Sailor Bob - Non duality spiel and discussion

Okay, I'd like to say your names so everybody knows everybody. Shona, Judith. Well it's the same old, same old. I can't teach you anything and I can't tell you anything. Understand that right from the start. And when you realise what we're pointing to, all I can do is point toward and ask you to look to where we're pointing and see if you saw it. When you realise what I'm pointing to, you'll see that nobody can ever teach you anything and nobody can ever tell you anything. And it's not something new, it's not some new cult or newfangled idea. You'll see it's the base of all the ancient traditions.

And you'll see all the crap that's been put on them over the years, they're lost sight of it. The basic essence of them all is obscured. And they've got this, all these conceptual beliefs they've put upon them. Another way of putting it, I'm not talking to any body. I'm not talking to any mind. I'm not talking to that body-mind idea or concept you might have about yourself. I'm talking to that sense of presence, that I am-ness that I am. That sense of presence that expresses through the mind as the thought I am. Just this, nothing else. So you're not going to hear anything new here.

You're going to hear a lot of the reverse. The rubbish that you might have believed will be taken away from it. And the simplicity of plain English with all the Sanskrit words and other crap they put on it to obscure it will be there in its fullness. Hinduism, they call it Advaita. Advaita translated means non-duality. And they try to describe non-duality by saying it's one without a second, not two. They've got this idea, duality and non-duality, but can there be duality without non-duality? And can there be non-duality without duality? So they're just basic concepts we've got. We've put on the way the pure nature or intelligence energy is functioning.

They say it's one without a second. To try to describe it, we're saying it's one without a second, not two. And even the idea of one, if you look at it, it can't be even the one without the concept of the other. So basically, it is no thing. And you'll see that a lot in the scriptures. It's nothing or no thing. When people say nothing, they believe it's empty, a vacuum or a void. But there's a different take on it. You see it as no thing. And when you realise that everything in this manifestation are things, you and I are things that are appearing in this manifestation, the trees, the flowers, the sky, the space are all things.

But when they tell you all those things are evanescent, they are shadow pictures, they'll tell you this, that appear on the screen, on the basic screen that has never been contaminated or never touched or corrupted by anything. Evanescent ripples on the screen that come and go. But the appearance is seen very real, solid and substantial. And that's the wondrous way, and that points to the fact that it is pure intelligence that can pattern, shape and form a human body. An insect, a blade of grass, a tree, a flower. It's not applied as a wondrous intelligence. Not the intellect. We all have different degrees of intellect.

I can't be even smarter than I am ever likely to be with intellect. The intelligence, the pure functioning of this nature, this manifestation, in its wondrous form, in its shapes and forms. And we've taken the idea we can control it or have some say in it. So, they say it's non, it's that pure intelligence energy. And you look at all the other traditions too. In Buddhism, they'll tell you the same thing, but using different terms. They'll say it's non-conceptual, ever fresh, presence awareness. Just this, nothing else. Exactly that, nothing else apart from this. Anyone who is not present right now and aware right now, aware of that presence, without putting in any concepts or ideas or labels you put upon yourself, you'll recognize that you are already that and you've always been that.

But it's lost sight of, it's obscured. In that obscuration, they call it ignorance. You'll see a lot of that in the scriptures. It's ignorance, not dull or shabby. It means we are ignoring our true nature and focusing into these conceptual beliefs we've taken on board and never questioned. And that's what we point toward here and ask it a question and do it for yourself because nobody can ever do it for you. It's your own reality. And if you realize why nobody can ever do it for you, because all these other patterns, alongside you and around you, are that evanescent shadow pictures on the screen. The basic screen in which it all appears on is that stillness, the silence, the emptiness, where they call in Buddhism cognizing emptiness.

Not that we are cognizing the emptiness, but the emptiness is fused with that innate intelligence cognizing, patterning, shaping and forming and everything. So as I say, it's spander or shakti, a vibrating pattern of energy that forms these ripples on the screen and all these ripples are seeming patterns, shapes and forms. So that's all we are, patterns, shapes and forms, vibrating patterns of energy that appear and disappear. And look at that. We're going back to the other. We go into Christianity, they'll show you the same thing using different terms. I'll say it's omnipresence. Omnipotence. Omniscience. Omnipresence means total presence. Not you and me or anything else, but total presence.

Anyone who is not aware of being present right now. Omnipotence. Omnipotence means total power. And you've got these concepts of thought power, mind power, higher power, other power, all sorts of different powers. Omnipotence means total power. There's one power that's functioning, manifesting and shaping and patterning this entire manifestation. You can call it God if you like. Call it whatever you like. But it's the one power and you are that omnipotence. And omniscience means one's intelligence. Not your intellect or my intellect or your power or your intelligence. It's the one. It's always and only and ever been that one. But see what we've done. We've gone to two.

Three and so forth. But can there be two without the one? Can there be anything other without that one? It all begins with that one essence. And you are that. You've always been that and never will be that. That's what we've got to realise. So going back to wherever I was before it, I don't remember because my mind's going. You listen to an old guy here, a 90 years old, he's got, starting to get, what's the name, I can't think of it, Parkinson's, Parkinson's, some other thing else, and have it hit, done and all the rest of it. You don't have to take any notice of him.

But there's still, it's the intelligence energy still functioning through that pattern. Now the pattern's breaking down and it will break down. And it will be absorbed back into the natural intelligence energy which it formed out of it. So the pattern shapes and form the expressions of that appearance and what we've taken to believe is true. And not realising it's only that one essence, it's only that one intelligence energy. And this body, mind, you call you and me, is the instrument to which it's expressing. In its totality out there, what's appearing on the silence and stillness is this manifestation we call the world. And we call it the world, but look at that, what do the ancient scriptures tell us?

That this manifestation is Maya. It's illusion. It's a phenomenal manifestation. Look up your dictionary, look up the word phenomena. And see that the definition of phenomena is that which appears to be. So only, it's appearance. It's only seemingly so. Appearance is seemingly so. It's just like a shadow on the screen. It doesn't last for very long and appears. So this manifestation is Maya. It's what they call Maya. Or illusion. Appearance. And you can recognise that and see it for what it is. It's constantly transient. There's nothing static about it. It's constantly changing, but we don't add that to these patterns we call you and me.

And see this pattern you call you and me, or whatever, is transient also. You haven't got the same body you walked into this room with. It's changing right now. There are cells dying in it, not one or two, but thousands of them being replaced. It's constantly changing like everything else. But it appears to be static. But have a look at it. Have you got the same body you had 20 years ago? You haven't. Have you got the same thoughts and feelings and concepts about yourself you had last week or yesterday? You haven't. Even the thoughts you had yesterday, where are they today? You can recall them and log into them again and take them to be real again, but realise they're constantly transient like everything else and constantly changing.

And when you realise that they're coming and going, are you going to continue to fixate on them and take them as being real? Or are you going to let them change and be that essence in which they're appearing on and changing on that's never been contained? That's where the peace is. That's where the natural realisation and recognition is. Not in some concept or a thought, where they tell you it's non-conceptual, but in some awareness. Awareness without any concepts. So we say right from the start that you are that. And there is only that. And that's what they tell us in the scriptures also. They call it sat-shet-ananda in Hinduism.

Sat is existence, shet is consciousness, ananda is bliss or happiness to be. We get that concept or idea of bliss as some static or mystical great experience we're going to relate to and be in and it's never going to change. But another way of putting it is just the love of being. Being and anyone who's not being. Knowing anyone who's not knowing. Loving to be is anyone who doesn't want to be right now. So you are that. Sat-shet-ananda right now. Put it in its simplicity. Get into the Sanskrit words, you might think it's something you've got to require or attain and set out on a path which is admirable or allusion to.

What path is there if there's no duration? Look into this and see that duration time is a mental concept also and there's only this immediacy. Well what path is there without duration? And you say I'm on the path. And if it's all taking place in space and space you can't find a centre to or any circumference to it, what destination can there be? You don't have to be a Rhodes scholar to work these things out. And you mightn't see. You might be so locked into this conceptual energy, conceptual path, you won't see what I'm pointing to. And you mightn't see until you look for some years and you mightn't bother with it and say it's full of crap.

Well do that. Walk away. And never look at it. And as people come here 20 years ago and come back 20 years later, didn't see what I was saying then and been working on them and come back and recognise later. After they've done their 20 years of following some fictitious, following some fictitional path, trying to get somewhere like I did myself. And never until I recognised somebody who was pointing to this way and he pointed out that I wasn't this body, I wasn't this mind, I was that pure awareness. It's not contaminated or corrupted by any of the concepts I'm likely to put on it.

It was there in its natural state. And after that time I recognised it. And realised that, recognising that it's not just a thing. Because you've already cognised it. Everyone has had tastes of this along the way and realised that there's more to it than what it used to be. Especially those here today. There's thousands of people who won't come to a thing like this. Because what their parents, schools and society had told them, they're stuck into it, like I was. But some of us start to recognise and realise there's more to it. And they'll look into different things. And if they look into these different things and follow them and can't get any further, something will come up and move them to look further on.

And if this is not good enough, something will take you on further, if there is anything further to go. But I can't find anything further than this. This is the end of the track. And even though this body's breaking down, there's always that sense of being that's ever present and ever fresh. And the concepts and ideas, the patterns, shapes and forms, the pain, the fear and the things that appear on it, are not taken to be real. And they're seen for what they are and they disappear. And there's a natural sense of well-being here. Being well, even though the body-mind will tell me otherwise. It can't be believed in.

The recognised, uncontaminated, ever fresh presence awareness that you are is always there. But as I say, nobody can do it for you. You've got to look on after it and see it for yourself. The scripture that I refer to now, it's an ancient text, a couple of thousand years old or more, points to it directly, in all its freshness. But it's misconstrued by many or put aside by many because they see the simplicity of it and want to look into something more complicated. Especially the ideas we get about it today. We get thought, power and mind, thought power and mind power, and different sorts, neuro this and neuro that, neo-advaita and all the rest of it, and there's different scriptures looking for it.

How many advaitas are there if there's neo-advaita and advaita? How many dualities are there if it's non-dual? See the tracks we're going down. We've got a mind that's very useful and it does function and create, and we'll see many great new things, but it comes back to the basic relative of it. What thought or effort is there? What power is there? How many thoughts can a corpse have? How many feelings and what can a corpse say and what can it think and what can it do? You realise it can't do any of those things. So you realise it's the life essence that's animating and it's breathing and it's beating its heart and expressing so and so's doing and everything.

So what must you be? You must be the corpse and what's coming in it, it must be the life essence that's functioning it. And you can relate it to a computer just like a computer. That corpse without that life essence is not a bit of good. That computer without the power turned on, you can punch those keys and move that mouse around as much as you like. What information are you going to get out of it? None whatsoever, though it can perform amazing things if the power's turned on. If that life essence is not functioning through this body, there's amazing things that can happen and express through it.

If it's not turned on, you're a corpse which the innate intelligence energy is going to break down by forming bacteria or enzymes that will eat it and devour it and rot it and it'll be absorbed back into the essence of which it came from. I'll read a bit of this text again where it points it all out in a different way. It's not the start. Satchitananda, see the self. And his worship. See the, another verse of see the, is that Satchitananda. See the Brahman or stillness or emptiness are all different labels they're putting on the one thing. They put different labels, different names and forms.

But the names and forms have all been acquired. Have a look at that and realise every word you've learnt, you were not born with any words. You didn't have any words until you came into existence about two, two and a half in the capacity of reasoning started to develop. What were you doing for the first two years apart from that? You were functioning naturally, spontaneously without the worm. The nine months which you were in the womb, what were you doing about that? You didn't have any idea about it. The innate intelligence energy, the life essence that formed you knew what was necessary to form this human patty, pattern and it's that life essence that's living you and expressing you ever since before that form came into existence.

Now how many words could accomplish a human corpse if it can't be any? Now realise that every word you've ever spoken or ever likely to speak has been picked up along the way. You weren't born with any words. And the point is that you were probably learning new words to this day. So they weren't all down-standing at the one time. So it's not something that immediately came into functioning and all those words were there. They've had to be acquired or learnt. Your parents taught you words in the first place and they've all been lied. But realise that the word is not the thing. We've got all these words we've learnt but the word's not the thing.

Take the word water. See if you can drink the word water. See if you can wash in it. See if you can drink it and do your word with it. The word's not the thing. You can't wash yourself in it. You can't drown in it. You can't swim in it. Does the word fire burn your mouth if you speak it? You can't heat yourself with it. You can't cook with it. You can't warm yourself with it. What's this word I or me? You've got a concept. It's this me, this separate entity, this individual, this person. But have a look. Are you that? And you'll realise any word is not what it appears to be.

Like the map is never the territory. The other thing, the description, is never the described. Look at these things and see. And you've learnt all these words can be very useful but they're not the actuality. So you've got these words and beliefs, they're sort of me, see that these words have been learnt and picked up, you weren't born with them and they've taken the word to be real. I am Bob. The Australian, the good fellow who are not so good. I'm not happy or I'm unhappy. I'm fearful, I'm anxious, I'm depressed. All these concepts or words I put upon myself. I'm the wordless presence awareness.

The wordless cognising emptiness. That's another word the Buddha told you. It's a cognising emptiness. I'm not negating any of these other real things. I'm not negating any of these other religions or traditions. They're all pointing to it in one but they all get confused with it the same way we do because I put concepts and ideas on it and somebody gets the idea that I know better than you and I'll tell you more about it. And these people have been set up as saints, sages, saviours and seers down through the ages and people have worshipped the messenger and have lost sight of the message. The messenger is a shadow, an imprint on the screen of awareness just like everything else is.

It comes and it goes. But the message, the reality, the truth cannot be the change. And that's the backer of the world. Know the truth and the truth will set you free. You want to be free, just see the truth and never mind the messenger. Can't point to anything or tell you anything. It is like a signpost but it's no good at all. But the message that they carried around is one and the same. You'll see it in all the scriptures. There's one essence appearing, patterning and expressing as everything. One truth, one reality. Only the one. And in the recognition that I am that, I told you the Buddha called it a cognising emptiness and he made the statement, not talking about cognising, not what we are cognising in the emptiness.

There is nothing cognising in the emptiness but the emptiness itself is cognising. It has that pure intelligence which is cognising, patterning, shaping and forming and everything. And he made the statement then that emptiness is form. Pointing out on that basic screen of emptiness as I pointed out before or stillness, all these patterns, shapes and forms appear. So emptiness is form. And he turned it around the other way and looked at it closely and said the form can be nothing other than emptiness. You think yourself to be this pattern, shape and form, this person, but the pattern, shape and form is nothing but the emptiness. That's what you are, emptiness.

And look at this idea or concept you've got about yourself, a person. Where did that word come from? Doesn't it come from persona? An ancient language described this person, it meant a mask. Persona, a mask. Means you've got this conceptual image, this mask of entity you've absorbed, and taken yourself to be real in. A mask, based on past events and experiences, a dead image. We're constantly relating to this dead image. No wonder you can't keep up with life. Because life is ever fresh and free. It's constantly transient, it's constantly changing. And we're left behind because we're relating to a dead image. Where was I? I was lost.

Where I was going and where I was saying I was going to read this was wasn't I? We'll have another go and see what we say about it. You've got to laugh, it's funny because the mind is changing constantly. It's not the same as it was. I tell you, on the eternal and infinite screen, sat-shet-ananda, siva, or awareness, stillness, silence. That's the screen. By his own power, by the sakti, by his own power, the sakti that's appearing in that sat-shet-ananda. In that screen of self, being aware of the self, the sakti, the ripple, or the intelligence that's in it, by its own power, sakti is projected as the moving shadow pictures.

It's the vibrating intelligence that's moving shadow pictures of the universe in manifestation into that again. It is absorbed in dissolution. Pointing out that it comes, plays around and disappears. Just like you and I are going to be absorbed back into it. We think we're going to hell or to heaven and we're frightened of that. But where did you come from? You can't remember your birth. You can't remember that sperm and ovum coming together in your father and your mother. Where that cell, the night intelligence doubled that cell and redoubled it and formed the little embryo, the little fetus. And you don't remember your birth. But you don't remember until you're born, until you're reasoning about two, two and a half years later.

And then you're taking on that belief and the fear of death comes about but it's going to be absorbed back into that little screen again. So recognise that and know that for certain. But the essence itself that you are has never been changed. It hasn't been hurt like it tells you in the Gita. The sword can't cut it. The fire can't burn it. The wind can't dry it. The water can't drown it. Why? Why can't anything see? Because it contains all of those things. It contains the wind, the water, the earth, the fire. It contains you and me. Nothing can touch it because it contains all of those things.

They're the content of it. And so the content cannot touch the container. And you are the container of it all. Where was I up to? Nobody can tell me because you don't remember. Pointless reading it. All luminaries like the sun, moon, fire, stars, lightning derive their luminosity as a gracious gift from that Shakti or that movement of intelligence inherent in the screen of see the self. That stillness self only. So the sun, the moon, there's no light in the sun, the moon or the stars. If it wasn't for that same Shakti that's given you the light of life that's diffusing that pattern you call you, they're much brighter than what you and I are alive in.

Though bright in themselves, they can only obscure and cannot reveal the see the screen which they cover up. So it is those lights of sun, moon and the thing, and the seeming pattern of the universe that's obscuring it. Content is seemingly askew as the real when we believe in it. Go back and recognise, well not a matter of going back, but go with the reality that you are right now and recognise if there wasn't a thought going on, if there wasn't a feeling or an emotion going on, can you negate your beingness? Can you say under any circumstances, I am not? You can only say when you don't even have to say it because you can't negate it, I am.

But the I am is not your reality, though we take it to be the reality. I am is the conceptual label we put upon ourselves in the first place. I, the figure one, I, as soon as there's one there's got to be two, or appears to be two, but there never was. That I am-ness, the sense of presence you can't negate. That presence awareness, stay and try and negate it, so it's not. You can't say I am not. Out of fear, and it is out of fear, we fear when we take on this belief we are this entity, we think we've got to do something, we're far further, which was a screen, appearance on the screen, their creator, the Shakti, or the intelligent, creates the gods and demons and everything else that appears on it, or ever already engaged in their ordained duties.

That's what I say. The earth moving around the sun, the seasons coming again, the sun going towards us, is what is happening in that intelligence. The body shapes and forms and everything appearing, are the pattern shapes and forms that are taking place. But the concept that we are separate entities and got some power and independent nature ourselves is what's obscuring it from us. Taking ourselves to be something other than what is reality. So out of fear of losing that idea we are the separate entity, we get bound into these things, and we're satisfied outside of our true nature. That see for yourself must be meditated upon to realize and realize to be the self by making the restless mind stay still and alert after it has been adequately restrained.

It's only thought that makes it the problem. As Shakespeare told you a couple hundred years ago, there's nothing either good or bad but thinking makes it so. As I could have told you, there's nothing can trouble you except in your own imagination. And look at that word imagination and break it down to image in. Imagine. Imagine broken down to image in. And isn't that all that we're doing? Is making mental images. You've got a mental image about this, that and everything else. Taking the image to be real and not seeing for what it is, just a conceptual image. And the image is based on past events, experiences and conditioning, or however you, how would you ever be able to label it if it's fresh in you.

The labels we put on it are based on past events. Where would you get the label from? When they tell you in the Bible in the beginning was the Word. And realize that. You didn't begin until the Word came about it. The Word was with God and the Word was God. All God is is a Word. A label. But if we put all those concepts and ideas on it and it didn't begin, all things were made by Him, by the Word. And have a look at that. All this manifestation, you've got words for it, concepts, ideas. There was nothing made that was made without the Word.

And the Word was made flesh and dwelt among us. The Word became seemingly real and jubilant. Now realize that every word you have ever spoken and ever liked to speak has been learned. And the Word is not real, which I pointed out before you. And you didn't begin, you were functioning two years before you ever learned any words. Nine months in the womb before that and you didn't have any words. So you can't tell me anything about that. Because you didn't have any words. What can you tell me about right now? You ask yourself what's wrong with right now if I don't think about it.

And pause a moment and ask yourself that question. Can you say it's good without the Word? Can you say it's bad without the Word? Can you say it's present, past or future? Can you say it's present, past or future without the Word? You can't say anything about it, but you can't negate the beingness of it. What it is without putting a word or label on it. There's just a presence awareness there. I'm putting words on it to translate it and describe it. And that's all you can do. To say that I am is a word you put on it. But without the words, realize what's functioning in that body without the Word.

You're still breathing. Your heart's still beating. Your hearing and fingernails are growing. Your food's being digested. Everything is happening in that body without the Word. So when you pause a thought and ask yourself what's wrong with right now, you've got to pause a thought for a moment when you can't do it. But in the looking, trying to look beyond the mind without the mind, you'll see there is a pause. When you realize thoughts not the... Because what I'm talking about is the me. You can't say that thought's not the be all and end all. When you go to sleep at night, you forget about thought.

If you were the thought, you wouldn't lose sight of it. But every night you go to sleep, you give up the thought. Is it the end of you without the thought? It's not. When you wake up in the morning, the thought starts again. And we carry on from where we left off. And when you realize the thought is not the actual, it's not the real, then you don't do it. And you don't do the word. So I've forgotten where I was again. Anyway, so that's what I point to. So try and remember, well, you don't have to try and remember. Ask yourself, come back to this present.

What's there without a thought? It's no use trying. But your innate intelligence will tell you. If I see that there's no thought there in a moment, you're coming back, asking yourself, what is wrong with right now if I don't think about it? And when you recognize and realize, you can't say it's good, you can't say it's bad, you can't say it's pleasurable, painful, without thinking about it. And I got all the pains in the world here now, with the hip removed and the tooth taken out, crossing my legs with the cattle beating me up for it, remember? And out the words. But if I don't think about them, they're not a problem.

When I think about it, I can cause all sorts of things. And that's gone on all my life. The last 30 or 40 years when I've recognized that the words are not the real, there's been no input taken into them. The energy of belief has not reinforced them. They come and they go. And the transience of life is seen. And that spontaneous, wondrous effort of being in this natural state, a sense of presence awareness, which is uncontaminated or un-corrupted about any of the things that take place upon it, is ever fresh and ever new upon it. And it's not just here that it's seen. People that come into this room, there's people in this room now, will tell you about it.

They're in various states and some have just started looking at it. Some have looked at it for a while. Some have recognized it for a while and it's grown and grown and lived in them more and more in the very effort of living in there. So it's all there. So I'm going to shut up. I'm going to shut up. And leave it go for you. Tell them about it. If you've had the experience of expression, tell us how it's working in your life. If you haven't had it, you've got questions and doubts about it, you're new and fresh, you question and doubt. If you've looked at other things and haven't found the answer, might it just dawn on you?

There might be some things you've looked at for 10, 20, 30 years, meditated and thought about it and moved on to next things and you haven't found the answer there. Might it just dawn on you? I've looked all this time and I'm an intelligent person, why haven't I found the answer? Might it just dawn on you, well maybe I've been looking in the wrong direction. I've looked all these years and never questioned this one, this guru, this meditation and this concept and that, and never found the answer. You're not an ignorant person. You are the same intelligence as everybody else. You haven't found the answer.

Maybe it might dawn on you, maybe I've been looking in the wrong direction. And when you ask yourself what direction you've been looking, you'll realise, I've always been looking in the mind for the answer. And if I ask myself what way is there outside of the mind, and you'll realise there's no way out of the mind. Every direction you look at will always be in the mind. But the only way out of the mind is full stop. Just don't go there. Just pause the thought. Don't go there. Just look at the world. Just look at the world. Just look at the world. Just look at the world.

Just go with that thought. Don't carry on with it. If it's going to tell you this, the story's going to start. And that's what happens here. People hear what I'm saying. There's no me or I am, but as soon as a but comes in, another story is going to start. There's got to add other concepts to that but, or what if, or why, or when. Drop the what ifs, why, buts and whens. Stay in the pause and see what reveals itself and that cognising emptiness and that presence awareness. It might be something, as you might realise, shit, I never understood or saw what the magnificence was of this cognising emptiness.

That's why I ask other ears to express it and explain it to you if they can. Where is that essence they're coming from? To point out it's not just something to the few. It's not just something's been recognised down to... It's open to everybody and everybody for a little bit of investigation, a little bit of self-questioning, a little bit of recognising that you are that pure intelligence. So away you go. The thinking is what we believe the mind. The mind is not that intelligence, but you take the mind to be something real. Everything in your mind is some conceptual image you've got about it, or the word, the conceptual label you take to be real.

When you realise that the mind, so-called mind, is no thing, it's not a real thing also. It's just a vibrating pattern of energy that appears on the screen like everything else. And when you look at the word and see the word's not the real, you understand that there is no such thing as mind apart from thought. And when you look at thought, you'll see thought is just a vibration, a ripple on that screen, a vibrational pattern of energy. That's all thought is. And thought or concepts is what we take to be real, thoughts and words. When you read the word, the word is not the real, what can you relate it to?

When you look at it, it can all be broken down into that intelligence energy. That's what I say, it needs to be looked at and seen. Are you the mind? Well, if you think you are the mind, show me this thing that you call the mind. If you believe I am this mind, what do you call mind? Nobody stood up and said, I'll give you a concept of what the mind is or what the mind is. You can give me plenty of concepts, yeah. And you'll realise there's no such thing as mind apart from thought. Again, you can say he's talking bullshit around, you can go out and answer what the mind is there, but nobody jumps up and tells me what the mind is right here when you've seen it.

Where did you hear about it? I came once before. Did you? Before the operation. Oh, that's why I can't remember. How did you go to the operation? Well, I'm still here, I don't know what I've got. That's good. Good to see you. The problem was not to have any questions? No. No problem. No, if you can see, absolutely see for certain that there were no questions. Questions demand an answer. And who is the questioner that needs an answer? But I mean to say, very well to say there's no questions while you're here, but you say, when I left here, the mind or me came back.

If you saw there was no such thing as mind, who or what or how or why or when could it come back? That means it wasn't actually recognised in its true nature. See that often, oh, the mind went away, there was no mind, yet the mind came back. Yeah. Good. Nothing comes to mind. But when it, you lost it back then, has that developed in you? There's more and more being with that than what there is in the thinking? You don't have to remember it's something else. It's just a thought. It's a thought. It's a thought. It's a thought. It's a thought. It's a thought.

It's a thought. You don't have to remember it's something specific happened, but how is your thinking and all the rest? You're still getting locked into the thoughts, concepts, ideas as much? Yeah, I'm... Well, don't relate it to me. It's happening. But don't relate it to that belief in me that's having it. And see, it's coming up of its own self. And the old habit pattern is to relate it to me. You come back and get another reminder and you're going to relate it to me next time. That's what I find when you said something in your spirit. The rest of the Sunday, I'm just going to...

Yeah. ...go through my mind or it's doing what it's doing and it seems to... I don't know, wow. I've never really... Wouldn't say I wouldn't have thought of it like that before, but it's certainly... there's something happening. Good. The resonation is an activity. That's why I call it intelligence energy. The activity of knowing, not your intellect or something, but your natural intelligence. When I'm talking about intelligence, I'm not talking about your intelligence. I'm talking about the same intelligence that's functioning... universe. Look out there in nature and see for yourself. It's intelligence that's calling this earth to rotate, it's calling the earth to orbit around the sun, the seasons to come and go, the tides to come in and out.

All the things that are happening and the expression of that innate intelligence. Come back and hear you are no different from nature. You're no different from nature at all. You're taking place in nature and realize it's that same intelligence that's breathing you, that's beating your heart, that's growing your hair and your fingernails, that's digesting your food. When I'm talking about intelligence, that's the intelligence I'm talking about. When you resonate with that, that means it's heard something that it relates to, it resonates with. The vibration of a recognition, a recognition. We talk of the cognizing the emptiness, it needs to be recognized again and again. So in the hearing it and resonating with it, recognising it, that means what's there is recognising it and it'll grow in that recognition.

Because it's habits that's of a skill that's been reinforced day in and day out for 10, 20, 30 years and seemingly solid and substantial. To break the habit, you need to be reminded and recognised until the habit gets broken. You see it completely and it might arise but it's got no longer any fire in it or any belief in it and it can't do any harm. That reminds me of that expression, the gateless gate. Yeah. And if you sort of feel there's some sort of problem and it's not real, it's an imaginary sort of barrier or a plan or whatever. When you don't fixate on it, you let it go.

Well that's what they call it, the Buddha called it in one sentence. Yeah. The great perfection. Now the great perfection is that which can't be contaminated or corrupted by anything at all, just like the absolute. What can you add to the absolute? Not one thing. If you'd add the least thing to an absolute, it wouldn't be absolute. What can you take away from it? Take the least thing away, it wouldn't be the absolute. The same with the great perfection. You can't add anything to it or can't take anything away from it. It is the totality. And they tell you in one sentence, The great perfection is non-conceptual awareness.

Now anybody in this room who is unaware right now, you'll realise, I'm not unaware. You recognise this so you must be aware. But what concepts you've got going on are hiding it. What thoughts, ideas, or images are you putting on that? Bring it back to the non-conceptual, the pure, ever fresh person's awareness. That's the great perfection. That's as far as you'll ever go. That's all you ever know. That's you ever need to go because that is what the life essence in you is that's what's living you breathing and beating hard get in touch with it recognize there's no way to get in touch with it but I recognize it or be with it and see the great perfection take place in your life see the difference it brings about but you can stay bound and contaminated and live a miserable existence where the fears and unhappiness and depression will take place in you know that's all the pointing is pointing you to your natural state that which you've always and ever been and intelligence energy doesn't give a shit whether you recognize the weather it doesn't its production is very prolific and keeps producing and reproducing pattern shapes and forms but it's never moved away from its natural intelligence energy and start from the fact whether you see it or not that you are that that's a basic call I am that that is what I am that is what I've always and ever been and you know that in your language you say that is a chair that is a carpet before you label it a chair carpet you say it's that that is me that is you realize that everything is that start from that fact that I am that whether you know it or not you realize just start to look and see what this that is and you realize that is which not negatable it is not negatable relax and be there and that's what you can do is relax into it try and get it you can't get away from it you could ignore it lose sight of it contaminated and corrupted see what takes place in which is always taken by relax into it and see it's doing this job naturally perfectly ever fresh and ever new Julia had a question when you do the full stop she always succeeded with the full stop but the mind comes back so where does she go from there and she's asking if when you're talking about breaking habit is it the habit of thinking to be broken well that's what pointed out to Julia many times what's wrong with right now if you don't think about it pause the thought and ask yourself the question what can I say without a thought well you can't say it's good you can't say it's bad pleasant painful can't say anything at all without a thought and what is thought a thought something's been acquired or picked up along the way and when she says well the mind comes back and just pointing out what is mind show is there a thing such a mind without those minds without a thought what is mind if you pause the thought show me your mind there is no such thing all the mind is thought and all the thought is is a mental concepts and all the mental concept is a dead image because it's based on past events experiences and conditioning what can you say and Bob I'm an Australian good fellow isn't that based on dead images what can I say about this presence awareness that's fresh and new and spontaneous so I haven't got something to put any credence or any thought or any belief on it whatsoever it's transient it's changing but I relate it to the dead image me and get caught up and see that that image is a fiction when you dream when you dream you create a world just the same as this world is a living dream we don't recognize you can dream at night you can be in all sorts of places in that dream you can be in the forest in the city in a car anywhere at all everything takes place in that dream yet the dream character that having have that the dreams has never moved off the bed never taken place in any of these situations whatsoever as fashion shaped informed of mentally in the name but nothing has ever happened in that dream character when you wake up what happened to the dream that disappears now can you tell the difference between the dream and this waking state if this was never happening at night it is not.

there's nothing like that in the world ever to be Valery if you're off all the time just as if you're doing something in the world and this waking state if this wake state is ever going to go away or not ever go away the first thing to know when you wake up is that you're awake but you're not being able to realize that you've been awake all this life and you're not being able to finish your life This waking state, if the dream continued every night from where it left off like the waking state does, could you tell the difference between the dream and the waking state?

You couldn't. You realize that this waking state is also a waking dream. And you're bound in this because the dream is nothing at all, it only appears to be, when you look into this and recognize that your conceptual images are nothing but like the dream characters of no substance or any part, you're free of the dream. You're free of the waking dream also. And see everything as it is. I know I'd like to be able to pause. Yeah. You don't have to. When you wake up, see the dream. And then, you know, as it tells you, when in the Hinsing Ming, when all discriminating thoughts are in the mind, you're free.

When the thoughts cease to arise, the dream character ceases to exist, something like that. It says mind, but that's the same. Yeah. Something. What is it? It says mind, as we know it ceases to exist. Ceases to exist, yeah. These are pointed out in all the ancient texts if you look into them and read them properly. Instead of reading with the conceptual image, oh, this was a thousand years ago, what would this chap know, or what would that one? And all these people, they put different concepts. And say, read this book, or go to the next. Putting different concepts on it. And keeping alive the dead image.

We can't cancel it out until you see the truth of it here. You can be free of it immediately. Right here, right now. You might say it's too hard, or it's too much, and I can't see that, and that's a lot of crap. Well, recognize that's more concepts. More concepts. What is it if you're not putting a concept on it? Anyone who exists, you're not putting a concept on it. You're not putting a concept on it. Anyone who is not existing right now in this present moment, can you say you are not existing, not being? Anyone who is not conscious right now, or unaware, can you say, I am unaware?

No, you recognize I'm not unaware, I must be aware. You can't say what awareness is, or what existence is. Anyone who is not loving to be right now, would you like to be dead right now? I'd sort of be happy to be or not to be. Yeah. Well, all right. Yeah. To be or not to be will be that. So you're not taking any conceptual stance, are you? No. Well, good. Be that. And you're not resisting your being either. You don't have preference not to be. Because that's a bit of a problem with me. Well, don't let it be your problem. Be. If you're happy to be or not be, be as you are.

But I've tested it out on some friends who have miserable lives and a total ace in it. I've said yes and cynical, you know, the awareness, yes. When I've said happy to be, two of them have just popped out yes. Good. OK. What? What's wrong with me? Test it out on yourself. Let others test it out for themselves. I can't, as I say, I can't tell anybody. I can't tell anybody anything because you are just evanescent shadows on the screen of that pure intelligence energy. That's the way you are. Yeah. You don't know... Yeah, let's just say I'm in the proprietary end of the world right now.

But somehow I know... How do I define the word? Uh-oh. Tell me the damn thing? Tell me how about this? It's like a Noxious density net, you know, the mass gas being left in the leaders of the universe. It's trying to be the daylight story. It makes me so scared right now. It makes me super pale. It's so blinding from the outside in. It drives you crazy. It drives you bonkers. That non-conceptual, ever-present presence awareness which they point to. The omnipresence, omnipotence, omniscience, one without a second. Yes, it's not the thought that's doing it. The thought appears on the screen, it's the intelligence that's appearing too, that's forming the pattern shape and forming the life essence.

How many thoughts can a corpse have? If you think a thought's going. If that life essence wasn't there, you couldn't have a single thought, feeling or emotion. So just take it one back step further, it's the life essences doing it. You can't say what that life essence is, but you can't negate it either. Every thought, every feeling, every emotion you had, you couldn't have had if that life essence wasn't there. So you are that. He was asking why is that omniscience, omnipresence manifesting all the forms? Why not just stay with the emptiness? Empty. Empty. Yeah. You can stay with the emptiness if you like, but the emptiness is going to express this pattern shape and form, isn't it?

Fun? It can be. If it's there without shape, what is it? What are you going to be without a pattern shape or form? You're going to be that emptiness. Is that much fun? Being in the stillness, the silence, and the emptiness? Well, that's all. It actually is emptiness. It is only appearance, it is only maya. So it never really left its natural state of the emptiness. As Buddha told you, emptiness is form. It's that cognizing emptiness. It's called the cognizing emptiness. It has a capacity of cognizing or knowing. It vibrates and emptiness is form. But he also tells you the form, though it's appearing solid and substantial, can be nothing other than the emptiness.

It only ever was the emptiness. It's not the emptiness. It's the form. It's the emptiness. Only it never was that stillness, that silence, in which patterns, shapes, and forms appear. And the patterns, shapes, and forms are evanescent ripples on the screen of stillness. Evanescent. I know Buddha said that emptiness is question that. Well, question it. That's good. Question everything. Is there emptiness without, regardless of what Buddha said? Pardon? Well, if form be anything other than the emptiness. Have a look at that. Well, if there was no vibration on that form, on that stillness, in this manifestation, how many forms can there be? If there wasn't a vibration, a ripple going through the ocean, how many ripples would there appear or waves would there appear on the ocean?

What's thought? When you look at thought and see that thought is vibration, what's a vibration? It's a subtle movement of energy. Everything is that vibrating pattern of energy. Can you postulate a thinking anything without energy? Well, have a look and see. Go into what you saw. I would say everything, absolutely everything that is unthinkable is possible. Because this is the intelligence. It's infinite, unlimited. So if there is a thinkable possibility of the ocean without the wave or ripple, sure. Right now in my head, I'm visualizing it. There is no ocean in this room. So it is already actualized by my thought. The question was answered by Aurobindo in The Life Divine.

He postulated that perfect energy intelligence sometimes withdraws into itself and sits there for uncountable eons, but gets bored and decides to manifest the form again. That's more or less what he said if I understood it, but I couldn't understand the answer in detail. Because there is time in it and time is mind. Yeah. So it's a paradox. These things cannot be explained in a logical way because... Yeah. Didn't I point out the same thing in it? The sweet attempts though, because those attempts are pointing, the fingers pointing at the moon. They're not the finger and they're not the moon. So it's a technique. Yeah, it's basically when they try to introduce time, that eons for the emptiness to be emptiness and eons to be form.

It's already lost. Yeah, it's already lost the timelessness of it because it is only right now. But it is as close as we can get with the mind to pointing to the nature of the unthinkable infinite vastness of it. So I can see where he was trying to point, but of course it can't be successful if you use time, speaking about timelessness, eternity. And that's why I think I don't... I'm not sure I didn't understand the full explanation. And that's good. It was not as simple as emptying a saty for a time and then just got bored and decided to do something. I'm sure it wasn't that simple.

But yeah, thank you. Well, it can't know it's in the non-dual state. You can't know itself. Experience itself. To experience itself. So it doesn't exist when it's in the non-dual state. It is. But it's got its qualities. Yeah, it is and it isn't. Because to actually experience itself, it has to vacate itself. It is everything and nothing. It's not there. Yes. As I read out earlier in this, on the eternal and infinite screen of Sat-Chit-Ananda, its existence, consciousness, or bliss, Siva, or stillness is the screen, by its own power, Shakti, Shakti is energy, is projected as the movement of the mind, is projected as the moving shadow picture of the universe in manifestation.

And into that again, it is observed in dissolution. Absorbed in dissolution. That's how it comes and goes in that vibrating pattern. Without that subtle vibration or movement of intelligence, nothing at all could happen. So it appears and disappears. And then this manifestation is seen. It's transient. It's constantly changing. It's going on right now in this room with each and every one of you. You're seeing this in this moment. Isn't it transient? Isn't the body changing? Isn't everything else transient? So to see it must be a fresh and new thought or feeling, I mean. You couldn't get much closer to nothingness than that. Yet the child is still alive.

There's still a presence there. The imagination of that state of being is thought itself. Yes. Totally. Totally. You can only try and ensure it would. Of course. That. I can see what you're saying. I can see what you're saying. I can see what you're saying. I can see what you're saying. Yeah. I can see what you're saying. I can see what you're saying. I can see what you're saying. I can see what you're saying. Yeah. I can see what you're saying. I can see what you're saying. Yeah. So it's pre-sense. Yeah. Pre-the senses. I get it. Yeah. Yeah. No senses. No senses are input. Pre-imagination.

And it doesn't take anything on until it's managed words. It'll be two, two and a half and it starts to read. So that sounds a bit like deep, tremendous sleep. Mm-hmm. Yeah. I can grasp that because I do it every day. Yeah. And the awareness of being in when the senses are not obstructing it or particularly thoughts is very prominent. And you know that from your own experience? Yes. That the awareness of being is absent in deep sleep? Yes. Yeah. I mean, the awareness of being may be there, but the memory of it is not. When I wake up, I don't remember the eight hours I slept.

That's your direct experience. Mm-hmm. That's the direct experience. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That's the direct experience. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I get the distinction. Yeah. Yeah. You never say I am not. Even the saying, you've got to recognise I am the saying it. Say that again, Bob? Pardon? What did you say there? I say, you can never really say, I am not. Mm-hmm. You can say it a million times, but you mustn't recognise in the very saying of it. There's something there that will enable you to say it. Mm-hmm. You can't negate your beingness. lately I've been aware of when the me arises and it's interesting because when I'm here there's a deep silence and still point I've been explaining that to you the sense of being held in a still point and you said that's the screen and then when I leave this place and I go back into identity of motherhood of twin boys it's really interesting because I'm becoming aware of the biological response which isn't me but then there's an identification that that is me but then there's an awareness that that's just vibrating through me does that make sense?

so it's really interesting how actually we might think the me is there but if I stop and I really inquire it's just a biological response is that like an instinct? it's like the vibration is coming through me and saying no don't hit your brother for an example but it's actually if I really inquire my mind will think that that's me saying that but actually it's not me saying that what's going on is it's actually a response is arising and that's becoming more and more apparent and it's just a thing that gives a lot of freedom because then I realize there's no me's out there you don't have to do it but also in my mind my habitual mind is there's no me and then there's me there's no me and then there's me but that's even stopping that's even dissolving in some way and the more it's cognized the more it's re-cognized the more it's recognized then the cognizing the more that's hold it has on you yes but it's really...

it's great to see a lot of because when you're here you're feeling it you're in the peace you're in the stillness and then you go into life and that's you know and it's still there too it's just responses happen and you don't take credit for them anymore and you don't take credit or you don't devalue it yes and you might realize what don't beat yourself up anymore exactly you might realize what the Christ was pointing to when he said I am the truth I am the way I am the truth I am the life right you're talking about that sense of presence that I am-ness was the life that's the way that is the truth follow that sense of presence and Saga had himself to say stay with the I am-ness people think he's saying stay with the thought I am but he's not that I am-ness is a sense of presence that translates through the mind as the thought I am stay with that sense of presence that you are right now you can't negate that sense of presence you can't negate the thought I am you can't negate that sense of presence stay with that sense of presence that is the way that is the truth that is the life be with it recognize it and stay with it and see where it takes you Bob the ladies question makes me think this week in Melbourne thousands of people are going to fly in for a five day international conference on childhood trauma Jeff shared so make sure you do that so it makes me think of thousands of psychologists and therapists are going to be sitting and thinking about how do we work with people who have kind of experienced all sorts of abuse and neglect and then become adults and many of them will be very dissociated in their minds and their bodies will be expressing all sorts of symptoms and conditions and there will be a certain concentration of power almost within the system as it tries to wrestle and then we call this thing trauma and people embark on you know two, four, five, ten, fifteen years of therapy or treatment or not and this is all happening and there is not necessarily an eye to which it is happening to but it is all happening I can see that but I wondered if you could just offer some thoughts around around that whole process of you know how do you go from a child that you think is going through trauma to a child that is going through trauma and you know I think this is a kind of a project of you know I have been traumatized as a child and the story unfolds and the symptoms are there and perhaps for many of them it's not necessarily conscious thoughts in fact they may be very dissociated from conscious thoughts so I can understand I see where we're coming from there is no eye to which this is happening to and for a lot of these people it seems that a lot of the thinking is not even in their consciousness so in their consciousness, but yet that something is happening deeper in the body and in the system.

Yeah, well, as I say, it's been going on through the years, different things, mind power, thought power, and they're not along all these tracks. And they help, they certainly help. The so-called being can be less involved in them. There's only one way out, when the thought has seen through it and the me has seen through it. Me is the cause of all my problems. When that apparent me came about, the belief in entity, the self-centre, or what I call the self-centre, the reference point, or the ego, everything becomes relative to that ego. Related to this, some past trauma, some past event, some past experience. And relationship or relativity is duality.

There is absolutely no duality in non-duality. You recognise that the me or the ego is a total fiction. It has no substance or any independent nature. It's only a conditioned response of an energy of belief. What am I going to relate to? Going to read? Now, I had all these problems. I told Madison probably some deep down could still be there, come up and show their heads now and again. But most of them dropped away. I can't even remember or relate to, and I'm not carrying them around all the time, reinforcing them, bringing them up and reinforcing it again and again and again, like I was doing years ago.

There's no relationship. It's a reflection to the me because the scenes are me. It's fiction. It's a waste of time me trying to relate to that me. So whatever is there and seemingly innately there, it might raise its ugly head here and there. But it can't be believed in again. If there's another one that comes to light, it's seen through and let go. It comes back to the natural response of being here, right here and right now. And whatever thoughts, feelings and emotions are coming up, that's what's coming up. But there's no one to give them any credence or any belief, anyone. So the irony is almost the very project of somebody who goes to kind of resolve their trauma is in fact, you know, reinforcing the trauma of the me.

Yeah. Well, I looked into mind power, thought power and then went down this path and that path, every other path for 16 years. Until it got me eventually to the target error. And he pointed out simplicity that I wasn't the body, I wasn't the mind, I was that pure awareness, which was all there was. I was that pure awareness, which was all there was. I was that pure awareness, which was all there was. I was that pure awareness, which was all there was. And I said, well, I'll never be caught in the mind again. And I walked out the door and I was. Yeah, that didn't stop it.

But the energy of belief couldn't go in. Once you see something as false, can you believe it to the same extent? So that energy of belief wasn't going into it. No belief going into it. There's nowhere for it, nothing to relate for it, nothing to keep it together. And it started to dissolve. And have a look at belief. A dictionary definition of belief is an unquestioned acceptance of something in the absence of reason. Acceptance of an alleged fact without positive knowledge or proof. If you put your belief to that question, they'll fall apart. You can't accept it, you can't believe it, but it's not true.

They fall away. But for people who have no idea, have no idea of the concept that you're revealing today, and who are stuck in a traumatic story, it's like a distorted vibrating pattern going on, I kind of agree with you. The very fact whether they're consciously thinking about it or not, they have signed up to a workshop or conference which is under the theme trauma. So there's some identification with that story. But I also believe trauma's been there from the very beginning of humanity. And what's exciting right now is there is an awareness of just shifting the attention, interrupted patterning with Peter Levine and the work that's going on, and creating new neuron pathways, which is actually coming back to Tibetan Buddhism, which is shifting the attention, experiencing it a little, shift your attention off it.

Experience it a little, shift your attention off it. And my understanding and my training is that's the only thing that's actually helping these people with trauma in itself. Is it's not about putting the attention on the trauma, it's about fully experiencing it and then shift the attention off. And in that practice, there can be a moment that they recognize they're not the trauma, they're not the one putting the attention there, and they're not where they're putting the attention off. But that's the only thing in now that's available in consciousness, and science is backing that up by creating new neural pathways, which I find personally really exciting.

But the very fact that they have signed up for a trauma conference is just suggesting that they are identified with that still. So then where do you work within that paradigm? And Bob's like way beyond that. It's a full stop. Well that's why I'm wondering about the very reinforcement, because obviously the people who are signing in are going to be the therapists, and the people who are going to be working with those people. Correct, yeah. And what role do those best intentioned practitioners have in actually reinforcing and kind of building these stories around this experience? The latest finding is not feeding any story at all.

It's actually no story. And just shifting the attention, which is what Tibetan Buddhism was about. That's the whole premise of meditation was attention. Strengthening your attention. The same as what Nisargadatta talked about. Come back to I am that. Bring your attention back. So it's a different premise totally. It's not the same. You go down these paths, that won't lead them somewhere else. It may, it may not. Also you often Bob say that everything is valid in the appearance. The fact that I am not the body doesn't mean that I'm not going to get artificial hip if the normal one will get exhausted. And same with the mind.

Mind is a software. If there is something wrong in the software, and there are tools to correct it, it doesn't mean it's happening to the me. It happens to the equipment. Like Bob had a student. You don't call him student really. But the guy who was showing up here, he put out the book with amazing insights. And for lifetime he is suffering of schizophrenia. Doesn't mean he's not going to be taking appeals. He did investigate. He did realize that he's not a person. But the pattern of the mind, however broken, is still going on. Same as trauma, repeated pattern. So those things are all valid in the appearance.

Intelligence expressing as the possibility of investigating the validity of self. And intelligence expressing as the tools helping the software function more kind of efficiently. They are all beautiful. They ought to be appreciated. This is an old worn out tool. It's had its day. It might be useful. Perhaps to recognize clearly. It did happen in a sense. But it's not the totality of you. Once it's seen clearly, it can be moved on from. Isn't what we're talking about here the trauma? What Bob talks about, the trauma is in the past. And we're present awareness. So what I'm getting is that these people that have been abused and they're actually holding on to something that's not there anymore.

And... They are not really holding. It's a condition. There's nobody there. It's just... But the thing is this is what Bob's teaching. It's sort of like... It's, I don't know, like a... Getting... Separating yourself from that and seeing that as that's what happened in my past. This is here and now. The pattern might still responding. Let's say you have the phobia of spiders or whatever. And even though there is no... And even though there is no you, when the body comes across the spider, there will be contraction or there will be whatever. So it's not really your pattern. But the pattern is still there. If it can be corrected, why not?

If it can't, whatever. Doesn't the mind create its own prisons though? The mind creates its own prisons. There's no real bars there. But the mind has a fantasy prison, doesn't it? Yeah. Just simply what is wrong with right now if you don't think about it. If you do that, you need to pause the thought for a moment. Without a thought, what can you see? You can't say it's good. You can't say it's there. Pleasant, painful, anything at all about it. But you haven't stopped... Your heart hasn't stopped beating. You haven't stopped breathing. Your hair and fingernails haven't stopped growing. Your food hasn't stopped growing. The functioning is going on, but thought is stopped.

And thought is the word. And the beginning was the word. The word is the cause of all your problems. What are you without the word? Look at the little child. In the nine months in the womb it didn't have any thoughts. The two years functioning before it learnt any words it didn't have any thoughts. It was living and functioning all right without the word. Then we learnt words. And took on our parents, our school, our society and nations all reinforced us with the word. And continue to learn the words of science. But realise that every word you've ever learnt, ever spoken was learnt. There are lots of words you haven't learnt, you haven't spoken.

Why haven't you? If you are the word. It tells you in the beginning was the word. The word was with God. The word was. God. All God was is a word. Which we put all sorts of different labels on. And try to label it as some shape or form. But it's that intelligence energy which we can't label shape or form. We try to grasp it as a word. Put the personality on it, the person. That word person, where does it come from? The mask. The mask, persona the mask, this mask or conceptual image we believe to be real. When you recognise you're not a person, you're not a mask, what word have you got on yourself?

The word that's left is the sense of presence, the I am-ness. But you don't even need to use the words I am to coordinate, you can't negate the means. If there's no past there can be no me. What human beings do is they bring the past into the present and call that me. You know, I was talking about trauma. Trauma may have happened 20 or 30 years ago. Re-experiencing that trauma, which is generally what people do that are traumatised. They're not actually re-experiencing the actual event. They only have a memory of it, which comes down to words, images, sounds, not the actual event. So they're taking the words or the memory, you know, the sounds to be the actual, like it's happening again.

All a human being is experiencing are the words or sounds or images. And we take the words, the sounds and the images to be the actual event again. So we're bringing the past into the present, you know, it's happening again. No, it's not. So not. It's absolutely not. How is that? It's happening again. You know, the most insane thing we can do as human beings is to bring the past into the present and call that me. There is no past. There's actually not a past. It doesn't exist. It's only an idea. It's literally only an idea. Ever fresh, ever new, ever present, ever now. That's all there ever is.

Everything else is just... noise, sounds, concepts, ideas that we attach ourselves to and say, that's me. You know, I think people that are going through traumas and, you know, aren't able to sit in a room like this and hear this, that are being helped with trauma, I'm all for it. Totally, completely all for it. Having said that, I love the opportunity to be in a room full of people like that, and gently, just gently work with them and introduce them to this. As opposed to diving into their story or, I mean, you know, that shifting of attention. That would be a great start. A fantastic start.

Just the shift of attention. Okay. It's just... But having people see that what they're shifting their attention away from is just an idea, not the actual event. Not the thing in and of itself. It's just... It's just a memory. You know, without memory, to me, does not exist. At all. Can't. What we say we are is our life experiences. All the memories that I've got of myself and where I've been and what I've done, you know, and that ends up being the story of my life. The sum total of the me. But it's not here now anymore. Any of that stuff. It's not present. It's not here.

All I've got is a description of it. Just a description of the past. And we take the description to be the actual. We take the description to be the real thing. It's like Bob was saying before, you know, the word fire won't burn your mouth. You can't wash in the word water. You can't. All just descriptions in our head that we take to be real. They're not. They're just ideas. And also, if you have this trauma and just as you were saying, it's shifting the attention. It's having such a wonderful results. Why not to do it without trauma also? Like most of our day we spend in a thinking, in the projecting what is going to be a next moment or what is going to be tomorrow.

And all unproductive thinking. What should I have said to that person who said this and, you know, all that mental noise. Why not to shift attention the way Bob says, full stop. Full stop. Just shift attention out of the thinking into what's actually happening. If I have inner dialogue about someone told me something or should have done something, is that person in the room? No, it's not. What is it? What is in the content of my seeing, hearing, tasting, touching, smelling? Because this is the actuality. And very often. I'm conceptually leaving the actuality and going in the story of, for the story in my head.

And then if it works with trauma, it will work with anything. I mean, what a great idea to just pause. Just stop. What's wrong with right now if you don't think about it? Or just full stop or just back to the breathing. Okay. There are things being seen, heard, tasted. The leaving this is going on. And of course thinking is a functional wonderful manifestation, part of the brilliance of the intelligence. But instead of being used by the thinking, now the thinking can be utilized for the functioning when it is necessary. Not like 99% of the time of a chatter. Yes, noticing before, interest moving to the hooks that take you away to the avoidance fantasies, the watch and telly, the whatever.

Sometimes, if you're lucky, that becomes the shifting of interest. It's just going down in the universe. And really, you know, there's no doing anything about it. But it becomes more relaxing, I guess, when interest tends to be back more without moving off. Or when it's seeing almost about to go off into the head and be lost to what's going on. And it just shifts around and just becomes more relaxing when you're off less. That's beautifully said. Beautiful wording. Shift of interest. What's really important? The stuff in the head or what's happening really? Well, whatever's going on at the time seems to be what's important. Yeah, the interest, you know.

You're more interested in what is than in what isn't. And like you talk about the juice, yeah. It's just for me. The juice is in. Yeah. And I accept that memory as well as explicit memory. All memory. So explicit memory is all memory. Yeah. And you don't accept that you're experiencing trauma as well. Still. Still. You don't accept that experiencing trauma through implicit memory are not, you don't accept that they are experiencing now. What I'm saying, they're experiencing an energy that revels through their body. Absolutely. There's no more. I should say once more. But they're doing so without realizing it's a memory. Correct. So the energy gets relived in the body.

That's how powerful it is. Yeah, yeah. I appreciate that. But there's, as Baron Katie says, everything that's happening is for you. If you take on that concept. And there's something with the people who work with trauma, because you have to be very skilled to talk about trauma, honestly. You have to go through quite a training rather than just come in with the advaita. Sure, sure. But my little understanding from the little training that I've had is trauma has a lot of different things. Trauma is a vibration that naturally will keep repeating itself because actually it wants to resolve. There's an intention to come back to harmony.

That trauma will keep resurfacing and keep repeating itself because it has a wish to come back to the flow again. So if you take that on, it's not personal, but you can't sit in a room with someone who is really in a traumatized state. Yeah. Because their entire body is lit up with trauma and come in with the advaita. I think that's arrogant, personally. That's fucking arrogant. Yeah, yeah, you couldn't. You cannot. You have to come in to where they are and not judge the trauma. That's also the intelligence functioning through that body-mind organism, just as the intelligence is growing the hair and the nails and what Bob is telling us over and over again.

So first of all, there's nothing wrong with trauma, and trauma is just a vibration that's that's wanting to live itself fully and it will find its own resolution and when you're trained in a treasure trauma therapist as far as I know this takes time it is working within a time bound you can't just wake them up it can happen and that's the intelligence waking them up but actually tremendous sensitivity and compassion has to happen and people who know what they're dealing with not come in with advaita and concepts and the same with everything same with mental obsession, no they don't, they don't have to be very gentle but also you know you have trauma you take time and where do you draw the line you know there are people obsessed about their jobs careers about their affairs that's also what's traumatizing but there's something energetically going on with it often the mind is not even conscious of it it's so how within the physical and that's why people are using somatic experiencing so they feel it a little detached you can't overwhelm the system because you're dealing with little nervous systems that have not grown or matured so what you're you know you need to it's like as Osho said you need to have a healthy ego to really get this stuff but if you don't have a healthy ego and you're functioning totally from a place of deficiency and your little nervous system is so little and you're not able to get it out of your body and yet you're in an adult body you need to tread very carefully with that you don't and that's you don't come in at that level here when you're dealing with the little one here you have to move differently it's a different field fortunately life does it and fortunately in that arena when people choose to work as practitioners in the trauma field I've met incredibly incredible kind of like Bodhisattva They might not be talking spirituality, but I've met it in Christian realms and I've met it in Buddhist realms, but there's this real selfless service because of what it demands to work with trauma.

And that's the beauty. That's the intelligence. That's the beauty. That's the intelligence functioning and it's finding its own resolution. And if I, I just played with your question and I thought, you know what, maybe that's what it's about. Maybe one day there'll be an absolute resolution for all of humanity. But right now there's so many wars, there's so much trauma, there's so much bullshit on this planet. And who knows, maybe we're at the lowest of the lowest of this planet. Maybe there's more planets, more evolved. Who knows? We'll never know. Big stories. Our little eye will never know. But I do believe that there is an intelligence that's functioning and it's for us to wake up.

Somehow I believe. And even the wars are included. Even the wars and traumas. Huh? And there's somebody in the audience community who believes it now. Yeah. And often waking up happens in those deep places of darkness and pain and anguish. It's necessary. Often. Watch that word believe. I believe, Bob. You take it, keep it as your ... I like it. It helps me too in those times where I've had darkness. It helps you a lot. That it gives some sense that there's, you know, that there's going to be change. And when the trauma does come ... Does it come to you? Does it come to me?

Does it? Does it come to you? Does it come to you? Does it come to you? I think it does. Does it come to you? Does it come to you? Yes. Does it come to you? Yes. Does it come to you? It sort of resolves over a long period of time usually. Often. Yeah, that can be a really good feeling about realising and a good realisation that life did it. And so in a sense life is benevolent. Absolutely. And no one's doing it. No one's doing it. So no one can do it wrong either, even if Advaita shows up, which I doubt it would. The concept of hope goes right up the window.

Okay, time's caught up with us.