This transcript was made by speech-recognition software, so names and some words may be misheard. The recording is the original (above).
It's right there. Something's not picking up. I'll have to get a look into it. Yeah, it just takes a while to get going. Cold weather. OK, names? Megan. Bill. Amy. Sally. Gilbert. James. Kastari. Andrew. Rick. Dave. Isabelle. Brad. OK, you all know what it's about. You've all been here before. Any, got any questions about non-duality, or having problems along the way somewhere? Something's not fully grasped? Or something you've seen or recognised something that you'd like to share? Nobody wants to kick it off? Well, the, what's being pointed to is no thing that the mind can grasp. You can't understand it without understanding it. The mind, whatever you're pointing to, the mind's contained in that.
I had a bit of time to think while I was up north. And I was thinking about this, this sense of presence. Yeah. You can only, you can label it. You can talk about it. But that sense of presence is, it's palpable. It's almost, well, it's the natural functioning. Yet it won't always be. It's always been around. Certainly not from this point of view. How do you know? I'm taking a punt. Exactly. It's not the actuality. It's always, as far back as you remember, the actuality's always been the knowing, hasn't it? Yeah. And if you can't remember your birth, you don't remember when your stay course was done.
You think you'll remember the finish of it all? No. No. And for any of it to happen, it's got to be in the concept of time. Have you looked at time? What we call time? Yeah. It's hard to say that time exists. Yeah. Because as soon as... If you realise that, what would it be most necessary to do? If I think about time and the, well, the non-existence of it, or time, which is very hard to define, or the spontaneity, there's really just nothing. It's just really emptiness. It's just all emptiness. You're trying to conceptualise the raspa as something, but wouldn't it... If it's non-conceptual, it's there, it's presence awareness, wouldn't it be wise to totally be with it, recognise it in its fullness, instead of trying to analyse whatever concepts come up, appear and disappear?
Be wide open to it, as I said, the earthly awake with the five senses wide open, because this is... Can you live this moment, any other moment than this moment? Only now, yeah. When you look at it, you can't. A moment ago, what you call a moment ago, you can't relive it. It's gone, finished. That was the actual, what was happening, just the same as this is the actual right now. You can recall what's gone on and all the rest of it. The actuality is always this moment. Now, what's happening in this moment? Always. Well, tell me. What's going on now? Well, natural, spontaneous functioning.
Yeah. Now, what's that include? Seeing? Hearing? Tasting? Touching? Smelling? Yeah. The actual functioning, breathing, heart beating, that's the actual function, that's the actual livingness. Thinking? When thinking comes up, what happens then? How do we think? Well, in the opposites, yeah. In concepts. Concepts, what's a concept? Vibration. Yeah, but basically it's all, it's just a mental construct, isn't it? Yeah. A thought up construct. That's what's basically happening, conceptualizing all the time. So, instead of being with the actual livingness, going into these conceptual images, ideas or concepts, trying to find some solution in those concepts. But what do the ancients tell us it is? Essentially, no thing.
They say it's non-conceptual awareness. What are they pointing out there? Well, thinking without a reference point. Yes. Thinking. You don't have, the awareness is there without the concepts going on. It's the base in which the concepts appear and disappear. Concepts include thoughts, feelings, emotions and all that sort of stuff. If we put labels on, we talked about the labels before, we put labels on. The labels are ideas, images, mental constructs. And what's wrong with right now? If you're not putting those constructs on, what's wrong with this media right now? The seeing, hearing, tasting, touching. So, I mean, can you say anything at all about it?
No. If I don't think about it, yeah. But even if you do think about it? Yeah, it doesn't, same thing. The concepts or labels you put on it, it's just a mental description of what you think is going on. But can any of it take place without that life essence or that beingness? The presence awareness? No. This is a viewing platform, this mind-body configuration here. This is a viewing platform. And I see it from this perspective. Yes. You put something on the floor and you get different viewing platforms to look at it. Even an electron microscope or a bat or a dog, they'll all see something different.
So, it's truly just an appearance. It's an appearance that, it's an appearance that, that, in conjunction with the subject, appears that way. What's appearance mean? Well, it's, I understand it's an illusion. But the translation of it, it seems to be. Seems to be, yeah. It appears to be so or it seems to be so. So, the very idea of the very word seeming doesn't mean it actually is that, does it? It only appears to be. Yeah. It's not that. Yeah. So, the definition of phenomena is that which appears to be. All this phenomenal manifestation appears or seems to be so. As you just said, it all comes back to mire or illusion.
Because how it's appearing is not how it actually is. What basically is it? Yeah, just vibration. Or just vibrations. Or emptiness, emptiness. What's that emptiness? Just a past emptiness or a future emptiness? Well, you often say examine the emptiness of emptiness, so it's empty. Yeah. But isn't the present? Is that emptiness here right now? Yeah, yeah, right here, right here. And isn't there... are you unaware right now? No. No? There must be awareness of the present. Yeah. That's actually all... before you put any labels or concepts on, or even when you're putting the labels or concepts on, can any of it take place outside of that presence awareness?
That's why they translate it, the Buddhist term is non-conceptual ever fresh presence awareness. So that's not a past presence awareness or a future presence awareness. Ever fresh means it's spontaneously happening right now in this moment. This is where the livingness takes place, right here, right now. So that's... So that's the idea of a spiritual search, something greater than this. But if it's one without a second, can there be anything greater than this? No. Can there be anything less than this? Put in another terms, can there be any more, if you like to use these terms, can there be any more, if God is the omnipresence, omnipresence, omniscience, can there be any more of God than there is right now?
One would think not. No. Any left? No. This is it. I was always very content in the discovery that this sense of presence was what was being pointed to. Up until a week ago where I thought, well this sense of presence is also going to go. And you said right at the beginning, how do you know that? But, you know, I know that when this free... I know that when this frame deteriorates that this sense of presence won't be there. Can you tell me a time when you were not? When I was not? Well, 70 years ago, this frame was not... What's that now? Yeah.
Is that the actual? No, that's not the actual. Can you remember 70 years ago when I started for you? When did you first start to read? Two, three... About two, two and a half, yeah. Now can you pinpoint that reason when that began? Is there a static point there? No. That you can postulate and say this is when it happened. No, it's not an actuality. It's only a memory now. Put a seemingly entire mental concept on. Now if you can't say there's a time when you began, can you say there'll be a time when you're in? You can postulate and think about it. Will that be it?
Will that be it? Do you actually know when your last breath will be? No, I won't. No. So, you know... Why doesn't what you're saying satisfy you? Because it seems to me that, you know, I'm seeing, hearing, touching, smelling. The presence awareness... I'm presence awarenessing, or whatever you like. It's all in the present moment. I understand that. I just know that it's not going to be there. I just know that seeing... Not from this platform, anyway. And that's where the focus is going to be. What was and what will be. But is that the actuality? And what are you missing out on when you're doing that?
It's not the actuality because I'm... When's the actuality? Here. That's amazing. Yeah. Why don't you stay with that? Yeah, I can. Be a little refreshed. And I'm 95% content. Then you might see that's the actuality. Then you might see that is where the satisfaction is. What can be added to this? What can be taken away from it? Yeah, nothing. And what is your true nature? Without any of those concepts, trying to work it out, going on. Isn't that satisfying? Oh, yeah. Well, it is very satisfying. But not totally. Mr. Gaddafi says, well, it's like a cake, you know. It's a bloody good cake, but I've had better.
But... Miss... Miss Gaddafi says, what's he say that I read on the beach while watching a beautiful sea eagle just hovering in the wind? He said that even this presence, this sense of awareness will go. The I am will also... Disappears. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. That will also... The I am will also disappear. That will also disappear. Yeah. Yeah. Well, where's that goes? What's left? No seeing, thinking, touching, tasting, sense of presencing. But like you say, that's anticipation. Why don't you drop the I am right now? See what actually is there. What can you do about it? Yeah. Well, Bob points out the fact that all of our problems are problems of relationship, relative to.
So, the activity of seeing, the activity of knowing is relative to. So, the activity of seeing, the activity of knowing is happening. There's no one there doing that. But with our thinking, we associate that seeing or knowing with a me. And that's that 5% problem that you seem to have. It's taking ownership of these functionings. But if I do the investigation and Bob makes it very clear, then I can see that there's no reference point. But who's doing that? Well, obviously the intelligence or... Oh, the intelligence. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
Yeah. All close to control all. And does that need to be investigated? Does the intelligence need to investigate anything? Yeah. Yeah. It's expressing itself as everything. Does it need to be investigated? Isn't it the belief in me that needs to be seen through? Totally? Well, that's always the bottom line. And I can see through that. Who can see through it? Well, it can only be the intelligence. And tell you that it is螤 It's got a point. But it's only going to time. It's got a point. Yeah. Yeah. I saw it. You know how it came back from London? Yeah. I said, Bill fogos. You know you brought that stuff back from London?
Yeah, Bill fogos was notorious for . Well it can only be the intelligence. Yeah, exactly. Be the intelligence. Yeah. That's not satisfying is it? Nothing else to build. Build. I don't want to be a bugger at Genesis. Anyway, that's killed 15 minutes. Next. Thanks Bill, that was good. The nature of thought. Thought is time. Don't bring it to him that's taking the one. It's after the event. Yeah. I'm curious as to what propels us into thought, you know, fundamentally. Yeah. Bill? And away from this presence. Have a look out in nature. What's the base of nature? What's it all containing? What's it all containing? What's the manifestation?
Contained in. Oh, contained in. Well there's kind of like a wholeness and a complete relationship with each other. Everything's related. But isn't it all in space? Yeah. Now can you find a centre to space? Can you find a circumference to it? No. Can you pinpoint it anywhere? Now, all this manifestation? Yeah. All this manifestation is the content of space. Yes. So, and that, there's movement in it, activity in it, that's energy. So it's all vibrating in the pattern of energy. Yes. Yeah. So, you're seeing right now, and what are you seeing through? Oh, a kind of a prism of thought, I think. No, what are you seeing through?
Space, do you mean? What do you, no. What do you see in your, in your actual seeing? You're seeing everything what through? My eyes. So the eye is the instrument? Yes. Through which the seeing is happening? Yeah. Now all this manifestation is, is the content of what's happening in the eyes, isn't it? Yeah. If you're blind you wouldn't see anything. Yeah. Now, you hear in the scriptures they talk about your eye be single or one eye, you know. Now isn't space like that one eye? Yeah. So all this manifestation is appearing in. Yeah. So it's a singular expression and all this manifestation is appearing, the whole content, seeing in one eye.
The Psalms in the scriptures, your eye be single and your body shall be full of light. And that light is the energy, the energy of knowing. So you recognise that all this, this is the instrument through which happening in this particular pattern which is the content of space also. Yeah. It's not different from space. Yeah. That space has no beginning, no end, no constant whatsoever and yet the whole will manifest. Nothing you can postulate or think of that could be outside of space. And all these things in space like this body and other things seem separate, solid and substantial. Without, what content could, what would the content be in if there was no space?
Can't be anything. What would you see if you didn't have the eyes? And how it comes about? Well, it's just a natural spontaneous emanation, you know, that's spontaneous. You're asleep at night. You know seeing and all that is in abeyance, there's no world or anything going on then. Yeah. What happens? You open your eyes and immediately that energy which was seemingly in abeyance now starts to, it was always going on when you were in deep sleep. It wasn't noticed. But when the whole manifestation appears immediately. Yeah. It's a far, far infinitely more satisfying experience for me to be in this space. I've just become introduced to you recently, so I am curious as to what propels me away from this space.
Why on earth would I want to leave this space? Well, it's purely because we started to reason when we were little children. Before you started to reason, before that capacity of reasoning developed in about six months, and what's a little child before that time? It's functioning spontaneously and naturally. Not discriminating anything, it's just a natural functioning of attraction and repulsion going on, the vibration. We've got this capacity of reasoning which is a very useful capacity, and we learn words from that. As soon as we learn words, we put the labels or the meaning into it. And so we learn words. Relate those words to this pattern.
This is me, this is I. When a little child's got no idea of I or me at all, he just functions naturally and spontaneously. As soon as we get that idea, we lose sight of the spontaneous functioning and start to relate to this image we've got about ourselves. And that relationship is the problem. That is dualism. We've moved away from the non-dual. Natural spontaneous functioning to a dualistic pattern. Now, it's always going to manifest the pattern dualistically. Like in nature. Look at nature. Nature hasn't built a reference point or an ego to relate to it. We have. But never look and investigate this ego or self-centre.
See if it's really true. Is there such a thing as a separate entity there? Is there an individual, a person? Or a conceptual image, an ego? Is it true? Is it real? When you investigate, you see, it's just made up of lots of concepts. Because you give it away each night when you go to sleep. You drop that idea of an ego concept. You see that today lots of times. It's violent and things like that. You give that belief in empty away. Why do we do it? I mean, um, why do we do it? Is this just human life? You know, how we evolve and we journey back to the moment?
Wouldn't you rather be, say, wouldn't you rather be having some, doing some of these things in life than sitting there in a vacuum or a void or something? Yeah, yeah. Well, that's the way it functions. It functions intelligently and spontaneously. We have the capacity of human beings. We can create and everything. Other animals and birds and insects have other capacities and they can do that with things that we can't. You know, even birds, insects, trees, flowers and everything else. It's all suffused with that amazing, natural, innate intelligence. It's patently shaped and informed. But none of it ever contaminates or corrupts the very essence itself. Again, pointing out that it can only be my own illusion.
Without it to lose sight of being an entity, it can only be recognized in its fullness. Because we've been to believe in this entity, we've put the limitations and boundaries in it. Because the mind, being a vibration of energy, it can say, this is good, this is wonderful, and tell us, oh, I'm not good enough or I'm fearful. That's the way it functions. It's vibrates. And the vibration we put on it are words. As Shakespeare told you, there's nothing either good or bad, but thinking makes it so. And look at your mind, you'll see it's always vibrating in opposite. Or the future, pleasant or painful, happy, sad, loving, hating.
All these thought constructs can come up and seemingly create and manufacture all sorts of things. It's still limited and it's functioning. And the limitations or boundaries you've put upon it are the word. We haven't got that word good or bad. What is it? We haven't got that word pleasant or painful, anxious or fearful. It's always silence and sound. and it still is like in nature. Nature is vibrating or manifesting dualistically. Have a look at it. Day, night, past, future, solstice. But it hasn't got a reference point. So nature doesn't have the psychological confidence we do. And we don't have to have them. And it's a matter of investigation?
Yes, along the lines I pointed out. Whatever I tell you can't happen until you look at it yourself. What anybody else will tell you is that's what we've done. We've believed in what others have told us. We've seen the limitations we've got upon ourselves, which is quite simple when you're not into it. And the recognition of it itself, that leaves you where you were in the natural world. If you ask yourself this, what's wrong with right now if I don't think about it? To do that you pause and thought, what can you say in this moment now without a thought? Nothing at all. But you haven't stopped seeing.
You haven't stopped hearing. You haven't stopped hearing these words. You haven't stopped tasting, touching something. Heart hasn't stopped beating. See, but nature is still functioning naturally and effortlessly. And thought has seen me stop for a moment. So what would intelligence tell you? All these things are happening and I'm thinking, wouldn't intelligence tell you I am prior to the thought? What I am is not down in this thought, I think, which I've believed for so long. But I'm prior to the thought. I'm still going on in thought. You get the taste of that and then you go. And then thought becomes a useful instrument. Where it's...
Doesn't flood. Yeah. Where it's self-destructive, where it's believing in it, when it's dividing it or separating it. And, like in that psychological, in that division, that's where all the psychological problems come from. Our fear, our anxiety, and our happiness. Whatever it is. All these different defects come up because we've separated from the totality. But they're all seen like a cloud on the sun. They're all obscuring that sense of presence that's there right now. So when you start to recognise and see through some of these things, what is behind it, underneath it, is all those qualities. Because it functions as the vegetables. The natural love, the compassion, the warmth, the affection.
All these, they're there. And you take the layers of... What's the name of them? They shine forth on themselves. You don't have to try and make them right or quantify them or anything like that. They're naturally there. It comes into what I call effortless living. But in that effortless living, it doesn't mean to say, you won't be doing anything. That mind will still be functioning. It'll still be functioning. It'll function even more spontaneous, more natural, more effortless. And you won't be constantly relating it to the me. It's putting the limitations and boundaries on you. Very boring. Thank you. It's a pretty majestic game, all this.
Just listening, what would you be doing? As the suffering drops away, as the self-destructive reference points go, you realise you wouldn't have had all that suffering and frustration. You wouldn't have had it any other way. You wouldn't want this just to be some easy thing. Oh yeah, thanks, Bob. Yep, got it. It's a pretty, it's a majestic game. Again, you look at that and see your nature. Nature is constantly functioning in the inter-idle opposites. There couldn't be a manifestation. There couldn't be day without night. There couldn't be silence without sound. There couldn't be one thing without the other. Because what would it be? It couldn't appear.
You see, we say enjoy. Look at that word. What's it mean? Be in joy. Enjoy. When you say enjoy something, you don't really look at it. You just say the word, but really look into it. Enjoy. And where is that joy? That joy is in your natural state. It's already spontaneously there. Like everything else, it's obscured by its opposite. And there can be this notion that you need to get something. You know that the seeker needs to get something, but it's always there. Well, that's what we've done all along. We think we're going to become. Instead of realising it's something else, it's becoming this time.
Being is the actuality. And there is nobody in this room who is not being right now. And Bill says this is not good enough. We want to leave some conversation going, look. It appears that, you know, you can call it a teaching. It's not really a teaching, but it appears that the biggest problem in this teaching has is that it's so simple. It's actually so simple. And your first book is full of pointers. There's hundreds and hundreds of pointers and they're all very sharp and very simple. Simple language, you know, like you point out the fact that even on a very overcast dark day, you wouldn't see those clouds if it wasn't for the sun.
And that's absolutely profound. You know, it doesn't matter how bad the suffering appears to be. There's an awareness of the suffering, which is there all the time, whether there's joy or suffering or whatever, it's there and it doesn't change. It's like the seeing, you know, it doesn't change. The content of the seeing changes. But it's just buying into a reference point or a fixating point, me, that introduces all of this. Mm. Array of stories and things and that's the prison, what you call the cage of limitations. And I had an insight the other day, you were talking about the cage of limitations. And in the same meeting you were saying that, you know, the thought is a vibration and it lands as a word.
I can't remember exactly how you put it. And it will vibrate in its opposite. So you have these two opposites. Yeah. And if you take the labels off, then it just dissipates. So, and the insight was that these reference points are actually what this cage has made of. Yeah. Of words, a cage of words, a cage of limitations. And if you drop referencing to this image of me, then everything does naturally resolve itself. Yeah. Well, no, it hasn't got any words, has it? Yeah. Yeah. But that's another simple thing. I mean, that's very, that's very, that's very, that's very important. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I guess it's meant that if we follow these rules, because if we okay, subconsciously exist, and our real conscious is purely the heart, we are only the oluyor-ril-bic. Now, it's also about the nature of the ego. If we adapt to that sense of being natural and untouchable, then we acquire quantum beings that we don't think we are. Was that elaborate? I don't think I heard anything. Thank God it is. Yeah. How bomber is that. Never mind, maybe the beefy is gone back once again. Not realising we are one with nature, you know, we believe we're separate because we're watching nature and how things are going, and exclude ourselves out of that.
We can't, because you are no different from nature, you are nature. And looking at the vestibule, you see there is absolutely no separation whatsoever in this manifestation. No, it seems all these diverse patterns, shapes and forms. You can break them all down, like any of these, any of you, me or anything else that's going on here, could we get out of space? Or out of this immediacy? No, you can't. So you're not, you can't get away from it, you can't be separate from it. If this earth were to blow up right now, and a million atoms born and bloomed, and all the subatomic patterns are pure atoms, could any of it be outside of space?
What would it be in? So it would still be in space, but you couldn't be in the shape or form of a pattern of this as a globe now. It's the same as the patterns and shapes and forms that are out there now. They're all, I don't know, physicists and all the rest of the scientists, they're all stardust. Actually, gas is formed in that, in this manner, in what he called it, cosmos, whatever it is, and gas is solidified and forms matter, galaxies, and so on. And that's the way it is. And that's the way it is. And that's the way it is. And that's the way it is.
And that's the way it is. And that's the way it is. And that's the way it is. And that's the way it is. And that's the way it is. And those gases form from vibrating pattern of energy. If you stir water enough you'll get froth on it after a while and things like that, and things will form. And who cares? Just a matter of recognizing that what we've done, we've put these limitations and boundaries on ourselves, when we could be living in that total freedom. Freedom from the belief that we are separate entity. And all these world problems for the human form are for self-gratification.
We've got this ego, and this ego feels attacked or assaulted or gonna lose its hold at capacity. So we do things, why would you want to rob anybody if you want to self-gratify? Why would you want to rape anybody? Why would you want what that person has if you weren't satisfied in completing yourself? When you are completing yourself, you're beyond the need for further help, you're just happy with everything as it is. And that not only happens there, but that will express through this pattern in, what do they call it? Nah, who cares? In all its diversity. Yeah, you know, in a natural compassion. Where before, you know, you find yourself.
There's a natural compassion in there, it's naturally there. But because... We think, got more energy into this, believed in self-centred, we're frightened, fearful of losing it, of making it less. Don't let that compassion shine forth. I'm forgetting words, and won't be long before I'm out of it. You've been saying that for the last five years, man. Yeah, sorry to say, another ten years or what can I say? This is what we tell you. It was always right now, Bill. Where would you go? Yeah, I don't know, but this pattern, but you can see this pattern's breaking down, it's having its day. So what, there'll be no big loss.
And I see that happens out there all the time. Patterns fall, patterns play around for a while, then their usefulness is over, they fall apart. But nothing is ever lost. And there's been saints, sages and saviours down through the ages. They've all come and they've all gone. None of them have ever gone beyond no thing. No next life, there's no past karma. There's none of all this stuff. Man. Yeah, that's to say, heaven and hell. As soon as man invented God, as soon as he invented God, what is this God he invented? Because the mind functions as a pair of opposites. It had to be a devil.
It had to be its opposite. And this God had to live in a heaven. As soon as there was a heaven to live in, there had to be a hell. All conceptual images, you see. But then, there have been things. There have been people who recognise and realise it's down through the ages, continue to point it out, and it's picked up and passed on. And that's why you people are here. You've got the capacity or chance to grasp it and pass it on to others. Thought is time. And you'll never get an answer with the mind. So why keep looking from it? And why would you want an answer if you know you are there?
So Bob, I'm just going to throw this in. I don't deserve to because it's not something I really, really understand. But when we were talking about nature before, you know, that we are part of nature and all that, the thing is, for so long I didn't actually put the other side of it. That's talking duality. Nature is awareness too. Nature is awareness. And you're not a part of it. No, I'm not a part of it. You are nature. You are. I am that. And you recognise that the maharavaka just came into it. You realised, I am that. I'm not a part of it. Where the me is, love can never be.
Well, thank you for that. Well, the me is a fixated point, isn't it? If I've got a sign on my head, please lecture me. It's sound of compassion. Thanks for the compassion, Chad. The me is only a thought anyway. You can love it. If you want. Yeah. Wow. It's alright. The other day, Bob, you used the word sufficiency, and I really like that because seemingly from the entity, and especially, you know, in addiction, I hear the concept not enough all the time. You know, of myself, I'm not enough. And it was great to hear you use the word sufficiency. The belief in an entity, you know, there will always be lack, and the desire to acquire a mass or alter, modify.
Well, that's what the sagittarius is. The only way it can help anybody is to take the beyond the need for further help. If you're beyond the need for further help, that is sufficiency. Nothing you need, nothing you want. And he simply did that by pointing out what I'm trying to point out to you. There's nothing other than that. And because of that, I have a need for help, and that don't do this. Things cropped up for a while afterwards. But it was never the same because you've got the taste of it. You've got the taste of your true nature. You know, and you realise, and you look at it, that taste has always never been there.
You've always been a cognising of it somewhere online. But we've made it. We've made it. We may forget about that and obscure it again with the concepts. We know better, that's what I'm saying. Yeah. I'll get it next time. The funny thing is, Bill was saying earlier on that it's not quite satisfying. When you actually, when you start to, when you try and understand what awareness is, when you try and understand what it is that we're pointing out, it actually does seem unsatisfying because you're moving into a story. You start to postulate it about something about what, you know, this thing could be and how it is and how it should be and all sorts of machinations start to come up about what it is that we're trying to say.
But the truth is it's as simple as Bob saying, are you unaware right now? The fact is awareness is always present. Right now, right here, right now, without having to move an inch in any direction in the mind, the awareness is clear and obvious. Because the very fact that there's all these thoughts coming up or there's feelings or sensations or emotions, there has to be an awareness there that's aware of it. Without the awareness, there'd be no knowing of all the stuff that's appearing in the immediacy. So that's like Gilbert was saying earlier on, it's so simple that we overlook that and we try and figure out what it is by going into a story.
And the story is always going to be about the future or the past. And that can be. And when you start to move into a story, then that can feel very unsatisfying because all of a sudden now we're back in time and we're back in concepts and ideas. Analyzing. Analyzing it, trying to figure it out. And it becomes unsatisfying. It becomes, you know, what's... And then suddenly we start having ideas about, okay, well, I'll get it. It's not going to work. It's not going to work. It's not going to work. It's not going to work. It's not going to work. It's not going to work.
It's not going to work. It's not going to work. And then we start to think about some future time because it seems elusive. And then there's a carrot on a stick and, okay, if I do this, if I do that, I'll eventually figure it out. And it just goes on forever. The whole thing just goes on and on and on. Yeah. Carrot like a hamster on a wheel. Doesn't stop. But the simple truth is, do you believe that you are or do you know that you are? The fact is you know that you are. And you know that you are because awareness is clear and obvious.
Awareness is clear. Awareness is here right now and that knowing is here right now. There's no belief required. It's just simply this simple knowing. It's awareness. Sounds good, mate. Not my awareness. Not convinced, mate. That doesn't sound like universality to me, you know. Sounds like it's still from like a reference point. What are you relating it to? Well, the reference point. Yeah. My awareness. How could you say it doesn't sound good? I'm not. I'm not. I'm not. I'm not. I'm not. I'm not. I'm not. I'm not. I'm not. I'm not. I'm not. I'm not. It's just there. I'm not. It doesn't sound good. I'm not.
And that's your relating it to. Yeah. What's your reference point that you're relating to? You're still trying to understand it from a reference point. Hmm? Hmm. Yeah, yeah. I can clearly see that. I mean, Bob, when you said to me before when Graham just said it, are you unaware right now, I'd have to say, you know, I'd have to say no. But I know that that's not, I don't do anything. So it's the intelligence saying it. Really? Yeah, so there's a knowing or a recognising. There's a knowing, yeah, yeah. That awareness, you're not unaware, isn't it? Yeah, so that's the intelligence, the knowing itself. Yeah, that's recognising as a knowing.
But what can that intelligence do except pattern through this framework here? What can it do apart from just pattern through this framework? Just like seeing, hearing, touching, smelling. And my question is, when this framework is not here, this appearing framework is not here, how can there be any experience or sense of anything? It'll be like going to sleep. Like you say, when you go to sleep, you just let go of all this. There's still an awareness there. There's still an awareness. The dog barks and I'll wake up. That's sleep. Yeah, yeah. But when I'm in deep sleep, so when this frame goes, you're saying if the dog barks, I'll say, oh, there's a dog.
But you're postulating a time. When you were not. Now, have a look at that framework you're talking about. Is that the same framework you had 20 years ago? No. Same framework you had when you first came out of the womb as a little child, little baby? No, no. Well, those patterns have disappeared. You are still there, aren't you? You know, I'll ask you, what did you do when you were a little child? You say, so and so. I say, how do you know? You tell me this. I say, you know. Your body's changed. And the concepts about yourself, your self has changed. But there's a knowing there that tells you.
We're going to take you back to when you were a little child and tell you certain things that have happened, what's your memory. So what's going on? Now, that's quite satisfying. Miss, I think, says, Miss Gaddafa says that this is food. Conscious. Conscious. The body is food for the consciousness. The body is food for the consciousness, yeah. So there's no food for the consciousness when this disintegrates. Pardon? No food for the consciousness. There's nothing for it to eat. Therefore, it'll just disappear. Where did that body come out of? Was it separate from the consciousness at any time? Well, no. And when it disappears, where's it going to go?
Won't be separate from the consciousness either. Consciousness is there in its fullness. Nothing's been taken away from it. Nothing's been added to it. It's just a pattern, shape and form it's got. And continues to express spontaneously. Other patterns, shapes and forms. Right. But in the ocean, you know. But wave comes on the ocean. Another wave. Is one wave any better or any worse than the next wave? Why? Because they're both water. They're both water. Is it the same water that comes into the next wave and another wave? No. No. They're always pattern, shape and form. In a different manner, a different expression. But it's always and still only and ever the one water, isn't it?
So when your frame disintegrates, when that over there disintegrates, am I allowed to do this? Is this like, or is this going ahead in time? Or what are you going to say? You're just anticipating. You often say you're not going to be here for long. What's your take on what's going to be happening? Well, I can't go any further than out of, I can't go out of space. No. Will there be... So I will be that space-like awareness which I am right now. Right. I like that very much. You say that with great conviction. And I know that you know that. And I want to know that too.
But you often talk about... Yeah, me too. Put your hand up if you want to do this. Now, you often talk about going to investigate the sea to see if it's blue. And we go down with our glasses and we're like, shit, no, it's clear. We walk around. We're like, still blue. Yeah. Same as if you investigate, is this a reference point? I investigate and I can see that there is no reference point. There's absolutely no stationary or whatever. There's nothing there. However, there is now, I'm waving my arms around and making a noise here, there is a seeming reference point. Just like looking at the sea, is it blue?
Yeah. No, clear. Look at the reference point. No, it's not there. It's like a reference point. What's the difference between when you know the water and the sea is not blue, you investigate and you don't stop the seeing of it as blue? Well, there's that satisfaction. There's that... You know the truth about it. Yeah, you know the truth about it. And you're free of the belief that any blueness there is dead. You can admire the way it appears. Beautiful blue sky, sea today. You know the truth about it. That means you're not bound into it anymore. So you're not bound into trying to fix the blueness or change it or change the sea.
Or alter it, modify it or correct it. You leave it as it is because you can get by the livingness and go by the sea being blue all the time or the sky being blue. The sky is space. Where's the blueness in this room? If you go up a plane 30,000 feet, does that blueness from outside come in through the portholes in the plane and fill the cabin of the plane with blueness? It doesn't stop the sky from appearing to be blue. That's like... If you go out there and it looks like a canopy over the space, doesn't it? And that seemingly canically... You can't see stars in the daytime because the stars are still there, you know what I mean?
You see, you recognise these things, know the truth about it. That's the script you're saying is understand that, know the truth and the truth will set you free. And if you're in that truth, you're free of the belief. It doesn't mean to say it's going to stop. It's not going to stop seeing. It'll still appear to be a me and think to be a me. But you know, through investigation, it hasn't got any power or any independent nature of itself. There is no entity that can stand up and say, this is what I am. Try and pinpoint an entity. I'm Bob. Is that an entity?
Try and pinpoint. Where does it start? If I'm not thinking that, you know, I can't pinpoint an entity that might seemingly feel like there is. When I look for the feeling and I realise the feeling couldn't be there without an entity. Thought, feeling and emotion are one and the same thing. So, you know, there's not going to be, the world is going to be careless about it, you know. It's not going to be care, and that doesn't mean to say you won't be caring, but the cares and woes and all the rest of it goes on about it. You know that it's just, everything's going along all right just by itself, as Bankey says.
Everything is perfectly resolved in the unborn mind before it's gone. That's the thing. The unborn mind, the fallen mind, the thought is mine, nature is resolving. And it's resolving itself right now. You look out and you can see all sorts of chaotic things going over in the Middle East and all around the places, and even in the Earth itself, there's volcanoes going up, tsunamis somewhere or other, all these sorts of things going on. But nature is continually resolving itself. Yeah, the spontaneity is obvious. It's just so obvious. We'll live in that spontaneity. Try and work it out in the mind. And when they are trying to work it out, spontaneously insights, what we call insights, will come up.
There'll be little recognitions or revelations about, ah, that's what that means. You see things in a totally different light to what you've seen them and understood them before. And recognise the truth of them all. You know, you look at those pictures, what do they call them, 3D pictures. You look at them and you'll, well, they'll jump all the dots. When you look at them for a little while, you'll see a figure or something inside them. You know, it reveals itself to you. Same with this. The thing is, if I was to suddenly be here with no, you know, manifested spontaneously, didn't exist, suddenly I'm here, I wouldn't have any labels for anything.
I wouldn't have words or beliefs or any conditioning or anything. Everything would be exactly as it is and it wouldn't be a problem. That's the nature of spontaneity. It's ever fresh. Every moment it's ever fresh and new. So, even to think along these lines helps to maybe recognise something. Mate, that's perfectly clear. That's perfectly clear. Yeah, but you've got to... And, yeah, I've got to hear, but... And that's just the intelligence also. And what Graham said, perfectly clear. But when this, you know, I bloody well know that when this frame goes, mate, I ain't going to be seeing it. But you can say that, but that's only mood making.
You know, you're mood making. It's like projecting. You can do the analysis, like look at the sea. It's blue. And you go and have a bloody look and it's clear. You look at the eye, bloody well not there. I've done it a thousand times. And here is Bill again getting annoyed and wagging his arms around and speaking. You know? When this thing goes, how can annoyance even arise? Who cares? It's not going anywhere. Well, I know. It's not going anywhere. I know. It's not going anywhere. You know, I'm not going anywhere. Bob often says if the joint blew into a smithereens, you know, like stuff would...
The mass and the energy would just all be the same. I know no one's going anywhere. Nothing's lost. I know everyone who's sitting here can feel the bum in your seat. And you're wondering what Bill's bloody rabbiting on about. And you're bloody all got these thoughts bloody racing around and you're trying to convince me. You know, this pattern with this configuration is exactly the same as all these other patterns. But we've been subject to different influences and we all have different interpretations. And you've been studying for 20 years. I've been looking at it for five years. Bob's living it. Everything's bloody different. You know, it's like...
But I can clearly say that everything is just spontaneous. It's not going anywhere. It's just spontaneous. And I'm saying, so bloody what? How can I look at that spontaneity? How can I look at that spontaneity without this framework? Well, look, 200 people died... If I got blown up. 200 people died probably 200 last night in Melbourne. And their death notices will be in the paper. Do you give a shit about any of those people? Can't say the relevance, but I don't even know them. Exactly. I don't know anybody I don't give a shit about. Well, hey, that's a bit rough, mate. I mean, I don't know.
I've got to read the death notices and stuff. I don't know them. I don't know. I won't be reading them, but what I'm saying is if I knew someone there, then I would probably have some feeling and say, Oh, I used to know that man. You're right, Bill. When life drops out of our body, that body disintegrates. There's nothing... It's interagating right now. Cells are being replaced. Disintegration starts. Breaks it down. Breaks down into dust or it's burnt ashes or whatever. The residual will go into the earth. And then that residual will be minerals or something like that. There'll be a seed in the earth.
We'll get sustenance out of that mineral. So another pattern will form. Now, as you say, that pattern will disappear. But what was it? What were you worrying about before you were born? No. Why? There wasn't that particular pattern, frame or note. It wasn't there. But that life essence was there because you wouldn't have been able to form otherwise, would you? The life essence was in the food eaten by your father and the food eaten by your father formed the sperm and the ovum. Different patterns. And those two coming together took the blueprint that was due out of them. And when they took the intelligence and energy in the sperm and the ovum, it knew to penetrate the ovum.
And then those two come together. And doubled that cell and redoubled it and formed that pattern. And even then, there wasn't a bill there knowing anything about it. No. So the same life essence will be there. But in the next, there was no reincarnation. So there'll be no, there'll never be another bill that'll form. There'll be different pattern shapes and forms. But there'll be no bill. And it's going, it's still the same expression of that intelligence in all these diverse, because the Buddha said a couple of thousand years ago, whenever he says, every sentient being has been your father and your mother. Means to say that one essence has gone around the express religion.
And you are a sentient being. So you realize you must have been, already been the father and the mother of every other one. There's been no separation whatsoever. In this particular pattern, you're Bill. And you want to hang onto that time. Hey Bob, Bob, Bob, before Bill walked in, I heard him say from here, before he, there's no beginning and no end. Which is exactly the picture I'm picking up from, you know, what you're saying there. I'm just having a conversation. I know, I know. It's a lazy group, you know, we need to be. I remember Bob sometimes he'd say, like, if the you is in your hand or your arm, then when it gets chopped off, you go.
And I don't know, just what Bill's saying, like, the you-ness or what we, isn't, it can't be in this body, it just is. Because otherwise, part of it would suddenly go missing when we lost an arm or. So it's the same when we die, like, that essence that is the beingness, that is, we kind of label as I, can't go. Because it's not in the body. So the body disintegrates. Emile, you were saying. Sorry. So if the body disintegrates. Well, the beingness is never, I mean, I totally understand what you're saying. And I have that same fear as well. But I'm just thinking about that, that the body disintegrates, the meanness, what we label as beingness, the I, like, because it would disappear if we lost an arm, or part of it would.
It is in this body somehow. Oh, you're saying you're down to the seven-eighths? Yeah. Suddenly we go, I'm not quite completely, you know, that beingness would partly be diminished if part of the body got chopped off. And even, I don't know, someone was telling me a story about, they were there recently when their uncle suddenly died. So they were talking to him one minute, and he literally gasped and died. And she was like, this can't be happening. He is still here. He's got to be. And was trying to, you know, rub. And she was like, the body was still moving, literally moving, the blood, everything.
But he had gone. Like, if he was in the body, and the blood was still there, and everything was going, like, I don't know, it just, I don't know, those are all just, I totally understand that fear. I have it as well, like. I don't know if I called it fear. It's an annoyance. But is it fear? Is it fear of, yeah, I'm going to disappear when I die? I mean, for me, that's what it, somehow it feels when I feel it. I won't know when I take my last breath. I might get taken out by a bus. I won't know. You won't know when you die.
No, that's what we said. We said, what's the point of worrying about it now? It's not fear. You're just trying to figure it out. You're trying to understand and package it somehow. Yeah, yeah. I can. Well. But the being comes out of non-being. The non-being is not concerned about the being. Why should the being be so concerned about the non-being? How can they be non-being? Why would one spend your whole life with fear of not being? Why not enjoy the being while it's here? Let the non-being take care of itself. And when the, what? Sounds like two you're talking about. Yeah, well, it appears to be two.
Yeah, yeah. It's not two. Yeah, yeah, beyond that. Non-duality we're talking about here, Bill. And you know, Bill, you were saying, if the body is not there and a dog barks, am I going to get up and say, oh, there's a dog barking? The thing is, in order for those words, the dog's barking, to come out, there has to be a vehicle of expression there for the awareness to express through. It doesn't mean the awareness isn't there. It just means that vehicle of expression is not there anymore. Good. Mate, I like that. Yeah. I like that. And that's what I'm saying. Yeah. And when your so-called death comes, you're being a corpse, aren't you?
You won't be at the point of the blue ocean, though, will you? Mate, I'll be chasing you and I will be chasing you. Oh, we all will be. Good. Well, you can say with certainty there'll be no psychological suffering, Bill. That's right, yeah. Right, yeah. Then you'll have that peace that passes understanding. You don't have to wait till you die, though. You can die anyhow, to the mind. No such thing as peace of mind. Mind can never be at peace because it's constantly vibrating. So the peace is when the mind is not. You can pause the thought right now. Don't say it's good or bad.
That's where the peace is. That's why they call it the peace that passes all understanding. Can't be grasped with a concept. The seeker has to disappear by the belt. It never existed. Never existed. What is the seeker except an image, innit? But it can't be in this body, can it? Because the body's actually still there when... Like the body doesn't disappear when we die. So it's not in the body. No. It's that life essence that's using that body. That's the instrument through which it expresses. Are you a body in the mind or a mind in the body? Like the eyes are the instruments through which the sight happens.
Couldn't see without eyes. All these patterns are shapes and forms through which it expresses through. You couldn't get that television on if it didn't have the screen there. That's the instrument through which it expresses. But the power behind it all is the maintenance that expresses through those patterns. Well, I've often talked about, or you define or you talk about truth as being that which does not change. You say that? What? Truth is, or reality is that which does not change. Yeah. Yeah. You want to talk about that? Chuck me a few crumbs, mate. Been throwing you crumbs all morning. I've been eating them. Boy, are you.
But you've been hungry. It hasn't satisfied you. Didn't have breakfast this morning. No, I didn't have breakfast. So that's easy to recognize, that aspect, that which does not change. Yes. You know, that knowing. Well, have you recognized that? What is it that doesn't change with you? Yeah, that knowing. The knowing. Yeah. Can you, has it got any shape? No. Has it got any form? No. Can you say it has a beginning? Can you pinpoint a time when knowing began? Well, no. So can you say it's had any ending? Well, I can say now that it'll probably end when I cut, or it probably started when.
You've got a conceptual. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Can you actually say it will end? Yeah, yeah, yeah. You're still trying to understand it with the mind. Like, it beings just, like letting go of the secret. That person that's trying to understand something that's happening now, you're just creating time by seeking. Just let go. Let go of Bill, who's trying to figure this thing out. It's only obstructing what's already there. Yeah, that sounds reasonable. Sounds reasonable. But, you know. But. But, why. But. There's always a but. There will forever be the but. Why should I? Why should I? Because this is, reality is not under the floor or on the roof or behind the walls.
This is it. Including the frustration and the, you know. It can only, this can only be reality. What's to let go? Maybe appearance is. If you want to separate the appearance, then you're creating two things. It's all got to be, it's just one. We talk about, advice is one thing. Yeah, well let's. Let's just let go. Let that go. We talk about, advice is one thing. We talk about, advice is two. Not two. It's all one. Let that go too. Let that concept go. Let that concept, yeah. Yeah, I can, I can do that. But, I mean the intelligence is responsible for everything. Nothing, nothing is excluded, including the frustration, the questioning, the notion of an I, the notion of no I, you know, whatever you want to mention.
You know, an eagle ripping a lamb apart, or a lance, or an earthquake, or a tsunami, or Does all that you just postulated, does that make it any better or any worse? Does the story make it better or worse? Well even the story is the intelligence bug. You can't exclude anything. I mean that to me is reasonably satisfying. My line of inquiry is also the intelligence bug. You can't exclude it but you are excluding everything else while you're in the story. Sorry, say that again? I say you can't exclude it but you're right, but you are excluding everything else while you're in the story. For the being in the story it's all that, you're postulating what's this, that and the other.
That becomes a story too. I mean everything that's said here, everything, I mean talking, listening, you know, interchange, annoyance arising, joy arising or whatever, that can only be the intelligence. Yeah but are you seeing it as that? Yeah, yeah. What are you trying to describe it as? Well what? What else can it be except the intelligence? Well just before we stop, leave it as it is. Leave it as we miss out on it. As is means unaltered, unmodified, uncorrected. Just as it is, right now. No preference, no partiality, no comparison. It means there's nothing being done about it at all. Left as it is and in as it is, like in nature, constantly changing.
Yeah. So it doesn't even matter that I'm behaving badly. It's just, it's all reality. Well who's behaving badly? I'm not, Gilbert is. Gilbert's the problem. Yeah. It's a, it's a, habits can be broken. Everyone agrees with that. No I don't. Because you may not be able to break a habit and you can, you can, but that is still reality. Yeah but generally habits can be broken. Can you agree with that? Say somebody's got a bad posture. They want to improve their posture. Then they have to take a good posture. But by taking a good posture, it will expose all the tendencies of having a bad posture will come up.
The body will want to go back into a bad posture. Yeah. So all of that stuff is going to come up and it's going to be, have to be seen and discarded. Otherwise the body will be broken. Otherwise the body will go back into a bad posture. So to, to improve the posture you have to have a good posture. But the problem is it brings up all the shit about having a bad posture. So by trying to get to this, understand this with the mind, it's going to bring up everything that's going to, to tempt you away from the recognition. And the central point is me.
Whoever that me is, it's an illusion. And what's that quote from Einstein? Yeah. What is it about? A human being sees himself, his thoughts and his feelings, as something separated from the rest. A kind of optical delusion of his consciousness. An optical delusion of his consciousness. And that's what we're dealing with. And if you want to have a bad posture, go ahead. But if you want to have a good posture, you have to do something about it. You have to really cut to the core of this belief in me. Otherwise it's just years of bullshit, you know. What's the point? And the frustration, I mean I share, I understand your frustration with it.
But it's unnecessary. You need to cut through this crap. And also... Mate, I'm not really concerned that I'm... No, no, you're not. No, I'm not. And I will drop the line that I'm just entertaining you. However, it just all has to, I can, you know, this, for me the aspect of spontaneity sort of covers everything. But it seems to me like a lot of things are said where, you know, you have to change your posture, for example. You don't bloody have to change your posture. No, you don't. Because changing it or not changing it, or a notion of I, or no notion of I, or whatever, doesn't matter what's happening.
Because it can only be, this is it, right here, right now. Even though I'm... Be careful. Be careful. Enjoy it. Yeah, well, I'm enjoying it. I'm bitching and moaning all the time. Well, it may appear I'm bitching and moaning, but I'm enjoying myself. It's just... I don't feel with that, I don't feel with that. Yeah, I don't feel on you. Just about. One reporter. Just, you know, bitching and moaning. Bill, just, sometimes when you, like when you say, you know, it's all that, you know, the me is the intelligence and the story is also the intelligence, that could also be being, that could also be like an excuse to keep the belief in the me intact.
Yeah. By constantly saying, oh, it's all the intelligence, it's all this, it's all that. By sort of holding on to that idea, it's kind of giving the, an excuse to keep the me alive, to keep that belief in a self-centred life, by having this idea that, okay, the self-centred is also the intelligence. So therefore I'll, you know, I'll continue to believe in it. I mean, you can... Well, I can... You can continue to believe in it if you want, but... But even then, mate... Yeah, see... Yeah, you better... Well, what are you going to say about it? I mean, even that, are you going to exclude that?
Are we going to have, like, some concepts that are not included and then all the rest of this is one? We've got these over here. We'll have these over here that cannot be included. Isn't that funny? I was just going to say, I really like that because I've often heard people here saying, oh, it's all concepts, it's all concepts, you know, and you think, hang on, there's a bit of a... It's bullshit. It's like a little backdoor for that belief in the me to sort of stay intact. Oh, yeah, yeah, it's all the intelligence. I'll continue to hang on to this self-centered. It's rationalizing and justifying.
Hm? Rationalizing and justifying. Oh, yeah, I mean, you know, what can I say? What can you say? What can I say? What can anyone say? Maybe the self-centered hasn't really been much of an issue for you. Maybe you actually quite like your self-centered. So that's why you don't mind holding on to it. Well, I was going to say before, I'm loving the annoyance. I'm... I'm loving the... That I'm experiencing. I'm loving the... Whatever... I'm loving it. Because I'm thinking if this frame's not here, it's going to be fuck all the experience. So I'm loving this. I'm going to stay as long as I can. I recommend you do, too.
When you're dead, we'll embalm you and we'll put speakers behind you and we'll... We'll sit you up there. How would we do that? Sorry. You just said... You're kicking my guru. What can you say? You were just saying, what can you say? What can anyone say? What can anyone say? What can anyone say? What can anyone say? What can you say? What can anyone say? And then you're saying. Yeah. Well... That's all. That's the beauty of it. Yeah. I'm going to talk now. Go ahead. So you can all get stuck into me. I'm confounded because I have... I certainly have many times of no doubt that it's all nature, clear, open space, all of that stuff happens.
I have conversations and I just feel that the so-called person in front of me, that there's full connection and there's times that the mind quietens down. But I've said this before and there's a component of my life that has complexity built into it. And I find that there are times, like for example yesterday, and I was in a room and I just want to keep this really clear, and that I get confused because I do have times, like for example, when I said the other night, I'm sitting on the tram, first thing in the morning, and it's just obvious where ants, it's nature, what makes me tick is no different to what makes you tick, all that sort of thing.
I can have profound moments with my daughter, you know, where she just startles and I just feel like I'm a good person. looks at me um or you know and i just know that she knows and and we all know um but i suppose there must be i must there must be a belief there in in the self-center because like my my work life has all this bloody stress built into it and sometimes i can sometimes there's a management of that so i think it relates to what bill's speaking about and other times there isn't you know and and there's all this sort of thing is that like oh i have to hold on to this job because there's the fear that i won't get another job or you know they hand me a budget that's short and then i have to satisfy everybody and it falls short well then it falls back onto me and then i'm not going to get paid and all this sort of stuff huh i can see myself winding up as soon as i speak about it it's interesting isn't it so um and that seems to be the experience that that that there's this fluctuation you know and you know i suppose i'll just you know i'll keep coming i'm just putting it on the table you know how i have before you know take the limelight off you and um you know but i mean you know i can i'm sitting here and and and Like what makes me tick is no different to what makes anybody tick.
You know, there is that conviction sitting here. And there's times where it just seems very open, very... I'm very kind of just going with the flow and in the openness. I don't know. Well, there we go. Too bad. Go back to the ocean again, you know. Once you go down to the ocean, it might appear to be blue again. Yeah. What are you going to do about it? What am I going to do about it? I suppose I have to see through the... Obviously there isn't a seeing through of the appearance of things. There is the belief there. There must be. Otherwise, I... I mean, I really don't...
No one can solve this. You're really going to continue to believe in it when you know it's not blue? Mm. Well, maybe what Gilbert was saying about the posture, you know, that was a very good, if you want to call it a sort of a metaphor for an investigation, perhaps. You know, like, perhaps just the investigation hasn't been taken further. Well, all these things coming up about your work and that. It's really bloody stressful when I'm in the hot fire. Everybody is hitting on me because I have to... I'm responsible for everything far beyond what I'm paid for. So I'm going... I'm so stressful. But you see that?
Everybody is hitting on me. Poor me. So there you go. It's me that's hitting on you. There are me there. What can we hit on if you're not related to me? What I find really interesting is that in my life, that like, I will probably go for a walk this afternoon along the creek. And it may be beautiful. Often it is beautiful when I go for a walk along the creek. It just confounds me. I mean, I'm not going to go for a walk. I'm not going to go for a walk. I'm going to go for a walk. I'm going to go for a walk.
I'm going to go for a walk. I'm going to go for a walk. I'm going to go for a walk. I'm going to go for a walk. I'm going to go for a walk. I'm going to go for a walk along the creek. And it may be beautiful. Often it is beautiful when I go for a walk along the creek. It just confounds me why I can go from, like, that to like a kind of a... Well, appears the bobs are still going to function. They've always been. Yeah, we spoke about that. But I don't know how to manage it. All these times you felt responsible for these things.
Yeah. things. Have you got over it? Is it gone? I always know that it's going to pass and I tell myself constantly that and... Well let it pass. But the thing is, is that like, it's like, it seems to be a ridiculous way to live one's life and... Well wait a minute, it seems to be but if you keep bringing it up and keep believing it, it will be a riddle. But every time it comes up and you have a look at it, you're going to keep continuing along those lines. Every time you go down to the ocean you keep saying, is it blue? is it blue?
is it blue? Do you? No, of course they don't. Right, well, the same with, there are other things happening at work. You know, you look at that, instead of going on the same old crap, just know that it's going to pass, leave it as it is. I do a lot of that, you know, I mean, obviously... You do a lot more. I do a lot, I do a lot of that, I do a lot more. I do a lot more. I do a lot more. it from morning to night you know and that's okay i mean i can let it ride um but i feel confounded i feel you know i just you know and even sort of this stuff that's come up in my life you know i it just turned up there and i just picked it up and went with it and it's i think i was handed a lemon but anyway it's just it's been going on for months but anyway that's okay well it's not okay we've got to keep going well i don't know it's concerning it's my personal stuff but what i i will say yeah what's concerning here it's up to you to get out of it yeah okay that's enough i mean i just um um it'll it'll all it'll all sort itself out if there was a pen that chair and you're sitting on you're going to sit on it forever or you're going to be able to look and pull the pen out of the chair anyway of course i'm going to get out i'm going to pull it out my ass and what have you have a look at them and they can no longer believe in it where's it going to rest and the thought of you know all being responsible but they're still handling the job all right aren't you oh yeah yeah yeah but it's it's and you've got all these concepts and they're not new fresh and new it's taken over my whole you know i mean it i mean i've already i've resigned from two jobs so far this year the last couple of months you know because it just i don't know i don't have to well i mean my point is is that it's kind of you know i mean i suppose i'll just keep coming here and in my spare time you know reading non-duality you know and like there's there's there's enough kind of like you know i i understand what i don't understand but stuff is clearer that you know well there is no one to be enlightened there is no one to um um you know understand this stuff and take delivery of it and um and then all that sort of thing and there is the conviction that um life is just happening you know that you know but wow you know i'm just sitting back and letting it happen not that i can let it happen life is happening and it's like yeah i don't know it's just kind of full on at times and i mean i've said it here a number of times i just thought we would take the well i didn't think you know just the take the long life light off bill put it on me um you know out of compassion how are you handling it now we're putting it on you well no one's kind of like got stuck into me really and i'm really happy for you know that's why when i speak up i'm really it's an invitation for you i can parallel what you're saying it's like because i mean i don't you know what if you're not you're not you're not you're not you're not you're not you're not you're not you're not you're not you're not you're not you're not you're not you're not you're not you're not you think of me i can't help it you know so you may as well give me a love no just one sentence i've done what rachel's done here and i remember i've said jesus jesus this feels so real bob you know this selfie here you know go along with that you know give me all that crap but jesus this is real you know you just keep investigating there that's what yeah i suppose it's just the investigation will keep going it probably may not It's got nothing to do with me.
My guess is that it probably will go on because I can't go back and get the self-help book and build myself up into, you know... There doesn't seem to be the capacity to go back there. It's like, am I in purgatory? I mean, like... I don't know. No, I'm being silly. I'm being, you know... I just... You know, I mean, I believe... You know, I mean, I can only speak for myself. And there are people who come here who are very clear about this and, you know, and there are some people, perhaps like myself, who, you know, have definitely, definitely had very... You know, not that there's a mirror or centre, but definitely very clear...
You know, just being in that open space, you know. I mean, am I deluding myself? You know, I mean... Well, the answer to this, if anything, is does it work? But try these things and see if they work. A lot of people here can talk the talk. Come on here this field a few times, they can talk the talk. Very few walk the walk as well. Well, as I say, there is not the capacity here to go back to... Ah, well, that's... To build up, you know, like... Well, focus on that... Do the self-esteem thing and do the... Affirmations. It's not that I ever was really bad at affirmations.
No, just focus on that. You know, there's not the capacity to do that. Focus on that. You know very well you can't go back. Don't regurgitate on that. If you can't go back, you know, you can't continue to stand still. It only leaves you one way to go. Go ahead. And it will. And I think there's the inherent in all of that, you know, there is still that self-operating because there's the fear of... Yeah. Like, yeah, you know, like resigning to a job, this one stuffs up, that storyline, and then, you know, fear that I won't get employment, all that sort of thing. Yeah. So, yeah.
I mean, I woke up this morning and it was just really peaceful. And then all of a sudden the thought of it just came to my head and I just went... Well, there you go, you see. The blanket over my head and I went... You woke up this morning and it was peaceful. Then the chatter started. Yeah. Yeah. It was clear and lovely when you wake up. When you wake up in the morning, I know you grasp that little gap before the chatter comes in. It's really important. And then it will expand, it will go on. Yeah. Anyway, look, I, you know, just... It will take care of itself, like what everything...
In spite of this self-centre... Mask. That mask or, you know... Image. Yeah. Yeah. You know, I think that it's a good thing. I mean, I think that life has unwound in the way that it has. Well, you know that. And sometimes when you're standing there in that, just, and looking back, you go like, you know, not that it could have... It's in imagination, but wow, you know, I could have got to this point with absolutely... Not that there's any point without not worrying the world. Yeah, well, you know that. Not worrying the world. You know. Yeah, yeah. It's really just like... Believe it as it is.
No, it's sort of... Oh, shit. It's sort of carrying on. Shit. Cool. Stop. What's wrong? I'm driving. Okay. I've never heard anyone here say that, but yet it's so, you know, that, jeez, I could have gone here without a worry in the world, you know. Or, you know, or something, and you go like, you know, there was, you know, like... Whatever's going on though, Rachel, whatever the tensions and the stress and the stories that are going on, there's always an awareness there that's aware of all that stuff. And I constantly... That's your refuge. That's your refuge. That's what you are. Yes. Yeah. Okay. That's your default.
So whatever the shit's coming up... Yeah. There's always, you know, in order for that shit to be there, there's got to be the awareness there to be aware of it. Absolutely. Absolutely. You're the awareness, not the shit. Yeah. Not the mask. There's a saying that reportedly comes from the Buddha, and he says, events happen, deeds are done, there is no individual doer thereof. So, you know... Absolutely. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. There's no individual doer. There's no individual doer. Absolutely. Absolutely. It doesn't matter if you're a king or a queen or a beggar. Yep. There is no doer. You know, the King Canute went to...
They took him down to the ocean. He was gonna make the tide go out. He couldn't do it. And he was proving to his people that he didn't have this power that they thought he had. There is no doer. All events happen... All these things unfold and... Yes. Yes, and I don't... Because the belief in being a doer is the problem. Yes. Yes. Yes. I mean all I want is just to do my work, get paid and look after my daughter and just be with this. That's all I really want. But in doing that... That's all there was until you said but. Okay, alright, let's leave it.
But I'm going to take what Ram said, that you know, the refuge is that... Yeah, you know. Awareness. Awareness. Awareness. Awareness. And you're not, you know, there's no like when... Don't try and grasp your answer. Sure, no. And no separation, you know, period. Everything. Nothing. It's really being... With that... I don't... Well, it's finishing now. But the non-duality is that, yeah, you know, the... I suppose I just... Like reminders just kept coming up a lot more that no matter what your head tells you, that you might be separate or whatever, that that's an illusion. That there is no separation. Yeah. Well, just... And that is it.
Just don't say it. Question it and see. Make sure again. Look over it again. No. Just instead of saying that's an illusion, have a look and see that it really is an illusion. Well, I couldn't have a... There couldn't be any conversation if I was separate. There couldn't be any experience if I was separate because it's an interdependent... But there couldn't be a conversation if you weren't all one. Yeah, that's what I mean. Yeah, that's what I mean. Yeah. Like everything is interdependent. So there is no independence. There's absolutely no independence. Your mind tells you that you're independent. But there is... There's only interdependence. Maybe that's the wrong language.
I don't know. Now, keep in mind... Keep in mind what they used to call me here, Rachel. Butthead. What was that? They used to call me here Butthead because I always had so many butts, you know. Oh, well, at least you know the names that you get called. I mean, I would love to know the ones that I get called. Come on. Spit them out. Tell me. He's a no-smoker now, so he's getting the butts away. I understood what he meant when he said Butthead. Fantastic. Yeah. No, that's okay. It was kind of like... Yeah. I don't know. I just find it really weird that...
It's done. All right. Okay. There you go. Thank you. Thanks, Bob. Thanks. All right. Thanks, Bob. He didn't get what I said. I mean, you were asking him earlier on. That's the sunshine. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.