This transcript was made by speech-recognition software, so names and some words may be misheard. The recording is the original: watch on YouTube.
I was running to the police. I can see me there. Sorry? Yeah, I had headphones. Yeah, yeah. Where were you? Right at the front way. I don't know, we probably should start. Judith should be here in a minute, but, yeah, probably just... Can you say your name so we all know each other? Oh, I'm Julia. Sean. Tony. Karina. Tony. Jocelyn. Carl. Karina. Jane. Michael. Cut. And that is Judith, is it? Here, here and there. Thank you. Three options. Don't worry about it. There's a chair there, there's a chair. And there's a beer, okay? One here, one here and one there. I'm fine. Thanks. Yeah, so we have Cole's friends that are newbies, so I will start a little bit gentle.
I won't be just throwing at you the hard stuff that we are all familiar. Yeah, so I just came back from work where I was helping a man who is disabled. He's on a wheelchair. And he had a fall yesterday. He fell off the wheelchair. So, he's got big bruises over his face and in the head and the ribs and he's in a great pain. But this man is, he is a gorgeous man because he's got devotion, because he believes in Jesus. It doesn't matter what is it. But you know, he's got his heart put in the belief. So, because whatever happens now to him, he believes this is thy will.
This is the will of Absoluta, the will of God, the will of Jesus, whoever it is. So, because he is so much in love with the reality, he's gorgeous. He's always at peace. And there is not much ego in this man. I can't, you know, I'm coming from a completely different angle. But when I see him and I see him every fortnight, we totally meet because he loves God. And he believes that everything is the will of God. So, the weather is, let's say, is freezing cold and it's cold at home and a fuse is just blew off. Yeah, but you know, that's still the will of God.
Like, who am I to question whatever is happening, you know? So, he is, he's really completely blown off by the devotional love towards God of his understanding. And then, of course, he has to hold that understanding in his mind because where is Jesus if you don't think about him? Where is it really? I mean, you have to think of Jesus to be able to love Jesus. But when, when we actually meet because he knows that Bob is doing the talks, he knows that I'm covering up for Bob right now. So, he says, what are you going to be talking about today? And I say, Bruce, you know exactly.
You know, I'm going to be bringing up that omnipresence, omnipotence, omniscience that is responsible precisely, as you said, for your fall and for your recovery. And for the, for the freezing weather. And we are on the same page. I don't have any picture and the image of in my mind about the higher power or God who is male or female or Jesus who is prophet or something. But when we speak about all there is, when we speak about the omnipotence, omnipresence, omniscience, which is exactly his understanding of God and is practical. He doesn't, he, he holds the image of Jesus in his head, but he doesn't hold the image of omnipresence.
This is the knowing. He knows that where God is not. His God is everywhere. It is, it is breathing him. And I did precisely ask him these questions to see how close we are on the same page. So everything is God's will, right? So the weather is God's will, right? Yes. So the fact that you didn't break your neck falling off is God's will. Yes. So you can actually be grateful God is looking after you even in the moments when there's God flipping you over that wheelchair. Yes. So this, meeting people who are spiritually engaged in any sort of a religion, but they are serious about it and they are not doing it only in the head, but they really feel it in their heart.
Whatever they are calling it. Whether it is higher power or whether it is God or whether it is Jesus. If they know deeply in the heart that their power is part of a greater power. That I, Bruce, the man who, who I was just working with half an hour ago. You know, he doesn't have any power apart from God. He doesn't have any will apart from God. He is totally happy for God to do whatever the God wishes. So, no ego. No ego. This man is in love. He is in love with what is. He is always positive. He is always happy. Even though he is, he is coming from the tradition that is full of beliefs.
How about if we could try and get it to the next level and find the same place without any belief required. And this is the way, actually Melanie inspired me on the last meeting and Max on the meeting before, with the idea that, the cardinal idea, the idea that sells the books and that sells Bob all over the world. What's wrong with right now if we don't think about it? And now, what is it? Is there, like, if we would want to, well, okay, let me tell you that. Bob had a fall also. Because it's okay. He is being shifted. He is being transferred to the rehab.
When did he fall? Yeah, well, I could have told you when you were flying, going to the airport, but I didn't really want to worry you. I didn't, I didn't, yeah, because that wasn't, it wasn't certain yet. What is the amount of damage, the ultrasounds, x-rays, MRIs, everything was in progress. So it wasn't really a time to tell you we don't know yet. What's going on? And he had, he had the DMT experience. He was basically getting out of it. He was, he was in a place where he was actually touching on near death experience. He says he was having this, you know, like contraction, expanding consciousness, bringing up completely, completely different reality to this.
And state in which you don't really care whether you're going to take the next breath or not, because it doesn't really matter. You know, it takes you where it takes you. It takes you to whatever we used to call death. Who cares? So he's been going through this with, I was happy for him, but I'm even more happy that he didn't go all the way. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So it was, you know, it's like when you're 90 year old and you fall and you hit your head and there are blood vessels, you know, and he had a history of mini strokes. It, it may be, it may be, it may be very, very serious.
You know, the little blood vessel that blows off. It may be, it may be fatal, but God, whatever, Jesus looked after him. And, and really, where is, where is the story now? It's, it's, where is the story of, of Bruce and Jesus? And where is the story of Bob falling if we don't think about it? Because we could actually play with that and actually test the reality, applying that very, very simple statement and contemplate what really is and what really exists and what is happening and what is conceptual, what is thinking. Because where is Bob if I don't think about him? Like, is he, is he in this immediacy right now if the thought of him is not here?
Can I taste, touch, smell? No. He's not. Like, where is, even, even, you know, something, this is really, this is really confronting when we, when we think about it because Bob is applying it to any concepts. Like, is there a past if we don't think about it? Where is yesterday? Where is the, where is our childhood when we don't think about it? And it is not to deny the past or childhood or any experiences. No, it is only to, to, to be aware that they only exist in thinking. They are only in the head. So, basically, if we don't bring up past memories which we do in the moment right now, they don't really have physical reality.
They don't really have an existence. Is, is the baby distracting you? No. He is. Yeah. Yes. Oh, he needs some love. Oh boy. Yeah, because of the temporary circumstances of Bob being, having his spare parts installed. We had, yeah, we had the kitties suffering. I like it. I like having the kitties here. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And they, yeah, I just can't deprive them from that little bit of attention because they stay alone all day. Anyway, so. I'm distracting you. I'm sorry. No, no, no, no. It's alright. It's spontaneous. Yeah. He, he's distracting. Anyway, so, what, what is there if we don't think about it? What is real?
What is actually happening? What do we really know without any thinking? Because it is a little bit like, you know, I was supposed to be a bit gentle. And, and talk about how the religions meet and how this is all the same once, once we recognize the oneness of everything. Whether we call it God or we call it whatever. It's just one essence. Like there, God is having mental images. Like somehow because we were brought up one way or the other, it may be kind of associated. Like for me, even the idea that it was a male that, you know, it's kind of yuck. It's just, gosh, it's like what, what an insult for God to call him anything, to call him.
But if we call it life, it's, it has the same attributes. It's equally omnipresent, omnipotent, omniscient. It's equally everywhere and it's equally the total power. Yeah, so it's the power that is animating this cat. Because this is life. The life is digesting his food. It's, it's, it's making him restless right now because he was so lonely. So when we call it life, Bob actually calls it intelligence energy. And I found recently in a garage a page of a, of a writing from probably 1996 or something. When he actually explains how the intelligence energy, how that vocabulary is just a word. It's not it. Life is not it.
God is not it. Nothing is really it. It can't be made to a thing because it isn't a thing. The life that is animating the whole appearance. The, the essence of the energy that makes every thought or every feeling or every subject, object, everything appear on the screen of awareness is not a thing. It, it can't be separated. Nothing can be separated. That's why they call it one without the other. So, yeah, I don't know where I was going with it. Yeah, but, but that, that very one thing is animating. And it's, uh, and it's animating every one of us. So Bob calls that intelligence because intelligence, uh, is knowing.
But the knowing is actually not even knowing of anything. It's not knowing the objects. It's not knowing the appearance. It's the self knowing intelligence. So that's why it's different from intelligent. Yes. Yes. It's different from intelligent because intelligent is maybe knowing this and knowing that. And intelligence is just the knowing. That's right. And intelligence is actually a description of something, you know. You kind of evaluate it. You take it to the mind and you put it. This is stupid. This is smart. Okay. So this is like you measure your IQ. It's somewhere between the line, you know, between the two extremes. So that's, uh, but Bob calls it not just intelligence.
He adds the word energy because intelligence is kind of, he explains it as a static aspect, a static awareness of being or knowing, but the energy is a movement. So now there is an activity of knowing. So now the whole appearance is also being known. So it is static and dynamic aspect. And again, this is not what it is because what it is, we can never ever find out because to find out we would have to separate ourselves from it, which is impossible because this is just one. So I am that. You are that. Everyone is that. Like what could not be that? Where would that be?
Like everything is the, is the content of that space like awareness. consciousness, everything is being known by itself, by this space like awareness, consciousness, cognizing emptiness. So what is outside of space? Who is outside of space? Who would be qualifying to be something apart or something distant? Well, only a dream and only when believed and only seemingly so. Because if I construct the mental image and I call it myself, Katharina, and I will believe that that mental image is somehow separated from God or from life. I have to hold it in my head, in my mind all the time and I have to keep re-hypnotizing myself with that idea.
Because the moment I drop the thought, back again. What do I know about conceptual image if I don't think about it? What do I even know about my own face if I don't think about it? Like this is the invitation. This is something that could be really put on, tried as a little fun sort of a gymnastic. Fun, even a practice, the forbidden word. But it is a play. Why is it forbidden word? Because people argue that, oh yeah, but who is practicing? Who is to do the inquiry? Who is to check if there is a mind? Who is to check who am I? Isn't it me that is checking who am I?
Sure, if you believe that. But is that true? It's not. I mean, you know, I can believe there is a me doing whatever. I can believe there is me speaking. But is that true? Is there a me? So if someone is trying to throw the stones at non-duality because the me has to investigate if there is no me. There is no me. There is only a belief that I investigate. No, it's only a belief if that is questioned. The activity of investigation is just like any other activity. Just like activity of seeing. Who is doing the seeing? Who is doing anything at all? Like is the tree doing the growing?
Is the cat doing all these antics? Is the heart doing the beating? Is there any entity that is controlling any of what is happening? It's just spontaneous. It's the wind blowing itself. Who is doing that? So there is an activity and there is an idea that someone owns the activity. That someone does the activity. But that very idea can be questioned. And if that idea is questioned, suddenly the activity doesn't change. Everything looks exactly the same. People are the same. Behaviors, patterns are the same. Personality is the same. Unfortunately, there is one thing unavailable. The self-obsession. Nothing is that serious anymore. Nothing is that painful anymore.
Nothing is that important anymore. Nothing is so much about me and my story. And life gets so much lightness to it then. It becomes surprising. It becomes much more alive. Because instead of focusing into the story of me and relating everything to the story of me, Now is much, much more attention available for hearing, seeing, tasting, touching, smelling. The world is showing itself to itself as alive. Everything is alive. The trees are alive. They don't do their growing, but this is happening. So this is why I actually like to call it life or life essence, because in that perspective nothing's dead. Like, even a carpet isn't really dead because the molecules are dancing, you know, the atoms are dancing in it, the particles are dancing, it's all movement.
It's nothing static about it. But maybe we should get back to what's wrong with right now, because, yeah, that's a beautiful way to look at it. Because when we have the clear idea what is happening in this moment and what is the overlay of thinking on this, when we see them as two different, completely different layers, like there is a bare dream, like we go back to the senses and there is whatever the content of seeing, whatever is seen at this moment, content of hearing, the sounds, content of sensations, you know, back on the chair or whatever, sensations. And then, and of course, smelling and all the others.
And now on top of it, there is this sixth called by Buddhism, it's called sixth sense thinking. So there is an overlay of thinking. And the overlay of thinking often comes up like, ah, what is she talking about? Oh, no, no, this one, I heard it before, it kind of sounds similar to this, what this one says. Yeah, that's already covering up the pure, pure seeing, hearing, tasting, touching, smelling, pure being really fully awake in this moment, because this thoughts habitually will steal all the stream of attention. And now, suddenly, we are not aware of the content anymore, we don't see any new things anymore, because the thinking has totally stolen the attention.
And the thinking is, there is nothing wrong with that. It is just to be recognized. By any means, it is not to be stopped. It is not to be changed. It can't. It can't. That's how, you know, it's just like eyes see. That's the same way mind vibrates in thoughts. It's just like the skin is producing heat, or is producing sweat, that the mind is producing thoughts. That's the function of the organ. It's just vibrating. Now, this can be recognized. And when this is recognized, the slavery to the thinking is nowhere near as what we kind of used to. It's nowhere near. Nobody can hurt us.
Thought is being a thought. It may be a beautiful thought, it may be a positive thought, it may be a negative thought, it may be thought, oh, I'm worthless, or I'm ugly, or I'm too slim, or too tall, or too fat, or whatever. Or maybe a nice thought, oh, what a beautiful day. Oh, I wonder what is my mother thinking about me right now. Oh, I remember her singing the lullaby. This is, again, a thought. Where is my mother right now? Is she in this immediacy in any other way, unless in the imaginary thinking? And imagination can be very vivid. I can recall her voice.
And this is kind of, yeah, it's very compelling. Like, how wonderful device is this one. You can think, you can imagine things, and it stands almost right before your eyes. You can recall the details of things because of the device, because of this smart computer that has all these memory files, and it relates to the memory files. And it's very, very useful. But if it's not recognized for what it is, the world is covered by this false sense of certainty, false sense of security, coming from the idea that I know what everything is, because I have a label for it. Like, do I really? Do I really?
Do I really know what this is? If I don't think about it? Sorry. I can't get off. My apologies. Yeah, so if I don't think about it, it's not a glass anymore. Because everything I actually know about this glass comes from the memory. I know that it will break. I know that it contains water. I know stuff about this water. But now, the mystery, the mystery of that is covered. Now, there's nothing special about it. It's boring. Yeah, like, give me something different. Give me something new. This is crap. Now, I'm missing out on the magnificence of this piece of thing, of this miracle of existence.
It could have been nothing. And this miracle piece of existence, it contains the whole world. Whole world, whole universe contributed. The glass used to be a sand on some beach some time ago, you know, because that's how the glass is produced. The sun is shining on the beach and it's, and it's, gosh, how many people contributed, manufacturing it. Like, all world, moment to moment, second to second, created that miracle. But I label it glass. Now I know what it is. It doesn't really interest me anymore. Now give me something more. Now I go to the head and cover something up. And, yeah, again, it's nothing wrong.
This is how the, how the universe functions. But when is recognized? When is recognized? By who? That is me recognizing the thinking? No. When it is recognized. And recognition is activity. Just like seeing is the activity. I don't do the seeing. I wouldn't know how to do that. It's like seeing the whole universe contributed to the fact of seeing. Not only my parents that they met and the food that they have eaten to grow the body. Not the pleasure that they had. Not only that. The fact that the fact that the whole evolution created that magnificent device, that little camera that can send the signal to a brain.
And for eons that humanity was carrying on. And again, of course, this is a story. But the whole universe, to actually tell the story of the universe, we use time. And we use past. And we use all that happened till now. Because how else could we even conceive of the totality if not by chunking it by time and space? Yeah, there is this space. There is this space. There is some other space. There is a space that is Africa. There is a time that was, you know, ancient times. That is, this, this wonderful, magnificent computer cannot grasp the totality unless it segregates it and chunks it and introduce the idea of separate spaces, space here, space there, time, and then there is a space time.
So the whole magnificence can be kind of grasped. But it isn't. It isn't. It's always only minute expression and one at the time. And it's only when the attention goes to the head. But what happens when it doesn't? Because the real mystery that can be fully embraced moment to moment doesn't need to rely on the computer here. It doesn't need to rely on the idea of time, space, or on any idea. But for the mind, it has to. For the mind, the idea of grasping. And again, who is grasping? It's just a recognition. Like the consciousness or the awareness recognizes its all magnificence by basically relaxing all the destructions.
It relaxes the thinking. It relaxes the thinking and it rests in the singularity of being. Going back to the what's wrong with right now, Bob likes to quote Bunky, everything is perfectly resolved in the unborn mind. The mind. The mind that hasn't been born. The mind that hasn't been born. The mind that didn't cover up the reality as we know it. The mind that didn't make interpretations and stories of everything. Why exchange that pure bliss of being, that pure peaceful state of being for the thought, for imagination. It's not necessary. Well, but it happens until it doesn't. Yet, the invitation is to recognize. Because it's relatively easy to recognize thinking for thinking.
It's not available 24-7. Sometimes the habitual thoughts go on and there is worry about tomorrow or about future or about work or about whatever. Or there is analyzing past experiences, or explaining things. Ah, this comes because of that. And it's like a broken machine. It's so accustomed to that type of an activity that it just carries on. But there will be moment of awakening. Ah, that was just thinking. Okay. Right. So the more, the more we are exposed to those type of ideas, the more there is a possibility that these moments of recognition, the moments of awakening from the stream of thoughts will show up.
And, ah, that was just a thought. Oh, okay. Yeah, this is just imaginary. And now, doing the Bob's things. What's real if I don't think about it? What passes the test of reality? What's wrong if I don't think about it? That seems to be, because everything needs to be seen through, even once. But that seems to build up the sense of confidence. Like, even through imagination, because this was a thing that I was kind of exploring and exploiting when I learned about this. Like, even going back to the past moments of pain. What was wrong if I didn't have the ideas that it should be different in these very moments?
What was wrong if I didn't have imagination that this is wrong, it shouldn't have happened this way, it should be different? If that was unavailable, there was nothing ever wrong. And I checked probably a couple of hundreds different events going through my diary, going through the most traumatic things in my life and the most painful things. Shit. Yeah. I've never found the exception. Never. Ever. With the idea, what's wrong with right now if I don't think about it? There is, I never found a problem in anywhere else rather than in thinking. Never. Regardless of physical circumstances. Regardless of anything. So now, if thinking makes the whole dream of suffering, how do we actually see what's the difference, what's really, what's really happening, what's really present in this moment and what the thought puts on top of it?
So what's really happening if I don't think? Now, is the room there without me thinking about it? I wouldn't call it room, but it very much is. Okay. So this is the content of present moment. But how about my mother? Where is she when I don't think about it, when I don't have mental image of her? Not in the immediacy. Okay. So she's a thought. She doesn't have real existence in this moment. She may in some future time, but again, future time doesn't have any existence in this moment. So if we stay with what is, the attention doesn't go to distractions. It doesn't go to what isn't.
But my mother, my mother, and I love my mother. She's my great friend and she's wonderful, but she is a distraction right at this moment because she's not there. I'm using her as an example. She'll forgive me. And because I assume every one of you had mother at some point. Some of you might still have. So it is something that is close to the heart enough. And if that is questioned, if that is acknowledged, that's kind of a big step ahead. That she doesn't exist in any other place than in my thinking right at this moment. And now we can construct the world and we can believe the reality of the world.
And of course, there is Spain on the other side of the world and she's having a house there. And regardless of me thinking or not, she is in there. But this is all thoughts. Those are thoughts. The experiencing of this moment doesn't contain Spain. If I don't think about Spain, Spain doesn't exist. Now the people would start crucifying me for nihilism. This is nihilistic. This is denial, you know. What do you mean? What do you mean? The world war that didn't happen? Holocaust. If you don't think about it, it didn't happen. No, I'm not saying that. I don't have a clue about any sort of other stuff will happen in a thinking.
And when it's believed, we all know how real it is when it's believed. And then why to say it didn't happen? Like we used to believe in Santa Claus. And now we don't. Doesn't mean we never got a gift for Christmas. We got the gifts. Santa Claus didn't bring them. But somebody did. So they did happen in the belief, in the story of a dream. But now if we go back to what is going on right now, it's a different story. Without the thinking. Without the past. Without the future. Without distracting ourselves with the idea, okay, but what about this? What about that? Because leaving moment to moment.
The idea that, okay, I'm not going to be thinking about starving children in Africa so they don't exist. No, it doesn't work this way. If I need to be thinking, and I've been working in Africa, I've been seeing starving children day by day when I was working on the ships. If I need to see it and attend to it and do something about it, it will show up in the immediacy. It doesn't have to show up in the thoughts on top of it. The immediacy is really how Bruce would say it. This is the God's will. It has me here now. What can I do now?
Who can I help now? Why would I travel in my mind to some imaginary stories and some imaginary parts in imaginary dream to be sorry for myself and for other people if I can't do anything about it? This is how we used to distract ourselves. That's how we used to leave what is and go to the stories. Go to the stories and disguise it as having a heart, having a compassion. Like, I'm so compassionate because I'm thinking about all my Jewish ancestors all the time. I'm not Jewish, this is just an example. So, you know, this is, now I'm better than you guys because I'm so compassionate, because I'm thinking all the time about what they went through.
Really? Really? And what am I doing about someone sitting next to me? I can't even see them because I'm so preoccupied in my imagination. Somebody may be dying next to me and I can't, I can't see them. I'll miss them. So that's why it's so vital and it's so beautiful to learn to distinguish the overlay of thoughts or imagination from what is happening in this immediacy. What is happening? Seeing, hearing, tasting, touching, smelling. Because this is happening even without the thought. Even without the imaginary thought, with thinking, with memorizing or with fantasizing or planning, the body is going on. Without the thought that there is a body going on.
I can't say there is a body, but it's still something, like Tony used to say, something comes up or something comes down, isn't it? Up or down, I don't know. You always say that something's on or something comes down. I missed the first bit before that. Yeah, something, things come up or things come down. I missed what you said beforehand. Yeah, it's just basically what's happening. If you don't think you have the body, it's just a bundle of sensations happening. Just going through your past, whatever. Yeah, that's right. So what else is happening without the thinking? And what else is not happening? Like, this is an invitation to check, really, is there a chair if I don't think about it?
What is the experience of the chair if I don't have the thought? What is it? Is it just a sensation that we could call it support if we want to use words? But is it really anything else than just a sensation that is happening in this immediacy that I am? Without the thought. Do I begin or end anywhere? Am I encapsulated in my skin? See how much thoughts add to the reality. How much thoughts overlay the reality. And then, from that standpoint, when we understand, thoughts can be utilized. Thoughts can express beautiful poetry. They can be entertaining. They can solve problems of hunger in Africa for those who have the calling to be there physically and have it as the reality of the moment.
Like, this is not my calling. I'm not in Africa. I've been there. And I did play with the kids there. But that's not right now. But that's not right now. So, did any of you have any experience with practicing that little idea, what's wrong with right now if I don't think about it? What did you check? What did you check? Did you check alive situations? Did you check your body? Did you check other images? Well, you know, my favorite story of what's wrong what's wrong with right now, what's wrong with right now unless I think about it, was a car accident that I had a little over a year ago.
And it was totally my fault. And I'm beating the crap out of myself for several hours because I was driving. There was a car to the left of me making a turn. And I was talking to my kids, maybe glanced at an electronic device, doing things I wasn't supposed to be doing. And in my peripheral vision, I could see the car next to me moving. And I'm thinking, oh, the light went green. There's a car stopped in front of me. I put my foot on the gas and plowed into the car in front of me. Totaled the car in front of me. It was an old car that wasn't worth fixing.
So they said it was only worth maybe $1,500, $2,000 bucks, this whole car. But I totaled it because to fix it would have cost more than that. So I did her a favor. How did you apply then? Well, what happened is I did her a favor because she got $2,000 out of the deal in addition to getting to keep her car. But I'm beating myself up over this. And I called up Bob. And I'm thinking, you know, Bob, I'm like, you know, this car accident today. And I thought about your quote. What's wrong with that unless you think about it? Problem is, Bob, I can't fucking stop thinking about it.
And I love that I can say fuck with Sailor Bob because he's Sailor Bob. Right? And he says to me, who's the one thinking about it? And then I just started laughing. And then the whole upset, all of it, that I've been beating myself up for hours. Just. Beautiful. Beautiful. Beautiful. Yeah. So that was my story. And it never came back again? No, I mean, well, there's a story to tell you about this now. I have this story, but it's not, there was no, there's no emotional charge of I shoulda, coulda, woulda. You know, there's not any beating myself up. It's now just like, you know, nothing, I guess.
No one here to have a problem. No one here to have a problem. No self, no problem. Right? So that was. What I thought about was when you were talking about sensations. And I used to work in the health food shop that Bob and Barbara used to own. And one day I was putting some things on a rack and Bob was in the same room as me. And I caught my finger on a, on a little bolt. And there was blood and there was a hole in my finger. And I was going, oh my goodness. He goes, now just watch it. Just watch it. Who's it happening to?
Is it a sensation? Who's it happening to? You know, that was just profound. And he said, now you can watch it. And he said, now you can watch it heal. You know, and that was, that was just an amazing experience in about 1988 or 89. And yeah, just sort of bang, brought me right back straight away. And a lot of other things have happened since 1989. Sensations, opportunities to watch, opportunities to see the identification with the false me or the me that lives in the memory. The me that lives in the past or projects into the future. So many opportunities, so many opportunities, you know, and what's watching it?
What's watching it? It's that presence that breathes me at night with no dialogue, no story. So many opportunities, so many opportunities, so many, and such a wonderful thing to pass on to others, you know, such a, such a, you know, to watch the, the pain and, uh, and the contraction and the resistance to what is dissipate. And that just that relaxation into what is, is, uh, is, uh, not only from here, but with others to see how that just relaxes, you know, into that spontaneous presence. Yeah. And, and, and that's, uh, see guys, this is the beautiful opportunity that this group presents to people. It's not many groups does it.
We can all really share the experience like, you know, what Julia was through or what Jane was through. When, when, when, when we hear it from the heart, it can inspire us. It can, it can really show us practical application of it. It can be very, very practical to see how someone got shifted by just getting the edge of it, just shaking it the way, the way they do. So if you have, you know, if you guys have anything that could be a good hint for everyone else, this is, you know, just get yourself off the way and let, let life express it, let, let life speak it.
Because a lot of things I was saying it before, I heard from people here on Bob's meetings who were very, very unenlightened and they remained unenlightened and they never came back. But the way they worded it and because there was a receptivity, the openness and there was a desire to hear it, it's always only life speaking. There's nobody else. You might think as a person, but this is just a thought. If there is no thought, if there is no thought, I'm a person speaking to other persons, it's only life expressing just like the grass growing. So please contribute. If you have any experience with this idea or similar ideas that Bob is using, like what's wrong with right now, if you apply it to the situation of anxiety, like you've got to go for a job interview tomorrow, but this is tomorrow.
But what usually happens, we get sick in the stomach because it's just so serious, it's so important. Unless anybody takes over. I'll just put it back. Yes, so having that seriousness and that importance because this is my story, this is about me, this is happening to me and it can harm me, it can destroy my life or it can destroy my relationships or my career. So now, in these moments, if the moments of suffering, if the moments of self-obsession, if that very thought is applied, that very idea, which is just like a torn to remove the other torn, is just like the Zen question or Maharishi question, who am I?
What's wrong with right now is another version of this question because this question is actually meant to stop, pause the thought for a moment and see what is there without a thought, which is happening naturally. Especially if there is a genuine curiosity, if there is this vibration of genuine curiosity, wanting to find out what's true, what's reality and what's thinking. Not that thinking is not part of reality, everything is part of the one, of course, but it is kind of a veil in the way we are viewing a dream. We can view it as it is, unaltered, unmodified, uncorrected by thinking, or we can add the layer of interpretation.
This is me, this is mine, this shouldn't be this way, it shouldn't have happened, or I'm anxious what is going to happen. This is the overlay of the reality. Now, what's wrong with right now if I'm not thinking about it? And something is going to come up, or the future is uncertain, or someone offended me, or someone is after me, or my boyfriend doesn't love me, or any of those ideas. Now, if I'm really curious what is really going on without the thought, they all disappear. My boyfriend, my future, my exam, my whatever, they're all gone. They're all gone. And life becomes, again, pure and undisguised, like in unborn mind, seeing, hearing, tasting, touching, smelling.
And when we drop from this heady stuff, from that heavy interpreting, chatting, churning all the time, we drop down to that sense of curiosity. Okay, what now? That sense of engagement with the world, looking out and seeing, okay, what is the content of this moment? What is it seeing, hearing, tasting, touching? Because this is the, this is, this is the life wanting to see itself. This is the life looking, this moment is never ever going to be the same again. This is the one chance for the life to acknowledge itself in this particular shape and form, in this makeup of this moment. And there are components to it.
There are physical components, the reflection in the body. There are emotional components. They are content of seeing, hearing. And this is all very juicy, but not for the mind. Because in the beginning, because of the strong habit of focusing in the mind all the time, thinking became so entertaining and became so loud, that the subtlety of being without the thought seems boring. So, that's why this heart essence, this devotional part, really wanting to find the truth, really, whatever shape it may have. It may be the faith in Jesus, or it may be chasing enlightenment. If there is a heart desire for freedom, freedom from suffering, or joining the flow of life, from liberation, from being isolated and separate, that very feeling, even the feeling of being inadequate, of being unworthy, I read those feelings as devotion.
Because those feelings, I'm not good enough, I have to fix myself, I have to add to myself, I need more makeup, or more money, or I need whatever. That feeling of being vulnerable, that feeling of being not enough, this is also devotion. Because that very feeling calls out to look deeper. That feeling prompts me to look within and see what's real and what's thought. Because am I really unworthy? If I don't think about it? Am I really not smart enough, or not pretty enough, if I'm not thinking about it? Really? I mean, really? How about you? How are you when you don't think about it?
Fantastic. Yeah. Peaceful. Exactly. Like, is there any idea that anything should be different if you don't think about it? That your husband doesn't adore you? But I think about it a lot. Yes. The thoughts happen. They do. I don't think about it's beautiful, you're in heaven, it's a cloud nine. But that doesn't happen very often. Why? Peacefulness doesn't happen. Because the mind is busy. It's churning. Yeah. It's making a story. It's inventing a movie. Yes. It's busy. Busy, busy, busy. I forget how to shut it up sometimes. You don't have to do it. No. You don't have to. See, if you have that hard longing for finding the truth and joining flow of life and being in love with the appearance, being in love with the dream.
If you have that feeling, that very feeling will bring up the recognition. Oh, that's just churning. That's just talking. So it is actually really helpful to notice that devotional feeling, that call for love, that sense of unworthiness, that sense of contraction, the ego. Now, of course, I'm separate. Of course, I'm not. Of course, I could be better. Of course, I could contribute more or give. Yeah, any idea that anything could be different than it is right now. It's an opportunity. Exactly. It's a call. It's an opportunity. It's a beautiful invitation. It's an opportunity. Every single time you get upset. Every single upset is a beautiful opportunity.
I've seen that. I see that more and more and more and more and more. And I'm becoming, getting better at celebrating it. Like, oh, good. I feel like shit. Ha! Yay! Okay. So. I think it's important to remember what it's appearing upon. Mm-hmm. Well, and I was going to say something you were asking earlier, like things to share. And I don't know if it was so much the what's wrong with now question. But for me, the question is, can I find where we're separate? Okay. That's a good one. So, when my father died a year ago, I found out as I was, it was actually, I'd just met Bob for the first time.
I'd flown out here to meet him. So that was that trip. And I came home. And, um, I'd found out that my dad died while I was on the airplane coming home. And I had not played customs yet. And there was no time, really, to like, I mean, it was not the time. I just didn't want to sit and boo-hoo and feel my sadness and all that, like, before going through customs and collecting baggage. And just, just like, that was just not the place I wanted to grieve, right? It was just, I just didn't feel right at the time. And so, of course, I allowed myself the feeling.
But I'm like, I didn't want to go in the story at that time. That just was not helpful. You know, anybody trying to hug me, I'm like, not there. You know, um, but, but I kept, what kept coming up, and it was so helpful, at least in that moment, you know, of course, I'm welcoming the feelings and allowing myself to feel whatever, but at the same time, I'm like, all right, I just, can I find where we're separate? If I don't go into the body, focus on the mind story, am I the body? No, I'm not the body. See, the body, no, he can't be.
So if I'm not the body, he's not the body, can I find the separation? Can I, no. And man, that, that, that, that helped so much. Yeah. At the time when I really had to be able to. Yeah, that was, that was really helpful. And I don't know, you see, this is where you can correct me here, but some people say that the non-duality, it can be used as a way to avoid feeling. It can't be used. Who would be using it? And, you know, I think that with this understanding, that there was a realisation, as it were, that the mind is not a very useful tool except to deal with this present moment.
So, so, so, if I, you know, I did it a year ago, I got to knife, it cut my foot, it must have cut an arch or something, and it was going everywhere, and I was just looking there, and I thought, well, what am I going to do? And, and, and, and, and I wouldn't do it until… And, and, and I wouldn't do it until… And, until…