Non Duality Sailor Kat

Can you start? Anybody doesn't know anybody? Or we can just say the names. Jane, Julia, Tony, I'm Moira, Robin, Terry. Cut. Okay, so we'll see how we go. I contacted doctor of Bob and he says it's okay. The colors and stuff is alright. It's normal, natural. It's a gravity. It's good. Should have said it before, but I just got the message. Yes, so he's happy enough and he's happy enough. Happy enough. We prefer to be home, but... How long have you been there? They booked the bed till 15th of July, but we really, really hope he'll be fit to go back. Before that, because, yeah, it's a long time.

Anyway, he told me again, I got the instructions, soak it into them. Soak it into them. So I'm going to just be soaking. You're going to get wet. Yeah, don't get too wet. We're going to be dry. Alright, baby. Love you too. Love you too. Yeah, so we just start where Bob starts. We are already that. Like, everything is that. Starting from that space or that awareness of presence or being or nothingness. How would the nothingness see itself if not by giving itself a body and giving itself a forms? But are they anything at all? Rather than just forms enabling the whole play, the lila, to actually show up.

The divine game. So the scriptures and the experience. The experience. The thoughts will tell us something else. But the experience will tell us, yes. That is the case. There is nothing without the thought. There is nothing that exists without the persistent thought. We can stop thinking and the seeing is still happening. But we forget that the perception has been trained since we first opened the eyes. And we started learning names of objects. So we basically see what we were trained to see and what we recognize. The perception and all the other senses are one with the mind. They are operated by the computer. It's like what the camera can see in the computer if there is no software, no program that will interpret the picture.

So obviously, perception is part of the mind. And without the mind and without the perception, what do we really know? And there is one thing that we always know. And there is not a we that knows it. It's just pure knowing. So just for the heck of an experiment, if we pause the thought for a moment. We close the eyes, the ears. Because we park aside because we can't completely deselect the bodily sensations. We can't deselect the smell or sense of touch. But if we just park it aside for a moment and see if there is anything distinguishable. Anything that is known for certain apart from the sensory input.

And then, because this is the thing that we can only sense, we can... Actually, it's not a thing, so we can't really sense it, pick it up or know. Even know it in the normal, usual way, the way we know things, like filter through the mind. So it can't be known, if this is what I am, how can I know it? It can't be known, but it can't be denied. So, going through neti neti process, the process of denying what isn't. We can very, very easily arrive in the same place. In the same place where there is that undeniable sense of being. A sense that, what Judith was saying on Sunday.

But there is a me, I can feel it, there is a me. But what is that me? I don't know. Yeah, and then, I don't know, that's the end of story. There is never ever going to be a knowing what is the me, other than conceptual. Because whatever we can say or know about that sense of presence, we will have to know through this interpreting services. We will have to name it, label it, make it to a thing, to an object. But this is not a thing. What I am is not a thing. If it was the thing, who is there to actually be aware of the thing?

Obviously, I am not the thing then. I am awareness of it, the knowing of it. So, starting from this, if there is only knowing, and now this very knowing is obscured, is overlaid with different senses, perceptions, thoughts, feelings, hearing, seeing, tasting, touching, smelling. So that, seeing, hearing, tasting, touching, smelling is the content. So that can be known, and then again, this is where the, as a pointer, differentiation between awareness and consciousness comes about. Even though there is only one, so differentiation is only used as a pointer, there is no differentiation. There is no difference between anything at all. This is all just one, manifesting as many.

It is just playing out. Yeah, but for the sake of pointer, there is knowing of the content. And there is much, much, much deeper knowing, is related to the content. Because content is flowing, is changing. Content is precisely forms and names and forms, Nama Rupa in Hinduism, which means fiction, which means illusion. So the content is not the reality. It, it seems, it seems crazy for people who live in that world very grounded and who didn't ever have a conscious glimpse of the reality. The reality, the reality, the reality, the reality of being. They live in the reality of objects, in the things. Like the consciousness as it is, or the awareness as it is, gave itself this equipment, this machine.

And this machine is designed the way, so the eyes are seeing the objects and they are not seeing the space. They only focus on forms. The ears focus on, on, on sounds. And of course, there have to be silence, otherwise the sounds wouldn't be distinguished. That is the false sense of separation. That because of the design of the, of the machinery, the, the whole game, the lila plays out, shows up to itself. So, but without that sensory experiences, there is still something that is undeniable, regardless of content. And that is the reality. Reality, like Julia, you love this quote, reality is that which never changes.

What doesn't change? Content is changing. Thoughts are changing. Body is changing. What is it in the world or in me? Anywhere. What is it that never changes? What doesn't? And, and of course, mind is time and time is mental concept. But we could use that again for the sake of pointing. There is something that doesn't change regardless of aeons or decades or whatever. The, the, the human experience take a while. So there was something there since the beginning of human experience that didn't change. So what was it when I was a child? I had different body. I had different concept about myself. I had different fears.

I had different experiences. I was living in a different country, in a different city. I was surrounded by different people. But there was the me, like Judith says. There was a sense that, ah yeah, but, but I was there. There, there was a sense of presence. There was this basic screen on which the content appeared. The me was covered up with the ideas that I am this little girl with the squinted eyes and extremely shy and extremely inferior. But that concept has changed. I'm not that anymore. So what was there underlying the concept? What was there underlying the body, underlying the, the content of, of, of experiencing?

This very thing never changes. But it feels like experience is, is changing all the time. It feels like the mood is changing. Like the, whatever the, everything that we could call experience and deselect as something that comes and goes. But there is something that experiences appear on. And that is what we are looking for. And that is what we can't find. Because we are that. So what, what we are is the experiencing or the basic screen upon which the whole appearance is, is being, is, is demonstrating itself to itself. So being a screen, resting in that, in that being, this is, this is something that is totally impossible for the conceptual image of the mind that we think we are.

Because the mind has been trained using all the senses to focus, to focus on things. And the basic screen is no thing. It isn't a screen. It isn't a thing. It doesn't have any form, any shape, any, it doesn't have, it's like Bob is using analogy of find the center to space. You can't. It's, it's just, and space is also a limited because it seems like it's a, it's a dual opposite of the form. But it's, it's, it's good enough analogy because it is not a thing. It is not a thing. And yet, as you Tony often say, it's not a void either. It's not a void because sense of presence is when it is really fully embraced and when it is fully embodied in a way, because it's a wrong word of course.

It's, it's, it, the, the sensation of presence can be as intense as anything. It can be as intense as when they are talking about the bliss, being, consciousness, bliss, Satchitananda. It can be absolutely blissful. It can blow your fuses. So it isn't a void. It is nothing and yet it isn't a void. So relaxing to that, to that state of, to that basic screen. Yeah, that's, that's the challenge because for the mind, it isn't, it isn't possible. It literally isn't possible. For the mind, this is boring. This is nothing. This is something ungraspable. Like for the ear, this is silence. Silence, nothing. Give me some music.

Give me something. Like can't be just silence. For the, for the eyes, it is formless. And for the thought, again, it can't be made to a thought form. It can't be made to a thing. So mind is complete, not only uninterested in that very phenomenon. It's not even phenomenon, that basic screen. But it's also completely incapable of grasping it. Because mind is just one of the minute expressions of it. So understanding this, that this, this basic screen or that space like awareness or presence of awareness or awareness of being is there regardless of the mind. But when the mind tries to sense it, it will sense vibration in the body.

It will sense aliveness moving. It will sense movement. That movement comes and goes. That movement is also part of the appearance. It's pretty plain. It's like, you know, the veil of, of overlay of the reality with the dream when we go on the, on the level of pure sensing, of pure seeing, hearing, tasting, touching, smelling. It's pretty beautiful and it's pretty profound. And the suffering doesn't exist on that level already. It's already being free from the suffering. But yet, there is still further to go if we understand that even sensory phenomena are the dream. They are appearance. This is how the consciousness is blinking an eye on itself.

Because being one, being just one, there's, there's, there's just this one. How can it, how can it relate to itself? How can it show itself to itself in the mirror? It needs the other in any way. So, not that it needs. It does it. That is what it is. It doesn't need anything as perfect as it is. But this is what it does at this moment. Because when it, when the body goes to sleep, it doesn't it anymore. It doesn't do it anymore. But right in this moment, it experiences itself as the manifestation. It has a glimpse of itself as the manifestation. Yet, it can return to itself and it can bring back the, withdraw the attention from the content.

Especially content from thinking, but also content from the senses. And rest in its own, on its own, on itself. And this is the moment of disappearance of the universe. Which is, you know, when you don't think about the universe, where is it? Yeah, this is, this is what I was trying to say on Sunday, but it wasn't really, it didn't really come true. And yeah, it's, this immediacy is all there ever is. Seriously. It's not that there is some theoretical, theoretical future or some other countries or the world. Maybe they are, maybe they aren't. But to solve it, we just have to drop it and go to the head and think.

And we have to believe in it. So there is a lot of mental activity engaged and involved in holding on to the picture, mental image of the, of the world. Just as much as a lot of mental activity involved in holding on to a picture of myself. And recognizing that huge work, that huge buzzing in the head and that huge amount of energy sustaining that buzzing in the head is the key. Because when I actually see how much energy, how much investment goes into holding on to the conceptual image. into maintaining myself, maintaining how people, what people think of me, how do I look, what's my preferences or am I right about this religion or that philosophy.

This is a huge work that is going on in the background all the time. And the easiest way to spot it is to see how much the story is always about me. And how important is that me? You know, that, that me is taken care, that me is well received. So every time when that me, that selfing is going on, this is precisely where the life essence or intelligence energy is feeding the phantom. It's just like thinking right now about the, the rest of the world outside the door and holding it real. Even though quantum mechanics told, told us many years ago, it's a field of probability.

There's nothing there, just a field of probability. You go and see if the Schrodinger's cat is dead or alive. Can't say. You have to find the observer. Or if the electron is a wave or a particle. Can't say. It has to be some intelligent observer. Monkey is not enough. The monkey has to bring it to a person who is having a reasoning capacity to actually reason. Well, it could be a well trained monkey. But anyway, there has to be this consciousness to give the light, like Bob is saying, the light coming out of your eyes, it actually holds the reality solid. That very attention holds the reality solid.

And we trained ourselves to actually keep it at bay, to keep it in place. The way we learned to perceive, distinguish, label things, hold them in place. So now, to step back, doesn't mean that we're going to lose solidity of things. No, no, we're going to enjoy it to the fullest. That's the beauty of it. It's going to stay as solid because the machine will be doing whatever it does. Everything is equal. Well, when Bob had a fall, the floor was very, very solid. Yeah, that's how it works. It doesn't mean that. Recognizing that this is the way the space and the time and the world came to existence through the reasoning capacity.

Understanding that very process doesn't undo the process. The process is still working on autopilot. It will still be going on. And wonderful. Why not? It's gorgeous. It will be the time for this computer to rest in probably some time. Time. Yeah, but recognizing the process, also recognizing how it holds the reality solid and how it holds the conceptual image solid. That very recognition, when that process is sustained automatically and there is an awareness, it's not exactly being disassociated. It's just being disidentified. It's just dropping the identity. It's like dropping the coat that I'm wearing. Okay, I'm this image and it's very important. I'm wearing this mask of identity and it's very important to hold onto it because what am I going to do without my mask?

Well, again, who is the me who is carrying the mask? This is the structure made of thoughts, thoughts built on thoughts. And just like the world has been built from scratch from the very young age, that conceptual image has been built from scratch also. Now we have the seer and the seen. Now we have the sufferer and the suffering. And now we have the duality, the plain duality. And yeah, cool. But when it's recognized? When the identity of the separate entity is abandoned? Because it's totally unnecessary. Look at the cut. It doesn't need anything at all. It experiences life just... And it also has the brain.

And it also has the solid objects. He doesn't bump into the trees. He is functioning perfectly well without that conceptualizing, the extra over layer of me. How, what do I think about this tree? What do I think about that flower or that person? Apart from seeing reality through the computer, of course, interpreted through the bio-computer, we add on it the relating to ourselves. Now I see the chair. It's alright. Yeah, that's the chair. That's already a concept. And that's already a really, really big approximation of what it is. Because what it is really is a mystery that the whole universe contributed to come into existence.

But yes, I see the chair. But now, I will see my response to the chair on top of it. Okay? This chair is hard or is soft or is too low or is too ugly or is... I don't like it. Or I do like it. So now, the reality is being covered by interpreting through the conceptual image, through the person. So, when this process is recognized, how the sustaining of the image goes on moment to moment. How the selfing, the self-obsession relating to myself comes on moment to moment. Where is it recognized from? When I am aware of my own selfing, where am I looking at it from?

Where is... Who has recognized it? Can I locate the one who is recognizing it? Like the moment when actually... Bob was almost holding my hand. He wasn't, of course. He's sitting on the other chair. But he was asking me questions to see what was the most traumatic thing through which... In which I came devastated to him, crying my eyes out, ready to die. The most devastating was that I haven't been seen for what I thought I was. My ex-partner, he had conceptual image of me who was so far out to what was my conceptual image of myself. That it was killing, it was unbearable. He saw this smart ass, and I'm not the smart ass, I'm a sensitive, vulnerable, da-da-da.

See, he had this image, I had this. But which image is right? The moment you realize that whatever you believe yourself to be, whatever your self-concept or your self-image is, it will be different than other people's image of you. But it will still be just an image. Because just as this chair is absolute mystery, there is mystery, unknowable. The same, what you are, is totally unknowable. You have a glimpse of yourself by looking in the mirror of this 3D display or 4D display, whatever. But what you are, you can never ever know. You can never ever touch upon it. You can just see the glimpses, which will basically be...

Well, one of the pointers would call it, this is what you are not. If you are aware of it, this is a content. But that, again, brings, just for the sake of pointing, for a moment it brings the idea of duality. Okay, I am not this. So, there is two of us. There is, I am this and not this. It's just a pointer. It's just to make it easy to recognize. All the pointers eventually have to be... It's thrown away because the walk has to be walked. This is not something to talk about. This is something to actually taste, something to live moment to moment.

And as we spoke with Tony just before the meeting, it is moment to moment realisation. Like thoughts, feelings, emotions, stories, functionality, it all comes about. Even the may come some sort of a resistance. If the pain shows up, oh, the contraction shows up! And moment to moment it is being recognised. It is recognising itself. It comes to the point where the awareness of being doesn't fade anymore. Because originally when we are first attracted to it and we first hear about it, the awareness of being is something totally undetectable. because we only come from the mind. So for the mind it is nothing. And it will always be only nothing.

It will be always something that is ungraspable. So the mind is just the best thing that my mind can hear of all this spiel is give up. Get out of the way. Just give up. It's not for you. It's not going to work. It's like the computer or algorithm in the computer trying to understand electricity. It's not going to understand electricity. It's just not going to work. It can write a long, long description of it, but it can't taste it. It can't taste it. It's like the character in the story, in the book, can't taste the page on which the book is written. This is how far the mind is from the experience of reality.

Mind is a content and the content has been, this particular piece of content has been designed. designed by the life, by the consciousness to cover it up, to cloud it, to make it a perfect illusion, to make it so good that you will never, ever find a way out. So you identify with the mind and the trap is absolutely supreme. Mind can never, ever get out of this trap. It can't. It's not difficult. It's impossible. First of all, because the mind is the creator of the duality. So the mind, the only way out of it is to actually drop squid trying, recognize mind activity as just completely mechanical dualistic vibration over in the head.

Don't give it much importance. It doesn't mean that functionality will not come, of course, the calculations, everything, it will spontaneously come up. But the recognition of any, any unnecessary rumbling in the head, or trying to work it out, or trying to remember the quote, or trying to, you know, understand it in any, any conceptual way, is basically waste of time. If that's understood, there's nothing else we can do. It's like Nisargadatta says, your dream is not your problem. Your problem is that you love one part of it and not the other. Who is loving one or not the other? It's always the head, it's always the mind that has the idea, that mind that created the conceptual me.

And now, this conceptual me, made of thoughts, past experiences, events, ideas, that very thing is having, yeah, it's having preferences, it's relating to itself. So dream is not your problem. You like one part and not the other. Now he says, the only thing you can ever do is just recognize it as a dream. That's it. Nothing else is to be done. Nothing else is to be done. Recognize it for a dream and let go. So if it's recognized, the rest will be done for you. What is else to do? What is to do? Enjoy the ride. Enjoy the ride while it lasts. So this is, this is the invitation.

And yeah, Toni, can you say what you said just before the meeting? It was beautiful quote. She actually came up with her own wonderful idea. Just like your poetry was. I need context again, because I've just been sitting here seeing this video and I'm not thinking about it the whole time. So, can you tell me what you're talking about? Meaning of life. What's the meaning? What did you say before that? Probably didn't answer. Yeah, just tell me what you, what you told us in the hospital. What is the meaning of life? Oh yeah, not thinking about it. Haha, isn't that cool? That's what I was doing anyway.

Yeah, there you go. See, this is, this is the brilliance. This is the brilliance of the genius mind. Not thinking about it. Big picture mind. One principle. Stick with it. Stick with it. Because what does it mean? I don't need to. It just flashes in like that all the time. Sure. Yeah. But if, if, if, the meaning of life is not thinking about it. Exactly. Try to embrace it and experience it. Now, every moment when you are not thinking about it, and it can be whatever, you are beyond your mind. You're staying in this uncontrived singularity. You're staying in unborn Buddha mind. So, make it a meaning of life.

Staying in the experiencing of it. Absolutely. Yes. The concept. Yeah. Huh? The concept of it. Well, now you've got a concept. It's not the concept, it's the experience. No, no, no. When, when you're in the mind. What, whatever it is that you're viewing. If, if we just take the, the seeing, for example. Whatever it is that you're viewing. If you're viewing it through the mind, or, or, the glasses of the mind, then what you're actually doing is a concept. You're saying the opposite of the, yeah. Yeah. And the, yeah, and the opposite of the truth. Just what's there if you're not thinking about it. Yeah.

Yeah, that, that was the idea to actually, yeah, I just, I just love the, you know, how poetic it was. To actually say, because meaning of life, you know, like, when I was kind of trying to answer the question, what, what is it all about? Like, what the heck, you know? I used to ask questions, why would life give itself such a bad right, a torture of suffering, of ego, of relating? I couldn't get it. Why would the intelligence, great brilliance of life, design such a monster, like an ego? Gosh, it should be called stupidity energy, not intelligence energy. Or nastiness. God is evil. It's evil.

But no, it's really, once you actually see through the whole manifestation, through the whole dream, how magnificent it is. How perfect it is. And you understand that what you are and who you are is never, ever been bound or trapped. It is just enough to recognize that whatever the mind is overlaying on top of the reality is just a dream. And everything falls into place. Everything is perfectly resolved. So now, so you, you said that, you know, not thinking about it, meaning of life, not, not trying to resolve it, not trying to make meanings, like you call it meaning making. So now, staying, that's actually life is no meaning, no meaning, no meaning, well, it's like a, I heard it once, a landmark.

Yeah. Life is meaningless and empty, and it's meaningless and empty, then it's meaningless and empty. Ah. Well, yeah. Okay. Yeah, it's true. Well, you could say, you're just saying, it's about the experience. Yeah, what's coming to me today is, where is the joy? This is something that comes up sometimes. It flashes in. Thank you. Where is the joy? Joy's not quite there. Yeah, okay, what's it like if there's really nothing going on, and then the joy comes. And that's what's been flashing in all the time when you've been talking. Sorry, I haven't heard most of it yet. Yeah, when you get out of the head and you stay in that no meaning making, you stay in the, you stay in the reality, you stay in the moment, you are recognising that, you know, the head activity is totally unnecessary.

I mean, it's not biting that it is flashing in constantly. Oh, fair enough. That kind of checking process, yeah. And then the joy's there. Yeah, that's the reality. Yeah, for me, when I first saw through the whole game, the question of meaning was completely irrelevant at that point. Like, it was so self-explanatory, like so obvious, that you could not really conceive of a story, why would that happen this way? Like, ooh, fuck, this is absolutely mind-blowing. Why would it happen this way? Like, gosh, could you even conceive of anything anywhere close to the brilliance of this being nothing and appearing like that? Like, there's really no, there's no space for even questioning the brilliance of it.

I've never had that one about why me or why it was happening. For some reason, it's just something that I've never had. Cool. I never understood it when people talk about it. But how about people who are not hearing you? What's that? How about people who are not hearing you? That's more like, like, I've never asked a God figure, you know, about problems in life. That's more like the pattern. It seems to be all about the pattern. And what's going on with the pattern. It sort of seems to be about the pattern. Yeah. Doing its shit. Yeah, that's what it does. Okay. So do you have any ideas or any topics or any things that you would like to actually focus on particularly?

Yeah, like any concept even? Because every single concept or pointer can take us all the way back to that place of relaxing into nothingness. But maybe there is something that bugs you particularly. Time, space, whatever. Some concepts. Conceptual image or me or maybe the body, feeling that I'm the body or feeling that I'm the mind. Is it anything that would come up that we could just hook onto and just kick off? Oh, I thought maybe Kelly was just saying hi. I thought maybe she had an idea. What the theme you had today on your coffee group? You know, what did we have in the coffee group?

I don't know. I was just seeing what was not hitting. Yeah, I can't tell you. Oh, it was about your Sunday thing, wasn't it? What's there if you're not thinking about it? I see. Well, that was one thing. I don't know. I can't think of it at the moment. Yeah, that's okay. Yeah, we can just say we're sitting in the silence and see what comes up then. I can keep repeating myself, but maybe just see what comes up. He is such a teacher, isn't he? This is the... Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Oopsie. This way. That was a cuddle. I think you were saying, Robin, it's getting more and more busted.

Any kind of inclination to look for it in the mind for you? It's getting more busted all the time. Yes. Yeah. No, no, I have seen that. But it can't be understood by the mind. So there's no point in even trying. The questions stop arising. Yeah. So... It's just no questions. Bob, you know, I've said it before. Bob says he's talking to the I am that I am. And that bypasses the intellect. The intellect can never get it. So... Yeah. It's allowed me to give up. Like, I don't worry about not understanding it anymore. Yeah. Because you can't. So, what's the point? I used to like to call the group years ago when we used to meet at Victoria Parade, years and years ago, the I give up group.

Yeah. Well, that is... That is the thing. Yeah. Not the I am I, but the me, basically. You know, because in the end the questions just stop arising. Yeah. Because it's pointless. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Very simple. Yeah. And actually, Bob was asking me how was I going. I said, I don't know. I don't know. I don't listen to myself. It's just, yeah, whatever. But he says, but how about when you ask people if there are questions? Are they quiet? I said, well, yeah. I guess so. Good. That's it. When the questions don't arise anymore, that's it. He says, you know, when I give them a spiel, he talks for whatever, half an hour, an hour, whatever, and then he asks for questions.

And it's usually nice and profound couple of minutes of silence. Absolute silence. No questions. That's interesting, because I always feel that I've got to try and find a question somewhere. No. No. It sometimes feels awkward for people to actually sit in silence. They're used to the chatter and now, oh my gosh, let's come up with something quickly, quickly, quickly. I just don't get questions anymore. Yeah. Well, that's good. Yeah. This is, yeah, the questions are always from the mind. You sort of ask yourself a question and realise you know the answer. Although the questions don't arise. No, I agree. I don't bother anymore. Okay. So, Tony, do you have questions?

No. No, I get, sometimes I get frustrated with something. I guess I'll have a frustration. So, the beginning of questions and then I realised, you know, that I haven't had this conscious shift between, you know, a number of people. How do you know that? Well. You're comparing, you're listening to people and... Yeah, I do a lot of comparison. But also, I don't really take, you know, this blah, blah, blah of an iron very seriously. Good. And I also imagine, maybe I am in a dream. Yeah. You know? So, you know, that sort of thing. And how amazing the stream is and how perfect. You know, all the stuff that's going on.

And if it doesn't, you know, bother me, you know, there appears to be nothing that bothers you know, whatever, you know? Yeah. Mmm. But, we're not there yet. Mmm. I suppose if I could say anything, it would be a freeing up of energy. You know? Because, um, I was trying to explain, um, that when I spent a lot of time in the head, I was a lot more tired. Okay. You know? And, um, you know, I just do what's in front of me. And there's not really a lot of dialogue about it. Yeah. And it's just, you know, it's just, um, I seem to get an amazing amount of stuff done.

And I don't even think about it until it's, until it's reflected upon, you know? Because there's, there's that what's watching and then, you know, the using of the mind, rather than the mind using me. Yes. Which is how it was before I understood this. Mmm. Um, where that used to dissipate a lot of energy. There was often a lot of questions. I was often a lot more tired. Yeah. Um, and there's a lot of space. And then something will come up. Space. Things will come up. You know? Silence. Things will come up. You know? And, um, there's an action that takes place that I watch.

And not a lot of dialogue going on in there. You know? It's just like, you know, I was trying to explain it like water, water flowing in a river rather than water stagnating in a bucket. Mmm. And becoming all sort of heavy and, you know? And, um, yeah, I just noticed that, and solutions seem to be found a lot easier. You know? Mmm. Compared to ten years ago or? Oh, yeah, yeah. Even, yeah. Well, you know, if, yeah, there is no time, but, I don't know, just things seem to happen a lot more spontaneously. Mmm. Um, if you're using the mind to reflect, which is a useful tool, um, yeah.

Life seems to flow a lot, a lot, I don't know, more effortlessly. And when Bob used to say to me years ago, it's life without effort, I wondered what he meant. Mmm. And now I think I understand what that means, because there's no one to make an effort. Yeah. You know? So there's no one to make an effort. It's just life as it is. It's not life as you think it should be, or whatever, whatever. It's just as is, right here, right now. You know? Okay. Now I conk out in the evenings. Oh, well, yeah, we all conk out. You know, I was saying to, I was saying to Kat, I forget, I forget.

So, say, imagine if I had a car that was built in, um, 2000. So that means that car would be 18 years old. It would still go like a rocket. It would, you know, be this, be that, you know. But if you had a car that was built in 1953, that car would, that would, you know, by the end of the day, that would really be chugging up the hill. So, I mean, sometimes, being 65, I notice if I sit for too long, I fall asleep, just like I did before. Okay. You know, the sleeping was happening, and then I, then the wakefulness was happening, you know.

Now the talking's happening, you know. But yeah, it's interesting to watch. Wow. Yes. You watch it too, do you, Placid? I guess there's a lot of energy goes into trying to coop up your self-image. That's what it is. Well, yeah, because when you're living in the, you know, when you're living in the memory, or you're projecting the me that lives in the memory, or you're projecting the me into the future, or you're having a response to everything that happens, you know, you are energy itself, you are pure intelligence energy itself. So, that's what I was saying to Julia earlier. You know, when the energy is full on, you know, when you plug a computer in, and the energy is working well, and all the operating system works really well.

But if there's, if there's something wrong with the operating system, well, it, you know, it breaks down, it clumps along, it, you know. Some of the programs, yeah, some of the programs don't work. I was trying to show memory across, but there's not much memory to work with, so it's really slow going. You've got a shitty gooey there that was written by Microsoft. Lots of bugs in it. You know what I'm saying? So, it's just interesting to watch how the energy is freed up, I guess. Yeah, because I had that opposite thing today. I was just super tired and so resistant. When I was super tired, I really get stuck, stuck, stuck in the resistance.

And so, and I was just like, so super tired, I had to go get coffee. It's, the story-ing was just . The story-ing. Yeah, I don't know. I love that word. It was just really, yeah, just really resistant anyway. I don't have a specific story, but it would have been. And it was just, too hard-ism. Too hard-ism comes up everywhere strongly. And when I'm really tired, that's likely what it is. So I was like, yeah, it was just notarity really, probably. And coffee was the solution. But I wasn't beating myself up about the coffee, so it was a bit lighter than I might once have been.

So it's kind of the opposite of what you're saying, that when you're really stuck in it, it was stagnant. I've got a question now from someone who's watching. So, and I think we were talking about it with Julia recently. If there is a pattern in health, like overeating or some sort of a pattern or smoking cigarettes or whatever. And this, is there, is it enough to actually be aware of that pattern for it to dissolve or to balance itself? It later dissolved where it went. Yes, exactly. It's a very tricky question because Nisargadatta was smoking till he got cancer and he died of cancer and he was still smoking.

The pattern didn't dissolve. Did he bother recognizing it or not? Well, the truth is there's nobody there to recognize it or not, really. So the pattern is just happening. What is actually good to recognize is the subtle resistance towards the pattern. because it's not only, okay, I have a habit, whatever, I'm addicted to caffeine or whatever, sugar, no, it doesn't matter. And, and the pattern is there and I'm coming now from the idea that, yeah, you know, but this is unhealthy for the body. This body needs balance. It's not good for, you know, it would be good to just recognize when the, when the reaching out for the candy or whatever happens and maybe it will stop.

That very idea, maybe it will stop. It's a very, very subtle resistance. It's like the word yet. Exactly. The, the chocolates are not the problem. The problems are that I don't even admit to myself that I would like that pattern to stop. There is me here and I'm very, I have very strong preference for that pattern not to be there. Of course, it sounds like, you know, but the health of the body, body should know better what is healthy, what is not healthy. Body is the car. What the car can know about the fuel that you put in it. This is all the operating system that is actually getting the fuel.

We will be trying. Thank you. If you live in Brazil where everyone is indoctrinated that sugar is calming you down and children get sugar in water before they go to bed and they're totally happy and calm because that's the collective belief they're in the system, it's fine, you know? Sugar is not unhealthy. It is unhealthy here because of the indoctrination. And yes, it's definitely unhealthy for me and Bob. We got our joints completely wrecked by it. But what if we didn't really know? What if there wasn't collective belief, health by millions of people affirming that idea that overeating or sugar is bad? Like how does the overeating look in the animal's kingdom?

Look at the hippo or elephant. They're big, they eat grass but they're huge and they don't have any problem with themselves. Here there is a model that body should look certain way, should be fit and healthy and I'm not saying that it's not about, you know, it's great if someone has the calling to get really fit and healthy and look after the car, you know, it's wonderful. But what is to be recognized is not the imbalance of behavior because that imbalance in behavior always comes from judgment and comparison. Like if there was nobody else in the world and I was the only one and I was eating and there was nobody to compare with, how would I know I'm even overeating?

I would have no clue. So this is what the bio-computer, body-mind, everything does. But the resistance, if they're that resistance will be dropped the resistance to me overeating from there that you're thinking it's problem exactly so if the pattern drops or pattern doesn't drop who cares who cares Nisargadatta didn't care whether the smoking of cigarettes happens it happened to stop or not he didn't care he knew he was the life and in this body he smoked cigarettes in the other body he's overeating in yet another body he's doing yet something else as life life doesn't care about the particular character in the dream and joining that flow of life but other than being a character this is the invitation and this is the beauty and then well very often byproduct of it that resistance doesn't sustain the pattern anymore so very often the pattern will drop but this is not the recognition is not to manipulate or control the pattern the whether the byproduct will take place or not who cares if there is nobody there who cares it's that's just the bonus and yeah it's talking to a friend Sunday and their particular pattern is that it's when they're generally a bit healthier they're more open to clarity and it's easy for them to kind of do it that way and clarity seems to be showing through more and in my pattern going clarity it's more about but recognition of what's going on and the body just seems to be pointing to secondary and that's fine too there's no you can you can easily call that pattern a belief because it is a belief and ultimate reality of it is things are as they are and everything else on top is just a story we're not layering anything right yeah yeah I get it I'm just I just want to highlight it because it is important whenever I take any stunt anywhere that you know I know this particular body is working much better in recognition and everything if it does this this this and the other those are all thoughts yeah and so we neither of us are doing that so we're all good I know I know I just want to highlight it for everyone else because this it is a vital point and also what Jane mentioned about about the bucket of water and relating to the conceptual image this is this is a very big thing how the conceptual image subtly shows up as that little preferences to how do we look to how how the machine functions and also anything that we've done yesterday or day before we hold on to it like river of life keeps flowing whatever have I overeaten today or yesterday or day before whatever is gone is behind there is no past past is just conceptual so if I really need moment to moment it doesn't matter that the tendency or the pattern can't even be called pattern because to actually call something pattern I do have to related to some points in time when I see the repetition of it even if I'm not a bucket of water pull out of the river and put on the bank with my set fixed ideas and concepts I am life I'm wild I don't know what I've done yesterday I don't care I mean of course I can recall it I can use the tool I can function fully but I want to dwell in it unless there is a necessity of the moment unless I have to bring something or help someone or you know like it's not necessary this sort of relating to the past is is very very very rarely necessary in functioning yesterday is gone and that's that's the beauty of it because this moment is fresh and new and it's happening right now yeah I just get the odd noticing oh hey I care a lot less about what the body's up to and every now and then like once every three months or something oh so do you care less about what the body what's happening to the body yeah yes less of preoccupation with with you with this vehicle because these are the other pointed that all our problems are really problems of the body you know if there was nobody what what problem could you conceive of relationships it was nobody how could you have them relationships yeah but the body in itself is insentient it's a corpse so there is electricity or there is a life essence that is animating it and there is an operation system here the computer that makes sense of everything so really apart from that that the computer that the mind took ownership of the body like mind this is saying this is me I am the mind I am the conceptual image and I own the body this is my body so this is my seeing this is my hearing so those are my problems so now when the riddle is resolved and when the mind when the conceptual image is seen true as just an image and nothing nothing that has any solidity any substance nothing that has nothing that matters then who who owns the mind and who is to obsess about who owns the body who is to obsess about the body about the finances about the relationships about the security in future all that shit who is to worry about that who is to project it who is so so really did the the most important kind of step to do is to investigate and see who owns the body who owns the mind who is the one the imposter that says this is me this is important where this self-obsession comes from and like Jane said this is the this is the bucket of water pulled out of the river something that is stale something that is stinky such a handsome such a handsome animal oh no it's not clicking come on oh yeah and yeah this is very profound also what Jane you pointed out about the energy is so much energy it's like Sabine she said she could hardly sleep when she saw through it for first few months she could hardly sleep and I had the same I remember I was around the world I was traveling going to Spain to my mom and I would wake up and I was like wake up like after two three hours sleep I would like wake up blissful there was no problem in not sleeping I didn't need to sleep a few months that was it was going on like this because that energy that was and I was intensely suffering just before that happened so the suffering is such a is such a drain it's it's like an open pipe through which the life essence just blows out and you're tired and you're depressing you hardly breathe you have no energy really it's the depression oh boy is suicidal or shame or guilt my gosh this this emotions they're so draining it's unbelievable and then suddenly when when that conceptual image gets exposed and it's nothing there it's nothing there to to relate to that drain that that hole through which the energy flows it's not there anymore and that energy sustains the body much more effortlessly there is there is not a problem that you know like even even to conceive of the ideas of past problems like past traumas or past like Terry was telling us the other day you know the stuff that you carry on on your back for all your life and suddenly all gone it drops off because it's not in the moment it's not right now is it here no this moment is reality it was absolutely gorgeous yes because that's that's the life example because yeah it that and and look and what was also beautiful about that is see how how uninvolved he was in the holding of of conceptual image of making impression on people everything is totally given it's totally given from the heart and is used if that could serve I don't care what people know think as somebody doesn't know or they would who cares it is really to serve is really to give away this is the selflessness this is where the self involvement is completely absent it doesn't matter how it is going to be heard or taken there is an offering here because there is nobody there I serve you I'll do anything that you you know like it's the I life is serving itself so I have lots of little ego problems and then I seem to quickly realize that you know it's just a story you know it's like good psychotherapy myself coming here it's just to help me be a lot more relaxed there you go there you go there you go but you know it's it's the recognition I do usually it takes moments moments so that's what Bob says in you cognize the emptiness yeah so you come in cognizing emptiness whatever it is because you know there's no me for it to land yeah it's nowhere to land sort of make that assumption there's no me and if that's if there's no me that's what it's like you said something really profound earlier yeah just trying to think of the words that you use maybe you can help me it was something along the lines of you didn't say I don't know or I haven't think this is something along the lines about I haven't realized who I am or I haven't experienced what others seem to have experienced do you recall saying that yeah so so in that comment is the statement I don't know yes correct yes yeah don't you think that's really quite profound yes because how do you know from what reference point are you using to say I don't know what's watching uh-huh so yes so so there's a there's a there's a there's a there's a knowing there's a knowing that you don't know yes so there's a there's a so you must know you must actually know yeah so so there's so there's so there's so there's a there's a knowing that there is this so there's a knowing in it and then there's the conceptual me that's saying I don't know yeah but there's enough that but there's something prior to that yeah there's back from that so there's already a knowing you know to say to say to say that I don't know is fucking profound yeah from what point of what from what point of knowingness is that being said yeah yeah but it's it's a 180 I often I often use that expression it is it's a complete it's a complete 180 yeah there's a there's already a knowing if you didn't know that you didn't know you the question wouldn't even come up or the comment wouldn't even come up I don't know wouldn't even come up wouldn't be there would it you have to know that I don't know but that to come up and that's actually the the supreme knowing because it's non-conceptual knowing because when you when you say I know and you have the story to tell that's conceptual when you say I don't know the mind is already left behind but there is the knowing about mind being left behind so this is the place to actually stay and abide as much as as possible because this is the place where the mystery shows up where the beauty shows up because you know mind will always assume the labels and you will have a little yeah not knowing is that that part of me is still unconscious so good what the what the me does because I don't know so then what the me does there you go whatever you want to call it then goes in search for the answer I don't know so I've got to find out which perpetuates the me or which perpetuates the me or which perpetuates the ego it keeps it alive sit with and stay with and be comfortable with I don't know I haven't sort of got to the point where I'm going to see that's so walk try to ride the bike I sort of follow that you know this is awareness but if the awareness is trying to find the awareness and seeking and so to never realize the awareness yes seeking is you're just hanging around in your mind and and and and the fully blown realization is all around and you kind of go into the tiny little loop and the awareness is before the story yeah so the awareness is before the dialogue you know so there's the awareness and all things that are you know and and there's just the awareness and then the story comes in and then the ownership of the story comes in so what's watching the story well that's where I'm at yeah and where and where is that one that's watching the story can you find him so what's left just relax enjoy the ride what's going on from the cat yeah yeah a bit of a cat not much in terms of any kind of head stuff yeah that question that was asked earlier by the person who's online is it still there the person is there is the question still there I can't tell right now because I can't see actually something that balance in here no is it something along the lines of will awareness straighten out the body functions was it yes it was something about you see if you have some sort of a bad patterns or habits of smoking or overeating or something then if the recognizing that pattern is enough to dissolve it beautiful I don't know if she's still there I hope she is yeah she is if she's still there yeah the answer is the question the answer is actually the question there's no answer for that question yeah there's no answer because whatever answer you give ain't gonna be you the answer is the question and what I would say to whoever it is that's asking that question find out yeah yeah you find out beautiful I love it you find out instead of asking us you find out have a look yeah gorgeous you have a look yeah the answer is in your question yeah you find out yeah beautiful and the other thing straight away popped in my mind when you read that question off was who wants to know who wants to know there's a it's a beautiful description of the split of duality yeah if I become aware will all these bodily functions correct themselves yeah yes so really there's more really there's more importance placed on the body than there is on the actual awareness that's it because if there was more earnestness in their body gives them more awareness but then they are asking about awareness more than the body yeah so they get it somewhat that a better body works for them for awareness though and for me a less better body but focus on awareness in other ways works for awareness yeah and both our questions would be around awareness yeah and this is not to judge the question or anything like that it is actually quite the opposite is to point out look your heart could be with awareness there is further to go just you know ask better questions this is very loving and compassionate comment it's gorgeous it's yeah beautiful even in the topic area shows that there's more torture like coming in on awareness you know but you see you know when you start looking at it awareness you coming with your mind awareness is nothing it's not interesting okay it is something that they promise like bliss enlightenment whatever naturally the concern is with with whatever is known on the level of the mind it's nothing wrong with that this is the natural process that yeah how do I get my business my friend Anja is here she's got a lot of different things on her plate you know she's an artist and she's got a business and she's got she's got some hopes for the life or relationship or children or something those are all things that are valid in the appearance but they they eternally unimportant if your heart is with the consciousness or the worst yes or the awareness yeah whatever whatever you are yeah God love I like clarity love yes clarity is not thinking about it and that's why that feels best yeah not thinking feels best it's not a thing at all yeah it's just whatever it's it's less there's resistance in that moment I think what Terry said before is the is the really good pointer is that when when you said you didn't know saying you don't know well where did that come from beautiful yeah I think that's the perfect pointer to deny which have you look to find something yeah it is you recognize it's just a boundless definition it's a boundless you can't find it really it's unfortunate to try speaking as impressed to define anything and like other people yeah

At Pete and Caliani, Sabine came up with a really good one.

It's like trying to put a rather sticky tape, you know, point of things, what do you call it? Post-it notes. Post-it notes. Post-it notes. Trying to put it in space, you know. Where's the boundary of your post-it notes? You're trying to label it in space. That's blew apart any kind of labeling I did after that. It's like by what light? By what light are you aware of darkness? Yeah. Ooh, I love that question. What light are you aware of darkness? By what light are you aware of darkness? Yeah, beautiful. That just shuts my mind up. So then we come up with an answer for that.

Good. Shuts my mind up. Yeah, that's the point. Similar to, I don't know. No, there's a knowing there that you don't know. There's a knowing. Well, what's watching that comment? It has to appear upon something. Remember that old one, Terry? Do you choose to think a thought or does a thought appear upon you? That's a great one. What was it, the one that you were saying the other day about now? Oh, it's just saying time is a concept. So there is only now, now, now, now, now, now, now, now, now, now, now, now. Another way of looking at that is when is now, not now?

When is now, not now? Really answer that. Ooh, let me literally sit with that for a while. That's the problem with these meetings is you guys go really fast. What is now, not now? I have a hard time with that one. Who said I have a hard time with that one? Let's see. Don't try to figure it out. Always because it doesn't exist. What is now, not now? Everything that's happened has always been now. That's right. Always will be. Always has and always will be. Another way of looking at that, people always say, live in the moment. Try not living in the moment. Yes. Yeah, that's a box.

It's the same. It's the same thing. When is now, not now? I just like this question better to get people to do stuff. When is now a good time to get started on that? When is now, not now? You like that question too? When is now a good time for you to do this? Yes, it's never. It's because there is no now. You're like, is it nip, ap, whoop? Where is it? There's no boundary. There's no boundary. There's no boundary. If you're not thinking about it, what boundary can possibly be replaced? Because there's no thought process happening. But there is an immediacy. It's just nothing.

It's been labeled, so there's no... It's an immediacy without a mission. Yeah. Yeah, whether you call it now or you call it immediacies. Because I don't have the... Because I don't have the... Yeah, have the words to describe it. What I was calling it was a microsecond. Now, now, now, now, now, now. I can't say how fast enough a microsecond. I think in physics they call it Planck. What I thought about it previously is that, you know, like the past is a fraction of a trillionth of a second ago. Yes. Yeah. Okay. And the future is a fraction of a trillionth of a second from now.

Yeah. You know. So, if you... You really can't even... Like, probably the only way you could be fully in this now moment is without... Is only experiencing. Well, the body is always in there. Because... Because if I'm going into any thought about... Now, it's already done. So, just be with what is and... Now. That's it. Now. Unless they can't bat it now. Yeah. Now. Just be with what is now. Now and again. Now. And tell me... And tell me... Apart from that, Julie, apart from that, what is there? Nothing. Right. Right. Nothing. Absolutely. Nada. Only that. Fresh and clear. Ever-present. Right here, right now. They're beautiful.

And that's what you are. I know. The beautiful bit on the end. Touche. Yeah. Just kidding. But the thing is, you can't deny it. What? That you're only now. Yeah. Now. You can't deny it. That's what it is. Because any other time than now is a thought, or a memory, which... Which is only the description. Yeah. Well, this is... So, let's jump into duality for a second. Yeah? What is it that takes you out of the now? Nothing. Thought. Thought. Yeah. That's all. Mm. Concept. Mental image. It's just a fucking image. It's just a mental image. It's constructed now. And we take that mental image.

That's why it's called a dream. We take that mental image to be real. And as soon as we're stuck there, we're not here. Mm-hmm. We're... We are actually here, but we don't realize it. Right. Right. Right. Well, you're in, aren't you? You're here, but you're... There. There. It's like trying to get... It's like trying to get the attention of somebody that's totally engrossed in a TV program. Whatever it is. Whatever's shown on the screen of a TV. A movie, whatever. That's right. And they're totally, completely engrossed in it. Yeah. Like my granddaughter. Nothing else exists. Like my granddaughter. And I say, Lily. Lily. Lily. Lily.

Hey, do you want a cup of tea? And they don't hear you. Yeah. Yeah. Because they're totally fixated. All the attention is on that or on that. It's the same. And you can't be in this. It's the same. When you're in this. Mm. You can't be right here, right now, when you're in this. And you can't be in here. But the background is still the absolute. So it doesn't even really matter. Yeah. If you are engrossed in something really. Oh, no, no. But can you... You can be in this while you're in this, can't you? I'm just saying. I'm just saying. No. Thought, feeling, and emotion.

You can't be in your head while you're in your heart. Well, try it. I mean... But you live in your heart. And you've got... What's amazing about this room, folks, is that so many here are already living. So you can't... I get... I can get that you can't be in your heart while you're in your head, get that done. But I would think that you could be in your head while you're in your heart. Because you're always in your heart so... You're not two. You're not even one. Can you see what that... Can you see what that is? Can you just get a glimpse of what your head just did?

Just a glimpse of what it did. So interested in what's going on in here. It's more interested in what goes on in here than just looking in my eyes. Or me looking in your eyes. Just being aware. There you are. Here I am. No story. No story. Nothing. Present. We always are. Watching without naming. See, a lot of the problem is that we think we're the doer of all the thinking that goes on in our head. We think we're doing it. We think we're thinking it. Yeah? We're always strategizing and trying to think of this and trying to think of that. I need to be here and I need to be there.

I need to be doing this. I need to understand that. I need to let go of that. The head just goes off. Okay? But the problem is that we think or we believe that we are the thinker. That I'm responsible for that. That I'm me is doing that. And it's so easy to check to see if there's any truth in that at all. It's so easy. Just sit there for a minute and think nothing. Just a lousy minute. Well, that's hard. Why? Why? Why? Well, I could do it in deep sleep in the middle of the night. That happens all the time. Every night. Why is it hard to do it now?

It's... It's... It's... Why is it hard to do it now? It's... It's... It's... It's really just a habitual pattern. I guess it's... I suppose it's not hard. I suppose it's... I don't know why it's hard. Why is it hard? I don't know. Because you've identified with it your whole life. You believe it is you. You believe that whatever it is that is manifesting in your head is you. And it's so difficult to let go of that. If I let go of that, who will I be? What is this nothing that these people are talking about? It doesn't sound very attractive to me. Like, who wants to be nothing?

Which is what the head will do with that. It will do that with it. Yeah? But if... If you're taking ownership of the thoughts that are going on in your head, in other words, if you believe that you're the creator of all that, that you're the thinker of all that, then you've got to be able to identify something that is separate from that thinking process that's going on, that's now saying, now I'm going to choose to think this. Do you understand that? You sure? Do you understand that? If you're responsible for all the thoughts that are going on in your head, yeah? Yeah. Then there's a me that's doing it.

What is it that's claiming ownership of that? What? Tell me what that is. There isn't anyone. There isn't anyone. Yeah, right. There's not. There's not. It just happens. It just happens. And the thought of you is just another memory. It's a persona, an image, a phantom. Yeah. And you really, really need to see that. You really... I have. Yep. I have. Great. In the past or right now? Yeah, good question. Good question. Yeah, that's the only moment. Right now. Yeah. Right now. Good. It happens so quickly. It happens so quickly. The thoughts just... There's nothing separate from it that's dictating what you're going to think next.

It just happens. That's why, if I say to you, just sit there for one minute, try not to think. Yeah, I can't do that. Why not? Because thoughts are just happening. They're just happening. And your identity is contained within those thoughts that are just happening. You know, me I'm talking about. Or the ego, if we want to call it that. It's contained in those thoughts. Yes. The memory of yourself. That are just happening. The memory of yourself. The idea of yourself. The memory of the idea. Yeah. It's all contained in those thoughts. That's why you get buffeted around by what goes on in your head.

It's like a Dodger car. You've got an idea of who you believe yourself to be. If I sat here and said that I think you're the complete opposite to who you believe yourself to be, there would be an offence that would just naturally arise in your thinking. Or a rejection. Yeah? Or might it be, yeah, that's your concept. There wouldn't be an actual analysis of whether or not there is an actual me there. whether or not the me or the ego, the me-go. The me-go. The me-go. The me-go. I love it. I like that. Yeah. The me-go. The me-go. The me-go. The me-go. Yeah. The me-go.

The me-go. because because um yeah they really need that attention and that cuddle the poor kid is abandoned whole day alone telling people about what i've learned you know i just enjoy chattering about non-duality it's too cool fun super fun and i've been told by because i want to teach this i want it i just love it we teach best what we need to learn right so i i love it but i've been told that i go too fast way too fast and so i'm getting a taste of my own medicine you wouldn't say that i go too fast i wouldn't have said that no well you haven't heard me try to explain it on your own so that's exciting i know i know what he means when he says that see going too fast you actually just we were talking about this earlier you go into explaining without tasting it and embracing it yourself because you have such a strong and smart mind that you right away when the glimpse shows up you quickly say it instead of just keeping it embracing and savoring it experiencing embodying it going too fast but you're going away from the experiencing you're going to the mind expressing it it's the time for expression comes expression comes from different place not from the top of the head it comes from really embodying it really abiding in it because you you're so generous you know with sharing you always you find something beautiful you want to give it away that's gorgeous that's absolutely beautiful but it's counterproductive in this in this investigation because you're actually leaving investigation it's just like like he he pointed out that how quickly you wanted to work out in the mind whether you are in the head where you are in the mind quickly quickly understand it conceptually explain it explain it i want to know i want to grasp this is the mind heart doesn't have these questions heart doesn't give a crap doesn't give a crap doesn't need to yeah the the core of the essence is just savoring the being it's good to recognize that pattern it's nothing wrong about it it's just a pattern everyone came out here first time with very very strong pattern of trying to grasp it it's okay and and once you start seeing that pattern where are you looking from you are witnessing the pattern you are the knowing of it you're beyond the pattern i know it and i'll just give you a little bit more just a little just a tiny thing that i was talking with you about last time is completely time bound completely time bound so we come back to when it's now not now never correct correct because now there's no time it's just now now now now yeah yeah yeah just now so even if you just you know sit with what i was talking to you about last time we were together in relation to time what is time what is that what is it really like what is it really where does it exist is it a thing is it something can someone hand it to me can someone point it to me can someone show me what time is hello darling hello it's just an idea it's just yeah really just it really is just an idea yeah past is past it's a human construct it's designed to in the future whenever the future arrives it arrives now there's no such thing as a future so as you're talking about the past it's just an idea you're talking about it now so it's all right it's all right to have it as an idea it's fine but but understanding that the the whole construct of that me or that ego is all based on the belief that time exists that it is real all of it all of it and it doesn't take a rocket scientist or even a physicist to work out that if the present is all there is there is there is no time yet time can be used as a concept as a tool providing you're aware that that's what's that's what it is providing you're aware that i'm not that but it's just a tool that's totally fine same when you're talking same when you're talking about yourself to other people who aren't uh into non-duality you're talking about i did this i did that i went here i did this or me with you what i was doing 10 years ago knowing that it's only a story that's where you're using the mind instead of the mind using you but even if i'm sharing with you what happened 10 years ago i'm sharing it with you now always now it's always just now where we get in trouble with the me or the ego uh particularly people that have had um trauma in their life you know or great loss or great pain or psychological pain physical abuse it's always coming from some other well it's it's an imaginary thing it's always imagined it's it might have been real when it happened yes there's two reactions in the brain well i've been real when it happened but all i've got of it now is just a memory of it and even now isn't even real is it i mean like even now isn't even real don't think about it too much no it's just just isn't yeah it is it just is what it is it's just stuff going down yeah because analyzing whether it's real or not it will bring you to the you see it will bring you back to the head yeah it's the less thinking really the less thinking the more freedom the less because of course the necessary functional thinking will be happening regardless apart from you but trying to work out anything anything whether time is real now is real doesn't matter like stay with i don't know who cares who cares that's the freedom like find comfort in that i don't know i don't care and because then you're actually dropping off from the mind to the heart and you hear five senses wide open it's good to catch that moments when when the mind wants to contribute and it's nothing wrong about that it's quite beautiful it's nothing you know it's it's you could love it you know that little that little sweet little thing called mind wanting to be helpful you know like nice mind yes sweet little ego but i want to i want to help too you know i want to drop this i want to keep you safe i want to keep you whatever it's sweet just recognize it don't take it very seriously and give it a hug it's not a monster no it's just like you know like it's part of the content it's just inner dialogue like a sound of the tram or whatever but recognize it and don't don't follow it like you don't follow the tram as it passes with your mind so don't follow this one either and it i like the example of how impossible it is to define anything so if you're coming to australia you know are you arrived in australia when you go over the land are you arrived when you land on the airport are you arriving in the gate are you arrived oh i arrived as soon as we flew around yeah everybody's going to have totally different makeup bullshit when we're here oh no yeah well i remember my first trip impossible it's impossible what i'm saying is without going into stories it's just impossible to know anything yeah well and i did not arrive in australia until i saw the sydney opera house that was when i was here it's like i had to be in front of the opera house thanks i'm only your here for julia this time i'm leaving on the morning of the 23rd yeah just to make it to bob's birthday and cure hangover when's bob's birthday 21st july yes what's that making saturday for the 22nd depending on where you are 1990 is that's right yeah he's the cancer leo