Um, now that, that meanness, or that ego, or those thought patterns, or, or whatever you want to call them, can be completely absent and you're still here. Yes. Yeah. Yeah. No, I get that. I do. Yeah. Mm. You know, one of, if it gets played and it's okay, you know, that's, that's just how that, that, that oneness, that, that intelligence, energy manifests and, and, and all the thoughts are coming from that manifesting from that just like everything else.

Yeah. Like it must be a learned protection mechanism I guess somewhere else happened, is it? Like. Learned protection mechanism for who? Well the me, you know, and the me you're not gonna protect me, you're gonna look out for out for me yeah yeah yeah of course you've been conditioned to believe that everyone has it's a condition to believe yeah separate yeah and if you don't think i'm separate there's no separation yeah yeah or there's no differentiation between all the things is that what we tend to do is we tend to sit in we tend to sit in our meanness yes yeah it's me sitting over here and you're sitting over there we sit there we sit there in our meanness then sit there in your meanness just sit there in your beingness in that presence yes the sense that the presence translates as the thought i had yeah all right anywhere you can go because the me comes and goes yeah it's opinion of itself yeah yeah it does it's opinion of itself changes and you know yeah sometimes it's there sometimes it's not there you know when you're out and about walking i don't know through a forest you know you could be awestruck at different things that you're witnessing and different things that you're seeing and generally in those moments and he's absent yes it's totally just not there just so there's just total appreciation for what is and you can only do that presently me steps in me steps in clouds the presence all the time just totally you're involved in a task or something you're just there doing it and yeah yeah but it comes and yeah yeah yeah that's everyone's experience isn't it that everyone says oh i am that sense of presence transmits but how many presences are there yeah there's only one expression bob but who was it that said it to be or not to be shakespeare shakespeare sorry yeah um to be or not to be that is the question yeah that i need to be or not to be that's the answer yes it's a strange thing this this self-identity and how it gets created and how it functions out there in the world and everyone's feeling separate and isolated and we're all conditioned to strive for and reach for and grab for things and everyone's just trying to become always in a constant state of becoming yes whether that's becoming a better husband a better wife better at my job a better father a better son you know better able to just cope in the world you know focusing attention on fixing myself so that sometime in the future i'll feel better that's what that's that's that's the functioning that's how it all that's how it all you know that's how it all happens and and you're asked to you're asked a really strange question the bottom line the bottom line of the question is do you exist who are you like who are you i'm me i'm winning who am i what are you talking about i'm terry i'm sitting here and on the body and the sensations that go on in the body and on all my thoughts and nobody questions that nobody nobody out there in the world even bothers to inquire into that so everyone's running on the illusion that there is something here that there is a me here and you come here and you start to question it can really initially it can it can become really quite confusing absolutely really quite confusing but you just keep investigating and investigating um and we we assume so many things to be true to be absolutely true without inquiring into the the actual fact as to whether they are really true example you're sitting over there i'm sitting here okay this is not a trick question are you whilst you're sitting there fully fully can you see with absolute clarity the body that's sitting opposite you here you can look at see the image of it yeah look at my feet keep your eyes on my feet don't move your eyes off my feet where's my head going yeah look at my head no that's right where am i going now look at look at my right eye where's my left eye going yeah like we think we see with such clarity and we don't we actually don't when you investigate it when you really have a look at it you know i could say you know look at the right hand side of my pupil where does the left hand side of my pupil go yeah you're not looking at it so it gets really really really finite you know and in so all there is is this peripheral attention there's peripheral vision and it's really quite blurred yeah yeah no it is all of the peripheral vision is really yeah i mean like i think physically your retina the senses are all concentrated around the center so so my point was my original question was can you see me with absolute clarity and our automatic response is yes and we don't it's just an example you know when you actually really investigate this is just about investigating you know um is there a me here of course there's a me here then you get asked to produce it give it to me show it to me like what is it where is it you try and investigate where's the center of it like where does that me exist in here where is it and you go looking for it after a while you get to see that your whole me is only based on the thinking that's going on, just the thought patterns that are going on, which we've been conditioned to have.

So there's just thoughts coming up. When we come here and initially we get to see, through being pointed, that thoughts just come and go, they arise. There seems to be a me here that gets affected by those thoughts. I just can't get these thoughts out of my head. I'm driving myself crazy, for example. So those thoughts will just arise. And even in basic form of meditation, when you first get into meditation, and I'm not talking about guided meditation, focus your attention on your toe and your next toe and so on, but when you finally get to the point of just sit there and observe. You'll see the thoughts coming and going.

It's about trying to create a little bit of space. Yeah. Yeah. So that there's an observation of the thoughts. That does do that. Arising and falling away. Yeah. As opposed to being the thoughts. Yeah. Like being it just engulfs us, and we become whatever it is that those thoughts are. And we come here and after a while we sort of, and we're asked, you know, are you choosing this? Of course I'm choosing it. Sort of an absurd question is that. Who else is going to be responsible for the thoughts that are going on here if not me? So that can be a struggle, you know, initially.

But that's really, really easy. So easy to put to the test. You know, if I'm responsible for all the stuff that's going on in my mind, Bob often says it, you know, I'm responsible for the stuff that's going on. All the thoughts that are going on here. Why would I have a bad thought? Yeah, exactly. Why would I think miserable thoughts? Why would I have self-critical thoughts about myself? Why would I be critical of others? So then you go to the next little, okay, if I'm responsible for all these thoughts, I should be able to just switch them off. Just literally switch it off. After all, I'm in charge of it and I'm responsible for it.

That's a real eye-opener. That's a game changer when one actually sees that. Because what's also tied into that is will. Yes. Self-will or free will is tied in with that. If I have free will, I should be able to turn that off. If I really have free will, I should be able to live any life I want to live. No holds barred. If I want to be a millionaire, I should just be able to walk out there and create it. I have free will. If I have free will, I should be able to change people around me. Why not? I've got free will. It doesn't happen.

It doesn't happen that way. But that needs to be seen. Yes. Then you start to see, okay, so I don't have any control over the thought processes that come up. I thought there was free will in there. I thought there was free will. I thought I was choosing. I thought I was able to stop things and make things happen or whatever. Then at that point, once you get to that point, that's when a realization dawns on you that, okay, thoughts come and go. I see that I can't turn it off and it's just happening. Yet, I'm still here. I'm still here. What's being affected by all that?

What is it that's even now become aware that I have no free will? What is it that's now become aware of that? That's when the rubber meets the road. That's where it can get really weird. So you're not the thoughts. You're the observer of the thought. Well, observer is the wrong word, I guess, but yeah. Sure. No. But before we get, sure. No, it's always the thoughts. It's always hard to say. Before one gets to that realization, before one gets there, yes, you're correct. But before one gets there, there's still a sense of a me being here. There's still a sense of a me being present.

What we don't realize is that we'll be sitting here, eyes closed, eyes open. It doesn't really make much difference. There'll be thoughts coming and going. There'll be thoughts coming and going. There'll be thoughts coming and going. And then there's me there saying, look, I know none of this is real. One day I'm going to, I don't know, one day I'm going to become enlightened or one day I'm going to see and one day I'm going to get clarity or whatever. The difficult part to see is that that's doing the talking about the content of the thoughts that are being witnessed is also in the content.

Yes. That's really hard to see. It's really hard to see. The reason it's hard to see is what I was pointing out before. That self-identity, that me, it attaches itself to this presence. That that's actually viewing the thoughts coming and going is that awareness. But the me thinks it's that. Yes. Like, yeah, I can see the thoughts. I can see the thoughts coming and going. Yeah, yeah, I know. There's actually no me there seeing the thoughts coming and going at all. Yeah, it's another construction. Yeah. So that can be a little tricky to kind of see. But any thought that is arising in here in regards to whatever it is that's going on in here or whatever it is that's going on out there.

Any thought that arises is also in the content of those thoughts that just spontaneously arise. Yeah. It's like anything that's on the stage is content, isn't it? Yeah. And if it really had any power, if it really had any power, it would just be able to go, you know what, I'm just going to wake up now and be enlightened. If it was that simple, wouldn't it? That would be great. So. That seems to be like a real tipping point and a real struggle to see that that self-identity is nothing but thoughts that are coming up that are saying, yeah, but I'm still here. I see this.

I understand what Bob's saying. I understand what's going on. I understand. I've been coming here forever and I understand. Yet I still feel like I'm here. Yeah. I understand. I feel like I'm here forever. Yeah. You're still here. Yeah. The answer to that is, yeah, you are. The problem is it's a made concept that's identifying with their presence. So initially, you identify with the content of thought and it was identifying with the presence, but had no real clue that that's what it was identifying with. Because what it was more interested in was the content of thinking. Everyone's maybe is more interested in that. Yeah. Awareness.

Look, what do you mean? Just you take it for granted. Being aware and being able to see, hear, taste, touch, smell. Just totally take that for granted. So it's the seeing. This is the real seeing. When Bob talks about is there actually a me there? What substance does it have? Is there actually one there? And to see that even that that is saying I can see the thoughts. I know I'm not that. Even that that is saying I know I'm now not the body. That that's saying that is also just a thought that arises. That just spontaneously arises. So this me, the idea of me just spontaneously arises of itself.

Right? Like a cloud floats through the sky. Just there. Just spontaneously becomes a cloud. So the whole idea of a me that which is just purely based on thought, sound, language. That's all it is like Bob was saying. It's just a description. It's not the actual. It's absolutely not the actual. It's just thoughts. And thoughts are just kind of pointers. Really. Just ideas. That you know that thought or that sound to a word means something such. So you've got all that. All that that's going on internally. And yet this still feels like there's a me sitting here. You sitting there. But it's not me sitting there.

So even with the pause the thought. There's nothing happening. There's nothing happening. But there still seems to be a sense of a me there. That's right. Because the me believes it's pausing the thought. Yes. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. But what's wrong with right now if you don't think about it? That's also a pointer. You can't not think about it. It's just a pointer. Not the same as a pointer that I use. If I was able to create amnesia in you and wipe out your memory. It's just a pointer. Wipe out your memory.

Where would you may be? Yeah. It's not a reference point. It's all past experience. And bring that into the present. And believe that's me. Yeah. No, it is memory. Totally. Yeah. totally just memory only yep so that even that pause a thought be careful it's not a me there yeah believing it can pause a thought yeah just means in the absence of the thought there's a gap and in the absence of that of any thoughts there's no me present yet there's presence you still are you're still sitting there there's presence whiteness the hard thing to see Robin the hard thing to see is this final bit we just want them no I know what you're talking about yeah so the inquiry needs to be deeper you need to see that there's still a belief in an idea of a me here it's causing a fool no I know that's that's problem is obscene that yeah okay good so if you've seen that does your me have a lot of thoughts do you have a lot of thoughts about your me now and does it have a place in your car the more people you talk to you the more times you sense it you learn something you learn your skills after you meet you do in your car why do you buy a Taurus for me because you say you'll buy me a Taurus you do you'll buy me a Taurus if that mouse is there seems to range fromận a ratatouille no but also bridal likeness non-rhoids that is there's nothing no in that upon putting on a current facet I don't know something about it I just don't know anything about 13 or 14 and there's not a response to my question got me so I went back to market wanted me to point out something did you guys find that there was something I'm never sure with that requirements and or e-mail någonting about me t hybrid with anyone broke in the not absolutely nothing not so what is it I please to ask you what is your name what is your name what is it those we go back to conceptual ideas thoughts from your memory or blood that's not much more is now in the directness now I what what you actually what you actually know the city you know what I'd say in your day to day life as you when you're not here when you're out and about doing things you shouldn't be is the sense of me present honestly most of the time not you and sometimes it feels like some of the reason what's the difference what it's when you are so perplexing so yourself listening to your thoughts on this question is it the me that's listening to the thoughts not so what's listening to the thoughts it's just on the way thoughts is there a listener not just spontaneous it all happens in space spontaneously arises should be away is your name conscious conscious not just did you may have been this not yet they you are being run yes so what's the me there is one tibet will not today that's the end OK yes we'll do serious we'll do thankfully one did anything else what you hate took why do you wanna be it's a lot do you love to be more in your crimes do you love to be more than you may share power what but you then you meet yes to completely leave it i'm not saying stop it i'm not saying pause and forward i'm not just shift shift sit and stay with that beingness that's what's of value without that no thoughts no me no apparent me without that and just sit there just sit and stay with that yeah i don't believe any of it it thinks it knows and it doesn't it doesn't it doesn't it's all dream illusion crazy stuff no there's no thinking man you're looking at me out of your eyes right now and you can see me see the room when you turn and look back this way are you aware of the space that's here there's a space here are you aware of that can you see that right now yeah yeah you can see that can you see mine i don't think i can no so don't you think it's odd that we can shift our attention from one person one person's head or eyes to the next to the next to the next and to the next what we're actually seeing there is not this yes what's apparent to me as i'm sitting here right now is there's no head it's just awareness there's no head there's no here there's just there and everything comes from that space if you like it gets projected projected out yes imagine what can i say imagine what it would be like if you could see if you could actually look at somebody and see which you can't see what they see what they're seeing from that space well it's just another perspective of the same thing yeah but human beings when i look at you or when somebody looks at you they take you to be that yes there's no recognition at all of this in here no recognition of it yes when a so-called normal person hasn't been exposed to any of this see somebody you're not seeing the person no no they're a projected image of the person they're not seeing the awareness they're not seeing the likeness no you're not seeing the space remember i said to you a little while ago when you're walking down the street or if you're driving your car down the street try and see that that awareness of that sense of presence doesn't move no i tried that after you said that and everything goes past you so you're not going to a destination the destination comes to you take it a step further you can look down at your body run now yeah just be looking down here at your body and all you could say is that there's an arm projected out there there's an arm projected out there, torso and legs that are projected down there but here there's the space there's the awareness there's the space of that this space that I'm talking about back here is not actually a part of this when you turn and you look back here is it a thing?

no does it have substance? no is it a part of this world out here? no there's an emptiness back there yep it could also be it could also be called a fullness yes because without that without that back here none of that exists yes so it's got to be a thing so it's got to be a thing it's kind of weird when you that awakening happens and you kind of look down at the body and there's an arm poking out there and there's an arm poking out there and it's poking out both sides of empty space yes yeah no that's what your actual experience is that's what you actually see that's what you're aware that's the emptiness whatever label you want to put on it doesn't matter what label you put on it it doesn't matter what label you put on it there's the awareness if you're aware of that that's that only that I keep referring to no no I know just but yeah so when I say turn yeah turn sit with that it's really quite interesting we never look there never look there I've been taught to look there and when you actually do when you turn and you actually start to look there a really interesting thing happens it's experience when I did that and sat with that, me disappeared.

But it was just, it didn't happen instantly. I had to just keep sitting with that, just that space, that emptiness. Just sit with that. It's fucking amazing. It's amazing that you can turn and be aware of back here. You can be aware of back here, but there's nothing there. Yeah, there's nothing to see. Yet I can be aware of, there's still a knowing that there's space here, or an emptiness there. Amazing clarity there. It's clean, clear, not contaminated by anything. No, I know that. Do I know that? It was the last bit for me. Yes. That was the last bit. I had to see that my me was identifying with this presence.

I had enough intellectual knowledge and knowledge of the truth. I had enough intellectual knowledge and learning from being exposed to this to know that I wasn't a body. The last thing that was hanging on, which I didn't see, I couldn't see it, but I saw it, was this, my sense of me was identified with the sense of presence. So I kept saying, you know, yeah, I get it, I get it, I totally get it, but I'm still here. You know? And that was my stuck point. That was my stuck point. I think I'm similar, actually. Yeah. Until I saw that what that illusory self-identity was doing was hanging on to the sense of presence.

It's my sense of presence, after all. No one else's. And I saw that, and that kind of dropped away. And then when that kind of faded and dropped away, I was left with nothing to do but that. Okay. See, after one of your sessions previously, you were talking about this, I can see the... I'm glad you lost it. Leave it alone. All right, yeah, okay. Yeah, the more bloody ideas you have... Yeah, like... No, and I get sucked in by ideas on it. I do. Yeah, that's okay. Yeah. That's okay. See if you can see if what's going on for you is the same as what happened here.

Might be, might not. No, gee, I don't know. Just see if that... If you find that illusory self, which is just a bundle of thoughts, by the way, that's all it is, okay? But just see if that illusory self is reluctant, you know, it'll let go of all the thoughts and... Okay, yeah, okay, see, I'm not that. Okay, wouldn't let go of this. Wouldn't let... Hung on. Yeah, but I am. I'm here. So it hangs on to that sense of presence. So it hangs on to that sense... Just see if that's what's going on. Like, just have a look. Have a real close look and see if that's what's going on.

Yeah. If you see that that's what's going... In the seeing of that's what's going on, it should just drop. Yeah. It should just drop. Then what? Then where are you if that was to happen? Oh, I'm not anywhere. It's not a trick question. Where would you be if that happened? I'd be right here. Right. What's wrong with right here if you don't think about it? Yeah. If that all drops off. Yeah. If that just drops away. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Because there's something still hanging on. There is, yeah. There's something still hanging on. And it might just be that. It might just be that.

Yes. Yeah, that's all you can do. So what do you say after that? And Bob is using a similar line of pointing when he's saying the eye can't see. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. What does he mean? What does he mean immediately? No, it's okay. That's all he said. The eye can't see. The eye is not looking. There's seeing going on, but eye is only the instrument. And also, the thought I see is not the real seer, so I like the way Bill is actually paraphrasing it. He says, what the hell is looking? What is seeing? What is doing the seeing?

The eye is not doing the seeing. The thought is not doing the need. The thought is not doing the seeing. What is doing seeing? I like to use the pointer by actually focusing the attention to where the seeing starts from because you can't actually pinpoint any, there is nothing there. And Bob often says, okay, how many eyes do you have? When you experience the seeing, do you have two eyes? If you don't think about it, you can imagine, you can project it. You can't even say you have one eye. All you have, you have that just that vastness from which it all kind of emerges.

But it's not even, it's really nothing. But to actually focus on the point where it emerges from is impossible because it's a black hole there. But yes, like what Terry is saying, leaving this moment to moment, that looking from that emptiness, seeing the miracle of the appearance from that emptiness, hearing is even more important. And it's even easier because if you ask yourself, where are you hearing from? And now one sound is a kilometer away, there is a tram passing. Another sound is right here. What the heck is that? You realize that that space of hearing is everywhere. As far as the device, the equipment allows you, you are that space of hearing.

Just as you are the space of seeing. Space out there and space in front. There is really no separation. There is no separation. Suddenly there is something on the screen, but really that's just paradox of pointing because there is no screen. The screen is an emptiness. It's a cognizing emptiness. And in a funny way, the whole idea of cognizing or the knowing, I like how the ancients, they put such like being, knowing, loving to be. Being is prior to anything. Being is even prior to knowing. Anyway, being is prior to knowing. Because the knowing, the way the body actually translates knowing, it translates it to knowing through the seeing, hearing, tasting, touching, smelling.

But when the eyes and ears are closed, there is still knowing of the being. But then the knowing expresses itself through all these different channels. So it's all knowing. Like whatever we see. It's all knowing. We actually, this is the form of knowing. Whatever we hear is a form of knowing. Everything is the knowing. But there is no knower. It's just pure, plain knowing. So even if there is a personal feeling appearing on that screen of knowing, and it feels like, oh yes, I am involved. I have the desire. Or I'm actually really concerned about the outcome. That's just another way. A content experience. It expresses itself on the screen.

And is being known. And the knowing of it is the space, the cognising emptiness, is the knowingness. Knowing of personal, impersonal, happy, sad, ugly, doesn't matter. It's just plain knowing of everything and nothing. Because the everything is the nothing. It's just like no one is, nobody is looking. It's just the seeing. And nobody is seeing. Nobody does the seeing. Same, there is knowing. Nobody does the knowing. And it feels like there is, oh yeah, but there is something, there is a subtle difference. This is personal. It feels contraction. It feels like this is mine. And I'm involved and I have preferences. No, there is no life involved having preferences.

There is just an appearance of involvement. Or there is just an appearance of preference. But again, further down, nobody does it. It's just like, oh no, no, there is my ego doing it. There is personal, it is an ego. No, it's just an appearance of an ego. Like ego has never ever had any reality. And this is the beauty of it. Because if the ego was to wake up from itself, of course it's impossible. If the ego was to put out the bottle and get the final realisation, it would still be separate. Now I've got it and you don't. That would be still equal, even worse of a trap.

In my experience it feels like it's worse because people are not equal. And I'm not saying that it's not. I'm saying that it's not. I'm saying that it's not. I'm saying that it's not. I'm saying that it's not. I'm saying that it's not. I'm saying that it's not. I'm saying that it's not. That it's not. In my experience, people are thinking it's possible. They are hostile, they defalghe it. Oh, you don't think I've got it? I hate you. Oh, come on! So there is someone who thinks he's got it and that's also just an appearance of an out73 and ambient person. That's a yelled image.

Okay. on the screen of awareness because there isn't anyone there it's just it's just a funny form touch what they call it taught formation oh yeah I don't I bugita taught formation it's like the thought being believed to a shape like a balloon being blown into an object so the thought formation that are there is a me and I am clear and I am enlightened that's just another figure on the screen of the emptiness and is this it is being known so it is the cognizing emptiness being aware of that appearance but of course it goes with the package it goes with the investment with defending with attacking everyone else who think I have I haven't got it yeah the suffering that comes with it and beautiful that's how life wants to wake up from yet another dream and it will want this try it just for a second let's fall straight back into duality for a second can you do that with me yeah okay so I've asked you to describe yourself where you go start describing yourself I'm Robin I live in Australia I was born in Melbourne stop no no I should just to describe yourself myself yeah I'm a kind person I like to help people if I can you know no no no I'm asking you to describe yourself self scribe that self can't be described oh that's interesting I was on that other stuff that was coming out yeah see what that's who I think I am but see how we miss we miss it yeah you know you do describe the self because it's just the habit just thinking that way that's not enough and that's the real problem that that's not it's not And that's not actually describing the self.

No, no. That's describing the experience of the self. Yes. Isn't it? Yes. Describe the self. That's another pointer in regards to... No, and you're not the experience. In regards to who am I, where am I, what am I? That's what everyone confuses, that they're the experience. It's not the experience. And everyone's locked into that. You could ask anyone that. Yes. Describe yourself. Oh, I'm Terry, I'm this and I'm that. No, no, no. That's not what I asked. It's totally not what I asked. Describe the self. Describe yourself. It's indescribable. Oh, well, I feel this and I feel... That's what the body does. That's what everybody...

That's just what... That's how everybody functions. Yes. They believe that their self is an accumulation of experiences and thoughts. Yes. That's what they believe the self is. Yes. And you just proved it. You just started to describe it. Yes. No, no, that is what you described. All that. Conceptual image. Total concept. Total image. And a dead past. Memory. Yes. Dead. Dead. Well, it's a perspective thing, isn't it? From the perspective of the many, the divided, to the undivided, or the absolute. I know. That's conceptual. That's okay. Look, the pointer in that is, who am I? What am I? Really? Where? And I'm talking about the inquiry of trying to find the me, when I say that.

Yes. I mean, when you look at it, what I am is I am the experiencing of the body. Or the body-mind, if you like. Like, that's how I exist. I know I exist is through feeling things and seeing things and hearing. Things. Although, when all of those stop, I'm still there. So, I can't be any of those things yet prior to that. Yeah. Yeah. How about you? Yeah. Any questions? Hmm? Something to share, maybe? Do you have any experiences? Like, do you meditate? Or do you, did you study, maybe, Nisargadatta or any of the... I read, they said dreams in the Siddhāla. Beautiful. I read, they said dreams in the Siddhāla.

Beautiful. I read, they said dreams in the Siddhāla. Beautiful. I read, they said dreams in the Siddhāla. Beautiful. Beautiful. Beautiful. Anything else anybody? Anything else yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Anything else, you can share one. Haven't you read some Initially Dhan halves? I, I think, just read the whole view of the view of the� hiya, but some things I've read. Ha? You must believe, yeah. You must believe I have been arising. Well, when had I become owe-with? Huh? you enjoying loving to be or is still coming up and coming and going? I think the moments of clarity last longer. Oh, that's beautiful. So the process of stabilization in that natural state.

That's the beauty of Bob's meeting. He makes an intro and now people who actually experience that and abide in that, they share their experience. People who don't, they ask questions. So it's not many gatherings where people actually can assist one another. Usually you have one guru on the pedestal and everybody just to obey. Here is different. So you can just jump in and share because see, whatever you've experienced, you can put it in the words and it can help someone because that's how life is actually speaking mysteriously through every pair of mouth. It's all the same one. What about you, Tony? You look blissful. No, I'm just going.

As much as what you say, it doesn't work the opposite for me. I was actually quite, shouting my eyes was sending me to sleep because I was really tired. So I was going in and out of sleep and not thinking about it and sleep and thinking about it. Not thinking about this but drifting off to a day and sleep. And not thinking about it comes up in so many circumstances. Like a lot of things you said, they're there for me already. But the thinking about it is constantly, constantly, constantly, constantly here, coming in and coming out. And I can't remember what you said because I wasn't really trying to listen to you, you know what I mean?

Yeah, but that's a good pointer. If you're using the reminder not to think about it, that's a fabulous reminder. No, but I never have to. That one was just solid. I read it in a sentence before I came across it. Non-duality, it's never left. So it's not even... It doesn't come up as if, you know what I mean? It's just not... It's neutral. Either way, it just hasn't come up to try it in a different way. Yeah. Yeah, I heard... So I can't say it's not going to suddenly turn up tomorrow and that it wants to do it differently. Yeah, sure. Yeah, I heard some of the people that were coming to Bob, they were using...

And they found it actually really helpful in the form of, don't go there. They would say they heard Bob saying different pointers at different times. And the one about not thinking about it, when the thought would come and invite you for a journey of a dream, particularly a bad dream, but a good one too. Don't go there. Don't go there. And of course, you can't tell yourself that because there is no you to tell yourself anything. But if this frequency, if person is exposed often enough to that particular frequency, it sometimes just automatically pops, don't go there. Everything... I never used that personally. Because my experience is...

My experience is that every pointer is just a pop-up. Like I never experienced it as anything but a pop-up. But that one, like once a lay put it from some other... I don't know, from, I don't know, somebody else she heard it from, was more the don't touch it. So I don't know originally who said that. Oh yeah, that's more... Yeah, I remember you saying it here. Yeah, and... Or hands off. Yeah, the don't touch it one. Or leave it. That's more because there's quite a lot of observation here of thoughts coming in. Or just beginnings of thoughts or flash of what a thought even might be about and then it stops because it's...

At times, not all the time, you know, but at certain times. That could be very... A lot of that is seen. A lot of what the little stuff is seen like that and then it just goes and then it's peaceful but brief and then it comes. And yeah, so that one has turned out, you know, for a few days, two or three times. Cool. Yeah. I like the Bob's version. The little thoughts though. I'm not really... Tell us Bob, your version of unaltered, unaltered thoughts. Unaltered, unmodified. That's my favourite. It's... I mean... The way to put it. The one they talked about in The Godfather.

That was the best one. Which one? Tell us. What? Godfather. Forget about it. Forget about it. That's a new version. I didn't hear that one before. I've heard you say that one before. Forget about it. How about the psychiatrists? Stop it. I like that one. Stop it. Forget about it, I can't do so much because then there's this whole kind of... Again, but contract my mind. Yeah. I like that one. I like that one. I like that one. I like that one. I like that one. And it's just like when we get a bit contracted around trying to get it in first place notion comes up at the same time.

But the way you're sitting is so still, that was actually doing the same thing for me. It was... Yeah, sometimes no one... That's resonating in the still. It's just resonating... Yeah, it's just... Silence is the best pointer. But it's not even about the silence. It's just something in your still that is being matched here. Stillness. Yeah. Beauty. Yeah. It's often just the resonance of what's going on for someone is... So that's like... can be mirrors, you know. Absolutely. That's quite a good one too, if like somebody's a bit joyful, you know, because you quite often mention joy, or someone mentions something in that vein, and then there's a, it flashes in, oh, there's not joy there right now, oh, maybe there's not the nothing, nothing, and then yeah, there it goes.

The joy comes up, because the nothing, nothing comes in the joy. And the nothing, nothing in joy was a few experiences I had after one of the transmissions for awakening from Nemala, like a couple of days, but it pops in often, that one gets triggered back quite often. It really seems to have the nothing, nothing before it. Cool. But often, like, you know, the nothing, nothing, the joy, and then with a short bracket, I'm already assessing it, and oh, everyone will think I'm faking that, you know. It comes in, and it just gets cut right at the very beginning, you know, it's amazing, and then it can come, go back, like I can, three times it went both ways just then, you know.

It's funny when it comes back, but, um, when the thoughts come back, but it's like clarity of thoughts, clarity of thoughts, you know, but I can see them fleshing, the different ones I've fleshed, and I know they had it's like, and that's just, yeah. But that's good, because I have the peaceful root, you know, like, you know, I've had, you know, troubles with your son and stuff, and I've got the opposite, because not all the time, this is, you know, sometimes, not much anymore. I get to see so much of it, it doesn't, the tortoise pace means nothing, much, but then the patience has always been there my whole life.

Sat in a cave and done nothing, you know, my whole life. Not even knowing about non-duality, just like, oh yeah, it might be means life. Just kind of dipped down in life, from whatever conditioning, or past, who knows where it comes from. Yeah, cool case. It's, um, it must be useful for something, I might be able to write about it or something, because I can see it. No, and I can't see everything, all the time, but I can see, there's a lot of stuff I can see, here and there, and enough things to see, oh yeah, that's a, that, that kind of experience exists, that experience, that experience, that experience, and yeah, half of them people don't know what fucking to do with it.

I sit down without any triggers of being judged coming up, which are another childhood trigger. Then I just get to do the best possible description of Oh gosh, write the poetry. Actually, a little bit more has coming out, I feel like it's like, I'm just before, in the hall, where, what was it, um, like, a couple of lines came up. It just seems that it's had to go away from that, just for the, you know, the shit to be exposed. That's taken all the time. Um, yeah, no couple of lines, what was it? Um, anyway, it's just sitting on my phone, just a couple of lines.

Yeah, it shows. Yeah. You know, because it's brilliant, the way, you know, when you describe something that you see, you use 10,000 words with the light speed, but when you write the poetry, you squeeze it out. Ah! It's just saying the same shit, people just can't keep up with it. Yeah, because, yeah, you're speaking fast, and then you use really, really flourish, beautiful, long descriptions, and then also the attention span. And, you know, Because really I'm doing like, pam, pam, pam, pam, pam, pam, like, it's in the same fashion, none of it's made up, it's all the best possible description of experience. But then sometimes it's clouded with the flashes in, I'm going to be judged, I'm going to be judged, or flashes in, none of this is true, none of this is true, none of this is true, none of this, and that flashes in, which makes it always helpful.

Yeah. And then you write lightly here, but then people are like, ah, you're so in the air, and then whatever, and so then, then so many things go on. That clouds it. But in the poetry, you use fewer words, but they're all very visual. Yeah. The pictures, so instead of using 300 sentences with the light speed, you use three words in the line, three lines, and you've got this beautiful. Yeah. I'm usually describing that much, but here I'm describing that much. Yes. But it's not actually a lot different. The way the description, apart from the other crap that comes in. The message is clearer. It's not a lot different.

It's just this, I think also sometimes people trust poetry more. Message is clearer, because you can't get lost in words, because it's not that many. Yeah, yeah. OK. OK. Thank you. Thanks, Bobby. Thanks, Bob. Thank you. Thanks, Terry. Thank you. It's only got two lines on it, but I don't know. I'm going to do that. Yeah, I guess. Got it? No, but what you're pointing at is that. Yeah, let her read it. On Zinnia, which bit's the real me? Let her read it. It basically says, something pointed, life smiled. Oh, that's it. Oh, beautiful. Yeah. It's just an accurate representation of an experience. Yeah, that's it.

And see how much it says. It says it all in a few words. Yeah. Yeah. Gorgeous. So that's not, and normally it would be longer, but that's just the beginning one, I guess. Yeah, I hope it will be longer. Yeah, yeah. You had the perfect size. I'm not so, it doesn't flash in so much. Oh, God, maybe that can get me, it might be living, and I'm missing out on a living, because I'm busy getting enlightened instead, you know? Life only starts when you get off the work. Yeah. You know, seriously, you're carrying me the same test, though, really. I mean, what Terry's saying is, I think, seems to be from, here, the path of the many, for sure.

And, yeah, I love that. But then occasionally, if there's the pattern coming up of not being heard and understood, then it will go, oh, like, oh, you go away. You're so different from everyone else. Just let's just . That's just sometimes, and that's when the pattern's coming up to disappear, of not being heard. Because my whole life has been, oh, no, no, just do everybody else, and, you know, like, I'm not important. It's just easy to be not in the, I got too noticed as a kid and got into trouble too much. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. But, yeah, I used to be invisible, too. But at the same time, I love it when things get exposed to everybody else.

I love it, too. So it's not even really a conflict. It's just some moments, certain pattern has to go and get as well. But sorry, Ian, that's a carry on. No, it's cool. No, no, no. It was cool. Say, say what, yeah. Because this is really good for you. No, we were off stage. No, he was just experiencing. It's good for you, you know. It's good for you, yeah. This stuff, it so fits you. And it's just funny. But what I was, actually, what I was thinking, is just in the normal me sitting here, which fits me. It's not some special or anything. It's just here, now.

Well, I'll do that. I don't know if I can say that, but there is. This is more of it. Now, now, now, now, now, now, now, now. It's like the whales just fit in here, so it's more of it. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.