Sailor Bob Adamson - non duality spiel and discussions

Thanks. She's switched on, is she? Yeah, five minutes ago. Hi. Hi. Hi. That's what you were saying the night I was watching. The cat was sleeping. Thank you. Thank you. Okay, you all know each other? Say the names. Tony. Melody. Celila. Robin. Kat. And you all know what it's all about? What we call, for want of a better term, non-duality. Understand right from the start that I can't teach you anything, and I can't tell you anything. All I can do is point to it and ask you to look to where we're pointing to. Just see for yourself. Because that's the own natural understanding, if you recognise it for yourself.

Not what somebody's told you, or not what you've read. Because you can use what somebody's told you and what you've read to test it out when you try it for yourself. And the other way, I can only point toward and ask you to look to where we're pointing to. To see for yourself. When you see what we're pointing to, the non-duality, the one without a second, you realise that nobody can ever teach you anything, and nobody can ever tell you anything. And that's the only way. Because in actuality, there is nobody. It's just the one essence that's patterning, shaping, forming, and expressing as everything. Now the way I put it, I'm not talking to anybody.

I'm not talking to any mind. I'm not talking to that muddy mind entity you might believe yourself to be. I'm talking to that I am that I am. Not the thought or the word I am, but the sense of presence that translates and expresses through the mind. As the thought I am. Just to this. Nothing else. So if you think I'm having a go at you, or something like that, if you don't like what's being said or pointed to, realise it's not the muddy mind I'm talking to, it's that sense of presence. And knowing that you are. Now of all the different scriptures over the ages, the basis of the mind the basic essence of them is pointed to this.

But it gets obscured with people coming along and tearing it apart, adding to it, putting this concept and that concept and it becomes watered down. And seemingly not there in its natural, uncontaminated, pure state. Hinduism for instance, they call it Advaita. Advaita translated means non-duality. And they try and describe non-duality by saying it's one without a second. Not two. And they put that one without a second on because even the idea of one implies that there could be other than one. So to cancel out that idea they say it's one without a second. And that's what needs to happen to recognise that that non-dual one without a second is all that there is.

The Buddhists will tell you the same thing using different terms. But they'll put it as non-conceptual, ever fresh presence awareness. And they'll add on to that just this nothing else. Again, it is its one essence. Non-conceptual, ever fresh presence awareness. Just this, nothing else. Anyone who is not aware of being present right now you say, I'm present. Anyone who is unaware right now, you'll say, I'm aware. So recognise you already and always have been that presence awareness. But it's lost sight of the other concepts, words and ideas, images we put on. All the other religions are pointed to the same thing it's that one without a second.

Christianity for instance, I'll say it's omnipresence, omnividence, omniscience. They're not talking about three things. But three things three aspects of the one. Again look at that. Omnipresence, anyone who is not present? Omnipotence. Realises it's that one power. Not mind power, not thought power, not this power or that power. But the one power that's patterning, shaping, forming this cosmos. An omniscience. Having a look at it all, omniscience means it's one intelligence. And see the way it's patterning, shaping and forming. These bodies and all the nerves, sinews and everything else in. Everything in this manifestation is supplying, is suffused with the innate intelligence. So you'll see it's pointed to in all the scriptures.

Now going back to Hinduism, they say, another way they put it, in the five factors. Existence, consciousness, bliss. Three of them. The other two, Nama Rupa. Another way of putting that, being aware of the stillness or the silence in which is the base in which all this manifestation appears in. Being aware of that stillness. Knowing the stillness. Recognising that stillness. That everything is appearing on the space. And the things that appear on it are pattern, shapes and forms. They're the Nama Rupa. The name and form. So the name and form is what they call, when they talk about this manifestation, they'll say, this manifestation is Maya.

It is an illusion. It's an illusion. It's an illusionary manifestation. And it's a phenomenal manifestation. Look up your dictionary, look up the word phenomena. Definition of phenomena is that which appears to be. So they're pointing to it directly there and then. This manifestation is a phenomenal manifestation. It's appearance only. It's only seemingly so. And it's talking about the, also it's pointing to everything that is the name and form that's your body, my body, all the bodies, all the insects, everything in this manifestation. The stars, the planets and everything are Maya. Illusion. Appearing on that basic stillness. Now the basic stillness or emptiness is what the Buddha called a cognising emptiness.

It's not that we are cognising emptiness. It's that emptiness the basic stillness has the capacity or innate intelligence of cognising. And he pointed it out clearly. He says emptiness is form. All these patterns, shapes and forms are appearing are appearances. Phenomenal appearances on that emptiness. And he turned it round the other way and said the form can be nothing other than the emptiness. So that's why Cartier can't teach you anything or can't tell you anything. All those forms are empty. What can one emptiness say to another emptiness? Can't say anything at all. Can't teach you anything at all. But in speaking about it there may be a resonance in that which is hearing it.

Might resonate and say ah that sounds true or that fits or that's what is and recognise it in himself. And everybody has had a taste of this down through their lives. Where everything's fallen to the place. Things have just worked out nicely and effortlessly. Where there hasn't been all the conceptual imaging and fears and anxieties and stress going on. It has come and it's gone and hasn't lasted long. And that's what it needs to be when they say recognise it. It needs to be recognised again and again until it becomes the obvious and the actual. And there's an absolute certainty that you know the basic thing that they told you.

I am that. That is all there is. That's the Mahavika or the great word. I am that. But people hear that and they don't understand what we're getting at. That is the totality. It's all there is. And we know that in our language. Because don't you say that's a chair, that's a carpet, that's Tony, that's Robin, that's me, that's you. That's the light, that's the mirror, that's the tree, that's the flower. We know that in our language everything is that. And what has happened we've discriminated with the word. Put labels on it. That is the chair, that is me, that's the human form, that's this, that and the other.

But you can't get away from the basic fact of it all. Everything is that. So we've taken ourselves to be this body-mind entity. And we've never questioned it. And the energy of belief has gone in it. From our schools, our parents, our society, our nation. All talk about all labels and words about it. But when you understand the word is not the thing. We've got words on everything. The word is not the thing. Take the word water. Can you drink the word? Can you swim in the word? Can you drown in the word? Can you wash it? You can't. So it's not the thing. Take the word fire.

Can you cook with it? Can you warm yourself with the word? Can you eat it? You can't. What's this word I or me? That we've taken ourselves to be? Maybe when you investigate you realise that I or me those words are not what you actually are. And have a look at that. What does it tell you in the Bible? In the beginning was the word. And the word was with God. The word was God. And then realise all things were made by him with the word of God. And then realise all things were made by him with the word. And there was nothing made that was made.

So everything is the word. And realise this. When did you begin? You'll say I began at birth. But can any one of you actually remember your birth? You can't. Why? Because you had no words when you were born. You couldn't say I was born on such and such a date. Only what you'd been told later on. You had no words. And realising that every word you've ever spoken and ever liked to speak has been picked up along the way. And you're still picking up words to this day. You don't know every word that's in the dictionary. You learn new words as you go. And you can't say you began at birth because you don't remember.

And you didn't really begin until you learnt words. That means you were nine months in the Word room. You were two years around that, a year or two years before you acquired or learnt any words. Somewhere around that age. It's not strictly on that. Some can be earlier. Some a bit later. But when you started acquiring words that's when life began for you. As it says in the beginning was the Word. And realise without that Word you were still a little baby, a little child. Before that a little fetus, a little embryo. And before that the sperm in your father and the ovum in your mother.

And before that you were the essence of the food and the prana, the breath taken by your father and your mother. So it's all the different shapes and forms are come about. The nama rupa. And when it becomes in the body and mind we take ourselves to be real. We've taken ourselves to be a person. We learnt that word person. Where did that word person come from? Doesn't it come from a word persona? An ancient language. Persona meaning a mask. Pointing out we've got this conceptual image on ourselves. A mask. That we take ourselves to be. This person is what I am. But are you a mask?

Are you a conceptual image? What are you without the conceptual image? What were you when you were in the first couple of years of your life? You didn't have the conceptual image. You were living, you were breathing, your heart beating, hair and fingernails growing, food being digested. You were growing, you were changing constantly. And the nine months in the womb before that you were doing it. So you recognise that that life essence has been going on before it was recognised in you. But when you reach the age of about two or two and a half, whatever, you're fussing around your parents, your parents start to teach you words.

Saying your little Johnny or your little Billy, or this, that, the other. And you start to reason. The capacity of reasoning doesn't start in you until you're about two. Two and a half or three. And when that capacity of reasoning starts, you learn words. You learn words like I and me. Parents, school teacher. I, when they say your little Johnny, you learn words I am little Johnny. This is I or me. And so that's when the sense of separation comes about. When we learn words. Up till that point you can't say you're separate from anything. You can't say you're a person, an individual or anything at all without the words.

But now you're reasoning I am little Johnny. And you look out there and see that chair or table out there which I don't know what it is, it doesn't fit little Johnny. So that's not me. That's not I. So that's when the sense of separation comes about. And with that sense of separation comes insecurity and vulnerability. From then on because we can't see ourselves as the chair, the carpet or anything else out there, it doesn't fit. We feel vulnerable about it, insecure. We don't know what it can do to us. So that sense of vulnerability and insecurity comes about. Sense of separation. And that's what's grown ever since that sense of separation individually and the personality.

All sorts of concepts and words added onto it, ideas and images with the way life is flowing. So now we've got this conceptual image about ourselves. I'm Bob, the Australian, the good fella. Had a bad childhood, I was abused. I was unhappy, I was depressed, I was jealous, all these concepts that are added onto that I thought. And form a conceptual image. And the concept is a mental construct. It's not the actual thing. I've taken that image to be real. This is what I am. I'm Bob, the Australian, the good fella. That's what I believe myself to be. And that conceptual image becomes a reference point.

The self centre. Everything revolves around that I. Self centre. And the ego. That's what I'm talking about. That's all that the ego is, a conceptual image. And we've got this ego, we've got to deflate it, we've got to stamp it, we've got to kill it, we do all sorts of things. And very few of them will tell you that it's a fiction. It doesn't even exist. So how are you going to stamp it? How are you going to kill it? How are you going to do anything with it at all? Except recognise it for what it is. A conceptual image. And above all it's a dead image.

Because it's based on past events and experiences, not what is right now. You're not forming that mental image fresh in you right now. You're constantly relating to the image you had about yourself a moment ago, last week or last year. So we're constantly relating to a dead image. No wonder we can't keep up with life. Life leaves us behind because we're relating to that dead image. Can't keep up with it. So everything becomes relative to that image. It's related to that image. And don't you realise that relativity is dualism. It's duality. Relationship or relativity is dualism. And we point out and the scriptures tell us that there is absolutely no duality in non-duality.

It's the one essence patterning, shaping, forming and expressing is everything. There is only that. That is all there is. And that's what we're doing and that's why we get into strife. All the fears, all the depressions, all the anxieties, stressors, guilt, shame, remorse, jealousy, envy. All our conceptual images, concepts and ideas come about because we've taken on the idea that I am this person. This separate entity. This individual. Now you can't do much with I or me. Two thoughts. But what we do, we're constantly believing in it and relating it to what is going on. But everything is the result of this belief in I or me.

So you recognise that me is the cause of all my psychiatric problems, all my psychology, all my fear, all my anxiety, all my stress, all my guilt because I'm relating this me. Me is the cause of this bleeding person and the anxiety, the stress, the guilt, the shame, remorse are the effects of the cause me. Breaking it down to all in simplicity isn't that what they call karma? Cause and effect. And I've got to work on my karma, which is if I don't do this and don't do this and work on it for years and get over it. But what happens if I ask myself this simple question?

Can there be a cause without the effect? If I'm not relating to the cause can there be an effect without the cause? Not relating it to this me, right? Well you don't have to be a Rhodes Scholar to work that out. If you're not relating the cause to an effect, there's nowhere for it to fixate on it, nowhere for it to stay. So it must fall away. And that is what happens when you do investigate it. You recognise it. It falls itself away. So you recognise then that without the cause it can't be effected. Karma is a fiction. It never was there, never will be there or never could be there.

Never have it. Now wouldn't it be imperative that I had a look at this and investigate it and see if this is so or not? Investigate this me. And see if it really has any substance or any independent nature. See if it can stand up and I don't know. How would I do that? Well I'd look along these lines. I'm seeing right now and I'm hearing right now. I'll ask you, isn't that a fact? Anyone who is not seeing? Anyone who is not hearing right now? No, you realise I'm seeing and I'm hearing. And I ask myself this. Does my eye tell me I see?

I realise my eye is not saying look at this bulb, look at that. My eye can't tell me anything at all. So I'm asking myself this. It's got no words, it's got no voice. It's got no sound, it's just there. It is the instrument through which the seeing is happening. And that instrument is translated by the thought, I see. The same with the hearing. Hearing is happening through the ears but my ear is not saying look at this bulb, look at that. Listen to this bulb, listen to that. But it is the instrument through which the hearing is happening. And it's translated by the thought, I am.

So the seeing is happening the hearing is happening the thought comes up I see and I hear. The next question is, looking along those lines can this thought I see actually see? I believe the seeing is happening the thing is happening through the thought I see but can the thought I see actually see? Well, shut your eyes and look around the room and see what you can see with the thought with your eyes closed. You can't see anything at all with a thought. You can picture images in your head but they're not from the actual I'm talking about the actual seeing and what's in the room or anywhere else.

All you'll see with your eyes closed is the darkness behind the lens. So you realise that the thought I see, cannot see. This conceptual image that I believe to be me thinks it's seeing but it can't see. The image can't. Put your hands over your ears see what you can hear with the ears muffled all covered over. You can't hear anything and the ears are blocked down. So you realise also that the thought I hear can't hear. Anybody who is unaware right now, you realise no, I'm not unaware. So if you're not unaware, you must be aware. You don't have to try and grasp a thing called awareness or put a shape or form a conceptual image on it.

The actual knowing that you're not unaware is right with you right now. The thought I see can't see the thought I hear can't hear. The thought I choose we've got the idea we choose our thoughts. But why would you have an unhappy or miserable or sad thought or jealous or envious thought if we could choose a thought? Anybody choose to be that way? So the thought I choose can't choose. So you realise the thought up entity can't see, can't hear, can't hear, can't choose can't do anything at all. It has no substance. It has no independent nature. What substance has the thought got? Where can it stand?

Is it at any static point where you say it starts? And does it stay there or aren't thoughts constantly changing all the time? So this thought up ego can't see, can't hear, can't be aware can't choose hasn't got any power or any independent nature. So it's not a thought up entity it's a thought up entity. So there's your problem straight away. The only problem you've ever had was a belief in an ego a self centre or a reference point that it was only me that could be unhappy only me that could be fearful but you've just seen it all pulled apart and there's nothing there.

You realise that this ego is a fiction. Where are you going to live from if you recognise that? You'll recognise the living will be the same as it was for the first couple of years of your life. Where you're hearing, seeing tasting, touching, experiencing smelling, you had no words and it's the same now. You're breathing your heart beating, your hearing, fingernails are growing your food's being digested all naturally and effortlessly. Anyone doing it any egoic entity doing that anyone saying I've got to take my next breath or I'm going to beat my heart you're not. It's all happening spontaneously. So that's all we point out here and ask you to look along those lines and see for yourself.

Nobody's ever going to do it for you. Now you might have read this studied that looked at this and looked at that thought about this, thought about that and you've got many conceptual images. You've heard many stories and many beliefs probably taken a lot on board and this one's seemingly real and that one's seemingly real but look again and see how real they are and when people hear this they want to hang on to some belief or some idea and that's the concept. It'll be what about this, what about that but all the time you're sitting there that heart's beating without taking a single thought about it you're taking a breath without thinking about it all sorts of thoughts and chatter have been coming up in your head you might fixate on some you might let others go but realising that living is spontaneous there's no one there that can say that I am I I am alive but you can say that I am is life that's what the Christ told you a couple of thousands of years ago he said I am the way I am the truth I am the life talking about it's through that sense of presence the I am-ness in recognising and investigating that you'll come to the truth the way and the life come to recognise it and realise it so if you've got any questions or tell us some of you who've studied it here or recognised it here and heard it before and can give put it in different words which might be a bit clearer for you to understand some of you might be struggling some of you might be mightn't have a bar of it or whatever it is but it's up to you now it's all yours, you can take it over from here that's a short one but always come back to the Sat Chit Ananda being knowing loving to be and the Nama Rupa the name and the form basic mantra I am that that is all there is as I say we know it in our language that's a chair, that's a carpet before we learnt words and named it a chair and carpet it was that and it still is that you and I are that everything else is that which we put labels on the word and taken the word to be real I heard that Tassie is a regular and she has a phrase today she says I didn't tell myself anything about it as soon as something comes to mind but the next step doesn't happen you don't like you know there's not a comment made about what just occurred that's really nice that's the way to put it it really means a lot to me because that's how it is for me sometimes because I'm lucky I've really been noticing the whole that whole body tense and then a package of some kind of thought story thing but it's just this whole package goes into tension a lot of the time it's just triggered into the building up of the tension phase of a cycle release and relaxation and then today I was because I was noticing it the release was the noticing oh that was just all tense and then it drops again and then it's all tense again and just every little thing but I noticed the release was the and that's the way that nature functions doesn't it contracts and relaxes heart expands and contracts breath inspire and expire and even if you're stuck in one a lot it's still just natural natural spontaneous way of vibrating or expressing day and night winter and summer sounds like a dig in the mind shouldn't it dripping of blood and then you're out there you're out of the jewel world yeah it's all appearance that's all the world is we're successful you can tell yeah hasn't come around the corner yet since the smell was a negative that's not that's a meter to tell how powerful it is I was calling the body shit factory was it Moctananda or someone yeah very disrespectful way of looking at the body you know it's a miracle of life presenting itself in that form but it's also very practical word the truth it takes the I'm so special out of it doesn't it I think that Tony was mentioning noticing the contraction this is one of the probably the smartest practical way of of realizing the change the constant change because what we do for most of the time is we focus in the thinking and the thinking has impact on the body because the thinking would be most of the time personal and catastrophizing or whatever something that usually is thinking about me or either poor me or great me or whatever but when you can actually and that's a gift if it happens when you can shift the attention to the impact that thoughts have on the body you can sense the contraction or you can sense the stress or you can sense the any sort of a body response to it even the change in the breath the attention right away is kind of shifted from the head to the body and then the head doesn't get that much fuel and the fire burns slowly slowly out and then the thought is not trouble anymore and actually making it a habit and then you can recognize what is going on in the mirror in that transmitter receiver thing it's a fantastic help to actually just be more grounded in the present moment because the bodily sensations are not that well available through the memory they are actually happening right now like right now I can tell something about my breath I can't tell much about how my breath was an hour ago or any sort of a contraction even if there is no contraction just remembering to really focus on the muscles around the eyes or the posture, the way you walk any sort of a reminder about the body is a fabulous way to actually start that fire burning in the head and just distribute that attention more evenly because instead of having it all in the head it goes into the senses because the body and its senses are all in the head that's what Bob is pointing when he says the Buddhists are saying it right the being utterly awake with the senses wide open an unfixated awareness you want to pick up from here?

here be utterly awake with the five senses wide open like everybody is awake now when the five senses are hearing, seeing tasting, touching, smelling and they are all going on in this moment but how many have been noticed? most of them will be involved in the thinking while the hearing, seeing, tasting, touching, smelling are pushed in the background and from that point of view we are not living totally be utterly awake with the five senses wide open be utterly open where all the senses are functioning equally and being recognized equally and being recognized equally and being recognized equally and being recognized equally and being recognized equally with unfixated awareness we are not fixating on one to the exclusion of the others and it's in that that it's all there but it needs to be recognized you've had a taste of it all through your life but it's lost sight of and that's why I say recognition the more it's recognized the more clarity is there and the more it's recognized the more it becomes a continuous cognizing cognizing but when we lose it and we get back into the head stuff again and seem lost and out of the way we are back in our old problems again and that happens because we've reinforced those problems all our life not only us but our schools around us our parents, school teachers everybody else will reinforce it for us and it's seemingly very strong and solid but understand that that's another thing we put on it something comes up and we say this is a strong one well this habit is a strong one but there's only one power there's only one power it can't just be feeling or thought or whatever emotion be a strong one we're giving something a seeming power because we believe that it hasn't got and we suffer accordingly because of all these splits we make continue to recognize it in its totality no matter what see how much time you've got then for fear, anxiety, stress, guilt remorse, shame any of those things those sensations might come up not fixated on not given any extent they can't last because it's all spontaneous emanation it's all continually transient, constantly changing a manifestation is constantly changing the basic essence it appears on is never changed never can and never will there's no beginning no end, no birth, no death no shape, no form just there in its purity uncontaminated or corrupted by anything that appears in it pure, pure, pure being that you are and recognize that being as pure you call yourself a human being if you believe in a God you'll call God a supreme being what happens if you take that label supreme off and take the label human off and try and separate the beingness that's in this room if you can't put a label on discriminate, there's just nothing but beingness in this room isn't that a fact?

so what can you be other than that? you must be that because you haven't divorced yourself in the room or gone out there or even if you did wherever you went it'd be that pure being I suppose fixation comes back to what Tess was saying about you don't tell yourself anything about something so there's a sound but you don't say anything about it you know something else comes to attention and nothing's made of it at all and then the next thing can come in and then it's not fixated I guess that's that the other way to say it you can say not only you don't tell yourself anything because you don't really tell anything I'm not meaning it like that but the way that I would find more precise to actually point at the phenomenon is not only you don't tell yourself anything but even if the thought does come up it's not you telling it but even if it does come up you basically just ignore it and you're not telling it which is notice it and just So the next step of not saying anything about it doesn't happen Yeah, and even if it does happen then you don't have a comment over that comment So you're not unhappy over your unhappiness you're not judging your judgement Stop the analysis paralysis Thought is beyond thought Thought is not the enemy, understand that This room was a night air and somebody's mind went from the computer to the television It's not the enemy but it needs to be understood Where we believe we are the thought up entity the thought can be utilised All the famous inventions and all the rest that came up through the thought somebody's mind went through The thing is people said I invented that But could they have listed a finger, turned a screw, drawn a line or moulded anything if that life essence wasn't functioning, patterning through that body It couldn't It's utilising the body and the mind and expressing through the so called mind, the brain and everything else The life essence is expressing through it and utilising that pattern the human body and all other bodies You have to understand that the word's not the thing and you can use the word then and that's what we do we all use words but when we let words use us by telling me I'm not good enough I'm fearful or I shouldn't be saying that or what do they think of me Just like we use the finger to point the moon but we don't touch it You were saying before that you moved on to sensations from our seeing the tense body and the package of the words and they're just all a package but it's kind of quite nice in a way when that happens because in a way you talk about steps sometimes but going to the sensation is like a step to reveal something and it's kind of nice when the whole habit starts to be seen as a package because then it's like disintegrating more because that's habitually what comes in the typical patterns of words and body and it's quite nice whereas the shift back to for me the shift back to sensation is often more of an interim step away from the busy mind or something It doesn't necessarily reveal the persistent package but it's a way to move on and it's not as much but it's still very useful when it pops up But that's exactly what it is It's actually not a step towards It's a step away from Like if you are completely engrossing a story in the mind you are in the I don't know how many layers of a dream over a dream and then you step back to the reality of the senses and then you step back to the awareness of the reality of the senses and yet you still you know it's like you step back to your life and you're still in the process and you're still in the process and you're still in the process and you're still in the process of being left with nothing It's like a break It takes you to nothing there but when you're starting to see how something keeps coming in and then it goes to nothing that's a crinkle because the habits are starting to really be But isn't that looking at a conceptual idea again?

No, actually not No, it's an experience that comes up It's just that Just like that It seems to me the sensations that's the natural living of the body isn't it? Yeah And that's what we experience in the body Thinking is just another sensation if you like Yeah, we label it thinking All these sensations are labeled What about pre-sense? Pre-sense Pre-sense Before Before you've labeled the sense Before you've labeled the sense Is the sea doing its thing? But I guess reveals Senses, don't you maybe? Yeah, it's just a tension It's a quality maybe Some stories, some phrases And it's just Sometimes you see the environment actually triggering it in Sometimes it's just already started From the very word transform Well isn't that what happens I mean I mean There is an awareness that you're not You're not just doing the awareness That the mind comes in and chatters about this And comes up with a story about it But in actual fact This is a bit just like watching a movie of Carl Yeah And this has got no control over that whatsoever Yeah It just happens And so stops really talking about it because it realises that there's no...

it's just a story, it's just an appearance. And when that happens, the agenda, all the agenda drop. There isn't anywhere to go, there isn't anywhere to... there isn't anything to say and sometimes I'll sit here and I think, well, I'm not really quite sure why I'm here, you know? I mean, I am, but you know. Best movie in town? Well, that's good, Tom, that was good. Yeah, even though you're not quite sure you're there, you can't negate yourself, can you? You can't negate it. All it is, you can't say. Somebody hanging over an inkstone and running around. Cats are not really sure why it's here either, just turned up one day.

The cat's providing all the pointers to me. Yes. The cat is. Yeah. Yeah, they are abiding in a natural state. They're not relating to the me of the memory, which is an ego. And they're not objectifying. Yeah, and they are not judging or entertaining themselves with the story about things. It's amazing how the cats are... completely with their body all the time. They have this special fur, I don't know how it is called in English, but this big, long and white fur. And when the cat lies down, it can sense every movement of the air. Like you can pass and you move the air, and the cat is totally, fully aware of the body.

And it seems like it's sleeping, but it's totally alert also. They're fascinating creatures, how here now they are, how present, fully present. And they actually, they have phenomenal hearing and phenomenal sense of smell. Like they can sense when I'm coming home a few minutes before I'm coming. They must hear parking the scooter in the garage. Bob says they always give me away. They run to this door or the other door when I'm about to come. Yes, they can sense it. But because they don't distract themselves from the senses, they don't sit in ahead and have the stories about things. They just... Fully awake. Years ago I was in LA, and I flew in on my way to Orlando to work, and I was sleeping in my girlfriend's bed, and this voice said, there's going to be an earthquake, you'll be okay.

The airport will be closed, but you'll get the flight in the following afternoon. That's exactly what happened. But the first thing that happened was the two cats that were on the bed, me and my friend jumped under the bed. And they picked it up ten minutes before, the earthquake actually happened. The tsunami. So they knew already, which is amazing. Yeah, with tsunami, many wild animals are running around. The ceiling cracked. Yes. In the fires also. Interesting. Many dogs howl an hour before an earthquake. So they... That's, I think, maybe it's not even a question of that they are connected, they are one. Oh yeah. Absolutely in tune.

There's no one to connect. It's just the one. Yeah, and so are we. We just habitually destruct. And that's not knowledge. You know, it's like the aboriginals, they could read, you know, what fish was coming into the ocean by seeing a particular flower open on a particular day. So somehow that wisdom translated. And that was all the one moving within the one microcosm. Which is amazing. I think it's amazing. Yeah, dogs have to be better hearing than us. They're just not tuned in. The connection. So it's not even pausing or interpreting or... It just is. It's just all connection in one. Pointing out that everything is one essence, and expressing it as everything.

Yeah. I was a teacher, I was talking to her about exactly that. And I was talking to her about how I really like being with nature. And she was saying, not being with nature, you are nature. You are nature. You're. Don't be nature, you are nature. Beautiful. Yeah. Yeah, it's like there's no me in this room that gets this. And if a me thinks they got it, they didn't get it. And we go into it to be with it. To be with it. They are it. They are it. Yeah, exactly. Beautiful. How did you land up at Bob's? I've heard about Bob's for a long time.

And you live in Melbourne? Yeah. Okay. So the intelligence picked you up. Yeah. And dropped you. The friend showed me a photo with him on Saturday night. Nice. Beautiful. He's still trying to digest what he said throughout. You have to come a few times to dig it. And it's a good thing actually not to digest it. It's because analyzing, how did you say it Bob? Analyze, thinking, analyzing. Analysis, paralysis. Oh yeah, analysis, paralysis. Or the intelligence. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Okay. And you listen in. Yeah. Yeah. We meal the...

Yeah. answer. And read more on what you made. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Also we will talk about like this. So like you talked about awareness. Yeah. What kind of awareness do we have? Yes. So we need to know enough to know the language of the pointers. But after that... But... But yeah, the truth is, very often the mind is kicking in. And it has to exhaust itself before it's shut down. And... Just recognise mental noise as mental noise and leave it be. Yeah, I suppose I'm more asking from presence, awareness, attachment, non-dualism, all these theories that are new, they're words, they get interpreted, so you need to make some sort of sense of them, otherwise they're just another word, so they point to something.

You want to have clarity about what the concept is. Sure. You haven't done your pause of thought today, have you? The pause of thought and what's wrong? Did you bring out that? Not yet. They will come. Yeah, but you're right, we totally have to have vocabulary, that we agree on the language, because there's so many fights over many, many, even if you look at the religions, people kill each other about God, because their God is... It's not a belief. Yeah. Dogma. Yeah. So to agree on the language that with this word we represent or we mean that, that's helpful. Without that... That's not helpful. The thing to do is recognise the art of listening.

Yeah. Most of our listening comes from head to head. You'll have a concept about me, I'll have a concept about you, when we start listening from the heart. And we're not talking about the physical heart, because that's not going to do anything to you. The heart being the core of your being, and the centre of the spirit. And you know what a heart to heart is, because you've heard somebody tell you, boring out of the sand, telling you, and you relate it to somebody and you say, my heart went out of the... In other words, you opened up and resonated with what was being said.

And then there's communication. That's when communication happens. Let that reservation happen. And the words will take on a different meaning, and we'll be going a different way. But, I was going to say, but I'm grateful that I could give all my life, that I could give all my butts to you, Bob. Because the mind is a very strong... I'm really grateful that I could give my butts to Bob. Because you know, you're like chipping away. Chip, chip, chip, chip, chip. I gave up smoking years ago. I don't want to be butch. Seriously? But there's something incredibly powerful to reveal. It's like, turn every stone. You know, not leave anything behind.

Even the trickle of doubt, or the trick... Anything. Just expose it. Open it. Surrender. And that's a part... that's powerful. So, yeah. Come with emptiness and don't hide. Yes. No agenda. Maybe not a power natural, and maybe it also is. Yes. And then it's simple. There's a... there's... The appearance, it's not true, but there is an appearance of burning. And under every stone is what's there when you're not thinking about it. Yeah, that's ultimately the answer. But on the beginning, yes, that answer is... It may be a little bit too confronting. Like, if someone comes with the story of personal trauma, or some problems, they're hungry, or their children, or whatever, and you tell them what's true if you don't think about it, it's valid.

But it's not sustainable. Because the obsession is too strong. This is what it's about, though. But even though it takes a long time for that to reveal more often, it is what it is about. Yes, absolutely. The thing that Bob offers every time. This is the compassion. This is the heart. Every time you are offered completely full answers. Not that you're going to serve the Guru for 12 years by shoveling the... And then you will be told that you are that. No, you're being told that right from the beginning. But on the beginning, you usually can't hear it. On the beginning, you have to have all the bugs and answered questions from the mind.

But still, whenever he gets a chance, he will remind you. What's wrong with right now if you don't think about it? Nothing. Oh my God. So the problem... And everything that is wrong comes only from thinking. What's interesting, though, is that just about everybody can do that one. Just about everyone... There's maybe one person who says that doesn't work for them. But practically everyone who comes in the room can do that force of thought and see what's left and say, well, it's just this or just a visual or whatever. That's pretty powerful, I think, that just about everybody has access to that, you know, the reality of it.

True. Into that moment. Well, there's nothing simpler, is there? No. What can you say without a thought? That's true. Yeah. Do you have a formal practice anymore of meditation or was that a part of your life? It was a part of my life. I've been left behind a long time ago. I went through all the usual. Years and years and years. Yeah. Searching sincerely and earnestly. And when it fell on my knees, the answer's not in the mind. No. No. It was in the thought. I'm not looking for anything else. That's only a part of my life. See? Yeah. But, you know, we look at these things and we're intelligent people.

Hmm. And why haven't we found anything? Am I just doing whatever it did on me? No. I'm looking in the wrong direction. I have been looking in the mind all these years. I've been trying to work it out, but I couldn't find it there. And when you ask yourself what way is there out of the mind, the only way out of the mind is full stop. Whatever way I go in the mind will always be in the mind. The only way out of the mind is to take a certain meditation. Yeah. To be in the mind will always be in the mind. And ask yourself, what way is there out of the mind?

The only way out of the mind is full stop. Whatever way may go in the mind will always be in the mind. The only way out of thought is full stop. Just don't go there. It doesn't mean that they, the thoughts won't continue to come up there. They'll come up there. You'll see that you actually get the real meaning out of it, which you couldn't get before. Yeah, to get the real meaning actually, it's even helpful to do that little survey through the life. I was searching through the most traumatizing moments of my life to actually check if that's true, that if I don't think about it, there's no problem.

Like I was driving the ship and suddenly on the ocean going to port, the ship was empty. There was no fuel anywhere in the tanks. There was nearly no draft. And I got the comment to turn the ship. And I did turn it two degrees just to avoid the situation. And then I got pushed, no, no, turn it properly. So I turned five degrees. And the ship started heeling and heeling and heeling. And things started falling off the shelves. And people started falling on the floor. And it was clear and evident for everyone that the ship is going to capsize and we're not going to get out.

And in this moment, if I ask myself what's wrong with right now if I don't think about it, and there is no thought of catastrophe, of dying or getting over or being finished, what I find out and what I did find out in that moment investigating further, yes, there will be a sensation. If I don't think about it, I won't call it fear. There will be breathing going on. There will be holding onto something as the ship is heeling and trying to capsize. Sure, that was, the situation wouldn't be comfortable if I had the words to call it comfortable or uncomfortable. But without the story in the head, this is the moment as it is.

And there is no problem. It is just the situation as it is. Or many other situations in my life when my ex-husband broke his neck and it wasn't very, very clear that he's going to make it. It was quite probable that he's not. And many, many other situations where you kind of like, ah, even without socks, you know, I'm being locked in a container in Nigeria with the two black guys with the guns pointing at me. Of course there is a problem even if I don't think about it. Really? And then I checked the life through all these situations and no, there wasn't. There really wasn't.

There was breathing going on, seeing was going on. The content of the seeing was dark container or whatever. The hearing was going on and the content was whatever. But without the story that there is a problem, even if that was about, I was about to take my last breath and I was about to be shot or raped or whatever. So what's the problem if I don't think about it? People dying every day, animals dying every day. That's what's happening. Without the story of it, it's just breathing in and breathing out and not breathing in again. What's the problem without the story? And now if I project it further to the whole life, of course a lot of shit is going to go.

Like if I'm going to live a little bit longer, everything is going to show up again. And if I won't call it a problem and if I won't compare it with the situation that I would prefer or I think it should be there, not a problem. Every situation and every moment is totally livable. It's just the content of five senses happening and being known by the basic screen or the awareness. Okay Kat. So this is my problem with that. You know, like, and I know this is the mind working, but you know, somebody's child runs out into the road and a truck runs over them and they're dead.

That's not an appropriate thing to say to them. You know, they want compassion. They want... Well, you wouldn't say. No. That's what she... The completely opposite is being said. What's wrong with right now if you don't think and talk about it? If you do think and talk about it, you run into trouble. You go and you tell the mother of a child that was just killed that, oh no, don't worry about it. That's thinking and talking. So you shut up. They're still not showing compassion. Don't think about it. You see, showing compassion is to just shut up. Don't tell her anything. Don't teach her anything.

No, I didn't say it was. I didn't say it was. I said to tell somebody in a situation like that that if you don't think about it, where's the problem? I don't think that's... You know, I just... But you have to tell yourself, not others. The thing is, see, the whole thing about the quad is what's wrong with right now if I don't think about it. There's nothing wrong with the quad. It's not what's wrong with right now when you don't think about it, or you, or you. It's none of my business what problems you are thinking. This is about me. The whole thing is about me.

So if my child was killed under the truck now and someone will tell me don't think about it, I would say fuck off, mind your own business. Yeah, that's right. But if I say it, that's a different story. Yeah, that's fair enough. That's OK. I've got to accept. Yeah. Yeah, the what's wrong with right now, don't think about it, it's for you, isn't it? Yeah. It's not for someone else. Yes, I don't think about it. I see what you're saying. OK, got it. Yeah. Yeah, but good point. I like that you are coming from compassion and from warning for other people. Yeah. And trying to clear it as much as possible.

Yeah. OK. Yeah. There's a situation where I did it, there's a spontaneous act. But anyway, there's no reason in a matter of really. You know, you do things and you wonder, how the hell did I do that? Why did I do that? You hear people, I bet, run up to cars when they tip over. Rip open the door, they couldn't rip open, you know, if they tried ordinarily, they got super strength and do all sorts of different things like that. They're not thinking what I'm going to do. They're just doing it. Yeah, yeah, sure. And people don't also, they don't know what they're going to do.

They think they know, but they don't. Yeah, I know that. Yeah. Yeah, people also think they know what they're going to think, and they don't. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And that's the beauty of it. That's the adventure. It's much more natural. So grief is still there in the same situation like that, without the thought. Your body's still there. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And so if you're in the same place and trying to support, your body still feels absence and . Oh absolutely. Yeah. Even the body of cats and dogs, they are threatened when they lose the sibling. Right. Or the pilot. The other one will die if the.

That's right. But without the decease, like Bob talked about. Mm-hmm. You know, like an animal, like you said an animal loses a child or an offspring, whatever it called it. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. And like- It's still aware of the absence and- Yeah. Yeah. The sanctuary. Yeah. They also get hormones. They get oxytocin like cow, that the children of cows are being taken away so we can have milk. They actually get bigger release of oxytocin than human mothers. So the pain coming from the hormonal structure of the body is comparably larger. Well, it's the natural functioning. Yes. You know, without the stool. I was shifting some cushions one day, I was just too tired and I didn't have the space to.

I wasn't thinking much. And I wasn't thinking and then, oh my god, everything shifted so quickly and so well. I just liked seeing it, you know, it was just hailing my day. What you call were saying that, you know, that people, you can't tell people this or that. I got a question under one of the videos. A friend that I met a year ago, he asks, what do you mean that we can't teach you anything or we can't tell you anything? It makes no sense. Of course people can teach each other things. Tell each other things. But he just missed out on that one word when Bob says we don't teach anybody here.

And we don't tell anybody anything here. It doesn't mean we walk out of the door. We can teach, we can learn dancing, singing, whatever. But here. And this is really the point. This is when we say that you've got to really investigate for yourself. You've got to find the answer for yourself. You can't give anyone the answer. Even offering somebody. Yes. Who is suffering or not suffering. Unsolicited satsang is actually, is arrogant. Because this type of things, someone who is to listen to it, their heart has to be in it. Otherwise they will find much more of a solace and ease in whatever religion, promise of heaven and hell or whatever.

Every pattern is so different. And respecting that they may have different needs and different tastes means not to actually force non-duality to anyone. That's why Bob never goes and advertises himself or he doesn't speak to people in a trum about it. Unless he is asked. This is something that shouldn't be. And perhaps. And particularly in a situation when someone lost somebody. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Oh gosh. Yeah, yeah. It's interesting, you know. It's, you hear things and mostly, mostly I think I sort of understand them. But sometimes I miss here, you know. And you, it's nothing to do with this. Yeah. Or this. It's to do with a, it's to do with what I hear as a sort of a blanket statement.

And it actually doesn't apply. And I'm assumed that it's meant to apply. And I think, no. Not that. And that's brilliant because you see this, this is life. If you miss here something and you bring it up in public. And then there are people watching us, some people in Europe or in America, they may have the same quote, the same question. We don't know why this answer or this question comes up. Yeah. But it, it always, it's, it's not what we think it is. Yeah. It's always much, much broader perspective. Yeah. And this is very important clarification. That's why, you know, Bob often says ask questions.

There are no stupid questions. Yeah. They all clarify something. Yeah, yeah. Sometimes, you know, you, you hear yourself saying something. And, and it sounds ridiculous. And you don't even know why would I even say such a thing. And then suddenly I hear someone responding to it. Because they have strange way of resonating with strange sorts of words. And that, those are not my words. That's just life expressing. And it, who knows what is it for. It's, it's perfect. You're saying that, were there a few months there where you didn't say much? But everything you thought of, somebody else would bring it up. Oh yeah. It, it was happening.

Oh my gosh. I was actually practicing not opening up my mouth. I wanted to just shut up and listen. Yeah. And it never worked because it's not really up to me. But very often I would just wait, wait. The strong urge to communicate something would show up. And I would just ignore it and wait and wait. And somebody else would pick it up because it is really all frequency. This is all just vibrating patterns of energy. And thoughts are vibrating patterns of energy. Very often Bob would just open the mouth after a couple of minutes of silence and say exactly the same thing. That I was trying not to.

So it was the life wanted it to be heard. It wanted to show up. Whether I do it or who else, whoever else, who cares? It's just one life. And like some, on Sunday someone brought up something about trauma and about three or four people trained in that area in the room. It was just weird. There was just that group in there. Amazing. Yeah. There are a few little things like that. I remember once, I mean this, this stuff often used to be called the understanding. Yeah. I mean, yeah. Understanding is what we're doing. We're talking about the understanding. So how do you deal with the understanding?

Okay. What do you do? Do you use your heart or your hands? You use this. And you know then, so this is the understanding. But the answer isn't up here. That's very confusing. Yeah. You're right. You're right. Yeah. This is the word on which we all agree that it has different meaning. Yeah. Yeah. We are talking about non-conceptual understanding. Yeah. Yeah. And the understanding that you are. Yeah. Yeah. Even if you don't think about it. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And it's stupid thinking about it. Yeah. Yeah. And that's not in a head. Your head doesn't know anything about the fact of your being.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It's a.. That last one for me, that point you made about full stop. That I don't know where to go from there. That's.. Forever effect. Yes. That's it. That's it. Everything was shoulders egg with Sun... ..on this BCNV album, that does all I'm saying. It's so simple but the mind does. Romans out there saying... Zero control and chains because once the mind is about conditions got like a sitting practice on sort of like. It's just sitting in it, sitting and I'm just wondering whether, because my mind is still extremely active, whether I need to do more. But when the full stop and you couldn't go any further.

But the feeling comes up. So that might come up later. Bob says that the feeling came up to go and see the Siddhartha, just a natural. Yeah, I think recently I had Adi Shanti, which people might be familiar with. Listening to him, I've been meditating for a long time and using all these different types of methods. But he just spoke of sitting without, just forget about the meditator, just forget about any sort of method, just sit. Yeah, in Japanese Zen they call it Shikantaza, just sit, do nothing. Yeah, I think in Tibet it's like a Shinye. Free gazing, I don't know that. But it was just, yeah, it was quite interesting just sitting there with no sort of method and watching what the mind.

Doesn't matter what they call it. Dude. You have to be done. Yeah, and they say you actually, that's not a practice really, because you're not going to arrive at anything. You just basically. Not seeking. You just are, yeah. For me it's sitting on transport and not picking up my phone or my book. And then seeing if I was storing for the last 20 minutes. Well, I mean that just comes up. Shit, I was storing for the last 20 minutes. But there's still no way to pick up the phone or book, that's noted and that's there. That sitting for real life. The real life is the sitting.

Yes. You know, instead of having this sort of like. Preparation. Yeah, it probably helps and supports, but taking that boundary away and realizing just do it. Yeah. It is what it is. Bob calls it non-destructive, non-meditation. So the life becomes meditation. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It's moving from the living room to the toilet to the train. You know, eventually things going on. You can have a little bit of that too. What's right for one person. Funny when I look over that side of the room, a word comes up and I don't make any meaning of it. I don't know why. It's probably where I was fixed when that conversation was happening.

But it was just, yeah, like words could come up and I'm always probably making meaning of them. Because this mind isn't very good at seeing the difference between labelling and not labelling. And, but yeah. I can really see that. I can really see that a word's coming up and nothing's done with it. You know? That's quite true. And those moments when they've got the list. Yeah. And when you see that sometimes the words come and nothing is done with them and sometimes the words come and things are done with them. And this is both equally unimportant because this is both equally just content of the dream, just content of thinking.

It's like, it doesn't matter whether you see more objects in the seeing. Mm. Or you see less objects. And it doesn't matter whether you hear more sounds or you hear less sounds. Yeah. So now you've got the words coming up and there is no another layer of meaning made of them. Mm. And that kind of feels like, oh, now it's better because it's more silent or it's more quiet. But it's not really. I think I don't really do that. But I was just thinking what do I do is make, you're making me think that what you're saying. Mm. I think what it does is it just shines the torch more fully on the non-meaning making.

And that becomes a part of the process. And then that becomes less interesting than the TV or the other distractions, the daydreaming. Oh yeah. I, I, I honestly admit I do have preference to the silence over the chatter. Right now this is what is happening. When I hear more of a silence, there is more of appreciation to the silence. It's like a natural appreciation but there's no comment that it's better. Yeah. Mm. There's not even a thought that it's better. There's just a. Yeah. I, I don't know. It's enjoyable and that's just what it is and there's just nothing more than that. Yeah. There's no comparing to something else.

Yeah. But you go all the time and just get like, ah, that's all right. It's like you were saying, yeah. There's no different value in either. Yeah, because in, in either that's just the content. That's just, just like a content of hearing. But yeah, well I do, I don't particularly enjoy the noise, loud noise of the tractors coming or vacuum cleaners or whatever. or whatever, so what? It doesn't matter. An incident that happened. You've got such a warm smile. It's been used right now. Bob, how would you define compassion? You know, Col was talking about compassion, passion, really. Yeah, because I find compassion a hard word to work out too.

Yeah, is that not related to an I? Isn't that someone's idea or something? It's a part of functioning. We have mirror neurons in the brain, and those mirror neurons basically work as an empathy. But empathy is not compassion. Empathy is relative. Yes, but then empathy steers compassion. When you look at someone and you see someone crying or being in pain... But again, that's my question. What is compassion? Response to empathy. It's a part of functioning. Well, it depends how you define it. Compassion, spoken with a capital C, has got no direction or anything. It's non-dualistic. So it's emptiness, really. It's an ally to love, isn't it?

It's sort of like... What happens? Sometimes love arises, doesn't it? It doesn't arise towards anything. There's just love. There's nothing else. It's one. Beautiful. And in the same way, compassion does. Because when real compassion arises, the mind's not active. There isn't a me. When compassion arises, there's just that. Now, if the mind thinks about it, the mind comes in, then there's me who's being compassionate over this. And then that's dualistic. So it depends how you talk about it. OK, Bob wants to say something. A natural compassion will arise, but when we put a label on it... Yeah, and agree on the meaning also. But in the actual activity, it can be described as compassion, like any word.

Description is never to describe. And that's not the territory. I suppose if the mirroring isn't happening, you know, I'd have a little thought, oh, I must be not terribly compassionate at all, because they felt that and it didn't mirror here at all. So does that mean there's just not enough space and therefore the mirroring isn't happening, or maybe some conditioning isn't there, which is an empty thing and... Oh, yeah, it's many factors. There are people who are kind of missing that mirror neurons. They're called psychopaths. Yeah. But that's not their fault. It's the machinery, it's the algorithm in the computer there that is missing. But it's sort of lonely.

I don't think I can mirror it because I never felt lonely. Yeah, also there is an experience going on. Yeah, sure, you can only mirror what you experienced. Or you will project something. If you are the totality, how can you ever be lonely? Yeah, true. I guess that's one conditioning that I don't have, you know, but most of us certainly do. I get logistic. I'm really grateful for not having lonely. I try to feel it a couple of times. So you're really an axe murderer, are you? No, I'm not. That's one thing, though. I've never had to decide I really kill things. So when people say, oh, it's the left side of me, I'm worried about it, I'm like, I'm never worried about it.

I've killed many mosquitoes in India. Well, I accidentally drowned a lot of insects, and I don't mean to. And then I'm like, oh, God, I wasn't really passionate about them because I really didn't want to kill them, but I just got lazy and they were just half drowned, and my body just kept running. But if you don't take credit for anything, then it doesn't really matter anymore because life through this body expresses us an urge to kill mosquitoes, and through this body, us, no urge to kill mosquitoes, but no doer anywhere. Well, if mice are insects, I'll catch them, put them outside, yeah. Oh, you haven't been in India, must be.

Because that place, oh, boy, no matter how enlightened you are. That big. And if you get like 10,000 of them like totally covered, and you sleep under the net, and they still find a way, and they bite so badly. I do got a wee mosquito rampage in Australia. Some of them get that big, they lift up the net and carry it around. Thank you. Whatever is naturally happening. Thank you.