Sailor Bob - Non duality spiel and discussion

Shana, Tony, Bill, Tony, Robert, Moira, Terry, Pat. OK, the same old, same old. You might wonder why we do it, but have a look into it somewhere. We don't teach you anything here and we don't tell you anything. Understand that right from the start. What we do is point toward and ask you to look to where we're pointing to, to see for yourself. Because only you yourself can really see it or grasp it or understand it or know it, whatever label you like to put it, to see for yourself. There's nothing new we point to. You'll see it's in all the ancient texts. It's the basis of them all when you look in closely enough.

Hinduism, for instance, they call it Advaita. Advaita translated means non-duality. And they try to describe non-duality, try to describe it. Because it can't be described. By saying it's one without a second, not two. And add on it, it's one without a second, not two. Just this, nothing else. The Buddhist teachings will tell you the same thing using different words, where they'll say it's non-conceptual, ever fresh presence awareness. Add on to it just this, nothing else. Christianity and other religions talking about God or the Supreme or these other things will say it's omnipresence, omnipotence, omniscience. The so-called God is omnipresence, it's total presence. It's omnipotence, total power, not mind power, thought power or any other power.

So you see, if there's any mind power, thought power or any other power coming up, how can it be total? You move something away from the totality. When the recognition that there is only one, it is all there is, you won't bother moving away from that totality. Omnipresence meaning total presence, omnipotence, total power, and omniscience, total intelligence. When I'm talking about your intelligence, I'm not talking about your intellects. Because there are different degrees of intellect in this room. Some of you are a lot smarter than I'm ever likely to be. Some of you mightn't be quite so smart. It's the same intelligence that's functioning in the universe.

Another name for intelligence is knowing. Anybody in this room who's not knowing right now, knowing that you are knowing this, knowing that, can you negate that knowingness? So the knowing, the ING on it, doesn't that mean it's an activity, it's something that's going on all the time? You just don't start and stop knowing. Knowing is constantly going on, it's an activity. And isn't any activity a movement of energy? That's where I get the label intelligence energy, the activity of knowing. And there is no one who is not knowing in this room right now. Knowing this, knowing that, and a lot of other things. You might be knowing and believing you are a person.

You are an individual. You are a separate entity. You are a human being. All concepts that you've learned are acquired, and you take that to be the, have a knowing of those things and take them to be real. Another way I put it, I'm not speaking to anybody. I'm not speaking to anybody. I'm not speaking to any mind. And I mean by that I'm not speaking to the body, mind or identity that you believe yourself to be. That's just a pattern, the essence is for patterning, shaming and following. I'm speaking to that I am, that I am. That sense of presence translates through your mind, the knowing that you are, to say that you are, you've got to say I am.

As the thought I am. That's the sense of presence. That's the sense of presence translates it. And that's the I am and that I am, that sense of presence. That's the I am that everything is, or the you or everything else is. It's one essence appearing, patterning, shaping, forming, and expressing as everything. And that one, as I say, is not two. It's not a duality. So though there appears to be separate entities, individuals and persons in this room, it has never moved away from the oneness, though it appears to be so. And look at this manifestation. You'll see this manifestation is a dualistic manifestation. And it couldn't be otherwise.

There's day, night, silent sound, movement, stillness, winter, summer, all patterns, vibrating patterns of that intelligence entity, manifesting and forming and shaping what this universe is. It's a dualistic manifestation. But don't the ancients tell us, and point out in all the ancient texts, that this manifestation is Maya. It's illusion. It's dreamlike. It's imaginary or Maya, or an illusionary manifestation. And again, look at it. A manifestation is a phenomenal manifestation. It's a manifestation made up of phenomena. You, me, and everything else is a phenomenon. Look up your dictionary definition of phenomena. The definition of phenomena is that which appears to be. So you're sitting there seemingly real and substantial and solid.

Actually, you're only appearing to be so. It's only how it's appearing. It's not what you actually are. You've got duality and what they call non-duality. People put the label on this, what I'm talking about, non-duality. That's just another false label also. And people say, oh, this non-duality's no good. It's not right or anything. And they say, I'm speaking from a dualistic point of view. Well, where would duality come from if it wasn't from non-duality? Could there be duality without non-duality? And could there be non-duality without duality? There couldn't. So they're not two. So that's... All we're pointing to, we're saying to have a look and see for yourself, are you this person?

Are you this human being that you believe yourself to be? Are you separate from the manifestation? They're the things we need to investigate and see for ourselves. Are you this person? Well, have a look at that. Where did this idea of person come from? Doesn't it come from some ancient language? Persona, a mask? When they were talking about that, they meant we formed a conceptual mask or a mask made up of concepts or ideas. I'm Bob, the Australian, the good fella, and taken this to be what we are, a conceptual image. And it's made up of past events, experience and conditioning. It's not made up of what is right now.

We're constantly relating to the past events, experiences, and taking ourselves to be that past, conceptual event and experience, this person, me, Bob. So I've taken a conceptual image, and that conceptual image is reinforced daily by our schools, parents, society, and our nations. They constantly reinforce this belief that you are the person, you are the individual. And very few pause to have a look and investigate. But there have always been some down through the ages of investigating, and that's where the big traditions and religions form around it, and those investigating seeing the truth of it. But that's been corrupted also going on. As it goes on through the years, people put their own take on it and try and gain some power from it and use from it.

So all these religions are really corrupted. Moving away from the one essence, it's peering, patting, shape and forming, it's everything. Have a look at these things. Are you this person you believe yourself to be? You round up the person as a conceptual image. What are you if you're not the person? You're not a conceptual image. You believe you are this human being? You call yourself a human being? That's the label or excuse we use when things are going wrong for us. All I can't do is, well, after all, I'm only human. We put the boundaries and limitations on ourselves like that. Being human or a human being?

What if this conceptual image you've got about the so-called God, don't you call this God the supreme being? He's... God is a being greater than what I am. Greater than the rest of us are. Well, where is he? What does he sit on? How did he come into existence? What formed that if he's a pattern? And we've got this idea of a greater being. We call ourselves a human being and God the supreme being. What if you take that label which we put on, supreme of, and the label human of? And then you try to separate the beingness in this room. Do you realise I'm being this person?

That's being a chair, that's being a carpet, that's being Bill. Everything is that being. Is that being the cat? It's all being. All pure being. Which gets corrupted and conceptualised by the labels we put on. Now have a look at this labels. What are labels? We've learnt words. Labels. It doesn't tell you in the Bible, in the beginning it was the Word. The Word was God and the Word was God. The Word was God. That's what they're telling you. It's a Word. A label, just like everything else. Nothing else. So everything was made by Him by the Word. There's nothing that was made by not by Him.

This isn't what we're doing. The chair is a Word. The table is a Word. The carpet is a Word. Putting words or labels on those things. The chair was a tree one time. It's changed. Carpet was wool or probably something else. Put labels on it, it'll change you. Now have a look at the Word. And you'll see the Word's not the thing. When you look at the Word, the Word's not the thing at all. Try and drink the Word. Take the Word water. Try and drink the Word. Try and swim in the Word. Try and drown in the Word. You'll realise you can't do anything with the Word.

The Word's just a label we put on the actuality. Of itself, it's nothing. Take the Word fire. Can you burn your mouth with your Word? Has it come out of your mouth? Does it burn? Is the Word fire? There's supposed to be fire coming out of your mouth. Can you cook with the Word? Can you eat yourself with the Word? You can't with the Word. Because the Word's just a label. So what about this word, I or me? What are you referring to when you're saying I or me? Isn't it this conceptual image? The concept you've got yourself? Because you say, you add to that, I'm Bob, I'm Australian, I'm this person.

I'm this, that, and that. Put the words on ourselves. And the Word's not the thing. Now we'll go back and have a look at that. And you'll realise that every word you've ever spoken, or ever liked to speak, has been learnt. How many words were you born with? And you'll realise you weren't born with any words. You didn't learn any words until you were about two, two and a half, when the capacity of reasoning. Now you might understand what that scripture was saying, isn't it? In the beginning was the Word. You didn't begin. You can't remember your birth. You didn't begin until you started learning those words, about two, two and a half.

Try and go beyond that if you can. So how can you say you began, when you don't remember your birth? So the Word, as you say, you see the Word's not the thing or the real. And we're functioning and living by the Word continually. And the thing is, the sad thing is, we believed in the Word. We believed the Word was real, the Word was true. And we've been encapsulated in a conceptual image, an image of words, that put the limitations on us. We're human beings. We're this, that and the other. I am this body, mind, entity. Limiting the unlimited potential. You are the totality.

That's formed that pattern you call you, and is expressing through that pattern you call you. It is the life essence that's foaming for it and keeping it moving. It's able to express. It can express in thoughts, feelings and emotions and utilise, recognise other patterns of expression and utilise some of them with the capacity of reasoning that develops in us. We all, when we're about two, two and a half, start to reason, the capacity of reasoning develops in us. Which is a capacity we have, but other animals, birds, insects, don't have that particular capacity. They have different capacities, some of which are more developed than what our capacity of reasoning is.

But the capacity of reasoning is not as developed in animals, birds and insects as it is with us. A bird has better eyesight than you and I have. That's the capacity of seeing. We can't see the sums of it. It has a capacity of flying. We can't do that naturally. We haven't got that capacity. But through the capacity of reasoning, we've learnt to build ourselves eyeglasses if our eyes are failing, binoculars, telescopes, and things like that. And things like that that's enabled us to see better, through the capacity of reasoning. It's a useful capacity. Through that same capacity of reasoning, we've built ourselves planes, helicopters, balloons, and all sorts of things that enable us to fly.

So that capacity of reasoning is not the enemy, it's a useful thing. So realise that though thought is the problem, it can be utilised. That's why it needs to be constantly recognised and seeing if the thought or the word is the real or some conceptual image you've got that's relating to and hiding this, covering yourself up, obscuring your true nature with the word. Go back to when you were born. You can't remember your birth. But when did you begin? Well, go back and look at that. Look at your father and your mother. You can go back as far as you like. Look at that. That animating intelligence energy, that's the life force.

That's the life essence. It's patterned, shaped and formed your father. And if he's still alive, it's still patterning to this day. Enabled in that pattern, through the essence of the food eaten and the prana, a little microscopic particle called a sperm to form in that pattern. You can't see it with your naked eye. It's minute. It needs a microscope to see it. The same in your mother. That animating life essence pattern shaped and formed your mother. Enabled in that pattern, a little microscopic particle called an egg or an ovum to form in that. Now that egg or ovum was suffused with a innate intelligence. It knew what to do.

It knew to swim. It knew to fasten itself onto the uterus. And the sperm, innate intelligence and that, it knew what to do. It swam to the ovum. Put it under a microscope, you'll see it has the capacity of swimming. And it knew where to swim to. It knew what was in that body. Make straight for the ovum. The first in best served. It gets there first, the others all concluded. And with those two coming together, the intelligence energy in those two, the knowing factor, pure being knowing, the loving, to be doubled that cell. It's innate intelligence was new. Was to double that cell, redoubled it and doubled it again.

And the little embryo began to form. The little fetus, little embryo began to form. And that's all. cell doubling. So you think in this human being, this individual, this person, what were you doing about it then? Did you say I better grow an arm or an eye or a leg or a heart? You couldn't, didn't have any say because you didn't have a brain, you had no words, you couldn't say anything. But the innate intelligence knew what to do, how to form pattern shape and form into what you are to this day. And that's that innate intelligence functioning through that pattern, through the food essence of the food, the prana and the energy, forming these physical patterns and all sorts of other pattern shapes and forms which you are today.

But there was no entity doing anything about it then. So how did we take on this idea we are this entity, we are this individual, we are this person? Well about two, two and a half, the capacity of reasoning developed in you. That's when you started to learn words, you're learning words, you're picking up words along the way for your parents and you started to learn words. Parents fussing around you saying, you're little Johnny, you're a good boy, you're this, that, and the other. And you learnt these words. You learnt words like I and me. And the little child took this I and me to be real and he looked out there where we were seeing everything as it is before he learnt any words, just as it is, unaltered, unmodified, un-created.

He looks out there and he says, that doesn't fit little Johnny. So that's not I. That's not me. And that's when the sense of separation came upon us. When we looked out there and thought that there were things beyond our sense of is-ness, So Abel's laser batons for me that was not I or not me, we feel, when that came about we felt insecure and vulnerable, because we didn't know what it was. We were insecure and vulnerable and that's when our search really started. From that on the search was, To find security, to find peace, to find a natural happiness and contentment. Or abiding in that infinite, being in tune with this infinite.

But we're starting now from the viewpoint we are an individual, a person. Now you might wonder why it hasn't happened, your intelligence is looking at you. Because we're trying to make me whole, trying to make me self-realised. We're trying to make me aware, or me as knowing. This I or me, which you can't do much with, we've added that I or me, events, experiences and conditioning. Things that have happened to us are added on to it. Like I am Bob, the Australian, the good fella, I'm not so good, I'm unhappy, I'm fearful, I'm depressed, I'm anxious. All these concepts are added on. But we're trying to make me whole.

Based on past events and experiences, things that have happened in the past, which are now dead. So we're constantly relating to a dead image. And no wonder we cannot keep up with life. Life is spontaneous. It's ever fresh and ever moving as the Buddha said. It's not conceptual, ever fresh. Presence awareness. It's transient. I tell you it's transient, it's constantly changing. There is nothing static about it at all. And look at your life. And see what is static about that. Why aren't you the little child today if it was static? Why didn't you stay that way? Why aren't you the young fella you were a few years ago?

Why are you a bit older? And why are you getting older all the time? Because there's nothing static there. It's transient, it's changing constantly. But we're constantly relating to this I or me, this conceptual image we form. We added the events and experiences. The events and experience to me. I get me, Bob with the Australian and the good fellas. Being constantly related to that and we're trying to keep up with it. Trying to make this happen and that happen. Make me whole or complete. And we think this I needs to become whole or complete. But it's just a thought. It's just a word. How can it become whole?

What is it that is whole and complete in you right now? Isn't it that sense of presence? The knowing that you are? If you haven't put any conceptual labels on it, isn't it just as it is? And it's not contaminated or corrupted by any of the labels. It is the totality itself. Because where are you going to pinpoint it as something separate and apart from that essence? And when we're pinpointing on the beliefs and the idea we are separate, and seeing other things as separate, that's where all our problems are and our problems continue to be there. There's nothing separate. In this manifestation. It is the one essence appearing and expressing as everything.

But it appears to be separate. That's why you need to recognise the appearance. And appearance is not the actuality. It's not how it really is. It's only seemingly so. So as I say, you can't do much with this I or me. What we've added on is events, experience and conditioning and formed a mental picture about what we believe ourselves to be. A conceptual image. A mental picture made up of past events and experience. Have a look at it. I'm Bob. I'm the Australian. I'm a good fellow. I'm not so good. I've had a bad childhood. I was unhappy. I was depressed. I was abused. Look at the image I'm putting on myself.

Conceptual, based up on dead images. And the energy of belief going in to make it seem real. And Shakespeare told you a couple of hundred years ago, he says there's nothing either good or bad, but thinking makes it so. So it's the thinking, these thoughts I'm bringing up, put the labels on it, is making it good or bad. And the saga tells you nothing can trouble you. And he means exactly that. Nothing at all in this world, in this universe, can trouble you, except in your own imagination. Break that word imagination down to image in. Imagine. And that's all we're doing. See, that's all we're doing.

We're making mental images through concepts, words, ideas, and patterns, shapes and forms, making mental images in our head, taken to be real, and giving the image some reality and relating to the image, something separate and apart from it. So what we've added onto this I thought, and believed in, the energy of belief goes in, it's seemingly something solid, is what we call the self-center. It becomes the self-center, the reference point, or the ego. And that's all the ego is, is a conceptual image. And it's a dead image of that. It's based on past events. It's consisting of images and labels. Have a look at yourself and see.

So it's a dead image. How can I keep up with life? And everything becomes relative to this image. And don't you realize that relativity is dualism? And haven't we pointed out there is absolutely no duality and non-duality? See that for yourself. So these dualistic images we're creating and taking to be real are a total fiction. They don't exist. If you take them on board, you see, you'll suffer a recording man. Wei Wei Wei told you, why are you unhappy? Because everything you say, everything you think, and everything you do is for yourself. It is for this conceptual image. And he says the risen one. When you realize there isn't a self to relate to, why the hell are you going to be unhappy?

We're miserable. Oh, I'm not liking this. I'm not liking this. Aren't you going to be what you actually are? The flow of life. Go along with that flow. Recognizing it as it is. Watching it as it is. Living as it is. What is means unaltered, unmodified, uncorrected. So we've got this image which everything is relative to. And that is the cause of all our psychological suffering. It's only me that can be fearful. Only me that can be unhappy. Only me that can be depressed. Jealous or envious. Me is the cause of all my psychological problems. And the fear, the anger, the stress, the guilt, the shame, are the effects of the cause me.

Now you've looked at this stuff a bit. You've heard of karma. Isn't that what so-called karma is? Cause and effect. But what if I ask myself a simple question? If I'm not relating to the cause, and there is no cause, can there be an effect? Well you don't have to be a Rhodes Scholar if you reckon there's not relating to a cause. There can't be an effect without a cause. That's what karma is. So what's going to happen to your karma when you see that? You're not relating to the effect. There's no karma. It disappears. All this stuff you believed in, you'll see it in a different light.

It's no longer relative. And that's why we need to investigate this me. This self-satyr, this mental image. To see if it's correct or not. This ego. Because in the... The stuff that I looked at, a lot of the scriptures will say you've got to trample on this ego, you've got to kill it, you've got to sublimate it, do all sorts of things. The stuff I understood and was pointed to was pointed out there's absolutely no ego. It's a total fiction. It doesn't exist at all. It never has. So you're not going to just hear that and take it on board because you're so steeped in the idea of relating to the ego.

That's what you need to investigate. And see for yourself. Who or what is this me? How would I do that? Well, I start with everybody. I'm seeing right now. Everybody is seeing right now. Everybody is hearing right now. Isn't that a fact? You can't negate it. Yes, I'm seeing. I'm hearing. Then I'd ask myself, does my eye, my physical eye, tell me I see? Well, my physical eye is not saying, Bob, look at this, look at that. Oh, that's good or that's bad. It's yours. You realize the physical eye is not saying anything, but it's the instrument through which the seeing is happening. If you didn't have an eye, you were blind, you wouldn't be able to see.

So it's the instrument that's seeing that. And it's translated by the thought, I see. So the thought has its purpose. It's translating the seeing into the thought, I see. But remember, it's no longer a pure seeing when you say, I see. Because what have you done to the seeing, this eye? You've related all this conceptual memory. It's me, Bob, the Australian, the good fellow, and all that goes along with it, thinks it has the capacity of seeing. The same with the hearing. My ear is not saying, listen to this, Bob, or listen to that, that's good or that's bad. It's not saying anything. But it is the instrument also which the hearing is happening.

And it's also translated by the thought, I see, I hear. So again, by a conceptual image, I'll ask myself this. Can this thought, see, test it out. Can this thought, I see, actually see? Well, can the thought see? Close your eyes, look around the room and see what you can see with the thought. What can you see in the room with your eyes closed? You can't see anything. So the thought, I see, that translates it afterwards, is the seeing, can't actually see. The same with the hearing. Put your hands over your ears and see what you hear with the thought. And you realise the thought, I hear, can't hear.

So you see these two things I've added. That seeing and hearing, the eye concept, the conceptual image, can't see, can't hear. What about the thought, I am aware? Well, have a look at that. Anybody in this room unaware right now? You realise, no, I'm not unaware, so you must be aware. And you realise that's always awareness. If you're not unaware now, when were you unaware? Unawareness has always been while this talk's going on. And you realise, so it's not held there by a thought, a feeling or an emotion. It's just happening. So if you're not unaware, you must be aware. The thought, I choose, that's another big one.

We think we choose our thoughts. But why would you ever have an unhappy or miserable thought if you could choose them? You choose to be that way? I don't. I don't know anybody that does. But these thoughts come up, they appear, and people take them on board and they suffer accordingly from the thought. So what we've just pointed out, we've pointed out this ego is believed in entity, can't see, can't hear, can't be aware, can't choose, cannot do anything of itself. It's got no substance whatsoever. So try and pinpoint a thought, see what substance it's got. It's got no independent nature. It is a total fiction.

We've never investigated it and been bound in it all our lives. You want to continue to be that way? We know the truth. The scripture saying is know the truth and the truth will set you free. You can be free of these beliefs that we've taken on board. Just put a little bit of simple investigation, a little bit of simple looking. And you realize it's that same intelligence energy that's functioning, it's manifestation, it's breathing it. It's beating your heart right now. It's growing your hair and your fingernails and digesting your feelings. Is there a me or I doing any of that? Or is it the intelligence energy that's doing it?

It's beating your heart, growing your hair, causing the next thought to arise. A thought to arise. So you must come back to this. If that's doing it, what must I be? I must be that. That is what I am. And that's the Maha Vakya, the great mantra. I am that. And we've known that in our language all along and never believed it because we say that is a chair. That is a carpet. That is Bill. We're seeing everything as that but then we label it as something other. Bill, the chair, carpet. It's the label we put on it and take that to be something different from that that I am.

And don't they tell you, abide as that? When you recognise that you are that, abide as that, live as that, settle back into it, relax into it. Don't conceptualise any separate individual or persona on it at all. Be that. In the recognition of that you can't be anything other. And you realise that that is the answer to life and you are that life. That's what I'm pointing out. You can take it and tear it apart, do what you like with it if you can or settle into it, understand it, recognise it through a few questions or whatever. But away you go. Good. Searching, it's in the other direction basically.

Yeah, yeah. Yes, it is very simple. That's what we know. We don't realise when you know it how simple it is. And then trying to move away from it you can't anyway. So it's a matter of just relaxing back into what you actually are. And it's not a matter of going back either anyway. It's always fresh and new. But being with it, abiding as it. Yes, you recognise the chatter for what it is. Conceptual ideas and going on. It loses its hold. It loses its... You can't get the same intensity of belief into your habit pattern of things anymore because you've seen through them. And that's another thing we have at Oakley.

A belief is not the actual. Look up your dictionary definition of belief. It's an unquestioned acceptance of something in the absence of reason. Acceptance of an alleged fact without positive knowledge or proof. Now we've taken on these beliefs from our parents, schools, society. Taken on believing to be real and never questioned them. So we're locked into them. But have a look at it. How many beliefs have you seen through? Years ago when people stood on the shore and looked out where the sea and sky met they were told don't go out there you'll fall off the edge of the earth. Do you believe that today?

You don't. Go down to the ocean and I say give me a bucket of blue water out of the sea. Would you believe that? You realise you can't. The ocean might appear to be blue but you'll never get a bucket of blue water out of it because it's not blue. The water in the mirror is what appears to be water or a mirror drawn in a row when you drive up and nothing in there. When was it ever there? So there's lots of different analogies in life that point out that it's all... Maya. It's all illusion. And we're frightened to let go. We've been hanging on for so long and living for this boy to be.

What would I do if I let go of it? The thing is try it and see. As the Sakata says, have the courage to be as nothing as nothing and see the world as it is nothing. If they're both in reality no thing what are you going to do? You can't separate yourself from it. You've got to move along with it as it is. And as it is the appropriate thoughts, feelings, emotions, activities will go on. Good to see. And everything when it's questioned can be brought back to its actuality. And they tell you to ask the question, who am I? When you look into that, what is who am I?

Who am I is just a question. And people search to try and out what this I is and all the rest of it for years and years and don't get anywhere. But they say it's just a question and they ask who's the questioner? Well the questioner must be the person who's the questioner. Well the questioner must be the question. Who am I? Nobody else could ask it. So they're both cancelled each other out. There's the answer to the question. Who am I which people have searched for years for? When you say that you don't really know I'm not a question or a questioner. What's left will I am that in which the questioner, question and everything else appear on and disappears on.

I like when you say that have the courage to be as nothing and recognize everything as nothing also. And then when you investigate you bring everything to its true nature which is nothing. Yeah. And most of the stuff that troubles are are just a bundle of thoughts and images which are nothing. Exactly, yeah. You don't realize it. Leave the thoughts high and round. Like that story that I tell about the surfy monk travelling along. He comes to this town. He's a beggar, a mendicant, you know. He comes to this town. There's a big to-do going on for the king. They've got that big hall. Doing it up, decorating it, putting all sorts of things in.

They've got all these different chairs for the different dignitaries to sit in. And he walks straight in and he walks right up to the king's chair and sits there. So the chief dignitary raised his hand. Hey, hey, what are you doing? He said, He says, Who do you think you are? Are you a guest here? No, he says, I'm more than that. He says, Are you a dignitary? No, he says, I'm more than that. He says, Are you the chief minister? He says, No, I'm more than that. So he gets a bit sarcastic and he says, Well, are you God? No, he says, I'm more than that.

And the minister says, He says, More than God? He says, There's nothing more than God. He says, I am that. Who can throw him out of the king's chair then? Nothing. And so is everything else. All the problems with health problems, financial problems, relationship problems, all those problems are really nothing. Yeah. That's when you come to realize when you're living and abiding as that essence. You see, this world, all the problems that we had in this world and all the problems in the... They dissolve. A little bit of the sting that's left in them doesn't hurt very much. That disappears also. They're always a problem of the...

of someone, of the body. And if you're not the body, those problems are not your problems, really. And they're always in the story, like in this immediacy, what's the problem? And also, you said in a non-dual way, can there be anything apart... If it's nothing, there must be the everything as well. Can you separate the two? The everything is the nothing and the nothing is the everything. And the dependent trance. Yeah. That's what we put... We put boundaries on things. The labels become the boundaries, the separation. Good, bad, pleasant, painful, happy, sad. They're all boundaries. Limitations, we put it on the unlimited. The word. Doesn't mean to say, you won't use words, you'll understand words and use them.

Yeah. But words won't use you. You won't do the poor little me, this is no good, this is a word, you put them on yourself, and limiting factors. They won't bother to be there. Don't have to beat yourself up with the word. You have a lot of ways to actually coach people to bring up anything that stands in a way back to nothing. If you think you're the body, you investigate the body. You think you're the mind, you investigate the mind, until you're left with nothing. Yeah. Or story, problem, situation. They're all just semi-contraction that is believed in. Because it is believed, it's flooded with that attention or life essence.

Yeah. It seems real. And the other thing, we take that word, make it something that it's not really. When we say nothing, we think it's just emptiness. But it's no thing. Broken down, no thing. And all this manifestation, everything in it are things. Everything. They're all things. You, me, the mind, everything, all things. And all appearing in that space like emptiness, the screen, can something come from nothing? Well, it can't. So all these things, which we label as things, which we take to be real, are no thing. Also, you, me, and everything else, are no thing. That's all the manifestation is made up of, things.

So it's not jolts of vacuum, or void, or anything. It's just, all appearances, patterns, shapes, and forms. Phenomena. It's all phenomena. Appearing to me, see, something that's not real. And then you understand when they say there's no creator, no creation, and no creature. Think there's somebody that ever created this? What was, how did that creator come into being? What was it born out of? A worm, or an egg, or a hot pot, see, or something like that? How big would it be if it was a creator of the world? Nothing's been created. It all appears, plays around, and disappears again. Just like in the dream.

Just like at night. Things appear out of nowhere. The trees, buildings, people, everything just appears for a limited time, and then it just fades away. You wake up, where was it ever real? And how real it seems when you're dreaming. And these bodies, the animating intelligence that's gone through them seem very real. They seem, well that's the wondrous way that Shakti, that vibrating energy that vibrates within it, it's a fusion of that intelligence that can form all this manifestation in the wondrous, marvelous, and beautiful ways that it is. Given all the problems, I think the creator must have been a hot potato. I'll change the two things a bit.

Come on. Get you all together away from me. I'm afraid we'll have something to say about it. Of course, discussions amongst yourselves, what's wrong with right now? Nobody's got anything to discuss I'm saying. What are you doing there? Meditating with your eyes wide shut. Meditating with the eyes wide shut. Speak up Summer. Staying as non-conceptual awareness. Yeah. It's muted her. I don't have anything to say. Yeah, you can seemingly do that for a while, but then after a while the words will flow again. You're just too good. You answer all the questions before they're being asked. Well, that's it. I just have no questions. Actually, it's really amazing to be able to sit around when you don't feel awkward and there's no conversation going on.

It's a great space. So you don't have to discard the world and everything. You just see the beauty of it all and the wonderment of it all and the way it can fashion, shape and form. And the way it's still changing and evolving in certain ways. I must have cared as well to get some ice before. He gets up there, he's going to play with us. That's what his eyes are. You want to wreck something, don't you? Not happy with just sitting around here, you want to pull something apart. What a story you're having about poor innocent cats. You're good. I know. Humans flash the mental image of doing that into my head.

Yes, so that's the type of living we are after. Totally effortless living. Whatever attracts its attention, it's fully with it. 100%. It doesn't have a concept about tomorrow. And it doesn't have a concept about tomorrow. And it doesn't have a concept about tomorrow. It doesn't have a sense of inferiority or anything. It's built on reactions to the humans coming up behind it though. As much as you're coming up behind it. And totally spontaneous also. Discussions, yeah. Responses as you know. It separates the natural response being the natural reaction being. It's due to time. One of the big problems is my mind. Whose mind? Is there such a thing as mind?

Can anyone show me a thing called mind? What do you call mind? When you look into it, it's all that mind is, is thought. What the thinking, we've got a group of thoughts together. We say, call it mind. So which particular thought are you? The basic primary thought is the thought I am. If you were the thought, you wouldn't be, you would be frightened of losing it. Because you'd lose the thought, that would be the end of you. But you can gladly give it up every night. When you go to sleep, you're glad to give that thought away. You still wake up in the morning.

And unless you start to dream, is there any thoughts going on while you're asleep? Dream starts and that's more thoughts more. But what substance does this thing called mind got? It hasn't got any substance. Can't stand on its own. There's no life essence functioning through the body. How many thoughts is it going to cause? And we think this mind is a wonderful thing. That causes all our problems. And all the mind is, as I say, is a mind. And the mind is, as I say, like evanescent ripples on the space of the pure stillness, the basic stillness of the screen. Evanescent ripples. Like the ocean still, the ripple comes upon it.

It becomes a wave, it can become a big billow, it can become a huge storm, or God knows what. And it started off with a little ripple. Sea thoughts are the same way. They come up on that stillness. Where are yesterday's thoughts now? The same thoughts still there? They're not, they're gone. Disappeared back into the stillness. And when you hear a statement like, let the thoughts ride on the breath, you start to see it differently. And just let the thoughts go out of your breath. Breathe out your thought right now, or whatever word it is or concept's there. And it's gone. Do you think you'll ever get the same breath back in?

You won't. It's always a fresh and new breath. So, when you breathe the thought out, it'll be a fresh and new thought you breathe in. Let the thoughts ride on it. So thought is nothing but word, idea. So when you breathe in, breathe in, don't you say, I am inspiring. When I'm breathing out, I'm expiring. So, and you hear so many of the scientists and physicists say, I went to sleep at night and didn't know if I could put all the thing aside. And a great inspiration came upon me. Not realising it, but they know it came in with some breath they brought in. Because all those thoughts you breathe out there are in that space.

Resolved into the space. Every fresh and new thought is, it's all been thought before. Nothing new about it. And it naturally resolves a lot of the problems if you're not trying to think your way through them. Some things you might seemingly think your way through them. If those thoughts weren't coming up, what could you think through them? Again using that word mind. Somebody comes along and says, can I do this and do that? If you say, I don't mind, what have you done? You couldn't care less about it, you let it happen. Well at the same time you say, I do mind. You're going to get up in arms and argue and do everything to stop it.

What have you thought of this time here? Pesto. Can you get a bit of paper of meditation off the desk? There's all sorts of different takes on meditation. I think this one, away, away, away, suited me the best. He says, the practice of meditation is represented by the three famous monkeys. You know the three famous, hear no evil, see no evil, and speak no evil. Who cover their eyes, ears, and mouth. To avoid the phenomenal world. The practice of non-meditation is ceasing to be, is ceasing the seer, hearer, or speaker. While eyes, ears, and mouth are fulfilling their function in daily life. So you're still seeing and speaking and hearing, but fulfilling their function.

There's no seer, no one taking to live around them. It's very interesting you say that because, you know, I spent years meditating, decades meditating. See in the last year, it feels better to meditate with my eyes open. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Just sit and just... I did meditation for many years too, and it's all f***ing everywhere. Why? Exactly. Maybe I've been looking in the wrong direction. And then that dawns on you, well what direction can I look? Well every direction you look in, it's always in the mind. And you realise, it's always in the mind, and you won't find it, you'll never find the answer in the mind.

What direction do you look in? You're not looking in the mind. Meditation is what's going down when you're not in a mass of distraction. So there's, you know, it might be moment to moment, it might be chance, whatever, but there's a waking up to what's going on, or not going. It might be to meet in and out, in and out, like sort of like, go on, but yeah, just not watching the room, you're not reading the book, you're not, you know. You're just sitting there. You could be walking, you could be sitting, sometimes maybe a little work, and there's an awareness of stuff happening. Computer being looked at, even the words being seen.

Here's the best place, it's probably why I keep coming, I guess. I don't do that, I don't really listen. You can sit and let it happen to myself, you know, just naturally fall into it, without trying it, what they call an undistracted non-meditation. If you're distracted, it's not the right thing, so if you're undistracted, meditation distracts you, you know. I sit to do it though, like as a thing, just never happened. Yeah, it's too much effort. I did a portion of it then, I managed to do it, so I could do it lying horizontally in bed. It just is fine, just sitting up and so, and then I lost interest after a week or so.

I've realised that there's no need for meditation at all, I'm a, I've always, and I still do it every day. I'm a, I'm a, I'm a, I'm a, I'm a, I'm a, I'm a, I'm a, I'm a, I'm a, I'm a, I'm a, I'm a, I'm a, I'm a, I'm a, I'm a, I'm a, I'm a, I'm a, I'm a, I'm a, I'm a, I'm a, I'm a, I'm a. Um, but I don't do, there's no object, I just sit and I used to do the portion, but now I just sit, close my eyes, and whatever. Right. But I've really realised that, that there's absolutely no need, but like I said to Katarina once, I said who am I to tell anyone that not to do it, because how do I know that the years of meditating has important, I don't know, So, but it's different.

It's just sick. It's searching basically meditating. I don't agree. But people search, that's why they meditate. You're looking for something. Yeah, I don't know. That's just nice to hear. That's good, isn't it? My experience is exactly the same as Moira's. I've just realised it doesn't get you anywhere, but I do it anyway. You sort of like it, like going for a walk. Well, it's center for you and it makes you feel better. It puts your blood pressure down. That's a good reason. But it's not going to make me white. There's meditation as search and there's meditation as being. I'm still planning to get into a 10 day retreat.

That's how it's good, doesn't it? Because why not? I can sit here silent. I don't have to listen to anybody. I'm just talking. I'm just feeling all the way. It's great. I don't listen to anybody. That's why not. I've never meditated as a searcher. I've never been a seeker. I've never had any plans coming up in my head to go and do something for some reason. It's a burden being a seeker. Yeah, I imagine. Oh, it's fun. It's fun. It's not an anxiety. It is. It is. I don't even know why. It's normal. It's normal. It's normal. I don't have any experience. Anything that takes effort.

All I've done is over on. You're going for nowhere. You just go always. But I don't know. It is very similar to this. What's that called? What was the framework? There's no framework. There's a schedule. Nine days. And he just says, don't. Just do whatever you want. Turn your alarm off. And you just follow your own schedule. He said don't worry you'll be there at breakfast. So have you been on one of those before? Yeah, lights. Have you done that one in Dirt? Yeah, yeah, lights. Oh, but I like, that's just I guess my condition. What sort of group? Is it a group? Yeah, it's a bit easier than some.

Oh, here it said it's just two boot campers. Yeah, yeah, now this one is not boot campers is it? No. Yeah. Oh, so you've done it over there. Yeah. Okay. And is it hard to get to? Yeah, it is. You've got to do this protocol to get in. Oh. So there's no need for meditation. Yeah, the best description I ever heard of the meditation, the question about the meditation was I think it was Jet Mankana who said, it is harmless, essentially harmless because yeah, even if you are a seeker and you think it will get you somewhere, it will do you something, whether you sit and think that or whether you walk and think that or whether you drink beer and think that, it's not going to happen.

The worst thing is you're not going to harm anyone, you're not going to get drunk. But are you going to get something? No. The individual, the person, regardless, they can walk on their eyelashes, they can travel to the moon, they can sit in the meditation, they can shit themselves, they will never ever get anything because the individual is the obstruction. Enlightenment is when the individual is not. But that happens. Yes. Individual cannot do anything. And then where there is emptiness, there's absolutely nothing. And that nothing is never obscured by the individual, only seemingly so. Yeah. So there is no enlightenment per se to be at peace.

No. Because it is always there. Yeah, absolutely. And that's what the Buddhists get wrong. It's an esoteric thing. They don't introduce that soon enough, do they? I don't know. No one talks about it. There's this exotic thing that you might get after a thousand lifetimes. It's ridiculous. I just didn't learn anything from the passion. This pattern here, apart from the fact that some people said go and I didn't know I was there, this pattern didn't get what I wanted. This pattern didn't get what they were even offering. So I was just scanning for stuff. I didn't even know why or what. There was no broadening out to it.

But coming here, this pattern gets these pointers, you know. It gets what's going on here. It doesn't get much of an emotional body, but it just works much better. So I guess that's why it's still here. But had I come here ten years ago, which I wouldn't have, I would just not get anything. No. So perhaps I just had to... Yeah, yeah, body and stuff. But meditation has fantastic side effects. Like even the ability to focus the mind is a wonderful side effect. It doesn't have anything to do with realization. But being able to focus the mind or to still the mind, being aware of the content of the mind, putting attention on the body like vipassana or breathing, the attention rests back and it heals the body as a byproduct.

It has nothing to do with realization. But it's a fantastic skill. It may, I don't know for sure, but I haven't really looked into it, but it may have a lot to do with environment triggering and clouds, you know, that just obscure space. For me, like, it's really damn obvious that this body reacts and the whole setup just goes out of life, goes out of the moment and enjoyment. And I was really noticing that on Saturday, you know, someone pointed out to me the cycle of like tension, release, and then just sitting in it. And something in that I just actually started to enjoy some moments and then just see the whole body trigger into like cutting off from life and not enjoying.

The enjoyment factor's just gone. I could see with enough clarity that it was happening and then come back and I could actually feel this enjoyment. And this enjoyment's still not very clear, but it is. It was like an experience that I don't think is often felt here much. And then just this, oh, how persistent. Every little thing was triggering out into this. Tense, non-being in the other aspects of, yeah, things have just been cut out. And the joy is ended every time. Another thing that not necessarily meditation, but generally just being aware of the content of awareness that brings us a byproduct is being able to see where your attention is going.

Like knowing your own pattern. And because when you see where the attention is trying to be traveling, what actually grasps you, what distracts you, then you can, the next point you're going to be aware of this sense of discontentment, of this resistance. And Bob boils it all down. The whole, there's nothing wrong if there is no resistance and no discontentment or sense of void or unworthiness. The problem starts only when we start relating to ourselves and I have the idea that this is wrong. As it is, it's no good. It has to change. And I will distract myself and go into some conceptual future or conceptual problems.

And that's when it starts being, when the suffering surfaces. So what do you do in time to resist? Well, you recognize resistance. You can't even stop it because you're not... So just be with it. Yeah. It's more obvious. Yeah. So once you, and this is what meditation, the skill of actually being mindful and being vigilant of where the attention is going, it actually helps to recognize the subtlety of resistance. And you can't stop it because there's no you to stop it really. When it shows up, you just see, ah, okay, there you are, the resistance. Or when you conceptually run away to a story instead of being utterly awake, eyes, ears, everything open and just completely savoring the moment as it is.

When this one is not happening because I'm thinking about tomorrow or yesterday, that's again, this is subtle resistance. Because if that moment with the content of seeing, hearing, tasting, touching, smelling was so intense and so lively and so juicy that I wouldn't ever want anything else, why would I think about some other stuff? So this, even that is a subtle form of resistance. So being able to sense that resistance. When I'm dissatisfied, when I'm discontented, this moment as it is, is not ideal, could have been better. So I'll go and entertain myself with some nice sort of a distraction, nice little story in the head.

Being able to actually face this resistance, recognize this little resistance and just smile at them. Ah, okay, that's a habit. It's nothing wrong, it's just a little habit. Habit that we gained throughout life. And recognizing that habit and not touching it, leaving it, unaltered, unmodified, uncorrected, not even trying to change it. Someone's irritating you. Yeah, exactly. Oh, I'm getting irritated. Wow, exciting, interesting. Bob sometimes irritates me, I sometimes irritate him. Doesn't usually last longer than five minutes and then we laugh. And we call it a sweet disruption. But what if you are fundamentally unworthy? If I'm what? Unworthy. What if you are fundamentally unworthy? Oh boy, I believed it most of my life.

This was my absolute certainty. I was 100% certain that I'm unworthy, unlovable, undeserving. And I had to live my life pretending that I'm okay. Putting in people's false smiles because they would reject me. Because obviously everybody knows what I know. I'm unworthy, I'm nothing, I'm horrible. Has it still come up? No. Meditation is supposed to still the mind with it, aren't you? What happens if you ask yourself the question right now, what's wrong with right now if I don't think about it? Pause the thought, where's the mind then? Isn't it still? It's not even there. And where does the next thought appear? If you were that thought and thought stopped, it would be, where's the finish?

It's not. Because you're still breathing, your heart's still beating, your ear and fingernails still playing, everything's still going on, but thought has stopped for a moment. So the next thought comes up, you know? So it's not a matter, very simple, to still the mind without sitting here and sitting there. What? Just pause the thought. I guess the fundamental underlying driving force of all meditation is that right now it's not. It's right or there's something wrong. Yes. And that's the ego. That's the conceptual image. I know better than God how this moment should look like, and I am the judge of this one, and this is no good, and I have to fix it.

I. On the other hand, you might know better. But sometimes you're told that by a guru, that you purify the body and then you become something more. And there's nothing wrong. teaches you skills it does yeah i've been meditating for many years and particularly that one about following where the attention is going or really being aware of the space around me above me and beneath me just really it takes you a little bit it's still kind of self-centered it's still all about me but it's in a way that kind of shifts you a little bit more into that you're not limited anymore you're not a person anymore now i'm the space of my gaze everything that is within the space of seeing that's what i am i agree it does provide a lot of benefits but often it's taught in a way where there's there's something at the end that's becoming light and it's still being taught that way and that is also and there is place for that too because this is how the intelligence of life how intelligence energy is is funny it's actually really the way to see the reality in which everything is in place and nothing is wrong anymore i've been told that too that if i will meditate for long enough persistently enough i will eventually be able to see through later on as i was attracted to seeing through i was told that when i meditate long enough there won't be any need to see through but on the beginning of the path it probably has been a little bit more of a process of seeing through and i think that's a very important thing to do and i think that's a very important thing to do and i think that's a very important thing to do and i think that's a very important thing to do and that's been communicated but i couldn't communicated but i couldn't communicated but i couldn't hear it yeah i think that's really true hear it yeah i think that's really true hear it yeah i think that's really true that's very true because you only hear that's very true because you only hear that's very true because you only hear what you can hear at the moment what you can hear at the moment what you can hear at the moment i'd like to say a few things about i'd like to say a few things about i'd like to say a few things about meditation and for decades meditation and for decades meditation and for decades um there are many many areas waiting for um there are many many areas waiting for um there are many many areas waiting for them them them and if you're praying what are you doing you're praying, if you're counting beads, you're counting beads.

If you're... That's right, mantra meditation also. If you're saying a mantra, what are you doing except saying a mantra? So, the best meditation technique is the one that actually disintegrates, totally disappears and leaves you in non-conceptual awareness. If you didn't understand that when you started, then you will forever think that when you do go to a state of non-conceptual awareness, where there's just no I, no thought, and you all know what I'm talking about because you have those states even when you're not meditating, so I'm not saying it's necessary, but it's a purposeful exercise to head or to create, to... end up in the state of non-conceptual awareness, which if you've done a lot of meditation, then you know that that's where you end up.

And then all of a sudden, you've been meditating for 40 minutes, and you go look at your clock and, well, thought appears, or the I makes an announcement. But the main thing is that it... The technique should disintegrate. If it doesn't disintegrate, then all you're doing is just... praying or counting beads or saying mantras. So the... You said, Moira, it leaves you in that non-conceptual space. And it does, without a doubt. But I really never realized that while I was doing it. I always thought it was going to be kundalini, and when is Jesus going to appear, and whatever. But now reflecting on all the time, the years that I've meditated, and all the things that I've done, it results in a state of non-conceptual awareness.

And then, there is the proof of what Bob's talking about. There is... Your essential being is before experience. I could say that. It's before experience. You're just absolutely nothing that the mind can grasp. So if you can get to that... That's the key. And then, you can get to that position in meditating. And there's just no doubt in my mind that there are ways to, you know, so to speak, to realize the truth. This is... What's this called, Bob? Nani or nana or whatever? This is a path we examine, we investigate. Of understanding, yes. Of understanding. But there are other paths too, which shouldn't be...

There are other paths also in the meditation, because this is really what was working big time for me. And it is called devotion. Like, if you meditate, because now you want to do something, you want to do anything, you want to do everything for that so-called realization. And now you go to the guru and he tells you, well, but you can't do anything. You can only get out of the way and stop disturbing. Yes, but you know, all my heart is in it. I want to do... I must do something. Okay, then sit and do nothing. And this is the purpose of meditation. In Zen they call it shikantazas, just sitting.

You're just sitting and making yourself available. No activity whatsoever. Because what the individual can do for this... Individual is a fiction. It can do nothing. So it is told, okay, just sit. Pretend you're not there. Just be like a, you know, like a child that wants to help mother with cooking. And of course it's going to make all the mess, it's going to put everything aside and... Gosh, what the... How can the child help? Sit in a corner and watch. Do nothing. So for me it was the act of devotion. The guru told me, sit and do nothing. Just make yourself empty, available. That's all you can do.

And I was so much in love with the idea. As a seeker, that was still me, but that me was wanting to do anything. That me was ready to die for it. And that me was, okay, should I sit for how long? You tell me, I'll sit for how long? I'll sit for how long? I'll sit for how long? I'll do anything. And I did it. There's parallels. There's parallels with, you know, the systems. Like this one is of understanding, where you are given hints or pointing. Be earnest. Do the investigation. I can't take you there. Do it yourself. In the same way that karma yoga, or you are just really, told how to dive.

You just fall forward. And the rest happens spontaneously. It should never be effort. Because if there's effort, then there's an I. The only good meditation is, technique is, if it disintegrates. And the instruction has to be very precise and very good. And done repeatedly. So you can. So it is effortless. But it's not. Just like, the pointing here is the same as another teacher saying, just fall and you'll start to dive. Gravity will take over. Just do this. Just like Nisargadatta and Bob said. Just a little hint towards realising non-conceptual awareness. I mean the proof of the pudding is in eating it. And if you've experienced that, a lot of people say, I can't meditate.

I can't do anything. I can't meditate. My mind's too busy. It's essentially transcending the mind. Going beyond the mind. Because then you end up with what Bob points to, the peace beyond understanding. If this is an understanding in the head, then... Question. Trappist monk, around 1970 in Boston, studied the 13th century book, The Cloud of Unknowing. He concluded that actually there is a non-dual form of meditation which Christianity entirely missed. And he introduced what's called Centering Prayer. Which is kind of interesting. It's basically sitting in silence and as soon as a thought comes up, you let it go. You get back to the silence. That's the totality of it.

Beautiful. Yeah, it is. Julia has this idea of Sedona Method. It's basically whatever shows up on the screen of awareness, you let it go until you're left with nothing. Investigation is another way of doing the same. Investigation just prevents it from coming back. You know what could also be a problem? When you meditate for a long time, you use mantra or whatever and you transcend and you experience all this unboundedness. But you never actually put it all together. You don't sort of... There's not that realization that that's me. Not just individual, but... So you keep going around in a circle and after a while it sort of starts to become stale because...

And you as a person, you can't reason it out. It either happens or it doesn't. A lot of Buddhist teachers have said what you've said is completely wrong. It's because there's not someone who's actually pointed it out. That's exactly what I did. I typed up, where's my bloody enlightenment? I've been doing it for 40 bloody years. What's going on? I didn't understand that the result was actually achieved. It was actually achieved. Many, many, many times a long time ago. And then the first time I came to see Bob, I was looking at Google results. Yeah, I got them too. And there he was in my backyard.

I lived up in the hills in the middle, just around the corner. Most of them point out that there's a path to be on and a destination. Where does that path start? And you pinpoint a time and you say, can you start this? And where's the destination? No path. No destination. Where does that lead you? Anyone there that can get anywhere? Is there anyone who is not present and aware right now? So you're already that. What's all the point of looking on paths and destinations and meditation or anything else? Starts from the fact you already are that. Why are we fearful of doing that? Simple.

It seems too simple. You can only hear it when you can hear it. It's like the story, Bob, you told us about Muktananda in the ashram. He was telling the story about some other students of other ashrams and it was supposed to be a joke. And Bob said when he came back from Nisargadatta he understood, oh my God, it was about all of us. The student comes and asks the guru to teach him. And guru tells, yo, thou art that. And the guy says, ah, yeah, he's making fun of me. And he goes down the road to another guru and another guru and he's telling him, you know, I've done a lot already, this is wrong.

I've traveled the world, I came from the other side of the world and he just dismissed me, made fun of me. And then he says, okay, I get it. He put him to work for 12 years shoveling cow shit. And after 12 years he says, if you will be faithfully serving me I'll tell you the truth. And then he told him the same thing, of course. After 12 years of shoveling cow shit. Don't hurt that. And he was ready to hear it. So, you Bob said also, they told you before, thou art that. But you couldn't hear it. It's like Nisargadatta is talking, it's the fruit has to ripen on its own.

Nobody can do anything to accelerate it. No investigation, no amount of gurus, videos, books, meditations, nothing. That's absolutely true. Because it comes when it comes and there's no control. An individual is a fiction. How can an individual control it? How can an individual do it? Recognise that and yeah. Home already. Yeah, that would be nice. Yeah, I've sort of got a question, because for me it doesn't feel like I'm doing it. It's just whatever's happening is happening. But, you know, and then going into the head happens too a lot. And I just wonder whether it's got any tips, because there just seems to be an urge to do it in everyday life.

There doesn't seem to be any move to find the money to go to retreat or do any of that stuff. I wonder if there's maybe some block that's kind of making it a bit harder or anyone's got, I mean, just in case anyone's got some insight, because insights generally do shift blocks for me and there's more space. You don't have to do that. It doesn't feel like that. The basis is it doesn't feel like I'm doing anything. But the thing I wonder. Yeah, and I don't think it's imperfect. But blocks generally, given that, generally when the light shines on a bit of a block, it does tend to open up more space.

So given that, does anyone have any kind of tips that might fall or might not? You know, they don't have to. Yeah, for me, the devotion, you know. If you really, if your heart is really there, if that's important and if that's a priority, then the recognition out of that feeling will come spontaneously. And it's already happening to you. The recognition is spontaneously happening. Yeah, and that's probably underscotten. Yeah, and now reward yourself. Every time the recognition happens, oh, thank you. So then now you're actually anchoring a positive habit in the mind and you will be wanting more of the reward because what we usually do when the recognition happens, oh shit, I was asleep for a couple of hours.

I was gone in the store. It's stupid me. That is the counterproductive because that actually anchors the habit of not waking up. Of not recognizing. Because if recognition is connected with the pain of self, you know, of self-judgment, then naturally it will lessen. Isn't that interesting because my landlady was saying the same thing. She doesn't get the no self thing really but she was saying the same thing last night. And one of the things that was always made the most sense to me was when Bob says take those moments when you did notice and appreciate them for what they are. Because for me that was the only way in really.

Absolutely. And the way that your landlady put it has been more, I mean I've never been a seeker for the good feeling so in some ways it doesn't make sense but she reworded it to make it appear some more times today kind of like you're doing. See the good feeling is closer to the state of nothing is wrong anymore. Than the than suffering. Yeah. The Kali Ani speaks of gratefulness. I grate fullness. That's the way. Gratefulness. I was rushing to the station and I just missed the train pulled out and there's something about gratefulness so I had to say I'm grateful and thank you and it made me laugh a bit.

Then this old bloke came along a few minutes later who lives around the corner from me and we got chatting and you know we were going around to visit him and they had a coffee. It was an old violinist. Yeah. And I was just I'm really grateful. Yeah. Okay. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Come. Just get the same thing.