Sailor Kat: Non duality spiel and discussion

I think it's alright, I'll just wipe it a little bit. We may zone out, though. It's gonna be number one. I'm gonna be number three. I've stayed a little bit longer. Dad fell asleep. I don't know how to watch the movie. That's fine. Fifteen hours and five minutes. Yeah, I'm not happy. It's fine. I'm just gonna wait for another day. Especially not in a common age. How old are you since? He's 11, he's 13. He's entering sixth grade. It's our summer vacation now. They just left 90 degree weather. And it's 125. 130. Are we ready? I think we're ready now, guys. We have a little bit over time now, so can we start?

Yes, sorry. Yeah, we can hang out after. We're gonna be quiet. No, no, don't be quiet. Just say a nice so we know each other. No. Tony? Gerard. Tony? Julia. Shana. Yes, so a quick update on Bob. He's doing extremely well. He should be home, we hope, for the end of this week. I'm kind of hoping to push it until Thursday so he can have the meeting. But, of course, he has to be safe. We have to be sure that he's ready for it. But, apart from what the physios are thinking about his readiness to go up and down the stairs, he is doing very well.

He's very ready. He did it behind their back and he did it well. Yes, he walked like 17 steps. He just kind of grabbed the railing and walked with ease. It's like, yeah, he knows his body better than anyone else. So, it's good. Another thing is, I was kind of trying to experiment and do it slightly differently, but it seems like it's not gonna happen. Because I scheduled, I just structured Bob's spiel in the form of questions. And I printed out a few pages of the questions that is actually nice to use for the contemplation and investigation and kind of makes it stand out easier.

But I printed out seven copies and there's more of us and the computer is striking. So, if it will come good, I'll print out more copies. If it doesn't, we just, yeah, whatever, I can read the first one and see what you think about it. Because it's actually the most effective way to embody that is to really look for ourselves, is to really put it in our own words. Because the amount of the teachers you've heard by now is probably enough for five lifetimes. It's really just to hear it once and then look within how much is that applicable, how much is that true. So, Bob usually starts from the question.

I mean, he says, I'm not speaking to anybody. I'm not speaking to any mind. There is no one that can give you anything. There is no one that can teach you anything because there is no one there. But if you put it in a form of question, that's a very, very good question to ask yourself. Do you want to get something? Do you want to gain something? What are you hoping for? What are you looking for? What is it that you actually hope to achieve by listening to these teachings? Do you have any answers? Maybe lose something. It's losing something, not going anything. That's a beautiful, beautiful way to be.

All those questions are going to be a kind of contraction around here. That's all I can really say. Okay. Like what? There's something contracted in these questions. Of course there is. They go around them. Yeah. Just to see what's there. So you are actually avoiding investigation. That's okay. No, no, no. Investigation comes all the time. There's not a sense of agency. So many things to investigate. It's the sense of agency trying to do it. There's some traction. And then there's varying those questions. So there's some resistance to the sense of agency in the questioning. Yeah. They're just invitation. If you don't, just listen to others.

If you don't want to go there, just listen to others. Because it may inspire you. True. If you don't want to go and see, look for yourself. No, no. Investigation does happen anyway. I know. That's what you say. That's right. But you don't like the questions. But they may be helpful for others. Oh, I get that. I get that. Yeah. And then you might actually hear what they find. You don't want to find using questions. They may find something that will be inspiring. That always happens. Yeah. That's good. Yeah. And this answer that you have given, that's already a great place to be. Because usually people are looking for happiness, or looking for liberation, or looking for freedom, for enlightenment, for becoming someone.

Becoming someone in future. Because they don't think we're there yet. And actually losing someone, this is such a beautiful way to put it. Because really, the only difference between you and any so-called sage, or seer, you name it, is one belief. Just one belief. Like, you know, they don't believe in Santa Claus anymore. And in this particular body, it may still play out, and pretend, and look like it's true. Still not true. If it feels like there is an entity running the show, if it feels like, it doesn't mean it's true. When we look at the rainbow, it looks real, too. When we look at the few hundred years ago, people were thinking, Earth was flat.

And it looked real, and everybody believed it. It doesn't mean it's true. So if it feels that there is an entity that is doing things, it doesn't mean it's true. But even to come from the standpoint that you came here to lose that wrong, erroneous belief. That's wonderful. So that's just to investigate and see if the belief really stands up. Because, yeah, that's easy enough. So I see what Bob suggests as the next step. Yeah, he basically tells us, yeah, okay, so he tells us what the reality is. In different traditions, he points out that we're starting from the fact that if there is no time, if there is no future, and if there is no entity, even to be lost, it means that already as it is, and at this moment, you are that.

You are that life essence, because everything is that. Like we are saying, everything has the being, and everything is that. So I have the being, there is a being, there is a sense of presence. So that sense of presence, Bob says, is that. And he shows it through different traditions. Like he shows it, in Hinduism they say, the reality is Satchitananda, and the illusion is Nama Rupa. Satchitananda is awareness of being, blissful awareness of being. Or presence of awareness, existence, consciousness, bliss. And now he asks, are you not existing? So you can't deny your existence. You can't say I'm not existing, because even to say it you have to exist first.

So you can't deny the fact that you are. What you are is a different story, but you are, you exist. So you also know about it, otherwise you couldn't even admit it. So there is a knowing of existence. And also, when the knowing of existence is all there is, and there is no destruction towards it, it is blissful. If there is no thinking going on, there is no problems. That awareness of being is peaceful, is still, is blissful. If I conceive of problems, when I think about something, then we are kind of, conceptually, live that pure awareness of being, conceptually, because in reality we can't, this is what we are.

So, we are already here, we already exist. We already know we exist. And when we don't think about it, we can feel the joy of being. So that Sakshitananda is already fully present right here, right now. Nothing needs to be added, nothing needs to be taken away. Seemingly, there would be an individual claiming that existence, but that's a Nama Rupa, that's the illusion. Hinduism calls it Nama Rupa, which is name and form. And it says that everything that you can label, put a shape of form on it, is the manifestation, is illusion, is changing, passing phenomena. It comes and goes. The persona, or the conceptual image that claims the being, that I am whatever, woman or Polish or whatever, that one is Nama Rupa.

This is a fiction. This is a belief. And the same applies to the world, to the reality. I'm looking out, everything has the being. And there is a pure knowing about this being. But I'm started learning labels and deselecting objects from the stream of sensations and call them names. This is Cher. This is Tony. This is again bringing back the name and form and asserting the reality of separate things. And this is done because of the construction of this projector here. It gives the life through the eyes. It shines the attention on everything. And that very life, that intelligence energy, that life of knowing being, asserts reality of things so they become real.

And in the same way, the co-creation of reality, the projecting and receiving, is going on all the time. And that's called Maya or illusion. Because that is changing. That is constantly transient. Like whatever the content of seeing, the forms, they're changing. The images, the thoughts, my own opinion about myself. This is changing over time. This is not real. Maybe she'll get your water sometime. Beautiful. Yeah, so this is just to point out that this message has been around forever. It's not that we are a bunch of lunatics saying things that are completely counterintuitive, or we're taking drugs or something, telling you that reality is invisible, and what's visible is fiction or illusion.

It sounds like a lunatic speech. But the very same message is the base of all tradition, and it has been around for thousands of years. It has been around as a base of Buddhism, where they say that the only reality, just this and nothing else, is ever-fresh, non-conceptual presence awareness. Nothing else. Just non-conceptual awareness of presence. Ever-fresh. It's all there is. Just this, nothing else. Nothing else is real. That's what Buddhism tells us. Great perfection, Dzogchen say, is non-conceptual awareness. That's it. The rest is a dream. The rest is the reality that is created and projected outside, through this bio-computer, the way it was conditioned.

Oh, thank you. So Christianity is pointing into it as well. Hello. Hi. Christianity does it in different words. It uses the omnipresence, omnipotence, omniscience. You, you may, you may not read the nation. You know that. I'm just calling a call. So if you feel like you need something, it's going to be for both of you. Don't listen to it. Oh, okay. Well, I've got about 50 dollars. I'll change it. Oh, you'll change it. Yeah. You have to say it? Hi. Hi. Hi. Hi. Hi. Hi. Hi. Hi. Hi. Hi. Hi. Hi. So it doesn't really feel when we are thinking about Christianity, about being a sinner, having mortal sins, and being separate, and needing to beg to not go to Hell, that the base of it is also the same non-dual message, that omnipotence, omnipresence, omniscience is all there is.

It's like, what is really omnipotence? omnipotence is total power so if is total it means it's total it means this is the same power that is running the universe it's creating the galaxies is popping thoughts in my head total power so there is no other power than this the same power that is making me speak the same power that is making you listen or see the same power is the total power omnipotence so how can you not be already that you are that total power so even Christianity apart from whatever was piled upon the concepts and ideas where it kind of get off the track with the social demands for the for the structural control on the core of it is the very same thing omnipotence is a total power omnipresence it's a total being like there is a being and everything has the being and that being is one everything that has a being is having that one being it's like that one and same life is fueling every being so this this is what we are this is what I am and I am presenting myself to myself in multitude of forms one being in many bodies omniscience the knowing the total knowing in Hinduism we are talking about knowing of being is bliss but there is also knowing the consciousness knowing of forms of shapes and patterns that's also knowing knowing Maya knowing just knowing in Christianity it doesn't differentiate it's a complete knowing it doesn't say what's real what's illusory just pure knowing omniscience and that's all there is there is nothing apart from it if they call it God there is nothing apart from God so this is this is really to just bring up the credibility Bob likes to put out things in context to actually see that he didn't really come up with anything new it's been around forever so it can be fully trustworthy for aeons people were pointing out and there was always few here and there who would grasp it or who would hear it and again the pointer is is uh is talking about the past and the time so it's only used for the sake of pointing because the past and the time is only present when i recall it it's only here and now so right now i'm creating two thousand years of christianity two and a half thousand years of buddhism right in this moment and by asserting its reality by collective belief we make the past real as if it happened as if it was the past is mind the time is mind is there a past if we don't take a thought if we don't think about it did anything ever happened before this moment if i don't recall it or if the device here is broken a short circuit of something and i get alzheimer or brain damage if i don't know who i am because some something went wrong there in the head is there a past well yeah in books in theories in other people's beliefs yes but in this immediate experience because ultimately the realization is the realization of the immediate experience right here and right now apart from whatever has been put upon it like it is really about going back to the basic screen about that to that what everything appears on because this is on because this is the satchitananda this is the being consciousness bliss this is omnipresence omnipotence omniscience ever fresh non-conceptual presence awareness or cognizing emptiness that that are all labels none of it is that but that very labels they point out that this basic screen this intelligent knowing energy intelligence energy is what i am and it is what everything is so if we go back to that one essence and we realize that how could i be anything other than that if everything is that like how am i different than everything else like the body is different the set of thoughts may seemingly be different different but they are transient phenomena they're coming and going the body comes and go thoughts come and go so what am i when the body was little when i was a child the sense of presence and knowing about presence was there apart from that there was knowing about being little baby not the knowing about the content i have now content was different self-image was different but what was the same what was always there something that didn't change since something that we could extract from every singular experience as the base that was always there i can't be my thought i am i can't be my image of myself i can't be my body because those are all changing so who is there to see the change who knows about the body changing who knows about the thoughts changing what is that knowing so this is this is the invitation to actually see beyond the thinking because thinking stream is being known in which light is it being known what is the knowing of it and again for the mind this is and we have to forgive ourselves that's what we all start with as babies as children we were conditioned to use the mind to learn symbolic language to start to replace the objects with symbols to talk about thoughts to think about symbols and we were acknowledged for it we got approval for it love for it we were smart so very quickly that was a beautiful way to find a great amount of excitement and a great amount of variety to just focus on thinking start visualizing future start analyzing past understanding became became started giving us false sense of security now if i understand it i know what it is i'm safe now when with the conceptual thinking with the idea that i am a separate object and everything else is a separate object the knowing intellectual knowing gives me security and it also let me escape the drama i can defocus if something bad or something traumatic or something very emotional is going on i can very quickly get distract myself with a little story in my head i can look at something else so this device here is completely stole the show because it's such a brilliant device here is the life essence here is just just the way if you think if you remember you wake up in the morning and there are sounds maybe some sort of a sounds or whatever before you even open your eyes the slowly comes back some maybe sensation of the body and then you open the eyes very often it's like ah especially if you travel a lot oh where am i what's going on the download didn't happen yet the computer didn't kick in fully yet so there is a presence there is a being and on top of it there are ideas ah oh my god it's monday i have to go to work or ah it's vacation i can sleep in and but the memory kicks in the conceptualizing the thinking capacity kicks in and steals the show right away no attention goes to the awareness of presence no attention goes to the basic screen of being because this is so exciting it's got so many nice movies so many interesting images there's so much going on there i can think about myself about others i can worry about so many things and i'm living in multi-universes because every thought is a creation of a new separate universe when i have a thought my husband doesn't love me oh my gosh i'm inviting myself for a great trip into a universe that has is full of emotions of of details like what a device what a wonderful computer game like you can embody any sort of idea you want so no wonder it became an addiction no wonder nothing else stand up as the means of entertainment like now somebody comes and sits here and tell you that you know what it's much more entertaining to focus on nothing how does it sound for the mind the basic screen when there is nothing going on it's just emptiness isn't it wonderful and mind says what you've got all this colorful beautiful visions or this extremely deep traumatic emotional events that nothing has ever happened to anyone like what have you endured and now now you have the invitation yeah how about how about just this boredom complete zero nothing of course mind is gonna go insane like give me anything give me some destruction give me food drugs whatever it has to be a variety so this is way this is where the pointer comes leave the mind outside the door leave the mind with your shoes mind is not gonna get it mind is the computer appearing in the space what does the computer know about the space it it only knows its kind of inner world it knows its files and folders and stuff and then of course it can project or build up the illusion of the world but what does it know about the power that is that is electricity that is switching it on and off what does it know about someone who operates it it's limited so that individual that mind can have absolutely no glimpse of the reality because reality shows up when that curtain of the mind falls off when mind goes off off the way with the ideas that are yeah but emptiness is boring it's nothing in it for me when that mind moves off the way the reality shines shines through and this is where the game really really start unfolding the inside start flowing and then suddenly you see how moment to moment the whole universe comes into existence using thoughts using the belief using the attention how it is all dreamlike and how absolutely fabulous how fascinating it is and this is what you the life is doing moment to moment so what sort of story can even compete with realizing the source of all the stories but if you look through the conceptual thinking through the vibrating into opposites mind because that's also that's a useful pointer that bob is using to actually to actually see how the mind operates how it only goes between you know it has a little bracket you know dark light and everything between you know all the shades of gray but it's only within certain limitation limitations of interrelated opposites it's either good or bad pleasant painful happy sad and everything is judged within that scale within that range so in the totality all the ranges and scales are just a minute expressions in that basic screen so what can the mind and its little judgmental evaluating sort of uh whatever what can they know about the screen on which they appear so they just uh you guys so sweet yeah so that's uh so that's the story yeah i have a lot of other questions for contemplation but if the computer goes up i'll just bring it in because really answering those questions for yourself one by one moment by moment and seeing how this is true like any i'll just pick any um how about nature does it relate to anything the idea of relating when bob is talking about relating when the when the baby is born the experience the baby has is just pure being with some sort of waving sensations floating through the awareness different sensations it doesn't even it can't even distinguish sensations of touch from smell or eyes it can't even see what it can't deselect the face from the environment from the background until it learns to actually until it learns to pick and recognize the pattern the repeated pattern comes up and that one is being asserted and later on is being labeled and it becomes solid and suddenly it becomes more and more permanent and then the reality gets its shape is believed is repeatedly fed with attention or energy of belief and then as it progresses the labeling conceptualizing we label naturally as children we are encouraged to use the concepts to when uh when everything is replaced with the symbol to be able to be conceptualized we we replace the water with the with the word we replace every other thing with the word to be able to operate on the symbolic language naturally we replace the sense of presence with the word also so what's the word we replace it it would be the word i am but then what can you say about it how can you relate to the plain sense i am it doesn't really go that far so throughout the throughout the age as it gets attention as it gets the energy of beliefs it builds up to a solid image it builds up with every past memory of experience that is related to that i am in this particular location so suddenly this i am now owns the body and this body is growing with it so this i am owns the capacity of seeing hearing this i am got the name got the shape form it got the whatever the female body male body and it becomes a thing and with age if it's not investigated it becomes more and more rigid to the point that it even owns beliefs like i'm christian if you're muslim i'm gonna be fighting you because this is me christian this is my this this is my identity so that identity becomes rigid people fight for their beliefs people kill each each other for their beliefs they feel insecure they do a lot to get some sort of a relief from that confined insecurity because obviously when the totality what we are limits itself to a form a rigid object made of added experiences and thoughts and images of course it feels tight of course it feels contracted and of course it feels insecure secure so it starts trading for approval it starts trading for love or recognition and it becomes unhappy relating everything to that conceptual image relating everything to that conceptual image is the beginning of the psychological suffering doesn't really happen so when buddha is talking about relieving from suffering liberation from suffering he's precisely talking about liberation from psychological suffering from the eye that has a problem yeah yourself no problem absolutely absolutely yeah psychological suffering i'm inferior i'm unworthy they don't like me they are talking rubbish about me this is all about relating to the me so or to the other because that implies it to me oh yeah of course you took my blah blah blah yeah if there is a me there is another and if i am the doer and i'm responsible for my action then i'm not going to fulfill my potential i could have always done better i could have done more so i'm a failure how how sweet is that and then not only i'm judging myself i'm judging others because there is a conviction here that this set of thoughts this conceptual image made of past events and experiences it has the power it's not the total power anymore is the power that is trapped in that in that form made of beliefs and concepts and you get the uh naturally get the illusion uh that somehow or other you can make it better or you can make it right and it's a hundred percent preoccupation preoccupation with this you can never properly relax it becomes a total a total a total takeover so true so true yes because if i am the if i'm the individual if i am the person this is and i am not a part of totality anymore you

I'm not the total power.

It's not the total power that is breathing me. It's I do it. I do the breathing. So I screw up. I can fix myself. I'll keep trying. I'll blame others because I want to stay innocent, so it's your fault. And there's also in there that innate knowing that there's something wrong with this and it's really not going to work because you really know that it's pretty hopeless. deep down. But you have to keep on trying. What else can you do? You don't know anything else. Exactly. That's right. Being trapped in the mind. So you're trapped in this conflict, in this underlying conflict that can never dissolve itself apart from going back to the screen.

Totally. This is how perfect the trap of the mind is. It's absolutely perfect. If, if any sort of action thinking and relating comes from that confined golden cage of the mind and idea of what I am and that I am separate, there is no way out. There's no way out. People are born into these beliefs and they are dying with these beliefs and they don't even, well, they may have a glimpses because down below, well, they still are that. But whether they believe in that Santa Claus running the show or they don't believe it, it's still life. It's still life beating their heart. They may think it is me.

I am contracting and expanding my heart. But it's not. This is being delusional. This is still life doing it. But yes, it becomes really, really unhappy. Suddenly, because this is all about me. So I'm preoccupied with very, very important issues in my life, my job. I need to pay bills. That's so important. Oh, I need to have relationships. That's so important. Because this is about me. I don't care if my friend, whatever, have her bills paid. You know, maybe she does, she doesn't. Or people in India, I don't care. It's about me. So now that preoccupation with me, that self-obsession, that relating everything to me.

Everyone is thinking about me. Everyone is judging me. Nobody gives a shit about me. But I believe that yes, they do. They have nothing else to do. They go home and they just obsess about me. And you don't quite know what they're obsessing about because you don't quite know yourself, obviously. So that's like total tension and anxiety and never getting anywhere and trying to. And they judge, you know, they judge. They think they're better than me. And what can I do to make it, make it, make the presentation better? Well, how can I be nicer for them? Maybe if I buy them a gift, they will be nicer and they will like me.

Maybe if I, you know, get a really good appearance, a really good appearance, and read that book that's, you know. Oh, yes. I impress them with what I know. Oh, you know what? I'll impress them with what, where have I been? How many gurus I met? How many ashrams, how many retreats I've done? I'll impress them with that. How many places I've dropped or how many passions have disappeared. Exactly. But the bad news is they don't really care about my experiences because they are in same self-obsession about themselves. They want to impress me or whoever with their retreats and their books and their experiences, their story, because the relating is just so common.

So, say that's dropped for a little while, in a really quiet time, and you can drop the thoughts briefly and somehow or other have some experience of the screen and see the manifestation sort of like happening briefly and the thoughts coming from there by it's, you know, just happening. And, but then the thoughts, you know, the mire or whatever takes, takes over. And, but it's like that knowledge is still there, that memory of that screen. And, but it's like, yeah, covered. And it's like, sometimes you can sort of feel like there's a screaming going on, like, take notice of this, you know. And because you know that that's, you know, what's truth, that you can't really, that how do you, how do you stay there, you know, how do you, how do you not get taken over by that, yeah.

You don't stay there. Because the you that wants to stay there is the you that is still preoccupied. See, see how subtly it comes. I want to stay there. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. The truth is that ocean, that depth of the ocean, that presence of awareness or awareness of being is always there, whether the mind knows about it or doesn't. In fact, mind doesn't. The knowing always comes from the ocean. And it's not, it's not the knowing about something. It's not the knowing about clarity or absence of clarity or thoughts. It's just pure knowing, moment to moment. Yeah, yeah. Have you stopped trying or, yeah.

It feels like, and I heard the nice descriptions that, you know, the awakening, the moment of realizing that everything is that one essence, that patterning, shaping, forms and vibrating into myriads of different contents, moment to moment, even having the realizations of glimpses or having glimpses of no self, when you're totally at peace and at ease with all there is, you're totally relaxed and happy. There is no relating going on. There is no idea that I should be different or world should be different or something else is missing. Everything is just perfectly fine. Those are glimpses of no self. And even that, even those moments are, you know, they're just, they're just fleeting moments.

It feels like there is me having an experience of no self or there is me having the experience of, of no world or having the recognition of everything being just, just the experiencing. But it's not really, even those glimpses are the glimpses of the consciousness and not of me. It's like when Bob says, and he's quoting some ancient scriptures, the peace is where the mind is not. So one could say the glimpse is when the I is not. When the I, the relating to this conceptual image is of the picture, the reality shines forth as it always did. Sorry. Were you trying to say how do you get yourself focused when you, um, like other things happen and then you just want to bring your, your, like your awareness to the present?

Were you trying to ask that before? Um, it's just, uh, it just seems like when, when, when, when there's that glimpse and, um, and it's before the thoughts and, uh, but then, and then you see the thoughts coming, coming out of this emptiness. Um, uh, yeah, but, but you tend, you tend to just be lost in the thoughts that they, they just run on. Um, and all, and all, all sort of the whole world, you know, it's just, you're taken over by all, all, all, all the stuff. Yeah, yeah. And, and that, that, that, that, that really important, I mean, these, the, the, uh, what, it, uh, is this completely, um, uh, lost contact with.

Oh, but it's not really, I suppose. But it feels like it is. It feels, it feels this way because the habit of, of relating everything to the mind and filtering everything to the mind is still strong. So yes, oh gosh, I remember it for years. I had, I had the glimpses and I had awakenings and I had prolonged periods of no self, like for a couple of weeks at a time. It was like, oh my gosh. Of course, of course, when there is no self, there is not even a me saying there is, I have it. The I have it, the taking credit comes with the mind when mind kicks in.

Yeah. So the baby is not saying I am the baby until the conceptualizing, the, the thinking kicks in. Without that stream of thinking, it is always there. The, the, uh, so what you can do, you can't do anything. Yeah. It's the consciousness that has to wake up to itself and it has to come up from that consciousness realization that, ah, the stream of thinking is just a stream of thinking. Yeah. It's nothing else. It's just a, it's just a noise. Yeah. You can, you can, you can sort of relax, you know, thinking it's all hopeless and this is how it's going to be. And maybe, you know, something might happen to me, like Kate, Kate or Bolly, you know, can't do much about it.

Yeah. So have a cup of tea or, you know, have a little bit of that. And that stuff you talked about earlier would be, yeah, that's really a good, ah, no. Yeah, it's really about just putting your heart totally, completely into it. Just getting one pointer at a time. Ask yourself that question. Sit with the question. Don't look for conceptual answer. Because the thoughts will come and tell you, oh yeah, of course you are a person, you are individual. You know, when someone slap you in the face, you feel it. Somebody else doesn't. How can you be connected? Yeah, if you want to listen to your thinking, well, fine.

I mean, not that you have any saying, you know. Many people, they live and die like this and they don't even, they don't even conceive of the idea to look beyond the thinking. And that's perfect because this intelligence expresses us as everything. It expresses us as everyone, as the one who wakes up, the one who doesn't, as a chicken, as a cat, as a tree. And it's millions of versions of itself. Showing itself to itself. Maya is a play. It's a divine game. For me, one of the precious ones has been the, it's like the description cut gave of waking up in the morning. So every tiny moment that you really spotted that the head just jerked, my God, I didn't do that.

That was just out of nowhere. And I respect all those moments to the max because my awakening is very slow like that. And so when that point, and I just noticed that point it comes up, you know. When it does come up, you know, to really rest in the, or just respect those amazing moments, what they are like. Like, oh my God, I jumped out of bed. I was not going to go to the toilet yet this morning, you know. I'm standing. Wow, that just happened. And I guess your people who drive, you know. Oh my God, I've just driven into the garage. I didn't notice.

Yeah. Yeah. And not just, you know, take it for granted. Those are becoming aware of it. Yeah. But those are the real moments that you really know you didn't do it. And there was no you present. Yeah. Yeah. There's probably millions of them for everybody really. Yeah. Why did I come into this room? I had one of those last night. I just couldn't remember. Yeah. Yeah. And you didn't stop to actually put a new story back in afterwards. Well, I did. I went away and then all of a sudden I realised. I do that a lot. Okay. Bill is sending love to everyone. He just says, what a handsome group.

Thank you, Bill. Hi, Bill. Where is he, by the way? Where are you, Bill? Yeah. Somewhere on the beach probably. He's up there. Yeah. He's up there. Yeah. When's he coming back? He will be there for Bob's birthday. Oh, okay. People are not so handsome in Birmingham. He's a guy that often used to sit in that chair. Oh, okay. And then Bob's line of talk. Yeah. And he's a beautiful speaker. He's really... Yeah, doesn't he? Yes. He's animated. He really, really grasped the message. And the way he explains it is really thorough. Like, he will really get one pointer and he will take it to the core.

Like, he likes the one with the blue water. Right, right. He says, yeah, because, you know, it's so counterintuitive when someone tells you that the reality is nothing and everything is Maya. Like, come on. It doesn't seem this way. It feels like what's real is the solidity of things and space is not even significant. It's not even worthy of looking at it. And that's how it is. That's how it appears to be. And that's the perfect trap. But when Bill brings up the idea of blue water, he says, he actually often uses it to battle the idea that it still feels like there is a me.

It feels that there is a separate person in there, an entity. Yeah, it feels this way. Of course it feels this way because the body has the sense of location. And the body is moving and the seeing is changing with the movement. That's how it has been designed. But is the separate entity anything that has any power? Anything that is separate from anything else? No, it is just like the blue water. We look at the ocean and the water looks blue, but we grab the glass and we look through it. There's no blueness in it. It's completely transparent. It doesn't have any color. But then we pour it back and it still feels blue.

So the same with the person. I look within. Is there any dwarf there? Choosing thoughts or making the digestion in the body? Is there any body inside that does anything? Nope. Completely transparent like the water in the sea. Nothing there. And yet the sense of location feels like there is. Just like you jump in a car and you drive and there is a sense of location. You don't say you are a car because of that. So the body is like a coat. I like to play with Bob's analogy when he says you think you are this body. So look at this. You say my body.

My body. So you are not the body. You are the owner of the body. Just like you say my coat. My car or my house. So the body is like a coat. You are wearing it. Or like a house. You are leaving it. In a way. Now you are not it. Sorry on that. My way of becoming really aware of it. Looking at a corp. A dead body. My mum just passed away. And she is not the only one. But once you. The life force is out. Yeah. It is just an empty shell. That's it. Beautiful. Right. It is just an empty shell. And that to me is giving me a lot of realization.

That this is just a suit. Exactly. It is not us. My dad died a year ago. Yep. When I went to go see his corpse. Yep. That was my same thing. I was like wow. If that's not true. If that's not true. If it made me think that when I die I want an open basket. Yeah. Just for the benefit of everyone else. Just put a little sign on it that says look at this. You think you're the body. Or you think she's the body. Yep. So then you know when he died. Actually I just exited an aircraft. Yeah. Coming from Australia. With jet lag.

You know he knew before me. And he was trying to. Well I figured it out. Yeah. That's the best why. And then. Well no. I figured it out because. He said call your sister. Call your sister. Yeah. My father died. Yeah. Wow. And then that shock. But then that. What helped me so much. Was I kept saying to myself. Can I find where he and I are separate. Mmm. Can I find where. And then you can just ask yourself. I don't know when your mom passed. I'm sorry for your loss. It's only two weeks ago. Yeah. Yeah. So you could just keep saying to yourself.

Can you. I mean allow yourself to feel the grief. And the sadness. And all that stuff. And at the same time. Also remember to ask yourself. Can. Since you got to see a corpse. Which is great. Mmm. Okay. Can you find where you're separate from her. And also what helped me. Was just realizing that. Whatever I'm saying as him. Is a concept. Yeah. And so am I. And it seems almost impersonal. And shallow to call your dad. Or your mom. That's right. A concept. Someone you adored so much. Yeah. Really. That's what it is. And. You know. It really helped. Yeah. You know. A lot.

And what Cas was saying. It's because. We've been brought up. From baby. To recognize this. As reality. That condition is so strong. But when it comes in. You're older. And you have a sort of. An awakening. To show that. You know. This is not real. What's life about. I mean. When I started questioning them. When I was in the mid thirties. What. What's this life about. It's not what I see. So. Then. When I started. You started to see the core. You know. Like a beloved one. Because it's. You know. That's when it really. Makes sense to you. Yeah. Then you question it. You know.

Then you look like. You did it. In fact. Unless you. That realization comes in. It's hard. Because it. Like you said before. As you turn around. Everything appears to you. So it's hard. To detach from that. Yeah. And realize that. You're. You're. You're. You're not that. You're none of that. But once you see that. And besides the fact that we all have. You know. Touch. Every now and then. Of awakening. When I see your core. It's so different. It really is. Even then. I cannot. Once the. The. My mum died. I could not touch her anymore. I felt rubbery. But certainly from before. Didn't feel.

Her. Didn't look like her. Didn't even look like her. No. Exactly. Yeah. Doesn't mean look like her. She looks completely different. And. The body's not just called. But rubbery. It feels like rubber. Stiff. Well the first thought in my mind was. Now I know what I call them stiffs. Yeah. Yeah. And that's. To me. Like. You know. I've read books. But on Buddhism. They actually sleep. Go morgues. And sleep. With dead people. Purposely to accept death. And see death. For itself. And I said. Oh. I can do that. But. Once you go through. With someone close to you. And you. Like. I was with my mum.

She died. The whole time. Um. You see the process. And everything. And. It just makes you more aware of. Where you're at. Yeah. In this organisation. I think. Yeah. For me indeed. Yeah. For me indeed. There's another way that I suppose. Which. Perhaps. Might. Help to me. I think. Is. Intention. And. And. Just stopping. Just realising. Do I really want to get. You know. Lost in this. In this stuff. That's. I know. A hundred percent. It's never going to. Bring. Satisfaction. It's always going to bring frustration. And so on. And so on. And. And. Or. Do you really want to. Be kind to yourself. And.

And. Come back. And sit down. And just be with. With that. At least. Have that knowledge underlying it. Which do you want. Which do I want. Exactly. Do you want to go to distractions. And entertain yourself with thinking. Well. Go for it. Yeah. Fantastic. But there is more on the stage. It's more to see. It's more to life. It's more to life. Than entertainment. From the head. And just living out this habit. Yeah. And. And. Deluding yourself. That you can. You can tweak it in some particular way. That it's going to work out. Yeah. Totally. Also. It's actually nice to look at the. Like Mary.

You said it just now. That you know. To see how the. Sense of location in the body. It just kind of. Feels like there is a projector. Walking projector. Like everything that is. That this. This whole device. With the cameras installed. It actually. The life comes through it. And. As it walks. It's like. The basic screen is emptiness. Is stillness. Is space. So. Every. Body. Has its own. Private. Separate. In which. Has different meaning. The seeing. Hearing. Is filtered by. Of course. My eyes. May be weaker. Than yours. So. My seeing. Will be different. I mean. The content. Of seeing. May be the same. From.

Viewed from. Viewed from. Different angle. But even. The capacities. We have. Different capacities. And. This. The. Whole body. With. Whatever is. Joint. You know. Like. Eyes. And. The scene. Whatever is in. The gaze. Is part of. The projector. And. It's energy. Going out. With the hearing. The same. So. As I'm moving. All that world. World. That is. Received. And projected. In and out. Of the body. All that stream. Of energy. Coming from. Different holes. Is moving. With me. And. So is. With everyone. So. Actually. To realize. That. The. The body. With. It's seeing. Can be known. So. I can't be the body. Or the seeing.

Because. I'm the knowing of it. So this. Whatever. The body. And whatever. It sees. Is a one thing. Like. Seeing. Is one thing. There is not. Object. And subject. And process. They're all connected. They're all joined in. Without the eyes. There is no seeing. Without the seeing. There is no seeing. So they are one. So. As I'm moving. About my life. I'm moving. With whatever is attached. To my eyes. With the seeing. Attached to my eyes. With the sounds. Attached to my ears. They come in. Content is changing. But the capacity of hearing. Moves with me. The capacity of moving. The capacity of smelling. All that.

Biocomputer. With the capacity. Spreading around it. Is. How the world. Is actually. Interacting. And all these different. Biocomputers. With different projections. With different. Downloads. Downloads. Yes. They're moving about. And interacting. And now. If the game. Is seen. Like this. Is. It is already. Much. Much. Closer. And it's already. Much. Much. More. Than the content. Of thoughts. Like. What's so. Exciting. Now. The thought. Can tell me. That I'm too tall. Or I'm too. Too fat. I mean. Who cares. If you see. The reality. For what it is. If you see. The thoughts. For what they are. What can they really offer. What kind of entertainment. They can offer.

Comparing. To. Realizing. How the universe. Is being created. Moment. To moment. With the past. The past. Is part. Of the projecting. Of that projector. Of that receiver. Transmitter. Thing. Moment. To moment. It has. The. Capacity. Of storing. The memories. That can be recalled. Right now. And I can. Hold on. The story. Of my life. On my back. And that. Constitutes. And solidifies. Conceptual image. And that. Takes a lot. Of attention. To relate. To that. Conceptual image. That attention. Is trapped. In that. Construct. You know. Instead of walking. As life. Looking at life. Nobody's looking. But there is seeing. Nobody's doing anything. But there is doing.

Happening. There is no contraction. In there. Just walk about. The life. And see. See what's changing. See what's going on. Now. As a person. I'm maintaining. The. The reference point. And that. Maintaining. The reference point. It takes a lot of power. It takes a lot of. Life. A lot of attention. To. To. Translate. The pure seeing. Into something. Relative. To me. That's a lot of. Computing capacity. Being wasted. A lot of. Processes. So the first thing that happens when that seeming persona and the seeming relating drops off, suddenly there is, oh gosh, I don't even need to sleep that much anymore, I'm so awake, I'm so refreshed.

Because I'm not investing the energy to translate pure being into something that is related to me, into something that I like or I don't like or I had it before, I'm worried about. The self-obsession goes away. Nothing is about me, it's just life. Whatever comes up, cat comes, it's hungry, okay, we'll feed the cat. And then next thing, I'm not doing it, it's just life, using the different points in consciousness to play. It's simple. What's massively consuming for me is the imaginary checklist that keeps popping up and then they worry about already having done it wrong, as if I'm in the future already having done it wrong.

And so, yeah, it just takes up so much energy, the checklist, the checklist, it's not about planning, it's not about free will or anything, it's just about this checklist that pops up for a moment and the fears that it's been done wrong, even though that's now. So what's on your, what's on your checklist? Oh, there's the main things I've offered to do to people that I can't really do, usually dead ends for them as well, so it becomes a block and just, there's a particular bunch for this pattern and they're becoming clearer and clearer, but sometimes the intellectuals seeing how stupid it is doesn't drop it off, sometimes it does and it's getting to the bottom of it now, it's starting to exhaust itself somewhat, but it's amazing how much energy it takes up.

Yeah, especially when you're quite hypervigilant and it's very persistent, yeah, there's a real safety mechanism built into it, fear built into it, it's a very, you know, about dissolving to nothing, this is probably one of the most significant feature of Bob's style of pointing. See how he actually invites us to look at different parts of the experiencing and investigate till it dissolves to nothing, he says, look at the body, what is the body made of? It's made of different elements, water, air, fire, matter, can you separate yourself from elements, can you stop breathing? Like this body is not separate from the air, it's feeding on, it's almost, it's almost, mostly, most of it is water, it has to be refilled, the matter, the food has to be refilled, so the body is part of an environment, it kind of, you can dissolve it to the environment, it's not really separate.

And if that's not enough, look even closer, look to the nature of elements, the nature of fire or the nature of water and see how those elements are also just a vibrating pattern of energy. Like what is atom or subatomic particle? It's an energy, it's pure potentiality, if it is witnessed or observed, it becomes something. But apart from that, all the elements that body is made of are as pure potentiality, it's the vibrating pattern of energy, it's nothing at all, it's cognizing emptiness. Now he says the same about the mind, you say, I am my mind, okay, show me the mind, is there anything such a thing as mind?

Like how does it look like? Does it have any shape, form or pattern? What is it? Mind is just thought, one thought at a time, a bundle of thoughts, or computing capacity, whatever you define it. But what is thought? Thought is vibration. Thought is like a subtle sound, he says, like word is a sound, but when you think the word and you don't say it, it kind of feels like much more subtle. But it's still a vibration, it's still vibration of energy, it's still nothing. So everything really, whatever we look at, and we look deep enough, we look close enough, it is nothing vibrating into everything.

Nothing vibrating into thinking, nothing vibrating into a body. And of course, fed by life essence, energy or belief or attention or intelligence or life, whatever we want to call it. So the body can be dissolved back to nothing when it's looked closer. The thought can be dissolved back to nothing when it's looked closer. Conceptual image or the me is a bundle of thoughts. So naturally, it can be dissolved back to nothing. There is no such a thing as the me, a separate entity. It is a bundle of ideas that are being believed and sustained by that belief. What can't be denied, dissolved to nothing, is the sense of presence.

So we are back to the basic screen. Presence of awareness, awareness of presence. This is something that can't be denied. This is the matter or the essence or the source of which, this is the ocean which is waving. This is the emptiness that is becoming a form, like Buddhists say. Emptiness is form, form is emptiness. Or like Bob says, the emptiness vibrating into patterns and forms. So if we start looking at the reality this way, and we start investigating, and we actually start acknowledging it. And now, from this perspective, from perspective of recognizing that this changing nature of phenomena, and seeing them for what they are, just changing, passing phenomena, and what's unchanging is the being, the awareness of presence.

That is what matters. That is what is worthy of attention. That is what is fully reliable. That is reality. That is that never changes. From this perspective, when I'm back in touch with the source, or I'm basically uninterested, the conceptual image doesn't take the energy anymore, there's nothing in there, there's nothing looking, yet this is seeing. There's nothing, there's no self-interest, there's no self-obsession, there's no self-involvement. Now, the life appears itself to itself. I am nothing. And everything else is also nothing. Because, as we could see a moment ago, the nature of everything, if you look closer enough, can be brought back to what it is.

It's a vibrating pattern of energy. The emptiness vibrating into forms. Seemingly so. Because nothing can't even vibrate. So, it is completely illusory. It's a maya. How important is it? What important is now gonna be whether I'm gonna have a job in ten years. My father's in a hospital too and I wish him very very well. But from that perspective is absolutely nothing that I can do or he can do or anyone. It's just what life presents to itself and all you can do instead of having a judgment or having an idea or having imagination or having obsession about it is take it moment by moment as it is.

So when you, I've always taken the nothing, nothing to be the relative to someone, so the key word being seeming, so the key word really in all of that, because it can be confusing I think as to what the context is, to be the opposite of nothing, nothing, to be thinging. So if there's no thinging going on, is that kind of what you mean or do you mean something that's more to do with the dissolution of manifestation? Well, you know, if the thinking is going on, it doesn't matter, it's recognized. It's naming, naming, I mean I always take thinging the opposite of no thing to be naming or nama or relating to a person, so then everything becomes bounded and named.

So there's no labelling, you just got this, right? Yeah, so what the ocean is doing is waving. Sometimes it's quiet and calm, sometimes it's stormy, sometimes it's a lot of labelling going on, sometimes a lot of thinking, sometimes not much thinking. It doesn't matter. It doesn't matter what the ocean is doing. It does its job. Same with the mind. It does its job. The recognition comes from beyond the mind. So whether the mind is quiet or is noisy, whether it is labelling or is not, recognition comes from beyond the mind. But when the labelling isn't happening, it seems to feel like, because I still think that's all relative.

Yes. It's really just what the mechanism can take on. The thing is that where is the energy going? Because if there is still a lot of involvement in the mind, and the labelling and thinking is happening, all attention is focused in the mind. So there's not much left for seeing, hearing, tasting, touching and recognizing. So basically, this is that seeming trap, being trapped in the ego, being trapped in the suffering. So it's more work, because like in the physics, there's an equation where, I forget what it is now, but work equals something times something, and it's, you know, it's all activity, really. So there's a lot more work going on, instead of potential, you know.

Yeah. Well, other potential is too conceptual, really, but there's less work. Yeah. Less energy being consumed and used. It is, yes, the energy is already going into creating and co-creating the conceptual reality. Yeah. Instead of recognizing the content of seeing, hearing, tasting, touching, being, smelling, whatever. So it is just, and it is okay also, whatever is, it's always fine. That's more work, isn't it? I think, and also like to watch, Michael was saying earlier too, one of the biggest first ones to go is that one where, the judging of, the not being a bad non-jeweller, you know. That's one of the first big ones to go is just less of that judging that it's just being done wrong, or just being, you know, believed in over and over, you know.

That's one of the first ones just to wander off, isn't it, and give more relief. Yeah, and if judging happens, you just recognize it as yet another wave on the ocean, just another pattern. It's like an over wave on top of the other wave, isn't it? Yeah. It's going on the wave. Yeah. Yeah. It's a really good sign if that's wandering off. Yeah, that's the way actually to deal with whatever shows up. Like, I got the message, Judith really wanted to come, but she has to go and show tourists penguins today. But she was struggling with judgment over something, like beating herself up. She was beating herself up for some sort of a financial issues that she has.

And, of course, she would want to stop. She would want me to encourage her to stop. It's not going to happen. I'm not going to advise anyone to stop to do what they do because they're not the doers. Like, sometimes Bob is joking, yelling at people, stop it! That's a pointer. That's a joke. But the only thing I could tell her, I say, you know what? Just notice. Just recognize the story is going on about finances. And then beating yourself up is going on over the story. Just recognize it and leave it as it is. Don't touch it. Don't try to change it. Don't buy into a story.

Don't try to modify it. Don't try to stop it. Don't try to agree with it. Just see how long it is going to last. The story? Beating yourself up. Judgment over the story. And, of course, it's not up to her how long the recognition is going to happen because she's not the doer of recognition either. Yeah. You could also have just said to her what you said to me. You're delusional. You think you're the doer. Yes. Exactly. That made me laugh. It was like the beating up just like, damn, that was really, really helpful. Yeah. You know, that to me, that is just, yeah, I guess I love that one.

The other, the other idea that's coming in stronger now is the subject-object thing. That like, because it, I mean, for a while I just, it didn't, maybe, I mean, it's still coming home stronger now. You know, there's, there's, but the, the awareness. Awareness is the one thing that I cannot look at. You know, I can't find, I can't find awareness. Okay? I can't find the one that's aware. No. Okay? No matter how, I can't find them. And that, that for me is like, all right, subject-object. What's aware of the object is the awareness, right? Awareness is, there's awareness. You could even think of that about awareing.

Like the, the activity of knowing. Awareing. Awareing. We're creating new words. I'm like, I'm awareing. Because the word awareness suggests that there is a thing like awareness. But what is aware or who is aware of that thing? So if that's a thing, you already, just, just throw it away with the rest of the content. It doesn't matter. But the awareing, the activity of knowing, that's why Bob calls that intelligence energy. Activity of knowing, the knowing, awareing. And then he said, he separates intelligence energy, it doesn't say that it's intelligent energy. No. So, can you explain that a little more? The difference between the intelligence and intelligent?

So that's, that's what, that's what I just said. He, he calls, he uses two words. The intelligence is representing the static aspect. Because if you look at the universe, you look at the brilliance of it, it implies there is a great intelligence. Look what intelligence it requires for your red blood cells to know which way to go around the body. Everything is suffused with that innate intelligence. It's built in. Like the planets know their trajectory around the sun. That's innate knowing, innate intelligence. Like everything, every single thing knows which way the atoms should be running in it. That is, is, every expression is the expression of that innate intelligence.

That's why everything you look at is absolutely brilliant. You know, the glass is not falling apart, it's holding together. It's intelligence, the intelligence of every particle, intelligence of every form, and intelligence in itself, in the formless state. Before it becomes a form, that's the static aspect. Like they call it sometimes Shiva Shakti, there is one, Shiva Shakti. Shiva is, is there, the consciousness, and the Shakti is a movement, is the, is the form. So intelligence is a static aspect, is space, stillness, silence, basic screen. The Shiva. The Shiva. And energy is the movement. So the movement of that intelligence is showing up as Shakti, as the forms.

It's the manifestation, the world, the Maya. So it's one. Absolutely. It's one. Just dancing. Just, is the, is the silence becoming a sound. See how the sound is just vibration in silence. Yeah, the sound doesn't exist without the silence and the silence. But the silence can exist without the sound. How would you know this, the silence? Yeah. Yeah. So there would be no silence if it weren't for sound. No. No. The whole nature is also manifested in pairs of opposites. You wouldn't know day if there was no night. You wouldn't know one or the other was. Yeah. So everything is known from the, from the opposites.

Otherwise, if there was no opposites, that can't be known. And that's why the awareness can't be known. It has no opposite. That's why the mind can't grasp it. Because it's singular. It's not dualistic. Everything that you can witness from the perception operated by the mind. Because all the senses are also operated by the mind, the interpretation and everything. The way you even learn how to look and distinguish things. All of it you can be, you can conceive of because it is in the duality. It is maya. It is, it seems separate. It has the opposite. Day, night, winter, summer. While the being, awareness of presence, you can't deny it.

Try not to be. Try to touch the opposite. You can't. It's singular. It's beyond the mind. That's why also, Bob says, there is no answer in the mind. You can waste whatever time you want trying to find it. You can exhaust yourself trying. It's absolutely impossible. It's impossible. No matter how much investment in trying to work it out, trying to understand it, it's never ever gonna happen. It feels like, oh yeah, but if I contemplate for long enough, I will have an insight. No. If you didn't contemplate, you will have ten insights. So that was really fascinating to me, you know. The emptiness and the fullness.

And generally, I hear, you know, be aware of the emptiness. So you could equally be aware of the fullness and come to the same, you know, whatever. Well, that's your way in. It took away something in a second. Never thought of it. Well, it's kind of like saying, if there's no, if you're seeing there's a, if there's another that implies there's a self. Yeah, but it's just that focus on the awareness of emptiness. Well, Kat's like pointing to fullness. Yes. Because she's got the joy of all the different things. Okay. So just listen to Kat, pointing to fullness, you know, to opening up fullness for people.

And also open up love of the crappy pattern or whatever. She's quite good at pointing to fullness for me, because I was in emptiness as the easy one. Yeah. Well, it feels like the first time I've noticed that. Pointing to fullness. Now, can you, let's elaborate more on that, because I want to hear more about what you're saying. Well, I suppose, you know, this awareness of emptiness in everything. Arriving on the emptiness. That's how it's breathes the world. And so the emptiness became a dominant sort of thing. Not the fullness. What is the fullness, though? Well, that's everything, what's happening. All the stuff. It's a wow in a moment that pops up.

Right. To me that pops up out of nothing, nothing, nothing. It's completely different fullness when you don't focus on the stuff. This is when Bob is pointing... What is fullness without the stuff? Wow. Yeah. Yeah. It's love. It's love. It's joy. You don't really need the stuff, the fullness, fullness of the stuff is buying into Maya. If you actually look at the reality and you recognize the nothingness of everything, and yet it still appears, yet it still stands before your eyes, and you understand it's still nothing. Nothing. And that very nothingness is basically that hollow figures or shadow pictures like Raibu Gita says. They're dancing, then changing, and they are still nothing.

And you look at this like... Whew. My God. You don't focus on the things anymore. You just see the miracle of the moment. And you feel that emptiness of everything. Emptiness here, emptiness there. So you are that everything. You recognize yourself that the same emptiness that manifests this, the same emptiness manifests that. This is what you are. You are showing itself to itself, yourself to yourself. Basically, you're looking at the... You can't show yourself the awareness because there is no opposite to it. You can't know yourself. You can only dress up and blink an eye as a Shakti. And now, whatever you see is your face.

You don't focus on a particular piece of content. Although you can. That will be also you. But just the space. Just the depth of it. Like this. Whew. This everything. This is how I know myself. How else would I know myself? And now you're in love with everything. You're in love with yourself. Because you see the brilliance of yourself. The magnificence of yourself. And you suddenly understand that the suffering is part of the game. That if you didn't forget who you were. If you didn't combine yourself to that little separate entity. You wouldn't have... You wouldn't be able to recognize, to come back and see like...

Oh my God! I've always been that. It's not that I've been a person till some time ago. And now I'm everything. No! I've always been that. I just had a little binders on my eyes. And a little belief that... No, no. The Santa Claus brought me a gift. It's not my mother. So this... This is how it makes sense. This is how it is worth it. This is where the suffering is worth it. Where the dying is worth it. This is really... Like nothing is wrong with suffering. What do you think? He heard it earlier. He had to do it. Now who knows? That's sad.

You've told him. That was sweet. That's joy in itself. I don't really know. It's just sad. I love that phrase. What is it? What is it? Something in the web we weave when we practice to deceive. It's like the human pattern just does that all its life. It's kind of funny. I'm laughing at that. Kelly. That's for you. You're not registered. The cat's confused. The cat's going, are you my mother? Are you the one that gives me special treats? McDonald's cats? The cat is missing Robin and Terry. He likes the big hearty scratches, from the big hearty men. And he's very much missing Bob too.

Yeah, they don't let me sleep at night because they are alone. The poor little kitty is abandoned the whole day because I'm sitting in the hospital. So when I get back home and I go to bed, they just get on both sides of me and they don't let me sleep. They purr, they meow, they try to get under the blanket. They want attention. Everything, the whole manifestation is created the way that if attention doesn't sustain it, it goes bananas. It disappears. That's why children are so preoccupied with attention. They need it to grow, to grow healthy. See what happens with children deprived from this attention.

They become nuts. So if I'm not attending, there's no focus or attention on the awareness. Yes. It just drops away. Well, the awareness is there, but it's completely out of reach. It's completely invisible. It becomes nothing. Yeah, that's it. That's a beautiful point. Yeah, I heard actually one friend of mine who was studying psychology. She told me behavioral psychology in Poland. She told me the way to behave with children and with dogs is more or less the same. It's better if you beat them up and abuse them than you ignore them. It's like flowers. What? Because, yes, they need attention to live, to be. Actually, the children that are abandoned, they start moving like offrants and they die.

Without the touch, without attention, they die. You have to have the supply. Of course, the quality attention of love and support, that's the attention that is sustaining life. That's the better attention. But beating the dog, kicking a dog, is better than ignoring it. Oh, good reason. Apparently one of the C's has done an experiment and the babies died. Yes. With no touch, human touch, and just a little bit of feeding every day. The whole world, you know, if we stop agreeing on focusing on the walls as real, they may collapse. Well, there will be thousand others pointing consciousness that will keep it together, so there is no risk.

But apparently there were some experiments like this. Really? Yes. Everything is sustained by the attention. Well, to start with the quantum physics, whether the electron is a wave of particle, you can't even tell unless somebody is looking at it, giving it attention. It didn't make it mind. If the guy who is going to look is having preference this way, that's what's going to happen. Everything, the whole manifestation, is fed on that one intelligence energy, that life essence. You know how like you, I've heard that if you love a drop of water, okay, versus hating a drop of water, it actually changes the chemical composition of the water.

They've been able to see that. And if you ignore the drop of water, it's probably worse. Does it evaporate? It's the same with flower, plant experiments, yeah. The hated plants do better than the ones that are involved. Yeah. Yeah. I could do an own experiment. Yeah, even here, you can drink it. Yeah, the quality attention would be the best. Yeah. When you drink it, it affects the body too. Yeah, but I think the love is better than the things that we hate. They don't seem to, it's not seem to be working. I mean we've been working, we've been hating for the last, well, since forever.

It's a duality, everything is polar. You can't only love, you can't have one without the other. Or you can have it in one body, but the other body will compensate. That's the thing, if there was no ego, if there was no polar opposites, there would be no recognition. The game would be pointless. Air will move to fill a vacuum, I think it's one of the clearest kind of pointers that there is. And then you see, the idea that this is better than the other is precisely the judgmental mind. There's nothing right or wrong, but thinking makes it so. You got me. And to be honest, I would never exchange the acute suffering that I had three years ago for anything in my life.

Because if not for that acute suffering, I would still be a guru hopping and seeking. So, it's not that the pleasure is better than pain. Everything has its place in the appearance and there is that great intelligence expressing us all this. And you have no idea what's going to happen in the future, but you sure yourself can look back and go, there's no way that preference was ever going to happen given that pattern doing its shit, you know. There's no way. You know, what was it thinking? Right. Yeah. No, it could, nothing could be anything other than what it is. Yeah. Absolutely. You know, nothing could be other than what it is.

And at the same time, it's just to me, like, the thought that we think, that most of us think, that if I shit on you, or I shit on myself, that that's going to make things different. That's going to make it change. Okay? If I shit, if there's shitting on this. Okay? Then that's going to make it better, somehow. And you're going to behave differently if I shit on you enough. And if I shit on myself enough, that's going to change things. And that's what we're all doing. Okay? It's more like shitting, that's all. It's just a lot of shitting. And I guess it couldn't, I know the shitting couldn't until I'm shitting on shitting.

Okay? But at the same time, I just, I still think it's just kind of ridiculous that we think, that I think that if I shit on this, if I shit on this behavior, and I, it's going to change it. But it doesn't. No. It's in the acceptance of that behavior, the allowing of the behavior, the love of that, that it blossoms and changes and transforms. The shitting holds it in place. And funny enough, you know, for the whole appearance, how the, how the whole appearance work, even shooting has its place. I mean, you know, when I'm saying that everything is perfectly resolved and is beautiful and everything has its place, suffering has its place.

It doesn't mean to say, don't stop suffering. It doesn't mean don't help someone who is suffering. It means that shooting, oh, poverty should stop, is part of the manifestation. I will not recognize it as my, you know, concept or whatever, or personal shooting. But, you know, there is a movement trying to end the climate change, and they all say we should do something about it. And this is not them saying it. It is life expressing to the group of people by the shooting. Another life expressing to the group of people ending poverty. Another life, I mean, this is all the same life, but life expressing as a situation.

As the poverty or as the violence and life expressing as elevation of violence. And as shooting. War with drugs. It's also expressing as shooting. Exactly. That's also life. It's nothing out of line. The fact that there is poverty and the fact that there are people who hate poverty and want to end it, absolutely wonderful. This is all the same movement of life. It doesn't mean that, you know, oh, okay, so everything is okay. I'm not going to stop suffering. I'm not going to get out someone who fell. Bullshit. You're not going to do any of it because you never did. If till now you were always helping someone who fell, when you realize that there wasn't you.

It was pure life. It's just going to continue the same way. If you sit in the car reading a book instead of looking out the window, you'll just get car sick. Yes, it's much simpler. Any conceptual overlay of what is, what it should be and how it is not and how it will be in future when I stop believing being a person is all crap. It's all conceptual. It's all just going to the mind for more of the entertainment. Let's imagine how fantastic it will be when I don't need any teachers anymore. Imagination. How about this moment? How about this moment as it is? About the awareness of being right now, the basic screen and the content.

How important is the basic screen and how important is the content? And there is content of seeing relatively neutral and there is content of thinking. Ah, but I have to find a job and pay my bills. How important is that? What really matters? What's real? Is the fleeting, changing content the reality? Is it what we want to give that heart to it? Or is the undeniable fact of existence? The omnipresence, omnipotence, omniscience. That's the question. Will it be accepting everything as it is and take it from that? Totally. Totally. Yeah. Totally. And everything, including judgments. That's right. Yeah. Yeah. And that's the way to be.

That's called effortless living. It doesn't mean that judgments don't arise in Bob or anyone. Yeah. They just don't hang along. It's just like doesn't mean nature doesn't have an ego, so it should be no thunderstorms. Of course there will be. So Bob doesn't have an ego, so he shouldn't get tired and irritable at times. Why? Who has the judgment, the tired or irritable? Yeah. What's wrong with a little bit of an anger or irritation? What's wrong? It's just a lot, just another pattern, just another sensation. Yeah. There's a lady I met once who said, you know, if you're enlightened, you don't get angry or something like that.

And she's a fan of the Dalai Lama. Hmm. And I saw a video I just wanted to share, like I saw Dalai Lama getting angry. Jesus got angry when he threw the tables down. I mean, so it's, it's, uh, there's a lot of shooting that we shouldn't get angry. We shouldn't have sadness. There shouldn't be fear. I think one of you guys pointed out, I don't know, it might have been Jane or something about the, the birds. It might have been you. It might have been you. Okay. It was about the birds. The birds, they have fear. I love the, the, the comparison that you guys do with animals.

Oh yeah. That's, yeah. And nature. Animals don't have an ego. That's right. You know, they, there's, they, they, although, I mean in nature they don't have depression it seems. Okay. But they do around people. Hmm. So that's where it's a little confusing. So you can take a dog and the dog, like for example, it can be trained to have, to have depression. You know, if you put, they, they used to do experiments. I think they're evil and wicked, but they would do experiments where they would put a dog in a room and they would shock the dog in this corner. So the dog would move to another corner and then they would shock it in that corner and then it would go somewhere else.

And then after a while it would just sit still and not do anything because it was pointless. You know, and then it would train. And no matter what, even if they turned off the shocking and there was no more shocking, the dog would just say, you know. Even without shocking, the animals that are dying are lying under the tree and giving up, waiting for dying. It's just breathing. It's nothing. You know, making a story, the dog is thinking it shouldn't happen this way, which is depression. Depression is obsessive thinking. And it's, there is no depression if you don't have a label about it. It's just the energy in the body.

And there may be deficiency of minerals. There may be a heaviness in the body. There may be all sorts of things. But unless you bring mental images about being worthless, about being full of shame, you can't even call it depression. It doesn't qualify. So dog, you can't tell if he has an image of guilt or shame in him. If he has the suicidal self-rejection in him or self-contempt in him. Just lying down under the tree and not feeling like moving about. But, of course, it feels like we project the sadness. But sadness is not depression. Of giving up is not depression. Giving up is just as easier not to move.

Yeah. Easier not to move. Yeah. So there would be emotions, of course. There would be a lot of emotions. Dogs are dying on their owner's grave. Right. Because they're grieving. But there is no story as far as we understand the neuronal connections in the brain and the networks in the brain of the animals. So humans suffer worse than animals because of their thoughts. Yeah. Animals experience pain and uncomfortable emotions. They don't have a story on top of it. There's probably an age. But suffering is not the same as pain. Suffering is resistance to pain or anything else. Suffering is resistance to pain or anything else.

Or the way the life looks like. The way I am. The way anybody else is. Resistance. That's suffering. Animals, they can have initial resistance response, of course. They can run away or they can not like a food or whatever or bite someone. But they don't hold on to the resistance because it takes conceptualizing. Maybe there's memory of the owner's smell and maybe just a slight urge towards that and then giving up kind of because there's kind of a recognition that's not coming back of the line on the grave or something. You know, maybe there's just a few little things in there but not the rest.

Yeah. And that's a great example because exactly the same thing happens with anyone. Like, you know, just like animals experience emotions, they experience the movement of energy, which we could project or recognize by our mirror neurons in the brain as whatever joy or sadness or anything. They also experience, seem to experience resistance though. Totally. Totally. They just don't hang on to it. Yeah. Yeah. So they'll resist. Like, if you're trying to kill it, they'll fight. Absolutely. And they will resist that. If someone tries to break your leg, you will try to push it away. Totally. Everybody won't have time to story about it. But what they don't resist is really, they don't, well, they don't resist their resistance.

They don't sustain it. They don't sustain it. Yeah, they don't resist their resistance, do they? Yeah. I have resistance of my resisting resistance. Okay. So, we're going over time, so I'm going to cut it short now. Thank you. And thank you. Thank you very much, everyone. Thank you. Thank you. I'm sorry for not having all that.