Group meeting — 2 August 2014

You're awkward. Who are they from? Danny and Shalila. You're a good wee woman. That's a cracker. Hello. Thought you weren't coming. Pardon? Thought you weren't coming. That's your location. It is? I haven't put anything in the mail to my dad. How's he going? I can't remember anything, aside from that. Do you remember anything? Yeah, at the moment, yeah. Phillip? Yeah. How old? He's five. He remembers the grandkids, but he doesn't remember their names. Okay. But, um... Their names? Dave? Mick? Bernie. Mike? Bill? Nelson. Melanie. Dan. Liz. Aldo. Mark. And you've all been here before, haven't you? Yeah. I don't know what it's all about. You don't want to spill, do you?

Same old stuff. How's everybody been going? Anybody having any enlightening events? Or... Recognitions or resonating? Insights? I can get you going, Bob. Yeah. Um... I was thinking today where the uncaused joy was coming from. And... And I think... No, I didn't think... And I realize it's got to do with... There is nothing else apart from this. You know? Every time I'm reminded of that during the day, it's always a nice... It's a nice feeling, you know? And it was pretty clear to me that throughout my life, just like the Christians and like the scientists, I'd seen... They see the world as starting a long, long time back again and being put in motion.

And I think that's what's happening. And I think that's what's happening. And then we're just sort of living it out some way. You know? But it's just that nice... You know, I've gone away from those beliefs. And... Because you're just... It's rather a numbing way, you know? That whole past all coming up. And just living out, you know, in the front of this time... Time thing. But in fact, as Alan Watts' book said years ago, this is it. You know? There's nothing... So, and that's very... There's a satisfying thing about that. And less anxiety of it, you know? And less anxiety of it, you know?

It's just... Yeah. So the moment there's a bit of discomfort, you know, you know that the thought's gone into something. And that sort of brings you back. And that sort of brings you back. But we miss the simplicity of it, don't we? But we miss the simplicity of it, don't we? What's the basic... What we talk about non-duality, one without a second. And the base, the point out of the base is silence, emptiness. Well, if there is actual stillness, silence, and emptiness, nothing going on to disturb it, isn't that a natural joy? Natural sense of well-being? Now, it's not something we've got to cultivate and look for, which we believe we've got to try and get.

It's there. Listen, what it's mainly covered over, a little obscured, is all the defects that come up. And we believe in the anger, the fear, the unhappiness, the resentment, the depression, all these things come up naturally because they're all related to this believed-in entity. This is that. We recognise that, that those things are the opposite to all they are of conceptual thought-up things, and the opposite, the mind vibrates in the opposite, the opposite of those is the qualities, the love, the compassion, the natural joy, the sense of well-being. They're the other side of the coin. But our focus has constantly been in the defects. So we're not noticing the qualities.

So we've had tastes and they always come to light at different times, you know, when there's not too much chatter going on. And the recognition that they're the base, as soon as you recognise or start to recognise through the defects, and see they're all brought about by relativity, relating to the separate entity, all problems are promised in relationship, and don't lock into them. What's going on? You know, every layer you obscure of those defects will let go of, isn't it? You feel later when you drop a lot of these things, you'll notice when you're very living, there's much light in this thing. And that lightness is there, the light, or the energy shines through with the qualities.

So we say it's an uncaused joy, a sense of well-being, you know. You don't have to try and cause one of them. It comes up spontaneously and naturally. And I'm surrounded by the intelligence of it all, you know. Intelligence wasn't something that started a long time ago, and now sort of, now we're just continuing it. It really is there. But also what you say about it, this one identity, you know, coming I do remember a few years ago saying, yeah, I've got this no centre here, you know. The trouble is I see centres everywhere, looking out at me through that head, you know. But really the seeing, not seeing entities around me, I mean, that is, that saves a lot of energy.

Yeah. Well you will see entities around you, you will see the appearances. But what are we talking about? Non-duality. One without a second, never move away from the base. So, and the Buddha says it's a cognising emptiness, an emptiness that's knowing or cognising. He's pointing out that emptiness is form. All these forms in this room, including new meat and everything else, and all the forms out there in the manifestation, are the emptiness, patterning, shaping and forming. Because he says that emptiness is form, he says the form can be nothing other than the emptiness. And when you look into it, it's not some great and wonderful or amazing statement, it's just plain, pure and simple recognition that it is.

All this manifestation is insubstantial, can't stand, it's got no self-nature, it can't stand on its own. And they tell you that in the scriptures too, where they say this manifestation is Maya. It's illusion. It appears to be what it is not. And as Masar Gaddafi said, don't pretend to be what you're not, and don't refuse to be what you are. We're pretending to be this entity, this person. The word persona comes from the mask. We've got this conceptual identity, this conceptual mask of identity on ourselves, and we're believing we are this person. And the opposite of that. He says don't pretend to be what you are not.

What we are not, what you actually are is no thing. You know, the base of basic intelligence energy, which is no pattern, no shape or form, though it appears to have patterns, it appears to be things, but it is no thing. Nobody wants to be no thing. So we've settled for this belief in it, and we keep reinforcing it and latching into it. And then, settle with it if you want to, but then we're not happy with it. We try to get beyond that. We try to get something other than that. And in that struggle, that resistance comes up because of, you know, not going away with anything.

Resistance is conflict. We're in conflict then. Conflict is disease. Disease is uneasiness. That is the fear, the anger, the resentment, the self pity. Instead of being as it is, it's not what we think it should be or how it should be, or we believe it's not, and so we constantly get into resistance with it. See, it's the results. All our problems, all our problems are problems of relationship. And all our problems are conceptual. Thought. And the only, and the people tell us that down through the age of like Shakespeare and a couple of hundred years ago, there's nothing here that's good or bad but thinking makes a sound out of it.

And so, I think it's probably accepting your own imagination. So which way are you imagining or anticipating or cognising, you know, putting the labels on. It's all this thinking that's causing the problem. Now you're not going to stop thinking. We can pause your thought for a moment but let's see, that won't be very long. When thinking is understood, it's not the problem. Because we see that what all thought is, is a vibrating pattern of energy. Just like the body is a vibrating pattern of energy. It's just the same as manifestation. There's vibrating patterns of energy forming these different patterns. So thought, when you look at it, can be very useful.

This room was an idea in somebody's mind once or twice. So it's very useful. When we put the boundaries on it, when we relate thought to disbelief in anything and say I'm not good enough, or I'm fearful, or I couldn't possibly do that, or I couldn't possibly do that, that's when it becomes self-destructive. Because it puts all these beliefs and all these conceptual troubles are going on with us. The fear, the anger, the self-pity, the resentment. What's wrong with right now if you don't think about it? You pause your thought and you pause the thought for in this moment right now, can you say it's good, bad, pleasant, painful?

And you realise you can't. You don't realise it's got to work out. You can't say anything, you can't say past or future, without a thought. If you're in it right now, have you stopped seeing? Have you stopped hearing? Has the tasting, touching, smelling, functioning still going on, but it's not being translated into a thought, a concept? Recognition that's going on and thought has stopped, what would that tell you? If there's any intelligence there at all, wouldn't that tell you that you are prior to the thought at that moment? You are beyond the mind because the mind has ceased for a moment. Even though it comes up a minute later.

And that's what a hearing is. You've got to go beyond the mind, a prior thought, and people try for years, struggle to cut out all the thought so they can be beyond the mind. It's no big deal. You realise it goes away quite naturally and effortlessly when you fall asleep at the night. Where does your mind go? Where does your thought go? There is no thought going on unless you start to dream and when you dream you create another manifestation in the dream. No thought going on when you're in deep sleep. But is that the end of you? It's not. You wake up in the morning and say, I slept well.

So see how we've got locked into this conceptualising and this believing we're separate entities and individuals and it's causing us all our problems. And then we, of course, in the meantime because of this thing going on, the ancients invented a thing called God. We can't do it. So if it's some higher power or greater power, then the thing called God. As soon as we invent the thing called God it can only function in the pairs of opposites. Like it says you've got a God and you've got a devil. As soon as you've got a God and a devil God lives in the heavens. As soon as you've got a heaven you've got a hell.

So you can see it's all conceptualised thought up being attributed to this God that's saying we have the power. But don't the ancients tell you it's omnipresent, total power. Total, total presence. Omnipotence. Total power. Omniscience. Total intelligence. Not three things, but three aspects of the one. And it is a totality. It is a totality and it has never been anything or could be anything other than the totality. Right here, right now, in this here medium, whether you're seeing it or not it is a totality. Non-duality. They point out that. When they point out non-duality the way they point it out, they're pointing out there can be actually no duality and non-duality.

So the dualistic appearance, again, as they pointed out, it's minor. It's illusory. So you've never ever been away from it. Never could be and never will be. Patterning, shaping, forming, as it's seeming to human entity, individual, a person, all the rest of it. But what is animating that pattern? What is animating that pattern you call you? Is it a conceptual image? Is it a thought that life isn't? Or is it something you can't put it all over, you can't rush, you can't give it any beginning, any end, but you can't stop it either. And you look at the time, is there a time when you can say you were not?

You don't remember your birth. And yet you were functioning until the reasoning started and you were enabled to conceptualise or think up what was going on. Before that the reasoning wasn't going on. But you still were. And what grew you? What animated and what grew you? If you weren't thinking, you know, we believe we've got to do this, when you were growing, when the sperm and the ovum were coming together and forming you, there was no thought, what was doing it? Why do we stay stuck in these beliefs that we, we're doing this and doing that, when a little bit of investigation you must say it's impossible.

Right? I believe there's no entity to do anything at all. Anyone think about taking that breath you just took? Will that beat at your heart? Does anyone think, oh they're going to beat my heart, carry on? Well stop. Doing that, focus into that and stop doing it, don't bother listening in, but just stop doing that. Can you stop doing it? Well as you can't, can you start doing it? Aren't those things spontaneous? But stop the thought for a moment. Pause the thought. In that pause, have you disappeared? Has that breathing stopped? Has that heartbeat stopped? See, recognise there's a cognising going on without translating into the operating one, there's a knowing.

A natural, effortless knowing. Mahavacca, the great Buddha says, I am that. How are that? This is that. Who is the that or what is the that they're referring to? Here again, you wouldn't have to be a rachael to work out, but that they're referring to must be what I am. Not this body, not this mind. But the thatness. And you realise that in our language refers to the base in which everything appears. That's the carpet, that's the chair, that's you, that's me. Take the labels, the words we've learnt, the concepts we haven't put on, take the labels off them and what's left basically is that.

And recognise there is only that if it's one without a second. There can't be anything other than that. That Mahavacca, the great word or the great mantra is already fulfilled. Don't it come to you? Don't you get anything to add to it or take away from it? It's naturally and spontaneously. Any doubts come up or any questions, don't forget to bring them out. Recognise that a doubt is just another thought. Thoughts coming up and saying but, what if, or why, or how, which thoughts do, see for yourself. Saying that any thought that comes up or any doubt that comes up is another thought. Any realisation that comes up is also a concept.

So when you say that, when you ask whether people have had I don't know the word that you use in realisations Insights. Insights. The insight needs to be dropped instantly as well, doesn't it? Exactly. There's nothing that you can do really. It's all happening naturally by itself. And if you believe that, I've got to add a bit to it to try and make a question. There's nothing to do with it. You've all already done that. Well, why couldn't it just wallow in the insight? I mean, how is that, like, say for instance you have an insight and you wanted to explore it. How would that be any different activity to, like you're sitting in the chair, okay, you can listen, feel, touch, smell and all that sort of stuff, but if you have an insight in the mind, what would be wrong with looking at it?

Nothing wrong with looking at it. You've got to see it. The same old crap. There's a falsehood in it. It's just another expression or appearance and whatever label you put on it making it seem to be something different, you've got to drop that label and see it's just another expression of that intelligence. Well, how do you determine that it's crap? How do you determine that it's crap? Well, you investigate and have a look. Well, then that's wallowing in the... Can the false stand up to investigation? When you investigate something, really look at it. Well, hang on. How do you determine it's false? I mean, if we're going to say that...

Well, you're right. How do you determine it's false? Who thinks it's real? Me! Well, I mean, hey... Right. And what do we point out here? That the me is a fiction. Now, if it's me that thinks it's real, how do I determine it's false? Well, don't relate it to the me. What am I going to relate it to then? Well, that's the how, if you want to how, but there's really no how. Well, I mean, you can... Alright. So, I think... You can discount any thought altogether. You can discount any thought altogether. I mean, if you're going to... I mean, you can get involved in activities like making a cup of tea.

There's not a hell of a lot of thought that needs to go into making a cup of tea. That's right. That's right. But, I mean, I suppose you can... Oh, okay. Well, it's just the making a cup of tea. But, again, you don't need a lot of thought. But if you embark on an activity that you haven't done before, and thoughts are going to come in, and I make suggestions... Pause it a moment. Yes, thoughts are going to come in. Is there a thinking process? No, okay, thoughts do come in. But there seems to be a discriminator. Yeah. So... Is there a discriminator that's discriminating?

Well, I'm not sure. I'm not sure. Well, that's what you've got to look and find out because that's where all the problems are. The belief that there is... Like, day and night come. Does nature discriminate that? Winter and summer come. Incoming tide comes in, incoming... Is there anybody discriminating that and saying this is so-and-so and that's so-and-so? Or is it just a spontaneous activity, a vibration? No, it's not. No, that's true. But I mean, in this particular case, other than... Which particular case? Well, the case where you're... You're doing an activity. Yeah. And this particular activity you've not done before. But, never say can't. So, you're going to do this particular activity thinking, all right, well, I'm going to do this.

And thoughts come in and say, well, look, do this. I'm doing it. Say that, yeah, go on. Well, that's a... Well, no, you're not going to say I'm doing it. I mean, because you're doing it. And then the mind... No, well, the mind... Okay, how about an example? Tiling. Putting tiles on a wheel. Right? I've had to do that. And I've not done it before. Okay, go onto YouTube, have a look at a few examples. All right, so you do this, that, and the other. Now, that's just information. Yeah. The actual. Right? So, the thoughts come in, oh, I'm putting too much glue on this.

Yeah. Right? So, that's the discrimination I'm talking about. Yeah, what would tell you that? The mind would. Your mind, can your mind tell you... Wouldn't it be innate intelligence, translate... See, all the mind does is... Vibrates and translates all these vibrations into words, sounds. Intelligence would say that's too much glue. So, you're saying that particular information is not coming from the mind. It's utilising the mind to express through it. But the mind... There's no thinker thinking a thought there. Never was, never will be, never will be. Thinking is happening. Can you find a thinker there, a separate entity that's a thinker? That thinks any thought?

Well, that particular statement, there's too much glue. Is that a knowing thing? Yeah. Well, you'd recognise there's too much glue, but it wouldn't tell you. But it's not until you kind of, kind of, hold a wand and start squeezing out the sides, that you go, okay, well I won't do that next time. But you don't. So you get feedback from your actions. Yeah. Show me the entity that's doing it. Oh, no, okay. Well, anyway, I've said it. Yeah, but so if these things get done, but they can't contribute to... Aldo, doing anything... No, but I think there's a sort of kind of... I'm trying to sort of point out the discriminating factor there, you know, like, you've just pushed it on the wall, you've squeezed all this glue out, and, um, and I think there's a discriminating factor saying don't do that again.

Yeah, well, don't squeeze all the glue out, what happens? It'll probably fall off. So, you know, intelligence, the next time you do it, you do something wrong. And you're saying it's the intelligence that's doing all this, rather than the mind. I think. This thing you call mind... Yes. Can you show me your mind? Mm-hmm. And the thought, I think, that's the thought that comes up, that's all a thinking mind is, is thinking. The thought, I think, comes up. Is there a thinker? There's one. That's an individual... Is that thought, I think, can that think? No, it can't. Well, you see, the mind can't do anything, you see, that's what I'm saying.

You need to investigate it. You see, the mind, what we call mind, has got no power, or any independent nature. It cannot stand on its own. And it couldn't be there if that intelligence that's patented, shaped, and formed in that body wasn't animating and expressing through that body. How many thoughts does a corpse have? That life essence is not there. How many thoughts can it express through that body without the life essence? No, no. None. You see? Without that life essence, you can't... You've got all the organs in the body, your eyes, your ears, your throat, your voice, your body, all those things are there.

But without that life essence expressing through them, it's a dead corpse, it's not worth anything. Yeah, but it doesn't seem to be that... Like, say for instance, I'm moving my hand. Like, the hand is moving, and I can say, of course the power's on, the hand's moving. Or that life essence. You remove that power, that hand won't move. But the power needs the hand. Well, I don't know whether it needs the hand, but I mean... That's right, otherwise... Hold your finger up. Say, I'll move my finger. Why didn't you? Because you didn't tell me to move it, you just told me to say it. You said it with your mind, why didn't you move it?

I'll move my finger, I'll move my finger, I'm not moving my finger. When I say I'm not going to move my finger and I'm moving it, I'm moving my hand. What's doing that? No, I don't think so. In other words, this mind we give so much power to, of itself, can't do anything at all. Well, they say that the mind has, you know, the ability to remember things. Memory is there, memory is there. In the mind itself. In the mind itself, that's it. All the mind is, is a vibrating pattern of energy, which we call mind. When you're thinking silently, you'll notice there's a sudden movement going on in the body.

When it comes out as words, like these, what are these words? The vibration we spoke of. Yeah, they're sound. And what's sound? A vibration. And they form into different patterns, shapes and forms, which has been acquired, picked up along the way, which we call words. But is the word the thing? The word we label, is it the thing? No, it can't be. So, we believe it. We give it this seeming power, and we think, it's not there. But it seems that you're functioning through the words. It seems as if you're functioning through the words. Like, you know, like, I'll get a cup of tea, so.

Like that sort of comes through the mind. Of course it seems like it is. And look, it's like it's a command. You know, I'll get a cup of tea, and the next thing you know the body hops up and makes a cup of tea. And you think the source of the activity is the words that are in the mind. I'm surprised you say that, because the words come along a lot after. You know, there's the realization that with before words, you know, I'll get a cup of tea, and then if we like, we'll put the words to it. As Bob says, the words is the translator.

And it's translating what you've already, you've just immediately, instantaneously, back to my cup of tea, you know, far quicker than the words, than the thoughts can come in. And if you want to... Yeah, but that feeling that you have, then gets translated into words, or it's just a feeling. I'll have a cup of tea. Like the feeling, I've got to go to the toilet. And then, then it gets translated, oh, you know, I've got things to do. And what about that feeling? How do you know that feeling is there? Which is directly attributed to the fact that the power's on. Right? So... That's right. And if the feeling is helping us translate it, relating it to a past memory, that's fear, or that's happiness, or that's sadness.

But you see it fresh in you, you know, as I've said for the first time, a totally different meaning. Thought, feeling, emotion, are one and the same thing, different aspects of the one thing. They're all based on that, what thoughts you like to call it, the light essence. The light essence is patterned, shaped, and formed. It's not particular to that pattern. That pattern, shape, and form are appearing in it. Nothing you can postulate could be outside of space. It's all the content of space. They call it space-like awareness. And then we get a concept when we start looking for awareness, we get a concept of what we think awareness is.

When we've got that concept, it becomes an object. An object. But is anybody in this room unaware right now? Without objectivising, well, that's a good word, that's a good word. That's a good word. You're knowing what these things are. You're knowing what these things are. There's an innate knowing, intelligence there. It's a matter of appreciating the fact that it's there. Yes. Who's going to appreciate it? Not really, but it's a matter of it. You made a few statements earlier on, don't go buying into the thoughts. And then, if I was to say, oh, is it a matter of not buying into the thoughts, then the statement would come in, well, who's going to do that?

Again, pointing out that there is no one that stands by it. Then your question is answered. If I say, don't buy into them. Yes. Which sounds like a directive. Yeah, it sounds like a directive, but who are we talking to? So you're right from the start, I'm not speaking to anybody. I'm not speaking to any mind. I'm surprised you've been nuts. A little bit. Well, yes, it does. You're getting 30 of them. No, no. I'm shaping up. Now we're really going to get it. No, that's right. Now I get the point. There's nothing that's listening or hearing. And that's what you've got to do. No entity.

Only you can get the bullet. Only the seeming entity there can investigate it and see what's going on. Maybe you're the guy who's trying to give it to you. No matter how many different ways it's explained or expressed, if there's not a bit of investigation goes on, a bit of questioning within yourself and seeing it for yourself, none of it's a bit of a good one. That's where I agree. The very first thing that Aldo says was something wallowing in your insight. And I would have gone wrong with that because I would call that the investigation where you just, wow, there's an identity being seen here.

And I've always just taken it for granted. But it's really just a construct, a useful construct for the nothing further back. And I'd be, that would be a lovely wallowing just checking it out. And I wouldn't be wanting to drop the insight, drop that. I didn't quite understand when Mick said to you, you drop that thought, you drop the insight and get on with everything. You follow me there, Paul? I'm sure it is. It doesn't really matter if there's, there'll be wallowing or not wallowing. There's no wallower. So it doesn't matter if the wallowing, the wallowing will happen or the wallowing won't happen. No, this is not a language class on how to speak it.

No, what I'm saying is that the wallowing, you're looking, you have to, There's a looking happening. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Or there's not a looking happening. I'm not giving you a language class. No, no, that's right. You're in the hot seat, mate. It's a bit warm. I would say to that, does there need to be a look up? There isn't. No, well this is it. There's only looking. But as soon as I put the ER on the end of it, I've got no trouble. Only if you fixate on it. No, okay. You can take it as a fixed position. The appearance of a looker is still going to come up.

So Liz, what you're saying, there's a, maybe there is a language class, but you're saying there's a, I was saying that we look at it, you know. Sometimes, sometimes we do. Sometimes there's a looking, sometimes there's no looking at it. Well if there's no looking at it, then nothing happens. Then what happens is what's always happened. Yeah. See, from totality, there's no one that's ever looked at anything. It's all the spontaneous emanation, the totality. Leave it as it is. That's what I was saying. All this diverse way. I'm saying this is where Mark's stick comes in handy. Ah! Kind of starting to get that a little bit, like without, yeah, not going to go into that conversation.

Insights come up, oh yeah, luck goes on, yes, I just felt that there's a certain, everything's okay, you know. And yet there's a, there's a natural discipline that arises, you know, and you're not, well, we don't talk about someone getting the understanding, you know, but I wouldn't be, I wouldn't want to give the message that, oh yeah, everything's okay when it's not, you know, don't keep investigating, it'll all be alright in the, in the wash up. Did you, yeah. Well, Bilbert said something really interesting in one of the tapes that you produced, is that he said, I don't know what it means to be seeking anymore.

Well, we'll look it back. Well, oh, yeah, sure. Who would the seeker be? Well, there can't be a seeker. No. You can't attribute to anyone. And that seeker, whatever a seeker you're going on, you know, we say it's space like a wing, assuming it's the content of space. You have a look at that. Is space ever trying to get anything? Does space say, I don't like this, it's a cloudy day today, I'd better change it. And the cloud says, well, the Earth's only spun halfway around, it's got to do this, or it's winter, or anything at all. It's the container of all of this manifestation.

Nothing you can approximate could be outside of space. And there's no entity out there, this is the thing in our natural awareness, there's no entity directing or doing anything. And it doesn't have to be. We've set this idea that there's a separate entity here, an individual, and everything is relative to that, and all the conflict comes up. It's a useful instrument, this idea there, individual. But you've got to realise, because it's a vibration, it's destructive. It's useful when it's functioning along one way, but it turns the other way and it becomes destructive, because it's a thought that tells me I'm not good enough. A thought that tells me this is angular, this is fear, because something doesn't fit the pattern.

I've got this conceptual image, what I think I'm doing. If something doesn't fit that pattern, I don't like it. There's resistance, constant resistance. Where's the resistance going on in nature? Day doesn't fight with night, silence doesn't fight with sound, movement doesn't fight with light. Each takes their turn. And as Anki tells us, everything is perfectly resolved in the unborn. You know, when you were functioning up to the age of about two, two and a half, when the reasoning started on you, before that, that mind was unborn, it was pure mind. It was not an awakening or a aware mind, you know, things like that. Pure, pure mind.

Well it was then, before the idea of a 7-0sie came in. But, I mean, then there comes a point where the mind gets educated. And there doesn't seem to be anything wrong with that. No. With the fact that it gets educated. You know, we wouldn't be sitting in this room if someone hadn't learnt how to use tools and time to do all the television, you know. There's nothing wrong with that. But it's when the person believes I did that, I invented that thing, or I made that, you know, without that life essence functioning through that particular pattern, utilising that pattern, making use of that pattern, they couldn't have lifted a finger, turned a screw, driven a nail, drawn a line, or done anything at all.

So still, not the entity that's doing anything, but the essence, it's patterned the entity just as long as it's patterning this manifestation. So there's nothing wrong with that because when you realise there's no entity doing it, you just leave it as it is. Settle down and relax into it and let it function. So, like, just now for me, for example, I had a thought coming up that there's no I, or there's no entity that can ever get this. Yes. Because it's seen through that any time that thought comes up that I'm getting, you know, I can understand this or whatever. But it's even that thought then it was being fixated upon but then it was realised that that was just a thought and so that dissolved.

Yeah, good. In the recognition of that, where does that leave you? I'm just saying, as always. You must already be that. There's no entity or anything that can get it and you haven't fallen apart or disappeared. You must already be that. So the search is over. Instead of people saying, oh, it's a blank, it's a void, you know, nothing, and think they take themselves to be a vacuum or a void, a nihilistic. Because you have thoughts like, I'll have thoughts that arise, or thoughts that arise like that. Yeah, again, before you go any further, who would have the thought? Again, exactly, that thought will arise but then it has to be said, I'm not saying that that's, oh, well, you know, nothing's worth anything and I should just...

If you recognise thoughts arise, spontaneously, naturally. Where from? Can you find a point inside you anywhere where they arise from? No. You can't. Look for a point you can't see. If you can't see it arising, and if you look for something and think they're here, where are you looking at that from? Look back, try and find it. There's no particular static point anywhere that thoughts come up, that's being expressed through this mouth or whatever throat or whatever. And that's like the story of... You know, the idea sometimes arises that, oh, I've just been lost in thought. And then the idea is, then there's another idea that pops up and says, oh, I shouldn't be lost in thought, that it's bad to be lost in thought.

But they're all just stories, really, aren't they? Like, there's a... There's a... It's not even being lost in thought. But, you know, the idea or concept of lost in thought, what would that be? It's a vibration, again, isn't it? Just a vibrating movement of energy just translated as I'm lost in thought. I would say that when you realise you've been lost in thought, you don't make a big deal about it. You don't beat yourself up about it. It implies time, doesn't it? For you to be... For there to be somebody that's lost in thought implies distance in time. There's a period preceding the period that you've realised that that thought's arisen.

That there's been a period that you've been lost in thought. But when you're lost in thought, you're like... It's kind of like being in a dream and believing that... that this is real and you're making a whole fantasy. So I would say with this kind of understanding that there's less time that you're lost in thought. Yeah. And there's less dreaming at night. Well, have a look at it. I'm lost in thought. Isn't it a thought? I'm lost in thought. Can a thought be lost in thought? No. Rest my case. I'm thinking that's a forgetting. Pardon? I'm thinking that's a forgetting. If you've just said previously, well, you know, you've realised that I've actually...

I've forgotten how you put it. But it was a suggestion that he doesn't need to look any further. That was it. And then okay. And when I heard it I thought, oh yeah, you're right. Um, but then that gets forgotten. It seems to have gotten forgotten. You know, like it's just... That's sort of a ritual, it is. What is remembered or forgotten cannot be you. Take that and recognise that and it comes and goes. Forgetting, remembering, forgetting. It's not what you actually are. Just expressions or patterns or appearances on that or in that. You can't say on or in that. The pure essence is pure.

Like all this manifestation is pure. Appearing in that same essence. So that which is always here doesn't begin or end. So in that moment that you're lost in thought, it's still present. It can't not be there. So that's what I'm saying. For me, that has to be the lost in thought thing has to be a story. Doesn't it? Like how can you be, if you are already that, how can you be less than that if you're apparently lost in thought? Who would want to know? Who would care? You wouldn't go looking into all these things trying to find the answer in the mind which we continually do.

But that's right. It's all that. A big stack of a big encyclopaedia. Those are all these things. I'm bloody working out. Just working out. Just work through it. You see that there's no I in everyone. Peace and calm. Horizons. I don't know whether that peace and calm is reasonable. How can it be anything but spontaneous? How can this be anything but spontaneous? How can anything be not what it is right here, right now? How can it not be that? How could it possibly not be that? So it can only be spontaneous. Just like a thought. We can talk about the looker and the looking and the listener and the listening and the seer and just all spontaneous.

And then we start pulling it apart. We get this big bag full of concepts. And you'll never get it with the mind. Although for a while I did take solace and peace in having a whole bag of concepts. Because I thought, yeah, I can yeah, that's all right. But they're all mental constructs. So you can't really look at this with the mind and get the answer that you might be looking for. Because you're just going to get more concepts. More and more concepts. And again, it just points to spontaneity. There's just spontaneity. That's all. And that's like direct experience. That's not faith or belief or imagination or mood making.

That's direct knowledge or direct experience. If you maybe approach this a little bit from an intuitive or a feeling or a direct experience angle, then we'd see everything as vibration. Even that thought that arises in the center of the head that thinks it's a me. Everything's a vibration. Everything's a vibration. Perception is looking is thinking emoting. It's all vibrations. So if you just break it down to vibration, like Bob often does, what's a thought? It's just vibration. And you go to that little point in the middle of your head, which I think is me, then what is looking at that vibration? Sometimes that vibration springs up and says here I am.

It's Bill. Or it might be having an emotion or a desire or constructing an idea. But essentially it's all vibration. You can't find what's looking at that vibration is no thing. There is no thing. It doesn't have any properties. It doesn't have any dimensions. It doesn't have any qualities. Like Bob says, it's ever fresh. It's ever new. You can't summon it. You can't send it away. It's always there. But what is it? You can't deny it. And there's no you in that either. There's no you looking. No, no. There's no you. Any sense of you. Any thought of you. It's just another vibration. I don't get this.

It's just another vibration. I get it. It's just another vibration. What's looking? What is looking? Gilbert said the other day and I it doesn't matter but I was a bit mean. He said look at no thing is looking. No thing is seeing. No thing is seeing. No thing is seeing. I mean it's statement in itself. It needs a bit more you know, beef to it. But you know, that's the that's what it's all about. There's no thing seeing. There's no there's no, the I is a fandom. The ego. The reference point. You know, thinking that you're looking from, I don't know where you look from.

I think the Japanese look from their guts and we look from up here and but even they look from their guts. Look from, don't look from their guts. Very good. Bill, move on. Three cheers. Also said be aware of the awareness. Is there any is there any virtue in that? Can you ever be away from awareness? You cannot be aware of awareness. You are aware of it. I, yes. Yeah, I agree. Um, but that other aspect of it, being aware of the fact that you are is a different thing altogether. You can be unaware of your awareness. Yes. In deep sleep. You wake up in the morning and say I slept well.

How would you know? There must have been an awareness in your own awareness. Yes. It's all spontaneous. There's no time it's what we can say. It's an 80's time. So I didn't guess that last bit. I say spontaneity hasn't got any beginning. It hasn't got time for a beginning or an ending. It's only a sort of a thrival repulsation in the moment right now. Duration. Awareness is self aware. So like you don't have to do anything to be aware. You don't have to make it happen. It just naturally spontaneously happens. It's like the sun's shine. No, look I agree. You can't turn it on. So by saying that you have to be aware of your awareness, that kind of makes it has to be me who does something to be aware of the awareness.

It kind of makes it. No, no, okay. Alright. So is that statement defunct? Pardon? Is the statement defunct? Be aware of it. Because you're not the only person who said that. Well you're going to have to ask. Well I had asked him eight years ago. And he poo pooed it then. And then he makes a statement I don't know, a year ago that doesn't seem that seems to be the reverse of what he said eight years ago. So okay, eight years has passed. Give him another eight years. Okay. Well I'll be alive then. So have a look yourself. Come to your own conclusion. It's a statement.

Well if you like it, find out the reality of it. You can't get an explanation that resonates or resonates with you or recognises you. But it's a good statement in the sense that it does what you said. It creates a mist of a thought looking back at awareness. But it just points to that which is always aware. Anyway, I don't know. Is that it? It's like are you unaware or not? There is awareness. But to say, you know keep attention on your awareness can create a subject looking back at awareness. That's right. So you created a meditation and a meditator and something to meditate on.

And you've created duality. That's the trap in it. But it's all one. But that in a way almost can be useful in the sense that if you see that happening if that points to that. We try to grasp it with a concept and we fail. We can never be grasped with a concept. So we're bound to fail. As old Chen though tell you, the great perfection is non-conceptual awareness. That's awareness without a concept. So drop your concepts down. Become unaware if you drop your concepts. Whereas there's still that awareness there that you can't negate. But you can't grasp it either. You can't grasp it with a concept.

You can't negate it. Right Bill? It's culpable though. It's culpable. You can it is truly direct experience isn't it? It's not a belief or faith. It's like I think maybe he says Can I have that one then? Is that alright? You're a You're a vermicast. Yeah I wouldn't tell you anything. The statement being aware of your awareness it's maybe another way of putting that is recognize what you really are. Yeah. What you already are you always have been. Yeah I don't like the statement be aware of your awareness. Because to me it's just it confused me for a long time. I have to be aware.

I have to do something to be aware of my awareness. Yeah. I think you know if you're sort of in that dualistic entity kind of stuff and you hear that then you take it in a dualistic term. If you understand Yeah but aren't you talking to people who are still in dualism? Yeah. So I mean yeah there's nothing wrong with it. Okay in the play of this room at the moment. Nothing can matter. Huh? You see things. What are you seeing? Are you seeing people sitting here? By the way is that a better statement? Recognize that you're aware? Recognize your true being or what you really are.

Yeah I think it's it's better than The previous one. Yeah. But I mean any kind of description is just that and it's limited and prone to misinterpretation. Yeah but we need to do that don't we? Because this is a discussion. And all we've got is language. There. That's right. I think only to a point. The words are pointing to that no thing. And once that's recognized, once you have a glimpse of that, what you really are, you know where everything's appearing on Nothing else. Then we can just play with words but you know there's an understanding you can never leave that. And everything, all the discussions are still appearing on that.

Well here's the thing. I mean I'm pretty well much sure that everybody here has seen what Bob's talked about. What he's pointing to. Yeah? I would imagine. Well you are then. That's right. But you're kind of inviting us to discuss it though, I think. Whatever. But otherwise we'd be sitting here in silence and saying nothing. Well what do you come here for? You know? To hang around. Well to hear it don't you? Get your take on it. So that's why it comes out of this mouth. Oh, as it could be in the pub. Whether it's heard or not heard doesn't really make much difference. And some people aren't, don't they?

The American guy you went and spent months with in the early 2000s? James? Who wrote the book. I know he, I think he doesn't really go to groups anymore. If people ring him he talks about this but for some people, yeah, that's done. Who was that? James Brighthage. Ewan Barth went and stayed with him and his wife, yeah. And I just my understanding is that he doesn't run groups or attend groups now but, you know, if people ring him and particularly want to talk about this, who will? So yeah, so some people are at the group some aren't. Yeah. But you do get some good not discussion, you know, I mean you can get some you just get to see it a lot clearer, just listening to other people in the group, you know, without it becoming a language class, which, you know, which wasn't yours.

I thought you were coming from there but yeah. Sounded like criticism. Yeah, well yeah, and it didn't yeah. Sorry about that. But you know some people can come in here in the first you know, and I could tell you you've been here many times before with Bob, but early I remember when I first started coming, people could after one week say yes but who is that saying you know what I mean and it's all alright, you know. I think some of the people though who do that the most are people who've been coming on the island actually. Oh right, okay. I was just saying I think sometimes it's it can equally be people who come very very regularly who like to decide who's got it and who hasn't and let people know.

I think that goes on too. You know like, it's possible. In my early days people said well who's asking the question? Yeah. Still goes on sometimes. I think it's about intention isn't it? Yeah, yeah, and sometimes that can be a great wake up call, who's asking it. Yeah, that's a great little. Bob used to sit people in a chair and fire that at them and the intention was you know absolutely beautiful. Yes, yes. And it was very helpful I think. Yeah. It's not so much. It's a put down. Yeah. What'll it move a little bit closer? Oh no. You guys can hold hands. I'd love to come here one day and you should both sit up the front and hold hands.

That'll be the day you get it. Double the power. Yeah, you kind of started to look like Bob. Yeah, that Chilean said he thought I was the same age as Bob. Well, there was the glasses that break in the middle. I mean, looking to buy some actually. You mentioned you starting a breakaway group. But, just pretending that you're Bob. Just for the people that are not quite, you know, just trying to get the features. The potential is there. The energy of belief, Bob. That's a really quite a unique expression. But you were mentioning you are that. You are the no thing. It's as though it's as though the belief that you could be no thing sort of sneaks in slowly.

You know, it's a I'm not talking about, I'm trying not to talk about time here, but initially the concept, the belief in a separate person is a solid you know, it's just so solid that I realized after a few years I didn't even, you know, that I really didn't believe that I could be no thing. You know, the it really has to it's a come in you've got to let that new belief in sort of. That's not the way. Don't take it. Actuality? Yeah. Well, stop not believing. That's it. That's it. I mean, if you sort of annihilate all the other beliefs you've got no choice but to to see that this is all that's left.

So you don't have to create another belief. No, no, no. It's as though you're not but you know, a lot of what Bob says goes against all my lifelong beliefs, you know, scientific beliefs. You know, but against mine too. What's the, then what would you say is the greatest impediment to, and that kind of brings in like a, an idea that, a moment of getting it, or finally getting something or whatever, which I don't fully understand as being false yet. Because I do the inquiry often and I look at it and it's, you know, constantly see that every thought that arises is spontaneous. Yeah. See that over and over and over again, but there's still that stickiness.

What, what do you call it, Stephen? Um. Stickiness in the sense that maybe, maybe I used to be 10%, you know, realising that, okay, it's spontaneous. Now I'm maybe 20%, now I'm 30%, 40%, 50%. So there seems to be a, but is that an illusion in itself? Is that just, what, what is that? No, you know, you see something as false, look at it again, you know, it's definitely a false. You see it, next time you see it's false, and every time you see it's false, that recognition that it has no substance or anything, it must, must be strong, it must. You take time out of that equation.

Yeah. Right, and this is what I think you were just touching on. You take time out of that equation, which you have to if you believe that time is, what is it that creates that stickiness? And it, it's just so, awareness or apparentness, or apparent or wet, like the light bulb switching on has to be spontaneous, the same way that everything else is. And it's completely nothing to do with all this waffle and the thinking and the, you know, the constant, the drive that you've got to... The world will drop away, won't it? No time to it, no. It will all drop away. Okay. How can it be there, even if you're putting time into it?

And space. Volume and duration, if not knowing that at all, what is it? Yeah, so again, it just points to the, you know, and again, it's that thing that you hear from different teachers, that the eagerness or whatever, you've got to have that. But at the same time, it's, that is not what creates any of it. Because the search, again, the search is the thing that becomes the impediment, or you see the wheels turning or whatever, and you start seeing through that as an, as an illusion, you see that the search is arising spontaneously. But... What's the... That's the real question. What's the matter with it?

Huh? I say, what's the matter with it? The first raising spontaneously? The spontaneous functioning going on? Yeah. Because like sometimes I've, a girlfriend of mine, I'll talk to her about this and sometimes I start talking about it and I'm just like, nah. Just comes in? I don't want to talk about it. We're kind of like halfway finished something and then I'm just like, nah. Yeah, she gets upset with you. No, no. She can't, she realises as well, you know, and it's just like, I don't know, like I just don't, like it's almost like talking about this actually makes me feel a little bit sick sometimes.

You know, like I'm just like, bleh. It's very hard to name it. Yeah. It's very hard. Yeah. But it's like, and sometimes I'll listen to YouTube videos and I'm just, ah, fuck that, I can't, I can't, I can't even listen to another word of non-duality, it just makes me physically sick. You go through, it seems, well, this person seems to have, you know, they'll have periods where I want to listen to it all the time. Yeah. And then I'll just, just like yourself, I just can't listen to another word. And then, I don't know how long, but then the craving comes back and I want to listen to some more.

And I've got different favourites, you know, different people, and I've got different, as I said to you today, you know, like I've got favourite ones of yours that I like listening to, over and above others. But sometimes when you pick up the book, ah, it's just, it's just going in mentally, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, you know, it's just, nah, put it there. I find it seems to mean quite some more. But do you, do you notice that when you, when you get the, those so-called periods when you're not thinking about it, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, Well, when you are thinking about it, it's continually growing of itself.

You know, you can't really, once you get a taste of it, you can't really go back to the old way of thinking once you see it. . I like that tiger's mouth saying it. Yeah. . So it's spontaneous. I mean, just like your body grows from a egg and a sperm by itself naturally, so what's the naturally recognised there, your natural state, goes, grows by itself. You know? grows by itself and you realize it was always so. And have a look at that, you know, when did you begin? Did you create the sperm by a thought? Did you create the ovum by a thought? It would have nothing to do with it.

The urge to bring those two together was there naturally and spontaneously. The attraction to the album. But the actual you that you believe to be you, you're nothing without your beginning. You're told. I wasn't told to say about two, two and a half when the reasoning started. You formed the concept or idea. This is me, this is I. I was born. It comes with the learning of those words. And what you're told. You've never had, as a personal entity, you've never had anything to do with your growing. Your shaping and your forming. As you say, it's going on there right now. Isn't that food being digested?

Isn't it? Hair, fingernails growing, cells being replaced. So much going on. Breathing, heart beating, all these things are happening spontaneously, naturally. And we lose sight of that and we think, this little lie that comes about is so superior, it can do all these things. So it has some power, an independent nature of itself, some self-will, all these things. Concepts come up, the belief goes in, it's seemingly real. It's not. And because it's not so, we come unstuck. If it was so and you could run the show, why would you ever be miserable? Why would you be ever angry, fearful, unhappy, depressed? All these psychological problems come across.

You can't change it with a thought. Thought, feeling and emotion are one and the same thing, different aspects of the one. You can't separate them. And that's what we try to do. We separate the thoughts, work on our thoughts, separate the feelings, work on our feelings, and then work on the emotions. It's some psychological crap we learn. And it's like peeling the skin off an onion. You take one skin off, another one underneath, another one underneath. Constantly going on and on. And ask the simple question, what's wrong with right now? If I don't think about it, well you've got to try and see without the thought.

And you realise, you know, if you're not thinking any thought when it comes up, you pause the thought for a moment, and nothing happens. It's not the finish for you without that thought. It's not the end of you. It's still breathing, it's still heart, all these things are going on, but thinking has stopped for a moment. Native cultures must tell you that that base that is there when thought has stopped is more potent, has more power, and more in terms of the thought-up entity, me, that believed it was doing all this. And this thought-up entity couldn't be there without that base. And what are you going to do?

What are you going to be? Are you going to stay in the thought-up entity, or are you going to stay in the base? I am already that. I am this intelligence energy. The pattern, shapes and forms as this body, but not only as this body, the recognition is of the same intelligence energy that's fashioning, shaping and forming this cosmos. And you don't get the full voltage of energy coming through that pattern you call the body, you blow it apart and that's all it is. You wouldn't get the same power you get in a tsunami or something like that. And we put a bit of a transformer on it, like you saw it with me, right?

It puts the limitations and boundaries on it. It's still the same energy. I've never heard you say that before, Walt. That's a really interesting concept. I used to... Like it? Sure. It reminds me of this bloke who used to talk to this meditation group that I used to attend and he said that he was the big transmitter. He could take the 22,000 volts and I'm spinning it down for all you dudes so you can absorb it just slowly and whatever. In the book Presence Awareness he does mention the transformer. Well, he's right in a way. It wasn't him, as the editor's bringing it in, it was a thought I, the conceptual limiting, limiting, limiting image he put upon himself that's seemingly breaking it down.

I can't do it if I'm not good enough. I might have... I hope I'm not saying. I remember when I was kind of a 24-year-old and I heard this concept that, you know, you've got to stop thoughts and what you do, you turn out through the senses. And I did it for, I think, a period of half an hour, just constantly turning out. And I... You with me? You following what I'm saying? What did we say before that didn't quite catch you? I got given the concept that to not focus on a thought. And the way you do that is by turning out through the senses.

So you put your attention on your senses, feeling, smelling, hearing particularly, the rest of your attention in the hearing. And I did it for half an hour, sat at the head of the bed, and I got this Kundalini rush through my back, frightened the crap out of me. So much so that I never did it again. I sort of jumped from one end of the bed to the other. And I thought, well, I'd better not play with this. And the only reason I'm mentioning this is because you're talking about the transformer stuff. Yeah. You can take that concept if you like. But yeah... Well, I don't know.

I'm thinking, oh, yeah, I can identify with what you're saying. And what's Kundalini? I don't know. Well, they say it's... I don't know what it is. It's energy. Yes. It's energy. It's energy. It's energy. Well, it started at the base of the spine and it sort of went through the top of my head. My hair... What do they call that when your hair goes straight up? A rippling. A rippling, yeah. So I'm not holding a thought for too long. Hmm? Yeah, not... Yeah, I don't do it for too long. I don't do that anymore. I don't do it. I don't do that anymore. I don't do that anymore.

There's two really good YouTube videos which are worth hunting up. And one's very short. There's four people in it. The one's a cowboy, he's sitting in the front giving a lighter rave for about five minutes. I think I've seen this, yeah. And there's three guys listening. Yeah. But there's a really important lesson, I reckon. But this one and another one I want to tell you. So he gives his lighter rave and one person says, yeah, but... And he pulls out his six-shooter and pumps it out into the air, and it's actually a nice, light, light, light, soft sound. So you can hear it. Yeah, it's a nice, light, light, light sound.

Yeah. important lesson alright but this one another one I want to tell you so he gives you some wider ruffies and one person says yeah but he pulled it the other one the next one says I can't be shorty and you should seem to this is the third one you got any questions you should know what's wrong with right now you don't think about it I mean it's really it's really powerful it's a real simple pointer that's really powerful and the other one is where this woman goes to a psychologist and she she says I've got this concern that I'm going to be buried alive in the box can you help me he said yeah well I'll change five bucks an hour I don't take any change I can't give any change they can't give me five bucks and so I'll just give you a little bit of advice I mean we go out in the world and take and she said you can and implement it you can fix me that quick she said if he said yeah if you listen my advice he said I'll be able to fix you she said you'll be able to fix me from being buried and thinking about being buried alive in a box and I says yeah he said does anyone ever buried you alive in a box he said no he said well here is my advice it's just two words she said well I write it down she said no no you don't have to write it down it's pretty simple it's just two words and he says building constructs and concepts and have ideas and emoting and whatever but what's looking you know the real stickiness that you talk about what's what's looking yeah yeah that's a good one yeah it's the same as pause and authority stop it yeah yeah there seems to be hallmarks of sort of being in the present so you can hear the clock sometimes this is sort of if you're wearing glasses yeah if you're wearing glasses yeah awareness that seems to that seems to trigger it off for me you know if I'm aware of the fact that I'm wearing glasses seems to bring a happy feeling so sort of oh yeah but yeah open up the five senses yet you're hearing seeing ,touching, acercaing totally in well the question is do you do that intentionally or do you just allowed ditakadasana course what are they saying they utterly awake with the five senses wide open mission offering we sent our searches forlorn the thoughts only in the past or the future past the future but in the background there's a hearing seeing tasting touching sign they're happening and what's going on in them is pushed into the background because the focus is right with the thinking right now so be able to be awake with the five senses wide open and then it goes on to say be utterly open with unfixated awareness yes not just when you leave the thinking to go to go into the hearing on the scene but be unfixated on all of them so let them all to be spontaneously going on so you get a taste of what's going then you you are actually living there because when we're living in the head as we do today those senses are pushed into the background and there could be things going on in the hearing could be very valuable you go right into the tasting the touching smelling could be very useful they're pretty much not because the main things about yesterday or tomorrow we're thinking about well see this is the problem like i know how to do what you just said um but um i think it's what i was saying before that there needs to be a remembering to do that and then and then i think earlier you said you know um that which remembers and forgets is not easy well no well if the remembering comes up at the moment and then you're doing it you're no longer remembering No that's right.

But the memory... It's the same with the forgetting, you know. The old saying is forget to remember and remember to forget. Sorry. So it's saying in the past, forget to remember the past, you know. And remember to forget the different past. We can cancel each other but it leaves you with... Oh look, I've got a lot out of tonight anyway, so... It's yours. Yeah, thank you. So what you did when you were 24, that's kind of what Bob was saying to Leo, that the five senses wide open. That's right. I think... I did it with veracity at the time. And I think you don't do it that way.

Um... I think I've learned a lesson not to do it that way. I think... A less intense kind of approach. But then the energies will start moving around and, you know, that's fine. I mean, the energy, Shakti is what makes us breathe. Well I think I mentioned earlier on, it's sort of from time to time it will come up of its own accord. And then you've turned out. You... You're aware of the fact that you're sitting in the chair, you're aware of the sensations on the skin, the clock starts ticking, all those sort of things. You're resting in the listening, which is a natural occurrence.

And then... The opening up of those five senses, isn't it? That's right. And it'll happen. It can happen naturally, without having to remember. And there are other times where you think, oh, wait a minute, um, what about this? But I think, yeah, yeah. I don't know whether it needs to be a 24-7 thing, though. Well, as you say, there'll be times when you won't be able to stand it. Yeah. Because, you know, you don't want to do it, really don't want anything. Well let that be. You don't have to force yourself to do it because we contrived. Just let it go, let it come up of its own spontaneously, and that's your wish, it will do it.

And it will come up, you know, with clearer insight than how you were trying to contrive it, you know. Sometimes... It grows out of itself, really, naturally. Sometimes the moment sort of, you know, there's things that are happening in the moment that it actually, you know, the mind will come in and say, well, hang on, you know, given the circumstances that are happening now, I need for this to be like that. Yeah. You know, I need to pay attention to what's going on right now because it's crucial. Yeah. Could be driving a car. And is that you thinking that? No, it'll happen. There you go.

It'll happen, sort of. There it is, you see, it's the innate intelligence... And there's a preference... Utilising the thinking to... Yeah. ...expressively. So thinking's not the enemy now. As if you believe there's an entity there, thinking can be very, very useful. Okay, thank you. Thanks, Bob. Good night. Thank you. Thanks, Bob.