Non duality with Bob Adamson - spiel and discussion

We are friends of mine, we are into amateur radio. We are ready to start, we already live on Facebook. Sorry. Live on Facebook? There are few people in Europe that are watching us, usually. I saw you chatting with me the other night, John. You saw the whole world saw you. I know you all know each other. No, the whole world saw you. Yeah, say your names. Cole. John. Tony. Bill. Tony. Terry. Robin. Kat. And you've all been here before? No, this is new. So we'll be preaching to the choir because a lot of you have a pretty good understanding of it, so we're going over stuff, old stuff, putting it in a different way.

Others who mightn't have got any idea what it's about, we talk about it, it's all our beliefs and they're based upon a higher power. So we're going to do it. And it's the same power which we'd like to call God or some different power other than ourselves and that's steeped in us, even though it says in the Bible, thou shalt not make unto thyself any graven images. So we carve images out of stone and wood and put all sorts of eyes and all sorts of beliefs we put on people, the wood and the stone and all those things. And we graven grave images in our head.

ideas and images of what we believe this is. But have a look at this. Listen to this. And this is nothing new either. It's been around for thousands of years. It's been one of the most... Hi, Bob. How are you doing? Good to see you. Been read by many and pointed out by many. But it's been... The meaning has been ignored by many. It starts off, the universe was neither born nor maintained nor dissolved. Now, born, maintained, that's what Brahma, Vishnu and Shiva is. Brahma, the creator, Vishnu, the maintainer, and Shiva, the dissolver. That's a different term. That's where this universe has come. Those three so-called idols in Hinduism.

But it was neither created nor dissolved nor dissolved. There was no creation. No creation. No creation. No creation. No creation. No creator and no creature. Have a look at all the manifestations. You and I and everything else are creatures appearing in the so-called creation. It's a wondrous, an amazing creation. The basic screen which it's all appearing on, pure being, awareness, stillness. That's existence, consciousness. It's being. Anyone not being, anyone who is not aware, being. And what's that being awareness? It's based on the basic stillness behind all the signs. You can recognize that stillness anytime. It's devoid of all the moving shadow pictures of name and form.

And that's all this manifestation. Moving shadow pictures of name and form. And you go along on a dark night and you walk past many lampposts and you see a movement behind you or appears to be a movement. You're not knowing what it is. You'll start moving faster because you think someone's there. Someone's following you. You go a little bit further, you might start running. Eventually we exhaust you and look at it. See, it's only a shadow. When was it ever real? Was it anything that could have ever harmed you? But what concepts did we take of it? And what stories and things did we make of it?

So you see, that's all this manifestation. And that means you, me, and everything else that's appearing in it are nothing but shadow pictures. We are shadow pictures. I'm appearing on that basic screen. So what is it all based on? That basic screen which is stillness or silence or emptiness. Now, can you postulate or conceptualize or anything that didn't appear can appear outside of that emptiness or basic screen? Everything is appearing in it. The shadow pictures are appearing in it. But where is the creator? Is there any creator that's forming that picture or is it just a shadow? Or is it just a shadow? Or is it just a shadow?

Or is it just a shadow? just a movement in that stillness, a seeming, a somewhat of a movement, what they call it, not even a movement, on that basic scale. It's a seeming movement we've taken to be real and continue to believe in it. And so we've taken on these patterns, shapes and forms we are forming as, instead of looking into their reality, we've taken it to be real and trying to find something that believed in higher power, God, or some higher power or bigger power that we're going to get to that will enlighten us or make us see the truth or the reality. But have a look at that.

And it tells you again in the scriptures, in the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God and the Word was God. And realise what's that saying. It's saying that the Word, God, is God. Not that there is anything other side, no creation or any big creature. And if you believe there's a God, when did it begin? What womb was it formed in? Everything comes from the womb or an egg or something. What egg was it contained in? Moisture or anything? What ever could have contained this earth of a so-called God? It had to be created and formed. And if there was no creator, no creation, how could there be anything?

So what is this Word? And haven't we taken the Word to be real? And yet the religions will tell you, the scriptures will tell you. And the Jews will say, hear over Israel, the Lord thy God is one God, there is nothing other. It's only a Word and there is nothing other than that. Muslims say there is no God but God. Allah is his name, another word, another label. Christianity says it's omnipresence, omnipresence, omniscience. We call that hell, a great creator. The Buddhists will say, the great perfection is non-conceptual awareness. We've taken on this idea because we're told there is a thing called God. But isn't it pointed out that there is no creator, no creation, no creature, but there is there basic stillness, basic awareness, stillness.

Anyone who is not aware or existing right now, isn't there awareness of what is behind that thinking film? Isn't there stillness behind it? There isn't any. There is a soul. There is no soul at all, without any shadow pictures of name and form. There is a soul, eternal existence. S O L E, not S O U L. People have taken belief in the idea of a soul, but has anyone ever found a soul? Have the doctors and all the other men and women ever cut out a soul? Or found anything they can of a soul? But the meaning is S O L E. existence that is patterning, shaping, forming and appearing as everything.

If it's the one, can you, what you call you, be anything other than that one? When you say I, what does that symbolise? It doesn't symbolise the figure one, I, it says I am. Am is a part of the verb to be, it points out to your existence, I am that, I am this. So we miss the point. We take on the belief that we are a separate entity, an individual, a person. Investigate that. Where they tell us again, in Hinduism, not only particularly in Hinduism, all the great traditions will point to it in one way or another. In Hinduism they point to Sat Chit Ananda, being, knowing and loving the being.

Existence, consciousness. And the other two factors are Nama, Rupa. Name and form. And what is all this manifestation? Haven't you got names and forms and patterns appearing on? Names and forms for everything? Labels? Particular manifestation as it appears. Even yourself. They put this name and form, I'm Bob, I'm an Australian, I'm a human being. But name and form they'll tell you is illusion. It has no substance, it's just illusion. It's not a presence or any independent nature. It's just this shadow picture, a vibrating pattern on the screen of that stillness that we've taken to be real. And it seems so. You can't deny it. It seems so substantial and real.

Investigating it, when you see what is being pointed out, that it has no substance or any independent nature. We haven't formed any ego. And what we believe there is such a thing as an I am that egoic, self-centred person and recognise that as the cause of all my psychological suffering. Have a look and see. Is there such a thing as an ego? We've been led to believe it, we've taken on the idea and constantly reinforce it so it's seemingly solid. It's seemingly real, it's seemingly something that's there. Can you give it any substance or any form when you investigate it? What substance has a thought got?

What shape and form has a thought got? How long does a thought last? Doesn't it come and go? What are thoughts? As again it tells you, some may argue, and you possibly are if you're one of us, that this universe of duality, multiple existences, you can't deny that, it's a very dualistic manifestation full of multiple existences, you, me and everybody else, is a factual second reality. A factual second reality and we've taken to believe it is. Clearly seen by the senses, operated by the mind. Now isn't that so? You sense something and don't you operate it by the mind? But then, but then, come back to then, are the senses anything apart from the mind?

Well are they? Have you got a sense of fear or anxiety or stress or guilt or shame? Only in these senses, if it wasn't recognised or stated by the mind, you can't see it. The mind is a thing we call mind. Can they function without the support of the mind, in which they are embedded? All these senses and everything else are embedded in this thought structure of the mind. But then again, have a look at that. What is this mind? Except a bundle of thoughts. Have a look at that and see if that's real. Is there any such thing as mind if you're not thinking?

Without a thought, what can you say is mind? Show me a mind if you believe there's a mind. What substance of solidity has a mind got? I can't grasp anything when I look into it. Can you? Test it out for yourself. Don't take my word for it, a lot of you won't. A lot of you will walk out of here and say that's a lot of crap. That's not going to hurt me. Or any of the others that are recognising and realising down through there. Going a merry way. Stay embedded in this concept. What are thoughts except evanescent ripples in the still limitless ocean of pure being, being, awareness, stillness.

Because there's still limited ocean. And look at the ocean. We'll take a metaphor of the ocean. And you look at the ocean and you'll see it's never ever changing. The ripples are appearing on the waves and everything. It's ever constantly changing. But it's never changing. Seemingly ever changing but it's still only and ever the ocean. And it's never changed from that aspect. Even though the ripples, shapes and forms and waves and everything else appear in it. Except evanescent ripples in the still limitless ocean of pure awareness self. Which is the soul. S-O-L-E. The soul existence. Without a second my teeth are loose and they're flopping around and I'm not sweating.

That's the way it's expressed and I couldn't give a shit. Listen to me all you want. So yeah. But the soul existence. It's not me running away from it. Never moved away from that soul existence. Not a personal existence. Any person that's the one. Take that stance as I say. Abide as that. All this manifestation and put it up and sat, chatted and as that. That's all that. That is what it is. What is. What is is that. That is the fear. That is the anxiety. That is the world. That is the thought. Isn't that so? When you talk about things? Yeah. That is all it is.

That is the carpet. That is the chair. But what do we put on it? Names and forms and labels. Words. We've taken to be real. And have a look at the word. Is the word the real? Is the word the thing? And you hear that the word is not the real. The word is not the thing. And have a look at it. See experience and express it. Is the word water? Water. Well grab a. Grab a. Grab a. Grab a. Grab a. Grab a. Grab a. Grab a. Grab a. Grab a. Grab a. Grab a. Grab a. Grab a. Let that slide. The word. Put it to your mouth and see if you can drink it.

See if you can wash in that word. See if you can swim in the word and do you realize it's not the thing. It's torn. Does the word fire burn your mouth? The word fire doesn't burn my mouth. I can't cook with the word fire. I can't heat myself with it. The word fire is not the fire. Look at all you words and see if the word is not the thing. But see what I've taken on with all these words. And I believe in the words. myself up with the word something that is not the thing taken it to be real and beat myself instead of recognize that the word the word person is not what I am the word individual person is not and can I tell myself what that being is pure being that's words I can't say what it is but can I negate that what I call label beings can I say I am NOT I can't so whether I'm speaking the word or not speaking the word the beingness what we call the beings the knowingness and the stillness is still there being described with words which are not the thing that is what we point to and that is what you are that is what you've always been and will ever be and what do they tell you next you say in a recognition of that abide as that don't continue to abide as this person that if I do this mantra if I go to this set saying if I read this book where I believe in this and believe that I will become the reality because becoming is a word and becoming is a word that implies a future time and the word time is a concept also when you investigate that you'll see there's no such thing as time how would you try and become as much as you like start from the fact that I am already that we've taken on these belief from previous our parents at all and all the time we've had those beliefs we're all really that and Kenyananja that there is only one other dot existing right there or Des harvest all the time we've had those beliefs we're already that can you negate it there is anyone who is not existing right now?

Was there anyone who was unaware right now? Was there anyone who was not happy right now? No. They're basic facts that I'm absolutely certain of. And I don't need the words to believe it. It is there whether I'm saying the words or not. And where could these words come from? I'm saying I or me, but where could they come from? If that life, what we call life, which is another label, wasn't beating the heart, growing in the hair and the fingernails, digesting the food, replacing cells in your body, taking the breath, doing all these things, that same intelligence existence which is patently shaping the form of the nama rupa, the made, the names and forms.

But see it as it is, devoid of all these names and forms. Know yourself as that. Be that. Abide as that. See if you can get away from it. See if in reality you ever have been away from it. Even though I'm saying this and that. There was never a time when I wasn't existing. I can go back into memories and say there was a time when I wasn't there. But what is time if you realise it's just a word? It's a concept. Have a look at that. See if there's a past if we don't think about it. And you say, well, there's a past in the past.

Well, try and live a moment ago. Prove to yourself if there's a past. Can I live a moment ago? Can I live yesterday? Can I live last week? But I can recall it. Can I live a moment in the future? We say as we think of it, there's a future tomorrow. But you can't live a moment in the future. You can recall it. But the actuality and recollection of it is right in this moment. So when you look at it, the actuality is you've never moved away from this, what we call a moment. It's not even that. This immediacy, this actuality is ever fresh. It's ever present.

And it's ever aware. Divorce yourself from that if you can, which we continually do. Try and remain it. The idea, I will become. I'll get there somewhere. I'm pretty close to it now. It's just a matter of what they call in Buddhism cognising emptiness. The satchitananda, the existence of the being known as the being, is that stillness. The basic screen of being aware in a stillness. And we try to grasp it with a concept. Not seeing it as it is. And we get lost in the conceptualising of it. But see it as it is. In that stillness that's there right now. Aren't thoughts appearing? And there might be all sorts of things.

There might be a stillness seen as a stillness. There might be saying he's an arsehole. He's full of shit. He's telling me bullshit. Or it's good stuff. He's saying anything. But is anything taking place outside that basic being awareness stillness? And can you negate it? Can anyone negate it in this room and say I am not? How could you say I am a not if it wasn't for the actual functioning of that life essence? It's bringing up that thought. It's causing or making that thought to happen. Thought, a vibration of energy. Or I call it, and have called it for years, intelligence energy. I'm not talking about your intellects.

There can be different intellects in this room. And there is. There's all sorts of intellects. Some quite superior, some not. But I'm talking about the same intelligence that's functioning. Manifesting and expressing as this universe. Forming the galaxies. Forming the planets, the stars. The seas, the earth. The universe. The universe. The universe. The universe. The seas, the earth, you, me. And everything in it implies it's suffused with an innate intelligence. We call it intelligence which is a label. And intelligence is an activity, a movement of knowing. Anybody who's not knowing right now. And you're knowing this, that, and everything else. But it's the basic knowliness which is all that's being.

The activity of knowing. The knowing is something that's happening right in the sub-medicine. Aren't you knowing that you are? Aren't you seeing, hearing, tasting, touching, smelling? All appearance in that knowingness, the activity of knowing. Any activity, any activity is a movement. You blink your eyes, that's a movement. Take a breath, that's a movement of energy. So it's that energy that's vibrating, a movement. All that knowing is taking place in that activity of knowing, intelligence energy. That is what you are. So there it is. That's your takes on that, what you've seen, and what you've seen in your investigation, what you've understood and grasped. Put it in your words, which might be different.

It can be expressed in many words. And you'll see down through the ages it has been. There's been many shadow pictures that have understood it. Like you and I. There's been many shadow pictures. There's been the Christ, the Buddha, this one, that one. Shadow pictures. But me, as a shadow picture, how can I tell any other shadow picture what to do? And you, as shadow pictures, how can you tell any other shadow picture? The shadow pictures down through the ages, how can they tell any other shadow pictures? But words have come out, and better come out. And they've been expressed, and there's been a cognising by the other soul-collabor, or a knowing by them.

They've been taken up, seen, and passed on. So the seeming shadow pictures, which can't do anything, the message is carried in what's been in the seeming word, and it goes on. That's why I say at the start, and I've said for many years, I can't teach you anything. I can't tell you anything. All I can do is point you toward, and ask you to look where I'm pointing to. And see for yourself. See for yourself. And nobody can ever do that to you. And the other way I've used, I'm not teaching you talking to anybody. I'm not talking to anybody. I'm not talking to any mind.

I'm talking to that I am that I am. To that sense of presence, to that knowingness. I am that I am. That means that I am that I am is what you are. You can say that. And know that I am. And knowing that. Just to this, and nothing else. If you take those two statements and apply them yourself, you might see what's been said in a slightly different way. Here you might not, but you might have a good understanding. You might need to. These things are coming up, seeming to here more clearer than they've come for years. Might be the end is getting near.

Who knows? Because there seems to be burst of that when people are coming to the end of their life. Expression. Drop the story. Huh? Drop the story. We want you around forever. Oh right. I don't want the story. This. I've stopped the story and I saw you was getting to it. No, no. Drop the story about being near to the end. Well, why not? The way patterns come, patterns go. You see that it's continued to happen. But right now it is the way it is. All the patterns have gone before. Some of them seem to have known more than others. I mean, sit up. As these raven images.

God, you see. They're not just to be worshipped. Gone to be taken place. But they're not. They're just vibrating pattern of energy. Nobody can tell you anything or teach you anything. Start from fact yourself that you are that. And you won't care whether you're listening to my story or not. And it doesn't matter that you're saying that. It doesn't matter that Katrina is saying, don't say that book. Yeah. Because it's all shadow pictures. It's all appearance. It's just appearance trying to tell you with an appearing mind that you have an appearing understanding. It doesn't matter. It doesn't matter. It doesn't matter. There, there, there. And doesn't.

And you see that word doesn't matter. What's the difference between spirit and matter? Spirit is the essence and matter is the seemingly congealed essence of seemingly solid. When it's become matter, it's become seemingly solid. And when you seem the experience of seemingly solidity can be broken down to subatomic particles into pure energy. There's nothing solid about any of the matter. Yeah. So matter has been, never been anything other than spirit. There's no division between the two. It's the one essence. It's like a computer caring if it's having trouble on some algorithm. It's like, yeah, it's upset. I have a question, Pong. What do you mean by reality in your definition?

Because some people might say that these appearances are also a type of reality that kind of congeal out of that greater reality. So they might have a hierarchy. But you say it's not reality. The reality is that which never changes. And that stillness and silence never changes. Things of pattern, shape and form appear on us just like reflections appear in the mirror. Has the mirror ever changed? And if you take what I said here before again and have a look about it, go into it, as you say, some may argue that this universe of duality, multiple existences, is a factual second reality, clearly seen by the senses.

It is clearly seen by the senses. Operated by the mind. But then, are the senses apart from the mind? Well, look, can a sense of feeling or anything be apart from it? Can they function without the support of the mind? Can they stand on their own in which they are embedded? What is this mind? And then you go into the mind. But what is this mind? Except for the mind. Except a bundle of thoughts. And isn't that a fact? Isn't it a mind? Can you show me a thing called mind without a thought? What is this mind except a bundle of thoughts? What are thoughts except evanescent liberals in the still, limitless ocean of pure being-awareness-self, which is the sole existence without a second?

So it cancels out any idea that there is any other reality or any other factual reality except that basic essence. Now, if you can try and prove that wrong, if you like. Well, I think the scientists would agree with you, because they say that there is no matter. It's just vibrating fields, ultimately. Yes, it's been pointed out by many. Not only me or the scriptures, but it's been pointed out by science, physics and all the wisdom. But they lose sight of it themselves. Yeah. They say that on the one hand, but on the other hand, they can't accept it. How many hands is it? Sixteen.

No, it doesn't. And no matter what I say, I point to it, it can always be pulled apart. Somebody will get up and say, like I told about when I read that book, what did they say? A thousand thoughts on one side and... No, what did the cook say about it? Pull it. They pointed it. No, that book doesn't look like a decision. It doesn't have any story. No. They've got a certain pattern. Like a ba. Avoid him like the... The plug. Avoid him like the plague. I don't know. Read my book, they don't say... He says, avoid him like the plague. Don't read it, get away from it.

Who's said that? Some boy with the name of Cook. Commenting on your book. Yeah, commenting on the book. I believed I was this person myself. We can create more and more concepts. If I say, see that you are just an empty space in which everything appears, and then we draw in analogies like the ocean and the waves, or the screen and the projector. And the shadow pictures which appear. The evening's night and the evening's night, just shadow appear. When you walk along and you see the shadow, there's nothing but a shadow. It's an obscuration of the light. It leaves a little bit of a dark, masquerade form of shadow.

It never existed as anything at all. I was driving here today and I saw this farmer standing on a porch on a house beside the road. And he was standing there like this. And I think there was some corn and some cows and stuff. I think people of the earth often see that there's a shadow. But it's just like the simplicity of it. He saw the corn growing. And he heard the cows lowing. And he saw the birds flying. And he just thought, buddy, me? Let's go in and have a bacon and eggs. Yeah, we'll cut it in. That's just how it should be and that's how it is.

But if you get into the analysis, we just keep on building more and more concepts, one on top of the other. And then you go through all these filters and you create these little groups on how you can talk about non-duality. But it's really just this. It's just this. Right here and right now it is just this. And it can't really be any more. And even space or time doesn't exist in this. You can't be five seconds ahead. And you can't be five seconds behind. There is just this. And it's not for anybody. It's not for a person. Like when you're asleep, you have no understanding or no recollection of anything.

Yet your nails are growing, the hair is growing, your digestion is going on. So it's all happening for no one. If someone sneaks up behind you and hits you over the head with a stick and you go unconscious, it's exactly the same. Everything will still be happening, but it's for no one. When you meditate and transcend, you know, you go on for 40 minutes, you look at your clock and say, geez, that went quick. Your hair and your nails and everything are still growing, but it's for no one. So if you translate that to this, this rabbiting on that's happening now, or this apparent understanding, is for no one.

It's just happening. Even the notion of an I, or a person, or a bill, or an ego, it's not for this, it's for no one. It's not for this body, and it's not for this mind. It's just for no one. It's just all happening. And, um, what else can I say? What sort of state of mind goes with that? Well, I reckon you can see it. I reckon, I reckon that it's, I reckon that it can be glimpsed. It might be like just a tenth of a second, but I reckon it can just be glimpsed. Particularly when you do Bob's investigation. It's a wonderful creation.

It will seemingly appear. It's constantly changing, constantly, what do you call it, improving, if you like. Wonderful creation. I see it for what it is. It's just an evanescent screen on the Pomeranian screen. That's what it is. It's constant and ever-changing like the ocean. And it's a wonderful seeming creation. But it's not a creation because it falls apart under the surface and it's not created. And there's no creatures, you and I are creatures, the insect is a creature, the dog is a creature, there's no creatures with any substance or any manipulation that have ever come out of it. But it appears to be so. And it's wondrous that it appears so real, so actual.

But you see that, what are you going to do then? And biting is that. You're going to let it, suffuse that pattern and express through it. The light that is in that, which is how you're seeing the world, through that effulgent light that's appearing through your eyes. Light appears through an aperture. If you've got it shut off somewhere, there's a crack somewhere in the shutting off of it, the light will find that crack. Where does the light appear through to you? Your eyes. Where do you see through? Where did that light start? When the sperm and the egg and the ovum came together. The essence of the food you eat and the prana and the energy from the father and your mother, when those two came together, through that essence, doubled that cell, and what happened?

It came through the umbilical cord of your mother. The light went into the cord, the solar plexus here. That's why they call it the solar plexus. The sun plexus. That's where the light of energy goes into you, and it goes through these other so-called plexuses and things like that, and it shines out of your eyes. Look at a corpse or something that's dying. The very first thing that happens to it is dying. The eyes glaze. The light of life goes out. And you are that light. Light is energy. And it goes out of that pattern, shape and form. Other pattern, shapes and forms appear. And it's that light that's continually pattern, shape and form and they're sprouting.

That's what Christ says, I am the light of the world. He's not talking about himself. It's that light which the world, as you see it, and as I see it and everybody else will see it, it's that light of life in which we see that world. And it's also said, don't hide your light under a bushel. Don't cover it over and hide it and be not confident in what you are. Open up and be confident. Let that light express. And that's what happens with people when they invent and sustain things. They have that natural confidence and allowing that light to express in all these wonderful talents and things like that.

And they mightn't know anything about this. But a lot of them basically know behind it all is that light of it. And you are the light. As again it says in the scriptures, let your light so shine before men that they will see your good works and they will glorify your Father. They will glorify that man that is in heaven. They put it that way. And point out that it's in this atmosphere or this place, there's a light that suffuses it and is the light of the world. Let that light out and shine. And the talents that are hidden there and the unknown eye that's hidden will express if they're given a chance.

But haven't we hidden them in the poor me? Oh, I couldn't possibly do that. I'm not this one. And the worst one we put upon ourselves is, after all, I'm only human. See how we've limited ourselves from the totality into this narrow, small, minute idea that we're a human being? And it is small and minute. Put this human form up against the universe. Compared to the universe, it would be less than a grain of sand. And how the hell do you think you're going to change the world if you're less than a grain of sand? People have got the idea they're going to change the world.

As I say, it's like the ant calling up the elephant's leg with intent to rape. Not going to get any shot. There's other horrible people there. And some of those things in the scriptures will come, well, you'll see them in a different light. It's not all bullshit that's there. There is a lot of bullshit in it. But in the recognition of the eternal nature, the bullshit will be seen through. I'm seeing things, a lot of these things, because it's opening up all the time. I read that Gita years ago and pushed it to one side, oh yeah, that's quite divine. Didn't see it. I picked it up again about 12 months ago and started to read it again.

And Ramana Maharshi could see that. He says, read it, continue to read it. Couldn't kill it. That's what he said, but it happens, you know. But he's one of the patterns. And the book itself will tell you, read this treatise. You see, you're very fortunate to get this treatise in your hands. And you're much more fortunate if you read it. Then get it in your hands. And it's on audio too. Yes, it's on audio, it's there clearly. Many people have read it. Very few have understood it. What was that one? It actually brings it upside down. It's the N. R. Krishna Murthy by 00. That's the translation.

Essence of Raibhukita. From Sri Ramana Ashram into Ravana Malai. And that's like, I guess that's where you get it. Mick brought it from Ramana Ashram. Mick brought it back from India and hadn't read it himself. Yeah, but you can download PDF online of the same version because I did. And we see it, oh, that's just another text, another thing we've read all. You're very fortunate to get it in your hands. And they say, this is the open secret. Read it and get it diligently. Read this open secret. Very few don't see it. It's open there for everybody to see and read. I think it's the same with the scientists who sees that matter is not real.

And then, so they've had that experience of seeing things evolve and then dissolve. I believe in matter and I'm seeing that it dissolves. But instead of applying that process of discovery to everything, such as their psychology, it remains a concept to them. It's just for them a field. But actually, there's wisdom there if they realise, actually, everything births and dies. And watching that as a process of the mind, going, hang on, it's because I go, oh, no, I'm going to make this real, this real. Everything, just let everything arise and dissolve. And then there's a lack of attachment to the so-called reality. And then it's like whatever's happening next can reference whatever is going on in the universe and there's not that sense of a certain intention.

Because there's many other intentions which are better than something that can be pre-thought. When you look, there's no pre-thinking. Yeah. Well, I don't know. I don't see any of that. You've said it. Is this part of the process of the mind that you're trying to make? Yeah. It's part of it too. We're Italian. There never was a mind. Nor any of its countless forms like world, jiva, jiva's a person, so human beings. There isn't the least bit about it. And all these are the form of the eternally undifferentiated Supreme Brahman self. The Supreme Brahman self is that stillness. Stillness. This is the truth. The one who hears this great secret, diligently, and understands completely, abides as that stillness.

And a lot of scientists who get that talk about it like Einstein was famous for. Yeah, some of them. So imagination is where it's at. Not the reality. I think that in science and philosophy in the West, in any field of study in the West, seems to be about the ideas and the concepts rather than something you apply as an understanding to yourself experientially. And there's just like a dysfunctional Western thought or something like that. Okay, great ideas, but... There seems to be a lot who are coming to... That's right. It's happening. But when you listen to mainstream philosophers, there's still this core... And there's times in history where they take something very seriously.

Like, you know, the Christians suddenly, you will burn in hell if you blah, blah, blah. Like, suddenly a religion can become extremely strong in its fixed belief for... Whereas at other times, it's not like that at all. Because that's part of the birth. I want to make this house... Bob, I very much appreciate what you're saying and that clarity that comes. So I like to complain that there's... myself that want to hold on or control or protect perhaps very kind of young part. I never quite know what to do about that. Take me out of... And so then I become frustrated with the investigation. But have you ever asked yourself, who's it happening to?

Yeah, I do. Well, who's it happening to? Um, yeah, well... The obvious action must be me. Yeah. And have another look and see if this move's real. Yeah. See if this can... And that me in the investigation, it evaporates, that me in the investigation. And that evaporation, why take on the story again? Well, I don't know. It doesn't... I'm not doing it deliberately. No, I know you're not. It's not you that can do anything deliberately or whoever hasn't done anything. But it comes up. I don't know how it happens. It's just like I go about my business and then later on I feel like clarity's gone and...

Well, it was like that for me for years too, but it's... Each time, you know, I use concepts to believe this has taken me a little bit further or whatever. But that was the point. It grew. It grows of itself in the room, you know, when you start looking for it. There's a story about her in 75. And some of the Indians that came there, Walensky came a few years later, and he went over there a few years later and spoke to some of these Indians who were there then. And what was coming out there were beautiful. And he said, what did you do? And they all said, nothing.

It just sat with... It kept coming back to what he'd told me. And it grew of himself. And it does. That's what's happened to you over the years, you know. I've tried all sorts of stuff. I've enjoyed well-being and compassion. I never knew could have been in this pattern of years ago. So there's got to then be some sort of precipitation to sort of kick that growth. Because if you just almost catalyst the peak and you keep... Then there I'm in society. Then you just die and that's it. But if you come to one of Bob's sessions or whatever, like you say, there's some resonance there.

You say there's some resonance. So that resonance then grows and you embody it. And what brings you here? There's been a resonance before. That's... You've heard the name and what's going on. Without knowing anything about it, you come along to have a listen. And you've been to many other things. It takes you away. It's a great experience. It takes you a little bit further. So in talking about it, it's creating more... You know what brought me here? The booze. The booze. The good old booze, yeah. Your head brought me here. A gutter drunk. No hoper. Spice up. Crooked on the world and everybody in it.

Spewing and shitting himself in a bad way. But that is... Hard way to... If we go to our... If I say... Yeah, I can do this little self-interrogation. Yeah. And then I say, well, I'm aware. Yeah. And then I say, okay, I'm aware. What I is aware. Then I go and investigate more. And I do suggestion of is seeing or is awareing happening. Yeah. And then I say what I... Then I continue the investigation. And I don't care at this stage who's doing the investigation, whether it's Bill or some other bloody shit. I just do it. And I say, well, what is seeing? And I say, well, it's just happening all by itself.

It's just like this is a prism and the light comes in and goes out and the images are registered. So I don't do that. And this thought, I see, the seeing is already happening before I say, I see. So it's not the mind and it's not the body that's seeing. So what the hell... That's all that's here, the mind and the body. So what the hell is seeing? Doesn't everybody in that moment like see the whole thing? Like see the whole bloody picture just in that split second? Isn't that like just bloody obvious? It doesn't stick. Yeah, it's obvious. It doesn't stick. But Bill, when you said, you know, you got to the point, your awareness.

There's awareness and you can't negate it. Yeah, you can't negate it. Well, that awareness is self-aware. You don't have to find there is a where, I think, but you realise there's no self that can be aware. The awareness itself is self-aware. It's the one self that's appearing. It's everything. Yeah, yeah. It's self-aware. It's self-seeing. It's self-knowing. It's self-shining. It's not a personal self. That's what we've believed in for so long, a personal self. But if you're aware, isn't it that... Aren't you self-aware right now? Yeah, well, it's awareness and nothing's starting that awareness. Nothing kicking it on. Nothing at the beginning of it or in it.

So it must be self-aware. That is the self you're looking for. That's the self that you're looking for. Is that what you just said? Yeah. You are that self. Yeah, yeah. I am that self. I spent ten days with two original dudes and they went to bees and... Oh, God. We actually made a bee taste and we ate them and... Anyway, I did a whole lot of things. Anyway, he said, with a stick, get off your bike, because I told him I cycled a lot. And he said, you don't see anything when you're on your bike. You're going too fast and you're getting rid of your truck.

You're avoiding cars and curbs. You said, walk, walk. Anyway, so I've been walking, walking, walking, and everybody must experience this. Without doubt, when you're walking for hours and you all of a sudden look back and you say, and the sense of the eye has just not been there. It hasn't been there. And we would all do this when you're rolling our futons, teaching the kids, doing a scientific running the restaurant, you know what I mean? There's just massive parts of the day where that I is not, and it's always full of action. And I'm up to page 30, or I've read 30 pages before, you know, I know that I am really enjoying this story, you know?

I only really know that I'm enjoying it when Carolyn says, hey, how's the book going? I said, shit, I've read 40 pages, you know what I mean? You're just like right into it. It's just like total enjoyment with no I. So that must happen, or it does happen all the time to everybody. There's an absorption and everything. You can absorb yourself with that. Well, that's non-conceptual awareness. I mean, you couldn't get a clearer example of non-conceptual awareness because there's no concept, there's no thinking, there's no I, there's no ego, there's no I've got to reach that point and I've got to work to get there, blah, blah, blah.

Then you might understand there's nothing simpler than this. It's the most simple thing in the world. Yes. We con... What do we do? We convoluted, or convoluted, whatever. All sorts of concepts. Nothing simpler than one, and it's not even one. Simplicity itself. Sometimes I come out of a TV programme, or often lately I've noticed I've come out of a TV programme and the whole body's tense, teeth are clenched, and it's been like that for a really long time. And there's been, there's a wee memory of just noticing that things relax, and there's a wee memory of, oh, I really wanted that person to get whatever they wanted.

I mean, reality or not reality, you know, so-called reality. And so some kind of triggers are going down, some kind of reactions are happening. That'd be the same as your hair growing, or your nail growing. Yeah, OK. Or your clenching of the teeth, or your tightening of the muscles, same thing. It's just all bio-capacitary business. It's not a clarity-clarity, it's a rest from eyeing, for sure, but it's not, I guess, but... Cos I have the memories as I come out of it, I don't really know what's gone. But the eyeing doesn't really matter either, cos all that... But I just talked about that 41 and a half hours of walking wasn't for anybody.

Just because the notion of an eye appears, that's not for anybody either. It's just another thing to look at. You'll see a fish, and you'll see a bit of sand, and you'll see a headland, and you'll see an eye, and you'll see thoughts. It's just all... They're just all appearances. Not for anyone. It's actually easier... It's actually harder to see the truth of what everything is when you're stopping and thinking about it. And so, because the thing you have to see is that it's self-shining. It's not you being aware. It's self-awareness is itself being its self-awareness. And there's nothing to get, and there's no one here.

It's that letting go, seeing, or kind of the ease, of relaxing. Of relaxing out of identifying with that awareness, which is self-shining. Because awareness is the... Like that's... That's the... Presence awareness is the big shaboogie. And owning it, or identifying with it, is like that saying, Oh, I just see this miraculous truth. Oh, it must be me. It's not. And that's when people grasp it. They have some spiritual insight, and then they go, Oh, I had that. And they... There's this slipping in of, Oh, I must have died. Because we do things, and we go, Oh, I did that. But no one's ever done anything.

No. But when you analyse it, like you're doing now, or you may think, I've been analysing it with thoughts, and getting into an eye that I've seen this. That's it. That's it also. That is it also. It's always... You can't banish... You can't banish it. You can't summon it. You can't... It never gets coloured. You can't tint it. It's got absolutely no qualities. The light's always shining. So whether you're in analysis mode, I don't understand mode, or I think I've seen something mode, that's all it. It is the one expressing as everything. There's absolutely no exclusions. You know, you just can't say, We'll put these over here, because they don't fit the model.

We'll just have these self-shining moments that are it. That's the whole point. And that's the way it works. And that's the way it works. And that's the way it works. And that's the way it works. And that's the way it works. It's just this irrespective of what's going on. And also, you've got to be very careful, Tony, you were saying about the clarity, that when you see, just as you say, everything is just happening, and it's happening for no one, and it always did. And now, yeah, okay, nothing is wrong anymore. That means I'll get out a squat. So nothing is wrong when you walk.

Nothing is wrong when you have a bath. Nothing is wrong when you have a shower. Nothing is wrong when you have a nice meal or when you're happy or when you're at ease. And then, yes, that's it. There's nothing more to it. Yeah, but there's no clarity. Well, to who? The idea, the assumption is that there should be someone who has the clarity. And there isn't no one. There isn't anyone to have clarity. It's just the absence of obstruction, absence of the credit-taking individual. So life goes as the river flows, just naturally, spontaneously. And occasionally, there is an ego. No, no, it shouldn't be this way.

This is wrong. Something should have changed. I shouldn't be having these thoughts. That's just the obstruction. And that obstruction, of course, it is all it as well. That's how the life presents itself, to itself. So the clarity, the idea, because we were talking with Robin just before this, the idea that, oh, I'm not going to be doing this, I'm just going to do this, and I'm going to do that. And the idea of clarity is that the idea of clarity is not going to change. It's not going to change. So I'm going to be able to change the way that I see things. And the idea of clarity is that I'm going to be able to change the way that I see things.

So the clarity, the idea, because we were talking with Robin just before the meeting, idea of I've got it, you know, I've got it, nobody's going to tell me anything right now, nobody's going to teach me now. That's not clarity, that clarity is the other thing you were talking about. Exactly. Yeah, that's what I mean by clarity. Yeah, I know, but I wanted to highlight it for, generally, that wasn't really meant for you, you just kick-started me with that aspect. That's the form of clarity that people often might use. This is a dangerous form of clarity, the idea that I have got it, I am enlightened now, so nobody can tell me anything now, because I already know it, I know all the theory, I'm not going to listen to Bob anymore because I know it already.

But I'm still suffering, I'm suffering immensely, but well, you know, that's part of the game, Buddha was lying, so this is not a clarity. But the question is, is there anyone who is going to get the clarity? No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. And that's what the problem is. The problem is we've taken on the idea we're a person, and taken on the idea there's a personal self, and that's what we've been looking for, a self, to make this self, to this person self-realised, self-knowing. But the person is a fiction. It comes from the word persona, the mask.

We've got a conceptual image. A conceptual image is a mask of ideas, concepts, and we've taken to believe this is what I am. But there's no personal self. There's the one self that's self-aware, self-shining, self-knowing. It's the one self appearing, patterning, shaping, forming, and expressing as everything. And you can't be anything other than that. Forget the person. Have a look. Not that idea that it is me, the person, this egoic entity, which is the cause of all your psychological suffering and all your problems. And see, losing that, dropping it off, there's a natural spontaneous joy, a sense, as Masaaki Dada put it, of well-being, being well.

There's nothing wrong anymore, naturally and effortlessly. And on that, all shadow, all shadow pictures can appear. But can the shadow pictures corrupt or contaminate it or touch it in any way? Look at that mirror behind you there. Have a look at it. Just see it. See it. What is it full of? It is absolutely full of reflections. There's not a spot in that mirror that hasn't got a reflection. It's not reflecting the ceiling. It's reflecting the space between the ceiling and the thing. That's it. Nothing full of reflection. But of any one of those things, has any one of those reflections contaminated or corrupted the mirror they're appearing in?

And could there be a reflection if there wasn't a mirror for it to be? It's a poor analogy because the mirror needs something outside itself to reflect in. But you, I and everything in this manifestation are in that reflection. We are that reflection, patterning, shaping and forming like shadow pictures. And this appears back in the mirror. And it's not just a reflection. It's a reflection of the silence and stillness. Anything other than that. What an amazing mirror, isn't it? Yeah. Beautiful. Beautiful. 3D. Spacious. 3D. 4D. Whatever. They take it out to all the 4Ds. How did you get it in? Yeah. And it reflects out of itself.

Yeah. And if you think it's something, not just the belief that those reflections are real, go up and try and grab one. When you've got the belief that those ideas or concepts you have are real, try and grasp it. Test it out. You think there's something in there, you can't see it. You can't see it. You can't see it. You can't see it. You can't see it. Try and grasp it. Test it out. You think there's an ego there? Tell me. Well, show me it. It's supposed to be, clarity is short-lived for me. It happens a lot, but it's short-lived. It's very short-lived. It's weird.

It's just so clear that no meaning is being added in. It's just very clear that that's not happening. But then there's fuzzy areas, lots of fuzzy areas where it's just fuzzy, so you're pretty sure some meaning's being added in somewhere, but it's not obvious why it's not. Sometimes it's super obvious at coming in and coming in, this meaning may be going away. Sometimes it's just, I don't know, I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. meetings being edited somewhere, but it's not obvious why. Sometimes it's super obvious at coming in and going, this meeting making happening, starting to happen, and then it flashed away and didn't and it was blank again.

Or whatever, or it's just left, and then it was a bit of rest, but then this film was coming in. It's just all this play's going on all the time. All shadow pictures. Pardon? All shadow pictures. And moments of clarity, where you just know no meeting making occurred. No, nothing got laid on. It's just pretty, no meeting making. No thinking. No meeting making. Thoughts can be even walking through, but there's no meeting making of it. No identification with the thoughts. Yeah, there's no, certainly not occasion, but there's no, yeah, like there's a moment there, but then it came in again, meeting making happened again, because it went fuzzy, it wasn't clear anymore.

And then it flashed, and it flashed it out again. Yeah, just moments where, some of it's gonna be made minimally true, but it's just really clear, and then it's fuzzy. You know, then it's not clear. So clarity for you, it's like a sky, and then the meeting making, like a cloud, it's passing. And sometimes, and when the clouds are there, you don't really see, you just know, kind of you're in the clouds, you can't even really see what it's about. But the sky you can see for sure. Is it okay to be in the clouds? Yeah, I don't really do much of that meta beating up anymore, probably for about seven months, not much of that comes up.

Doesn't happen so much, yeah. That was one, that's one, I think it drops off earlier on, like the meta stuff, you know, oh, you're bad non-dualist, you know. Because actually there's, there's always only going to appear clouds. It's just whether there's a, there's a, it's just as whether there seems, if there's, yeah. Judgment, whatever. If there's an opinion about them, that's, but it's very strange to have an opinion about clouds. Don't you love beautiful clouds in a sunny day that give you a nice shadow? It's like the real freedom is to be totally at peace with anything that appears. But I. Be in love with it.

Be in love with what is. If there are clouds, meaning making, okay, wonderful. That's right. I find it really funny, like, oh, sometimes, like with, with one of my relatives, I'll make a joke about something and they'll go, oh, don't say that, it might happen. Like, like, and this is very common, this belief in the word. There's, there's just this, you know, they, they, there's a strong preference for positive thoughts. That's right. And so you say, oh, you say something terrible, I mean, it's probably not appropriate, but say, you know, don't throw them in the gas chambers or something. There's all these connections and then that, but then they really go, oh, like, oh, suddenly I'm going to, we're going to have a, all these, you know, all these bad things are going to happen because there's this, such a strong belief in the word where, you know, people like Monty Python make the point that it's just all this superstition.

Yeah. And it's not, and I'm shocked how much people really, it's like the world's coming to the end for them. Yeah, yeah, yeah, what they believe in and live by. Yeah, yeah, yeah, some of those things. And, and, you know, there's nothing to say that you can reflect what's going, like, you know, when he, when the, when the, in the, you know, the comment like the ant's going to rape the elephant. There's all these images there and I can, you can, there's nothing wrong with the reactions, but they're all just reactions, aren't they? And there's never going to be not a reaction to something. I'm thinking of a drowning ant.

That's what I'm getting. Well, let's not go into the detail. And then when I, when I pull out Bob on the idea that, that he's going to die, I, that wasn't really a belief in a thought, but he was saying, oh, you better listen to it because I'm not going to be there for long. On one hand, I say drop the story, but on one, on the other hand, I know this is love speaking. What he's really communicating is get into it right now because there is no any other time. Doesn't mean that he's going to come. Well, what did it say? He's going to give you a chance to imitate so they could recognise that there are lots of dead people and people die.

Yeah. But at the same time, you know, this, this is, this is the way love expresses itself. Like even a threat of their own death, which he doesn't give a shit, but because he's not going to know his last breath anyway, so it's not really much of his concern. But yeah, it is my concern. I have strong preference for him to hang around. Yeah, sure. Oh, well, looking to that, because you know, that's going to hold you back from enlightenment. And I know that that, that strong preference. I don't know. is going to be challenged one day and I will will I be okay with that who cares I don't know right now I don't think about it I don't care but the fact that he the love is speaking listen to it now there may be no tomorrow and then the love is responding drop the story is here now you're alive this is just all the words it's just a play of love really that's that's what it does the whole appearance the whole the whole game of it's just an expression is for nothing and it's for there's no reason there's no meaning and it's for no one again it's just the river flowing it's just the weather changing the stormy clouds coming and then the sunny sky comes who cares it's really even the preference for the sky with clarity without the clouds is that is the entanglement even the preference for him being alive yes it is an entanglement it is showing up here this is love I don't mind I don't resist that preference it's welcome but preference is welcome when it's gone and it's gone it's fine too because in the invest in the investigation there's awareness before preference there's awareness before intention there's awareness and that awareness is blissfully there before an attention arises otherwise the thoughts could never be seen through sure yeah I don't try to correct myself anymore in my mind so much and I'm not sure if that's because I'm lazy.

No. Or I've just gotten a bit clearer. What do you mean by correct? You look it. About non duality in any way, maybe other things. That's a real good thing. Self-location. You don't look anymore. You don't look back. How's your music going? Oh good Bob. Good. I've started my masters and I'm doing lots of projects and enjoying that. Oh my god, yeah. So life's expressing for me like that. Yeah, yeah. That's right. I don't have any problem expressing through music. Some other areas of my life get a bit. I reckon there's a, I've noticed that there's a person starts investigating and then all, there's been all this attachment to all this.

And then there's a point where they start to, they start to get into these stories and beliefs and then, and they start to be dropped. And so there's a point where everything doesn't matter. And they almost become like a, a bit of a bored or depressed because all they believed in activity is letting go of it. And then there's, there's, because the interest is not in having more interests. The interest is seeing what's at the bottom of everything. And then. But I get resistance in the black cloud so that's not going to happen. Yeah. Yeah. And then stopping opening up. Bring it on. Yeah, bring it on.

Give me the black clouds. And that's what happens. You know, these are all the ways they dissolve. But it's like there's enough annoyance, there's enough discomfort in the black clouds that there's no way I'm going to sit in boredom and relaxation. It's going to keep, I'm pretty sure it's just going to keep opening into this. It seems to be anyway. Hey Bob, you, you, you give us the blue sea analogy. Yeah. You say, go and see if the water is blue. And we go and investigate. We see it's not. We see it's clear. We see it's not. We see it's not. We see it's clear.

We see it's not. We see it's not. We see it's not. We see it's clear. I climb up to the sand dune and I look and it's blue. But I know ... Go back down. But I know that it's not blue. So that Knowing. That knowing, sort of like sets me free you say. Yeah. Now you're in truth. Yeah, knowing the truth. So, like John was saying before, if you, which I think is a really good point, you know, you think you've got this, but in thinking that you've got it, you know that you haven't got it. In the sense that we understand, we've only got knowledge, we've only got concepts, we've only got little grids that we build to explain this to myself.

Yet, it results in a knowing, in the sense that one and one is two. And it's like that. There's a knowing. I don't have to sit down and get the calculator out. And, you know, do this. I mean, it's just an understanding. It's just a knowing. So that, you know, where you were saying, I think I know what you were saying. You were saying that, you know, you were trying to like, no criticism or anything, but it's just like, you thought maybe that I thought, okay, Bill, you maybe thought that Bill thinks he's got it. Yeah? Yeah. And I think I do. I think I've got it.

You know, like this body, got this sorted. Drop it. What do I do? Drop the story. Yeah, I know. Drop that, because that is a story. Yes. But I can see that if I have a thought that I've got it, that's bullshit news. But I've got the story that you've got it too. And Terry's got it, and Bob's got it. But we have to communicate through the story. Yeah, so we have to communicate. Okay, so just to take this a little bit further, Kat, you were saying, you know, like, well, you know, who someone was saying about clouds or whatever. Yeah. You know, how can you be upset about a cloud?

Yeah. Yet, upsetness happens, you know. Yeah. I've had some upsetting, but I mean, I'm not going to pretend that if something upsetting happens, that it's all roses and lovely. You just don't notice it's a cloud until you come out of it, though. Yeah, but I mean, otherwise it's. Love your upsetness. Otherwise it's, otherwise it's like a, it's just bullshit. Then, you know, if you cloud sorrow or pain with, you know, it's all right, because I know that it's not real. It's just an appearance. It's only the space. That's the type of sky you walk out into. He's being ironic. Hang on, hang on. All I want to say is.

Let him finish. He's ironic. All I want to say is that you can't go any further than that. I can't be in space, but I can't be, you know, I can't like press a button or do it. I don't want the technique to become the open space. I am the open space. I just am that illuminates everything. How can I not be that? Yeah, but what is the eye that knows it's the open space? Well, that's not there. That's not there, mate. You're using the word and the problem is as connotations. Yeah, I know. Yeah. Yeah. But you're starting to analyze now. So like we said, we can't talk about this.

Well. like express it in in a certain way and i'm doing my best i know that i do all and i know nothing and i don't have any personal volition i know that i know that and i prove it every bloody day and all the time because i can make a list of 10 things i do one two and three get a phone call and five to six of stuff you know what i mean like who is in charge i reckon there's a nice analogy in that you know which is people used to all the time they would sit by a stream and you would listen to the sounds and and the mind and the riddle is you know where's the sound and what's making it and the reality is that there's so many sounds and so many things that are going on with that sound that's is it this rock is it this work so what happens is you go hang on there's no way ever that i will know the simplest thing which is where that sound is from so in reality everything is like that i am one of these ripples in the sea and it's beautiful that i don't know what it is but it doesn't mean that it's not going to drown me or i'm not going to get hurt or whatever it gets hurt gets hurt but this beautiful quality of not knowing is exactly the point because i'll constantly see even the truth as a blue i'm not always going to see this blue there's no way i could not say whatever i'm going to say i'll never understand non-duality because understanding it means you can color it you can say what the color is it has no color no no right and that will never i'll never ever get and like people that i think that's why people sat next to streets are you saying are you saying that it's just an understanding i mean this this this is conceptual you're talking conceptually right you don't live like you like that that's the way you live you don't live like you like that that's the way you live all those sounds you don't you you you do but do you think that you live like you that bubbling brook do you think that do you experience it because well my experience is that anything has its birth and death and i will have beliefs that are still in the process of being believed but i know they will die and that i don't care what the clouds are anymore i don't care what i'm believing anymore i don't care what you're believing anymore i'll sit here and sit on the couch and listen to the cars go by and say wonder what they count you know there's nothing to get and there's a point where i think it's pretty obvious it was talking to me but anyway yeah well yeah yeah as people more coming from that than not but most people seem the other way i find but i just that's that so i think i think what you're saying is beautiful because you're saying that that that you can't ever know but there is an understanding that things arise and evolve and everything is like that and finally no there's no end there's no point where and that's why i think it's funny people say oh this person didn't like and that person enlightened no because they just have seen some a whole bunch of stuff that rises and falls but no one's ever goodness no one's ever not gonna be in the human form with something that's gonna appear you know and then they suddenly go like you know these and it's beautiful to watch these the gurus that are beautiful and they're teaching the right thing but then you can see they have this yes skirmish and suddenly go and stop each other or each other oh yeah yeah and like and they do all this garbage which is like which is just natural and whoever believed that it was about becoming some perfect being it's all transient how can it be it's constant and it's moment to moment also i mean in your wildest imagination where do you think it's going to be something like i don't know kundalini uh they're going to have bloody blue pearl in their head and the legion of angels going to come down as jesus i mean they're all just bloody experiences that just come and go they can't there is that's not what bob's pointing to what he's pointing to is what's always there and if there's a result the awareness for a person does relax and their spine straightens and energy flows better and they get help and that doesn't mean that they've got it they've got it it just means that they're they've had an experience there's there's there's stuff that's happening because there's nothing there's results from seeing the truth that are positive and can help your health and let go of sorrow and whatever it goes on that's so you can start moving the flow but the flow is just going to be the same it's going to be still flowing events are going to happen things are going to rise ordinary awareness yeah we were just talking before the meeting with uh with bob and robin whoever say i've got it should continue investigating because if there is i who've got it obviously the investigation hasn't been complete because we need a new term yeah well just go another concept i don't know it gets it gets kind of convoluted when you start talking about it but i do think um being sort of honest and earnest and also i think there's certain things for the better for someone oh yeah there's a lot of things like better diet can bring a change to better diet and a new skill and the open-mindedness yeah means that something that you that resonates you could go actually try something because you're not having some fixed idea of what you should do but actually there's new things all around the corner anybody doing was anybody trying just happening doesn't mean storing doesn't happen a lot just happening yeah i think i do think i've got a big plan for tomorrow you know bring my car down to here then i'm gonna go to the case of thane probably drop in and see you i'm doing all the i i am doing all that just it appears it appears that an eye is doing it but they're all shadow figures like you said yeah it's a good metaphor shadow yeah another one there says thought formations everything is the thought formation is believed in is the projected image believed in so it's basically a thought for me i like the image of sort of like a vessel and i'm just the air or the space but i'm doing all this stuff that's called inner inner space and so from that perspective because i see myself visiting the in the vessel.

All my shortcomings and my mad habits and concepts are the vessel. Yet I can just float out of it. Imagine the vessel not being there at all. Just the empty space and then consciousness makes an announcement and it goes, Bill, gets a label and that's where it starts. From there Bill gets his knickers in a knot because of Terry. He thinks I'm talking shit. Bob's had enough of me talking so here comes another bloody self esteem problem that I've got to stick up here. Then Tony says, no I can't come to the dance here on Tuesday night and now I'm a shit poor me. You actually operate out of this cage of concepts which is bloody, which is cloudy.

Cloudy. Cloudy. Cloudy. Cloudy but also crazy and ridiculous. And foggy. You can't see anything. The black fog is where you beat yourself up. That's the black cloud. That might just be just as you come out of the grey cloud is a moment of black. Just very quickly, when Bob told you to do his seeing happening, when you thoroughly do that, you see that you're the space. That's all I've ever done to say, yep, I got it. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. Just a little bit. Just a little bit. Or you just don't care to ask anymore. Well, yeah. Like when that point comes. You don't really care who you are anymore.

You don't care about any questions anymore. They just don't show up. Life just flows. Well, it's interesting. Bob, I kind of been investigating non duality. I must admit if I'm honest because I thought there'd be a benefit to it and that benefit is less suffering and a sense of peace. at least in the background you know it's something better dream better dream yeah more pleasurable more like yeah well being able to not that I thought the problems would go away but and I think most people must have seen that otherwise what would they do it personal self real realized if you abide as that one essence what do you do just come with the food yeah we go with the flow of the title thank you really and that that's really I find going with the phone and the personal motivation is also a story yeah so you just got a demoness or your music well I might react to that and I might feel like I'm not going that moment because I feel internal senses of pressure other times where I'm just maybe I'm just writing music or something just recognize that is the flame what are you gonna do see what happens whether anxiety crops up when you start off with the teacher that's also the flood doesn't matter so to sort of go with the flow is just ordinary awareness it's just I mean to go with the flow to me just sounds I mean it might elucidate wanky some days just see sorry man some days just see well they do know you know I don't know if it clarifies anything but for me I really didn't have that image to go towards but I'm always kind of not like goals but kind of resisted them too but girls just never was something I was interested in and so I was just like oh I feel like I've really got to go to Australia and do this it's like it's going to be uncomfortable and I'm like oh yeah it just happened like steps started being taken and I ended up here and and I never once think I have to go to Bob's or am I going to go to Bob's or there's never those words never come up with me someone asks me about them and they said why are you here just yeah not somewhere else so kind of do have that experience where that's the null experience pretty much in terms of yeah there's no backstory going with the flow it's like living effortlessly like the cat or like a fish in the river or like a bird in the flying just whatever comes up and the planning comes up the making arrangements for the party for Bob's birthday it just comes up and it is being attended and that's and that's and going to those like the ease of just being rather than the disease of not going of resisting it resisting what is it that's another way of putting the ease of being hm yeah you know down the corner but I would I would I would want to argue with cat and probably Bob too without the flood you know it's like I reckon I think the flow is just don't like it though use it doesn't matter no word is right you know every word is is by its nature is dualistic well that's I'm going to go with the flow.

If you say I'm going to go with the flow, you're already going with the flow. Well, what do they tell you? Abide, is there? Yeah. It's the same thing. It's just an absence of resistance. I like that much better. It's just absence of resistance. Whatever team you like, build your team. This is the point. The resistance in here. The resistance in here. I've forgotten my chair. You make holes in the air. You can point. When something goes wrong in your life, whatever, a D minus or something like that, are you saying that that understanding means that, are you saying that there's a lot of resistance to it?

I say, shit happens. I really do. I say, shit happens. So you feel the resistance and you're okay with feeling the resistance because you have no understanding? No. You get lost in the environment. Thank you. You know, there will be, I'm not going, oh, it's all fine. I'm not doing that. I'm not doing that at all. I get right into it and I try and solve it, fix it, address it, look at my life and see what I'm doing and blah, blah, blah, like you live with another person. And that's going with the flow. That's what I'm saying, Bob. Just the same like an animal.

If the animal gets trapped, it doesn't pretend that it's glorious, glorious and wonderful. No, it's trying to get out of it. I find in those moments, I find I lose my sense of, and... Well, that's it too. You're in the stream. Yeah, that's okay. Yeah. Just all happening, losing it or having it or thinking you're not. And you notice as you come out of that. So that's, you notice as you come out of the black cloud and we might be just a gray cloud and you're just quite not uncomfortable, but then there's a moment there might be a wee bit of black, like crap, I was in the cloud again.

And then the sky is fairly available. It might just be totally disappears or it might fade fairly quickly. You know, fog to blue sky, you know, just all these. You were saying before you don't interrogate yourself anymore or punish yourself anymore or you said something like that. In a year, you'll just be living your life and you'll be coming to Bob and people will be saying, what are you coming to Bob for? You got it. And you'll say, oh, because I love Bob. That's the only reason I'm here. You know what I mean? That's just... I feel, on the bit of a side issue, like I did for a while this exercise, you know, it's called the grateful flow where you say I'm grateful for this, for that and you just do this for a period of time.

And the thing that I noticed about it was that there was a habit of being negative. And then by being, putting in the habit for a while of being positive, I was like, oh, I like the air, I like the meal I had, I like this, I like that. What happened is, which I noticed had an effect, is that it revealed the habit of being negative, which was unconscious. And then I was like, oh, now I have a habit of being positive and there's still negativity. But the point is to see that actually this, see the way the mind arises, whatever pattern it is, it's just a pattern.

But it really was helpful to go, oh, let's look at a different kind of way of looking at things. Because it's so easy. Because it's so easy to have an unconscious habit of looking at things in a certain way because thoughts arise out of habits. And to say, hang on a minute. So sometimes you'll do something like which resonates because it's pointing out some habit of mine which isn't needed anymore, which does whatever it does. There's a lot of capacity to see through a lot of habits which are, I mean, who, no one will want to choose to, but they'll be negative every single day of their life for no reason.

And then when life moves you to go and join some gratitude movement and post gratitude page something, I've seen people doing it like every day for some time. That's a beautiful movement of life. If you don't take credit that I'm doing it to whatever, fix myself or whatever, it's just movement of life. And yeah, it is probably a pleasurable thing to do. And the negative habit to be broken, gosh, it's just like breaking the habit of smoking. That's... Well, sometimes a negative event that occurs, like by chance, is one very different thing from a negative thing that occurs from a kind of negative attitude that's created from a habit of beliefs.

And I think often negative things arise more from the habit than from, you know, we're not often swept away by volcanoes in Australia. Yeah, it's the wiring of the brain. Can I quickly just say something? Just imagine what you were saying before. If I'm off, just correct me. Yeah. It was along the lines of... Let me hold you that way. It was along the lines of there's nothing to get. Yeah. There's nothing to attain. Yeah. So it's kind of like, well, what am I doing? Whatever. Like, you know, I thought this evader thing was going to get me something or it was going to arrive at something or it was going to see something or it was going to become something or whatever the case may be.

Yeah, that was my complaint. Yeah. So, you know, you're right in that there's nothing to get. But there's plenty to let go of. Yes. That's right. I get that. Because earlier you were saying, yeah, but I don't think you do get it. No, I understand what you're saying. Hold on. So earlier I think you were touching on the fact that there were childhood things, that you've experienced in your life, that you're still perhaps wrestling with or trying to come to terms with, et cetera. Yeah. That's the sort of stuff that drops away. Yeah. Completely drops away. And all you've got, I have my own childhood stuff.

Yeah. Yeah. All you've got in relation, see, this is the duality. This is the trick and this is where it gets really hard. It's easy, really, really easy to see that I've got memories of certain things that have happened in my past. It's real easy to see that. And it's real easy after you've been coming to a beta for a little while to go, yeah, well, look, it's just a thought and it's just an image and it's just an idea and I should just be able to let it go. And, you know, and we might even say, I've seen it. Yeah. But it's not just in the pure seeing of it.

I've let it go. Okay. But where it gets, where the rubber meets the road is that me that believes it's either seeing it or has experienced it or is letting it go is also in that story that you're supposed to, that you're seeing or letting go. It's not separate from it. That's really hard to see. It's easy to see. Yeah. Yeah. blah blah blah yeah i can see that you come in you watch your thoughts come and go throughout the course of the day and you also just go i'm not doing it yep they're just thoughts are just coming and going of their own volition they're coming from god only knows where and they disappear into god only knows where yeah that's the easy part it's a real easy part to see but there's still the sense of me that's aware of those thoughts that are coming and going yeah and i can see all those thoughts coming and going it's finding out where that means yeah what is that yeah it's one thing to see the thoughts coming and going well that's the investigation yeah and what i'm telling you i'm giving you a shortcut that me is those thoughts that are coming and going it's the it's one and the same thing yeah it's exactly the same thing it's not separate yeah okay now here's some good news the reason that it feels separate is because there's that sense of presence.

There's that sense of being which that me also hangs on to. It's not even aware that it's doing it. It kind of is because it goes, yeah, this is me. I'm the body. I'm here and I'm seeing and I'm seeing out of these eyes and I'm hearing out of these ears. They talk about misidentification. Yeah. So, but the reason it gets tough is because there's a connectedness here and there's also a connectedness there. And then there's this so-called illusory me that's in the middle of both of those things. It feels that it's separate from both of them. Yeah. Okay. And that illusory me is nothing but all that content, that stuff that you see, that you watch coming and going.

And that that's watching it coming and going is not the me. Yeah. It is not you as such. Yeah. Do you understand that? I. I investigate that all the time. Okay. And, and it dissolves for a while. And what I, what I was talking about, I feel they feel to me that, I think Bill, you were saying that even that sort of, even, even that's with that. But I. So you've got to expand your view. I like that. I like that thing about the, the sense of me, you know, the physiological feeling stuff is also as, is a different experience of. Yeah. What comes and goes.

It's, which is like the sensation that the sensations that I have, I attribute to mean X, Y, and Z, and they are subtle and they hang around and they have to be that investigation. Investigation. Well, what keeps, what keeps it there is what we give it nothing. And, and it's any, and when, and this is, and I see this at this, which is a really, the big thing is when people are saying the. Self is illusory. The eye is illusory, this sense of self. And because that's a much more, I'm writing. I've never seen it. So just, it, let me try to look, it's not there.

So I've never had the sense of self and it's not there and I don't see the need for it to be there. Just kind of jump over there and then the shit comes in and you know, I'm off on the story. But, yeah, just start with, I'm, for me starting with I'm that is what is there if nothing is thought about. It's a positive thought. And there's no sense of self in that. Do you want to look at that? Maybe later. I haven't seen that before. At some point. But Bo has explained it in the Spiel, the very thing that you say, the illusion of self.

He says, when you are born and you are a young child or a baby, there is one thing that is undeniable throughout the life. There is the sense of presence. And now this very sense of presence, the knowing that I am, what I am is a different story. But the knowing that, that I am, it gets obscured by conditioning, by labeling. I label myself. I'm the person. I'm the person. You are the person. And with that comes all the other tendencies. Like Bob is saying now, the entity that I believe myself to be takes over, takes credit for the capacity of seeing. Now the entity thinks it is seeing.

It's not the pure consciousness or presence seeing. It's now the entity that I am. So this is the primary identification. I am and that sense of being, of awareness, that undeniable sense of presence, it will never go away. But they put upon it this tight jacket of I am a person, I am the body, I'm a female body and I'm unworthy or whatever. This is the cage made of concepts. And this one can be questioned. And this one can be shed like the skin of the snake. And now the sense of presence is unobscured by the contraction, by this tightness of I'm not comfortable. The world is wrong.

I'm wrong. Now there is no self concern. There is no concern of how the body looks or whatever. Of course there may be functional concerns like I'm hungry, I'm going to go and cook. And that's the functional, just normal functional thoughts. But the idea that I am an entity, a self, something inside the body, inside here or there, that one drops away. But the sense of presence is always there. It's undeniable. It will never go away. The question is, is that sense of presence taken to be an entity or is that just pure life looking through the eyes? Not the eye looking through the eyes, but the life.

Hearing, seeing, pure space experiencing itself as a space of seeing, space of hearing, all those capacities. Nobody is taking credit for them. That's the freedom. That's the ease. That's the effortless living. Doesn't mean that this body mind is not going to be hurt having a toothache, just like the animal body. Doesn't mean that it's not going to be treated. It's not going to be treated. It's not going to be challenged. Doesn't mean that it's not going to get angry. Just like the weather, really. There is a storm outside and there may be a storm inside. But in absence of hanging onto it, it's just not going to last.

It's just going to flow past. So that identification, the misidentification, you said misidentification, that's a very good word. Because actually the seeing through is this identification. It's not that now I am identifying myself with this. I am identifying myself with this space. So I am not the entity now. I am the space. That's still I that is something. It's really just dropping all self concepts. I am nothing. I am not even a space. I don't really care what I am because the I that wants to know, I'm space, I'm nothing, I'm everything. The I that wants to define itself is gone. So there is no question who am I because nobody cares.

But the sense of being, sense of aliveness, that never goes, that is still there. I can't say I am not. I am. What I am, who cares? But I am stays there. Okay. Beauty. Beautiful. That's been awesome, good stuff out of you all. Thanks, Bob. We should have a group hug, mate, or not? Group hug. Hug and patting on the back. Really? One essence is expressing through everyone and mouthing the words and causing the words to come out.