Sailor Bob - Non Duality in Melbourne

You'll like that one. OK, say your names so everybody knows everybody. Terry. Well you know the story. I'd start. Alright, if I take a breath. We don't tell you anything and we don't teach you anything. Understand that right from the start. As we point to, ask and look at, you'll see that nobody can ever teach you anything or nobody can tell you anything. And there's been a bit of argument about Buddhism and Vaita and all the rest of it. But I said years and years ago and I still say it a lot. And at Vaitan I'm not a Hindu, I'm not a Muslim, I'm not a Buddhist, I'm not a Jew or a Christian or any of those things.

But I have been able to take parts of all those great traditions. And utilise them because the truth is hidden in the wall if you look at it. Instead of staying to one with all, it might have a lot of good points in it but a lot of them have a lot of problems in them too. When they try and make it to one. I can't teach you anything, can't tell you anything. And I'm not talking to anybody, I'm not talking to any mind. That's what we point to. That the base of all those teachings. That it's one in all. One essence. One essence in which all these patterns, shapes and forms and everything appears in that one essence.

But that is exactly what is happening. They call it a phenomenal manifestation in Buddhism. The definition of phenomena is that which appears to be. So all the things in this manifestation, you, me, the trees, the flowers, the planets, the stars, everything are in the manifestation. What are they all appearing in? They're appearing on that basic screen which is silence or the stillness or the emptiness. Whichever label you like to put on. There's many different labels you can put on things. Don't get necessarily locked into the one label. When you see, when I hear in the Advaita thing, Brahma, Vishnu and Shiva, all the different terms they put on it, they're all the so-called God.

But see that they're all the stillness. Take the fancy names off them like God. In the beginning was the Word, the Word was with the God. That is all God is, is a Word, a label. Without any words, without any labels. Is there anyone in this room who is not present or aware right now? There is not knowing that you are. That knowing what you are, you can put all sorts of labels on that white beard. But can you negate that knowing? Can you say, I am not? You can say it as much as you like, but it would devise what you're saying. Because that's happening in that pattern that you call you.

It's all happening or appearing in that. Though, as we just pointed out, it is no thing. This manifestation is made up of things. The chair, the carpet, the flowers, the trees, the planets, all things. And what's appearing on that basic screen is no thing. It hasn't got any pattern or any shape or any form. No thing whatsoever. So, can some thing come from no thing? It doesn't have to be Rowan Scull to work that out. Something cannot come from no thing. So, if all these so-called things are appearing in the no thing, they are actually no thing appearing as some thing. So, that's what we need to recognise.

Recognise that there is one essence. Patterning, shaping and forming and preparing in all this diversity is the myriads and myriads of different patterns, shapes and forms. And the wondrous ways they can appear and express implies that they are suffused with a innate intelligence. Like this body, for instance, all the organs, the nerves, the blood, the veins and everything in the heart, the lungs and everything. Doesn't that imply it's suffused with an innate intelligence to form it? And where did it form from? Didn't it form out of, go back as far as you like. Go back to the essence of your father and your mother. The essence of your father.

And the food that he ate and the breath that he took enabled in that form, through that food and breathing and heart beating, a little microscopic particle called a sperm to form in it. You can't see it with your naked eye, that thing. It's put under a microscope to see. And the same in the mother, through the essence of the food and the air, enabled another microscopic particle called an egg or an ovum to form. And that ovum and sperm were suffused with an innate intelligence. Because they weren't just something bland and not doing anything. They knew what to do. The sperm was suffused with intelligence and it was enabled to swim to the ovum.

It knew where to swim to and to penetrate the ovum. And the ovum was suffused with intelligence. It knew what to do. It fixed itself to the wall of the uterus. It attached itself to the wall of the uterus. It knew what to do. And when the sperm and ovum, those two things came together, that innate intelligence in them knew what to do. It doubled those two and doubled it again and formed the little embryo, the little fetus, which you are today. Is it the same as it was then or not? No, what's happened? Isn't it there's a lot more cells in the sperm and ovum than there are?

They're constantly changing. It's constantly transient, constantly changing. But the life essence that's flowing through it is the same life essence that's moving the earth around the sun, causing the stars and planets to form. They call it the same as in nature. That's the natural state. That's what they call it in some of these scriptures, the natural state as in nature. Now, have a look out there in nature. You'll see that nature is suffused with intelligence. are fused with innate intelligence, the activity of knowing, and that knowing is an activity being a vibration, a movement of energy. And that's all this manifestation is, a vibrating pattern of energy in the wondrous and diverse ways it can vibrate and express and all these patterns.

But while we're dividing it up, while we're taking ourselves to be a separate entity into some other so-called entity, a god that's a higher power or a greater power than you or I or anything that's creating this world, we're losing sight of our true nature. And when you see something like the library, the Gita will tell you that. There is no creator. There is no creation. And there's no creature. You and I and everything else that appears in there are creatures, creatures. You and I and everything else that appears in there are creatures, creatures. It's been seemingly been created. But they have no substance or any independent nature whatsoever that can stand on their own.

It's still, it's continuing to pattern, shape and form. And as in nature, are you any different from nature? Or can you separate yourself and say, I'm something that's separate and apart and different from nature? You can't. And you're saying that's that same intelligence that formed that pattern that's enabled you to take that breath you just took. It's beating your heart. It's growing your hair and your fingernails, replacing cells in your body, digesting your food, the very living essence that you are. That's patterned into shape and form. But what have we done with that? We have the capacity to reason. Which is the capacity the so-called human forms have, which is much greater than it is in a lot of other animals, birds or insects.

With that capacity of reasoning. learnt words, labels, taken a word to be real. It tells you in Ninh Tzing Ming, one of the scriptures, words, the way is beyond language. It's beyond language, beyond the words. There's no yesterday, no tomorrow, and no today. Well, have a look at that. What's yesterday? Can you go back and live yesterday? All it is is a memory. Now, if you're not recalling it, can you tell me anything at all about it if you're not remembering it or recalling it? It's gone, it's finished. What about tomorrow? Is there such a thing as tomorrow? That famous sign outside of the pub, free beer tomorrow.

You'd wait a long time, hold your breath for a long time before you get any free beer, because there's no tomorrow. And even this today, what part of this are you calling today? Which section? Is it this moment or is it the five minutes ago or is it five minutes in the future? The actuality is always in the Semidisi, which has never been anything separate and apart from the Semidisi. So, Mahavaki, or the great mantra put by Cleland in some of the traditions is, I am that. That is what I am. And don't you know that in your language, because you say that's a chair, that's a carpet, that's a flower, that's a tree, that's the stars, that's the wind.

We know already that everything is that, which we put flower, trees, wind, and everything else, we put different labels on them, put the labels on them to discriminate them. But is the word the thing? Is the word I or me, is that what you are? We believe we are this I or me, but are you? If you haven't got that word, well if you've got that word, what are you doing? You're taking yourself to be some description or some conceptual idea or image, which you must realise is based on so-called past events and experiences and conditioning. So the past is being recalled or remembered and putting some conditions and labels on it, but the actuality of it is the Semidisi.

It's right here, right now, just as it is in itself. And that's another label they put on it, what is. What is means it's unaltered, unmodified, uncorrected. What can alter it, modify it or correct it? Isn't it the language or the words we've learned? Putting some labels on it that are seemingly differentiated from what's natural, that's natural functioning, what it naturally is. And have a look at these words, and realise that every word you've ever spoken, ever spoken or ever likely to speak has been learned. How many words were you born with? Go back and try and remember your birth. Well, so you can see how many words you had then.

Well, you don't remember the nine months he's in the womb. You can't say anything about it. Two years outside of the womb when you're four. When that little kid was born, before you learned any words or learned any language, you didn't have any words. But you were living, you were seeing, you were hearing, tasting, touching, smelling. All functioning was going on. But what could you say about it? Only these words you've learned. You can put the words on. But if you didn't have any words, what could you say? Well, look at a little child again. Go back and see for yourself what a little baby, before it's learned any words, is doing.

You realize it's seeing, it's hearing, tasting, such and such. If it's hungry, it'll cry. If it's happy, it'll gurgle. It can throw a tantrum and do this or do that. Something that's just a natural, spontaneous function. Just like that cat, if it gets hungry, it'll cry and start meowing for a bit of meat, a bit of water, a bit of something. But it's not saying to anybody, I'm hungry. Get me some food. It's implying, you know, that that's what'll bring food to it. We've got to learn what it does to make these humans respond to it by bringing it food and things like that. So as I say, for the first couple of years of your life, you didn't have any words.

So how can you say, I was born? Because you don't remember your birth. Test that out. Can any one of you in this room actually remember your birth? It will naturally say, I was born. We put a date on the label, which we've been told by our parents or whatever. Take that to be real. But it's all dead now. It's a dead image. And what, you know, in the nine months when you were forming in the womb, hasn't that body changed? Hasn't it changed since you went out of the womb when you were growing? Isn't it changing right now? No. The pattern, shape, and form is, as I say, all this manifestation is transient.

They pointed out there's nothing static in it whatsoever. It's constantly changing, constantly transient. You realize that's so. You haven't got the same body you walked in this room with. You believe this is me. I've caught the tram and come here. But is it the same body you walked in this room? It's not. And when you look at it, you realize there's thousands of cells, not one or two, hundreds of thousands of cells dying in it right now. And they have been every moment of your life. The cells have been dying and being replaced. It's continuing to happen. And when the reasoning capacity came in, you had about two to an half, you learned words.

Before that, as I say, you had no words. And realize every word you've ever spoken has been learned, been picked up along the way. Tell me a word that you haven't learned. And you might be learning fresh and new words to this day, because you don't know. You don't know every word in the dictionary. There's some you might have heard of before. But if somebody tells you about it, or you read about it, and get the meaning of it, you'll use that word. But the word is not the thing. Have a look at the word water and see, is the word water water? Water's a gas, H2O, a gas, which when those two come together, it forms into a seeming liquid.

And the liquid you call water. But can you drink the word? Can you wash in that word? Can you quench your thirst with that word? We've got the label, we've got the word, but see, the word's not the thing. Now what's the word we've taken on that's personalized it? The person. What's been told by your parents, the school, your society, I'm Bob, I'm so and so, I'm this, that, and the other, all words which we've learned. And they are now all dead words. So I'm constantly relating to this idea of a person, and I'm not going to do that. I'm going to do it. And where does the word person come from?

An ancient language, the persona, the mask. The mask we've put upon ourselves is a conceptual image, a conceptual image made up of words or concepts, mental constructs. And it's a dead image. It's not based up on what is right now. What label are you putting on yourself right now? You go immediately to a past image of what you've got about yourself, what you've been told, what you believed in. So this concept or image that you've got about yourself is not what you actually are. And the word person comes from an ancient language that meant the mask. Are you a mask? No, you know you're not a mask.

You are this thing, the pattern of intelligence energy, which suffused with that knowing. It's got that activity of knowing in it right now. When hearing what I'm saying, you can relate to it and see whether it's so or not. Relating to the word and recognizing that the word is not the rule. You don't have to relate to the word. So recognizing that words can be utilized, they can be very useful. But the words are a vibration, a movement of energy, a vibrating pattern of energy. And they are vibrating. A vibration is vibrating in the pairs of opposites. And have a look and see how it works.

It's either good or bad. Pleasant or painful, happy, sad, loving, hating, positive, negative. Watch your mind. See if it functions any other way. And then the opposites. And those opposites we put upon it are words. And didn't Shakespeare tell you there's nothing either good or bad, but thinking makes it so. When we're thinking and relating to those opposites, we put this one's good, that one's bad. This one's pleasant, that one's unpleasant. We're constantly dividing these concepts. With our language, with the words we've learned, and taking it, putting the feelings and sensations into them. This is a bad feeling. This is not a good one. This is a good one.

And this Agadatta tells you the same thing. These are things we need to look at, what the ancients have pointed out. Test them out for yourself and see what they were saying was right or not. And he says, nothing can trouble you except in your own imagination. Imagination. That's a word we've learned. What happens if you break it down to image in? And realize that's what you're doing all the time, forming conceptual or mental images, usually based on past events and experience and conditioning. So imaging in, we're imagining. We are imagining with this or that, taking the image, or the thought, or the concept to be real, putting it into practice within ourselves.

using this word and that word or image, mental image, conceptual image, and taking ourselves to be real. And that's what needs to be looked at and questioned and seen for yourself because you realize that all your psychological problems, all your psychological troubles come about from this constant conceptualizing, forming mental images, taking the image to be real. But if it is a past event experience and conditioning we're relating to, we're relating to a dead image. That's now dead, it's not the actual. So as we're constantly relating to a dead image and we're trying to become this, trying to become whole or complete and happy and feeling good and all the rest of it, trying to become something we've moved away from that word being.

Being is something that's happening right now in this immediacy. It's not was-ing. Yes. not will be, it's being right now. Anyone who is not being right now or existing in other words for it, there are many different words you can use for meaning the same thing. So you've got to sort them out and have a look at what's going on. You can't negate your beingness. Can anyone say I am not? No. You know that you are that being. What you can say is I am. That I am is part of the verb to be. Am, are, is, was, were. Am and is. They're the actuality.

I am. This is. What is. We've got these words or labels taken to be real but the word is what keeps us in bondage. We're bound up in the word, in the concept, in the idea and believe in these words. you And that's another thing we're told. That any belief is not the actuality. And the dictionary definition of belief is not in question acceptance. We've accepted these beliefs, not in question acceptance without. Yeah. Acceptance of something in the absence of reason. We haven't worked it out. We haven't questioned it. We've just taken it for granted. What we've been told. Been told that I was born, that I am a human being.

I am this, I am that. We haven't questioned it. Taken it to be real. And it's easy to understand why that is. Because schools, society, nation and everybody else reinforce that belief. Nobody tells you when you're born, you're not this, you're not that. They say you are little Johnny. You know, you are this good boy. You are this human being. Been reinforced by your schools, your society and everybody else. So naturally we fall into the trap and take it to be real. Unquestioned acceptance in the absence of reason. Acceptance of an alleged fact. How many alleged facts are there that we've taken without questioning or believing?

Without positive knowledge of proof. Now the real, the truth cannot stand up to investigation. Well the false cannot stand up to investigation, I should say. But if something is false and you question it, it will fall apart under that investigation. And if it falls apart under the investigation, what must you be left with? You must be left with its opposite, the truth. And that's again how it vibrates. False, false, true, all the rest of it, in the pairs of opposites. Well we've got the false belief there, we've taken it to be real. We've set ourselves up to be separate from something or away from it, apart from it.

But the scriptural saying is loud and clear, know the truth, the truth will set you free. And what can you be free of? You can be free of these beliefs when you question them. Because they cannot stand up to the investigation. And that's what needs to happen. Relax and settle into that beingness, knowing that you are. Doesn't mean to say you're not going to use words, concepts or ideas and images, you can use them. But in knowing the truth about them, you're going to take the belief that they're real, that they're solid, that they're substantial. So the mind, or what we call mind, is nothing but thought.

There is no such thing as mind apart from thought. And if mind is thought, and you believe you are this mind, which particular thought would you be? You'd have to be a particular thought. Well can you ask for thought and say, I am this thought? You can use the word I am, but that's just a thought. And it's not much good to you, unless you put the other concepts on it. I'm Bob, Australian and all the rest of it. But in this natural state, that am-ness, or beingness, it's just what is right now. These are things we need to question and look at and see for ourselves.

In the investigation, you can't help but recognise, re-cognise, and that's another word, they call it a cognising emptiness, in the Buddhist teachings. Not that we are cognising the emptiness, but the emptiness itself. The fused with that intelligence, or cognising. Another word for cognising is knowing. That knowing, emptiness. It's the emptiness that is knowing. And the Buddha made this statement that emptiness is form. It's that emptiness, the space like awareness, the stillness, the silence, in which all these forms are appearing in. Isn't that a fact? Have a look for yourself. Recognising the basic screen behind it all. Look out the window and you'll see what's...look Look right in front of your eyes right now, what's the first thing you see?

Isn't it space? The closest things to your eyes is space. And what's in that space? Is there anything in that space? Not when it's close to your eyes like that. Move out a little bit, not till you see the first things in the room which are a little bit away from you. It's that emptiness in which all the things are found here. Appearing in emptiness's form. And the form can be nothing other than the emptiness. Realise it hasn't changed, it's true nature. Though it appears to, it's still only the emptiness appearing again. When this manifestation is maya or illusion, a phenomenal manifestation, definitely something like that, which appears to be, it's all appearing to be so.

But the appearance is only seemingly so, not what actually is. So that's what needs to happen, to take a stance in that reality, the actuality that you are. Not in the conception, not in the conceptual image or the bound up entity that you are. Where you beat yourself up with the word. And that's all we ever beaten ourselves up with, the word. I'm not good enough, I'm fearful, I'm unhappy, I'm depressed, I'm anxious, I'm guilty, jealous, I'm envious. All words. We beat the hell out of ourselves. And that's what we call psychological suffering. We suffer from the belief in those words. Oh, I'm not good enough.

What will people think of me? Why am I like this? And all the rest of it, all the other things, you know what it's like. You had all these concepts, belief in the concepts to it. And there again, they tell you again in some of the scriptures. The great perfection, the great perfection, the oneness, the great perfection or the absolute, the same different terms they use for the same, is non-conceptual awareness, awareness without any concepts on it. They give you the clue what to do. Stop your conceptualizing. Don't do it. Pause the thought. What's wrong with right now? If you ask yourself what is wrong with right now without a thought, what have you got to do?

You've got to have a look to see what's there without a thought. And you recognize there's nothing there whatsoever. What can you say about it without a thought? You can't say it's good, you can't say it's bad. Pleasant and painful without putting the word or the label or anything on it. But have you fallen apart or disappeared without the thought? Every night when you go to sleep, you gradually, gladly get up and you say, I'm not good enough. I'm not good enough. I'm not good enough. I'm not good enough. I'm not good enough. I'm not good enough. I'm not good enough. I'm not good enough.

And then you might start to dream and cause another seeming phenomenal manifestation in the dream, a dreamed up image, a world where you're doing all sorts of activities and things like that. Then when you wake up from that dream, it disappears, and then you know you've gone away from the dream, and all that starts to happen. And it's true. It's true. It's true. It's true. It's true. It's true. disappears and you fall back into this waking dream again. Which dream was right? Which waking state was right? If there was a waking state that was right, which one was it? So you see it's still only seemingly so, still only appearance.

This waking state you're in right now, it only appears to be so. And the form that you're expressing through is a unique expression, a unique pattern, a unique shape and form. There's no two pattern shapes and forms the same, just like there's no two fingerprints the same, there's no two leaves on the tree the same. Each pattern is a unique expression. That's the wondrous and diverse ways it can express. Again implying there's a wondrous intelligence suffusing everything. Cognizing emptiness. That cognizing emptiness, when you're not cognizing and you lose sight of it, well it needs to happen. It needs to be re-cognized or recognized. Another word we put on it, recognized, re-cognized.

Go back to that cognizing. And you recognize the truth in things. Anyway, that's enough. That's what I talked to, to point to and ask you to look to where we're pointing to. See for yourself. There must be some questions or arguments or some of you might have seen through it or looked at it and you can describe it and add a bit more to it or whatever. But that's what it's all about. Helping to re-cognize in that cognizing what you've learned or what you've picked up. You'll be able to. And that's how it gets around. How do your language and everything like that get around?

Just through your skills, your society and your nation, all the false stuff and teachings come around from people passing it on when you're learning it. And now through the ages there's been people that point this. Different traditions and religions have formed around it, which they start to garble it again when they get into other religions and other things. Different shapes and forms because each one's got a better take than the other one or think they have. And my religion is better than yours, blah, blah, blah, and get lost in the story again. But those people down through the ages have said that's where these religions are formed around.

And people have set them up. The saints, sages, saviors and seers, the formers, the Christ, the Buddhas, the Mohammeds and all the rest of them have formed religion. And the Christ didn't know anything about Christianity. He just preached to the Mohammeds. Christianity was the label they put on it afterwards. And that probably goes for a lot of the other religions too. So we put the labels on, but the thing is, realise that all those people that carried the message are only patterned shapes and forms like you and I are. Evanescent patterns on the screen of awareness. Evanescent. No reality to it. But they've taken them to be real.

And worshipped the messenger. Set the messenger up and worked him into something. Somebody greater. Somebody who's got an emulate or get to or become or try to become. Or will never become as like that but will get him to, if I pray to him, bow to him, he'll do this and give me that and give me that. Well, it won't happen. All it can do is recognise what the message is. Put it into practice for yourself and recognise it for yourself and see what we're pointing to as right. If I'm not, come back and tell me. I'm quite happy with it. Away you go. Yeah?

Something immediately happened. Well, go back to the intuitive. When you say to know the truth is I am that. That is what I am. Not the person, but that pure intelligence energy. Without the label on it like this, I say that's a chair, that's a carpet. You put the label chair and carpet on it, but it's still only that. Everything is that. Yeah. Yeah. So it starts in the fact that you are that and you've always and only and ever been that. Until it settles with you, you know, and recognising that you are that and the resonation of recognition and that, you know, the absolute certainty will come up and the confidence will be there.

We seem to be adding on top of it all. Certainly that's my experience. But the more, the more that I come and see you, the more it's just becoming... Yeah. ...obvious that there's only the actual. Exactly. And that's it. And thinking, we're sort of going into thought and getting confused by the content of thought. But that's, we sort of, we just need to, what you say, recognise. It's just seeing, hearing, those six things which you could call experiencing with ING. Yeah. And that's it. That's it. Finished. Yeah. Yeah. Good. That was that for a second. Thank you. One of the, one of the pieces that I struggled with, just to pick up a little bit, is the concept of time.

We talk about it as a concept, but I know that when people speak to me about it, I can't, I'm not as clear in my own mind as to how to, and with myself about, I know that the past and the future is, is, is a, is a, is a, is a, is a, is a, is a, is a, is a, is a concept of mind and that there is only the direct experience that you're talking about. And yet my mind also says to me that if we were all to agree to sit in this room for the conceptual next 50 years, in 50 years' time there's going to be a lot of dead bodies or patterns that have certainly changed shape, form and won't be sitting here thinking away like we are now.

So can you help me get a little clearer about that sort of how time is just conceptual in a way that I can understand hopefully? What is your actuality? The actuality is the experience, the senses, the thoughts that are happening right this moment. Right here, right now, in the immediate. Now, can you move away from that? Only with a concept or a thought or an idea. Either way, whichever way you go into the past or the future. So this is the actuality, this moment. But if you call it the moment, you can't even call it that. And as I say, it's ever fresh and ever new.

It hasn't got any time on it, any... What do you call it? Yeah, any length to it or any... You know, it's always this immediacy. Just... When does now begin? Well, you can only say it's starting right now. And even as you're saying that, it's finishing right now. So it's starting again, you know. So it hasn't got any static point to it anywhere at all. But since we conceptualised in the mind, it was yesterday or last year or a thousand years ago. I find at this moment that somebody's about to walk. And yes, it is a consecutive moment of now, now, now, now, and then somebody walks away.

And then somebody walks away. And that's the bit that I find sort of the... So I absolutely... I absolutely... I'm absolutely with you. I'm understanding the immediacy of the now. And at the same moment, I guess my mind... The thoughts that come to me are, yes, somebody's buzzed. And I hear the buzz. And there might even be a vibration of the buzz and the thought of somebody buzzing. And then there's an anticipation of it. And in about a second, somebody's walking away. And somebody walks away. And that's how that concept forms. And it seems so incredibly real. Yeah. But it's all just comparison. Mm-hmm. And it's all just comparison.

And you compare this with this, which is your split. There's the duality. Like, you can't ever give me or show me five seconds ago. You can't. In your head, or in your dualistic thinking, there's a comparison, but it's not the actual... It's not the actual now. I could have a green, fresh apple in one hand. And you would go, yep, that's a green, fresh apple. And then in the other hand, it's rotten. Because it's been sitting there for six weeks or whatever. And what the mind does with that, it goes, that's a rotten apple. Why does it do that? Because it compares it to a green apple.

But the reality is that so-called rotten apple is ever fresh, brand new, right now. That's really hard for our head to get into. And we're so used to comparing all the time. Yeah, and the head says that apple's been sitting there for six weeks. Correct. And that's the... It's so difficult to move away from saying, yeah, that one's been here for six weeks. So we carry a concept of six weeks. And right there is the invention. It's an invention. It's a total invention, which we've been running on and functioning from. And it seems real. It does seem real. But when you actually really, really look at it and come to see, the only place that you absolutely exist is now.

And it's always now. I used to go, now, now, now, now, now, now. And actually, to get closer to it, it's now. Just now. And there is no time in the absolute now. Until the mind steps in and starts comparing this to that. Today to yesterday, or today to tomorrow. And all conflict arises between the me, which is the mind, which is the memory, which is the past, and the other. Person, place, or thing. So that thing can be the concept of time. So there's the split. Me and the other. You want to glide apart even further and take the now right out of it?

It just wastes time when you're not thinking about it. And that's fun. It was a bang. It is so... It's just manufactured. It's manufactured. I understand, like, when we walked in the room, it was now. Now is now again. And they say there's only one now. So why does it seem that there's more than one now? Ahead. Again, ahead. It's just an idea. It's not an actuality. Is that because of the concept of time that makes that happen? Yes. Differentiates between the nows. Totally. It's really, really important to see that. That time is only a concept. You've got to see that. If you see that, all this comparison just drops away.

This week I saw that clearly and I thought, what a mind fuck. I've been really operating around this concept of time, driven by it. Yeah, everyone does. Until you see it for yourself. And I thought, I don't know what existence is without it. I don't know what it is without that concept because it's really imprisoned my existence. Yeah. With the concept of time comes, with the belief in the concept of time comes memory and all your existence and all the things that have happened to me as a human being growing up. Everything. All the traumas, whatever it is, with that. And because we believe in time, we believe that.

But what I am is all my existence. Everything that has ever happened to me in the past. Because there's the belief in the concept of time. And so rather than dismissing or trying to see that I am not all that, that I am not all memory, just come back to what's time? What is that? And when that's absolutely seen through, all that just drops away. You said what is, it just is. It only is. Unopened. Unopened. Unmodified. Uncorrected. Everything is. This is the actuality right now. I had the same experience too this week too, like you. What I saw is we're not moving, everything else is moving, but we're not.

We're just still. Stillness. Stillness itself. Yeah. Yeah. And I said to my husband, nothing is moving. It looks like it's moving, it's not. It's just living still. Upward here, you know, that stillness. I had the same experience this week. And when Bob said earlier, when you open your eyes, what's the first thing you see? I really got that, that it's space, but it's, I'm then kind of looking for concepts to feel that space, and then I believe the concepts are true, whereas it's just space that landed. Another good one is watching without naming. That's what Bob used to say years ago, you know, just walk down the street, see how the mind wants to name.

Watching without naming. One exercise is using God-wicked names that just come to you on the spot, so like name everything differently. Another way Bob is talking about it, and I think that might be actually helpful also, he talks about the body as a transformer, something like, you know, like you have the eternity and totality timelessness that is infinite amount of volt, and then if you want to see the expression of it, you have to use it as a transformer and have a little bulb, because otherwise the totality will just blow the whole machinery. So now, the totality which is timeless, spaceless, through the senses is experienced as time and space.

So through the senses, the same way the eyes and ears create the apparent space in the absolute, the same way the mind creates the absolute. So the mind has to stop, then timelessness is experienced without the translation into time being experienced altogether. And same with the space. The spacelessness is experienced simply by closing the eyes. So this is, this is the way the mind is. And the time is experienced, and the space is experienced, and the time is experienced by the eyes. So the mind is experienced. The time is experienced. This is, this is functional way. Time and space are wonderful. They're beautiful expressions and beautiful translations of that, of that capacity.

And they're greatly functional. There's nothing wrong in planning and there's nothing wrong in seeing, you know, like foreseeing the future of planet or whatever. And, and this, this is part of automatic functioning. This is the part of the way life expresses. Just as it expresses us this moment right now, infinite this moment. It also expresses us chunking this moment into segments of time to make it functional, to, to allow itself to express even further as a planning, building bridges or cities or civilizations. The nature of the mind. Yeah. Yeah. That's its nature. And that, that nature of the mind is nothing wrong. It's absolutely wonderful.

This is the wondrous capacity that life is using to express itself even further, but to recognize it. To know that this is just part of functional capacity and not the ultimate reality, kind of releases, it makes the time free as a tool rather than binding us, us, as a prism. Using the mind instead of the mind using the air. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, we were taught that in school, might be in physics though, but it might be more to do with measurement is what I remember better. It's just the absolute ridiculousness of defining an actual measurement. It's a one meter sitting in London. It's something like that.

And it's just, how can you, you know, if you're measuring it with a piece of wood or you're measuring it with, you know, fine machinery, you know, how can you ever get fine enough to measure your perfect distance? So it's sort of blown apart from you back then. It might be a physics exercise. That might not be a general thing, but it's trying to just all, you can just see that, that nothing, you know, could ever be defined accurately. When I was 10 years old, I was in the now. Absolutely. And now I'm 65. And I'm a student. And I'm a student. And I'm a student.

And I'm a student. And I'm a student. And I'm a student. And I'm a student. And I'm a student. When I was 10 years old, I was in the now. Absolutely. And now I'm 65. And I'm still in the now. In the same now. It's the same now, mmm. Only content's changing, the body's changing, cells are dying, the thoughts are changing, the forms that aren't... Yeah, I still can't understand that. It appears like that, but it's not like that. You can't understand it, because understanding is... With the mind. Yeah. Do I understand all that? No, you can't. Do you know that you are? Yeah. Can you experience it?

Like the way you were feeling as a child, did you feel that you exist? Did you feel that you were you? That sense of presence, that being, that knowing that I am. Like if you remember even the early memory from childhood, when you actually sit and experience, oh yeah, I exist. You can't see your face as you sit as a child, so you don't really know what your face or your body or anything. And the surroundings will be different, but the sense of being, it is the same sense of being. As far as you can remember, there is one thing that doesn't ever change, and this is exactly the timeless, spaceless existence, the way it touches itself in that sense of presence.

And now everything else moves. Yeah, the space. The sounds are moving, you know, the sounds. The sense of being is always the same, I understand that. Yes. When I was 10 and now. Yes. Okay. And that's it, that's the now. Your sense of being is the now. So what happened to the body then and now then? The same what happened to the sounds. What happens to the sounds that you heard 10, 20, 30 years ago? The sound, it starts and it finishes. The birds singing, the trumpets singing, the sounds are gone. The buildings that were built 50 years ago are maybe gone or changed. The body is one of the buildings in the now.

It's having building blocks, the little cells everywhere. It's changing. Everything is changing. The one thing that is not changing, that's the sense of presence, the now, the knowing that you exist. And that's all there ever was. That's all there ever is. The rest is a dream. The rest is the way you kind of catch a glimpse of yourself by creating some sort of illusory, moving, impermanent appearances, appearance of the sound coming and going, appearance of the scene coming and going. I'm in moving sense of self, I am, or the now. And the content that is constantly flicking up, showing up and disappearing. Galaxies coming, gone.

Stars coming, gone. In time, it may be that, oh, this takes such a long time and atom takes such a short time. But that's all interpretation. That's all calculation. In reality, there is timelessness and the time appearing. And the time appearing on it with its content. The other day I was thinking about this time thing, because it hasn't clicked yet. And I was thinking the now and the now say yesterday. And for some, it was just a click. All I could remember was that I almost got it. It's like that's all I could remember, that I almost understood it. But I didn't. No, the mind will always say that, think a little bit more and you will get it.

It's never going to happen. That's what mind always does. It tells you, oh, you got 99% of it. Just keep thinking, you'll get it. Never going to happen. You spend your 100, 200, 500 lives and it's never going to happen. Stop thinking. That's the way out. Stop talking and thinking and there's nothing you'll be able to know. What is? Just as it is in this moment. Unaltered, unmodified, uncorrected. No difference, no partiality, no comparison. And you can see it's only thought or concepts can change the is-ness of it. Without any concepts can you negate the is-ness of being, the beingness right now, just as it is.

Really simple thought, but when we believe in time, there's someone that's born, there's someone that lives, and there's someone that dies. When there's no time, there's no birth, and there's no death. But there's a mystery that's alive. That's alive every moment. So it's not stagnant. That's when we really are. When it's spoken in the room, it's the same now. Well, that's a concept too. Because the mystery is the pure intelligence unfolding in every moment, bubbling forth in every great capacity. So it's alive. It's not stagnant. It's not a now. It's not in a box. It's alive. It's pulsating. So that's it. It's just like the water in a river.

If you put it in a bucket, it's stagnant. Allow the river to flow. But there's no one born and no one to die. Yeah, like the jade of the great clunky brains. The clunky brain is just kind of clunking away. And it's a reality which has no boundary or definition. Exactly. Because the mind is just, can only work in the pairs of opposites. Pleasure, pain, happy, sad, usually. Measurement. Pairs of opposites. The brain can't see. The brain goes, I've nearly got it. I've nearly got it. It's never going to get it. There's no answers in the mind. And also the idea of movement. Like Bob sometimes uses the Shiva Shakti thing, which says that Shiva is actually static aspect.

It's not moving. It's pure emptiness without any expression. And then movement is already there. It's not moving. It's already Shakti, expression of Shiva. So even using the idea as an illustration of a river of life moving, being alive, being throbbing, pulsating, that's already appearance. So that's the only thing that can be experienced is the appearance, is the expression. Because the experiencer is inseparable from the expression. But Shiva is not manifested. It's unmanifested. So they actually... The paradox of pointing, this is where it meets, is static and dynamic. And it's not static and not dynamic. It doesn't exist, yet it appears to be. It's not even really changed.

That's only made up afterwards with two different points. There is no time. But it's not static and it's not instant. It's the mystery. We can never put it. As soon as you put the definition on it, it's not it. As soon as you put a concept on it, it's not it. That's why we find this so difficult. Initially we're told, I'm not that, netty netty. I'm not this, I'm not that, I'm not the thoughts, I'm not the body, I'm not any of this stuff. Post awakening, it's the complete opposite. You're everything. But what is missing post awakening is the imagined self. And it's purely imagined.

It's not actually there. Are there thoughts? Yes, of course there are thoughts. Are you sitting there? Of course you're sitting there. Pre awakening, if you like, we go through this netty netty. I'm not the thoughts. I'm not that. I'm not this body. I'm not creating the thoughts. I'm not the content of the thoughts. Which is quite true. We're not the content of the thoughts. But post awakening, everything is inclusive. But what's missing is the separate self. That goes. Completely goes. Then there's just living and functioning and thinking and experiencing. What drops away is this separate self that constantly lives in desire and fear. Constantly. Because it feels separate.

Of course it's going to desire things. And of course it's going to be fearful. Of course it is. If that was true. It's actually not true though. It's all an illusion. All of it is an illusion. So what do we do here now then? B. Nothing. B and C. I like your answer, nothing. Nothing. Yeah. And you don't need to do anything. You don't need to do anything to be. I feel like I should have said, it's easy to stay in bed and refuse people. It's doesn't really matter what you're doing. Maybe I should have said, why do we come here? You don't have no choice.

You have no say. The thought appears and your body moves. That's not smart. So in other words, us coming here is the dream, part of the dream. Everything is part of the dream. Everything. That's why the mind can't never get it like you said. Yes. All of the questions come from the notion that I'm here to help. I'm here I exist I'm separate all the questions and and so we ask questions that's that's the initial part of it questions will come and come and come you know what none of the answers are actually true you won't actually see the truth of any of the questions that you've got that are bubbling up until you come to see that there's no me no no look the mind can be used initially we use the mind because we need to communicate you know we need to we get told I'm not this okay so I'm not a mother to start up the engine yeah yeah you start out so the engine start yeah once an engine starts in the start of mine is no good yeah yeah so this would say there's a period of time these are History beat.

there's a period of time where questioning will occur but you get to a point where you realize and it's just if you like it's a self-realization you realize that you're not going to get in it you You're trying to hit a brick wall. You're absolutely hit a brick wall. All the questions get asked. And you understand, you come to understand all the answers to those questions. Yet, you still feel stuck. There's still a stuckness that you feel. And you kind of sit in the room, no questions come up, you know, because you've asked them all. Or you've heard them all being asked by other people.

And obviously that body has done the same thing. The what? That body has done the same thing at some stage before. It means you have done the same thing where you're asking those questions to look for. Yes. That's what I'm saying. Yes. So eventually the questions drop. There's no questions. You've heard all the questions. You've heard all the answers. Like nothing comes up for you anymore. That's the point. That's the point where you turn around. And until you get to that point, your me externalizes everything. Still trying to find the answers to this and it grasps. So perseverance in other words, in a way. It just happens.

It just happens. Does that happen to you? Has that happened for you? Yes, absolutely. And how has your life changed? Completely changed. Because that separate self that always felt fearful and was always desiring something dropped away. Okay. Completely dropped away. Because we're not separate. We're the totality. And if we're the totality and not separate, where does fear go? What could I be fearful of? And if I'm the totality and the absolute, what could I desire? What? But how does that play out on a daily basis? You're just being lived. Everything just happens spontaneously right here in the now all the time. And just functions spontaneously.

And you don't have thoughts that take you to the past or the future? No. At all? No. Not unless I'm in communication with somebody else and we start talking about our pasts. Then I can go there. But that entity that I believed myself to be, which is nothing but a product of memory, nothing but a product of past, dropped away. Just completely dropped away. Does that mean I don't have a memory of the past? No. Of course I have a memory of the past. How did you feel when that happened? Relief. Relief, I felt. I felt relief. So you also have been non-denied the idea, you said?

If you have to name it. No, no, no. I said I've been coming here since then. Oh, okay. No, I mean, when you realise you're not in bondage to a false memory of yourself, if you have to name it something, it's a sense of relief. Right. But again, naming it isn't... Right, yeah, I understand that. But that doesn't mean to say that the mind isn't utilised, just like Kat was saying before. You know, the mind's a useful tool. And if it's being used and... Well, you've got a function in this. You've got a function. You can reflect into the past. You can plan into the future.

You know, sometimes the plans don't work. Yeah. They don't work out. But, you know, the mind appears upon that presence that you are that never changes. And that is never changing. That is what it is. You're more accepted than the now. Well, there's no one to accept anything. It just is. See, we go searching for this thing called enlightenment. And in the process of that, we think we're going to get something. And I'm going to achieve something. And as a result, I'm going to feel different. And I'm going to feel better. Now, I've said this before. You actually gain, and I mean that, absolutely nothing.

But you lose this concept of a sense of me. And there's a lot of content in that sense of me. Lots. There's a huge story. You know, like in my case, there's over 50 years of a story in there. And it's going to be loud. And it's quite scared and it's quite fearful. When the truth, if you're prepared to be really honest. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah? It's scary. So how do you function now compared to before? Spontaneously. As far as work-wise and family-wise? Same. Same thing. Yeah. Just a different mentality, like different... There's just no reference point. There's no reference point. So when someone annoys you at work, and they used to annoy you, and now they still...

How's that changed? Sometimes... Do you consider them a limb of your body? And therefore you're more compassionate? Absolutely. In terms of compassion, yeah. Because I can see. I actually know what's going on. So how do you handle that? How would you handle that? How... What? If someone annoys you, they annoy you all the time. Sometimes I might say, you're annoying me. Yeah. Totally. So it does affect you as an... No. No. It doesn't. No. That you're annoying me will just come up completely spontaneously. Okay. Instead of... You're going to deal with it there and then in your speech. Instead of me developing a story around it.

Oh, this person is really pissing me off. And I'll go into a big story. Yeah, yeah. And it might be days or weeks before I eventually say to that person, you're fucking annoying me. But by the time you get to that point, it's really big and it's really loud and, you know. Yeah. As opposed to just whatever comes up in the moment. And it's quite freeing. And how does the other person react when you tell them that spontaneously? It depends on their story. Exactly. It totally depends on their story. But I don't take ownership of whatever it is that comes up in the moment spontaneously.

Even the words that come out of my mouth. You don't take ownership. Of course not. There's nobody here to take ownership. Everything is just happening spontaneously. As it always does. It always is that way. We just think it's not. We think there's a me here that's got choice over what gets said or... It's not. Also, there is another aspect which you actually mentioned but I want to highlight it because it's important. Once you realise that there is no agency there that is running your life and your thought and your reactions, the next discoverer, almost immediately you realise there is no agency in anybody else. So that person who annoys you is basically a set of patterns, personality patterns, that he or she didn't choose to annoy you.

They're just running like a machine completely on autopilot. They don't know what they're doing. Like Jesus said, forgive them for they know not what they're doing. And then you can't blame them. You can't really get angry with them. It doesn't mean that you're going to let them beat you up or spit on you or do whatever. The necessary action will automatically happen and you won't be doing it as much as they are not doing it. I see the example in life. I have one of the clients who is... She's not getting along with anyone. People actually... She's bullying people. People bully her back and they're fighting and she's in tears.

I'm the only one who actually see the mind activity of her. When she comes and she started whining, complaining, attacking and bullying, I'm actually empty space for her. I'm actually receiving her frustration. I see her feelings. I feel her feelings. I acknowledge her feelings. And right away when she gets that automatic frustration offloaded, she starts crying and she relaxes and she's... When am I going to see you again? Because she's charging the battery as she's not being accused, blamed. Because she's not doing it. It's a pattern. It's a personality. It's a machine in a way. But I'm not seeing her as machine. I actually sincerely, deeply love her as myself.

Because I have automatic patterns. The way I'm waving my hands, this is the machine doing also. But the life that created this machine, this is what I'm in love. And I'm in love in this body as much as in the other bodies. Doesn't mean that if someone will come and assault me, I wouldn't slap him back. I may even kill. Who knows? But I will not be doing it. Watch out Bob! Here it goes. Whatever it's machine to do. Yes, I did actually. There's a murder to defend Bob. There was an aunt in the house and then... There was an aunt? Oh gosh, half a million of them.

They were going to kill Bob, were they? I didn't know if they were or not. I didn't want to check it first. That didn't really seem reasonable. The thought didn't come to me. The thought didn't come to check whether they're going to do a harm or not. Anyway, he did the same for me. But what the body will do is... Who knows? Who knows? I mean, gosh, it takes more than a lifetime. And to be separated from the machine to actually know it fully. I'm learning moment to moment how this machine is going to react in every situation. And I'm learning and I'm actually without any...

Because what I used to do, I used to judge this one. Oh, this is unworthy. This is horrible. You shouldn't be so unkind. You shouldn't get angry or irritable. Right now, there is no shooting going on. Now, whatever this body does, the only response is, ah, interesting. Interesting. Interesting. Because this body is not my body. This is one of those bodies. One of impersonal bodies that have impersonal conditioning that was happening throughout every second of their life prior to it if we assume time for the heck of pointing. So this... What it's going to do with someone? It's going to do with someone annoying or someone aggressive.

It will be different every time. It will be spontaneous, fresh and new. One moment, it may take it on board and laugh that, oh, I'm so happy I get you offload your shit because it doesn't really stick anywhere. It just goes through. Like, you want to abuse me? Go ahead. I don't care. And the other time, you know, who knows? The weather will be different or I'll have a period. And the abuser will be slap. I don't know. It didn't happen yet. But there are the probabilities there. It's really what Terry was saying and this is important. We ask those questions. How do you feel?

Because I'm going to feel the same. I'm going to see if I'm already there if I feel the same as he does. It doesn't work this way. Because this is, again, this is using imagination now and going to the mind. Imagination is in the mind. Comparison. Comparison, again. So really, the funny thing is you really gain nothing. You lose the tension and the contraction. But it is almost as if, you know, you sit in a place where there is really intense nasty smell there. After a while, you get used to it. The stink of the ego, the contraction. You're so much used to it that you don't really notice it that much anymore unless it becomes an acute suffering.

And now, the moment the relief comes, like, okay. But after a while, you get used to it also, to the relief. I remember when I had the surgery. I was like, oh, my God. This is so bad. This is crazy. This is so bad. And then I had a meeting with Bob 1 and 1. And then the moment when I saw that what the image was, how it was a bundle of thoughts and how I could never, ever buy into it again and take it as myself, it was a couple of seconds of like, whoa. And then, zero. Nothing. It took me probably about two, four, six weeks to actually notice, shit, I didn't have a thought about the past.

I didn't even realize. I didn't notice it. The transition is so smooth because, you know, there's so much more. There's so much more. because there was a habit pattern of fearing future or planning future and suddenly that habit was absent. How much you can actually notice the absence? It's very unnoticeable, the absence. It's like how can you notice an absence of the tracks on the road? You don't really notice the absence. So to expect that there's going to be a big bang in which you will notice a great difference assumes that there is you to notice and there is something to be noticed. So it always happens differently and it's always fresh and new and it's apart from the sense of relief.

And let's be honest, that sense of relief we experience every night as we just let go of everything to go to sleep. The ego is let go of also. And the moments of joy, every moment when we are grateful or appreciative of something, there is a joy coming and in that joy, that tension is kind of... evened up, it's balanced out. And there is no sense of unamority or the hole or sense of lack. Those are all moments of absence of ego. And honestly, absence of ego is there all the time. Ego is just a belief that is covering up and with that belief comes that sense of insecurity and vulnerability and separation.

But it is just a fake, it's just an illusion. So the moments when that illusion doesn't play out, it's like I am the screen, the base, the basic screen. And occasionally on that screen there may be tension, irritability, anger or the thought, oh I didn't get it, oh I did get it. So they are all just content on the screen. As the screen, I am always and ever plain, untouched, unmovable, unmoving. So to wait for the big breakthrough is really just moment to moment, it's just now. Am I experiencing that contraction right now? Wonderful. Okay. So I am the awareness of the content. So I am the awareness of the contraction.

Am I experiencing the thought? Oh, the thought of a doubt, maybe I'm not undone yet. So I am the knowing and the thought, I'm not undone, is the content. Recognizing content as a content, moment to moment and relaxing back into what I am. That's it. And also it's not even an action because I'm not doing it. I'm not, I'm not, you know, there is no... It's not a demo. It's not a doing happening. It's just basically this screen or the absence or the emptiness, cognizing emptiness. It spontaneously, naturally takes place now. It surfaces. It shows up unobscured. As before, it was always so obscured, so packed with the content and attention, so busy with the whole content that this unobscured emptiness was completely gone.

So you either have rejection and contraction and then you get the confusion of them both taking their turns and it's just stuff popping up. So I've always been, well the last couple of years definitely, always been lucky to see it always popping up. So some ways it works for me backwards and I've always sort of thought that the others are just patterns and they're not at fault in that. But then there's been a wee accusing of the answer going backwards and then there's ownership of that sometime, you know. Yeah. But even that ownership is just another part of the appearance. Yeah, yeah. That's no one but only at the time there's no one.

Yeah. That's interesting. So like, yeah, did it reverse here? So I always thought that no one was to blame for anything. And then there was some blame here and then that. But quite often it's the same thing actually as a pattern too. But then a whole lot of other ownership goes on 24-7. So it's like, yeah, I'm seeing things in reverse quite often. And some of the things Terry's saying is like, yeah, some of those were already there but it's like, yeah, I'm not going to do it again. Yeah. So I think that's interesting. Yeah. So I think that's interesting. Yeah. So I think that's interesting.

Yeah. So I think that's interesting. Yeah. So I think that's interesting. Yeah. So I think that's interesting. But I would say that there's a lot of times that's like, yeah, I'm seeing things in reverse quite often. And some of the things Terry's saying is like, yeah, some of them are already there but it doesn't mean ownership isn't constantly taken on. Like there's quite different ways. And so that when you say it's every moment and you want some contraction, that's the only way through here. It's not even having a moment, it's just now. It's just now. Yeah. It comes down to the less focus on the avoidances and just to want to turn up.

Yeah. Like, you just need to be aware of that. Yeah. So I think that's interesting. Yeah. Like I said, I'm not going to do that. It comes down to less focus on the avoidances and just to want to turn up and more clarity. A couple of weeks ago, sitting with Mary, we had dinner early and everything, we were learning to watch TV and listen to something on the phone and whatever. And at the end of it, she said, we've got to bed. And all of a sudden, I said to her, are you going to eat? And I could tell that it wasn't coming from me.

It was somebody else talking. It was way out of concept. What would I say you want to eat? It just gave me the idea that it was somebody else besides the usual Tony. So it just spontaneously arose. Yeah, that's right. It was just out of character. We'd already got to bed. What would I say you want to eat? So there's the spontaneity. So you saying that didn't need a you there to think it's saying that. No, no. It just came out, popped out from like somebody else was talking. That's it. And that's what happens every second of every day. Everything. It's just totally spontaneous. Yet we feel that there's an individual me there that's choosing to do this, choosing to have thoughts.

Trying to get this, trying to let go of that. Everything just happens completely spontaneously. That that I was saying to you before that there's nothing to get absolutely nothing to get, but there's plenty to lose. Yeah, that the reason that I say that there's nothing to get is because you already are that there's nothing to gain except the dropping off of the illusion that there's a separate many here. That's all. That's all. So trying to gain, trying to get some, you'll do that until you just get so exhausted. Yeah. The idea here that gets said right from the very beginning, you know, there's no one here.

That's what you need to see. Not what does me need to do to get enlightenment? That they'll keep me stuck there. It'll just keep it stuck there because there's a belief there that there's a me here that needs to get something or achieve something. Yeah. The whole idea is to go looking like seriously go looking inside. Yeah. Where is the me? Where is it? Like really? You know, if we, if we believe that there's a, a media that is responsible for all the thoughts that are going on in their head, where is the separate me from those thoughts? Where is it and what is it?

it and what is it what is it looks you need to look you absolutely need to look for yourself try and find the existence of a separate individualized me that believes it's doing the thinking try and find it that's it and that's it seriously that's it and I looked like mid-20s early 20s because people were reacting to my spontaneity and describing it conceptualizing it as impulsive and reactive containing that and I look back at myself as just a natural child as a very joyful spontaneous person being and but I learned to contract all of that because society you know doesn't like that it's frightened of that as well so and I don't want to miss the same spontaneity that you're talking yeah everything is spontaneous including social socializing illusion of a me that is also spontaneous post awakening I am that too get you hit around that because initially I'm not that I'm not that I'm not that I'm not that and it doesn't mean that the social conditioning is anything wrong with that imagine that you have people who are severely traumatized and who are who having murderous instincts you know and then suddenly we say okay it's better not to be socialized and everyone kills each other is crazy it's actually is part of the cultural conditioning in which you are meant to learn how to communicate with others the way so you don't hurt them it's beautiful like if I wanted to stop whoever I felt like slapping because nobody told me you know like develop some empathy these people have feelings too so this is this is gorgeous this is not really it is in a way coming down there's spontaneity but it is coming it down in a way that makes it more functional it means you know the impulses will still arise but even if you look at the society of wild dogs or wolves or monkeys they also have certain conditioning social conditioning because without that they wouldn't be able to form the pack so that that restriction towards this wild spontaneity throwing yourself out with the tantrum on the in a supermatic as a lot of it yeah but when you you know when you're 20 or 30 you will never it's kind of undesirable so this is this social conditioning is also the way intelligence of life creates the big pack of humans and let them cooperate intelligently yeah it is also to be appreciated for what it is so that's and recognize the mind and state of the mind using you exactly that's what what's happening there from that presence that's been utilized the mind's been utilized to make out to make our society more palatable you know i've never understood that how mine being useful a functional thing maybe because i haven't got a bite of my you know to maybe that's my way of functioning um so i've really understood using the mind to me it doesn't make sense you're quite right tony you're quite right it's just that one you're quite right it's just an expression it's just is it like a stepping stone for people to negate something else they believe in or yes it's just a pointer okay yeah it's really just like everything to count something else yeah everything that's said but what you're saying is yeah i just didn't really understand it's dead right yeah yeah yeah it's only a pointer yeah see the way you can actually look at this if if you look at bob before before so-called awakening when he was singing in front of the prince walls and other leading hotels being drunk he was constantly being completely being kidnapped by self-pity's despair self-hatred inferiority that makes you sedate yourself become a drunk and it and it and it makes you violent person and now the realization that oh my gosh there is no me there's nobody here to feel self-pity and then the sense of fulfillment sense of completeness now makes him a compassionate guy who is helping everyone who ask for help and some some of them who don't ask also and i mean you know people call me and they don't say I'm requesting your help.

You know, it's just... So anyway, this is the difference. He's been used by the old pattern of self-hatred completely and right now he's not used by that self-pattern. But he still has the capacity of reasoning and the capacity of communicating and now, as it seems, life is using that capacity in service of whatever life intends. He's not a slave to the pattern. The capacity of reasoning is the mind. The capacity of reasoning is the mind. Don't try to understand it with the mind, Tony. No, I'm just trying to understand why other people are using it. Exactly. And you're using your mind to try to understand it.

It's no point because... I don't care. I'm not trying to do anything for me or non-me. Or others. I'm just wondering in terms of a general teaching tool, where it fits, just out of interest, in case it's useful for me to say, why don't somebody go and... You don't really need to do any of those operations. As Terry told you, you're quite right. There is nobody to... Use the mind. There is nobody to be used by mind. There's no mind to be used. And there is no mind to be used. That's right. But now, how can you highlight that... I'm not going away from it, but I just wondered.

The go or the wonder. Yeah. It's not working at all. It's just... I've got a teaching agent there too. Communication. See, find your own way to point it better because, as you say, there is no perfect pointer. They are all limited. I don't know how other people are using it, and that will then help to point it better when I know why... But I'm... Yeah, find a better way of saying it. That would be wonderful. Wouldn't it come up at the time what you need to do and say? Yeah. What's that? Oh, yeah. If it did come to the point of that, it would automatically come up what you have to say or do.

Yeah, well, it's coming up now also to wonder where it might fit as an interesting thing. Well, it's partly more than that, I guess, because Eckhart Tolle, for example, uses one where he says he's in a sort of still space and then it's like he comes up and the mind starts to organise his plane ticket. There might be a fantastic pointer that points me to this stillness if I really knew what this functional thing was that he was talking about up there, which I don't seem to understand when people use. So it may be a really indirect, useless way of looking for a pointer to the space.

But don't you have enough pointers? I think you do. But this is the thing. I just feel like it comes here, spontaneously comes up. Something might spontaneously come out of here. It just feels utterly spontaneous. Sometimes it's conflict. Like, no, don't ask that. Shut up. And sometimes there's, like, a fantastic pointer that goes away and is useful. And sometimes there's one that isn't. Yeah. And sometimes there's one that isn't. Yeah, and I'm not having a fight with this one. I'm not asking at all because I get this sometimes. I think it's a fun game to actually discard all the pointers, throw away all the books and push away all the holy masters from the pedestals.

I don't think that's really... So that doesn't make sense to me either. It's really just, I'm here, it comes out, sometimes it gets shut down, but that's... And then it's interesting because then there might, there might be a letting go of needing to be on the same page and there might not be, which is probably more fundamentally what's shifting things. Getting to, well, you're letting go of that. And it's just coming up and I'm fully aware of that. So the pointer, oh, don't worry about it, doesn't make sense to me because it's just coming up. But I remember you had, and it was wonderful, it was a really great way that you expressed the way the pointers work with you.

Either the point does the job and shifts you, or it doesn't do the job and doesn't shift you. It doesn't show up. It doesn't show up, yeah. And that's it. So dwelling on all the other pointers, what have I missed or what others understand, yeah, it's just, it's just a modern mind game. It's kind of not in that way that I use it, so there might be a bit misinterpreted. It's really just... So this one you didn't get as a pointer. Drop it. Forget about it. Yeah, but I'm not asking for those reasons. I'm not trying to make a list of pointers and there's no words in here or no phrases around, oh, what pointer will I use today?

That never comes up. It comes or it doesn't. And, but then I find that there's some urge and also some, some eye grasping or not or whatever or mixed up in the package or I notice, I can notice reactions to the eye grasping or the non or just the hearing or just talking and knowing I never planned to say this thing. It's so clear that I'm not. And it just happens sometimes clearly, sometimes really fluffily from here and sometimes great pointers come, some of them don't. And clearly there was some interest in knowing that particular one, which I'm more clarified thanks to YouTube now. And, there's nothing wrong with that coming up because it actually might be really useful if somebody's got a clear explanation of it to give me.

Yeah, it's nothing wrong with absolutely anything. And maybe everyone has a clear explanation to give me and that's cool too. Yeah, it's nothing wrong with anything. See, there's, the whole thing is just. Yeah, yeah. So I don't have a problem with it. It just comes up and I can't even make a story about the universe as decided that's going to come up because it might be useful for our vision. That's a story. The stories don't come up, so. Good. If they do come up, that's good too. Who cares? Yeah, everyone has got a great answer. That's great. Welcome to. It's not to be excluded. Okay, thank you.

Thanks, Bob.